The Villages-Long Term

[KayakerNC]

A lot of the amenities of The Village seem to be supported by the sales of new homes.
What happens when The Villages are sold out?
Will the contractual amenities fees rise steeply? Will The Villages be the same wonderful place when the "Owners" have departed?
I'm sure The Villages will survive, I'm just wondering if the long-term will continue to get better and better.

[graciegirl]

Things will change. They always do. However, we are all hoping, I think, that the status quo will hold until there are a whole new set of Villagers and we have gone on to the village of "Heavenly".

[Sidney Lanier]

Lovely thought, graciegirl--but it's true! Nothing stays the same, time moves on, and we need to focus on living in the present. ...

[Floridagal]

I agree. Live for now and not worry about the future. Everything always seems to turn out right. I want to enjoy life now and take one day at a time.

[redwitch]

From what I understand, part of the reason for the POA lawsuit was to make sure there was funding for the amenities. If I'm correct and if the fees are handled properly now and in the future, we should lose little when the developers leave us. A lot, of course, will depend on how the various districts handle issues. My guess would be that some areas will get better service than others simply because their districts will be doing a better job.

Other than that, I'd relax and enjoy TV as it is today. It will change. It has changed -- ask those who have been here for 10 years or longer. I've talked to a few who were part of the original Orange Blossom group. Some hate the changes. Some love them. I'm sure it will be the same for all of us as time goes by.

[SteveFromNY]

Kayaker, which amenities are supported by the developer? I was under the impression (and I'm not the expert some of the folks out here are) that each district would essentially govern itself after a certain number of years - with funding coming from the amenity charges. There are already areas doing this now - I would assume the older areas.
I understand that the town square entertainment is supported by the local stores and not the developer.
There have been some decent similar discussions related to this in recent months. Maybe you could do a search and turn some stuff up?

Not to say there won't be changes! For sure things will continue to evolve.

[KayakerNC]

Kayaker, which amenities are supported by the developer?

Just off the top of my head; the trolley, the Polo Club.

[SteveFromNY]

Just off the top of my head; the trolley, the Polo Club.


Well the trolley isn't what I think of as an amenity. It's really just a sales tour of TV.

I don't know about the polo club - I have no idea how that's managed today.

I was thinking pools and golf!

[l2ridehd]

If you think through exactly what the developers business really is, they will have a vested interest for a long time to come. Commercial real estate. Most of the stores and eating places are owned by them and rented out. Real Estate. When they first started, new home sales were 100% of their business. after a few years is was 20% resales and 80% new. Today it is getting closer to 50/50. Soon it will be 80/20 the other way. By the time they finish, it will be 100% resales. I would have to think they would be pretty dumb to give up that lucrative piece of business as they probably sell 75% of the resales in TV. Rentals. I believe other than private they have 90% of that business. So why would they go away? It would still be a huge $$$$$ business. My guess is there will be involved long after the last new house is sold.

[clekr]

The developer does not "support the amenities" - you do!. The developer constructs the amenities, sells then to the CDC, you pay for this in the bond. The monthly amenities fee pays the upkeep/maintenance of the amenties.

[zcaveman]

A lot of the amenities of The Village seem to be supported by the sales of new homes.
What happens when The Villages are sold out?


Where did you get that idea? We, the Villagers pay for the amenities. From the historic side to the far end of the south side.

[ladykathleen]

People,

Please do your research much research. The developer has used the Florida development law to charge us astronomical amounts of money for real estate valued at so much less and I am not talking about houses. If it were not for the POA (the orginal homeowners association) who is for the Villagers and the class action lawsuit, we would not be better off in the future. Please realize that the developer has only one reason to be here and only one and that is to make money, much much money by selling and misrepresenting what the villages is supposed to be about.

Remember the present developer did not create The Villages. The present concept is "a far far cry" from the orginal concept. I personally cannot wait until the management is in the hands of a (democracy) in the hands of people for the people. Our situation will be so much for the better.

[Sidney Lanier]

Well, of course the developer is here to make money! This is not a charitable institution, this is real estate development. The developer (and I use the word not to describe a specific individual but rather Harold Schwartz and his descendants) continue to invest their money into what at first was a concept that might have been uncertain, and it paid off for them--and for us, or we would not be here.... Paid off handsomely? Yes, well, good for them! "Field of Dreams": Build it and they [we] will come! And we are coming, so evidently the developer is doing something right. The developer's concept involved building the amenities first (which sadly has not been the case in other retirement developments), and we pay for them through our amenity fee. We know this when we buy here, and we accept that this is how it works.

