So they were CHEATING

[birdawg]

So today we hear that the PATRIOTS were cheating so sad that they would go to this level to win.

[DonH57]

LOL. Those texts between them two were pretty funny. I would think Ted Wells is not hinging his report solely on that text exchange. It had about the same content as what I read on TOTV every day. So. The equipment managers will get a wrist slap.

[Bosoxfan]

So today we hear that the PATRIOTS were cheating so sad that they would go to this level to win.

I find the whole thing to be a witch hunt.More probable then not . Really. ? 103 days to come up with" more probable then not" . Give me a break. Haters are always going to be haters.No proof here. Get over it!

[Polar Bear]

...More probable than not. Really...
Yeah. Really incriminating. And I'm not a Pats fan (or hater). But come on.

[villagerjack]

I find the whole thing to be a witch hunt.More probable then not . Really. ? 103 days to come up with" more probable then not" . Give me a break. Haters are always going to be haters.No proof here. Get over it!

No evidence? How about deflated balls that were not deflated by the officials?

[Bosoxfan]

No evidence? How about deflated balls that were not deflated by the officials?

No doubt deflated ....big doubt about how it happened . Every thing thus far is speculation. More probable then not.....what's that?

[Bosoxfan]

Hope the Commissioner is happy with his league's hatchet job on the most successful quarterback to ever play the game.Roger Goodell's league spent four months and a seemingness endless stream of legal resources on the "independent" Ted Wells report to kill the Patriots and*Tom Brady*over something they could never really prove.In the end, what they found was enough evidence to be suspicious of the Patriots quarterback and equipment personnel inside*Gillette Stadium. They did not find anything more than that.If you spent five months turning over pebbles but couldn't move stones, that's on you. If you wanted to bring down*Tom Brady*and thought you had the ammo to do so, fine. It's a free country. And more to the point, as you said to old buddy Robert Kraft, it's your job to do so if you find probable cause.But if you fail, which this independent report clearly did by virtue of its CYA language, then you owe an apology to the Patriots and*Tom Brady. You shouldn't have dragged Brady's name through the mud without a smoking gun.As soon as news broke early Wednesday afternoon and the Wells Report was made public, one line jumped out at me like a neon flashing sign."Tom Brady*(the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."Exactly what does "at least generally aware" even mean?Either you have the goods on Brady or you don't. This is clearly an attempt by the NFL to say we think you did something wrong but we can't prove it. Still, we're the NFL so we can at least tarnish your image.This isn't the first time the NFL has come down on a legendary quarterback. For those of you who are history buffs, after winning*Super Bowl*III, Joe Namath opened a popular Upper East Side bar called "Bachelors III," which became associated with reputed criminals.To protect the league's reputation, NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle ordered Namath to divest himself of his interest in the bar. Namath refused, retiring from football during a teary news conference, but eventually agreed to divest his interest, and reported to the Jets.Tom Brady*won't be holding any tear-filled news conferences to announce he can't take it anymore. Neither will his dad.*Tom Brady*Sr. summed up, as well as anyone, the lunacy of the "at least generally aware" shot at his son."I don't have any doubt about my son's integrity - not one bit,"*Tom Brady*Sr. told USA Today Sports on Wednesday. "In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty. It just seems Tommy is now guilty until proven innocent."This thing is so convoluted. They say that possibly - possibly - he was aware of this," he added. "The reality is if you can't prove he did it, then he's innocent, and lay off him. That's the bottom line."They had to protect their asses, and that's what they're doing," Brady Sr. said. "I just read that four Colts balls were underinflated. Amazing. Amazing."They're saying he's possibly aware. How do you put a cloud over somebody like this?" he asked. "To impugn somebody without conclusive evidence saying this is more probable than not? The reality is they have scientific evidence. Now they're overriding the scientific evidence and badgering the Patriots. It's disgusting."Couldn't have said it better myself.Unfortunately for Brady, his father and the rest of us, the NFL doesn't care how disgusting they are, or look. They know that fans will still pay to watch star quarterbacks like Brady line their pockets while they assassinate his character at the same time. What a daily double.After five months and 243 pages of detailed documentation and investigation, we can now all get on with our lives. Except for*Tom Brady. Sure, he's going about his offseason workout. Yep, he'll be getting a fourth*Super Bowl*ring. No doubt, he has the perfect home life with great kids and the super model wife.But now, thanks to a vague, circumstantial report, his credibility has been permanently scarred. If you're going to go after a guy like Tom Brady, you have to have more in the end than "more probable than not" and "generally aware." A lot more."For the reasons described in this Report, and after a comprehensive investigation, we have concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that*New England Patriots*personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules.In particular, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee."Not good enough. If you discipline Brady, you're doing so on circumstance and circumspect evidence. You have one final chance to save face. Don't suspend him over a report that fell way short of proving he was directly involved.At least we all now know why the NFL wanted four months to release its report. They wanted to go hard after Tom Brady and prove that he cheated. They failed.he disgusting character assassination of Tom Brady patriots - The disgusting character assassination of Tom Brady - WEEI | Mike Petraglia (http://www.weei.com//sports/boston/football/patriots/mike-petraglia/2015/05/06/character-assassination-tom-brady)

[dbussone]

BoSoxFan - well said.

[redwitch]

Lets face it, the Pat fans are always going to defend Brady and this whole, silly mess. The Pat haters are going to use this report as another reason to add to their why I don't like the Pats list. Personally, I think the balls were deflated, that Brady was aware the balls were slightly below regulations and that it did in fact give the Pats a SLIGHT edge. So slight as to be meaningless. If I'm right, it wasn't done to win, it was done because this is the PSI Brady is most comfortable with. It is not an earth shattering violation. The Pats would have won regardless. The game will go on. The Pats will win and lose more games. The balls will not be under-inflated again. We'll continue watching our teams and rooting as we always have.

Now, let's talk baseball. This that season.

[DonH57]

Lets face it, the Pat fans are always going to defend Brady and this whole, silly mess. The Pat haters are going to use this report as another reason to add to their why I don't like the Pats list. Personally, I think the balls were deflated, that Brady was aware the balls were slightly below regulations and that it did in fact give the Pats a SLIGHT edge. So slight as to be meaningless. If I'm right, it wasn't done to win, it was done because this is the PSI Brady is most comfortable with. It is not an earth shattering violation. The Pats would have won regardless. The game will go on. The Pats will win and lose more games. The balls will not be under-inflated again. We'll continue watching our teams and rooting as we always have.

Now, let's talk baseball. This that season.

Yes baseball time. When the balls were slightly underinflated the Pats scored less points so it definately did not give them an edge. I about busted a gut reading the text messages between the equipment assistants because of the language and content. :a20:

[dbussone]

Here's a quote from the Boston Herald:
"But wait, buried on the 228th page was this nugget: "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

No wonder Patriots owner Robert Kraft said Wells' findings were "incomprehensible" in a statement that ripped the report."

[dewilson58]

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[Taltarzac725]

Lets face it, the Pat fans are always going to defend Brady and this whole, silly mess. The Pat haters are going to use this report as another reason to add to their why I don't like the Pats list. Personally, I think the balls were deflated, that Brady was aware the balls were slightly below regulations and that it did in fact give the Pats a SLIGHT edge. So slight as to be meaningless. If I'm right, it wasn't done to win, it was done because this is the PSI Brady is most comfortable with. It is not an earth shattering violation. The Pats would have won regardless. The game will go on. The Pats will win and lose more games. The balls will not be under-inflated again. We'll continue watching our teams and rooting as we always have.

Now, let's talk baseball. This that season.

Nice post as usual. Thanks for the reasonable approach you have to things in life.

[sharoni]

Everyone seems to forget, if these under inflated balls in the first half were so great, why did the a Patriots make most of their points in the second half? Just wondering...

[bagboy]

...

[Jayhawk]

Everyone seems to forget, if these under inflated balls in the first half were so great, why did the a Patriots make most of their points in the second half? Just wondering...

They didn't.

Actually they scored the same in both halves. 14 + 14 for 28 total. And all scores were PASS plays.

Just clarifying. Still don't think the balls were the difference. Seattle's pass play call at the end was the difference maker.

[villagerjack]

No doubt deflated ....big doubt about how it happened . Every thing thus far is speculation. More probable then not.....what's that?

What's that? Sounds like Brady and Bellichick to me

[villagerjack]

Las Vegas giving odds on Brady Suspension

[ajbrown]

They didn't.

Actually they scored the same in both halves. 14 + 14 for 28 total. And all scores were PASS plays.

Just clarifying. Still don't think the balls were the difference. Seattle's pass play call at the end was the difference maker.

Maybe you have the wrong game here for the subject at hand?

[Polar Bear]

Maybe you have the wrong game here for the subject at hand?

