Please educate me....

[Peggy D]

Why is it that bicyclists feel the rules of the road do not apply to them, or am I
In the wrong? More often than not I see them not yielding to traffic or stopping at stop signs. Riding two and three abreast so they can talk to their "riding buddies" with no regard to other traffic behind them.

Today we encountered one. He was riding down the middle of the street. My hubby honked the horn to let him know we were behind him. He then moved to the LEFT. And gave hubby a bunch of lip!

Where does the "king Of The Road". Attitude come from?

[NYGUY]

....Where does the "king Of The Road". Attitude come from?

It comes from laws being passed to protect them, which some took to mean "they are in charge"....many protected groups adopt this attitude.

[Sandtrap328]

It comes from laws being passed to protect them, which some took to mean "they are in charge"....many protected groups adopt this attitude.

You are so right! Have you noticed how the sandhill cranes think they own the golf courses? :beer3:

[sunnyatlast]

Why is it that bicyclists feel the rules of the road do not apply to them, or am I
In the wrong? More often than not I see them not yielding to traffic or stopping at stop signs. Riding two and three abreast so they can talk to their "riding buddies" with no regard to other traffic behind them.

Today we encountered one. He was riding down the middle of the street. My hubby honked the horn to let him know we were behind him. He then moved to the LEFT. And gave hubby a bunch of lip!

Where does the "king Of The Road". Attitude come from?

They are going to "heal the planet" and you in your car are destroying it.

They are more fit and thinner than you "lazy" drivers.

They "have a right" to do whatever they want in front of or beside you.

They are holier than you.

They'll make you sorry you ever dared to question any of it on here.

[Shimpy]

The other day on St. Charles place I passed a bike in my golf cart giving him the required 3' or more of clearance. He then immediately got behind me within 18" of my bumper. I know what he was doing, drafting me to ride without the wind. This was the second time this has happened in the same area and suspect the same rider. I'm sure if I didn't give him 3 feet of clearance he would have had a fit.

[tommy steam]

Let's hear what the bike riders have to say about this.

[John_W]

If you want to see that you're not alone, a search of this site will provide 34 threads about bicycle riders, with most in the negative. Here's a link TOTV - Search Results (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/search.php?searchid=10573125)

[dirtbanker]

"Lance Armstrong Wannabes", silly outfits for silly people.
3' by my judgement might be different than theirs...
If they truly want to share the road they should have to purchase license and plates. In order to get the license they should be tested. Once licensed the police can write them tickets for rolling stops, tailgating golf carts, DWI, etc.

[Villager Audio Video]

"Lance Armstrong Wannabes", silly outfits for silly people.

Really?.....

[Topspinmo]

I stay clear of any cycler's, pedal pushers, motor scooters, motorcycles, Especially those funny lay down pedal pushing 3 wheel bikes that you can only see the Flag. I give them at least 15 foot so I can stop if they topple over in front of me, more on BV. IF they are biking down BV I go way over in the left lane if I want to pass and only on straight part of the roads. I never pass them in the round a bouts.

[Paper1]

Let's hear what the bike riders have to say about this.
I give up. I'm a bicycle rider and promise I won't walk on your lawn. I ride a lot and yes I roll through some stop signs if there is nothing coming but that is because I am more of a hinderence to cars if I stop and un-clip. I read all the time where bike riders are running stop signs, are they really pulling out in front of cars? On Morse and Bueni Vista I hung the white line in right lane so not to slow down fellow Villagers when I am legally entitled to the whole lane and can't remember a ride when I didn't have someone go by me closer than 18". To my golf cart friend, you're not going to get hurt if that bicycle rider drafting on you hits your cart although if someone was indeed that close it was rude. How about a thread where bike riders can criticize car drivers?

[ducati1974]

As Paper1 said when we are biking on the four lane roads (such as Buena Vista & Morse) within The Villages we are supposed to "take the lane" as opposed to riding on the far right side of the lane. The reason for this is simple, it is to prevent cars from trying to "share" the lane with us- which is very dangerous and has even happened to me when I'm in the middle of the lane. Cars should move to the other lane to pass us. Yes, sometimes we are in the left lane- we have to abide by the same rule as cars to make a left turn. Unfortunately many car drivers are unaware that we are entitled to own the lane and frequently I get honked at or buzzed. It would be nice if there was a sign on the roads to let drivers know about this. Call the Sheriff's office if you don't believe what Im saying.
Chill!

[Miles42]

How about a thread where no one is a critic of another's life style choices. Life is short, lay back and enjoy what ever time you have left of it.

[Happydaz]

This is a retirement community and many people are involved in different exercise programs. My wife enjoys walking every morning but she has to watch out for the occasional irate golf cart driver. Even though she and her friend walk single file, facing traffic, they often get yelled out for being on the path, some yell out "get off our path!" Others like to ride our bicycles and yes, as been said here most of us are thin and in great shape(sorry). Some automobile drivers do not like sharing the road with bicyclists, just read the vitriolic comments on this thread. Why not just let the exercisers be? We do need to share your cart paths and roads, and yes, we do slow you down, but The Villages is a place for us older folk and we are retired. What's the rush? Where are you going? Be happy. Live and let live.

[outlaw]

I give up. I'm a bicycle rider and promise I won't walk on your lawn. I ride a lot and yes I roll through some stop signs if there is nothing coming but that is because I am more of a hinderence to cars if I stop and un-clip. I read all the time where bike riders are running stop signs, are they really pulling out in front of cars? On Morse and Bueni Vista I hung the white line in right lane so not to slow down fellow Villagers when I am legally entitled to the whole lane and can't remember a ride when I didn't have someone go by me closer than 18". To my golf cart friend, you're not going to get hurt if that bicycle rider drafting on you hits your cart although if someone was indeed that close it was rude. How about a thread where bike riders can criticize car drivers?

