Traffic control on Morse

[perrjojo]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:

[graciegirl]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:

Book 'em Danno. Best way to keep us all safe.

[blueeagle65]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:


Excellent!!!! :police:

[janmcn]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:


Evidently the unruly crowd at the Sumter County commissioners meeting Tuesday night got somebody's attention.

[DonH57]

I read the article about the meeting. It does seem like cars race up and down Morse. There were emergency vehicles at the north end morse roundabout this morning but I don't what happened.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I drive in the area of Morse and 466 very often. I very seldom see people speeding. I generally set my speed control at around 30 mph, occasionally a bit over, but never more than 35 and I almost never have people on my tail. In fact, I often have to slow down because people in front of me are going slower.

I also drive in area quite a bit in my golf cart. I admit that my cart will do a bit over 20 mph but it depends on whether it's going up hill or downhill.

Is there a speed limit for golf carts?

[DonH57]

I believe the speeding is mainly when the snowbirds are gone. I see more of it on the side streets. If it's not the speeding it's the running of stop signs when they turn right. Most never even look to their left and I wonder how they are still alive. It is very fortunate there are very, very few children in the villages the way most drive.

[Sandtrap328]

The speed limit on golf carts on streets is 20 mph. Please do not come back and post 19.9.

If the cart is clocked over 20 mph, you could be subject to all sorts of fines.

[DonH57]

I drive in the area of Morse and 466 very often. I very seldom see people speeding. I generally set my speed control at around 30 mph, occasionally a bit over, but never more than 35 and I almost never have people on my tail. In fact, I often have to slow down because people in front of me are going slower.

I also drive in area quite a bit in my golf cart. I admit that my cart will do a bit over 20 mph but it depends on whether it's going up hill or downhill.

Is there a speed limit for golf carts?

golf cart speed limit is 20 mph unless otherwise posted less as with all traffic.

[Chatbrat]

a speeding ticket on a golf cart with all the add ons & required remediation can get close to $1000.00

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The speed limit on golf carts on streets is 20 mph. Please do not come back and post 19.9.

If the cart is clocked over 20 mph, you could be subject to all sorts of fines.

That's not how I understand it. As far as I know a cart that goes over 20 mph is classified as a Low Speed Vehicle. Carts that go under 20 are golf cart. But I've never seen an actual speed limit for golf carts posted any where.

I can take a legal cart to the top of a hill in my neighborhood, out in neutral and I'll be doing over 20 mph by the time I reach the bottom of the hill. That doesn't mean that the cart needs to be categorized as an LSL.

Often when I going along at 20, I'll hit a little down hill grade and get up to 23 or 24 mph. Again, I have not seen any speed limits posted for golf carts.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

golf cart speed limit is 20 mph unless otherwise posted less as with all traffic.

Do you know if that's posted somewhere, Don?

I see signs that say the speed limit is 20 mph unless otherwise posted, but I have never seen anything that says anything about golf cart speed limits.

[ajbrown]

Dr,

Instead of looking at all the statutes, here is a nice summary.

Florida Law (http://www.starelectriccars.com/Florida%20Law.htm)

[LndLocked]

Do you know if that's posted somewhere, Don?

I see signs that say the speed limit is 20 mph unless otherwise posted, but I have never seen anything that says anything about golf cart speed limits.

Their has been a min of 500 threads about the legal speed limit for non "street legal" golf carts on TOTV.

Are their posted speed limit signs for golf carts? I admit I have never seen or noticed one. Is their state statute on the max speed for a non "street legal" golf cart? Most dif yes and it is 20mph (some would argue that actually means 19.9)

If you are caught driving a non street legal golf cart over 20mph will you be given a ticket for speeding? NO! You will however be given a ticket for "operating an unregistered vehicle". Between the fine, court costs and what manner you choose to bring your cart into compliance (you either have to have it certified as being governed to < 20mph or make it "street legal") .... this will cost you many hundreds of dollars.

[Chatbrat]

If a Golf Cart is clocked going over 19.9, it is no longer a LSV-the tickets will be for the following

1)having an unregistered vehicle
2)having an uninsured vehicle
3)having non compliant vehicle(emissions, windshield wipers, brakes,etc)
4) speeding

and finally getting the speed recertified @ 19.9 mph

also if your driving privileges are currently suspended or revoked you cannot drive any motor vehicle & a golf cart & a LSV are both
classified as a motor vehicle

[TheVillageChicken]

If a LSV is clocked going over 19.9, it is no longer a LSV-the tickets will be for the following

1)having an unregistered vehicle
2)having an uninsured vehicle
3)having non compliant vehicle(emissions, windshield wipers, brakes,etc)
4) speeding

and finally getting the speed recertified @ 19.9 mph

also if your driving privileges are currently suspended or revoked you cannot drive any motor vehicle & a LSV is classified as a motor vehicle

LSVs and Golf Carts are not the same under the law. I wish someone could give me a reference for this 19.9 nonsense.

By Florida Statute, an LSV has a speed limitation of 25 MPH and a golf cart has a speed limitation of 20 MPH. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0320/Sections/0320.01.html)

[billethkid]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

LSVs and Golf Carts are not the same under the law. I wish someone could give me a reference for this 19.9 nonsense.

By Florida Statute, an LSV has a speed limitation of 25 MPH and a golf cart has a speed limitation of 20 MPH. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0320/Sections/0320.01.html)


From the link that you posted:

(22) “Golf cart” means a motor vehicle that is designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and that is not capable of exceeding speeds of 20 miles per hour.


Because they have not designated that the 20 mph is on level ground or have mentioned wind conditions, every golf cart in The Villages is illegal. As I have pointed out, they are all capable of going over 20 mph down hill.

Again, as far as I know there are no speed limits for golf carts.

If I have a cart set up to go a maximum of 18 mph on level ground with no wind and I am driving on a steep downhill and the cart gets up to 24 mph, can I be cited for exceeding the speed limit which doesn't exist? Can I be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since the fact that my cart was going 24 downhill demonstrates that it is capable of going over 20 mph?

Whoever wrote these laws was either not thinking or intentionally made them so nebulous that the police can cite you for almost anything.

[karostay]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

About time

[2BNTV]

My electric cart computer allows for a max speed of 19.5 mph. In reality, it goes about 18 MPH. I have notice my cart slows down when going downhill, as if it has some sort of governor attached.

I can honestly say I very rarely take a trip in my golf cart and someone doesn't pass me going above 20 MPH. In some case way over the 20 MPH speed limit.

I personally take comfort in knowing I can never get a speeding ticket in my golf cart.

BTW - Some people think "stop signs" are suggestions, and have seen many people go thru them. Sometimes, without even making an attempt, to stop. Police will give you a ticket for what is considered a "rolling stop". That's when you wheels are still moving going thru a stop sign, but not a full stop.

I'm sure that many tickets are issued to cars than golf carts, but they is a large amount of people who have carts, that consistently exceed the speed limit. IMHO

I wonder what some people do with the couple of minutes they save after speeding to a location. Probably relax from the strain of looking over their shoulder and not getting caught.

Wouldn't it be easier to leave a few minutes earlier? :D

Just sayin.............

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If a Golf Cart is clocked going over 19.9, it is no longer a LSV-the tickets will be for the following

1)having an unregistered vehicle
2)having an uninsured vehicle
3)having non compliant vehicle(emissions, windshield wipers, brakes,etc)
4) speeding

and finally getting the speed recertified @ 19.9 mph

also if your driving privileges are currently suspended or revoked you cannot drive any motor vehicle & a golf cart & a LSV are both
classified as a motor vehicle

Persons over the age of 14 who do not otherwise have driving privileges are allowed to drive golf carts on designated county and municipal roads. How can driving privileges that do not exist be revoked?

[ajbrown]

snipped by Alan

If I have a cart set up to go a maximum of 18 mph on level ground with no wind and I am driving on a steep downhill and the cart gets up to 24 mph, can I be cited for exceeding the speed limit which doesn't exist? Can I be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since the fact that my cart was going 24 downhill demonstrates that it is capable of going over 20 mph?



I have never found an answer to this question. Many of the old Club Carts are series carts which roll freely. Common sense says you should not be cited, but if radar is setup at the bottom of a hill, my opinion will not matter... a inexpensive speedometer will save that confusion.

[DonH57]

Do you know if that's posted somewhere, Do I xan?

I see signs that say the speed limit is 20 mph unless otherwise posted, but I have never seen anything that says anything about golf cart speed limits.

There is a 10 mph limit on part of Avienda although I've never seen it enforced. I can swear there are a couple 15 mph limits but I don't remember where.