That's what I was thinking.

[PaPaLarry]

Here's a quote from the Boston Herald:
"But wait, buried on the 228th page was this nugget: "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

No wonder Patriots owner Robert Kraft said Wells' findings were "incomprehensible" in a statement that ripped the report."
Owner Kraft called the conclusion "incomprehensible" like you said, but also added, The Patriots would accept the findings and any subsequent discipline!!! (Like he knows something is coming) Evidence showed, McNally took the game balls into the bathroom adjacent to the field, before play started. Also, a text message : Remember to put a couple sweet pig skins ready for Tom to sign, one said!! It is what it is, and no matter what, if cheating is involved, there needs to be a punishment. It's not like players taking an enhancement drug etc, but still its cheating, and a violation occurred.

[rubicon]

The only noteworthy news emanating from the NFL is they have greed to waiver their tax-exempt status.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

They didn't.

Actually they scored the same in both halves. 14 + 14 for 28 total. And all scores were PASS plays.

Just clarifying. Still don't think the balls were the difference. Seattle's pass play call at the end was the difference maker.

Wrong game. The underinflated balls were found in the 45 -7 defeat of the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game. The Patriots scored 17 points in the first half and 28 points in the second half.

The Patriots got a lot of yardage and points from their running game.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I like a good joke as much as anyone, so I laughed when the NFL released its long-awaited decision on "Deflategate," because it's funny.

Have we waited since January to find out today that maybe the NFL knows what happened, and maybe it doesn't? But we should be satisfied because the NFL is "at least generally aware" of what went on, which is the same silly standard the league is pinning on Tom Brady.

There are many things that I'm "generally aware of" that I really don't know much about. For example, the weather, and computers.

So I think the NFL owed Tom Brady a higher standard; say "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "preponderance of the evidence" before it judges him guilty.

Instead, the NFL convicts the Patriot's quarterback by concluding "it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities..."

Well, that's just another way of the NFL saying, "we think he knew, but we can't prove it. And it's less probable that he wasn't aware."

Interestingly, the NFL trashed Tom Brady's reputation, but stopped short of painting the Patriots team and owner as "generally aware" of doing anything wrong.

Now, the NFL Commissioner says the league will see what steps to take next, including possible disciplinary action.

I think a fitting punishment would be to make everyone in NFL headquarters actually read the entire 243 page report, to see how uncertain it leaves us.

[PennBF]

There is a book out that many would be helped by reading. It is called "The Believing Brain" and it's subject deals with the mind first deciding what it wants to believe and then going about trying to justify that belief. Does it sound familiar with some of the strong opinions in these notes. It is few and far in between when someone first develops their facts and then establishes their beliefs. None of us know for sure what happened with the process of the ball but many have set up their belief and are now fighting to convince they know the facts which actually don't exist. This is traditional thinking. Life is fun isn't it.:jester:

[dbussone]

There is a book out that many would be helped by reading. It is called "The Believing Brain" and it's subject deals with the mind first deciding what it wants to believe and then going about trying to justify that belief. Does it sound familiar with some of the strong opinions in these notes. It is few and far in between when someone first develops their facts and then establishes their beliefs. None of us know for sure what happened with the process of the ball but many have set up their belief and are now fighting to convince they know the facts which actually don't exist. This is traditional thinking. Life is fun isn't it.:jester:

Neat. Thanks for sharing!

[DonH57]

I like a good joke as much as anyone, so I laughed when the NFL released its long-awaited decision on "Deflategate," because it's funny.

Have we waited since January to find out today that maybe the NFL knows what happened, and maybe it doesn't? But we should be satisfied because the NFL is "at least generally aware" of what went on, which is the same silly standard the league is pinning on Tom Brady.

There are many things that I'm "generally aware of" that I really don't know much about. For example, the weather, and computers.

So I think the NFL owed Tom Brady a higher standard; say "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "preponderance of the evidence" before it judges him guilty.

Instead, the NFL convicts the Patriot's quarterback by concluding "it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities..."

Well, that's just another way of the NFL saying, "we think he knew, but we can't prove it. And it's less probable that he wasn't aware."

Interestingly, the NFL trashed Tom Brady's reputation, but stopped short of painting the Patriots team and owner as "generally aware" of doing anything wrong.

Now, the NFL Commissioner says the league will see what steps to take next, including possible disciplinary action.

I think a fitting punishment would be to make everyone in NFL headquarters actually read the entire 243 page report, to see how uncertain it leaves us.

I read the text messages between the Pats equipment assistants presented in the Wells report. Due to the content and language I had such a good laugh this morning I had coffee go up my nose.:a20:

[chloemax]

just can't believe Tom would do this

[justjim]

Wrong game. The underinflated balls were found in the 45 -7 defeat of the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game. The Patriots scored 17 points in the first half and 28 points in the second half.

The Patriots got a lot of yardage and points from their running game.

Not a big Patriot fan but the facts speak for themselves--- they scored better after the balls were inflated than with the balls with "less" air. What does this say? This has to do about nothing IMHO. They just beat the colts like a drum! Get over it---move on. :pepper2:

[Bosoxfan]

This whole deflategate is ridiculous. NFL has a dog killer, a child molester, A wife beater, and a player that beat his own son with a stick. They're all playing. And everyone is talking about the air in some footballs? Think about it. How small minded can people get?

[janmcn]

Tom Brady never looked better than he did at his appearance at Salem State University tonight. He said he will address this controversy in the not too distant future. We love you, Tom.

[Bosoxfan]

haha this is what I saw...must look closer next time! N.F.L. Sentences Tom Brady to Year with Jets for Deflategate - The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/n-f-l-sentences-brady-to-a-year-with-the-jets)

[PaPaLarry]

Let's just be honest, and admit what is wrong here!!!! Has nothing to do with how many points scored, but that someone tried to deceive the system. You would not (I hope) teach your children to cheat????? Super Bowl rings will not change or will the scores, but discipline must be taken. I'm not a fan of Bonds, Alex Rodrigous, or McGuire because they all cheated, and they are being disciplined. Same thing goes for this. Honesty will always pay!!

[birdawg]

Let's just be honest, and admit what is wrong here!!!! Has nothing to do with how many points scored, but that someone tried to deceive the system. You would not (I hope) teach your children to cheat????? Super Bowl rings will not change or will the scores, but discipline must be taken. I'm not a fan of Bonds, Alex Rodrigous, or McGuire because they all cheated, and they are being disciplined. Same thing goes for this. Honesty will always pay!!

Nice post PaPa. Some folks just don't get it, When we see something wrong we are called haters or we are told" WHAT DIFFERANCE DOES IT MAKE" but it's good to see some of us still have values.

[janmcn]

It will be interesting to see what punishment the NFL sees fit for Tom Brady. Will they suspend him from the first game which pits the super bowl champs against the Pittsburgh steelers? This Thursday night opening game is always one of the biggest draws of the season. How many will watch some second or third string quarterback play? Is the NFL willing to hit themselves in the pocketbook?

[DonH57]

haha this is what I saw...must look closer next time! N.F.L. Sentences Tom Brady to Year with Jets for Deflategate - The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/n-f-l-sentences-brady-to-a-year-with-the-jets)

That is so great.:a20::a20::a20:

[TheVillageChicken]

Thanks to drug testing, I now have the exact same number of Tour de France wins as Lance Armstrong.

[PaPaLarry]

It will be interesting to see what punishment the NFL sees fit for Tom Brady. Will they suspend him from the first game which pits the super bowl champs against the Pittsburgh steelers? This Thursday night opening game is always one of the biggest draws of the season. How many will watch some second or third string quarterback play? Is the NFL willing to hit themselves in the pocketbook?
Still will be sold out!!!!! Pittsburg is a great draw. Situation will not affect the game

[DonH57]

Thanks to drug testing, I now have the exact same number of Tour de France wins as Lance Armstrong.

Good one.:clap2::1rotfl:

[Challenger]

Let's just be honest, and admit what is wrong here!!!! Has nothing to do with how many points scored, but that someone tried to deceive the system. You would not (I hope) teach your children to cheat????? Super Bowl rings will not change or will the scores, but discipline must be taken. I'm not a fan of Bonds, Alex Rodrigous, or McGuire because they all cheated, and they are being disciplined. Same thing goes for this. Honesty will always pay!!

My setiments exactly.

If it isn't importan,why does the league have a psi rule. To go behind officials after the balls have been approved for play is not only cheating ,but a serious breach of faith with the fans in Boston and nationwide.

Nice role model Tom. This kind of stuff plus the growing lists of Felons in the league does not bode well for the sport.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I just heard something very interesting from someone who works for the team.