I also ride. I don't know where you get this idea that you are legally entitled to the whole lane. Florida law is clear about this. You are required to ride as far to the right of the road as safely as possible. That does not entitle you to the whole lane.

[tomwed]

Riding a bike anywhere is a calculated risk. Wearing a helmet reduces the risk tremendously. I think staying on the paths also reduces the risk.

Anywhere I bike in the villages, street, main road or path seems quite a bit safer than almost anywhere I biked in New Jersey.

If you are not an experienced rider find a bike club and get some advice. Don't try to figure it out on your own.

[outlaw]

This is a retirement community and many people are involved in different exercise programs. My wife enjoys walking every morning but she has to watch out for the occasional irate golf cart driver. Even though she and her friend walk single file, facing traffic, they often get yelled out for being on the path, some yell out "get off our path!" Others like to ride our bicycles and yes, as been said here most of us are thin and in great shape(sorry). Some automobile drivers do not like sharing the road with bicyclists, just read the vitriolic comments on this thread. Why not just let the exercisers be? We do need to share your cart paths and roads, and yes, we do slow you down, but The Villages is a place for us older folk and we are retired. What's the rush? Where are you going? Be happy. Live and let live.

I find that very hard to believe. My wife and I also walk on the MMP. We have never had an encounter like you describe with a cart driver. Of course, we move to the edge of the path whenever a cart is approaching, and we always yield to carts.

[tomwed]

I also ride. I don't know where you get this idea that you are legally entitled to the whole lane. Florida law is clear about this. You are required to ride as far to the right of the road as safely as possible. That does not entitle you to the whole lane.
(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

[outlaw]

As Paper1 said when we are biking on the four lane roads (such as Buena Vista & Morse) within The Villages we are supposed to "take the lane" as opposed to riding on the far right side of the lane. The reason for this is simple, it is to prevent cars from trying to "share" the lane with us- which is very dangerous and has even happened to me when I'm in the middle of the lane. Cars should move to the other lane to pass us. Yes, sometimes we are in the left lane- we have to abide by the same rule as cars to make a left turn. Unfortunately many car drivers are unaware that we are entitled to own the lane and frequently I get honked at or buzzed. It would be nice if there was a sign on the roads to let drivers know about this. Call the Sheriff's office if you don't believe what Im saying.
Chill!

According to Florida law, you are supposed to stay as far to the right as safely as possible.

[Happydaz]

Quote a post then attack it. Life is too short. Enjoy it.

[outlaw]

This idea that you "own the lane" is why you have so many close calls with irate motorists. You can "take the lane" if you want, but expect many more close encounters. You are playing chicken with a 4000 pound vehicle.

[HimandMe]

Actually, this thread is quite enlightening. We haven't taken our bikes out for several years and looked forward to getting out again when we got our new house in The Villages. Reading through the posts has been educational, helpful. I do hope type A's don't get too stressed with confrontation and opposing views. It's all part of the game.

[looneycat]

Quote a post then attack it. Life is too short. Enjoy it.

didn't you, effectively, just do the same thing? :D

[graciegirl]

didn't you, effectively, just do the same thing? :D

Looney. For a long time I let your enchanting good looks overshadow the fact that you are a smart guy.

[tomwed]

According to Florida law, you are supposed to stay as far to the right as safely as possible.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
In my opinion this is the "rub". A biker will say that there is not enough room in the lane on BV for a bike and a car so they are entitled to the center of the lane. And a motorist will say that they can safely fit their car between a bike and curb on the right on BV so they are not entitled to the lane.

You don't want to be "rubbed" by a car or clipped by a mirror.

[tuccillo]

It would be worthwhile to familiarize yourself with the law as it applies to bicycles. I will try to make a couple of points that may clarify things a bit.

You should consider bicycles to be slow moving cars. Bicycles are allowed to occupy an entire lane and it is safer to do so because often a car and a bicycle cannot safely share a lane. As a passing vehicle, it is your responsibility to pass the slower moving vehicle in a safe and lawful manner. On a four lane road, such as Buena Vista or Morse, this involves moving into the passing lane. On a two-lane road, this involves waiting until it is safe to do so and moving into the left hand lane. Double solid lines are no-passing areas - please wait till it is safe, and lawful, to pass on two-lane roads. Cyclists, in general, do not like to hug the right hand side of a lane as there is a lot of debris that can cause a flat tire. Please don't assume that cyclists will move to the extreme right hand side of a lane so that you can squeeze by without changing lanes or moving into the left hand lane on a two-lane road. You must give cyclists 3 feet of clearance, by law.

While I am sure that you will see some cyclists violate some rules of the road, I can assure you that cars also violate the rules of the road and there are a lot more cars than cyclists. It behooves you to drive carefully.

Cyclists will often "roll through stop signs" when it is clear. Many cyclists use "clip-in" pedals (sort of like a ski binding). It really make no sense to unclip, come to a complete stop, then clip back in if there is no traffic. When I say "roll through stop signs", it is typically at about 5 mph. Many cars do the exact same thing. It is what it is.

Regarding blowing your horn at a cyclist, I generally recommend that you don't do this unless there is a truly compelling reason to do so. I can assure you that we know who is behind us. Blowing a horn usually just startles cyclists. Blowing your horn at a slower moving car is rude. Rude behavior may be met with a reaction. It is what it is. If you are blowing the horn to suggest that the cyclist is in your way then I recommend you research the rules of the road - cyclists are entitled to use the roads and it is up to you to pass when it is safe to do so.

