View Full Version : Billionaire sees massive problem caused by aging, and here's my question
Villages PL
05-14-2015, 12:27 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
sunnyatlast
05-14-2015, 12:34 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases. For example: Heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many.
By not doing heart bypass operations for many people with clogged arteries, you'll solve the aging population "problem" by sentencing them die within a couple of weeks. Very efficient method.
Birth rate is the other factor involved. Obviously the baby boomer parents reproduced much more and faster than now.
Does anyone really think the media, Hollywood and Washington are going to campaign for young people to have more babies so there are once again 6 working taxpayers supporting each SS and medicare beneficiary, instead of 2???
I certainly don't think so.
rubicon
05-14-2015, 12:34 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases. For example: Heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many.
VPL: Perhaps I misunderstand your post but are you advocating death panels?
Do you really believe a heart bypass is a useless medical procedure?
Perhaps you accidentally omitted a key phrase when you keyboarded your post?
Personal Best Regards:
outlaw
05-14-2015, 12:40 PM
Soylent green seems to work pretty good...
Villages PL
05-14-2015, 12:54 PM
By not doing heart bypass operations for many people with clogged arteries, you'll solve the aging population "problem" by sentencing them die within a couple of weeks. Very efficient method.
Birth rate is the other factor involved. Obviously the baby boomer parents reproduced much more and faster than now.
Does anyone really think the media, Hollywood and Washington are going to campaign for young people to have more babies so there are once again 6 working taxpayers supporting each SS and medicare beneficiary, instead of 2???
I certainly don't think so.
Do you really think people will choose to die if heart bypass operations are no longer provided by Medicare? Currently, Medicare pays for Dr. Dean Ornish's lifestyle program to reverse coronary artery disease. They pay for it because it works. And the cost is only a small fraction of what it costs for bypass surgery. But it's not well known and it's not widely available across the U.S.
manaboutown
05-14-2015, 01:07 PM
Some serious welfare reform and doing away with many, many ineffective, costly and wasteful programs such as Head Start would allow for tax money to be spent on (actually returned to) those who need and deserve it such as productive folks who worked hard for many, many years, paid their taxes, and now look forward to enjoying a retirement they have earned, complete with adequate medical care.
Villages PL
05-14-2015, 01:13 PM
VPL: Perhaps I misunderstand your post but are you advocating death panels?
Well, that's another subject, in my opinion. There were so called "death panels" long before anyone started calling them death panels. Only it was done by hospitals. If an older person wanted an operation, they had to prove to the hospital, through testing, that they had a good chance for a favorable outcome. This is because hospitals didn't want too many failed operations on their record.
What I'm advocating is a choice where the patient's life is in his own hands. Call it personal responsibility if you like. And Medicare can help by paying for classes to teach people how to accomplish a favorable lifestyle outcome.
Do you really believe a heart bypass is a useless medical procedure? Not the way things are now, no. The way it is now people depend on bypass procedures to save them from themselves. But we can't afford that anymore.
Perhaps you accidentally omitted a key phrase when you keyboarded your post?
I don't claim to have all the answers, I'm just trying my best to start people thinking.
Best regards back to you.
sunnyatlast
05-14-2015, 01:19 PM
Do you really think people will choose to die if heart bypass operations are no longer provided by Medicare? Currently, Medicare pays for Dr. Dean Ornish's lifestyle program to reverse coronary artery disease. They pay for it because it works. And the cost is only a small fraction of what it costs for bypass surgery. But it's not well known and it's not widely available across the U.S.
Many people do not have TIME to do the "lifestyle program" when they're in the ER having, or are about to have, a heart attack.
olgreeneyes
05-14-2015, 01:37 PM
How would "they" determine whether you lead a healthy lifestyle? Many people have diseases that are hereditary, or just happen. Some bodies naturally make more cholesterol than others, people wtih healthy lifestyles get cancer. Who decides what the guidelines are? And I don't know whether people who haven't made good choices to start with would be good candidates for reform. How many people with lung diseases, or COPD, etc., continue to smoke?
justjim
05-14-2015, 02:26 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
As one who had five bypasses about five years ago, I wouldn't call this a useless medical procedure. I have two younger brothers and both had similar medical procedures. Of course, none have lived a perfect lifestyle but I can say all three of us were above the average.
