Bruce Jenner To Get Courage Award

[TheVillageChicken]

Bruce Jenner to be awarded the Courage Award by ESPN for changing his gender.

Caitlyn Jenner, Bruce's new persona, excitedly wrote on Twitter “What the hell am I going to wear?” when it was announced that the reality star was to be honored at next month’s ESPY’s with the Arthur Ashe Award for Courage.

Here are a couple of folks who apparently were not considered as worthy.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/l/t1.0-9/11113912_841644622555941_4442335019035601645_n.jpg ?oh=eb7317930d22b96785c2cc24c2ea6e71&oe=55F6E009


Lauren Hill (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/live-video-lauren-hill-mount-basketball-player-dying-of-cancer-plays-her-first-college-game), the 19-year-old Mount St. Joseph basketball player who courageously battled brain cancer while staying on the university team didn't get squat. She lost her fight against cancer on April 10.

MIND BOGGLING!

I'm pretty рissed off at the moment.

[manaboutown]

Ridiculous, of course. Sad, but not unexpected given the source of the award.

The one thing I probably unequivocally can say about Jenner now is that he/she appears to be prettier than his ex-wife. That is quite uncommon.

I would like to give Jenner an award for innovation in successfully gaining attention throughout his life. He could write the book on getting attention.

[DougB]

I don't see any pretty in Caitlyn Jenner.

[Jaggy]

I think the entire Caitlyn Jenner thing is a publicity stunt for $$$$$$... Something is just not getting it ... I understand "Mr." Jenner is not getting the complete surgery to complete his transformation into Caitlyn.. And before I get a bunch of comments on not supporting transgender, etc.. I do, but something about this hits me wrong.. Our media is out of control on this story.

[Villageswimmer]

I think if s/he really had courage, s/he would graciously decline the award in favor of a hero like Noah.

I wish him peace in his decision but it seems to be all about $$$ and limelight. I think it's an insult to other trans people to turn this into a circus all about her. Don't they see this?

[billethkid]

You owe an apology for showing a real war hero in a thread dedicated to an isolated weirdo's trek into the spotlight!

Jenner the poorest possible example of a person doing NOTHING right......does not rate to be on the same page as real people!

[Chi-Town]

Hard to believe....

52004

[billethkid]

Perfect poster displaying what is wrong with the world today!

EXtermely weary of seeing and hearing about an isolated oddball.

[onslowe]

Perfect poster displaying what is wrong with the world today!

EXtermely weary of seeing and hearing about an isolated oddball.

Fully agree. And a particularly cynical use or misuse of the word 'courage' abounds in the media. Bleating sheep tripping over each other to give serious faced accolades to a person who suffers from mental illness.

Awards mean nothing anymore. Remember Obama getting the Nobel Peace prize a few months into his first term? It reminds me of that other culture supremo, Montel Williams, having his audience give incessant standing ovations to complete misfits for walking onto his stage and not tripping or falling. Just give out praise and awards to everybody - a meritorious life of sacrifice means squat to the ever so progressive lobbies.

[kansasr]

First of all, nobody was "picked ahead" of anyone else. Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. I suggest checking snopes.com before going off the deep end.

Second, this is ESPN and the ESPY awards. What do you expect from an organization that lionizes people because they can throw a ball or were born with good genes.

[TheVillageChicken]

First of all, nobody was "picked ahead" of anyone else. Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. I suggest checking snopes.com before going off the deep end.

Second, this is ESPN and the ESPY awards. What do you expect from an organization that lionizes people because they can throw a ball or were born with good genes.

I'm a long way from the deep end.

[Happinow]

This boggles my mind. The media needs to find something better to do other than watch Bruce Jenner 24/7. Courage to me is the firefighter who Goes into a burning building to rescue someone, or the medic who brings one back to life, or every man and woman who fight for our country, or the person who donates an organ.....I could go on and on. However, Bruce/Caitlin Jenner doesn't even come me close to someone I'd nominate for a courage award.....an attention seeker award....probably.

[George Bieniaszek]

I don't see any pretty in Caitlyn Jenner.

HA HA!! Maybe after a bunch of drinks :)

But in all seriousness, I can think of tens of thousands that should get the award for courage - our veterans that stepped in harm's way to defend our freedoms, many who never came back home.