In that game against the Jets, the ball guys inflated the balls to exactly 12.5 pounds. They gave them to the referee who proceeded to add air to the balls. They checked the balls and found that they were at 16 pounds. Brady was absolutely irate after the game that the refs didn't use a gauge. They simply felt them and said that they were too soft and then filled them up, again without using a gauge.

After that game, Brady told the ball guys to do whatever they needed to do to make sure that the balls were as soft as allowed. He asked them to make sure that the balls were at 12.5. so the ball guys got into the practice of checking the balls any time the referee added air to them and let some air out trying to make the balls exactly 12.5.

They missed their mark by a long way on one of the balls in the Indianapolis game. Ten of the balls were around 12.4 pounds and as we all know now, one was perfect. Brady didn't know exactly what was being done other than his guys were making sure that the balls weren't over inflated.

Nothing is going to be said about this and I believe that the only punishment is going to be a slap on the wrist on the ball handlers. The NFL does not want it to come out that a game was played with balls over inflated by, the referees, well above the legal limit. It wouldn't do to punish referees for causing a game to be played with illegal balls.

The Patriots are not going say anything because they don't want to make enemies of the guys that will be refereeing future games.

The investigators interviewed the referees but there was nothing about what types of gauges they used or whether the gauges had the proper logo on them. What people inside the team are saying is that the ref didn't use a gauge at all. They routinely just felt the balls and would add air to them depending on how they think they felt.

So the question is, were they cheating? Well, were the referees cheating when they inflated balls to 16 pounds? I don't believe so. I think that they were just lax at doing their job. Were the Patriots cheating? In my opinion they were simply trying to protect themselves from incompetent referees by doing what they could to get the balls as soft as possible within the legal limit.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Then there was this little nugget buried on page 228 of the report:

In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data is ultimately dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.

In other words, they have no evidence that shows there was any tampering, but they think they did it anyway.

No wonder Bob Kraft called this report a travesty.

After three months and untold dollars spent they couldn't come up with anything more than this. What a joke. It's obvious that they are covering up something.

[Bosoxfan]

Your Team Cheats - The Definitive Guide to NFL Cheating (http://yourteamcheats.com/)

Interesting site.You Team Cheats.....check it out!!!

[DonH57]

I really hope the NFL doesn't punish Tom Brady by making him play for the Jets for a year. That's really to severe!

[leej63]

I wonder if anyone questioned other league quarterbacks as to what they have done in the past, I suspect this rule has never been enforced in the past. Why now?

[DonH57]

I remember Aaron Rogers being one of the quarterbacks stating he adds air to the balls verses others who remove the air. It's been done for years by many. Each quarterback has their preferences. It's not old news

[redwitch]

I wonder if anyone questioned other league quarterbacks as to what they have done in the past, I suspect this rule has never been enforced in the past. Why now?

Obviously was some sort of an issue or the NFL wouldn't have implemented a PSI rule. As to why now, cause someone whi, er complained.

[Indy-Guy]

Brady's suspension is coming soon!

[DonH57]

Obviously was some sort of an issue or the NFL wouldn't have implemented a PSI rule. As to why now, cause someone whi, er complained.

That's basically what it comes down to. It's like some of the other rules that are selectively reinforced in one game and never again the remainder of the season. If you watch a lot of football you'll see it happening.

[DougB]

Obviously was some sort of an issue or the NFL wouldn't have implemented a PSI rule. As to why now, cause someone whi, er complained.

I heard it was the same guy with the Tamarind Groves complaints.

[dbussone]

Brady's suspension is coming soon!

Say it ain't so!

[kbace6]

So today we hear that the PATRIOTS were cheating so sad that they would go to this level to win.

All teams in every sport cheat. That's where game officials came from. It's just sad that it takes the NARCs of the NFL and its sore loser teams to turn on their own. Those teams (Indy & NYJ) that can't beat the Pats on the field try to take them down anyway they can after a whoopin'.

Blah blah blah...... Sore losers.

I hope the balls are so flat next year they have to throw them like a Frisbee.

[janmcn]

All teams in every sport cheat. That's where game officials came from. It's just sad that it takes the NARCs of the NFL and its sore loser teams to turn on their own. Those teams (Indy & NYJ) that can't beat the Pats on the field try to take them down anyway they can after a whoopin'.

Blah blah blah...... Sore losers.

I hope the balls are so flat next year they have to throw them like a Frisbee.


My sentiments exactly. Wasn't it the Harbagh brothers that started this? Their teams can't beat the Pats on the field, so they start crying foul about anything. Next it will be Tom Brady has special cleats on his sneakers.

Brady will come back next year more determined than ever and on his way to superbowls number five, six, seven. He thrives on adversity and doesn't sit around boo-hooing. And his footballs will be the most inspected in the history of the sport.

[TrudyM]

They didn't.

Actually they scored the same in both halves. 14 + 14 for 28 total. And all scores were PASS plays.

Just clarifying. Still don't think the balls were the difference. Seattle's pass play call at the end was the difference maker.

Face it our coach blew it with the final play and we lost. I don't know any 12th man who is making a fuss over the balls we are just disappointed with our coach. He did a dumb call and it cost us the game.

[villagerjack]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/myers-roger-goodell-suspend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881?utm_source=Daily+News+2014&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyNews_2014_From_201411172_693652&utm_content=239014853&utm_term=_693652_693666

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Face it our coach blew it with the final play and we lost. I don't know any 12th man who is making a fuss over the balls we are just disappointed with our coach. He did a dumb call and it cost us the game.

You're talking about the wrong game again. The game in which the ball was found to be under inflated was the AFC Championship game against the Colts. The balls in the Super Bowl were fine.

And I agree, your coach made a horrendous call after and incredibly lucky catch and then our guy made a great play. But in his defense, the Patriots were all set up to defend against a run. It was first down and he figured that if he tried a pass play, it would open up the defense for a run on the next two plays. He didn't count on an undrafted rookie to make a spectacular interception.

That being said, with the success they were having running the ball, I would have run it three times.

[Challenger]

All teams in every sport cheat. That's where game officials came from. It's just sad that it takes the NARCs of the NFL and its sore loser teams to turn on their own. Those teams (Indy & NYJ) that can't beat the Pats on the field try to take them down anyway they can after a whoopin'.

Blah blah blah...... Sore losers.

I hope the balls are so flat next year they have to throw them like a Frisbee.

"allteams in every sport cheat" I give thanks every day for these great Role Models. Is this what we teach our children? Because it has always been so, should we continue to tolerate, and laugh it off? b

[John_W]

My sentiments exactly. Wasn't it the Harbagh brothers that started this? Their teams can't beat the Pats on the field, so they start crying foul about anything. Next it will be Tom Brady has special cleats on his sneakers.


Jim Harbaugh in the NFC West, I don't remember the 49ers really playing the Pats in any big playoff or super bowl game. Besides, he's now the coach of a college team, Michigan.

His brother John Harbaugh, head coach of the Ravens, he's the one you must be referring to. However, it looks like you have missed out on some of the facts. Even though I saw everyone of these games, I looked up the info to make sure I didn't have selective memory. I think you'll find it's a good rivarly and is pretty even, especially considering the Pats usually have home field advantage.

1) In 2009 the Ravens beat the Pats in New England in a playoff game 33-14.

2) 2010 a regular season game, the Pats at home won 23-20 in a game that went to overtime.

3) 2011 playoff game, once again in New England, the final score Pats 23-20. It could of easily gone the other way when Ravens receiver Lee Evans dropped a sure touchdown in the endzone with only seconds left. Then with only time left for a field goal attempt, Billy Cundiff shanked a 32 yard field goal left that would of tied the score. Billy Cundiff now kicks for Cleveland.

4) 2012 regular season game played in Baltimore, the Ravens win 31-30. The Pats lead 30-21 in the 4th quarter. However in the 4th quarter Ravens receiver Torry Smith, whose brother had died just days earlier in a motorcycle accident, caught his second TD of the game and on the final play kicker Justin Tucker kicked a 27 yard field goal. Pats coach Bill Belichick charged onto the field to dispute the field goal and reached for a referee. He was fined $50,000 later that week.

5) 2013 playoff game against Pats, also played in New England, the Ravens win 28-13. It was the first time ever that Tom Brady lost a home game when leading at halftime. The Ravens would go on to beat the 49ers in Super Bowl XXXVII in a game played against his brother Jim Harbaugh. Maybe that's where you get the idea of a Harbaugh brother not beating the other coach. John Harbaugh had also beat his brother the year before on a Thanksgiving night game.

6) 2014 playoffs once again played in New England the Pat win 35-31. It was a game in which the Ravens had lead twice by 14 points. The Ravens with their final possession began marching down the field connecting on several short passes and with still a minute left in the game. Coordinator Gary Kubiak called for a deep pass into the endzone that was intercepted sealing the Pats victory. As the team prepares to go into the 2015 season, Torry Smith the intended receiver on the play and play caller Gary Kubiak are no longer with the Ravens.