VP, the Billionaire you reference, who is he/she. Could he/she be wrong? :ho:
CFrance
05-14-2015, 04:07 PM
As one who had five bypasses about five years ago, I wouldn't call this a useless medical procedure. I have two younger brothers and both had similar medical procedures. Of course, none have lived a perfect lifestyle but I can say all three of us were above the average.
VP, the Billionaire you reference, who is he/she. Could he/she be wrong? :ho:
Stan Druckenmiller
Stan Druckenmiller Sees (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/druckenmiller-says-rates-could-remain-near-zero-10-years)
Challenger
05-14-2015, 04:34 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
I am 77- had heart triple by pass at 66.At the time was quite slim, ran 20mi plus a week, played golf, private pilot. did not drink alcohol , never smoked. My disease is hereditary. Would you proposing that I should have had a death sentence??
Hmmmmmmmmmmmn!
ugotme
05-14-2015, 04:42 PM
Let us not forget that this "person" is a BILLIONAIRE!
Which, of course, means he/she will advocate this for you and I but can go anywhere with that kind of wealth and have these procedures.
Do as I say and not as I do !!!!
CFrance
05-14-2015, 04:48 PM
I am 77- had heart triple by pass at 66.At the time was quite slim, ran 20mi plus a week, played golf, private pilot. did not drink alcohol , never smoked. My disease is hereditary. Would you proposing that I should have had a death sentence??
Hmmmmmmmmmmmn!
Yes! That is what he is saying. OP refuses to believe any disease cannot be prevented or cured with anything other than plants. And any disease you get is your fault. It's a narrow-minded, uninformed view in my opinion.
We had a friend just like you, Challenger, whose body produced so much cholesterol he had a heart attack in his 30s despite being a runner & non smoker. This was before the benefits of statins. He was reduced to eating 0 cholesterol in his diet, and his body still manufactured high rates of cholesterol. he's alive today (67) andis able to eat more naturally thanks to statins.
Villages PL
05-14-2015, 05:59 PM
Many people do not have TIME to do the "lifestyle program" when they're in the ER having, or are about to have, a heart attack.
That's very true as that's how things work currently. But what about the stories of people waiting on a gurney with chest pains. They often keep them waiting until a bed is available and plan to do testing the following day. Someone told that story not to long ago. Was that person in danger of dying in the hospital hallway? No, I don't think so. They can give medication and stabilize the person until such time as testing can be done to see exactly what's going on. If the person came in with a heart attack in progress it might be a different story. I'm not making any judgment on that at this time.
I don't consider myself an expert and I don't claim to have all the answers, I'm just going by what I have heard and read.
Villages PL
05-14-2015, 06:28 PM
How would "they" determine whether you lead a healthy lifestyle? Many people have diseases that are hereditary, or just happen. Some bodies naturally make more cholesterol than others, people wtih healthy lifestyles get cancer. Who decides what the guidelines are? And I don't know whether people who haven't made good choices to start with would be good candidates for reform. How many people with lung diseases, or COPD, etc., continue to smoke?
It has been said that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, at least not by itself. Cholesterol in the blood has to be oxidized by free radicals to create "toxic LDL". This supposedly wouldn't happen with a diet high in antioxidants, which would likely be the opposite of a high protein diet. As an anecdote, I had a neighbor in The Villages who said her total cholesterol had been up to 300 for years and she had no sign of heart disease.
As far as degenerative diseases being hereditary, sometimes they appear to be but what is often inherited are poor lifestyle habits. People often follow family traditions and habits. In another discussion, not to long ago, I proved that genes can be turned on and off. "Genes are not our destiny." (From the book "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce Lipton.)
dbussone
05-14-2015, 07:03 PM
It has been said that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, at least not by itself. Cholesterol in the blood has to be oxidized by free radicals to create "toxic LDL". This supposedly wouldn't happen with a diet high in antioxidants, which would likely be the opposite of a high protein diet. As an anecdote, I had a neighbor in The Villages who said her total cholesterol had been up to 300 for years and she had no sign of heart disease.