This is a media circus with 24/7 coverage of Jenner and the Kardashians!

[RedChariot]

I think the entire Caitlyn Jenner thing is a publicity stunt for $$$$$$... Something is just not getting it ... I understand "Mr." Jenner is not getting the complete surgery to complete his transformation into Caitlyn.. And before I get a bunch of comments on not supporting transgender, etc.. I do, but something about this hits me wrong.. Our media is out of control on this story.

Inside Edition tv show just said he will make 500 million from all this. Oops! She will make 500 million.

[DonH57]

I don't see any pretty in Caitlyn Jenner.

Same here. Kind of reminded me of Ginger on Gilligan's island.:cry:

[golf2140]

Maybe give him the award if someone cuts off his testicals

[dewilson58]

Maybe give him the award if someone cuts off his testicals


That is nasty, but I'm with you..............but now I'm nasty. O well.

[Chi-Town]

Fully agree. And a particularly cynical use or misuse of the word 'courage' abounds in the media. Bleating sheep tripping over each other to give serious faced accolades to a person who suffers from mental illness.

Awards mean nothing anymore. Remember Obama getting the Nobel Peace prize a few months into his first term? It reminds me of that other culture supremo, Montel Williams, having his audience give incessant standing ovations to complete misfits for walking onto his stage and not tripping or falling. Just give out praise and awards to everybody - a meritorious life of sacrifice means squat to the ever so progressive lobbies.

Bring Obama into the thread, liken him to Montel Williams, and then move on to the ever so progressive lobbies. No need for a Guest pass to the Political Forum.

[Topspinmo]

I think the entire Caitlyn Jenner thing is a publicity stunt for $$$$$$... Something is just not getting it ... I understand "Mr." Jenner is not getting the complete surgery to complete his transformation into Caitlyn.. And before I get a bunch of comments on not supporting transgender, etc.. I do, but something about this hits me wrong.. Our media is out of control on this story.

:BigApplause: I agree nothing but keeping names in the wacky lime light. The ex getting paid for her interviews as we speak, next will be the talk shows circuit for the bunch. All getting paid for nothing.

[billethkid]

Maybe give him the award if someone cuts off his testicals

Those are gone!
I do not really know for sure but I thought that was a major element(s) of trans-gender.

[RickeyD]

Mr. Jenner needs a psychiatrist. That's all I will say about this.

[Jaggy]

Those are gone!
I do not really know for sure but I thought that was a major element(s) of trans-gender.

Nope.. they are still there.. as much as I hate to admit it, I read about what operations he had ( nose, boobs, etc) but he said no to the "BIG" take it off operation!!

[graciegirl]

Nope.. they are still there.. as much as I hate to admit it, I read about what operations he had ( nose, boobs, etc) but he said no to the "BIG" take it off operation!!

He said on his public interview that he was still attracted to women.

And he gave his political leanings too.

[Bay Kid]

This is what our country is coming to.... Everything is upside down. World embarrassment.

[kstew43]

I firmly believe that every person has the right to choose to change there look/gender if they should desire. The choice is there's alone.

But....Being given an award for his courage/ability to change himself..........I think other deeds are better deserving

[billethkid]

This is what our country is coming to.... Everything is upside down. World embarrassment.

I disagree.
This is what the special interest groups, their lawyers, their politicians all amplified by the biased media would have evrybody think is normal or right.

Turn off the electronic connections and go out and about and travel and take in a whole different world that is much like most of us grew up with. People are usually friendly. The don't care what your race or religion or politcal leaning is or is not.....and they certainly don't care what sex preference you have walking down the street.

We should demand equal time from all our sources information to advise us about the good things that are going on around us.....you know....what the other 95% of the human race is ACTUALLY doing and saying. What a treat that would be!

[George Bieniaszek]

!!!

[billethkid]

!!!

Ahhhhhh...the picture that defies all the words and arm waving.......thanx for sharing it.

[manaboutown]

Inside Edition tv show just said he will make 500 million from all this. Oops! She will make 500 million.

What some folks will do for half a billion bucks!

Well he is not female (in appearance if not genetically) from top to bottom - yet, if he ever will be.