[mulligan]

10mph over the bridge at Lake Sumter

[newguyintv]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:

Glad to see that enforcement is actually happening. Now that we are on the subject of Morse Blvd, it should be noted that this one street has two of the most hazardous locations for golf cart traffic. Everyone knows about the crossover at Morse and 466, a situation made for disasters. Also, does anyone agree that the Morse traffic circle at 441 is very dangerous for golf carts that have to go either 1/2 or 3/4 around it to get to their exit cart path. Another disaster waiting to happen.

[outlaw]

How many of you goodie-two-shoes exceed the 10 mph speed limit over the Sumter Landing bridge? If you celebrate someone getting a ticket for going 21 mph down Morse blvd., you have some serious issues.

[newguyintv]

How many of you goodie-two-shoes exceed the 10 mph speed limit over the Sumter Landing bridge? If you celebrate someone getting a ticket for going 21 mph down Morse blvd., you have some serious issues.

Are you talking about Cars or Golf Carts. The golf cart lanes on the bridge are so narrow that someone is bound to be killed there eventually. And by the way, why would anyone be ticketed for going 21 on a road whose speed limit is higher than that. OH, you mean golf carts whose max speed limit on public streets is 20 mph. Golf cart going 21 mph is like a car going 40 in a 35 mph zone. Both should be ticketed.

[DonH57]

Glad to see that enforcement is actually happening. Now that we are on the subject of Morse Blvd, it should be noted that this one street has two of the most hazardous locations for golf cart traffic. Everyone knows about the crossover at Morse and 466, a situation made for disasters. Also, does anyone agree that the Morse traffic circle at 441 is very dangerous for golf carts that have to go either 1/2 or 3/4 around it to get to their exit cart path. Another disaster waiting to happen.

The only problem I've had at the crossover is cars punching the gas to pass me when I signal to move over and they were at least 400 feet back or more and they blast the horn and salute me. Cars going around the roundabout don't signal they are cutting right and turn at the last second.

[njbchbum]

From the link that you posted:

Because they have not designated that the 20 mph is on level ground or have mentioned wind conditions, every golf cart in The Villages is illegal. As I have pointed out, they are all capable of going over 20 mph down hill.

Again, as far as I know there are no speed limits for golf carts.

If I have a cart set up to go a maximum of 18 mph on level ground with no wind and I am driving on a steep downhill and the cart gets up to 24 mph, can I be cited for exceeding the speed limit which doesn't exist? Can I be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since the fact that my cart was going 24 downhill demonstrates that it is capable of going over 20 mph?

Whoever wrote these laws was either not thinking or intentionally made them so nebulous that the police can cite you for almost anything.


My golly, Doc! Doesn't your cart have brakes to keep it from exceeding 20mph on the downhill or anywhere else?

Do you coast down West Boone or St. Andrews or Mark in your car without applying the brakes?

[DonH57]

I don't know about Doc's cart but I took off my old brakes yesterday. The new ones will be in saturday or so.

[Topspinmo]

Are you talking about Cars or Golf Carts. The golf cart lanes on the bridge are so narrow that someone is bound to be killed there eventually. And by the way, why would anyone be ticketed for going 21 on a road whose speed limit is higher than that. OH, you mean golf carts whose max speed limit on public streets is 20 mph. Golf cart going 21 mph is like a car going 40 in a 35 mph zone. Both should be ticketed.

I have problem with your math 21 vs. 20, 1 mph over. 35 vs 40, 5 mph over. Big strength. I would think Officer would allow for Calibration of equipment (both the radar devise and the Speedometer on Governed Golf cart set at 20 MPH) before he would write ticket 1 MPH over the speed limit. No comparison 35 vs 40. Bad Comparison IMO.

My golf cart is governed at 20 MPH and has speedometer. depending on the ground level, un-level, or the wind the speed varies between 19.4 MPH to 20.4 MPH. I get passed maybe 20 present of the time.

[newguyintv]

I have problem with your math 21 vs. 20, 1 mph over. 35 vs 40, 5 mph over. Big strength. I would think Officer would allow for Calibration of equipment (both the radar devise and the Speedometer on Governed Golf cart set at 20 MPH) before he would write ticket 1 MPH over the speed limit. No comparison 35 vs 40. Bad Comparison IMO.

My golf cart is governed at 20 MPH and has speedometer. depending on the ground level, un-level, or the wind the speed varies between 19.4 MPH to 20.4 MPH. I get passed maybe 20 present of the time.

Your math needs to learn percentages!

[CFrance]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.
Amen to that.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Interesting. I was just driving in my golf cart in that area. I went from the Del Mar gate on Avenida Central down Del Mar. About 300 before you get to Rio Grande there is an upgrade. About 150 yards later you reach the top and immediately begin going downhill.
I was following a cart that was going under 20 mph. When I got to the uphill section, I stepped floored it to get up the hill. I got up to just under 20 mph. As soon as I began going downhill, I took my foot completely off the accelerator. Within a few seconds, I was going 22 mph. I applied the brake until I got back down to 20. According to some people, I should have been ticketed.

As I was coming back from LSL I kept me speed under 20 being aware of what's going on down there. As I was approaching the intersection where Mr Hughes was killed. I noticed flashing red and blue lights. I came over a hill and a motorcycle cop had some poor guy pulled over and was ticketing him.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. As you approach that area of Morse heading north, you begin a downhill grade. The cops wait at the bottom of that grade to catch these dangerous drivers.

What a joke. An 85 year old man makes a huge mistake. A bunch of over zealous people go and complain and the county decides that they will go harass a bunch of people for a few days and make a few bucks in the process.

34 mph in a 30 mph zone and 20 mph golf carts reaching 22 or 23 is not the problem. The problem is people, or in this case, a person, making bad decisions.

[golf2140]

Interesting. I was just driving in my golf cart in that area. I went from the Del Mar gate on Avenida Central down Del Mar. About 300 before you get to Rio Grande there is an upgrade. About 150 yards later you reach the top and immediately begin going downhill.
I was following a cart that was going under 20 mph. When I got to the uphill section, I stepped floored it to get up the hill. I got up to just under 20 mph. As soon as I began going downhill, I took my foot completely off the accelerator. Within a few seconds, I was going 22 mph. I applied the brake until I got back down to 20. According to some people, I should have been ticketed.

As I was coming back from LSL I kept me speed under 20 being aware of what's going on down there. As I was approaching the intersection where Mr Hughes was killed. I noticed flashing red and blue lights. I came over a hill and a motorcycle cop had some poor guy pulled over and was ticketing him.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. As you approach that area of Morse heading north, you begin a downhill grade. The cops wait at the bottom of that grade to catch these dangerous drivers.

What a joke. An 85 year old man makes a huge mistake. A bunch of over zealous people go and complain and the county decides that they will go harass a bunch of people for a few days and make a few bucks in the process.

34 mph in a 30 mph zone and 20 mph golf carts reaching 22 or 23 is not the problem. The problem is people, or in this case, a person, making bad decisions.

:bigbow:

[janmcn]

It's less expensive to urge the police to do the job they're paid to do than to talk about adding tunnels, stop signs, speed bumps, speed limit signs, etc.

A very short article in the on-line news says they normally write one ticket a day in that area. Yesterday they wrote 20 to placate the unruly crowd of a few hundred that showed up at the Sumter County Commissioner's meeting Tuesday night. They also presented the commissioners with a petition containing 1000 names.

We'll see how long this stepped up enforcement lasts.

[JMEZARIC3]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:

Were the golf carts street legal(25 mph limit) on Morse or were the carts traveling on the cart path(20 mph)?

[gerryann]

At the meeting Police presence was asked for. Now you have Police presence. Are you really gonna complain because they are now there and doing their job??? Lets hope they stay and nab a whole bunch more.

[Shimpy]

If a Golf Cart is clocked going over 19.9, it is no longer a LSV-the tickets will be for the following


Where do people come up with the 19.9 mph? The law says 20 mph. Also you have the terms wrong. A LSV is allowed to go 25 mph and is street legal. A golf cart is limited to 20 mph and can only travel on roads with a 30 mph speed limit or less.

[bluedog103]

Interesting. I was just driving in my golf cart in that area. I went from the Del Mar gate on Avenida Central down Del Mar. About 300 before you get to Rio Grande there is an upgrade. About 150 yards later you reach the top and immediately begin going downhill.
I was following a cart that was going under 20 mph. When I got to the uphill section, I stepped floored it to get up the hill. I got up to just under 20 mph. As soon as I began going downhill, I took my foot completely off the accelerator. Within a few seconds, I was going 22 mph. I applied the brake until I got back down to 20. According to some people, I should have been ticketed.