As far as degenerative diseases being hereditary, sometimes they appear to be but what is often inherited are poor lifestyle habits. People often follow family traditions and habits. In another discussion, not to long ago, I proved that genes can be turned on and off. "Genes are not our destiny." (From the book "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce Lipton.)
Here's a link to an interesting article about a genetic fault in an Italian family. Despite a high fat diet and high cholesterol, they have a specific gene that overcomes the effect of the cholesterol.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-17/news/mn-51362_1_artery-disease
gomoho
05-14-2015, 07:06 PM
Villages Pl - from what I know of you and your posts I think I can safely assume you live a perfectly healthy lifestyle - so, I'm curious if this didn't produce the results you expect and you need a bypass are you going to turn it down because you obviously didn't do something right? I think there are a whole lot of other areas where the personal responsibility you speak of might make a huge difference in what funds were available for folks that have worked hard all their lives and may need some medical help in their older years. Maybe it's time to lighten up and live and let live.
graciegirl
05-14-2015, 07:21 PM
It has been said that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, at least not by itself. Cholesterol in the blood has to be oxidized by free radicals to create "toxic LDL". This supposedly wouldn't happen with a diet high in antioxidants, which would likely be the opposite of a high protein diet. As an anecdote, I had a neighbor in The Villages who said her total cholesterol had been up to 300 for years and she had no sign of heart disease.
As far as degenerative diseases being hereditary, sometimes they appear to be but what is often inherited are poor lifestyle habits. People often follow family traditions and habits. In another discussion, not to long ago, I proved that genes can be turned on and off. "Genes are not our destiny." (From the book "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce Lipton.)
Could you validate these strange statements?
I think you don't really understand the basics of genetics. It is very complex.
And read this about Bruce Lipton. https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-bruce-lipton-and-the-biology-of-belief.1003/
DougB
05-14-2015, 07:27 PM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
Get back to us when you need a bypass and we can discuss it.
Polar Bear
05-14-2015, 11:21 PM
Every time I think health-related topics can't get any sillier...
dbussone
05-15-2015, 07:11 AM
Could you validate these strange statements?
I think you don't really understand the basics of genetics. It is very complex.
And read this about Bruce Lipton. https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-bruce-lipton-and-the-biology-of-belief.1003/
Your request and comment are on target for the poster. I think the poster comes up with pseudo-scientific sounding articles that he believes support his position. Faced with a question he doesn't understand or like, he deflects by raising another topic or by responding to your question with a question.
rockyisle
05-15-2015, 07:20 AM
By not doing heart bypass operations for many people with clogged arteries, you'll solve the aging population "problem" by sentencing them die within a couple of weeks. Very efficient method.
Birth rate is the other factor involved. Obviously the baby boomer parents reproduced much more and faster than now.
Does anyone really think the media, Hollywood and Washington are going to campaign for young people to have more babies so there are once again 6 working taxpayers supporting each SS and medicare beneficiary, instead of 2???
I certainly don't think so.
It's feels like that hidden agenda is already in place. I see women's reproductive rights being stripped away each year. Until this moment, it really had not dawned on me that this just might be the unspoken reason. Hmmmm
graciegirl
05-15-2015, 07:48 AM
Can you give some (non-political) ideas on how to solve this problem?
I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
What happened to the original first question with the link to the rich guy?
Also, fourteen people messaged me that I missed a whole discussion about britches or bloomers that was deleted. Boy you can't even go out to dinner around here or you'll miss something good.
Villager Joyce
05-15-2015, 08:03 AM
What happened to the original first question with the link to the rich guy?
Also, fourteen people messaged me that I missed a whole discussion about britches or bloomers that was deleted. Boy you can't even go out to dinner around here or you'll miss something good.
I was part of that. In fact, it was my britches being discussed. :pepper2: I didn't think I could get away with saying pompous :cus:, but I had to try. Let me know when you are going out and I will go off line til you get back.
dbussone
05-15-2015, 08:32 AM
What happened to the original first question with the link to the rich guy?
Also, fourteen people messaged me that I missed a whole discussion about britches or bloomers that was deleted. Boy you can't even go out to dinner around here or you'll miss something good.
