El Santiago

[dandt]

When first here, five years ago, we loved El Santiago. It subsequently went through some tough times and we gave it up, but recently we found it was looking good again.

Yesterday we went there with a group and it seemed pricier -- not too surprising these days, but we were shocked to discover that if two want to share an entree, $5.00 is charged. A couple with us said they didn't care about an second plate or cutlery or any of that, but were told they would still have to pay the $5. None of us ordered an entree at that point, nor will be in the future. And perhaps we won't go there at all.

[redwitch]

I know that in California, this kind of surcharge is pretty common. Quite honestly, I was surprised it wasn't in TV given that so many do share one entree. The profit margin on food really isn't that high (most of the money comes from drinks), so two people sharing one meal can pretty much cost the profit of a table of six to nothing. I think that as prices continue to rise you're going to be seeing more of this practice around here, especially in the country clubs.

[Taltarzac]

This list of restaurant tricks is interesting. It is from AOL. http://money.aol.com/special/i-spy-restaurant-tricks

Saw this a while back on AOL.

[cashman]

How do you like the new prices and noise at the el santiago?

[pili]

My husband and I enjoy El Santiago a lot. We usually go there on Monday nights for German food. The food is very good and the prices are reasonable. Brian, the new chef, is very nice and his food is excellent. I have no problem with charging $5 to share a meal. Let's face it, restaurants have costs and have to make money. Most of the dinners are around $10-15 if everyone shares a meal, they will go out of business. The food is good and the prices are good.

[dillywho]

Not knowing all the in's and out's of the restaurant business, this question may not be appreciated, but here goes. Why could the restaurants not serve smaller portions and charge a little less for each entree? That would eliminate the need for people to share. Many of us who no longer work, simply cannot eat that much and it is a shame to waste. Surely they could make more than $5.00 per person by doing this due to sheer volume. Surely the profit is not $5.00 per entree, is it? Too many things, for instance, are not good warmed over so why take it home? What about those who choose to eat and then do something else instead of going straight home? My mother could never enjoy eating out in her later years because the portions were so large and after living through the depression years, she just could not fathom all that waste.

[krash]

I have been a server for a good many years, and continue to work here in the villages. Most people who come to dine and want to share a plate are generally not doing so because the portions are so big... it's because they are cheap. They order the "village cocktail" ... a/k/a water with lemon. And they want extra lemons so that they can make lemonade. And, not only do they consume massive quantities of dinner rolls and bread, but they ask for extra - and then not eat them - and ask for a bag to take them home, because it would "be a sin to waste them".
Does the restaurant make any money on this type of shenanigans? Haha, I doubt it.
That's why they charge for an extra plate.

[Bonny]

My husband and I enjoy El Santiago a lot. We usually go there on Monday nights for German food. The food is very good and the prices are reasonable. Brian, the new chef, is very nice and his food is excellent. I have no problem with charging $5 to share a meal. Let's face it, restaurants have costs and have to make money. Most of the dinners are around $10-15 if everyone shares a meal, they will go out of business. The food is good and the prices are good.

Brian has been the chef at El Santiago almost from the beginning.

[dillywho]

I have been a server for a good many years, and continue to work here in the villages. Most people who come to dine and want to share a plate are generally not doing so because the portions are so big... it's because they are cheap. They order the "village cocktail" ... a/k/a water with lemon. And they want extra lemons so that they can make lemonade. And, not only do they consume massive quantities of dinner rolls and bread, but they ask for extra - and then not eat them - and ask for a bag to take them home, because it would "be a sin to waste them".
Does the restaurant make any money on this type of shenanigans? Haha, I doubt it.
That's why they charge for an extra plate.