The following week was the Pats playoff game against the Colts that involved the disputed footballs. The Pats would crush the Colts and go on to win the Super Bowl in a close game with the Seahawks.

[Bruiser1]

I like a good joke as much as anyone, so I laughed when the NFL released its long-awaited decision on "Deflategate," because it's funny.

Have we waited since January to find out today that maybe the NFL knows what happened, and maybe it doesn't? But we should be satisfied because the NFL is "at least generally aware" of what went on, which is the same silly standard the league is pinning on Tom Brady.

There are many things that I'm "generally aware of" that I really don't know much about. For example, the weather, and computers.

So I think the NFL owed Tom Brady a higher standard; say "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "preponderance of the evidence" before it judges him guilty.

Instead, the NFL convicts the Patriot's quarterback by concluding "it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities..."

Well, that's just another way of the NFL saying, "we think he knew, but we can't prove it. And it's less probable that he wasn't aware."

Interestingly, the NFL trashed Tom Brady's reputation, but stopped short of painting the Patriots team and owner as "generally aware" of doing anything wrong.

Now, the NFL Commissioner says the league will see what steps to take next, including possible disciplinary action.

I think a fitting punishment would be to make everyone in NFL headquarters actually read the entire 243 page report, to see how uncertain it leaves us.

So they got "creative" with the rules against a cupcake opponent. 45-7 thanks for showing up (lack of ) Luck.

There is no way (NO WAY!) the commissioner will discipline His Buddy the owner of the Patriots (beside that he would sue the NFL back to the stone age). And NO WAY Brady will miss a REGULAR SEASON GAME!

I WAS SHOCKED (SHOCKED!!!) THE REPORT CAME UP AFTER THE DRAFT!

[John_W]

So they got "creative" with the rules against a cupcake opponent. 45-7 thanks for showing up (lack of ) Luck.

There is no way (NO WAY!) the commissioner will discipline His Buddy the owner of the Patriots (beside that he would sue the NFL back to the stone age). And NO WAY Brady will miss a REGULAR SEASON GAME!

I WAS SHOCKED (SHOCKED!!!) THE REPORT CAME UP AFTER THE DRAFT!

I disagree on this completely. Were talking integrity of the game, the same kind of problem that keeps Pete Rose out of the Hall. This is not off field, and the Pats are not immune, see post above Belichick fined $50,000 for touching a ref. I think it will be a 1 to 3 game suspension for Brady, a Brady fine of $100,000 and a Pats middle round draft pick. My only regret is that Brady will miss the opener against the Steelers, my team's biggest rival.

[Jima64]

Refs handle the ball between every play and never noticed softer balls easier to grip? Will they be suspended too. How about the teams that pipe in fake fan noise too,loud and got caught. Or how long did the cleveland gm get suspended for cheating? Sports have such a big bucks businessmfunded by the networks so much that I don't even follw teams anymore. Coming from a lifelonh pats and niners fan.

[kbace6]

"allteams in every sport cheat" I give thanks every day for these great Role Models. Is this what we teach our children? Because it has always been so, should we continue to tolerate, and laugh it off? b

Professional athletes are NOT role models. If I ever caught anyone in my family teaching their children that a professional Athlete is a role model I'd take 'em our back and beat them with a wet sheleighlee.

[Polar Bear]

Professional athletes are NOT role models. If I ever caught anyone in my family teaching their children that a professional Athlete is a role model I'd take 'em our back and beat them with a wet sheleighlee.

I agree that professional athletes shouldn't automatically be considered role models. But I would hesitate to paint with such a broad brush. There are a few here and there that might be worthy.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Jim Harbaugh in the NFC West, I don't remember the 49ers really playing the Pats in any big playoff or super bowl game. Besides, he's now the coach of a college team, Michigan.

His brother John Harbaugh, head coach of the Ravens, he's the one you must be referring to. However, it looks like you have missed out on some of the facts. Even though I saw everyone of these games, I looked up the info to make sure I didn't have selective memory. I think you'll find it's a good rivarly and is pretty even, especially considering the Pats usually have home field advantage.

1) In 2009 the Ravens beat the Pats in New England in a playoff game 33-14.

2) 2010 a regular season game, the Pats at home won 23-20 in a game that went to overtime.

3) 2011 playoff game, once again in New England, the final score Pats 23-20. It could of easily gone the other way when Ravens receiver Lee Evans dropped a sure touchdown in the endzone with only seconds left. Then with only time left for a field goal attempt, Billy Cundiff shanked a 32 yard field goal left that would of tied the score. Billy Cundiff now kicks for Cleveland.

4) 2012 regular season game played in Baltimore, the Ravens win 31-30. The Pats lead 30-21 in the 4th quarter. However in the 4th quarter Ravens receiver Torry Smith, whose brother had died just days earlier in a motorcycle accident, caught his second TD of the game and on the final play kicker Justin Tucker kicked a 27 yard field goal. Pats coach Bill Belichick charged onto the field to dispute the field goal and reached for a referee. He was fined $50,000 later that week.

5) 2013 playoff game against Pats, also played in New England, the Ravens win 28-13. It was the first time ever that Tom Brady lost a home game when leading at halftime. The Ravens would go on to beat the 49ers in Super Bowl XXXVII in a game played against his brother Jim Harbaugh. Maybe that's where you get the idea of a Harbaugh brother not beating the other coach. John Harbaugh had also beat his brother the year before on a Thanksgiving night game.

6) 2014 playoffs once again played in New England the Pat win 35-31. It was a game in which the Ravens had lead twice by 14 points. The Ravens with their final possession began marching down the field connecting on several short passes and with still a minute left in the game. Coordinator Gary Kubiak called for a deep pass into the endzone that was intercepted sealing the Pats victory. As the team prepares to go into the 2015 season, Torry Smith the intended receiver on the play and play caller Gary Kubiak are no longer with the Ravens.

The following week was the Pats playoff game against the Colts that involved the disputed footballs. The Pats would crush the Colts and go on to win the Super Bowl in a close game with the Seahawks.

After the 2014 playoff game between the Patriots and Ravens, John Harbaugh called Colts coach, Chuck Pagnano, who he is very friendly with, and told him to watch out for soft balls in their upcoming game against the Patriots.

I don't believe that Jim Harbaugh was involved in any way.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

So they got "creative" with the rules against a cupcake opponent. 45-7 thanks for showing up (lack of ) Luck.

There is no way (NO WAY!) the commissioner will discipline His Buddy the owner of the Patriots (beside that he would sue the NFL back to the stone age). And NO WAY Brady will miss a REGULAR SEASON GAME!

I WAS SHOCKED (SHOCKED!!!) THE REPORT CAME UP AFTER THE DRAFT!

It's not even that they were getting creative with the rules. They were simply trying to defend themselves against incompetent or careless referees.

The Jets game was played with illegal balls that were inflated by the refs. why aren't the referees being punished for that one.

The Patriots are between a rock and a hard place. If they come out with what really happened, they face the wrath of the referees for the entire season and who knows for how long after that.

[John_W]

After the 2014 playoff game between the Patriots and Ravens, John Harbaugh called Colts coach, Chuck Pagnano, who he is very friendly with, and told him to watch out for soft balls in their upcoming game against the Patriots.

I don't believe that Jim Harbaugh was involved in any way.

My long post was a reply to another poster who apparently didn't know the difference between John and Jim Harbaugh and lacked a thorough knowledge of the Ravens and Patriots recent game history.

In reply to your response, much like the George Brett pine tar incident in 1983, the Yankees didn't complain about Brett's bat until after he hit a 2 run homer. Why say something before hand, he just gets a new bat. This way his 2 run homer doesn't count and he's called out on top of that.

Your correct Chuck Pagano and Harbaugh are good friends, Pagano was hired to the initial Ravens coaching staff of John Harbaugh when took over in 2008 after he replaced Brian Billick. Pagano was promoted to defensive coordinator in 2011. In 2012 after he had made great improvements in the Ravens D, he got the head coaching job at Indy. John Harbaugh like many coaches are happy when their assistants move on to higher jobs, even when competing against each other. Much the same as with Bill Belichick and his rehiring of Josh McDaniels after he had left to become a head coach of the Denver Broncos, they remained friends.

However, I haven't found anything about a tip off to the Colts, but as we know, friends do talk. I guess the Colts were going to use it as their Ace in the Hole, or their pine tar bat. It wasn't until after Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted a Brady pass, he noticed the ball felt soft. At halftime the refs checked the balls, and found all but one was under inflated. However, unlike the Yankees and George Brett, fixing the balls hurt them more than helped them.