I took a friend to Tampa on Tuesday. Boy did I miss some exciting posts. I know what you mean
Jayhawk
05-15-2015, 08:53 AM
I was part of that. In fact, it was my britches being discussed. :pepper2: I didn't think I could get away with saying pompous :cus:, but I had to try. Let me know when you are going out and I will go off line til you get back.
Yep. Censored.
:cus::cus::cus::cus::cus:
CFrance
05-15-2015, 09:11 AM
What happened to the original first question with the link to the rich guy?
Also, fourteen people messaged me that I missed a whole discussion about britches or bloomers that was deleted. Boy you can't even go out to dinner around here or you'll miss something good.
See post #11. I don't think OP ever gave a link to the article, but I googled billionaire sees, blah, blah, blah, and it came right up. My guess is that OP didn't give the link because the billionaire's point was not about health, but about finances. OP was using it as a springboard back into his own agenda.
dbussone
05-15-2015, 09:47 AM
See post #11. I don't think OP ever gave a link to the article, but I googled billionaire sees, blah, blah, blah, and it came right up. My guess is that OP didn't give the link because the billionaire's point was not about health, but about finances. OP was using it as a springboard back into his own agenda.
One oh the OPs typical ploys.
KayakerNC
05-15-2015, 12:08 PM
I didn't think I could get away with saying pompous :cus:, but I had to try.
Pompous :cus: is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.
CFrance
05-15-2015, 12:14 PM
Pompous :cus: is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.
It's certainly indicative of a lack of regard for humanity.
tcxr750
05-15-2015, 12:16 PM
Does "tough love" include no more second trips to the buffet at Golden Corral or the Casino?
Villager Joyce
05-15-2015, 12:30 PM
Pompous :cus: is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.
He has never said this or implied this, but I find this mentality very frightening. is there an age when medical treatment is withheld because you don't have enough years left to justify the financial drain on society or whatever you have is incurable.Let me repeat, no one on this forum has suggesteD this.
justjim
05-15-2015, 02:39 PM
There are many medical procedures that some believe are not necessary that could save millions of dollars. However, who is going to determine what procedure is necessary and what is not? Most think it should be YOUR DOCTOR and it would be difficult to argue different. For example, millions are spent to keep Cancer patients alive when there is little chance of recovery. Statistically this can be proven.
It's complicated with no easy answers IMHO and I might add---a very slippery slope.
KayakerNC
05-15-2015, 02:54 PM
He has never said this or implied this, but I find this mentality very frightening. is there an age when medical treatment is withheld because you don't have enough years left to justify the financial drain on society or whatever you have is incurable.Let me repeat, no one on this forum has suggesteD this.
Really?
From the opening post:
"I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices."
Just what is it that you think he is suggesting?
Villages PL
05-15-2015, 03:00 PM
As one who had five bypasses about five years ago, I wouldn't call this a useless medical procedure. I have two younger brothers and both had similar medical procedures. Of course, none have lived a perfect lifestyle but I can say all three of us were above the average.
VP, the Billionaire you reference, who is he/she. Could he/she be wrong? :ho:
Here's a link with the story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-druckenmiller-sees-massive-problem-130107781.html;_ylt=AwrC0COgUVZVnmcAvSTQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--
I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.
Could he be wrong? I suppose so.
I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?
Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.
Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?
Villager Joyce
05-15-2015, 03:10 PM
Really?
From the opening post:
"I'll start the discussion with this suggestion: One idea might be called "tough love". No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices."
Just what is it that you think he is suggesting?
You are correct. I guess I couldn't believe a human being would say such a thing so I couldnt see the words. That is exactly what he said and believes. Tough love my behind. Arrogant, pompous.
Villages PL
05-15-2015, 03:45 PM
I am 77- had heart triple by pass at 66.At the time was quite slim, ran 20mi plus a week, played golf, private pilot. did not drink alcohol , never smoked. My disease is hereditary. Would you proposing that I should have had a death sentence??
Hmmmmmmmmmmmn!
It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?
outlaw
05-15-2015, 03:51 PM
It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?