Fame and fortune for this? What a world!

[Thnonne]

This is an insult to all those who have won this award in the past including the namesake Arthur Ashe, it cheapens the award they won and deserved.

[rubicon]

The Noble Peace Prize to Obama and the Courage Award to Jenner are both deserving in equal merit.....or not

The 24/7 fuss by the mainstream media is not surprising. It fits their social agenda

Britianna Spears, Miley Cirus or Charlie Sheen some folks just love a train wreck but then the Romans thought events in their coliseums were entertaining. What is wrong with our society that we would encouraging people suffering so emotionally to be allowed to become fodder for the public.

And we find the immoral Hollywood profiteers pimping Jenner off for profits

The progressive secularist lamented that Jenner had finally found his soul. Strange I thought secularist did not believe in the soul? And if there is no soul then Jenner is just material and if Jenner is just material then he can't become she because he has" he DNA" and that is not going to change.

Jenner is said not to have had a sexual re-assignment (interesting term). So
doesn't that present a dilemma socially sexually emotionally?

A leading expert (can't remember his name) has been treating gender identity cases for over 30 years and said the worse ting these folks could or have done is to try and trans gender it never ends up well

[Barefoot]

I firmly believe that every person has the right to choose to change there look/gender if they should desire. The choice is there's alone.

But....Being given an award for his courage/ability to change himself..........I think other deeds are better deserving

Obviously Caitlyn Jenner doesn't deserve this award when there are clearly so many others that are more inspirational and more deserving. I totally agree with the comments that she does not deserve the Courage Award.
She should insist the Award be given to someone more deserving.
However I agree with kstew. This is Jenner's business and he/she should have the right to choose her look/gender.

[Mudder]

It's an award for athletes who have shown courage. As an athlete Jenner has done what few others have been able to do. Having been known as a great athlete all his life, but yet to have the inner struggle of feeling like being in the wrong body was not easy. To feel like a fraud for his whole life is very stressful. Transgender people are at a point now where gays were about 20 years ago......and look how far the world has come in acceptance. Hopefully trans people will enjoy that same acceptance. People, it's not about sex, it's about their inner soul. I honestly don't know if Caitlyn Jenner deserves the award this year, and she certainly doesn't need or really want money. She just wants to live her authentic life. Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

[TheVillageChicken]

It's an award for athletes who have shown courage. As an athlete Jenner has done what few others have been able to do. Having been known as a great athlete all his life, but yet to have the inner struggle of feeling like being in the wrong body was not easy. To feel like a fraud for his whole life is very stressful. Transgender people are at a point now where gays were about 20 years ago......and look how far the world has come in acceptance. Hopefully trans people will enjoy that same acceptance. People, it's not about sex, it's about their inner soul. I honestly don't know if Caitlyn Jenner deserves the award this year, and she certainly doesn't need or really want money. She just wants to live her authentic life. Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

Alternately, one could say that Bruce Jenner is a ghoulish, self-promoting freak who decided it would be to his advantage to transition from a butt ugly male victim of botched plastic surgery to a butt ugly female impersonator...a role where caricature is the norm.

[Barefoot]

Alternately, one could say that Bruce Jenner is a ghoulish, self-promoting freak who decided it would be to his advantage to transition from a butt ugly male victim of botched plastic surgery to a butt ugly female impersonator...a role where caricature is the norm.

Sadly discriminatory - do you talk about homosexuals the same way as you do about trans gender?

[Polar Bear]

I think Jenner should be able to do what he did/she does think is best. I have no problem with that. My problem is with ESPN.

For Caitlyn to choose her desired path is fine, even possibly courageous. But I simply cannot put it in the same category as those athletes who are making the most of their lives following severe war injuries, cancer diagnoses, or other such ordeals...with no choice in the matter and without millions of dollars as a reward.

[sunnyatlast]

Is nothing private?

Our right to privacy is a hallowed one for which our nation continues to fight.

As celebrities fight tooth and nail to dump their private lives onto every t.v. or computer screen possible, our nation fights for privacy of our emails and everything we send across internet.