[zcaveman]

People,

Please do your research much research. The developer has used the Florida development law to charge us astronomical amounts of money for real estate valued at so much less and I am not talking about houses. If it were not for the POA (the orginal homeowners association) who is for the Villagers and the class action lawsuit, we would not be better off in the future. Please realize that the developer has only one reason to be here and only one and that is to make money, much much money by selling and misrepresenting what the villages is supposed to be about.

Remember the present developer did not create The Villages. The present concept is "a far far cry" from the orginal concept. I personally cannot wait until the management is in the hands of a (democracy) in the hands of people for the people. Our situation will be so much for the better.


While I am for the POA do not give them that much credit. While they are an assist they are also a thorn in the butt. We will see what the class action suit gets us in the future. From today's POA news it looks like the ones that made good on the suit are wanting to bail out.

While the present developers did not create the Villages, I have to feel that they have us in mind and the covenants and bylaws have some jurisdiction over our existence.

As for a change to a democracy. be careful of what you wish for.

[graciegirl]

People,

Please do your research much research. The developer has used the Florida development law to charge us astronomical amounts of money for real estate valued at so much less and I am not talking about houses. If it were not for the POA (the orginal homeowners association) who is for the Villagers and the class action lawsuit, we would not be better off in the future. Please realize that the developer has only one reason to be here and only one and that is to make money, much much money by selling and misrepresenting what the villages is supposed to be about.

Remember the present developer did not create The Villages. The present concept is "a far far cry" from the orginal concept. I personally cannot wait until the management is in the hands of a (democracy) in the hands of people for the people. Our situation will be so much for the better.


I can tell you, in my opinion, when it does turn over to the landowners it will be far less enjoyable than it is now. We were part of a group of homeowners who bought the golf course we lived on from the developer some 30 years ago. It was the biggest mess you could dream of, the meetings waxed on about each persons favorite topic and the whole picture, the business of running a golf course soon went down the drain. One wanted new draperies, one bought new tables and chairs, soon we were running in the red. There were those who thought it wasn't "nice" to keep a dress code so soon we had drunks in bare chests teeing off. It failed big time.

Methinks, dear Lady Kathleen that you are well intended, but a little optimistic.

[ladykathleen]

Thank God for the POA. Do some research on the POA. If it were not for them we would be totally paying, paying and paying and being taken advantage of. if it were not for the POA The Villages would not be worth living here. Harold Schwartz had a plan ,his decendents have a plan only for themselves. Attend your district meetings and other meetings in other districts. Research what we have paid for "amenities". Become involved. If it were not for the class action lawsuit we all would be in financial trouble.

[graciegirl]

Kathleen. Enlighten me. I know that the POA was behind a suit that saw that the developer fixed a lot of shingles.

I am very confused why the developer is at fault for someone choosing to buy the "over priced" homes. In your perfect Villages, without the framework we now have, how would you have things be? I am so happy with how things are. I cannot see too many flaws, certainly no more than other developments anywhere else. I certainly am having difficulty understanding the problems that you see here. I am new. We have lived in our house a total of 18 days and owned it for three months. We have old friends who live here and new ones and everyone seems to think living here is the cats pajamas.

[downeaster]

You are right, graciegirl.
I, too, lived in a development that was turned over to the residents. Suddenly special interest groups started feuding. It wasn't pretty. The developer left us with a healthy bank account and they couldn't wait to spend it.
I then "discovered" The Villages. The CDD concept appealed to me. It isn't perfect but I can't think of a better one.
Ladykathleen has a good point as well. The POA may not be everyones's favorite organization but it has served the residents well. The position of watchdog is not an enviable position but I'm glad someone is doing it.

DC

[chelsea24]

I love it, love it, love it here! And I can't say enough about the developer and it's my opinion that the Morse family deserves every penny they get.

I, too, have an uncomfortable feeling about how things can change when it is in the hands of "the people." We used to go to many association meetings in Illinois, and yes, they turned into self-serving cliques, also a lot of squabbling. The Board interpreted the by-laws however they saw fit. Puh-leeeease! Not that again!

:clap2: To the Harold Schwartz and the Morse family. This was a hellova vision and I know, for me, it made my "golden" years the best they can be. :bigthumbsup:

[Russ_Boston]

Golden years Chelsea?

I didn't think that term applied to someone as young as you!

My two cents from a wannabe position:

I also live in a development that was turned over to the people. Let's just say that I hope the CDD concept is better.

The sooner that we understand the the developer, any developer, should not be criticized for how much we end up paying for our homes - the better.