The only info I can find on the tip off is this news report dated Jan 21, 2015.

Amid reports that a league investigation discovered 11 of 12 New England Patriots footballs were underinflated in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts, another report surfaced that Ravens believed the kicking balls were also underinflated in their matchup against the Patriots in the divisional round.

Underinflating footballs are against league rules; they can create a competitive advantage.

There was a difference between the two games, however.

Against the Colts, the underinflated balls were used only by the Patriots on offense. It is believed that deflating a ball makes it softer and easier to throw and catch. The home team is in charge of these balls, and the Colts complained about one during the game after linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted quarterback Tom Brady.

Against the Ravens, the alleged underinflated balls were used by both the Patriots and Ravens’ kicking teams. The league is in charge of the kicking balls, and the Ravens did not make a complaint during the game.

Harbaugh was asked whether he or his players noticed underinflated balls.

“It’s really not something that is in the forefront of our mind, I can tell you,” Harbaugh said Wednesday. “I know the NFL is doing an investigation and they called some of our people about it. Our guys answered – as far as I know, I don’t know exactly what the conversations were – they answered honestly.”

Harbaugh said nobody on his team noticed anything with the Patriots’ offensive balls because they never had a chance to handle those. He said they did notice softer kicking balls, but at the time, they simply attributed it to cold weather.

“As far as the kicking balls, you know it was 20 degrees out, so the balls were softer, our guys told us during the game. I just chalked that up to the fact that it was cold,” Harbaugh said. “Both teams were kicking the same kicking ball. I didn’t really think anything of it during the game. Other than that, it’s not something that I really gave any thought to at all.”

Now that the league has discovered the 11 offensive underinflated balls from the AFC championship, does that make Harbaugh wonder if something more happened in past matchups?

“I’d really rather not [get into that],” Harbaugh said. “As far as the past, I don’t really want to get into all of that. I don’t have any comment on that.”

Kicker Justin Tucker also tweeted about the topic Wednesday afternoon:

"I haven't talked to a single person [with] NFL, NFL Security, or media about under-inflated footballs or anything of the sort. Just to be clear, anyone saying that I made any comments one way or the other regarding our experiences in [New England] is simply mistaken."


We can know this, that equipment managers are not going to take it upon themselves to mess with game equipment unless asked by the player involved, especially when it involves a future hall of fame QB. I and anyone else who thinks logically can assume that Tom Brady requested to have the balls used by his offense deflated to a lesser pressure, obviously something he preferred. Having narrowly escaping a playoff loss at home to the Ravens, Brady certainly wanted every advantage he could get against the high flying Colts who had just defeated Manning and the Broncos the week before in Denver. Fortunately for him, the Colts were not the match the Ravens were and he didn't need the added boost.

[ajbrown]

As a Patriots fan, I have been so disappointed by the story from the moment I heard it. I first heard the story as I was shaking off the cobwebs and glow :beer3: from the great Performance they had in the game against the Colts. I lost a lot of respect for some analysts and retired QBs seeing the way they reacted with even less facts than we have today. It has taken away some of the fun (for me) of being super bowl champions. Being labeled a cheater stinks. Having to celebrate in the closet stinks.

I have not read the entire report, I have tried to read the most negative articles towards Brady and the Patriots as I assume they would provide the most d*mning evidence from the report.

I do not see such evidence. I cannot see how Wells gets to ‘more probably than not’ w.r.t. Brady. Based on what the report has, there is quite a leap based on nonexistent facts. The commissioner is in a very difficult spot. Do you suspend someone because you think they might have done something? Do you do nothing and p*ss off a large audience who wants someones head to roll?

Do I believe Brady was very clear he does not like a ball inflated too much? Of course.

Do I believe he knew that 12.5 PSI was the low limit and told the staff to get it to 11 after the refs left? I do not, I sure hope not.

Are my opinions because I am a lifelong NE Patriots fan? I think not, but how can I be sure. I believe that I would have the same response no matter the QB, but who knows… read the same report and put in your team's names and QB. Does it still read as a 'd*mning' report?

PS. John_W: No matter the record of the Ravens they scare the heck out of me in the payoffs. They seem to match up very well against the Pats.

[tomjbud]

The sport of football is rotten to the core - I just wish I didn't like it so much.

[DonH57]

As a Patriots fan, I have been so disappointed by the story from the moment I heard it. I first heard the story as I was shaking off the cobwebs and glow :beer3: from the great Performance they had in the game against the Colts. I lost a lot of respect for some analysts and retired QBs seeing the way they reacted with even less facts than we have today. It has taken away some of the fun (for me) of being super bowl champions. Being labeled a cheater stinks. Having to celebrate in the closet stinks.

I have not read the entire report, I have tried to read the most negative articles towards Brady and the Patriots as I assume they would provide the most d*mning evidence from the report.

I do not see such evidence. I cannot see how Wells gets to ‘more probably than not’ w.r.t. Brady. Based on what the report has, there is quite a leap based on nonexistent facts. The commissioner is in a very difficult spot. Do you suspend someone because you think they might have done something? Do you do nothing and p*ss off a large audience who wants someones head to roll?

Do I believe Brady was very clear he does not like a ball inflated too much? Of course.

Do I believe he knew that 12.5 PSI was the low limit and told the staff to get it to 11 after the refs left? I do not, I sure hope not.

Are my opinions because I am a lifelong NE Patriots fan? I think not, but how can I be sure. I believe that I would have the same response no matter the QB, but who knows… read the same report and put in your team's names and QB. Does it still read as a 'd*mning' report?

PS. John_W: No matter the record of the Ravens they scare the heck out of me in the payoffs. They seem to match up very well against the Pats.

I only read part of the report because when I read the text messages between the patriots equipment assistants. It had no content of damning evidence. It was like reading notes passed between two giggling high school boys with many " how does Tom like his balls" cracks. I expected to read something concrete. I'm just amazed people think this is world ending evidence. To me it only proved the NFL can't even trust their referees to do their jobs. I agree a Patriots / Ravens game is always prove to be a good match up.:mornincoffee:

[2BNTV]

Roger Goodell, (NFL commissioner), always talks about "protecting the integrity of the shield". This speaks more of the culture of the Belechik, (Belicheat), regime in N.E. more than anything else.

Between Spygate and Deflategate, their legacy is tarnished. IMHO

Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB to play the game of terms of Super Bowls wins. Having these controversies only diminishes what has been accomplished.

Would they have won as many games as they did? I'll leave that to the so called experts.

There was no need to cheat as they are both great at what they do and arguably are the best combo in all of sports. Like baseball players who used PED's to get the extra advantage.

Again, this speaks more of the culture and the desire to win at all costs. It's ok to be a fierce competitor and to try everything to get youself ready, when you are to play your opponents, but this crosses the line. IMHO

I'd say a four game suspension for Tom Brady as Roger Goodell should get this one right and not bungle this issue, as he did with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson.

[jebartle]

Two pounds psi is equivalent to a "two step FART"....give me a break...Let's get on to REAL problems in this world!

[janmcn]

If this were any team other than the Patriots, it would be a big yawn, page eight news, but because they are the best and the brightest they must be cheating. Can you imagine if the Tampa Bay Bucs were accused of deflating their footballs? Their fans would fall on their faces laughing.

When the NFL starts punishing teams based on innuendo, and no hard proof like they had in the Ray Rice case, they are starting down a slippery slope.

If the air pressure in a football is an issue, the NFL needs to look at their own rules and how they are enforced. Referees need to have a uniform way of checking the pressure and lock up the balls after they are checked to avoid any potential tampering.

[ajbrown]

Roger Goodell, (NFL commissioner), always talks about "protecting the integrity of the shield". This speaks more of the culture of the Belechik, (Belicheat), regime in N.E. more than anything else.

Between Spygate and Deflategate, their legacy is tarnished. IMHO

Stuff snipped for brevity by Alan

I'd say a four game suspension for Tom Brady as Roger Goodell should get this one right and not bungle this issue, as he did with Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson.

Wow you pulled out all the right buzz words; Belicheat, Spygate and Deflategate :ohdear:. After that extremely biased intro, I still do not get how you can read articles on that report and pin anything on Brady, but anyway, maybe I am just a 'homer'.

No offense intended in any remarks I make, I just cannot see the common sense, unless there is another agenda... (Spygate and Belicheat as good examples to open the discussion ?). This is not aimed just at you, some of the highest paid sports writers start their articles the same way. Based on their writing I DOUBT they even know the details of spygate

I know I cannot change anyone's mind, so I will not try anymore. I needed to say something for myself, as I am tired of it all.

[NorskiCroat]

Tom Brady saying he did not know he was throwing deflated footballs is like a PGA pro saying he thought it was a Pro V1 not a Top Flite he used during his last round of golf.