Hollywood is a p**s poor excuse for educators in this society, but that is what they are. They've been educating children that "privacy" means absolutely nothing--just bare it all and focus on attention-seeking behavior. The more attention you can get, the better. It will help you run for public office later on, too--an added bonus.

[judynlee]

Good for you, Mudder! Well said!

[Barefoot]

Good for you, Mudder! Well said!
:agree:

[TheVillageChicken]

Sadly discriminatory - do you talk about homosexuals the same way as you do about trans gender?


In order to be discriminatory, one has to take action, not express opinions. I am not in any position to discriminate. I don't hire people, am not a landlord, provide no services, don't decide who lives or dies, etc. If you mean to say that I am prejudiced, then, yes, I am, as are all humans. As far as I can determine, I have the right to have prejudices and the right to opine...strongly if I choose.

[Barefoot]

Alternately, one could say that Bruce Jenner is a ghoulish, self-promoting freak who decided it would be to his advantage to transition from a butt ugly male victim of botched plastic surgery to a butt ugly female impersonator...a role where caricature is the norm.

In order to be discriminatory, one has to take action, not express opinions. I am not in any position to discriminate. I don't hire people, am not a landlord, provide no services, don't decide who lives or dies, etc. If you mean to say that I am prejudiced, then, yes, I am, as are all humans. As far as I can determine, I have the right to have prejudices and the right to opine...strongly if I choose.

Then we agree to disagree about discrimination. So be it.
However we do agree on the point that there are people more deserving of the Award than Jenner.
And that is the subject of this thread.

Wikipedia doesn't agree with your definition of discrimination:
"Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit .... Not all discrimination is based on prejudice".
I'm not a goody two-shoes, but I think discrimination or prejudice or bigotry is wrong, and you think prejudice is OK.
Not everyone has the same point of view. Peace.

[Eve2278]

It's an award for athletes who have shown courage. As an athlete Jenner has done what few others have been able to do. Having been known as a great athlete all his life, but yet to have the inner struggle of feeling like being in the wrong body was not easy. To feel like a fraud for his whole life is very stressful. Transgender people are at a point now where gays were about 20 years ago......and look how far the world has come in acceptance. Hopefully trans people will enjoy that same acceptance. People, it's not about sex, it's about their inner soul. I honestly don't know if Caitlyn Jenner deserves the award this year, and she certainly doesn't need or really want money. She just wants to live her authentic life. Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

Enough said, and well said Mudder!

[rubicon]

Wikipedia doesn't agree with your definition of discrimination:
"Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit .... Not all discrimination is based on prejudice".
I'm not a goody two-shoes, but I think discrimination or prejudice or bigotry is wrong, and you think prejudice is OK.
Not everyone has the same point of view. Peace.

There is a term in the business community referred to as discriminating fairly to explain the rationale for different pricing of a product for different subsets people etc. This is a simplistic definition but serves the purpose

On a personal note I believe that a small number of people discriminate solely based on color creed or gender. I believe that more people discriminate because of the actions of others. For example when you see or hear of Thomas Sowell vis a vis Snoop Dog what crosses your mind? and if you include Enemein ( white rapper) does your opinion change as respect Snoop Dog. it probably won't if you do not like rap.

I would vote for Thomas Sowell as president in a New York second not only for his great accomplishments but because of his manner in which he dealt with adversity.

Johnny Mathias one of the best singers ever to perform on a stage is homosexual. He handled his life in a dignified manner or at least had the sense to contain any bad publicity. Compare his actions to Bruce Jenner's

I played golf with and have worked out along side homosexuals in this community. They have handled themselves in a dignified and respectable manner and I have responded in kind. The LGBT issue is a complex one. There is only one certainty for me. I simply want this nation to continue the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. It can be done without discriminating against anyone and it will prevent a pandora's box being opened for every conceivable demands made by unreasonable and irrational people

[RickeyD]

Wikipedia doesn't agree with your definition of discrimination:

"Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit .... Not all discrimination is based on prejudice".

I'm not a goody two-shoes, but I think discrimination or prejudice or bigotry is wrong, and you think prejudice is OK.

Not everyone has the same point of view. Peace.