Lastly, you essentially suggested that cyclists are slowing you and other traffic down. The vast majority of cyclists try to be stay out of the way of cars, for obvious reasons. In those instances where you are caught behind a cyclist, just take a deep breath and relax until the opportunity to safely pass presents itself. Again, bicycles are really just slow moving cars that you need to share the road with. When I am driving and see a cyclist, I go out of my way to give them the widest possible berth. Besides being the safe thing to do, it is also a matter of courtesy.

Why is it that bicyclists feel the rules of the road do not apply to them, or am I
In the wrong? More often than not I see them not yielding to traffic or stopping at stop signs. Riding two and three abreast so they can talk to their "riding buddies" with no regard to other traffic behind them.

Today we encountered one. He was riding down the middle of the street. My hubby honked the horn to let him know we were behind him. He then moved to the LEFT. And gave hubby a bunch of lip!

Where does the "king Of The Road". Attitude come from?

[tuccillo]

Feel free to write your representatives about changing the law. Until then, the law is what it is.

Biking clothes are functional. Padded shorts for comfort in the saddle and brightly colored jerseys for improved visibility. No different than any other sport.

3' is 3'. Violate the law at your own peril.

"Lance Armstrong Wannabes", silly outfits for silly people.
3' by my judgement might be different than theirs...
If they truly want to share the road they should have to purchase license and plates. In order to get the license they should be tested. Once licensed the police can write them tickets for rolling stops, tailgating golf carts, DWI, etc.

[tuccillo]

For cyclists everywhere, I thank you and applaud your attitude that we are all just sharing the roads in our beautiful community.

I stay clear of any cycler's, pedal pushers, motor scooters, motorcycles, Especially those funny lay down pedal pushing 3 wheel bikes that you can only see the Flag. I give them at least 15 foot so I can stop if they topple over in front of me, more on BV. IF they are biking down BV I go way over in the left lane if I want to pass and only on straight part of the roads. I never pass them in the round a bouts.

[TheVillageChicken]

According to Florida law, you are supposed to stay as far to the right as safely as possible.

That is not true. The law does not say "possible". It says "practicable". In this context, there is a big difference.

[outlaw]

Feel free to write your representatives about changing the law. Until then, the law is what it is.

Biking clothes are functional. Padded shorts for comfort in the saddle and brightly colored jerseys for improved visibility. No different than any other sport.

3' is 3'. Violate the law at your own peril.

See. That's the biker attitude that gets them killed. Who in their right mind is going to pick a fight with Mike Tyson. That's what many bikers do with automobiles. What satisfaction does the biker have knowing that the driver that just killed or maimed him is going to be in trouble? Do what you want. I'm going to give the motorist as much space as possible. More often than not, they respond in kind by giving me plenty of room.

[dbussone]

For cyclists everywhere, I thank you and applaud your attitude that we are all just sharing the roads in our beautiful community.

Amen to that. I'm definitely a type A, but I have no interest in harming anyone. On Saturday my wife and I were out for a ride. A gentleman in a recumbent low riding 3 wheeler approached a merge point in front of me on Pinellas. I slowed down to let him into the roadway from the side cart/bike lane. He waved to me as he safely made the transition. When he successfully transitioned back into the side lane he waved again. I had difficulty seeing him but my wife said he mouthed "thank you" as we passed. It's always nice to do the right thing. Besides, where are we rushing to here in TV - the 3 PM seating at BoneFish?

[outlaw]

That is not true. The law does not say "possible". It says "practicable". In this context, there is a big difference.

What is the difference in this context?

[tuccillo]

I have seen a police department video that makes that suggestion. Bike clubs also suggest "owning the lane" under certain circumstances. The classic example is a two-lane road with a curve and double solid lines. Without "owning the lane", a car may attempt to pass you, illegally, by only partially using the left hand lane. If a car from the other direction suddenly appears you may be squeezed off the road or clipped by the passing car as he attempts to avoid a head-on collision. By the "owning the road", the passing car will often wait until a straightaway, and it is legal to pass, since they would have to fully move into the left hand lane. I have seen this happen more times than you would believe. Most experienced cyclists will move into the middle of the lane on a two-lane road around curves because to do otherwise is dangerous as there are too many drivers who violate the law.

I can assure you that nobody wants to play chicken with cars. To the contrary, the concept of "owning the road" is motivated by increasing safety. Any motorist that becoming "irate" about sharing the road with cyclists is a hazard to themselves and everyone else they share the road with. Unfortunate by true.

This idea that you "own the lane" is why you have so many close calls with irate motorists. You can "take the lane" if you want, but expect many more close encounters. You are playing chicken with a 4000 pound vehicle.

[tuccillo]

Sigh ....

The original poster said the following:

3' by my judgement might be different than theirs...

I am simply responding to his assertion that there are "different" definitions of 3' and the suggestion that he doesn't really care what the law says.

I don't know any cyclists who pick fights with cars - not sure where you got that from.

See. That's the biker attitude that gets them killed. Who in their right mind is going to pick a fight with Mike Tyson. That's what many bikers do with automobiles. What satisfaction does the biker have knowing that the driver that just killed or maimed him is going to be in trouble? Do what you want. I'm going to give the motorist as much space as possible. More often than not, they respond in kind by giving me plenty of room.

[tomwed]

See. That's the biker attitude that gets them killed. Who in their right mind is going to pick a fight with Mike Tyson. That's what many bikers do with automobiles. What satisfaction does the biker have knowing that the driver that just killed or maimed him is going to be in trouble? Do what you want. I'm going to give the motorist as much space as possible. More often than not, they respond in kind by giving me plenty of room.
I don't know if I see it your way. When you bike in the middle of the lane the car behind you might beep or curse you out but they won't run you over on purpose.
When you hug the curb the driver will pass you on the left when there is not quite enough room and that's when you could get clipped, especially if there is a bottle or some other obstacle near the curb and you have nowhere to swerve but left.
If you biked in traffic for any length of time you know what I mean. The rest of you will have to guess what it's like.