POA vs. VHA - Heck, let's just keep ,use and participate in both. The more watchdogs the better I guess.

As someone mentioned earlier - It is still in the best interest of 'the family' to make sure that the TV concept continues to roll on due to their vast investment and potential resale revenue and commercial revenue. Let's not forget that 10's of millions of dollars have poured into the surrounding areas to support a population of 100K. Are we assuming that 'the family' doesn't have any other plans (maybe even owns some other nearby land?)

Russ

[chelsea24]

:-* Russ, here's a big kiss for that! Hope Mrs. Russ (Linda) doesn't mind!

Well "Golden Years" is not only age, but I feel like I'm in golden years just living here and reaching a point where I can work when I want to and still fully enjoy all the amenities of The Villages. ;D

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Harold Schwartz had a vision to give people who were not wealthy a retirement place that was wonderful.

He started to work on his vision in the 70's and now others have taken over his vision. His vision is continuing. I see The Villages continuing as it is for quite some time.

The plan if for at least 40,000 more homes to be built, that will take time. As long as there are more homes to be built The Villages has to be maintained or improve - otherwise they would not be able to sell new homes.

HB

I agree with Sidney


Well, of course the developer is here to make money! This is not a charitable institution, this is real estate development. The developer (and I use the word not to describe a specific individual but rather Harold Schwartz and his descendants) continue to invest their money into what at first was a concept that might have been uncertain, and it paid off for them--and for us, or we would not be here.... Paid off handsomely? Yes, well, good for them! "Field of Dreams": Build it and they [we] will come! And we are coming, so evidently the developer is doing something right. The developer's concept involved building the amenities first (which sadly has not been the case in other retirement developments), and we pay for them through our amenity fee. We know this when we buy here, and we accept that this is how it works.

[gfmucci]

People, remember the present developer did not create The Villages.* The present concept is "a far far cry" from the orginal concept.* I personally cannot wait until the management is in the hands of a (democracy) in the hands of people for the people.* Our situation will be so much for the better.


I hate to throw a wet blank on your utopian opinion of "democracy", but histories of condo and hoa's (homeowner "democracies") is that such developments never looked better maintained and were never as well run as when the developer of those projects had a vested interest in maintaining a high standard.* When the residents took over, with their democratic bickering and penny pinching, the quality typically takes a slow nose dive.

"The developer didn't create The Villages?"* That's a puzzler.* Who did?* The homeowners, Sumter County, Santa Claus?* The development has stayed "in the family".* And yes, the original vision changed - from a trailer park with amenities to what we have today.* That sounds like an improvement.* And your point about "the developer didn't create The Villages" is what?

[efrahin]

I like what I saw in TV and there is where I want to go asap (meaning selling my present house). I am, and figure most people in TV too, too old to start fighting the developer/s which I think have done a terrific job.

[ladykathleen]

Good Evening Graciegirl (I love your name),

The class action lawsuit came about because of several professional , extremely informed, intelligent residents who wanted to make sure we all can afford to continue living here. They committed many, many hours of research and gave of so much time. The POA reported the "happenings" and the results. Actually most of the positive results have to deal with the districts north of 466. Please attend various district meetings. You will meet, very capable financial planners, bankers, corporation presidents, managers of all types of developments. An exciting time does lie ahead for all of us.

Most of us are simply uninterested, too busy and do not want to make the effort to become informed or join. I was one of those people. Then I attended my district meeting and sat there for three hours even through all the "boring" figures (financials) I did not really understand but gave it my best try. I left there in awe of the people who run our board. My mother attended meetings when she was down here (she worked for a city hall in the mayors and attorneys office) and said it was like attending a city hall board meeting. Please don't sell your neighbors "short. Myself I could not do what they do and feel embarrassed that I cannot be of any constructive use. If I can motivate Villagers to learn about their government and at least attend various meetings and ask questions then I will have been of use.

Please remember that The Villlages is not completely built up and no negative publicity should reach the outside, though I personally don't think the present developer really doesn't give it much thought, he is so very rich. The new areas will be beautifully maintained and no all areas are not as maintained because money was lacking, however with winning the class action lawsuit money will now be available. Someone mentioned when they moved here 30 yeqrs ago the golf course across 441 was in terrible shape. Yes, this was essentially a "trailer Park". The income of those people has no relation to the income of those moving into the Villages today. Harold Schwartz could not have sold his plan unless he put money into the development.