There is a term in the business community referred to as discriminating fairly to explain the rationale for different pricing of a product for different subsets people etc. This is a simplistic definition but serves the purpose



On a personal note I believe that a small number of people discriminate solely based on color creed or gender. I believe that more people discriminate because of the actions of others. For example when you see or hear of Thomas Sowell vis a vis Snoop Dog what crosses your mind? and if you include Enemein ( white rapper) does your opinion change as respect Snoop Dog. it probably won't if you do not like rap.



I would vote for Thomas Sowell as president in a New York second not only for his great accomplishments but because of his manner in which he dealt with adversity.



Johnny Mathias one of the best singers ever to perform on a stage is homosexual. He handled his life in a dignified manner or at least had the sense to contain any bad publicity. Compare his actions to Bruce Jenner's



I played golf with and have worked out along side homosexuals in this community. They have handled themselves in a dignified and respectable manner and I have responded in kind. The LGBT issue is a complex one. There is only one certainty for me. I simply want this nation to continue the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman. It can be done without discriminating against anyone and it will prevent a pandora's box being opened for every conceivable demands made by unreasonable and irrational people


[emoji122]🏻 well said...

[plrbr1120]

Should get the Darwin award.

[kittygilchrist]

:barf:

[Chi-Town]

Should get the Darwin award.
That's funny.

[TheVillageChicken]

I have read a lot of opinions that state that if Bruce Jenner thinks he is a woman, then he is a woman. I have struggled with this and due to my engineering background, I had to develop some tests in order to form my own opinion.

1. I am on the Titanic. After the Captain announces "Women and Children First", he then announces "If there are no more women or children, the oldest males may board the life rafts." Bruce Jenner comes and cuts in front of me and says, "Not so fast, old man." Do I defer?

2. I am in a waiting room. All the seats are taken. Bruce walks in. Do I offer him my seat?

3. I am playing golf with Bruce for money. He insists on using the ladies tee boxes. Do I agree?

Based on my scientific studies, I am no longer on the fence.

[DougB]

I have read a lot of opinions that state that if Bruce Jenner thinks he is a woman, then he is a woman. I have struggled with this and due to my engineering background, I had to develop some tests in order to form my own opinion.

1. I am on the Titanic. After the Captain announces "Women and Children First", he then announces "If there are no more women or children, the oldest males may board the life rafts." Bruce Jenner comes and cuts in front of me and says, "Not so fast, old man." Do I defer?

2. I am in a waiting room. All the seats are taken. Bruce walks in. Do I offer him my seat?

3. I am playing golf with Bruce for money. He insists on using the ladies tee boxes. Do I agree?

Based on my scientific studies, I am no longer on the fence.

You and Bruce both get sentenced to prison. Big inmate named Catfish says he needs a new lover, do you defer to Bruce?

[DonH57]

You and Bruce both get sentenced to prison. Big inmate named Catfish says he needs a new lover, do you defer to Bruce?

"Catfish, this is Caitlyn. Caitlyn, this is Catfish." :wave:

[Walt.]

Let's face it. ESPN is only interested in attracting eyeballs to their awards show. No different than all those other stupid awards shows with actors giving each other awards every week.
Does anybody actually care what Jenner does or doesn't do... or have?

[billethkid]

I didn't care for the past 70 odd years whether the guy next to me was anything other than what we all, for the most part, look and act like in every day life.

What is currently annoying is the insistence and the in everybody's face what the non conformists (trying to be polite) want or think we should do about and for them.

I frankly am tired of hearing about it and seeing it every single day. This does not mean anything more than tired of having it in my face every single day.

[dewilson58]

I didn't care for the past 70 odd years whether the guy next to me was anything other than what we all, for the most part, look and act like in every day life.

What is currently annoying is the insistence and the in everybody's face what the non conformists (trying to be polite) want or think we should do about and for them.

I frankly am tired of hearing about it and seeing it every single day. This does not mean anything more than tired of having it in my face every single day.

I'm with u Mr. Bill

[Taltarzac725]

Bruce Jenner to be awarded the Courage Award by ESPN for changing his gender.

Caitlyn Jenner, Bruce's new persona, excitedly wrote on Twitter “What the hell am I going to wear?” when it was announced that the reality star was to be honored at next month’s ESPY’s with the Arthur Ashe Award for Courage.