[kbace6]

Tom Brady saying he did not know he was throwing deflated footballs is like a PGA pro saying he thought it was a Pro V1 not a Top Flite he used during his last round of golf.

Just to be clear. Tom Brady never uttered those words. You really shouldn't make stuff up..... Oh wait! This is TOTV, making stuff up as fact is in the user agreement.

My bad.

:1rotfl:

[NorskiCroat]

The point is: HE KNEW HE WAS BREAKING THE RULES. It doesn't matter if he ordered it or asked for it to be done for him. He knowingly broke the rules. That is the very definition of cheating. No need to make this up. It is a fact.

[kbace6]

The point is: HE KNEW HE WAS BREAKING THE RULES. It doesn't matter if he ordered it or asked for it to be done for him. He knowingly broke the rules. That is the very definition of cheating. No need to make this up. It is a fact.

You're making an awfully large assumption that he KNEW that how he likes the football to feel was beyond the allowable league specs for such a thing.

But if you feel that strongly about it what do you think the penalty should be? To date the only suspensions brought down on players to the best of my knowledge have been offences against society. ie. Actually breaking the law such as drug use or assault both off the field and in the case of Ndamukong Suh on the field.

Since they can't throw a flag at this point all that is left is the $25,000 fine that is in the rules. So if you are for a penalty for breaking the rules you must feel that going along with the rules that are set up is appropriate maybe?

I'm still not convinced of any proof being shown, but whatever, its not a court of law, just opinion and he and/or even the team can handle a $25,000 fine. Let's just pay it and move on from all the haters out there.

Agreed?

[John_W]

From ESPN News:

The NFL has suspended New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady four games for his role in deflating footballs for the AFC Championship Game, the league said in a statement Monday.

The Patriots will also lose a first-round pick in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017 and have been fined $1 million dollars.


I knew it wasn't going to be a slap on the wrist. Like I had posted earlier, this involves the integrity of the game. Horse racing and boxing had always had a tainted side, and there was no way the NFL could let that creep into the game. Especially with all the betting on NFL games, they really have to avoid any hint of shenanigans on the field. It's the same reason Pete Rose is not in the MLB Hall of Fame.

[Jayhawk]

You're making an awfully large assumption that he KNEW that how he likes the football to feel was beyond the allowable league specs for such a thing.

Tom just said he will spend the 4 game suspension searching high and low for the real deflators.

:pepper2:

[birdawg]

Lets hear It, " WHAT DIFFERANCE DOES IT MAKE" Well now we know Brady is a scumbag who finally got caught.

[PaPaLarry]

From ESPN News:

The NFL has suspended New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady four games for his role in deflating footballs for the AFC Championship Game, the league said in a statement Monday.

The Patriots will also lose a first-round pick in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017 and have been fined $1 million dollars.


I knew it wasn't going to be a slap on the wrist. Like I had posted earlier, this involves the integrity of the game. Horse racing and boxing had always had a tainted side, and there was no way the NFL could let that creep into the game. Especially with all the betting on NFL games, they really have to avoid any hint of shenanigans on the field. It's the same reason Pete Rose is not in the MLB Hall of Fame.
I agree! "Integrity" has to be. Brady would be smart to just admit it and move on. I myself, do not like to see cheating in any sport, and I would like to think, the players we look up to, would not cheat. It's bad enough we had it in baseball and steroids! Cheating does not pay!! PERIOD

[Bosoxfan]

Scumbag ...really? No the scumbags are Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson Ray Lewis. Even if Tom did what the NFL thinks he "probably" did how could it compare to killing someone, whipping a child, or
knocking his girlfriend out?

Integrity of the game has been tarnished.? Give me a break with Goodell running the show there hasn't been any integrity in a long time.Aaron Rogers has admitted to doctoring balls to his specs but no one seems to acknowledge this admittance of guilt. But probably is good enough in this instance.

Comparing what Tom "more probably did" to what Pete Rose did is laughable.

Haters are always going to hate.I just hope that if this suspension is upheld the Patriots go 3 & 1 .Then when Tom comes back he takes The Pats to Championship #5!!!

[Bosoxfan]

Lets hear It, " WHAT DIFFERANCE DOES IT MAKE" Well now we know Brady is a scumbag who finally got caught.

Pats haters .!! Jealously rears it's ugly head!!

[DonH57]

Pats haters .!! Jealously rears it's ugly head!!

Tell me about it. The only thing proven so far is Roger Goodell has long since lost control of his own troops. Nothing was proven in the Well's report Tom Brady directed or controlled any actions of the equipment staff. Barring any appeals if any one doubts Garrapollo won't be out to whip the ball I think they are due a surprise.:popcorn:

[John_W]

Scumbag ...really? No the scumbags are Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson Ray Lewis. Even if Tom did what the NFL thinks he "probably" did how could it compare to killing someone, whipping a child, or
knocking his girlfriend out?


Gee, such a short list, I guess you didn't have room to include Aaron Hernandez?

I can't defend Adrian Peterson or Ray Rice, but as far as Ray Lewis, there's a law in all 50 states that said a person has a right to defend themselves, you might of heard of it, it's called 'self defense'. If you had actually watched the Ray Lewis trial, broadcast live on Courtv, you would of learned that he and the other two men in his party was attacked by 5 men from Ohio. Those were the guys with the gun, the one that put 5 bullet holes in Ray's limo. It's all there for you to read on the internet, but like they say, never let a few facts get in the way of a good story, or reply.

As far as the Pats punishment. If in the beginning Tom has said, yes I like the ball a little less inflated and it's that wrong, then I must be guilty. He denied any knowledge, so they asked the equipment personnel and after reading their emails, they asked to see Tom's phone. Tom said no. Then they asked to just see a print out of the emails and his lawyer could bring them by. Tom said no. Then Robert Kraft said, when all of this is done and we're exeronated, I expect a full apology from the league. Then when Tom was visiting a college last week, he was asked his opinion of the report. He said, I haven't had time to read it all, but when I do, I'll make sure to let you know what I think.

This is just like every other event in history, the cover up is why the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and a total arrogant behavior from the top down is why New England is in this position. It's just that simple.

[birdawg]

Scumbag ...really? No the scumbags are Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson Ray Lewis. Even if Tom did what the NFL thinks he "probably" did how could it compare to killing someone, whipping a child, or
knocking his girlfriend out?

Integrity of the game has been tarnished.? Give me a break with Goodell running the show there hasn't been any integrity in a long time.Aaron Rogers has admitted to doctoring balls to his specs but no one seems to acknowledge this admittance of guilt. But probably is good enough in this instance.

Comparing what Tom "more probably did" to what Pete Rose did is laughable.

Haters are always going to hate.I just hope that if this suspension is upheld the Patriots go 3 & 1 .Then when Tom comes back he takes The Pats to Championship #5!!!

Tom should also make that list, after all he did dump his girlfriend that was eight months pregnant with his child for someone else!

[Greg Nelson]

Community Service..forget the small change

[Challenger]

Gee, such a short list, I guess you didn't have room to include Aaron Hernandez?

I can't defend Adrian Peterson or Ray Rice, but as far as Ray Lewis, there's a law in all 50 states that said a person has a right to defend themselves, you might of heard of it, it's called 'self defense'. If you had actually watched the Ray Lewis trial, broadcast live on Courtv, you would of learned that he and the other two men in his party was attacked by 5 men from Ohio. Those were the guys with the gun, the one that put 5 bullet holes in Ray's limo. It's all there for you to read on the internet, but like they say, never let a few facts get in the way of a good story, or reply.

As far as the Pats punishment. If in the beginning Tom has said, yes I like the ball a little less inflated and it's that wrong, then I must be guilty. He denied any knowledge, so they asked the equipment personnel and after reading their emails, they asked to see Tom's phone. Tom said no. Then they asked to just see a print out of the emails and his lawyer could bring them by. Tom said no. Then Robert Kraft said, when all of this is done and we're exeronated, I expect a full apology from the league. Then when Tom was visiting a college last week, he was asked his opinion of the report. He said, I haven't had time to read it all, but when I do, I'll make sure to let you know what I think.

This is just like every other event in history, the cover up is why the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and a total arrogant behavior from the top down is why New England is in this position. It's just that simple.

I hate people who respond with Facts!!!!!:rant-rave:

[2BNTV]

Wow you pulled out all the right buzz words; Belicheat, Spygate and Deflategate :ohdear:. After that extremely biased intro, I still do not get how you can read articles on that report and pin anything on Brady, but anyway, maybe I am just a 'homer'.

No offense intended in any remarks I make, I just cannot see the common sense, unless there is another agenda... (Spygate and Belicheat as good examples to open the discussion ?). This is not aimed just at you, some of the highest paid sports writers start their articles the same way. Based on their writing I DOUBT they even know the details of spygate

I know I cannot change anyone's mind, so I will not try anymore. I needed to say something for myself, as I am tired of it all.