If these people are so "cheap", then why do they eat out in the first place? As for the "village cocktail", water is what I normally drink at home unless it is breakfast (coffee) or sometimes wine at dinner. I usually don't order wine out because I don't want to pay bottle price for a small glasss....oops,forgot that's cheap, huh? We don't eat much bread, period, so extra is not in the cards for us. How many almost full plates have you returned to be trashed because the customer could not eat it all or how many "to go boxes" does the restaurant have to keep in inventory because of the large portions? Those boxes just add to the cost of the restaurant, hence less profit. We also split meals at home....for instance, baked potatoes. That is not because we are cheap....we just don't waste. I couldn't understand why my mother would cook one steak and one potato for herself and my dad after they retired. Now I do.

[chuckster]

Have to agree with Krash...........Just to clear the air, I'm not an employee or owner of any local business. I was in my other life and have seen what he described on numerous ocassions. As an added insult these peeps tend to leave little if any tip for the server. Incidentally we have shared meals and don't object to plate charges along with a couple of glasses of house wine with dinner. Dining out is part of our entertainment budget.:beer3:

[dillywho]

My whole point is that those items that some like to share does not make the people cheapos. I have no problem with a small charge for splitting, but for a $10 - $15 meal, $5.00 seems a little excessive. We normally do not split a meal when we go out, if for no other reason, we each get what we like and we don't like many of the same things sometimes. We don't share steaks; we don't share rhubens (I don't like them); we don't share burgers, but do share the fries of one combo and usually end up trashing some of them. For that reason, why would we order 2 combos instead of a burger and a combo? I understand about the bread, etc. so charge extra for that (seconds). Some places, particularly Mexican food restaurants, will charge for more chips & hot sauce for instance. Makes sense to me as some will pretty much make a whole meal on them. As for tipping, I have worked in the past as a server and have a very good understanding of what the tips mean to servers. I always leave a generous tip for that reason, even for a small check. Find someone who has never been a server and they will be the ones to leave little or no tip. On the other side of the coin, we had a server in Katie Belle's not long ago, that purposely shorted me $10 just because she thought I wouldn't notice since we had stayed for a while and ordered several drinks. When I pointed it out to her, she didn't hesitate and promptly handed me the $10. Her explanation was absolutely lame, but she still got a tip....just not as good as she would have. We have had her since then and there has been no problem. Like my daddy used to say, "I never did see a board that didn't have two sides" and that seems to fit here.

[golfnut]

Sometimes we split, sometimes we don't. I personally don't believe an additional charge of $5.00 is reasonable. We went to restaurant the other day and split an order of ribs, the waitress couldn't have been more accomodating she brought us 2 rolls instead of one and several extra plates so we had some for both the salad and the main dish all without being asked to, and there was no extra charge, we will be going back there again. If I go to a restaurant that charges for splitting we don't go back. I do like the idea of restaurants offering smaller portions for a lesser charge.....GN

[krash]

If these people are so "cheap", then why do they eat out in the first place? As for the "village cocktail", water is what I normally drink at home unless it is breakfast (coffee) or sometimes wine at dinner. I usually don't order wine out because I don't want to pay bottle price for a small glasss....oops,forgot that's cheap, huh? We don't eat much bread, period, so extra is not in the cards for us. How many almost full plates have you returned to be trashed because the customer could not eat it all or how many "to go boxes" does the restaurant have to keep in inventory because of the large portions? Those boxes just add to the cost of the restaurant, hence less profit. We also split meals at home....for instance, baked potatoes. That is not because we are cheap....we just don't waste. I couldn't understand why my mother would cook one steak and one potato for herself and my dad after they retired. Now I do.

Dillywho - I was not referring to YOUR eating habits as I don't have a clue who you are - don't get so defensive. Please understand, I am only speaking about those that take advantage of "free" things... like EXTRA lemons to make free lemonade, when there is lemonade offered on the menu, and EXTRA bread/rolls to take home.

And you asked why people go out if they're cheap? Well, sometimes it might actually be cheaper to eat out than cook it yourself, especially when you split a meal- no need for special ingredients, no need for gas/electric, no need for water/cleanup.

[krash]

And another suggestion - instead of splitting meals - why not just ask for the lunch menu! Less food... less waste!