Here are a couple of folks who apparently were not considered as worthy.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/l/t1.0-9/11113912_841644622555941_4442335019035601645_n.jpg ?oh=eb7317930d22b96785c2cc24c2ea6e71&oe=55F6E009


Lauren Hill (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/live-video-lauren-hill-mount-basketball-player-dying-of-cancer-plays-her-first-college-game), the 19-year-old Mount St. Joseph basketball player who courageously battled brain cancer while staying on the university team didn't get squat. She lost her fight against cancer on April 10.

MIND BOGGLING!

I'm pretty рissed off at the moment.

I agree that there are far better choices for this award than an Olympic athlete who was on a Wheaties box who decided to change his gender after decades of anxiety and the like about his sexual identity. I kind of think this is as some said all about ratings and the ads they can get big bucks from these high ratings.

I disagree about the Oscars, Emmys, Tonys, etc. as these are usually based on the votes of other people in that same field not necessarily just the actors but all of the people who are part of these various associations.

[onslowe]

I didn't care for the past 70 odd years whether the guy next to me was anything other than what we all, for the most part, look and act like in every day life.

What is currently annoying is the insistence and the in everybody's face what the non conformists (trying to be polite) want or think we should do about and for them.

I frankly am tired of hearing about it and seeing it every single day. This does not mean anything more than tired of having it in my face every single day.

I agree wholeheartedly and I know many many people who feel the exact same way.

[DougB]

Almost 2200 hits and 54 posts on a thread about a subject everyone is tired of hearing about everyday?

[Barefoot]

It's an award for athletes who have shown courage. As an athlete Jenner has done what few others have been able to do. Having been known as a great athlete all his life, but yet to have the inner struggle of feeling like being in the wrong body was not easy. To feel like a fraud for his whole life is very stressful. Transgender people are at a point now where gays were about 20 years ago......and look how far the world has come in acceptance. Hopefully trans people will enjoy that same acceptance. People, it's not about sex, it's about their inner soul. I honestly don't know if Caitlyn Jenner deserves the award this year, and she certainly doesn't need or really want money. She just wants to live her authentic life.

Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

Make that 55 posts.
I think it is very true -- ”Until you walk in someone's shoes, you really have no right to make judgements".

[graciegirl]

Make that 55 posts.
I think it is very true -- ”Until you walk in someone's shoes, you really have no right to make judgements".

I don't know anyone personally who has wanted to be another gender. I think few have known others who have wanted to be another gender. That is the reason the whole issue is troubling and emotionally charged. I think that not his angst is in question, but why he chose to not do it more privately.

People have instinctive reactions on a lot of levels toward others sexual behavior in public. I think that this is kind of like that.

I know a lot of gay people and I may know a lot of cross dressers, but if I do, I don't know WHO they are. I have known males who act feminine and females who act masculine.

Most of us are comfortable in our own sexuality and our partners, but even our kids may be uncomfortable about knowing or hearing of ours and we may not want to know too much about theirs.

It seems to be instinctive to choose our partner and have sex privately.

I am not making sense, even to me. So I guess I will stop typing.

I do understand that his gender change may be troubling and confusing to a lot of people and it seems to engender a lot more reaction from males.

It is because most of us cannot understand at all personally or from personal relationships what has happened to him and why he has made these choices. We are not bad for being confused or unable to make sense of it.

[Bay Kid]

He was a hero when I was younger, now BS.

[Taltarzac725]

Miami: Seventh Trans Woman Murdered in U.S. in 2015 | Advocate.com (http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/02/20/miami-seventh-trans-woman-murdered-us-2015)

Perhaps more empathy with transgenders will curb the violence that is often thrown at them. Bruce Jenner's award and the attention he gets from that may help this especially if he handles himself with some class. Arthur Ashe certainly did that. Arthur Ashe | Conscious Leader, Humanitarian, Educator and Athlete - Home (http://www.arthurashe.org/)

[dewilson58]

Almost 2200 hits and 54 posts on a thread about a subject everyone is tired of hearing about everyday?

It's like a car accident................everyone is rubber necking.