Sorry AJ but I agree to disagree.

Tom Brady refusing to co-operate with the investigation speaks volumns to me. If he was so innocent as some people claim, then why the cover-up? The person who performed the deflating of the footballs calls himself, "the deflator.

Again, this speaks of the culture of the Belechick reign of control. Never a warm fuzzy kind of guy and I like when a team is successful, so it's not jealousy on my part. I think they are and still talented enough to win championships without resorting to less than stellar characteristics of "getting an edge over the competition". It should be an even playing field for everyone.

This happens in other venues of sports like the little league stocking ineligible players, to win at all costs. A sad commentary on the character of our culture.

Wellington Mara could have made the Giants a dominate team but chose to share the revenues of the NFL equally as he seemed to want a good product and create equal opportunity for all teams. The NFL has a great product because of the equal opportunity to obtain talents for their teams.

Tom Brady will appeal the suspension and probably get it reduced. The penalties of draft picks and fines seem severe to me and I'll bet Roger Goodell will be dropped from Robert Kraft's Christmas card list as Kraft was a big supporter of Goodell, when he mishandled other players punishment.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Sorry AJ but I agree to disagree.

Tom Brady refusing to co-operate with the investigation speaks volumns to me. If he was so innocent as some people claim, then why the cover-up? The person who performed the deflating of the footballs calls himself, "the deflator.

Again, this speaks of the culture of the Belechick reign of control. Never a warm fuzzy kind of guy and I like when a team is successful, so it's not jealousy on my part. I think they are and still talented enough to win championships without resorting to less than stellar characteristics of "getting an edge over the competition". It should be an even playing field for everyone.

This happens in other venues of sports like the little league stocking ineligible players, to win at all costs. A sad commentary on the character of our culture.

Wellington Mara could have made the Giants a dominate team but chose to share the revenues of the NFL equally as he seemed to want a good product and create equal opportunity for all teams. The NFL has a great product because of the equal opportunity to obtain talents for their teams.

Tom Brady will appeal the suspension and probably get it reduced. The penalties of draft picks and fines seem severe to me and I'll bet Roger Goodell will be dropped from Robert Kraft's Christmas card list as Kraft was a big supporter of Goodell, when he mishandled other players punishment.

Joe, the guy who was deflating the balls was doing it to try to get them back to 12.5 pounds after the referees added air bringing them up to over 13.5 pounds. The Jets game was played with balls that were at 16 pounds.

From what I'm hearing, some of these refs don't even use gauges. They just feel the balls and then add air.

After the Jets game, Brady told the ball guys to do whatever was necessary to get the balls back to 12.5 after the referee was done with them.

I think all of this will come out in the appeal unless the details are made public.
The Patriots organization is not going to say anything about this in public because the fear the wrath of the referees for next season and who knows how far beyond that. They are truly between a rock and a hard place.

There was nothing in the report about what kind of gauges were used. There is statement that says that they have absolutely no proof that any tampering of the balls was done.

Four games for possibly having general knowledge? Are they kidding? They give people less than that for intentional injury to another player or beating their wife.

Goodell is simply trying to save face. When this gets overturned, he can say that he tried.

[janmcn]

Sorry AJ but I agree to disagree.

Tom Brady refusing to co-operate with the investigation speaks volumns to me. If he was so innocent as some people claim, then why the cover-up? The person who performed the deflating of the footballs calls himself, "the deflator.

Again, this speaks of the culture of the Belechick reign of control. Never a warm fuzzy kind of guy and I like when a team is successful, so it's not jealousy on my part. I think they are and still talented enough to win championships without resorting to less than stellar characteristics of "getting an edge over the competition". It should be an even playing field for everyone.

This happens in other venues of sports like the little league stocking ineligible players, to win at all costs. A sad commentary on the character of our culture.

Wellington Mara could have made the Giants a dominate team but chose to share the revenues of the NFL equally as he seemed to want a good product and create equal opportunity for all teams. The NFL has a great product because of the equal opportunity to obtain talents for their teams.

Tom Brady will appeal the suspension and probably get it reduced. The penalties of draft picks and fines seem severe to me and I'll bet Roger Goodell will be dropped from Robert Kraft's Christmas card list as Kraft was a big supporter of Goodell, when he mishandled other players punishment.


Tom Brady refusing to cooperate? Based on what? This investigator does not have subpoena power, so he just wanted Brady to turn over his cell phone and text messages?

Brady is half of one of the highest profile couples in the country. How much would those emails and text messages fetch on the open market from the likes of the National Enquirer? Who would trust the NFL to protect their privacy in this day and age?

[Bosoxfan]

Patriots fans incensed with Tom Brady’s four-game suspension for his role in ‪#‎Deflategate‬ have taken to social media to express their disapproval, going so far as to suggest the Patriots not hang their banner for winning Super Bowl XLIX on Opening Night, but rather wait until No. 12’s first game back before raising it. Are you on board with ‪#‎NoBradyNoBanner‬

[DonH57]

Patriots fans incensed with Tom Brady’s four-game suspension for his role in ‪#‎Deflategate‬ have taken to social media to express their disapproval, going so far as to suggest the Patriots not hang their banner for winning Super Bowl XLIX on Opening Night, but rather wait until No. 12’s first game back before raising it. Are you on board with ‪#‎NoBradyNoBanner‬

I support that. Hang the banner only when the complete team is on the field. To do otherwise would reflect poor team spirit.

[John_W]

Tom Brady refusing to cooperate? Based on what? This investigator does not have subpoena power, so he just wanted Brady to turn over his cell phone and text messages?

Brady is half of one of the highest profile couples in the country. How much would those emails and text messages fetch on the open market from the likes of the National Enquirer? Who would trust the NFL to protect their privacy in this day and age?

From NBC Sports dated May 8, 2015:

Got incriminating info on your phone? Refuse to provide it. Know things that would tend to point toward guilt? Refuse to talk, or at least refuse to answer certain questions.

Some fans think that’s OK, spouting off principles that apply only in the context of criminal prosecutions. But the right to remain silent, the presumption of innocence, the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and all other Constitutional protections only matter when the outcome is prison or death.

For workplace investigations, the employer makes the rules. And when the employer expects cooperation, anything other than significant sanctions for failure to cooperate will invite others to refuse to cooperate.

During the various significant NFL investigations in recent years, cooperation has been consistent, and automatic. The Saints cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bounty case. The Ravens cooperated when the NFL was investigating the Ray Rice elevator video. The Dolphins cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bullying scandal — with the exception of trainer Kevin O’Neill, who expressed hostility to the investigation and later was fired.

Per multiple sources, Ravens employees automatically and without hesitation surrendered their cell phones for forensic examination that entailed a specific search for certain recipients and phrases. The procedure balanced the needs of the investigation with individual privacy rights.

Here, multiple individuals chose to extend their privacy rights so broadly that it interfered with their obligation to cooperate with their employer. Separate from whatever the Patriots did or didn’t do to the footballs, the failure to cooperate requires punishment, or others will do the same thing in the future.

[DonH57]

I guess I'm kind of lost on what would be of the NFL's interest on Tom's cell phone having to do with the investigation? Was it his personel or league issued? Doe's he use it during the games. Who would he be texting of interest? It wouldn't be the equipment managers as they are standing on the sidelines.

[Bosoxfan]

Gee, such a short list, I guess you didn't have room to include Aaron Hernandez?

I can't defend Adrian Peterson or Ray Rice, but as far as Ray Lewis, there's a law in all 50 states that said a person has a right to defend themselves, you might of heard of it, it's called 'self defense'. If you had actually watched the Ray Lewis trial, broadcast live on Courtv, you would of learned that he and the other two men in his party was attacked by 5 men from Ohio. Those were the guys with the gun, the one that put 5 bullet holes in Ray's limo. It's all there for you to read on the internet, but like they say, never let a few facts get in the way of a good story, or reply.

As far as the Pats punishment. If in the beginning Tom has said, yes I like the ball a little less inflated and it's that wrong, then I must be guilty. He denied any knowledge, so they asked the equipment personnel and after reading their emails, they asked to see Tom's phone. Tom said no. Then they asked to just see a print out of the emails and his lawyer could bring them by. Tom said no. Then Robert Kraft said, when all of this is done and we're exeronated, I expect a full apology from the league. Then when Tom was visiting a college last week, he was asked his opinion of the report. He said, I haven't had time to read it all, but when I do, I'll make sure to let you know what I think.

This is just like every other event in history, the cover up is why the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and a total arrogant behavior from the top down is why New England is in this position. It's just that simple.