[TheVillageChicken]

What is the difference in this context?

Let's use a couple of analogies.

There is a 75 mph wind at your back. Now walk as close to the edge of the Grand Canyon as practicable. Good Job. Now walk as close to the edge as possible.


There is a ferocious pit bull on a chain. Walk as close as practicable. Now walk as close as possible.

If someone rode their bike as far right as possible, their tire would be on the exact edge of the road. The statute says "practicable".

[PennBF]

I know what you all mean. There is the biker who feel some pride in riding in traffic and even more annoying is the walker who brags that he/she can walk 5-10 miles a day but never seem to make it to the NY Marathon. If you talk to or are a marathon runner you appreciate following great safety rules, being aware of where you are running or walking and not "feeling special". It appears that both amateur Bikers and Walkers have a sense of "entitlement" while SERIOUS competitors in these programs are fun to be around. :(

[tuccillo]

I wish the administrator would remove these sorts of posts by Trolls. You are adding nothing to the discussion.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]



I know what you all mean. There is the biker who feel some pride in riding in traffic and even more annoying is the walker who brags that he/she can walk 5-10 miles a day but never seem to make it to the NY Marathon. If you talk to or are a marathon runner you appreciate following great safety rules, being aware of where you are running or walking and not "feeling special". It appears that both amateur Bikers and Walkers have a sense of "entitlement" while SERIOUS competitors in these programs are fun to be around. :(

[outlaw]

I have seen a police department video that makes that suggestion. Bike clubs also suggest "owning the lane" under certain circumstances. The classic example is a two-lane road with a curve and double solid lines. Without "owning the lane", a car may attempt to pass you, illegally, by only partially using the left hand lane. If a car from the other direction suddenly appears you may be squeezed off the road or clipped by the passing car as he attempts to avoid a head-on collision. By the "owning the road", the passing car will often wait until a straightaway, and it is legal to pass, since they would have to fully move into the left hand lane. I have seen this happen more times than you would believe. Most experienced cyclists will move into the middle of the lane on a two-lane road around curves because to do otherwise is dangerous as there are too many drivers who violate the law.

I can assure you that nobody wants to play chicken with cars. To the contrary, the concept of "owning the road" is motivated by increasing safety. Any motorist that becoming "irate" about sharing the road with cyclists is a hazard to themselves and everyone else they share the road with. Unfortunate by true.

Good point on turns.

[outlaw]

Let's use a couple of analogies.

There is a 75 mph wind at your back. Now walk as close to the edge of the Grand Canyon as practicable. Good Job. Now walk as close to the edge as possible.


There is a ferocious pit bull on a chain. Walk as close as practicable. Now walk as close as possible.

If someone rode their bike as far right as possible, their tire would be on the exact edge of the road. The statute says "practicable".

Actually, I said "as safely as possible". does that help?

[outlaw]

I wish the administrator would remove these sorts of posts by Trolls. You are adding nothing to the discussion.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]

tuccillo, I think you missed pennbf's point. It is about entitlement. For instance, the villages bicycle club has a shirt that says in big letters "Same road, Same rules". Or something like that. But the rules are really not the same for autos and bicycles; no insurance required for bikes, no "drivers" license, no license plate/registration, no stop lights, etc. Not even a helmet requirement when motorcycle riders were required to wear many years ago in Florida. So the rules are not the same. But the bikers like to say this because it justifies to them their equal right to the whole lane.

[tuccillo]

Using the whole lane is not only the law but it is also a safety issue. Please see my previous posts about why cyclists should use the entire lane on some occasions. Issues such as insurance and licensing really have nothing to do with the rules of the road; those are administrative issues. Nearly everyone runs stop signs and there are a lot more cars running stop signs then bicycles. As I stated earlier, bicycles are essentially slow moving cars and need to be treated as such.You should pass cyclists when it is safe and lawful to do so, just as you would a slower moving car. This is really a pretty simple concept.

If you are unhappy with the law then you are free to try to change it. Regarding pennbfs' post, I didn't miss the point; he was trolling.

tuccillo, I think you missed pennbf's point. It is about entitlement. For instance, the villages bicycle club has a shirt that says in big letters "Same road, Same rules". Or something like that. But the rules are really not the same for autos and bicycles; no insurance required for bikes, no "drivers" license, no license plate/registration, no stop lights, etc. Not even a helmet requirement when motorcycle riders were required to wear many years ago in Florida. So the rules are not the same. But the bikers like to say this because it justifies to them their equal right to the whole lane.

[sunnyatlast]

There have been lots of threads here complaining about heavy traffic on Morse and Buena Vista, and about how some think that the 2-lane-exit roundabouts ought to be made one lane to lessen the confusion about which lane they must be in (never mind the signs with diagrams before each roundabout, that clearly diagram which lane you need to choose for turning right, left, or continuing straight).

I'm mind boggled when I see bike riders and somebody above state that they purposely occupy the whole lane, which forces the motorist to get into the left lane to pass them, and the need to pass is because the bicyclist is only going 15-20 mph and the speed limit is 35!!!!

So the cyclist forces you to pass them in the left lane, in heavy traffic, but you need to be in the right lane to choose the proper lane upon entering the roundabout ahead. They make you unable to go the speed limit AND be in the correct lane at the entrance of the roundabout due to the lane being full after passing!!