66-11=55. He has 55 more years before he'll need another bypass....
asianthree
05-15-2015, 03:52 PM
Do you really think people will choose to die if heart bypass operations are no longer provided by Medicare? Currently, Medicare pays for Dr. Dean Ornish's lifestyle program to reverse coronary artery disease. They pay for it because it works. And the cost is only a small fraction of what it costs for bypass surgery. But it's not well known and it's not widely available across the U.S.
So this dr can open up a 100% occluded LAD. Instead of a bypass.
dbussone
05-15-2015, 04:04 PM
Here's a link with the story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-druckenmiller-sees-massive-problem-130107781.html;_ylt=AwrC0COgUVZVnmcAvSTQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--
I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.
Could he be wrong? I suppose so.
I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?
Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.
Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?
I believe justjim meant he had one operation which involved 5 coronary artery bypasses during that one surgical case.
CFrance
05-15-2015, 04:09 PM
Here's a link with the story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-druckenmiller-sees-massive-problem-130107781.html;_ylt=AwrC0COgUVZVnmcAvSTQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--
I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.
Could he be wrong? I suppose so.
I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?
Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.
Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?
Obviously it was one operation, five arteries bypassed. This is why sometimes your medical knowledge is questionable. If you are so widely read on health issues, you would have known this. What if you decided someone should die because he needed five bypass surgeries, when in fact he only needed one?
Challenger
05-15-2015, 04:15 PM
It has been 11 years since your bypass operation and you are doing well I hope. If it's genetic and beyond your control, how did you manage to survive for 11 years without your arteries clogging up again?
Statins - Toatal Cholesterol now under 120 LDL about 70. So far my Docs are positive about my good health. Let's hope they are correct. For another poster I am 77 not 66. Operation was 11 years ago. Blood pressure averages 115/ 80!! Non treatment would have been a death sentence. In fact I worked for 6 more years(CEO) and have served in assisting 6 charities including a medical mission(non religious) to Mexico.. I feel that I still have some good to offer.
asianthree
05-15-2015, 04:19 PM
Here's a link with the story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/stan-druckenmiller-sees-massive-problem-130107781.html;_ylt=AwrC0COgUVZVnmcAvSTQtDMD;_ylu= X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYw Nzcg--
I don't know much about him, only that he sees a massive problem coming in 15 years.
Could he be wrong? I suppose so.
I never heard of anyone having 5 bypass operations. Was that over a 5 year period? Or 10 years? More? And I wonder if your doctor had any suggestions other than doing the operation over and over. Were you ever asked about diet, exercise and stress control? Did the doctor say it's genetic?
Dr. Dean Ornish stated in one of his books that some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some are born with only a few. If a person has many receptors then processing dietary cholesterol is quicker and more efficient. Few receptors could cause high blood cholesterol. In that case, where there are few receptors and high cholesterol, a much more careful diet would be required. Also, stress can be a factor so he recommends stress control and moderate exercise.
Have you gotten to the point where you don't expect you will need anymore bypass operations? If so, what has changed to bring that about?
Bypass surgery has been reduced by 60% due to stents. Most doctors will not do a single bypass, that is a sit and wait, even if your IF sucks. If you have a four bypass with 80 % blockage! you won't have enough time to read this book. And believe it or not there are more reasons for open heart than a bad diet.
Villages PL
05-15-2015, 04:28 PM
Here's a link to an interesting article about a genetic fault in an Italian family. Despite a high fat diet and high cholesterol, they have a specific gene that overcomes the effect of the cholesterol.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-17/news/mn-51362_1_artery-disease
If I'm not mistaken, that story is about 20 years old (10-17-94). I seem to remember when it first came out; it was very exciting news. I began to wonder if my family might have the same gene. My extended family (as I was growing up) was very large and I never heard of anyone having heart disease. Cancer, yes, but not heart disease.
I'm pretty sure I can eat all the meat, butter and eggs etc that I want without having to worry about heart disease. But what about cancer? According to research information from the China study, as well as other large scale studies, animal protein promotes cancer. And cancer is exactly what I have a family history of.