[golfnut]

Although it's a great concept, I've never been to a restaurant that offered a lunch menu at dinner time, not saying they aren't out there, just never found one.....GN

[dillywho]

And another suggestion - instead of splitting meals - why not just ask for the lunch menu! Less food... less waste!

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as defensive. Believe me, our home cooking is not gourmet so it is not cheaper for us to eat out. I would be happy to order from the lunch menu when it is permitted. There are very few places that offer it, but that shows that they could also offer smaller portions and do very well with it. Why not offer "heaftier appetite" choices and keep portions and prices reasonable? That makes more sense to me than the $5 charge to share. Betcha it would discourage sharing, too.

[zcaveman]

I know some places offer a senior menu which is smaller portions at a lesser cost. Although i have not found anyof those menus at the country clubs. Maybe they should try that.

[kittylecroix]

My husband and I almost always share a meal, and it's because we don't want to overeat. We both agree that we have never left a place hungry when we split, but we're not stuffed either. What he does is double the price of the one meal, and tip based on that at 20%. That way the server isn't being short changed on the tip, and I don't think the establishment is losing out either. Better to sell one meal than none. We agreed if there is a line of people waiting we will both order a meal and take home half. That way the restaurant isn't losing out on that extra meal. I also have to add that we have never felt that the server was bothered by this at all, and in fact, usually places will split the meal in the kitchen and serve it on two plates which is going the extra step for customer service.

[Hawkwind]

Although it's a great concept, I've never been to a restaurant that offered a lunch menu at dinner time, not saying they aren't out there, just never found one.....GN

I was at Palmer last week at about 4:00 pm and they brought out both for me to choose from.

[Raymond]

We went to restaurant the other day and split an order of ribs, the waitress couldn't have been more accomodating she brought us 2 rolls instead of one and several extra plates so we had some for both the salad and the main dish all without being asked to, and there was no extra charge, we will be going back there again. If I go to a restaurant that charges for splitting we don't go back.
Sure, everything should be free, right?
- The extra dinner roll, free
- The lemon in the Water, free
- The waitress for 50 people who share the meal, partially paid by owner free,
- Bathroom use (Water, soap, paper towels, all free
- Dishwasher time for extra glasses, free
Dishwasher soap, free
Energy for dishwasher, free
Energy for AC (extra people, half charge), free

There a lot of people they like to have everything free. And if a Restaurant closes because too many people just split or not enough supporting a Restaurant, everybody is crying. It is a shame they have close the business, they was so good, I don’t understand…………

A Restaurant lives from Costumers. A good Restaurant provides good Food and good service to provide you an unforgettable meal and a nice evening. But what a Restaurant doesn’t need is people share the dinner and like to have everything for free.

Of course in today’s time and economy, no one has too much money to spend. But if you like to keep your Restaurant at your choice you should think about they’re expense.

And if a Restaurant charges a fee for sharing around $2, this is more than reasonable and should be gladly accepted. Otherwise McDonalds is may be a better choice for you.

[Bonny]

Sure, everything should be free, right?
- The extra dinner roll, free
- The lemon in the Water, free
- The waitress for 50 people who share the meal, partially paid by owner free,
- Bathroom use (Water, soap, paper towels, all free
- Dishwasher time for extra glasses, free
Dishwasher soap, free
Energy for dishwasher, free
Energy for AC (extra people, half charge), free

There a lot of people they like to have everything free. And if a Restaurant closes because too many people just split or not enough supporting a Restaurant, everybody is crying. It is a shame they have close the business, they was so good, I don’t understand…………

A Restaurant lives from Costumers. A good Restaurant provides good Food and good service to provide you an unforgettable meal and a nice evening. But what a Restaurant doesn’t need is people share the dinner and like to have everything for free.

Of course in today’s time and economy, no one has too much money to spend. But if you like to keep your Restaurant at your choice you should think about they’re expense.

And if a Restaurant charges a fee for sharing around $2, this is more than reasonable and should be gladly accepted. Otherwise McDonalds is may be a better choice for you.

:pepper2:Well said. And let's not forget the sugar that people put in the lemon water to make it taste like lemonade.