[tuccillo]

A couple of points. The lanes are not wide enough to contain both a car and a bike plus the required 3 feet of clearance. Therefore, a bike may essentially occupy an entire lane. Secondly, there is no minimum speed limit on Buena Vista. Just as with a slower moving car, it is up to the passing vehicle to pass, in the left hand lane, when it is safe to do so. If you do not have sufficient time to pass and get back in the right hand lane before the roundabout then you must remain in the right hand lane. Sorry that you are be inconvenienced but cyclists get to use the road also. It is your responsibility to share the road in a safe and lawful manner.

There have been lots of threads here complaining about heavy traffic on Morse and Buena Vista, and about how some think that the 2-lane-exit roundabouts ought to be made one lane to lessen the confusion about which lane they must be in (never mind the signs with diagrams before each roundabout, that clearly diagram which lane you need to choose for turning right, left, or continuing straight).

I'm mind boggled when I see bike riders and somebody above state that they purposely occupy the whole lane, which forces the motorist to get into the left lane to pass them, and the need to pass is because the bicyclist is only going 15-20 mph and the speed limit is 35!!!!

So the cyclist forces you to pass them in the left lane, in heavy traffic, but you need to be in the right lane to choose the proper lane upon entering the roundabout ahead. They make you unable to go the speed limit AND be in the correct lane at the entrance of the roundabout due to the lane being full after passing!!

[sunnyatlast]

A couple of points. The lanes are not wide enough to contain both a car and a bike plus the required 3 feet of clearance. Therefore, a bike may essentially occupy an entire lane. Secondly, there is no minimum speed limit on Buena Vista. Just as with a slower moving car, it is up to the passing vehicle to pass, in the left hand lane, when it is safe to do so. If you do not have sufficient time to pass and get back in the right hand lane before the roundabout then you must remain in the right hand lane. Sorry that you are be inconvenienced but cyclists get to use the road also. It is your responsibility to share the road in a safe and lawful manner.

This is the arrogance. Why do bicyclists want to hold up of a string of cars/trucks behind them, by going 15-20 on the bike when everyone else can be going 30-35????

How about some consideration for the majority of vehicle drivers who want to keep traffic flowing at 30-35 mph??

[Sandtrap328]

Same road - same rules?

When the large group of bicyclers go blowing through the stop signs, is that the same rules as cars or carts?

Most of the time, it does not bother me at all when a single cycler does that but really gets me when the group of 15 or so cyclers all do it together.

[tuccillo]

Cyclists are allowed to use the roads just like cars. If this is an inconvenience to you that is just something you are going to have to live with. The roads are a shared resource. That is the way things work in society. It is arrogant of you to think that the roads do not have to be shared.

This is the arrogance. Why do bicyclists want to hold up of a string of cars/trucks behind them, by going 15-20 on the bike when everyone else can be going 30-35????

How about some consideration for the majority of vehicle drivers who want to keep traffic flowing at 30-35 mph??

[tuccillo]

It bothers me when I see cars blow through stop signs. It bothers me when I am passed illegally on two-lane roads. It bothers me when people change lanes without using their turn signals. I could go on but I think you see the point.

Same road - same rules?

When the large group of bicyclers go blowing through the stop signs, is that the same rules as cars or carts?

Most of the time, it does not bother me at all when a single cycler does that but really gets me when the group of 15 or so cyclers all do it together.

[tuccillo]

Why you would continue to hold onto a belief that cars have more of a right to the roads than cyclists is beyond me. Cyclists have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars.

This is the arrogance. Why do bicyclists want to hold up of a string of cars/trucks behind them, by going 15-20 on the bike when everyone else can be going 30-35????

How about some consideration for the majority of vehicle drivers who want to keep traffic flowing at 30-35 mph??

[Villager Audio Video]

Cyclists are allowed to use the roads just like cars. If this is an inconvenience to you that is just something you are going to have to live with. The roads are a shared resource. That is the way things work in society. It is arrogant of you to think that the roads do not have to be shared.
And there you have it, asked and answered

[Sandtrap328]

Why you would continue to hold onto a belief that cars have more of a right to the roads than cyclists is beyond me. Cyclists have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars.

Yes, but please do use it (as I am sure you do) with consideration for others.

Similar to a few groups of walkers on the multi-modal trails who walk side by side and literally take the entire width of the trail - and do not want to make way for either bikes or carts.

[outlaw]

Using the whole lane is not only the law but it is also a safety issue. Please see my previous posts about why cyclists should use the entire lane on some occasions. Issues such as insurance and licensing really have nothing to do with the rules of the road; those are administrative issues. Nearly everyone runs stop signs and there are a lot more cars running stop signs then bicycles. As I stated earlier, bicycles are essentially slow moving cars and need to be treated as such.You should pass cyclists when it is safe and lawful to do so, just as you would a slower moving car. This is really a pretty simple concept.

If you are unhappy with the law then you are free to try to change it. Regarding pennbfs' post, I didn't miss the point; he was trolling.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[tuccillo]

Disagree on what? The facts? There is nothing to debate here - I am only passing on the law.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Paper1]

I also ride. I don't know where you get this idea that you are legally entitled to the whole lane. Florida law is clear about this. You are required to ride as far to the right of the road as safely as possible. That does not entitle you to the whole lane.
I don't want to disagree with you in this forum but think you'll be surprised if you check with sheriff's dept.

[Paper1]

Disagree on what? The facts? There is nothing to debate here - I am only passing on the law.
Thank you for supporting the group of us who ride bikes in Villages by stating actual laws and facts but you are pounding your head into a cement wall. There is a certain level of uniformed opinions on this website at times that don't believe water is wet and won't be convinced outerwise.

[Justus]

I also ride. I don't know where you get this idea that you are legally entitled to the whole lane. Florida law is clear about this. You are required to ride as far to the right of the road as safely as possible. That does not entitle you to the whole lane.