[Barefoot]

I don't know anyone personally who has wanted to be another gender. I think few have known others who have wanted to be another gender. That is the reason the whole issue is troubling and emotionally charged. I think that not his angst is in question, but why he chose to not do it more privately.

Gracie, probably you do know trans gender people, but they are in the closet, like gays were back in the day.
Remember the elderly spinster school teacher who taught algebra (oh sorry, that was just at my school).
Bruce Jenner chose not to come out privately because he wants to bring the trans gender community out of the closet.
Twenty years ago, homosexuality was thought to be disgusting and a weird choice that people made.
Now we know that gay people are born that way, and it's not a choice at all, just genes, nothing to be frowned upon.

[DougB]

Gracie, probably you do know trans gender people, but they are in the closet, like gays were back in the day.
Remember the elderly spinster school teacher who taught algebra (oh sorry, that was just at my school).
Bruce Jenner chose not to come out privately because he wants to bring the trans gender community out of the closet.
Twenty years ago, homosexuality was thought to be disgusting and a weird choice that people made.
Now we know that gay people are born that way, and it's not a choice at all, just genes, nothing to be frowned upon.


Bogie....... Bare used the "e" word!

[CathyandSteveG]

I do know 2 transgender people....My son in laws brother....became a woman....and while in Canada having the surgery...he met a woman who was there to have surgery to become a man.

You guessed it....norman became katrina.....kendra became ken...and they have lived together for 13 years.

They did it quietly....

Bruce/Caitlyn...is an attention whore. Plain and simple. He has lived his life in the spotlight...cashing in on fame and made a fortune. I watched the interview where he said he was not going to complete the process to become a woman. To me...that statement speaks volumes. If indeed he did this and is speaking out on behalf of others and wants to set an example....then finish what you have started.

This is about MONEY...this is about ATTENTION.

[Barefoot]

Gracie, probably you do know trans gender people, but they are in the closet, like gays were back in the day.
Remember the elderly spinster school teacher who taught algebra (oh sorry, that was just at my school).

Bogie....... Bare used the "e" word!

:1rotfl: When I was in high school, I thought people in their 40s were elderly.
Now I know it is people over 80 who are elderly.
When I get to 80, it will be people over 100. :icon_wink:

[Villager Joyce]

Just a thought. If Bruce became Caitlin without explanation, how would the absence of Bruce be explained?

[Barefoot]

18 years ago Elle DeGeneres came out and gays have been better accepted as a result of it.
Bruce Jenner is now trying to accomplish better acceptance for the trans gender community.
I wish him well. He obviously has a tough road ahead, with much hostility, ridicule and questioning of his motives.

[CFrance]

I don't know anyone personally who has wanted to be another gender. I think few have known others who have wanted to be another gender. That is the reason the whole issue is troubling and emotionally charged. I think that not his angst is in question, but why he chose to not do it more privately.

People have instinctive reactions on a lot of levels toward others sexual behavior in public. I think that this is kind of like that.

I know a lot of gay people and I may know a lot of cross dressers, but if I do, I don't know WHO they are. I have known males who act feminine and females who act masculine.

Most of us are comfortable in our own sexuality and our partners, but even our kids may be uncomfortable about knowing or hearing of ours and we may not want to know too much about theirs.

It seems to be instinctive to choose our partner and have sex privately.

I am not making sense, even to me. So I guess I will stop typing.

I do understand that his gender change may be troubling and confusing to a lot of people and it seems to engender a lot more reaction from males.

It is because most of us cannot understand at all personally or from personal relationships what has happened to him and why he has made these choices. We are not bad for being confused or unable to make sense of it.
I wonder if the fact that you have not ever known someone who wanted to switch genders is because they were afraid to take the step, knowing the social problems it would cause (evidenced by this thread). Just as in the past gays were afraid to come out of the closet for many reasons. As far as you wishing he would do it more privately, Gracie... he doesn't have the luxury of privacy. He is a famous person constantly followed by reporters and photographers, and he does not have the ability to live a private life. If I were in that position, I know I would be outed anyway, so why not use my situation to engender more understanding/education of the public. Bring the topic to the forefront and develop more awareness. That is what gays did.

