Sable Palm Trees Wilting (TPPD suspected)

[TomW]

Three of my five Sabal palm appear to be wilting. I haven't noticed any discoloration but the leaves on the lower, older fronds droop and hang straight down. There are two healthy trees in the same plot and I can pretty well rule out watering and fertilizing issues.

I fear they are infected with Texas Phoenix Palm Decline disease. This is a bacteria, spread by insects, that infects Sable palms and eventually kills them. There is no practical cure. Has anyone else noticed a similar condition with their Sables?

[Ozzello]

Haven't seen it hit sables around here yet, but I know sables are commonly infected. I have seen a couple sylvesters and several washingtonias I am fairly certain died from TPPDD last year in TV. Funny the map of FL TPPDD infestations still doesn't show any cases in this area.. maybe it needs updating.. or it wasn't TPPDD.. or no one reported the cases. Maybe they didn't know?

Could be lethal yellowing or "bud beetles". Tell tale of TPPDD is bloom sprouts dying early without seeding. The inoculation isn't all that expensive and will stop the disease. Trees that are treated quarterly can still become infected, but will never show symptoms or die from it.

I'm on the fence as to providing an inoculation service and trying to educate folks in this area as to the probable recent infestations and increased spreading of TPPDD in TV and how they can keep their palms safe, or waiting...and watching. Already bought the tools to do it so I could inoculate mine and my friends trees if I see any increase in the palms dying around TV.

[TomW]

According to the UF site inoculation is estimated to cost about $200 per application with 4 applications suggested per year. That is out of range for me and my yard trees. I have five of them in my yard and will just remove them if, in fact, I can verify TPPD is present.

I'm not convinced 100% it is TPPD but no other 'crown collapse' type disease has as many listed symptoms as do my trees. I also noticed the same thing in 2-3 trees just south of 466a.

I would say it is inconclusive at this point but very probable. I'll have to figure out a way to verify what is going on and plan to see if I can get an expert to look at them. The trees have been in the ground about 18 months at my location but the symptoms appeared only 60 days ago.

If I get any definitive useful information, I will post it here.

[Ozzello]

The cost is around 5 bucks per, if you buy the med and have the equipment. If people are charging 200 a shot, I am officially off the fence and in the business. Felt a bit greedy thinking I would charge 20 bucks per inoculation.

[Ozzello]

Sad that the county , or the UF MG program has yet to address this and provide an affordable prevention service. A nice chunk of Florida's economy is dependent on TV's palm market. So much for the appearance of benevolence.

[mickey100]

Here is a link from Florida Extension that describes the disease. Looks like it may also affect Queen and Robellini palms, as well as the sable, Washingtonias, and sylvesters.
PP243/PP163: Texas Phoenix Palm Decline (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp163)

[tommy steam]

Serious stuff.

[Ozzello]

Here is a link from Florida Extension that describes the disease. Looks like it may also affect Queen and Robellini palms, as well as the sable, Washingtonias, and sylvesters.
PP243/PP163: Texas Phoenix Palm Decline (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp163)

Last I knew, they said it likely COULD affect queens, but had no known cases.

[kittygilchrist]

Tom, lower older fronds on a sable naturally droop and turn brown. It is called a "skirt" and can be left in its beauty or trimmed, at no higher than 90 degrees to the ground.
I would photo and send to master gardeners or Jim Davis.

[Ozzello]

He has 5 sable palms and has done plenty of investigation on his own. This guy did not start this thread over the natural "skirt" of older fronds.

He needs physical testing of the trees, even the immortal Dr. Jim... oh wait, does he have his doctorate? Even the great Jim D can't tell the difference between lethal yellowing and TPPDD.... from a photo.

This horrible disease is too destructive and been allowed to kill trees in TV for the last year under the radar. Get a palm expert out there, get the trees tested and maybe get TV on the road towards stopping this from wiping out our palms and freezing the palm sales in all the TV due to the on coming quarantine like there is in what... 4 counties now?

Not something for the MGs to talk on the phone and have meetings over. This is a HUGE PROBLEM IN MULTIPLE STATES Locate it, remove dead trees, and inoculate the ones worth saving. Time for the talk show is over TPPDD is in TV, own up to it.

[mickey100]

Last I knew, they said it likely COULD affect queens, but had no known cases.