:BigApplause: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

So many cyclists share the misconception that they own the road and are entitled to tie up traffic at any speed they choose. Florida law IS explicit about this! Regardless of how many times the link to the Florida State Code is offered on this forum, there are still those who insist on interpreting it as it suits them. Thank God there are still some rational, informed cyclists out there!

The only way this issue will be resolved is if cyclists are required to be educated, tested and licensed if they choose to use public roads. That is the case in California; if they violate traffic laws there, they are ticketed, fined or hauled off in handcuffs, just like any other irresponsible driver.

[Happydaz]

:The only way this issue will be resolved is if cyclists are required to be educated, tested and licensed if they choose to use public roads. That is the case in California; if they violate traffic laws there, they are ticketed, fined or hauled off in handcuffs, just like any other irresponsible driver.

Your point on California was very interesting so I looked it up.
Http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/about/bicycle

Sharing the road (FFDL37)
How far to the right?
Ride in the right lane but not so far that you may hit the curb. You could lose your balance and fall into traffic. Do not ride too far to the right. When a traffic lane is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side.

When to take the traffic lane :BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:
" narrow road ride closer to the center of the lane. This will prevent motorists from passing you when there is not enough room."

[tomwed]

:BigApplause: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Florida law IS explicit about this!

Look up the law and post it so the bikers can read it.

[dirtbanker]

Feel free to write your representatives about changing the law. Until then, the law is what it is.

Biking clothes are functional. Padded shorts for comfort in the saddle and brightly colored jerseys for improved visibility. No different than any other sport.

3' is 3'. Violate the law at your own peril.

Yes the law is what it is, till it is changed...I will pass my suggestion for testing, plates, and ticketing to those that will listen. Some of those might be interested in the revenue possibilities.

Sure, regular shorts and a regular shirt would not bring enough attention your way....Sport?

There is no way to accurately determine the 3' distance, if you feel safe with that; it seems to me that your the one that needs to consider "your own peril". I will also suggest requiring bicyclist to have insurance coverage for damage to cars in the event they "fall into" a car that is passing...just in case 3' turns out not to be enough room.

[tomwed]

FDOT considers a lane that is less than 14 feet wide to be too narrow for most motor vehicles to safely pass a bicycle within the lane.

How wide is BV?

[alzjr]

BV, Morse south of 466, El Camino Real, and Stillwater Tr. between Morse and BV all have lanes 11 feet wide. Classified as sub-standard width by Florida law which means there is not enough room for a bicycle, scooter, rollerblader, motorcycle, lawnmower, and a car to travel in at the same time.
USE THE OTHER LANE.

[l2ridehd]

Passing a bicycle should be done in as safe a manor as possible. Use the second lane if available, allow 3 feet or more on the path, yes they should use the left lane in a round about if turning left.

However, I don't care if your feet are bolted to the pedal you have no legal right to blow through stop signs and red lights. Maybe it's not convenient to unclip, than find a different solution.

I ride a motorcycle. It's not convenient to stop and place my feet on the pavement at stop signs either. Sand causes foot to slip, bike is heavy, etc. I am still breaking the law if I don't stop. And so are bicycle riders if they don't stop. And many many more don't stop than do stop.

[tuccillo]

One more time. You are wrong. Please pay attention this time. This has already been posted but I will do it one more time. If the road is not sufficiently wide for a bike and a car to coexist with at least 3 feet of clearance than the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes are not required to ride as far right as possible - they are required to ride as far right as the condition of the road allows. If the road is too narrow for a bike and car to coexist with 3 feet of clearance than it really doesn't matter. Most of the roads in The Villages are too narrow for a bike and car to coexist in the same lane.

:BigApplause: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

So many cyclists share the misconception that they own the road and are entitled to tie up traffic at any speed they choose. Florida law IS explicit about this! Regardless of how many times the link to the Florida State Code is offered on this forum, there are still those who insist on interpreting it as it suits them. Thank God there are still some rational, informed cyclists out there!

The only way this issue will be resolved is if cyclists are required to be educated, tested and licensed if they choose to use public roads. That is the case in California; if they violate traffic laws there, they are ticketed, fined or hauled off in handcuffs, just like any other irresponsible driver.

[tuccillo]

You go ahead and do that.

Why would you possibly care what other people wear when they are biking? As I said, biking shorts are padded. What part of that did you fail to understand?


Yes the law is what it is, till it is changed...I will pass my suggestion for testing, plates, and ticketing to those that will listen. Some of those might be interested in the revenue possibilities.

Sure, regular shorts and a regular shirt would not bring enough attention your way....Sport?

There is no way to accurately determine the 3' distance, if you feel safe with that; it seems to me that your the one that needs to consider "your own peril". I will also suggest requiring bicyclist to have insurance coverage for damage to cars in the event they "fall into" a car that is passing...just in case 3' turns out not to be enough room.

[tuccillo]

Nobody claimed that rolling through stop signs is legal in FL, although it is legal in some states such as Idaho. Many cars roll through stop signs also. In fact, I would say many more cars roll through stop signs, when it is clear, than come to a complete stop in my Village. It is what it is. I am just informing you of why. Move on.

Passing a bicycle should be done in as safe a manor as possible. Use the second lane if available, allow 3 feet or more on the path, yes they should use the left lane in a round about if turning left.

However, I don't care if your feet are bolted to the pedal you have no legal right to blow through stop signs and red lights. Maybe it's not convenient to unclip, than find a different solution.

I ride a motorcycle. It's not convenient to stop and place my feet on the pavement at stop signs either. Sand causes foot to slip, bike is heavy, etc. I am still breaking the law if I don't stop. And so are bicycle riders if they don't stop. And many many more don't stop than do stop.