So, back to your story, what happened? If transferring this special gene was going to work, it should have worked by now.
graciegirl
05-15-2015, 04:36 PM
If I'm not mistaken, that story is about 20 years old (10-17-94). I seem to remember when it first came out; it was very exciting news. I began to wonder if my family might have the same gene. My extended family (as I was growing up) was very large and I never heard of anyone having heart disease. Cancer, yes, but not heart disease.
I'm pretty sure I can eat all the meat, butter and eggs etc that I want without having to worry about heart disease. But what about cancer? According to research information from the China study, as well as other large scale studies, animal protein promotes cancer. And cancer is exactly what I have a family history of.
So, back to your story, what happened? If transferring this special gene was going to work, it should have worked by now.
Gene lines are not kept pure with intermarriage. They don't strengthen unless someone marries another with corresponding genetic components.
In dogs that is called breeding for certain goals.
Villages PL
05-15-2015, 04:42 PM
Villages Pl - from what I know of you and your posts I think I can safely assume you live a perfectly healthy lifestyle - so, I'm curious if this didn't produce the results you expect and you need a bypass are you going to turn it down because you obviously didn't do something right? I think there are a whole lot of other areas where the personal responsibility you speak of might make a huge difference in what funds were available for folks that have worked hard all their lives and may need some medical help in their older years. Maybe it's time to lighten up and live and let live.
If you know of a whole lot of other areas where personal responsibility might make a huge difference, please let us all in on it. Don't keep all those good ideas to yourself. We need good ideas!
graciegirl
05-15-2015, 04:49 PM
If you know of a whole lot of other areas where personal responsibility might make a huge difference, please let us all in on it. Don't keep all those good ideas to yourself. We need good ideas!
In our family this would be an example of personal responsibility; If the doctor said to you that you have a history of colon cancer, you should have a colonoscopy, you would not ignore him.
If the doctor said that frequent urination is often a symptom of aging but could be a symptom of testicular cancer and it would be wise to have more tests, then you have more tests.
If the doctor suggests that you wear a Holter Monitor for 24 hours because he hears an unusual rythem, you wear a Holter Monitor.
If your doctor says that your magnesium is low and that adding leafy greens and fish into your diet would help, you add leafy greens and fish to your diet.
Barefoot
05-15-2015, 05:05 PM
No more useless medical procedures for lifestyle diseases such as heart bypass operations for coronary artery disease. This is a huge expense and is only one of many. Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent every year for diseases that are caused by poor lifestyle choices.
OP refuses to believe any disease cannot be prevented or cured with anything other than plants. And any disease you get is your fault. It's a narrow-minded, uninformed view in my opinion.
I think the poster comes up with pseudo-scientific sounding articles that he believes support his position. Faced with a question he doesn't understand or like, he deflects by raising another topic or by responding to your question with a question.
Pompous :cus: is much too mild.
Someone who advocates withholding medical procedures from a patient who hasn't followed his "anointed" diet is beneath contempt.
I join you in your comments.
The OP has suggested in previous threads that medical intervention should be withheld for people who don't adhere to his idea of an appropriate lifestyle.
Death Panels? What a barbaric suggestion.
asianthree
05-15-2015, 06:21 PM
I join you in your comments.
The OP has suggested in previous threads that medical intervention should be withheld for people who don't adhere to his idea of an appropriate lifestyle.
Death Panels? What a barbaric suggestion.
Maybe op is looking to improve better tee times, less wait in restaurants and more preowned homes. Our oldest has cholesterol over 350. Dr said change his diet. He has been veggie head for 30 years with fresh salmon twice a week. Weight less than 130 and in summers walks more than 600 miles thru the wild of Alaska. Find a fix for that
Cisco Kid
05-15-2015, 07:02 PM
The duck says what ?
dbussone
05-15-2015, 07:36 PM
The duck says what ?
Exactly.
Villages PL
05-16-2015, 10:09 AM
I am 77- had heart triple by pass at 66.At the time was quite slim, ran 20mi plus a week, played golf, private pilot. did not drink alcohol , never smoked. My disease is hereditary. Would you proposing that I should have had a death sentence??
Hmmmmmmmmmmmn!