[dillywho]

I still say that $5 per person on a $10-$15 meal is unreasonable. A reasonable charge could be acceptable ($1 - $2). That restaurant lost in many ways..1) no meals got ordered at that time, the people all left - cost, at least $20 - $30; 2) sounds like those people don't intend to go back ever and won't encourage their friends to go, either; 3) some on this board won't go in the first place if they like to share as opposed to overeat, waste, or carry out. Just looks to me like the $5 is costing them much more than the splitting would in the first place. Like I said before, serve smaller portions with a reasonable price and there is no need to split. I would rather go to a restaurant that states on the menu that splitting is not permitted than set a price to split. There are some restaurants that do this and I have seen that it is always the case at buffets which is reasonable. Years ago in Dallas, there was a cafeteria that you were allowed to go through as many times as you would like, but after the first time through you would be charged extra for whatever was left on your plate and there was no take out. It worked very well, too, because people would get only what they could consume. The people that try to make their own lemonade, etc. are the exception and not the rule. As for the A/C, bathrooms, etc. that is what's known as the cost of doing business regardless if it is a packed house or 2 customers or meals are split, and as such is tax deductible.

[Raymond]

I still say that $5 per person on a $10-$15 meal is unreasonable.
I agree here

A reasonable charge could be acceptable ($1 - $2).
It is more than acceptable

That restaurant lost in many ways..1) no meals got ordered at that time, the people all left - cost, at least $20 - $30; 2) sounds like those people don't intend to go back ever and won't encourage their friends to go, either; 3)
Most people think different. Most people accept a sharing fee, some view cheap do not.

Like I said before, serve smaller portions with a reasonable price and there is no need to split.
Most people I know enjoy a good portion and would like to take it home for the next day lunch or for they kids. And there are a lot of people they are hungry and eat a normal portion and not a half. This your personal eating style not was most people like.

The people that try to make their own lemonade, etc. are the exception and not the rule.
It is more and more happend. Seen this almost every day.

As for the A/C, bathrooms, etc. that is what's known as the cost of doing business regardless if it is a packed house or 2 customers or meals are split,
Sorry but your calculating skills are not correct.
Double people using bathroom, using plates and silver ware and the room's AC (people heating the room up) but paying only half price (share) it's the same for the owner?
Think about that.

[dillywho]

Raymond,

You make some good points and some not so good. I don't care to be labeled as 'cheap' when I order water with lemon (one slice only). Why should I order restaurant colored water (tea) when I don't want or enjoy it. I drink water with most meals at home with the exception of breakfast. There are those that will abuse anything always...restaurant dining is not exception. If you don't believe me about the abuses and are a golfer, just look around there. It is also one of the reasons for the Guest ID changes.

As people age, they tend to eat less. I know this is fast becoming a not so old community, but what is wrong with offering smaller portions as opposed to oversized portions? Keep the larger portions on the menu, but offer the others as well. Then if they order the larger portion items and share, charge them then.

On another note not based on any of your reply, in any event, I say to all...don't berate the servers about it. They just work there and don't deserve to take the flack. Unless it has to do with their performance, be nice to them.

[Raymond]

but what is wrong with offering smaller portions as opposed to oversized portions? Keep the larger portions on the menu, but offer the others as well. Then if they order the larger portion items and share, charge them then.

A lot of Items is very hard to prepare in very small portions. Especially if you have a quality Restaurant and make food from scratch and not like many others from freezer to fryer food.
And small portions combinated with low money is more expencive.
Because the quality food Is cheap a lot more people come to the Restaurant just because of the price. More people means more enegry cost, more water use, more power use, more dishwasher, more server.........
That means the cost of the small portion will be proportional higher than the cost of a larger portion with less customers.

[TrudyM]

When I was growing up my family had a ski lodge. We tried two different systems. Family style with large platters of food with a per platter cost (one platter would feed three or so) and a per person plate charge of 50 cents (It was the 60's) for big groups, this helped cover all the kids and no food was wasted.