[CFrance]

Nobody claimed that rolling through stop signs is legal in FL, although it is legal in some states such as Idaho. Many cars roll through stop signs also. In fact, I would say many more cars roll through stop signs, when it is clear, than come to a complete stop in my Village. It is what it is. I am just informing you of why. Move on.
Tuccillo... If you read back on posts about bicycling, you will find that I am a staunch defender of cyclists' right to the road, even though I am not a cyclist myself. I would like to point out, though, that comments like "move on" used to defend yourselves from breaking the road laws are what lead to cyclers being labeled as arrogant, entitled, and otherwise special. My suggestion would be to make your initial statement, but leave any impertinent declaratives out of it. Nobody, but nobody likes to be told what to do.

[outlaw]

Why you would continue to hold onto a belief that cars have more of a right to the roads than cyclists is beyond me. Cyclists have just as much of a right to use the roads as cars.

Uh, because autos pay for the roads through licensing and gasoline taxes; because roads were built for autos, not bikes, ergo the 15 ft width. Does that help?

[Villager Audio Video]

Cyclists don't have cars and dont pay for licensing and gas taxes?

[dirtbanker]

If the road is not sufficiently wide for a bike and a car to coexist with at least 3 feet of clearance than the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes are not required to ride as far right as possible - they are required to ride as far right as the condition of the road allows. If the road is too narrow for a bike and car to coexist with 3 feet of clearance than it really doesn't matter. Most of the roads in The Villages are too narrow for a bike and car to coexist in the same lane.


You are wrong and I am going to tell you why;

(1) There is no way to accurately determine the width of a lane from behind the wheel of a car. If you want to leave that responsibility entirely to a driver of a car (especially one in a retirement community), you could end up dead right.

(2) Bikes are required to ride as far right as possible, obviously conditions of the road would limit how far right is "possible". You are playing word games with your safety. Your padded shorts and spandex blouse are not going to help much if you get in an accident with a vehicle.

(3) If the road is too narrow for bike and car to coexist with 3' of clearance it certainly does matter. You are inconveniencing a number of other people for your personal enjoyment. You see any joggers running down the middle of the lane causing cars to pile up behind them??

I believe the attitude becomes "super hero" the moment they put on the silly outfit.

[dirtbanker]

Cyclists don't have cars and dont pay for licensing and gas taxes?

Not sure if all of them do or not, what is the intended point there?

I do know; if I own more than one car, I have to pay for more than one license plate and I pay road tax on each of the vehicles. I also am required to have insurance in case I am involved in an accident and I have to pass a test to have the privileged to operate the vehicle on the road.

[tuccillo]

I am not defending anything. Bikes and cars both roll through stop signs. Cars do it a lot more than bikes because there are a lot more cars than bikes on the roads. Whining about anyone rolling through stop signs is a waste of time. Nearly everyone does it, therefore, move on to your next topic.

Tuccillo... If you read back on posts about bicycling, you will find that I am a staunch defender of cyclists' right to the road, even though I am not a cyclist myself. I would like to point out, though, that comments like "move on" used to defend yourselves from breaking the road laws are what lead to cyclers being labeled as arrogant, entitled, and otherwise special. My suggestion would be to make your initial statement, but leave any impertinent declaratives out of it. Nobody, but nobody likes to be told what to do.

[tuccillo]

As has been already pointed out, most of the roads in The Villages are substandard width and cannot accommodate a car and a bike with the required 3 feet of clearance. Bikes have just as much of a right to the road as cars. Why you would choose to argue this fact is still beyond me. Most cyclists own cars so they are paying for the roads. Does this clear things up for you?

Uh, because autos pay for the roads through licensing and gasoline taxes; because roads were built for autos, not bikes, ergo the 15 ft width. Does that help?

[outlaw]

Cyclists don't have cars and dont pay for licensing and gas taxes?

They are more than welcome to drive their cars on the road and "own their lane".

Every vehicle I use on the road helps pay for that road, which is fine since I am using the road. When I ride my bike on the road, that bike isn't contributing to the building or maintenance of the road. It's a "free benefit for me. I always yield to autos. I find being extra courteous to motorists while cycling along the road, moving as far left as SAFELY as possible, usually results in the motorists giving plenty of room as they pass. But by all means, "own that lane" at your peril. And don't forget to step off of the curb into that pedestrian crosswalk without looking to see if that car is going to turn into you. After all, you are in a pedestrian crosswalk and it is up to the motorist to yield to you.

[tuccillo]

Why you would choose to defend a position that is counter to the law is beyond me. One more time. If the road is too narrow to accommodate a car and a bike with 3 feet of clearance then the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes have as much right to the roads as cars. If you are inconvenienced that is too bad - just as you would be inconvenienced by a car driving slower than you wish. Roads are a shared resource and the law is written that cars and bikes share the road. If you don't like the law then work to change it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

Many people ride bikes on the roads in The Villages. Your posts suggest that you harbor resentment towards these people. Life is too short to have anger in your heart.

You are wrong and I am going to tell you why;

(1) There is no way to accurately determine the width of a lane from behind the wheel of a car. If you want to leave that responsibility entirely to a driver of a car (especially one in a retirement community), you could end up dead right.

(2) Bikes are required to ride as far right as possible, obviously conditions of the road would limit how far right is "possible". You are playing word games with your safety. Your padded shorts and spandex blouse are not going to help much if you get in an accident with a vehicle.

(3) If the road is too narrow for bike and car to coexist with 3' of clearance it certainly does matter. You are inconveniencing a number of other people for your personal enjoyment. You see any joggers running down the middle of the lane causing cars to pile up behind them??

I believe the attitude becomes "super hero" the moment they put on the silly outfit.