For what its worth, the article said it had been confirmed in a few queen palms. It does sound like the main culprit is going to be the sable palms. Part of the problem is that its difficult to diagnose, and people may have diseased trees and don't even know it, which may hasten the spread of it.

[Ozzello]

You can save a palm with early diagnosis, (when it is only affecting the bloom sprouts) if you begin inoculations. The disease is pretty quick though, so if they don't know today, they will in a month.

Sables are high on the list, sylvesters and washingtonias as well.

Would like some feedback from you Sylvester owners out there... would you spend 80 dollars a year to insure your palm?

[kittygilchrist]

[QUOTE=TomW;1057723]Three of my five Sabal palm appear to be wilting. I haven't noticed any discoloration but the leaves on the lower, older fronds droop and hang straight down. There are two healthy trees in the same plot and I can pretty well rule out watering and fertilizing issues.

I fear they are infected with Texas Phoenix Palm Decline disease. This is a bacteria, spread by insects, that infects Sable palms and eventually kills them. There is no practical cure. Has anyone else noticed a similar condition with their Sables?[/QUOTE

Please allow experts to advise you and not take advice without researching by getting best advice from a certified arborist.
Here is a photo from UF Ifas of a sable with the texas disease. Healthy sables are all along Morse between sumter and 466a. Would like for personal interest to see several photos of your palms you describe as having wilting and browning, which on a skirt is normal.
If we have the problem, we should know, and if not, we should not panic.

Would you like to have the UF site for cerified arborists?

[kittygilchrist]

http://youtu.be/cAL19Dz11rI

What is a normal wilt and brown for sable skirts...UF endorsed reearch.

[TomW]

Thank you Kitty for the photos. My trees are all still green with the center 'stalks' upright or fanning out normally. But, the leaves attached to the central stalks are limp and they hang straight down. There is no 'beard' so to speak; just limp leaves drooping from the central stalk on maybe half or two thirds of the lower stalks.

I agree with another poster that this is serious stuff. If my trees have this disease, I will need to remove them and eat the considerable expense. I have a general plan in mind involving consulting state, county and local arborist resources and see who is available to help me determine the extent of the problem. I fear my trees are beyond Ozzello's ministrations of inoculation but if you see droopy leaves on sabals in your neighborhood, I would probably spend a few bucks to inoculate healthy trees. It would be cheap insurance until we know what is going on for sure.

Again, I don't know for sure my trees are infected with TPPD but they sure have many of the symptoms.

[kittygilchrist]

How to find a certified arborist...site recommended by UF agricultural extension agent, Jim Davis:
Trees Are Good (http://www.treesaregood.org/findanarborist/arboristsearch.aspx)

Master gardeners can often tell you whether your palm appears to be normal, but if there is doubt, will recommend you bring in a certified arborist. Thanks for posting about this..it is interesting research, a difficult pest to identify and treat.
Let us know how this goes...

[kittygilchrist]

Tom, i asked the UF agent Jim Davis if there were known cases in Sumter Co.
Kitty,

First, I need to see the palms in question.
TPPD has not yet been diagnosed in Sumter County. That is not to say it is not here, just the samples we sent in through the years of suspected palms that have TPPD have come up negative.
As the gentleman states, no one can 100% diagnose TPPD visually. Samples must be sent in to a lab for verification. However, there are signs and symptoms to look for. This is the case for other fatal diseases such as Ganoderma and Fusarium Wilt or severe nutrient deficiencies such as boron or abiotic disorders such as planting too deep or lightning.
Samples are $75 per sample, so if the gentleman or another homeowner wants to test their palms, there are procedures and submission guidelines to follow.

Sincerely,

Jim

[TomW]

I have a preliminary opinion from a certified arborist that the condition is probably NOT TPPD as there is no yellowing present. His opinion is based on pictures I submitted. I am waiting to hear from Jim Davis for a second opinion now but he was out of the office today. The arborist said there had been no confirmed cases in Sumter County to date.

[kittygilchrist]

Thanks, Tom. I hope your palms can be saved. One of our highest regarded master gardeners calls this area "a honeypot" because we have so many new palms and landscape plants in a small area.
And I would add, it may not be a monoculture, but less able to defend itself than an old woods.