The second was for weekdays when we had fewer guests. We had a salad and split option. You bought a side salad and split the entree it worked out very well. People liked it better than a plate charge for spliting the entree. The note on the menu said save room for pie try our salad and split option. As my mom was known for her pies it was very popular.

Small portions of some items are impossible for the kitchen. Also people tend to gauge the value by the size of the portions. We found you could charge more for larger portions but charging less for smaller ones hurt business.

Just my expierience from the other side of the kitchen door.

[cashman]

The el santiago has the best chef in tv but since the new speaker
was installed inside the restaurant the noise from the outside entertainment prevents us from having a conversation without yelling at each other. The speaker is also very poor quality and therefore is irritating to the ears.

[dillywho]

A lot of Items is very hard to prepare in very small portions. Especially if you have a quality Restaurant and make food from scratch and not like many others from freezer to fryer food.
And small portions combinated with low money is more expencive.
Because the quality food Is cheap a lot more people come to the Restaurant just because of the price. More people means more enegry cost, more water use, more power use, more dishwasher, more server.........
That means the cost of the small portion will be proportional higher than the cost of a larger portion with less customers.

I understand that some things cannot be in smaller portions. However, some places offer a 'senior menu' which are smaller portions. Not every menu item is listed on it...only those that can be in smaller portions. I understand, also why country clubs don't offer this, but I don't think El Santiago qualifies as a country club. Since most of the business here comes from retirees, the idea of taking it home to the kids won't fly. I know my grandkids would rather go for a burger or pizza than stay home with restaurant left-overs. As for the energy cost, etc., why on earth would you want less customers just to save on the utilities? More customers = more profit, and you still get your cost of doing business write off on taxes. The big name air carriers haven't figured that out either and that's why they have added so many other charges in addition to their high fares. They could take lessons from Southwest. Southwest has lower fares and fuller planes and therefore, by operating on volume, don't have to try and make up for less than full flights.

[chuckster]

I know my grandkids would rather go for a burger or pizza than stay home with restaurant left-overs. .

May I suggest, McDonalds, Buger King, Steak and Shake, etc. Sounds like you all would enjoy the food, pricing, etc.

[Raymond]

As for the energy cost, etc., why on earth would you want less customers just to save on the utilities? More customers = more profit,
I thought that was clear.
More customers means:
- more heat from people, also more AC cost
- more Water use in Bathroom
- more paper towels
- more toilet paper
- more handwash soap
- more water glasses to clean means diswasher time
- more plates to clean
- more silverware to clean
- more dishwasher power use
- more dishwashersoap, cleanser and sanitizer
- more server
- more use of sugar, salt, pepper, ketchup, mustard, napkins
- extra rolls

This is all a major cost factor for a Restaurant.

And that all for half price because of shared meals?

No way. If anyone like to have shared meal they should not mind about a $2 fee for that. This is more than OK. People who complain about that little fee for all the extra cost hurt any Restaurant business.

[dillywho]

No way. If anyone like to have shared meal they should not mind about a $2 fee for that. This is more than OK. People who complain about that little fee for all the extra cost hurt any Restaurant business.

I stated earlier that a $2 fee would be reasonable, but not $5 on a $10 - $15 meal. Just returned from lunch at Cane Garden and ordered my usual water with lemon (single slice). We did not split...no need to do so and there was still 1/2 of that same glass of water left over. That is why I order water....I eat more than I drink, although I should probably do it the other way around.....not because I am striving for cheap lemonade. The lemon just makes the water more palatable. The price was very reasonable and there was plenty to eat with some left over, not enough for take out, but some. This is what I am talking about. They are obviously making money or they would not be in business and had a good crowd to boot. (By the way, I did not go to the restroom while I was there nor did the other ladies, and even with the crowd the AC was the same as it was when we got there.)

[krash]

Keep in mind that some of these country clubs restaurants are developer-owned. They might be able to operate on less of a profit than a mom & pop restaurant, where it is most likely their sole income and life savings at stake.