I have no intention of being oppositional to your joy of living here. I also was in lala land until I became informed and now realize the people who care about us maintaining our way of life is us. I also was a condo president for many years. I lived there and wanted mine and others life to be quality. I had much problems with renters and landlords who bought with the sole purpose of renting. At the end of our street presently, we have a landlord who lives in Ocala, ownes several homes in the Villages and has had "bad" renters.

A very good evening to all
and a blessed Sunday

[Muncle]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/billfl/chicken-little.jpg

Before all the Chicken Littles go into panic overload about the fate of TV when the vile developer leaves after build-out, I strongly recommend that they attend the CDD classes offered each week. And read up on CDDs and Florida Statues Chapter 190. It's not a willy-nilly transition at the developer's whim. Procedures are set out in law. Oh, and if you do research 190, go to the source. Do not depend upon such organizations as the POA which have been trying to get the law repealed or drastically modified (in my opinion, solely to hurt the Morse family). http://tinyurl.com/6xku2x

And do not listen to the (here it comes) specious twaddle spouted by the POA acolytes. Yes, the POA does some good. Their constant harping about siding ended up benefiting many of us. But it is not the be all and end all for resident concerns. Even the infamous lawsuit was grossly exaggerated in it's impact. Yeah, the lawyers got their 7 mil and each of the PAO folks involved got their 50K. But the 40 mil awarded to the plaintiff area was actually chump change. Remember that after a token initial payment (I forget amount, but about 10-12 mil), the rest is to be spread over 13 years --- maybe 2.5 mil per year. That will help with maintenance and small items, but it's not going to renovate rec centers or rebuild north of 466 cart paths and tunnels to the south of 466 standard.

Long before build out, developed districts evolve from developer controlled to homeowner/registered voter control. It's complete north of 466 and it's in progress in Districts 5 & 6. The budgets and priorities in these districts are controlled by your neighbors that you elected to office.

[Irish Rover]

Leisureville??? :dontknow: Ignore the characters depicted as Villagers and focus on his (Andrew Blechman) depiction of the developers of over 55 communities. The Kool Ade tends to fog minds. Just a thought.

[graciegirl]

Leisureville??? :dontknow: Ignore the characters depicted as Villagers and focus on his (Andrew Blechman) depiction of the developers of over 55 communities. The Kool Ade tends to fog minds. Just a thought.


I don't understand. This is the only development the Morse family has done. The ones with a lot of communities is another developer. Am I correct?

I am drinking this Kool Aid again and I thought I had sworn off of it after drinking it with little four year olds at snack time for over 25 years. I don't think they would let them have it these days, Not healthy they would say.

[livsea2]

The one thing that concerns me ( and I must admit it concerns me a lot) is the "special CDD " that controls the rec centers and golf courses. It is now and always will be under the control of the developer. No residents of the villages live in that CDD so no one but the developer can control it. It has happened, especially in South Carolina, that after the development is sold out when the developer controlled the golf courses he decided the golf course wasn't needed for marketing and wasn't making enough money that land was better suited for condos!
The villagers don't own the golf courses and once development is complete they loose their marketing value? HHMMM? Shouldn't I be concerned? Just wondering. :o

[efrahin]

When elected oficials start running the show; it will be the time to pack and go.

[Irish Rover]

Graciegirl you didn't read the sentence correctly. I didn't say the Morse family had another development but there are other over 55 communities (Sun City etc.) that had problems after the developer pulled out. Liesureville discusses those other developments. I'm just thinking that everyone should be prepared for any contingency instead of living hour to hour or day to day.

[barb1191]

Well the trolley isn't what I think of as an amenity. It's really just a sales tour of TV.

I don't know about the polo club - I have no idea how that's managed today.

I was thinking pools and golf!


I was under the impression that the trolley was also a shuttle for residents going all around TV with scheduled stops at stores and clubs. Haven't been in TV for awhile; has this service been discontinued?

barb

[ladykathleen]

The developer has already sold our shopping centers. Remember he has only one and only one mind set and it has absolutley nothing to do with our welfare. He could stay here forever and still sell the golf courses for condos. After he finishes with this area (building) he does not have to pretend to provide a pleasant place for us to live. His welfare and money will no longer depend on selling "a bill of goods).

[graciegirl]

How old are most of you? How long will you live independently? I consider that for that time we will be safe. After we exit stage right, who cares?

[graciegirl]

Graciegirl you didn't read the sentence correctly. I didn't say the Morse family had another development but there are other over 55 communities (Sun City etc.) that had problems after the developer pulled out. Liesureville discusses those other developments. I'm just thinking that everyone should be prepared for any contingency instead of living hour to hour or day to day.