[kittygilchrist]

Haven't seen it hit sables around here yet, but I know sables are commonly infected. I have seen a couple sylvesters and several washingtonias I am fairly certain died from TPPDD last year in TV. Funny the map of FL TPPDD infestations still doesn't show any cases in this area.. maybe it needs updating.. or it wasn't TPPDD.. or no one reported the cases. Maybe they didn't know?

Could be lethal yellowing or "bud beetles". Tell tale of TPPDD is bloom sprouts dying early without seeding. The inoculation isn't all that expensive and will stop the disease. Trees that are treated quarterly can still become infected, but will never show symptoms or die from it.

I'm on the fence as to providing an inoculation service and trying to educate folks in this area as to the probable recent infestations and increased spreading of TPPDD in TV and how they can keep their palms safe, or waiting...and watching. Already bought the tools to do it so I could inoculate mine and my friends trees if I see any increase in the palms dying around TV.

Since there are no palms known to experts in Sumter county with this disease, where do you live, Ozello? You bought equipment and are thinking of offering to inoculate palms against a disease we to date do not have?

I have been reading your posts for a while, which often and unjustly diss UF master gardeners, and I am encouraging readers to trust in the UF agricultural extension office and agent Jim Davis.
They have no other motive than to help people and agriculture.

That you Said you are "fairly certain" about the disease killing trees in this area, I ask you to supply your credentials as an expert and evidence for making a diagnosis, since it can only be done by lab analysis on a properly collected sample of bacteria.

[Ozzello]

Did you talk to ALL the experts in the area? No, I didn't get a call. Neither did Earl G. nor Dr. Holloway. You might want to talk to them, smart folks .

If you read my posts, you see I KNOW, there have been no cases of TPPDD officially reported in TV.

Where I live is my personal info.

I bought equipment to inoculate MY trees and my customers and neighbors trees against a disease that is knocking on our back door for sure, and probably just getting a foothold in TV.

Was that Sylvester tested removed from the Buena Vista circle just N of 466A last year?

There has been SEVERAL palms removed and I can give you locations of 3 more palms declining apparently with TPPDD ... I could give you my credentials as well...

I have not and do not 'dis' UF or the Master Gardeners. A portion of my education is through UF's actual horticulture and agriculture program, you know, where you get a degree, and are taught by someone with a Masters DEGREE.

I also passed the Master Gardener's exam years ago when it was new. I think it a great program for folks and it generates lots of help for hobby gardeners and money for UF, my favorite college. I didn't have time for the volunteer hours, and I help enough people in my travels, I don't need the karma, and my actual credentials outweigh Master Gardener Certification.

Now you are the right path, Kitty. As I said previously.. the trees need to be looked at (in person) by an expert , and TESTED.

Oh yea.. almost forgot.... My CREDENTIALS... You don't need them. I give them when I publish. This is the internet, and no matter how many credentials someone has or doesn't have... the truth is the truth. And a lie (like, queen palms freeze in this area) ... is still a lie.

[TomW]

Well I'm relieved. I've had replies from the UF extension folks and also a certified arborist and the consensus is that there is no disease present. They suspect a nutrient deficiency, possibly boron, which has been seen in some Washingtonians and other palms in TV. I'll keep and eye on them but I was told it would take a season or so to recover. I guess sabals are picky eaters for being such a common tree throughout the Southeast. Thanks to the members for the concern and suggestions.

[mickey100]

Public awareness is always a good thing. I'm glad the info on TPPD was posted, and good to hear your palms don't appear to have it at this time.

[kittygilchrist]

That is good news!
Here is An appropriate example of resources UF trained master gardeners base their answers on...this article is on Fertilization of palms...8-2-12 plus 4 fertlizer, formulated to have micronutrients palms need and your lawn and ornamentals will also benefit.


http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/ep/ep26100.pdf

Note the article ends with info on correcting boron deficiencies...

[kittygilchrist]

Well I'm relieved. I've had replies from the UF extension folks and also a certified arborist and the consensus is that there is no disease present. They suspect a nutrient deficiency, possibly boron, which has been seen in some Washingtonians and other palms in TV. I'll keep and eye on them but I was told it would take a season or so to recover. I guess sabals are picky eaters for being such a common tree throughout the Southeast. Thanks to the members for the concern and suggestions.

Many thanks for a lively discussion. Perhaps, Consider becoming a master gardener? Classes in fall...