As I was coming back from LSL I kept me speed under 20 being aware of what's going on down there. As I was approaching the intersection where Mr Hughes was killed. I noticed flashing red and blue lights. I came over a hill and a motorcycle cop had some poor guy pulled over and was ticketing him.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. As you approach that area of Morse heading north, you begin a downhill grade. The cops wait at the bottom of that grade to catch these dangerous drivers.

What a joke. An 85 year old man makes a huge mistake. A bunch of over zealous people go and complain and the county decides that they will go harass a bunch of people for a few days and make a few bucks in the process.

34 mph in a 30 mph zone and 20 mph golf carts reaching 22 or 23 is not the problem. The problem is people, or in this case, a person, making bad decisions.
Well said Doc, thanks.

[justjim]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

Those who are wishing for more tickets to be written should be careful what they wish for. :cus: :spoken:

[Uberschaf]

a speeding ticket on a golf cart with all the add ons & required remediation can get close to $1000.00
Only if you fight it.$325 if you don't.

[gerryann]

Can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

[John_W]

I'd rather see police at any of the traffic circles on Buena Vista giving out 'illegal left turn' tickets to those who like to ride around to the third exit in the outside lane. My favorite would be Buena Vista and Bailey's Trail, they could write one per minute during the day.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Sumter+Landing/@28.894571,-81.979727,3a,90y,146.97h,69.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZbZK3WYJ9uOQbZUguD7k_w!2e0!4m2 !3m1!1s0x0:0xc51df430139f7e1d!6m1!1e1

[Yankee1]

If you think Morse Blvd has speeders on the road and golf cart path, you should see St. Charles speedway. I'm surprised so many get away with speeding.

[kcrazorbackfan]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

:agree:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

[Average Guy]

Florida state law is that if you are driving 5mph or less over the speed limit (barring any unusual circumstances like a stopped school bus), there is no fine, only a warning.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0318/Sections/0318.18.html)

[dewilson58]

10mph over the bridge at Lake Sumter

I B guilty of speeding here.

[DonH57]

Where do people come up with the 19.9 mph? The law says 20 mph. Also you have the terms wrong. A LSV is allowed to go 25 mph and is street legal. A golf cart is limited to 20 mph and can only travel on roads with 30 mph speed limit or less.

It beats me why the 19.9 keeps coming up. The max speed limit for carts is 20 mph. I think the confusion lies with the fact on carts, gas or electric at 19.6 mph the cart is set to throttle down. In an earlier post someone mentioned do gooders celebrating someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 21 mph. I celebrate when someone in a golf cart on a rare occasion gets a speeding ticket for doing 26 mph passing another cart doing 20 on morse blvd. Chances are they are the same ones passing on blind curves of the cart paths.

[Barefoot]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself. The more tickets and the higher the cost the better. At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according. Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good citizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

At the meeting Police presence was asked for. Now you have Police presence. Are you really gonna complain because they are now there and doing their job??? Lets hope they stay and nab a whole bunch more. .... Can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

:agree: I agree with the above two posts. It's so simple -- The Police can't ticket anyone that doesn't break the law.

[gerryann]

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

With all of the talk about lack of police presence on Morse near the scene of the accident, I'm so surprised to now see folks complaining that they are there doing their job. DONT SPEED, then you don't have to worry about it.

I do not think the police are giving out tickets for going 1 or 2 over......seriously!! And I don't think they are out "harassing" anyone either.

[gerryann]

AND...... I agree. It would be fantastic to see officers out there doing NOTHING but picking out the violators.

[Jim 9922]

As I understand it, the ticket blitz is the sheriff's answer to the original purpose of the meeting; to make safety improvements to the road/cart path. You can plaster the whole road with tickets but nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built.
You are mixing carts at 800 pounds with 3600+ pound vehicles, with the carts traveling at 2/3 the speed of the bigger vehicles and with only about 3 feet of separation. Then you force carts to cut across 2 traffic lanes to make a left turn or to enter traffic if turning in from a side street (depending on which way you are going); not to mention the southbound Russian roulette game required to get to the tunnel under HY 466.

To my knowledge almost all of the cart accidents have been from errors or lack of judgment in turning, not speeding cars and carts running over each other.

They say vehicle counts are up to 15,000 per day. Assume that 80% of that is from 9AM and 5PM, and deduct another 20% more for vehicles that only travel short distances. So maybe you have a "steady stream" of 9,600 vehicles during the 8 hour day busy time. Divide that by 480 minutes in an 8 hour day and you have a vehicle passing every 3 seconds. (even halve my numbers and you have a vehicle every 6 seconds) Top that off with a long stretch of the road without any traffic signals and many side streets funneling in traffic at a random rate. So, you have no "blocking" of vehicles that allow traffic-free spaces for turning across lanes. AND IT IS WORSE AT THE SOUTH END AT THE 466 GATE where the gate keeper's main function is to cram, as fast as possible, 2 lines of cars into one lane going North. They could care less that 5, 7, or even sometimes 10 carts can be stacked up southbound in the middle of Morse trying to make the left turn onto the cart path to get to the 466 tunnel!

So what is really needed? A tunnel at the HY 466 crossover, a separated golf cart path moved over on the existing shoulder of the road, and if not that, a series of traffic lights timed to control the flow of traffic.


Will any of that be done? Probably not. The roads are the responsibility of the County and I don't see it spending any money to correct the Developer's original errors in design and implementation. So what will probably happen, the cops will continue to write tickets, collect money for the County coffers, and say all is well until there are a couple more bad accidents and the whole complaint cycle begins again.

[outlaw]

Are you talking about Cars or Golf Carts. The golf cart lanes on the bridge are so narrow that someone is bound to be killed there eventually. And by the way, why would anyone be ticketed for going 21 on a road whose speed limit is higher than that. OH, you mean golf carts whose max speed limit on public streets is 20 mph. Golf cart going 21 mph is like a car going 40 in a 35 mph zone. Both should be ticketed.

I'm sure you never roll through a stop sign, or forget to use your turn signal, go two or three miles over the speed limit. And going 21 in a cart is not like a car going 40 in a 35 zone. It's like a car going 36.75 mph in a 35 zone.

[graciegirl]

I'm sure you never roll through a stop sign, or forget to use your turn signal, go two or three miles over the speed limit. And going 21 in a cart is not like a car going 40 in a 35 zone. It's like a car going 36.75 mph in a 35 zone.

THERE ARE SOME of us who stop at all stop signs AND always use our turn signals.

We are usually first born, have never been behind on a bill and still save our money. AND were born and raised in Ohio.
Sometimes we do inch past the speed limit. No one is perfect.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As I understand it, the ticket blitz is the sheriff's answer to the original purpose of the meeting; to make safety improvements to the road/cart path. You can plaster the whole road with tickets but nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built.
You are mixing carts at 800 pounds with 3600+ pound vehicles, with the carts traveling at 2/3 the speed of the bigger vehicles and with only about 3 feet of separation. Then you force carts to cut across 2 traffic lanes to make a left turn or to enter traffic if turning in from a side street (depending on which way you are going); not to mention the southbound Russian roulette game required to get to the tunnel under HY 466.

To my knowledge almost all of the cart accidents have been from errors or lack of judgment in turning, not speeding cars and carts running over each other.

They say vehicle counts are up to 15,000 per day. Assume that 80% of that is from 9AM and 5PM, and deduct another 20% more for vehicles that only travel short distances. So maybe you have a "steady stream" of 9,600 vehicles during the 8 hour day busy time. Divide that by 480 minutes in an 8 hour day and you have a vehicle passing every 3 seconds. (even halve my numbers and you have a vehicle every 6 seconds) Top that off with a long stretch of the road without any traffic signals and many side streets funneling in traffic at a random rate. So, you have no "blocking" of vehicles that allow traffic-free spaces for turning across lanes. AND IT IS WORSE AT THE SOUTH END AT THE 466 GATE where the gate keeper's main function is to cram, as fast as possible, 2 lines of cars into one lane going North. They could care less that 5, 7, or even sometimes 10 carts can be stacked up southbound in the middle of Morse trying to make the left turn onto the cart path to get to the 466 tunnel!

So what is really needed? A tunnel at the HY 466 crossover, a separated golf cart path moved over on the existing shoulder of the road, and if not that, a series of traffic lights timed to control the flow of traffic.


Will any of that be done? Probably not. The roads are the responsibility of the County and I don't see it spending any money to correct the Developer's original errors in design and implementation. So what will probably happen, the cops will continue to write tickets, collect money for the County coffers, and say all is well until there are a couple more bad accidents and the whole complaint cycle begins again.

I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

The gate keepers do a wonderful job of controlling the two lanes merging into one. Rather than contributing to the problem, as you seem to suggest, they make it safer.

I've never had a problem crossing over to make a left hand turn. I simply check my mirrors and am aware of my surroundings, use both electric and hand signals and change lanes when it is safe. It's only one lane that you have to cross by the way.

The same goes for getting to the tunnels going southbound. I find that once I signal with both my lights and hand cars slow down to let me in. On very rare occasions, a car does not let me go, so I wait for the next opportunity.

You mention "all of the golf cart accidents". I've lived here for three years and can only recall two. And, as you say, they were both caused by operator error and had nothing to do with the infrastructure.

There was also the incident where a driver had a medical episode and struck a bicyclist.

None of those had anything to do with the way that the road is built.

Having said that however, I do agree that it would be best if the paths were removed to off the roadway itself. That certainly would have prevented the three incidents that I mentioned. But, we need to look at what that would Buena Vista. Then, several tunnels would have to be built. I'd say three to four. The cart paths would have to accommodate two way traffic as they do everywhere else in TV. Is there enough room on both sides the entire length to build them? The areas where the paths would go are currently used for drainage. Can a system be designed and engineered to build cart paths an retain the drainage function? Is some of that property privately owned by homeowners whose homes back up to Morse?

I'm sure that there are many more questions that would have to be answered before a project like this could be attempted. A feasibility study would have to be done first to determine if it's even possible. Then the money has to be discussed.
i'm thinking we're talking about tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Who is going to pay for it.

I agree with. I will never be done.

[njbchbum]

Jim 9922 - You posted, "...nothing really has been done to correct the underlying design errors and problems when the road was built." Might you know what the design standards were back when the road was developed in the 1980s; and what the design errors were that should not have been made?

Despite the difficulty in crossing Morse at the gate near 466 - does anyone know the accident stats at that location in the past few years? Would it be greater/fewer than the number of incidents at Morse/466A?

[Jim 9922]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;1066732]I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

I realize that in reality there is not a vehicle passing EVERY 6 Seconds. The "calculation" was intended to make a point. There are a lot of cars traveling that road. In practice there are "blocks" of traffic which do allow for left turns, but things do get hairy at times, especially during the Winter Season. As for the 466 southbound crossover; that's where someone will eventually get hit by a car coming out of the "starting gates".

[JoMar]

All great posts, until they show up and ask the residents to fund the projects. People will start losing part of their properties to accommodate relocation of the traffic since tunnels and MMP's are not County tax issues. Those changes would not be a PWC issue so the CDD's would need to figure out how to pay for them. But, if it is as dangerous as many believe it is they might be willing to either pay for it or accept it for what it is and live with it. The accidents are always driver error, misjudgments, lack of patience or distractions.....some by the cart driver, some by the car driver but never (that I know of) mechanical error, the roadway forcing a vehicle into another or the gate keeper. My opinion is that a good start is enforcement since drivers will need to be trained.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;1066732]I agree with much of this, but if you drive on that road you know that there no way that a car passes a given point every six seconds. Many times I go through those gates and don't see another car in either direction for a quarter of a mile.
There is no way those numbers can be correct.

I realize that in reality there is not a vehicle passing EVERY 6 Seconds. The "calculation" was intended to make a point. There are a lot of cars traveling that road. In practice there are "blocks" of traffic which do allow for left turns, but things do get hairy at times, especially during the Winter Season. As for the 466 southbound crossover; that's where someone will eventually get hit by a car coming out of the "starting gates".

There is nothing that I can think as an easy fix for LOTS of new people driving around in rental cars and trying to read a map during January, February and March.

I doubt when The Morses planned that part of Morse they never DREAMED we would be this big.

I wish the cart paths were separate from that major road and try my best to be very careful when I am driving both my car and cart in that area.

[TheVillageChicken]

Just passed through there. Two cops, and each one had someone pulled over. Both cars were Northbound.

[justjim]

Just passed through there. Two cops, and each one had someone pulled over. Both cars were Northbound.

Thanks for the heads up. Two days in a row giving out tickets! :boom:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My golly, Doc! Doesn't your cart have brakes to keep it from exceeding 20mph on the downhill or anywhere else?

Do you coast down West Boone or St. Andrews or Mark in your car without applying the brakes?

The speed limit on those roads is 25 mph. If I'm going down any of those hills at 25, mph why should I be cited for speeding? I guess I could be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since my golf cart is capable of going over 20 mph, but I would argue that every golf cart in The Villages is illegal.


Like I said, the cart that I saw pulled over yesterday going northbound on Morse was in the middle of a downhill grade just before San Marino Drive. Even if that cart is set to not exceed 19 mph on level ground with no wind, it may have gotten up over 20 on the downhill. Remember, there is no speed limit for golf carts.

My main point is that these laws are so vague that they may be unconstitutional. The conditions under which a golf cart is capable of going 20 mph should be stipulated in the law. As far as I know, except in a few spots like the Morse bridge over Lake Sumter there is no speed limit for golf carts.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

With all of the talk about lack of police presence on Morse near the scene of the accident, I'm so surprised to now see folks complaining that they are there doing their job. DONT SPEED, then you don't have to worry about it.

I do not think the police are giving out tickets for going 1 or 2 over......seriously!! And I don't think they are out "harassing" anyone either.

The people that are complaining about the police harassing the public are not the same ones complaining about the lack of police presence. I don't think that most people think that there is a lack of police presence there at all. a few over zealous people go and make a scene and the reaction is a bunch of unnecessary tickets being handed out.

I would be surprised most people think that there is any kind of a problem there at all.

I'd like to se how many accidents there have been over the past ten years and how many of them involved a golf cart and car or truck. Like I said before, I've been here for three years and can only recall two. Both were the result of an elderly person making a huge mistake. Neither had to do with excessive speed or poorly designed roadways.

Maybe we should be looking at taking driving privileges away from people of a certain age, since age or faculties seems to be more of a problem than speeding, signage or poorly marked lanes.

[Shimpy]

There's a difference between the police doing their job and harassing people for minor violations.

The US Supreme has ruled that a lot of those little towns that set themselves up as speed traps are in violation of the constitution.

In the end, the job of the police is to protect the public. Giving a ticket to a driver going 1 or 2 mph over the limit is not protecting anyone. Those drivers are not endangering anyone.

Most judges will toss out cases where a driver is cited for going 5 mph or less over the limit. They will often reprimand the officer for wasting the court's time.

Exactly,.....Does TV want to get a reputation and be on AAA's list of worst speed traps to avoid? I doubt the developer would like that. Given the tolerance of + and - of accuracy of police radar, and the fact that probably 90% of golf carts don't come with speedometers how can you ticket someone that is only going less than 1% over the limit? I have a speedometer and know that tail winds such as we have now can add 1 to 3 mph to my speed not to mention how going down hill will effect it. How does someone that buys a perfectly legal cart that doesn't come with a speedometer going to know that? If they did have a speedometer, what is the + or - accuracy of that speedometer? Giving tickets for less than 5 mph over the limit is harassment.

[dbussone]

Exactly,.....Does TV want to get a reputation and be on AAA's list of worst speed traps to avoid? I doubt the developer would like that. Given the tolerance of + and - of accuracy of police radar, and the fact that probably 90% of golf carts don't come with speedometers how can you ticket someone that is only going less than 1% over the limit? I have a speedometer and know that tail winds such as we have now can add 1 to 3 mph to my speed not to mention how going down hill will effect it. How does someone that buys a perfectly legal cart that doesn't come with a speedometer going to know that? If they did have a speedometer, what is the + or - accuracy of that speedometer? Giving tickets for less than 5 mph over the limit is harassment.


Somehow I don't think TV will get a rep for worst speed traps anymore than we might get one for worst whiners.

On the other hand, the latter might actually happen. Oh No.

Sheesh will everyone please lighten up.

[Lbmb24101]

The police should keep a dedicated force to do nothing but watch for moving violations in TV. The force will easily pay for itself.

The more tickets and the higher the cost the better.

At some point TV will gain a reputation for strict traffic violation enforcement and everybody will respond according.

Just like we all do when we get to those little towns where we KNOW if you go one mile over the speed limit you will get a ticket.

Congrats to the increased enforcement and let's be good itizens and call and thank the appropriate law enforcement office and offer words to keep up the good work.

Grrreat post, as always!

[handyman]

What I have noticed after living here full time for four years, as soon as the Big Money (Snowbirds) head home, the radar guns come out.Not looking for a bone to pick,just stating an observation.

[dbussone]

What I have noticed after living here full time for four years, as soon as the Big Money (Snowbirds) head home, the radar guns come out.Not looking for a bone to pick,just stating an observation.


Actually, my experience is the reverse. I see more "radar guys" once the "Big Money" people leave. By the way, I have no data to support this but I feel comfortable saying that you are incorrect about your assessment of snowbird bank accounts.

[Shimpy]

What I have noticed after living here full time for four years, as soon as the Big Money (Snowbirds) head home, the radar guns come out.Not looking for a bone to pick,just stating an observation.

I've noticed the same thing. During the winter there are many more targets or tickets to write. Now since the heavy traffic is gone there is much less opportunities to write tickets and they tend to get more aggressive to keep up the income from traffic fines.

[GatorFan]

At the VHA golf cart safety meeting, Lt. Wolf said they do not give tickets for speeding to a golf cart unless radar says 25 miles hour or higher. This takes into consideration downhill speed. If in doubt call Sheriff's department and ask.

[Mikeod]

At the VHA golf cart safety meeting, Lt. Wolf said they do not give tickets for speeding to a golf cart unless radar says 25 miles hour or higher. This takes into consideration downhill speed. If in doubt call Sheriff's department and ask.
My experience supports that. I was stopped by SC sheriff on Oak Forest for going 24 MPH. He asked if I had a cart or LSV. Told him it was a cart and the motor had just been replaced because the original failed. He gave me a warning and told me to get the cart serviced to bring it to legal speed. That was all.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Actually, my experience is the reverse. I see more "radar guys" once the "Big Money" people leave. By the way, I have no data to support this but I feel comfortable saying that you are incorrect about your assessment of snowbird bank accounts.

I've read both of your posts several times and I believer that you are in agreement.

I believe that overall, the snowbirds probably have more money than the full timers. I think that there are many full timers who, if they could afford to go north for a few months would. Many of us stay here year round because we cannot afford to own two homes.

[dbussone]

I've read both of your posts several times and I believer that you are in agreement.



I believe that overall, the snowbirds probably have more money than the full timers. I think that there are many full timers who, if they could afford to go north for a few months would. Many of us stay here year round because we cannot afford to own two homes.


You may be correct doc, but I love it here and have no interest in having a second home.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

You may be correct doc, but I love it here and have no interest in having a second home.

I'm sue that there are plenty of full timers who can afford a second home but choose to stay here int eh summer months. I didn't mean to imply that everyone that can afford a second home has one. But included in all of the people who stay year round are those that cannot afford a second home so it would bring the average net worth down.

[dbussone]

I'm sue that there are plenty of full timers who can afford a second home but choose to stay here int eh summer months. I didn't mean to imply that everyone that can afford a second home has one. But included in all of the people who stay year round are those that cannot afford a second home so it would bring the average net worth down.


We agree.

[DonH57]

In the high season with with everyone being back I don't see so much speeding on morse or other roads with the heavier traffic. I witness a lot more aggressive driving, horn blowing, and alternative hand gestures. Just saying.

[deestatham]

I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections. We're moving to TV in September and quite honestly, I don't ever see myself having the confidence to drive one. I love the 35MPH automobile speed limit. Felt much more confident then the 70MPH limit in my home town. But between the golf carts and the roundabouts, I was scared. I plan to take the class when we get moved in hopes that it will help me understand.

[Polar Bear]

I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections. We're moving to TV in September and quite honestly, I don't ever see myself having the confidence to drive one. I love the 35MPH automobile speed limit. Felt much more confident then the 70MPH limit in my home town. But between the golf carts and the roundabouts, I was scared. I plan to take the class when we get moved in hopes that it will help me understand.

I wouldn't be too worried. If you take the time to learn proper procedures and take responsibility for your own safety, you will be fine...both handling the roundabouts and driving a cart.

[golfing eagles]

Time to post an opinion that may be unpopular, especially with our most prolific member, but......

Golf carts----can't see any reason to go over 20, even if you can. If you go 23 when able on a 4 mile trip, you will probably only average 10.5 mph as opposed to 10 mph with stops, turns, tunnels, traffic etc. You will arrive about 45 sec sooner. I do object to practically inviting the police to run a fundraiser for going 21 mph, we have far too much government intervention as it is. Better they spend their time finding the burglars and golf cart thieves. Otherwise maybe they should camp out on the fairway of a par 5 as well.

Cars---in TV, basically the same argument---not worth the time savings, and better to put the effort into avoiding those who seem to have forgotten how to drive (or never knew)
However, as far as interstates go, I disagree with those who want tickets for 1 mph over the limit. Anyone who never gets to 66 on I-95 is probably averaging 62-63. I apologize for the dust I will leave on your windshield. Half of those people are camping out in the furthest left lane---they may never get in an accident , but they CAUSE plenty---just watch what happens the next time traffic encounters them--a mad rush to pass on the right, weaving in and out, etc. traveling 8 mph over the limit on a 1200 mi trip saves over 2.5 hrs, and is perfectly safe as long as you have the appropriate driving skills. The speed limits appear to be somewhat arbitrary on I-95---55,60,65 and 70 probably based on traffic flow or accident history, but frequently no rhyme or reason. In the years since the national 55 limit was repealed, there have been far fewer highway fatalities. Perhaps the speed limit could be linked to your driving skill. For those who want drive at 40 mph on I-95, may I suggest US 301--you won't get a ticket in Jessup, Ga

[outlaw]

I've noticed the same thing. During the winter there are many more targets or tickets to write. Now since the heavy traffic is gone there is much less opportunities to write tickets and they tend to get more aggressive to keep up the income from traffic fines.

I would think it would be just the opposite; likely voters are probably the ones who stay here around the year?

[Average Guy]

I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections. We're moving to TV in September and quite honestly, I don't ever see myself having the confidence to drive one. I love the 35MPH automobile speed limit. Felt much more confident then the 70MPH limit in my home town. But between the golf carts and the roundabouts, I was scared. I plan to take the class when we get moved in hopes that it will help me understand.

What intersections did you see golf carts not stopping? I have never seen this where I travel in The Villages.

[outlaw]

At the VHA golf cart safety meeting, Lt. Wolf said they do not give tickets for speeding to a golf cart unless radar says 25 miles hour or higher. This takes into consideration downhill speed. If in doubt call Sheriff's department and ask.

That's good to know. My gas Yamaha has a governor set for 20 mph, but when I go down a long slight downhill run it will get to 22 mph. On a level surface it tops out at 19.4 to 20.1 or 20.2. I wondered what would happen if I got shot with a radar gun. I'm glad to see common sense prevails at the sheriff's office.

[mickey100]

Time to post an opinion that may be unpopular, especially with our most prolific member, but......

Golf carts----can't see any reason to go over 20, even if you can. If you go 23 when able on a 4 mile trip, you will probably only average 10.5 mph as opposed to 10 mph with stops, turns, tunnels, traffic etc. You will arrive about 45 sec sooner. I do object to practically inviting the police to run a fundraiser for going 21 mph, we have far too much government intervention as it is. Better they spend their time finding the burglars and golf cart thieves. Otherwise maybe they should camp out on the fairway of a par 5 as well.

Cars---in TV, basically the same argument---not worth the time savings, and better to put the effort into avoiding those who seem to have forgotten how to drive (or never knew)
However, as far as interstates go, I disagree with those who want tickets for 1 mph over the limit. Anyone who never gets to 66 on I-95 is probably averaging 62-63. I apologize for the dust I will leave on your windshield. Half of those people are camping out in the furthest left lane---they may never get in an accident , but they CAUSE plenty---just watch what happens the next time traffic encounters them--a mad rush to pass on the right, weaving in and out, etc. traveling 8 mph over the limit on a 1200 mi trip saves over 2.5 hrs, and is perfectly safe as long as you have the appropriate driving skills. The speed limits appear to be somewhat arbitrary on I-95---55,60,65 and 70 probably based on traffic flow or accident history, but frequently no rhyme or reason. In the years since the national 55 limit was repealed, there have been far fewer highway fatalities. Perhaps the speed limit could be linked to your driving skill. For those who want drive at 40 mph on I-95, may I suggest US 301--you won't get a ticket in Jessup, Ga

I agree. :bigbow:

[Cobh521]

What intersections did you see golf carts not stopping? I have never seen this where I travel in The Villages.

I had to slam on my brakes leaving the Hillsborough exit because the golf car driver went through the stop sign He had no intention of slowing down or stopping.

[dbussone]

I had to slam on my brakes leaving the Hillsborough exit because the golf car driver went through the stop sign He had no intention of slowing down or stopping.


Carts vs cars will always lose. Stupid is as stupid does.

[deestatham]

What intersections did you see golf carts not stopping? I have never seen this where I travel in The Villages.


I'm not real familiar with the roads in TV so I can't remember exactly where it happened. Do the golf carts have the right of way or the cars? I was afraid someone would rear end me if I kept stopping for golf carts. I hope I get acclimated to the golf carts once I'm living there. Just don't want anyone to get hurt.

[Average Guy]

What intersections did you see golf carts not stopping? I have never seen this where I travel in The Villages.

I had to slam on my brakes leaving the Hillsborough exit because the golf car driver went through the stop sign He had no intention of slowing down or stopping.

That is an example of one cart. Fortunately, you avoided hitting the cart. Obviously, sometimes golf carts do not stop when they should. The post I was responding to stated "I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections."

Clearly, the vast majority of golf carts stop at intersections and it is a gross exaggeration to state that they do not.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections. We're moving to TV in September and quite honestly, I don't ever see myself having the confidence to drive one. I love the 35MPH automobile speed limit. Felt much more confident then the 70MPH limit in my home town. But between the golf carts and the roundabouts, I was scared. I plan to take the class when we get moved in hopes that it will help me understand.

You had 70 mph speed limits on the surface roads in your home town? Where do you come from? I've driven across many states in this country and in a few foreign countries and I've never seen a speed limit of 70 mph except on major highways.

[dbussone]

You had 70 mph speed limits on the surface roads in your home town? Where do you come from? I've driven across many states in this country and in a few foreign countries and I've never seen a speed limit of 70 mph except on major highways.


What you said. She had to live on a major interstate.

[Villager Joyce]

Maybe it is Hillsborough or because I live there I'm on the road constantly. Stop is only a suggestion does apply. Cosmos and infinity is another example. It is more of a if I can't see anyone coming, I don't stop. Pretty much the same at the intersection of Druid and hillsborough. Guess we are all the young rowdy group (that's from an earlier post insulting the people in the Brownwood area) that runs stop signs and plays their stereos too loud.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Maybe it is Hillsborough or because I live there I'm on the road constantly. Stop is only a suggestion does apply. Cosmos and infinity is another example. It is more of a if I can't see anyone coming, I don't stop. Pretty much the same at the intersection of Druid and hillsborough. Guess we are all the young rowdy group (that's from an earlier post insulting the people in the Brownwood area) that runs stop signs and plays their stereos too loud.

That's pretty much standard operating procedure for most people everywhere I have ever lived. You slow down as you approach a stop sign. If you can see a quarter mile in every direction before you get to the intersection and nothing is coming, most people proceed safely without coming to a complete stop.

This is not a Druid St thing or a Hillsborough thing or a Brownwood thing. It's done pretty much every where in the world by 90% of drivers.

[DonH57]

That's pretty much standard operating procedure for most people everywhere I have ever lived. You slow down as you approach a stop sign. If you can see a quarter mile in every direction before you get to the intersection and nothing is coming, most people proceed safely without coming to a complete stop.

This is not a Druid St thing or a Hillsborough thing or a Brownwood thing. It's done pretty much every where in the world by 90% of drivers.

That's the way we did it in the flatlands of southern Ohio. Come up to a stop sign where you can usually see 5 miles either way and stand on it! The only danger was at night because deer don't stop for stop signs either!

[graciegirl]

Being raised in a policeman's home, (I still have trouble saying "cop") is probably worse than being a preachers kid.

And my grandfather was six four.

Nobody messed with me.

But I didn't have a smart mouth like I do now.

[Villager Joyce]

That's pretty much standard operating procedure for most people everywhere I have ever lived. You slow down as you approach a stop sign. If you can see a quarter mile in every direction before you get to the intersection and nothing is coming, most people proceed safely without coming to a complete stop.

This is not a Druid St thing or a Hillsborough thing or a Brownwood thing. It's done pretty much every where in the world by 90% of drivers.

When it is a stop sign, I stop. When it is a yield sign, I yield. Guess I am a goodie two shoes. I thought I was a wild and crazy girl. This has been eye opening. I need to go to see my shrink.

[CFrance]

When it is a stop sign, I stop. When it is a yield sign, I yield. Guess I am a goodie two shoes. I thought I was a wild and crazy girl. This has been eye opening. I need to go to see my shrink.
Me too. I can see it in the "wilds" of southern Ohio like DonH57, or in the middle of Nevada, etc., but I sure don't see doing it around here. You may think you're seeing everything, but you may not be.

[DonH57]

I sure wouldn't do that anywhere in TV or anywhere. I'm amazed by the ones I've witness not only run the stop sign but turn to the right and not even look to their left before hand. My only thought at that time is, How are they still alive?

[twoplanekid]

The old rolling stop can sometimes lead to a ticket. Be safe out there.

[villagetinker]

OK, I cannot tell you the number of times over the last 18 months that I have seen LEFT turns from Hendry to Pinellas Place with no stop. I was almost broad sided by some idiot that did not look and ran the stop sign. I was on Pinellas going toward Pinellas Plaza, and idiot was on Hendry making a left, he missed hitting me by a few feet, but only because I CAME TO A COMPLETE STOP on Pinellas. this is one intersection I would love to be monitored, very few people stop.
Thank you for the rant......

[Mikeod]

My problem is with cart drivers who come out of side streets without stopping to go into the diamond lane. They may know what they intend to do, but, in my car, I don't know whether they are crossing the street or going in my direction. Just because the diamond lane is clear doesn't mean you can pull out without stopping. Some of them make such a wide turn that they enter the auto lane briefly which increases the angst for other drivers.

On the flip side, I never turn left out of my street if a cart is in the diamond lane such that I would create concern in their mind that I might cross into their lane in doing so. I always delay so they have gone by when I proceed.

[MDLNB]

Interesting that a car is only stopped for a speeding ticket IF it's going five or more mph over the speed limit, and yet a golf cart?????

Almost daily, I am behind someone driving a golf cart that drives right through ALL stop signs without even pausing. DAILY!! I have even seen cars slam on their brakes and drivers shake their heads when they have to avoid golf carts speeding through stop signs.

Even though I get a bit irritated at those carts that pass me, I have yet to see an accident resulting from a golf cart moving too fast. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the accidents I see reported are usually resulting from negligent operation, such as hitting a curb or running into a car lane and being struck by a car.

If one can operate a car at highway speeds safely, surely a golf cart going a little over 20mph can be operated safely too. I'm not condoning speeding, but I think that many of us are more upset at being passed by a faster vehicle than worrying about a vehicle moving at a little over the 20mph speed limit. I am more concerned about those who blatantly run stop signs and exit tunnels onto the cart paths without stopping to see if there is ongoing traffic. This is just my two cents worth, and I am sure that there will be plenty of those that are in disagreement. And yes, I have also been passed by golf carts on public streets, not just the cart paths. That means that they have to move out of the multimodal lanes into regular traffic lanes to do so. That puts that operator into a potential hazardous situation.

[roxy55]

I see people speeding everywhere these days including on Morse. I drive on Camino Real every morning on my way to work and pickup trucks pass me doing @ 55 MPH. I have not seen one get pulled over yet!

[PaPaLarry]

My rule of thumb for speed limits on Morse & Buena Vista is, if there are cart paths on street, its 30mph, and if there are no cart paths on street, its 35mph.

[MDLNB]

When it is a stop sign, I stop. When it is a yield sign, I yield. Guess I am a goodie two shoes. I thought I was a wild and crazy girl. This has been eye opening. I need to go to see my shrink.

No, you ARE RIGHT. Stop signs mean STOP, not pause, not speed through, just STOP. Regardless of whether there is traffic or not, the law says we stop for the STOP sign. If it was meant as a yield then it would be a yield sign instead of a STOP sign. When I was a COP, I rarely gave speeding tickets, but I would give a violation of a red light or stop sign every time I witnessed it.

[outlaw]

Interesting that a car is only stopped for a speeding ticket IF it's going five or more mph over the speed limit, and yet a golf cart?????

Almost daily, I am behind someone driving a golf cart that drives right through ALL stop signs without even pausing. DAILY!! I have even seen cars slam on their brakes and drivers shake their heads when they have to avoid golf carts speeding through stop signs.

Even though I get a bit irritated at those carts that pass me, I have yet to see an accident resulting from a golf cart moving too fast. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the accidents I see reported are usually resulting from negligent operation, such as hitting a curb or running into a car lane and being struck by a car.

If one can operate a car at highway speeds safely, surely a golf cart going a little over 20mph can be operated safely too. I'm not condoning speeding, but I think that many of us are more upset at being passed by a faster vehicle than worrying about a vehicle moving at a little over the 20mph speed limit. I am more concerned about those who blatantly run stop signs and exit tunnels onto the cart paths without stopping to see if there is ongoing traffic. This is just my two cents worth, and I am sure that there will be plenty of those that are in disagreement. And yes, I have also been passed by golf carts on public streets, not just the cart paths. That means that they have to move out of the multimodal lanes into regular traffic lanes to do so. That puts that operator into a potential hazardous situation.

"Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac" — George Carlin

[MDLNB]

Being raised in a policeman's home, (I still have trouble saying "cop") is probably worse than being a preachers kid.

And my grandfather was six four.

Nobody messed with me.

But I didn't have a smart mouth like I do now.

Being a former COP, I have no problem with the reference. As you know, COP stands for Constable On Patrol. I see nothing disrespectful in the term. That's just my two cents.

[MDLNB]

What intersections did you see golf carts not stopping? I have never seen this where I travel in The Villages.

I see it EVERY day. I find it hard to believe that you live here and have not observed it. Hard to name just one intersection. I doubt I have seen an intersection where the stop sign has NOT been violated. Tell you what, you give me an intersection North of Rt466 (I rarely travel south of 466 in the cart) and I will tell you whether or not I have witnessed stop sign violations. I doubt there is one that has been 100% conformed to.

[MDLNB]

That is an example of one cart. Fortunately, you avoided hitting the cart. Obviously, sometimes golf carts do not stop when they should. The post I was responding to stated "I was just in TV for 2 weeks and found myself scared to death of the golf carts. They don't stop at intersections."

Clearly, the vast majority of golf carts stop at intersections and it is a gross exaggeration to state that they do not.

I think you probably meant to say that "many" stop at intersections. I believe that pausing at Stop signs does NOT constitute conforming to the definition of stop. I have only lived here going on three years and have not noticed a "majority" conforming to the stop sign command to stop. I don't know what the state law dictates where you come from, but every state that I have lived in, defines the dictates of a Stop sign as coming to a complete stop and then progressing when safe to do so.

[MDLNB]

The speed limit on those roads is 25 mph. If I'm going down any of those hills at 25, mph why should I be cited for speeding? I guess I could be cited for having an unregistered vehicle since my golf cart is capable of going over 20 mph, but I would argue that every golf cart in The Villages is illegal.


Like I said, the cart that I saw pulled over yesterday going northbound on Morse was in the middle of a downhill grade just before San Marino Drive. Even if that cart is set to not exceed 19 mph on level ground with no wind, it may have gotten up over 20 on the downhill. Remember, there is no speed limit for golf carts.

My main point is that these laws are so vague that they may be unconstitutional. The conditions under which a golf cart is capable of going 20 mph should be stipulated in the law. As far as I know, except in a few spots like the Morse bridge over Lake Sumter there is no speed limit for golf carts.

I agree

[MDLNB]

THERE ARE SOME of us who stop at all stop signs AND always use our turn signals.

We are usually first born, have never been behind on a bill and still save our money. AND were born and raised in Ohio.
Sometimes we do inch past the speed limit. No one is perfect.

Excellent! Like the old saying goes, let those without sin cast the first stone.

[outlaw]

If I'm on the street, I stop at stop signs, unless I'm on my bicycle or motorcycle. Then I do a lot of roll throughs. If I'm on the MMP, I mostly do roll throughs, but sometimes I stop if I have to look back or there is a car present. I stop at all stop signs if I see a cop car.

[MDLNB]

Please point me to someone that has received a "speeding" ticket while operating a golf cart. I find it difficult to believe that you can charge for it unless that cart is on a 10-15mph residential street and exceeding the posted speed limit. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but I will bet you that the violations are being charged with operation of an unregistered motor vehicle if they are exceeding 25mph on a public road posted at 35mph. Kind of hard to charge them with speeding if the posted speed limit is more than what the cart is traveling. I have seen bikes traveling faster than that, and I doubt anyone has thought to stop them. Just saying.

[MDLNB]

If I'm on the street, I stop at stop signs, unless I'm on my bicycle or motorcycle. Then I do a lot of roll throughs. If I'm on the MMP, I mostly do roll throughs, but sometimes I stop if I have to look back or there is a car present. I stop at all stop signs if I see a cop car.

And the law dictates that you come to a complete stop at a stop sign. At yield signs, you are permitted to slow down and travel on IF safe.

[MDLNB]

I find it amazing, interesting, amusing, and alarming that many on here find it heinous that one exceed 20mph in a golf cart, and yet find it totally agreeable and normal to violate stop signs. Where I come from, a stop sign is NOT a suggestion.

[Topspinmo]

I find it amazing, interesting, amusing, and alarming that many on here find it heinous that one exceed 20mph in a golf cart, and yet find it totally agreeable and normal to violate stop signs. Where I come from, a stop sign is NOT a suggestion.

They're are lots that take it as suggestion. Especially at 4 way stops. They are NOT inline till they stop.

[outlaw]

And the law dictates that you come to a complete stop at a stop sign. At yield signs, you are permitted to slow down and travel on IF safe.

And the law dictates that you go no faster than 35 mph on BV, yet I see sheriffs vehicles routinely go a few mph over. No big deal. If there is a four way stop, and I'm in my car, I will stop and wait my turn.

[Packer Fan]

OH, you mean golf carts whose max speed limit on public streets is 20 mph. Golf cart going 21 mph is like a car going 40 in a 35 mph zone. Both should be ticketed.

REALLY??? Just not true at all. Cops don't typically ticket 40 and a 35 for many reasons, but one is the accuracy of the measurement devices (Radar/Laser, etc). Another is we have an unwritten agreement in this country that 5 MPH over the limit is "safe". But 1 mph over the limit for Golf carts? Really. The cops are after the guys who have Carts that race by you going 28 or 30, not 21.

I would really like to hear from someone who has actually GOTTEN a ticket, or knows the actual details of someone who has. I suspect the Golf cart tickets were for people going above 25, not 21.

[Packer Fan]

At the VHA golf cart safety meeting, Lt. Wolf said they do not give tickets for speeding to a golf cart unless radar says 25 miles hour or higher. This takes into consideration downhill speed. If in doubt call Sheriff's department and ask.

8 pages to get to someone who had some actual detail! Thank you so much Gator Fan - that is what I expected and I am not surprised.

[MDLNB]

REALLY??? Just not true at all. Cops don't typically ticket 40 and a 35 for many reasons, but one is the accuracy of the measurement devices (Radar/Laser, etc). Another is we have an unwritten agreement in this country that 5 MPH over the limit is "safe". But 1 mph over the limit for Golf carts? Really. The cops are after the guys who have Carts that race by you going 28 or 30, not 21.

I would really like to hear from someone who has actually GOTTEN a ticket, or knows the actual details of someone who has. I suspect the Golf cart tickets were for people going above 25, not 21.

I agree.

[coffeebean]

I'm not real familiar with the roads in TV so I can't remember exactly where it happened. Do the golf carts have the right of way or the cars? I was afraid someone would rear end me if I kept stopping for golf carts. I hope I get acclimated to the golf carts once I'm living there. Just don't want anyone to get hurt.

Cars have right of way. Car drivers should not wave on golf cart drivers at any intersection. That is my understanding and I'm sticking to it.

[billethkid]

Cars have right of way. Car drivers should not wave on golf cart drivers at any intersection. That is my understanding and I'm sticking to it.

You are correct.
And I hate to say how many near rear endings I have witnessed due to someone stopping exiting a traffic circle to be nice nice and wave golf carts through.

When in my golf cart and they wave me through I do not go. And many act frustrated that I do not.

Too many do not know the rules of the road here in TV and almost as many more who know and do it anyway.

Defensive driving...always.

[CFrance]

Cars have right of way. Car drivers should not wave on golf cart drivers at any intersection. That is my understanding and I'm sticking to it.
Yes, the theory is not to stop for golf carts because they should not come to believe that they have any right of way.

That being said, I cheat. If there's no one behind me in my car and many carts trying to get across, I wave them on. I can't help it. I was taught to drive in such a fashion as to keep the flow of traffic moving. Sorry.

[coffeebean]

When it is a stop sign, I stop. When it is a yield sign, I yield. Guess I am a goodie two shoes. I thought I was a wild and crazy girl. This has been eye opening. I need to go to see my shrink.