You are right. I speed read sometimes and didn't catch it. (I used to be blonde, sorry) But Irish, that is true in any development. We have lived on three golf courses and each has been sold. I prefer to live hour to hour and day to day. You can worry yourself into the grave. But that is just my outlook now, after a lifetime of planning and worrying and saving. The time is now. This is not a dress rehearsal. Enjoy it. If we have all invested badly, we can't take it with us for sure.

[angel222]

Hi All....

This is quite a lively discussion...I'm a TV wannabee - put my townhouse up for sale the day after I returned from a lifetime preview visit on 7/6/08. First, please explain what's CDD? Also what time frame (approximately) are we talking about before all will be sold out? I live in a townhouse community now that's going to "pot" from all the political games going on -- please tell me I can move to TV and enjoy to rest of my lifes journey.

Thanks,
Angel

[Russ_Boston]

Well I guess it depends on how much time in your life's journey :joke:

At the current rate of construction and sales the final build out of the brownwood section should be 2013/2014. If the slowdown continued it may be 2015 but then again if sales pick up at the same pace they did from 2007 to 2008 it may be sold out by 2012.

My math: To my reckoning they have about 16000 more units to build. The Morse family reported sales in the 3000 per year rate for the past 6 months. Sound about right?

[NJblue]

The one thing that concerns me ( and I must admit it concerns me a lot) is the "special CDD " that controls the rec centers and golf courses. It is now and always will be under the control of the developer. No residents of the villages live in that CDD so no one but the developer can control it. It has happened, especially in South Carolina, that after the development is sold out when the developer controlled the golf courses he decided the golf course wasn't needed for marketing and wasn't making enough money that land was better suited for condos!
The villagers don't own the golf courses and once development is complete they loose their marketing value? HHMMM? Shouldn't I be concerned? Just wondering. :o


This is a concern of mine as well. I'm hoping that some well-informed people can respond that these concerns have no merit.

[Muncle]

Well I guess it depends on how much time in your life's journey :joke:

At the current rate of construction and sales the final build out of the brownwood section should be 2013/2014. If the slowdown continued it may be 2015 but then again if sales pick up at the same pace they did from 2007 to 2008 it may be sold out by 2012.

My math: To my reckoning they have about 16000 more units to build. The Morse family reported sales in the 3000 per year rate for the past 6 months. Sound about right?


Russ, based on your calculations, which appear quite reasonable, many of us will be dead long before build-out. So, why worry too much? I had planned on living forever, but have come to the realization that that ain't gonna happen. Que sera sera.

[zcaveman]

I was under the impression that the trolley was also a shuttle for residents going all around TV with scheduled stops at stores and clubs. Haven't been in TV for awhile; has this service been discontinued?

barb


The trolley is not a shuttle. It is a guided tour of the area.

[zcaveman]

How old are most of you? How long will you live independently? I consider that for that time we will be safe. After we exit stage right, who cares?


:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[billethkid]

I have been part of transition teams from developer to home owner. The key is UNDERSTANDING, what is being inherited.....land......$$$....assets...etc...elec ting home owner representatives with the capacity and capability to communicate EFFECTIVELY with the developer REPRESENTING the home owners needs and wants. Then electing the appropriately capable people capable of managing what will be inherited.....MAINTAINING THE EXISTING LIFESTYLE they bought into.

If, the usual happens....the silent majority remains silent....then there can only be disappointment.

Things will change....that is a certainty. Foe example if/when the home owners find how much it really cost to have and maintain a polo field, etc.....I suspect the majority (hopefully) would rule against it and use the asset value for maintaining the lifestyle.

My experience was a successful one. The objective of the transition team and ultimate managing board was to maintain the lifestyle and protect and enhance property values.
The property owner community is still a thriving success (14 years hence).

I hope to live a lot longer than the developer here in TV will be around....and have no trepidations about losing what we have. Could it happen? Of course!!!! Only if we let/allow it!!!!!!!!! I did not know the Schwartz family, hence cannot comment. I do know Gary Morse and several of the family members who run/operate TV and find them very responsive and as proud of TV as you and I.

Of course they got riche and we should hope they get richer.....they have have earned what we willingly bought into eh!

BTK

BTK

[Russ_Boston]

Well said BTK.

[KayakerNC]

BTK,
My original concern was that the "Vision" of The Villages might suffer after the departure of the original owners and developers.
But....
As long as people like you remain active and involved, then The Villages will continue to be the best retirement community for all of us who are considering living, or now living, in The Villages.

Nelson