[Justus]

One more time. You are wrong. Please pay attention this time. This has already been posted but I will do it one more time. If the road is not sufficiently wide for a bike and a car to coexist with at least 3 feet of clearance than the bike is entitled to the lane. Bikes are not required to ride as far right as possible - they are required to ride as far right as the condition of the road allows. If the road is too narrow for a bike and car to coexist with 3 feet of clearance than it really doesn't matter. Most of the roads in The Villages are too narrow for a bike and car to coexist in the same lane.

Read the law!!! This time, don't interpret it to your advantage. Apparently, to cyclists who hog the roads and hold vehicular traffic behind them, Buena Vista and 466 are not "wide enough". If an automobile did that, they'd be ticketed for obstruction of traffic. Again, READ THE LAW!

[tuccillo]

Go back reread the posts. Both the police and bike clubs talk about "owning the lane" in situations where doing otherwise will put the cyclist in danger. Why this is such a difficult concept to understand is truly a mystery.

They are more than welcome to drive their cars on the road and "own their lane".

Every vehicle I use on the road helps pay for that road, which is fine since I am using the road. When I ride my bike on the road, that bike isn't contributing to the building or maintenance of the road. It's a "free benefit for me. I always yield to autos. I find being extra courteous to motorists while cycling along the road, moving as far left as SAFELY as possible, usually results in the motorists giving plenty of room as they pass. But by all means, "own that lane" at your peril. And don't forget to step off of the curb into that pedestrian crosswalk without looking to see if that car is going to turn into you. After all, you are in a pedestrian crosswalk and it is up to the motorist to yield to you.

[tuccillo]

I have read the law. Buena Vista is not wide enough for a car and bike in the same lane with 3 feet of clearance. You should move over the left hand lane when passing, just as you would for a slower moving car. Cyclists do not "hog" the road - they are allowed by law to use the roads, just like cars.

Read the law!!! This time, don't interpret it to your advantage. Apparently, to cyclists who hog the roads and hold vehicular traffic behind them, Buena Vista and 466 are not "wide enough". If an automobile did that, they'd be ticketed for obstruction of traffic. Again, READ THE LAW!

[tuccillo]

There is no minimum speed limit on Buena Vista. A car can drive well below the speed limit, say 15 mph, legally.

Read the law!!! This time, don't interpret it to your advantage. Apparently, to cyclists who hog the roads and hold vehicular traffic behind them, Buena Vista and 466 are not "wide enough". If an automobile did that, they'd be ticketed for obstruction of traffic. Again, READ THE LAW!

[tuccillo]

The concept of "owning the lane" applies to situations where you need to prevent a car from "crowding" you in a lane and putting you in danger. As I previously pointed out, the classic example is a curve on a 2-lane road. Under those situation, cyclists are advised to move into the middle of the lane to eliminate the possibility of being "crowded" by those who don't obey the 3 foot clearance law. When approaching roundabouts, it is also a good idea to move to the middle of the lane.

Most cyclists I know ride within about 3 feet of the curb on roads such as Buena Vista. Hugging the curb is dangerous because of debris near the curb and catch basins. This does not leave sufficient room for a car since the lanes are too narrow. In other words, even though most cyclists are as far right as is practical, the lane still cannot accommodate a car and a bike. The vast majority of drivers apparently have no problem swinging into the left hand lane to pass when it is safe to do so.

They are more than welcome to drive their cars on the road and "own their lane".

Every vehicle I use on the road helps pay for that road, which is fine since I am using the road. When I ride my bike on the road, that bike isn't contributing to the building or maintenance of the road. It's a "free benefit for me. I always yield to autos. I find being extra courteous to motorists while cycling along the road, moving as far left as SAFELY as possible, usually results in the motorists giving plenty of room as they pass. But by all means, "own that lane" at your peril. And don't forget to step off of the curb into that pedestrian crosswalk without looking to see if that car is going to turn into you. After all, you are in a pedestrian crosswalk and it is up to the motorist to yield to you.

[rustyp]

What's needed here is a 3 foot rubber stick mounted to the centerline of the bike sticking out perpendicular to the left. The bike club can keep a tally of how many wack-o-las there are on an on going basis. There is all kinds of interesting data that can be gathered. Wack-o-las per time of day, wack-o-las Vs. how many lanes, wack-o-las Vs. neighborhood, wack-o-las Vs. vehicle type etc. Gather all this info and hand it off to the authorities and sit back and observe how they deal with the wack-o-las.

[outlaw]

How about a compromise; ban all bicycles from BV and Morse Blvds except in the MMP lane. We don't allow bicyclists on interstates for their own safety. The same should apply on these blvds, especially with the roundabouts. There are plenty of country roads around the villages that the bicyclists could ride on.

[tuccillo]

Do you realize that Buena Vista and Morse are county roads and "The Villages" (neither the residential or commercial CDDs, nor the Developer) doesn't have any say in the roads? If you want to spend your time tilting at windmills in Tallahassee, go for it.

How about a compromise; ban all bicycles from BV and Morse Blvds except in the MMP lane. We don't allow bicyclists on interstates for their own safety. The same should apply on these blvds, especially with the roundabouts. There are plenty of country roads around the villages that the bicyclists could ride on.

[CFrance]

How about a compromise; ban all bicycles from BV and Morse Blvds except in the MMP lane. We don't allow bicyclists on interstates for their own safety. The same should apply on these blvds, especially with the roundabouts. There are plenty of country roads around the villages that the bicyclists could ride on.
So in other words, kick all the bicycles off of TV roads and relegate them to country roads that are also too narrow to pass within the lane. Make it someone else's problem, and not yours.

You can't rewrite the laws to suit your own purpose. The only thing you can do is work to change them. And I imagine that wouldn't work, as bicycles have been legal on roadways since their beginning.

[TheVillageChicken]

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