Touchy when it comes to Ray Lewis? He killed someone and the only reason he got away with it was he's a thug and others refused to testify against him out of fear.!! I didn't bring up Aaron Hernandez because he got what he deserved unlike Lewis!!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

From NBC Sports dated May 8, 2015:

Got incriminating info on your phone? Refuse to provide it. Know things that would tend to point toward guilt? Refuse to talk, or at least refuse to answer certain questions.

Some fans think that’s OK, spouting off principles that apply only in the context of criminal prosecutions. But the right to remain silent, the presumption of innocence, the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and all other Constitutional protections only matter when the outcome is prison or death.

For workplace investigations, the employer makes the rules. And when the employer expects cooperation, anything other than significant sanctions for failure to cooperate will invite others to refuse to cooperate.

During the various significant NFL investigations in recent years, cooperation has been consistent, and automatic. The Saints cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bounty case. The Ravens cooperated when the NFL was investigating the Ray Rice elevator video. The Dolphins cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bullying scandal — with the exception of trainer Kevin O’Neill, who expressed hostility to the investigation and later was fired.

Per multiple sources, Ravens employees automatically and without hesitation surrendered their cell phones for forensic examination that entailed a specific search for certain recipients and phrases. The procedure balanced the needs of the investigation with individual privacy rights.

Here, multiple individuals chose to extend their privacy rights so broadly that it interfered with their obligation to cooperate with their employer. Separate from whatever the Patriots did or didn’t do to the footballs, the failure to cooperate requires punishment, or others will do the same thing in the future.


The one glaring problem with this theory is that the NFL is not the employer. The Patriots are Tom Brady's employer. And as far as I know it was only one individual (Brady) that refuse to surrender his cell phone.

Why should he participate and cooperate with this kangaroo court? Maybe they investigated the officials he might cooperate. In all of those other case cited there were serious laws broken and/or rules infractions causing bodily harm and even death to people. This involves a ball being under inflated. And don't forget. ten balls were between 12.4 and 12.49, one ball was around 11.5 and the twelfth ball was t 12.5 exactly. We're talking about a ball being under inflated by a pound as opposed to coaches offering financial reward to players who injure opposing players or people being killed.

The problem here is the officials not doing their job properly and teams having to go against the rules to protect themselves from the referees.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

According to the investigator, Brady cooperated fully.

Wells went on to add that Tom Brady cooperated fully with the investigation and answered every question. But he criticized the Pats for not allowing him to question one of the ball boys a second time.

[ajbrown]

The one glaring problem with this theory is that the NFL is not the employer. The Patriots are Tom Brady's employer. And as far as I know it was only one individual (Brady) that refuse to surrender his cell phone.

Why should he participate and cooperate with this kangaroo court? Maybe they investigated the officials he might cooperate. In all of those other case cited there were serious laws broken and/or rules infractions causing bodily harm and even death to people. This involves a ball being under inflated. And don't forget. ten balls were between 12.4 and 12.49, one ball was around 11.5 and the twelfth ball was t 12.5 exactly. We're talking about a ball being under inflated by a pound as opposed to coaches offering financial reward to players who injure opposing players or people being killed.

The problem here is the officials not doing their job properly and teams having to go against the rules to protect themselves from the referees.

Where did you see those numbers? What I have read is that they only measured 11 Pats footballs at half time. They skipped the one Indy intercepted. From this link: Finally, the halftime PSI numbers are known | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/finally-the-halftime-psi-numbers-are-known/)

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

On another report I also read that they measured 4 balls from the Colts. On one referees gauge 3 of the 4 were under inflated...

See: Wells Report: More Probable Than Not Colts Played With Under-Inflated Footballs (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/wells-report-more-probable-than-not-colts-played-with-under-inflated-footballs/33495/)

[DonH57]

So what is the minimum pressure a football may be to be legitimate and why officials pump them up to 16 knowing different quarterbacks like different feels of pressure? Is there a maximum?

[Bosoxfan]

"Quarterback A, let’s call him Aaron, admits he likes footballs that have more air pressure in them than the NFL allows and defies the officials to do anything about it. This story is repeated by a network’s No. 1 broadcast team as a funny little anecdote in the middle of a Patriots game, but no one can remember hearing it because it just wasn’t that important. Aaron remains an adored media darling and his coach and team are revered throughout the land.
Quarterback B, let’s say his name is Brad, confesses he shelled out $7,500 in bribes to doctor up the 100 footballs he used when he won a Super Bowl. The universe shrugs and the coach he won it with is the toast of the football broadcasting world.
Quarterback E, Eli, if you will, has equipment guys scour, scrub, soak, season, fold, spindle, mutilate and guard his ‘hand made’ footballs with their lives. He and his coach are the heroes of a nation for the two times they vanquished the evil menace known as the Patriots.
Quarterback P, Peyton, with the management team and Coach Fox committed 3 NFL rule violations: Denver team and coach fined almost 2 million for taping the 49ers' at Wembley Stadium 2010 and violating the NFL Salary Cap rule 2 times
Quarterback T, Tom, may or may not have started the AFC championship game with non-conforming footballs, but once they were removed from the game he went 12-for-14 for 155 yards, two touchdowns and 28 points in a half without them. For that, he and his coach are the cheatingest Cheatriots that ever cheated and there’s talk they should be killed with fire, their fields salted and their families banished from the land. The other Quarterback in that game, Andrew, also used deflated balls. No one seems to care.
Is it unfair? Is there a double or quadruple standard at work here? Absolutely. But like I said before, I’m over wanting the world to like the Patriots. Embrace the hate. Brady will win more games, more playoff games, throw more postseason touchdowns and hades-willing winning more Super Bowls than anyone else. When anyone accuses the Patriots of anything, it’s a scandal. When the rest of the world does it, there’s nothing to see here."

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

So what is the minimum pressure a football may be to be legitimate and why officials pump them up to 16 knowing different quarterbacks like different feels of pressure? Is there a maximum?

The rules state that the balls must be between 12.5 and 13.5.

[TheVillageChicken]

As reported by The Onion, the NFL is launching a separate investigation into whether veteran tackle Vince Wilfork was properly inflated during the game.

http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/2843/3/original/960.jpg

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Where did you see those numbers? What I have read is that they only measured 11 Pats footballs at half time. They skipped the one Indy intercepted. From this link: Finally, the halftime PSI numbers are known | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/finally-the-halftime-psi-numbers-are-known/)

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

On another report I also read that they measured 4 balls from the Colts. On one referees gauge 3 of the 4 were under inflated...

See: Wells Report: More Probable Than Not Colts Played With Under-Inflated Footballs (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/wells-report-more-probable-than-not-colts-played-with-under-inflated-footballs/33495/)

You're right. My numbers came from an erroneous report, by the NFL, that ten of the balls were only a "few ticks" under.

But there is a lot of interesting information in the link that you posted.
Further complicating matters for the NFL is the lack of clear evidence that the starting point for each ball was 12.5 PSI. Given that the NFL was aware of the issue before the game began, it’s stunning that a record of the measurements wasn’t made.

They don't know what the balls were at when the official OK'd them? Really?
They also don't know what kind of gauge, if any, the official used. And the NFL was aware of the problem before the game began and they allowed it to start without rechecking the balls? Does this sound like a frame up to anyone else?

the ball that had been intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson during the second quarter not included.
Are you kidding me? The ball that started the whole controversy wasn't measures? Any rational person would think that you would measure that ball first and if it were found to be under the minimum, only then would yo go and check the rest of them.

Regardless, the raw numbers aren’t nearly as bad as they were originally portrayed to be.
In the interests of fairness to everyone, that fact can’t be disregarded.

In other words, and as PFT reported at the time, 10 of the balls were closer to one pound under the minimum PSI than two.

The numbers show only one ball a full 2.0 PSI under — and that was based on a measurement that apparently happened after a different measurement showed that same ball at 1.6 PSI under.
It evidently wasn't enough under to suit their purposes so they remeasured that one ball. How can anyone trust this organization (the NFL) to do anything right?

This entire thing was cooked up by Harbaugh and Pagnano to embarrass the Patriots.

[scarecrow1]

Anyone that has played a sport with an inflated ball should know that finding the difference in a couple of ounces in an inflated volleyball, basketball, football etc. is almost negligible. Anyone with half a brain could tell you this. Then again look who we are dealing with a commissioner with no brains. Look how he handled the domestic violence issue. You mean to tell me someone that causes a felone assault gets off with less of a punishment than an undetectable under inflation of a ball? Think of this. If both teams used the same balls at game time this wouldn't have been an issue. Next we will see baseball teams using different baseballs......

[DonH57]

As reported by The Onion, the NFL is launching a separate investigation into whether veteran tackle Vince Wilfork was properly inflated during the game.

http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/2843/3/original/960.jpg

Good one.:BigApplause: