What will future generations say about surviving?

[Villages PL]

Remember heart bypass operations and stints as a treatment for coronary artery disease, when all that was needed was a few dietary changes?

Cancer?

Diabetes?

Arthritis?

The aches and pains of old age?

Knee replacement?

Dementia?

[dbussone]

Your leading sentence is significantly in error. Dietary changes, for many people, will not cure/prevent heart disease. Please provide the scientific basis for this comment.

[Villages PL]

Your leading sentence is significantly in error. Dietary changes, for many people, will not cure/prevent heart disease. Please provide the scientific basis for this comment.

When you say "heart disease" are you referring to coronary artery disease?

And when you say "many people" does that mean you also believe that many people can be cured?

[Villages PL]

Can You Reverse Heart Disease? (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/features/can-you-reverse-heart-disease)

Scroll down to where it says, "Yes, You Can!"

[graciegirl]

[


Do you have children VPL?

[Polar Bear]

Remember heart bypass operations and stints as a treatment for coronary artery disease, when all that was needed was a few dietary changes?
Cancer?

Diabetes?

Arthritis?

The aches and pains of old age?

Knee replacement?

Dementia?
I'm not sure a healthy diet works for dementia.

[dbussone]

When you say "heart disease" are you referring to coronary artery disease?

And when you say "many people" does that mean you also believe that many people can be cured?

If you can't respond to my question then don't bother with a response At all please.

[Bonny]

Oh my, here we go again. :ohdear: Just sayin'.

[Average Guy]

Can You Reverse Heart Disease? (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/features/can-you-reverse-heart-disease)

Scroll down to where it says, "Yes, You Can!"

This is a direct quote from the article you sited above:

"I wouldn’t say you can ‘reverse’ heart disease, because that implies you had something and now you don’t," she says. "You can’t cure heart disease, but you can slow its progression.”

[dbussone]

This is a direct quote from the article you sited above:



"I wouldn’t say you can ‘reverse’ heart disease, because that implies you had something and now you don’t," she says. "You can’t cure heart disease, but you can slow its progression.”


Thanks for an objective perspective.

[B767drvr]

Your leading sentence is significantly in error. Dietary changes, for many people, will not cure/prevent heart disease. Please provide the scientific basis for this comment.

I read this book (Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease) and found it informative. The author provides links to his own and other medical studies demonstrating that diet can prevent and reverse heart disease in even the most severely heart diseased patients. I'm sure you can google the links to these studies without reading the book. (I don't have them handy or I'd have included them.)


Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure: Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.: 9781583333006: Amazon.com: Books<-------- click this link to the book

[dbussone]

I read this book (Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease) and found it informative. The author provides links to his own and other medical studies demonstrating that diet can prevent and reverse heart disease in even the most severely heart diseased patients. I'm sure you can google the links to these studies without reading the book. (I don't have them handy or I'd have included them.)


Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure: Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.: 9781583333006: Amazon.com: Books<-------- click this link to the book

Thanks. I'll take a look.

[TheVillageChicken]

This is beginning to make sense to me. When I have my third Bloody Mary of the morning, I am going to skip the bacon....

https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10641208_10202595264264140_6059368816319217370_n.j pg?oh=33ef916d1c2e9dca632364b1b9137daa&oe=55CC8E72

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I read this book (Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease) and found it informative. The author provides links to his own and other medical studies demonstrating that diet can prevent and reverse heart disease in even the most severely heart diseased patients. I'm sure you can google the links to these studies without reading the book. (I don't have them handy or I'd have included them.)


Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure: Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.: 9781583333006: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431224230&sr=8-1&keywords=prevent+and+reverse+heart+disease)<-------- click this link to the book

I read that book by Carl Esselstyn and another by his associate, Dean Ornish. I've also read several books by other cardiologists who prescribe almost the exact opposite diet. They also show numerous studies that support their claim that sugar is the cause of most heart problems and that starchy carbs turn into sugar very quickly. So who's to know what is right.

The problem with any of these diets is that they are very difficult to stick to. Dean Ornish has actually admitted that. Esselstyn is still says that it is easy to follow his program. personally, I don't agree. I tried it and it takes a lot of willpower and a lot of work to find foods that are OK to eat and to prepare them. People who are advocates of that diet will say that that's not true and they find it easy. So I guess some of us may find it difficult and some may not.

It's funny that the medical establishment still talks about low fat, low protein diets but whenever I visit my doctor and my triglyceride levels are high, the first thing he asks is, "Have you been eating a lot of candy or drinking soda?".
So they evidently know what is causing the problem but they really can't go against the AMA and the ridiculous food pyramid.

[Bonny]

This is beginning to make sense to me. When I have my third Bloody Mary of the morning, I am going to skip the bacon....

https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10641208_10202595264264140_6059368816319217370_n.j pg?oh=33ef916d1c2e9dca632364b1b9137daa&oe=55CC8E72
I'll have 2 please ! :loco:

[dbussone]

This is beginning to make sense to me. When I have my third Bloody Mary of the morning, I am going to skip the bacon....



https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10641208_10202595264264140_6059368816319217370_n.j pg?oh=33ef916d1c2e9dca632364b1b9137daa&oe=55CC8E72


That's a fine looking piece of fried something on the top of that low ball glass.

[graciegirl]

What will future generations say about surviving.

Whew, that was close. Those potato chips almost did me in.

Wow, glad to be here, having a turkey sandwich could have been my last act but my insurance is paid up.

I am so sad I survived to see all of us being governed by Isis. Now I wish I had drunk more booze and had more sex.

I survived eating fourteen taco's to perish by being hit by a golf cart in The Villages Florida being driven at an illegal 16 mph.

I survived and I am so glad I did. I ate only lettuce, turnip and pea.

But look what happened to Fred. Dead.

sigh.

[dbussone]

Poor Fred

[DougB]

Freddie's Dead?

[Bonny]

Freddie's Dead?
Aw.... may he rest in peace !

[Barefoot]

I read that book by Carl Esselstyn and another by his associate, Dean Ornish. I've also read several books by other cardiologists who prescribe almost the exact opposite diet. They also show numerous studies that support their claim that sugar is the cause of most heart problems and that starchy carbs turn into sugar very quickly.
So they evidently know what is causing the problem but they really can't go against the AMA and the ridiculous food pyramid.

All books written about "Diet/Lifestyle Changes" are suspect because people love to hear the latest "no fail" diet.
The authors are writing books to make money; they aren't selflessly trying to make the world a better place to live.
A different approach to diet appears weekly. Some grab more attention than others - Remember The Drinking Man's Diet?
Of course there is no one "right" answer because our bodies and systems are all differently constructed.
Frequently new medical information is discovered and tested.
And frequently the new information "flies in the face" of something we've been told for years.
IMHO, moderation and a supportive circle of friends always works.
I've never seen this concept discouraged by any respected author.
I believe it's the foundation of the Weight Watchers Diet which is still considered to be one of the healthiest and successful diet concepts around.

[Villages PL]

Cleveland Clinic researchers found a link between trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO) and cardiovascular disease.

TMAO is produced when you digest choline (found in red meat, eggs and dairy) Those with the highest levels of TMAO had double the risk of death from heart attack and stroke compared to others with the lowest levels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new-culprit-in-heart-disease.html?_r=0

[Villages PL]

The link between iron (in red meat) and heart disease:

Iron consumption can increase risk for heart disease, study shows -- ScienceDaily (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140423170903.htm)

[Villages PL]

Dean Ornish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Ornish)

Lifestyle Heart Trial: "....one year data published in the Lancet in 1990, and
five year data published in the Journal of the American Medical Association,..."

[Villages PL]

Here are some excerpts from his book:

http://www.erasedisease.com/resource/CardiovascularCureExcerpts.pdf

[dbussone]

What will future generations say about surviving.



Whew, that was close. Those potato chips almost did me in.



Wow, glad to be here, having a turkey sandwich could have been my last act but my insurance is paid up.



I am so sad I survived to see all of us being governed by Isis. Now I wish I had drunk more booze and had more sex.



I survived eating fourteen taco's to perish by being hit by a golf cart in The Villages Florida being driven at an illegal 16 mph.



I survived and I am so glad I did. I ate only lettuce, turnip and pea.



But look what happened to Fred. Dead.



sigh.


Tell me that is not the pea in Lake Sum(p)ter Please tell me it ain't so.

[Barefoot]

I am so sad I survived to see all of us being governed by Isis. Now I wish I had drunk more booze and had more sex.

It's not the first time I've heard that said! :icon_wink:

[perrjojo]

People to avoid at parties:
Reformed smokers
Reformed drinkers
Reformed junk food addicts
Reformed couch potatoes.

[TheVillageChicken]

People to avoid at parties:
Reformed smokers
Reformed drinkers
Reformed junk food addicts
Reformed couch potatoes.

Grandparents with photos of their real or fur babies
Amway or Mary Kay reps
My Aunt Jane

[graciegirl]

Grandparents with photos of their real or fur babies
Amway or Mary Kay reps
My Aunt Jane

I thought that was you!

But Aunt Jane had her good qualities. She baked a mean cherry pie!

[graciegirl]

Cleveland Clinic researchers found a link between trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO) and cardiovascular disease.

TMAO is produced when you digest choline (found in red meat, eggs and dairy) Those with the highest levels of TMAO had double the risk of death from heart attack and stroke compared to others with the lowest levels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new-culprit-in-heart-disease.html?_r=0


This link out THIS WEEK from The Cleveland Clinic, The Best heart hospital in the U.S.;

5 On-The-Go Hearty, Heart-Healthy Breakfast Ideas (http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014/08/5-on-the-go-hearty-heart-healthy-breakfast-ideas/?utm_campaign=cc+posts&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas&dynid=facebook-_-cc+posts-_-social-_-social-_-150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas)

[Barefoot]

Cleveland Clinic researchers found a link between trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO) and cardiovascular disease.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/health/study-points-to-new-culprit-in-heart-disease.html?_r=0

This link out THIS WEEK from The Cleveland Clinic, The Best heart hospital in the U.S. ---
5 On-The-Go Hearty, Heart-Healthy Breakfast Ideas (http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014/08/5-on-the-go-hearty-heart-healthy-breakfast-ideas/?utm_campaign=cc+posts&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas&dynid=facebook-_-cc+posts-_-social-_-social-_-150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas)
:shocked: That puts things in perspective.

[Villages PL]

This link out THIS WEEK from The Cleveland Clinic, The Best heart hospital in the U.S.;

5 On-The-Go Hearty, Heart-Healthy Breakfast Ideas (http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014/08/5-on-the-go-hearty-heart-healthy-breakfast-ideas/?utm_campaign=cc+posts&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas&dynid=facebook-_-cc+posts-_-social-_-social-_-150506+on+the+go+breakfast+ideas)\

This is a correction: The link I gave was for a study pertaining only to red meat. The recent article in the AARP Bulletin dated May, 2015, includes eggs and dairy products. At the end it states, "The Cleveland Clinic expects TMAO tests to be commercially available this year." This test supposedly will lead to "personalized nutrition information". Notice this has nothing to do with lowering the one's risk for cancer. They are only looking at heart disease. That's what Dr. Colin Campbell calls "reductionism". When you only look at one thing at a time, it's likely you may get conflicting diet information

Here's the link to the May article: Read # 5 Heart Trouble Ahead
http://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2015/disease-diagnostic-tests.2.html

[Villages PL]

Even when broken up by exercise, lengthy sitting linked to heart disease | News OK (http://newsok.com/even-when-broken-up-by-exercise-lengthy-sitting-linked-to-heart-disease/article/feed/806321)

Keep moving! First wave your left hand and then your right hand, like this---->:wave:

[Villages PL]

I'm not sure a healthy diet works for dementia.

A healthy diet started in midlife can be very helpful: (90% lower risk) Physical activity in midlife is very helpful too.

Help Page -- ScienceDaily (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140310090617.htm)

[Barefoot]

\
Diagnostic Tests Detect Risks for Diseases and Best Treatments - AARP (http://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2015/disease-diagnostic-tests.2.html)

Even when broken up by exercise, lengthy sitting linked to heart disease | News OK (http://newsok.com/even-when-broken-up-by-exercise-lengthy-sitting-linked-to-heart-disease/article/feed/806321)


Help Page -- ScienceDaily (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140310090617.htm)

I'm not sure why you're posting all these links.
As I'm sure you know, if we are interested in any subject regarding health,
we can google the subject and read all the information available.
Is this specific information that you think Villagers need to know?

[dbussone]

I'm not sure why you're posting all these links.
As I'm sure you know, if we are interested in any subject regarding health,
we can google the subject and read all the information available.
Is this specific information that you think Villagers need to know?



I think he is Obama's new Vegan Czar.

[KayakerNC]

I think he is Obama's new Vegan Czar.

I expect to see him knocking at my door, brandishing a copy of the FoodTower, on a mission of conversion.:crap2:

[dbussone]

I expect to see him knocking at my door, brandishing a copy of the FoodTower, on a mission of conversion.:crap2:


Oh boy! I sure hope not. I'm a push over for dietary conversions.

[graciegirl]

Oh boy! I sure hope not. I'm a push over for dietary conversions.


:wine::jester::wave:

[Villages PL]

Your leading sentence is significantly in error. Dietary changes, for many people, will not cure/prevent heart disease. Please provide the scientific basis for this comment.

I put up various links to provide "the scientific basis" for my comment. Now that I have competently done so, it seems it's time for sore losers to change the subject.

[Barefoot]

I put up various links to provide "the scientific basis" for my comment. Now that I have competently done so, it seems it's time for sore losers to change the subject.
This isn't a wrestling match. There are no "winners" and there are no "sore losers". Just people debating different points of view. :024:

[Villages PL]

Your leading sentence is significantly in error. Dietary changes, for many people, will not cure/prevent heart disease. Please provide the scientific basis for this comment.

Originally Posted by barefoot; Is this specific information that you think villagers need to know?

Yes, I was providing a scientific basis for my point that coronary artery disease can be prevented, halted or even reversed.

[dbussone]

Sounds to me like a comment by someone who lost the debate. With no valid points to make, the next best thing is to make jokes about the OP.


This was neither a debate nor a discussion. The OP is unable to stay on point or respond to questions without raising another question. When I was on a debate team an individual lost points for that.

[CFrance]

Sounds to me like a comment by someone who lost the debate. With no valid points to make, the next best thing is to make jokes about the OP.
Only an impartial judge gets to decide who lost the debate. Certainly not one of the participants. Even a suggestion of loss by less than a judge is worthless.

[TheVillageChicken]

Can You Reverse Heart Disease? (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/features/can-you-reverse-heart-disease)

Scroll down to where it says, "Yes, You Can!"

The author has a BA in English Lit and an MA in Non Fiction Writing...hardly the credentials to accompany these claims. The expert she is touting, Dr Ornish is a self-promoting author who at best is considered to conduct non-scientific research and at worst to be a quack by many leading cardiologists.