I don't think I'm a goodie two shoes but I do come to a complete stop at stop signs......only one exception to that is on my corner where I live in NJ. I roll through the sign when I can see there is no one coming. As for all other stop signs, I always think there is a police officer lurking to give me a ticket. If it weren't for that fear, I would definitely roll through stop signs if I can easily see the coast is clear in all directions.

No, I'm not a goodie two shoes....I do speed on the interstate and roads in The Villages. I go 5 miles over the speed limit. My bad!

[LittleDog]

Yes, the theory is not to stop for golf carts because they should not come to believe that they have any right of way.

That being said, I cheat. If there's no one behind me in my car and many carts trying to get across, I wave them on. I can't help it. I was taught to drive in such a fashion as to keep the flow of traffic moving. Sorry.

I do to as long as it doesn't impede any traffic behind me. I realize that it is against the law but I think its courteous to do this. I know when I'm in a cart trying to cross by a gate I appreciate someone waving me through. I haven't seen any near accidents because of this.

John

[CFrance]

I do to as long as it doesn't impede any traffic behind me. I realize that it is against the law but I think its courteous to do this. I know when I'm in a cart trying to cross by a gate I appreciate someone waving me through. I haven't seen any near accidents because of this.

John
Me neither, littledog. And I'm not sure it's against the law, either. I think it is against the TV guidelines. I could be wrong.

[Challenger]

bYou are correct.
And I hate to say how many near rear endings I have witnessed due to someone stopping exiting a traffic circle to be nice nice and wave golf carts through.

When in my golf cart and they wave me through I do not go. And many act frustrated that I do not.

Too many do not know the rules of the road here in TV and almost as many more who know and do it anyway.

Defensive driving...always.

I also do not go on the invitation. So often the car driver doesn"t see cars coming through the far gate and is inviting me to make a dangerous move.

"Rules of life" when you have the right away--take it. Some few common sense exceptions such as an alternating pattern in the case of large back ups

[Mikeod]

It's both funny and sad at the same time that I see cars stopping to let carts cross, but not pedestrians. If it's a crosswalk, and that includes the paver path at some gates, state law requires cars to yield to pedestrians crossing. They regularly run stings on this in Orlando at highway exits.

For me, the only time to let carts cross is when the exit lane through the gate is backed up from the RAB.

Please don't stop for carts if you can proceed normally. it just causes confusion for both car and cart drivers. I will patiently wait until it's clear to cross in my cart.

[CFrance]

b

I also do not go on the invitation. So often the car driver doesn"t see cars coming through the far gate and is inviting me to make a dangerous move.

"Rules of life" when you have the right away--take it. Some few common sense exceptions such as an alternating pattern in the case of large back ups
Well, I think littledog and I are doing the common sense exceptions. The carts that I let go at the gate have a space to stop before crossing in front of ongoing traffic. Every cart does that at the gates, whether someone let them go or not. If that space is filled, I don't stop for carts. Common sense prevails.

[Sherrie]

A lot of speeding- ***20 tickets. Some of people think it's okay to pass a car or cart on the right if they are turning left. WRONG. If you drive your car in the cart lane to pass a car turning left. TICKET and you are endangering the golf cart driver you just cut off.

[Sherrie]

I hope they stay out and make more speeders aware of what they are doing. Golf carts are beside them and the golf card Never wins! (stay in your land Mr. Car please)

[Sherrie]

Yesterday 20 speeding tickets were issued on Morse north of 466. 3 were issued to golf carts. :coolsmiley:
I hope the write more. Maybe the traffic will take another route and ease it up here.

[Sherrie]

:a040:I hope the write more. Maybe the traffic will take another route and ease it up here.

[njbchbum]

I hope they stay out and make more speeders aware of what they are doing. Golf carts are beside them and the golf card Never wins! (stay in your land Mr. Car please)

Please Mr/Ms Golf Cart - Tough it out behind that slow poke in front of you rather than enter my traffic lane passing it!

[Sophie11]

We all know it is frightful driving on Morse! Over 1000 signatures have voiced how dangerous it is.
This is the best retirement village in the world and it makes me a little uneasy when there is an obvious traffic problem and no one wants to fix it. They just keep building and bring in more traffic. I am new here and I was hoping it was an investment but if they look the other way on this what will be next? FIX the problem and if you must put it in the taxes so be it. A problem is a problem - face it.

[downeaster]

Yes, the theory is not to stop for golf carts because they should not come to believe that they have any right of way.

That being said, I cheat. If there's no one behind me in my car and many carts trying to get across, I wave them on. I can't help it. I was taught to drive in such a fashion as to keep the flow of traffic moving. Sorry.

I do to as long as it doesn't impede any traffic behind me. I realize that it is against the law but I think its courteous to do this. I know when I'm in a cart trying to cross by a gate I appreciate someone waving me through. I haven't seen any near accidents because of this.

John


As far as I am concerned your actions are acceptable. Making an obvious attempt at keeping traffic moving without endangering others makes sense. You nay find an occasional LEO agreeing.

As a cart driver I try not to make direct eye contact with the other driver. After a few seconds gesticulating they usually move on. By the way, I said direct eye contact. I have them in the corner of my eye.

[DougB]

Yes, the theory is not to stop for golf carts because they should not come to believe that they have any right of way.

That being said, I cheat. If there's no one behind me in my car and many carts trying to get across, I wave them on. I can't help it. I was taught to drive in such a fashion as to keep the flow of traffic moving. Sorry.

If there is no one behind you, what's the purpose for waving them on? Can't they just go after you?

[Polar Bear]

If there is no one behind you, what's the purpose for waving them on? Can't they just go after you?
:agree:

I know most folks who wave carts through have the best of intentions. But I do believe that simply following the rules of right-of-way is the best way to facilitate safety and efficiency. The above is a perfect example.

[CFrance]

If there is no one behind you, what's the purpose for waving them on? Can't they just go after you?
When there's five or six carts waiting behind them, it's no big deal to wave them on. Perhaps I see cars coming up behind me that will cause a traffic jam, and there is enough time to let the carts go before the cars reach the gate. Mostly this is at the St. Charles gate, a particularly busy one with carts coming off of a golf course nearby. It's a situational thing.

So sue me. I'm still going to do it.:wave:

[JoMar]

I wave them on and appreciate when they wave me on.......and will continue to do so. The car blocks that lane of traffic and the cart driver can concentrate on the other lanes. I have no knowledge of any accidents occurring and nobody on here has listed any that have happened as a result of being waved on or waving a cart on.

[outlaw]

When there's five or six carts waiting behind them, it's no big deal to wave them on. Perhaps I see cars coming up behind me that will cause a traffic jam, and there is enough time to let the carts go before the cars reach the gate. Mostly this is at the St. Charles gate, a particularly busy one with carts coming off of a golf course nearby. It's a situational thing.

So sue me. I'm still going to do it.:wave:

I wave them on and appreciate when they wave me on.......and will continue to do so. The car blocks that lane of traffic and the cart driver can concentrate on the other lanes. I have no knowledge of any accidents occurring and nobody on here has listed any that have happened as a result of being waved on or waving a cart on.

And we wonder why golf cart drivers don't know that autos have the right of way. This is what the "killing with kindness" post was all about, wasn't it?

[CFrance]

And we wonder why golf cart drivers don't know that autos have the right of way. This is what the "killing with kindness" post was all about, wasn't it?
No, it was about how not using common sense can cause an accident. The same way Boogie and others roll through stop signs when they can see darn well there is nobody coming, that's the same reasoning I and others drive to facilitate others as much as is safe.

I suppose literally OP is correct. IMO it can be done otherwise. BTW, is it a traffic law, or just the TV rules? Serious question.

[spring_chicken]

Just a quick public service announcement for those who get irritated by people passing them in their golf cart. It doesn't always mean that they want to go that much faster. I pass gas carts daily because I don't want to hear the engine noise and smell the stink from their cart.

[Chatbrat]

The older gas carts, really stink--it appears a wayward tree jumped in front of a golf cart, yesterday--the woman who was driving was transported to the hospital--if there were small children in the cart--there could have been a fatality

[outlaw]

No, it was about how not using common sense can cause an accident. The same way Boogie and others roll through stop signs when they can see darn well there is nobody coming, that's the same reasoning I and others drive to facilitate others as much as is safe.

I suppose literally OP is correct. IMO it can be done otherwise. BTW, is it a traffic law, or just the TV rules? Serious question.

I think it is against the law to stop in the middle of a street just because you decide to momentarily change right of way rules. Unless, of course, you are avoiding an accident.