I don't think it would have been a death sentence. If this program had been in place back then, when you were 66, I assume there would have been safeguards in place. There would be massive education to the public and warnings to get tested for heart disease. So you go to get tested and your doctor certifies your condition as "genetic". He then gives you a card to carry in your wallet. If you were to get a heart attack while out shopping, or wherever, that card would be like a coupon entitling you to one free bypass operation. See, there's no need to worry. :)
Barefoot
05-16-2015, 10:42 AM
There would be massive education to the public and warnings to get tested for heart disease. So you go to get tested and your doctor certifies your condition as "genetic". He then gives you a card to carry in your wallet. If you were to get a heart attack while out shopping, or wherever, that card would be like a coupon entitling you to one free bypass operation. See, there's no need to worry. :)
What a barbaric concept! No need to worry? :boom:
Without a card, a person is refused critical medical treatment?
DougB
05-16-2015, 11:25 AM
I don't think it would have been a death sentence. If this program had been in place back then, when you were 66, I assume there would have been safeguards in place. There would be massive education to the public and warnings to get tested for heart disease. So you go to get tested and your doctor certifies your condition as "genetic". He then gives you a card to carry in your wallet. If you were to get a heart attack while out shopping, or wherever, that card would be like a coupon entitling you to one free bypass operation. See, there's no need to worry. :)
Everything really all comes down to genetics. Did you know that if your parents never had any children, there is a 100% chance you wouldn't have any either?
Villages PL
05-16-2015, 12:00 PM
Everything really all comes down to genetics. Did you know that if your parents never had any children, there is a 100% chance you wouldn't have any either?
I didn't know that! :) I guess that explains why there are no baby dinosaurs walking around.
Villages PL
05-16-2015, 12:09 PM
What a barbaric concept! No need to worry? :boom:
Without a card, a person is refused critical medical treatment?
No, they are not refused. If they have private insurance coverage or money to pay for the operation, they can get it. Those who can't pay (for non-genetic heart disease) wouldn't be able to run Medicare & Medicaid bankrupt because they refuse to follow a healthy lifestyle. :boom:
Barefoot
05-16-2015, 12:18 PM
No, they are not refused. If they have private insurance coverage or money to pay for the operation, they can get it.
And if they don't have money or private insurance, they're thrown out on the street to die?
You may be physically healthy as you have reminded us again and again, but your moral compass is sadly broken!
dbussone
05-16-2015, 02:55 PM
No, they are not refused. If they have private insurance coverage or money to pay for the operation, they can get it. Those who can't pay (for non-genetic heart disease) wouldn't be able to run Medicare & Medicaid bankrupt because they refuse to follow a healthy lifestyle. :boom:
This is such a pile of cow patty. If you truly believe this, and it came to pass, I guarantee you it would happen to you at some point - who knows from what. At that time you would not likely be able to even afford the down payment for the associated hospital bill. So you better have your DNR all lined up.
Here's a link you might enjoy from the Mayo Clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mental-illness/in-depth/mental-health-providers/ART-20045530
CFrance
05-16-2015, 03:23 PM
No, they are not refused. If they have private insurance coverage or money to pay for the operation, they can get it. Those who can't pay (for non-genetic heart disease) wouldn't be able to run Medicare & Medicaid bankrupt because they refuse to follow a healthy lifestyle. :boom:
You're digging yourself in even deeper in the lack of regard for humanity department. So... if I can't afford private health insurance, I die? The rich get to live an unhealthy lifestyle but the poor don't???
dbussone
05-16-2015, 04:29 PM
I was just reading a thread about dogs that need adoptive homes. How much more favorable that seems to me than proposing death to someone who needs medical care. Once again, the dog wins over an inhumane narcissistic idiot.
sunnyatlast
05-16-2015, 04:40 PM
I wish the legal term/charge of "Depraved Indifference" were used more in our society's vocabulary with regard to the rest of humanity other than one's SELF.
The attitude here is a prime example of Depraved Indifference.
We need to loudly, publicly REJECT and SHUN such attitude and ignorance toward others!
Not knowing that 5 heart bypasses were probably done at one time in a single operation, rather than in 5 different "too-costly" surgeries whose need was "self-induced" as was accused earlier, is pretty damn ignorant.
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