I think it is a brave thing that he has done. I don't think it is publicity mongering. I cannot imagine making such an abrupt change in my lifestyle and trying to keep it private when my life as a celebrity is already so public. And I applaud him for his bravery, and his son for defending him. Live and let live. How is what he has chosen to do going to hurt anyone?

[graciegirl]

I wonder if the fact that you have not ever known someone who wanted to switch genders is because they were afraid to take the step, knowing the social problems it would cause (evidenced by this thread). Just as in the past gays were afraid to come out of the closet for many reasons. As far as you wishing he would do it more privately, Gracie... he doesn't have the luxury of privacy. He is a famous person constantly followed by reporters and photographers, and he does not have the ability to live a private life. If I were in that position, I know I would be outed anyway, so why not use my situation to engender more understanding/education of the public. Bring the topic to the forefront and develop more awareness. That is what gays did.

I think it is a brave thing that he has done. I don't think it is publicity mongering. I cannot imagine making such an abrupt change in my lifestyle and trying to keep it private when my life as a celebrity is already so public. And I applaud him for his bravery, and his son for defending him. Live and let live. How is what he has chosen to do going to hurt anyone?

Again. This time I wasn't talking about him, his motives and his reasons. I was talking about the people who find this hard to understand. I think that being a cover girl is a little too much. He could have shown up at some gala and been photographed but again I think it is the pleasure he gets from wearing women's clothes that is just a little much to understand and I really don't want to share. A nice three piece suit would have sufficed nicely.

As I tried to say before, sometimes figuring it out is instinctively troubling. Too close to disturbing thoughts and images. We are only people and most of us are not mean people. How he has chosen to present himself is engendering all of this talk and this interest because it is very different. It leaves me with the same kind of troubled thoughts as when I saw a set of twins with one body on a Television show in the last few years. You wonder, you are somewhat shocked and yet you hurt for them . There are so many unanswered questions, about who they are and how they will be for all of their lives. We like things, us humans, to be easily understood, and sometimes things aren't easily understood.

Many kind people are struggling with absorbing all of this. The emotions that come with the effort are unbidden.

[mickey100]

It's an award for athletes who have shown courage. As an athlete Jenner has done what few others have been able to do. Having been known as a great athlete all his life, but yet to have the inner struggle of feeling like being in the wrong body was not easy. To feel like a fraud for his whole life is very stressful. Transgender people are at a point now where gays were about 20 years ago......and look how far the world has come in acceptance. Hopefully trans people will enjoy that same acceptance. People, it's not about sex, it's about their inner soul. I honestly don't know if Caitlyn Jenner deserves the award this year, and she certainly doesn't need or really want money. She just wants to live her authentic life. Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

Unfortunately, this was one of the few posts that wasn't nasty, narrow minded, or mean spirited. Sad.

[graciegirl]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism

[sunnyatlast]

Well maybe it's just me and the assumed low IQ we "bigots" are told makes us so stupid.

But I'm still trying to figure out how Bruce got a Y chromosome replaced wth an X chromosome, to truly become a woman.

One thing is pretty certain, though. He does have the millions to buy all this surgery, hormonal treatments for life, and custom tailoring to make designer clothes/costumes that fit..... earned from the price of admission people are paying to see this circus side show, like they wanted to see the fat lady or the midget.

As P. T. Barnum so aptly stated, "There's a sucker born every minute."

And Caitlyn's cashing in under the Big Top.

[RickeyD]

Well maybe it's just me and the assumed low IQ we "bigots" are told makes us so stupid.

But I'm still trying to figure out how Bruce got a Y chromosome replaced wth an X chromosome, to truly become a woman.

One thing is pretty certain, though. He does have the millions to buy all this surgery, hormonal treatments for life, and custom tailoring to make designer clothes/costumes that fit..... earned from the price of admission people are paying to see this circus side show, like they wanted to see the fat lady or the midget.

As P. T. Barnum so aptly stated, "There's a sucker born every minute."

And Caitlyn's cashing in under the Big Top.


Good ole PT would cash in on him put him in the freak show for sure.

[RickeyD]

Unfortunately, this was one of the few posts that wasn't nasty, narrow minded, or mean spirited. Sad.


Narrow minded = there are rules
Open minded = there are no rules

[Barefoot]

Narrow minded = there are rules
Open minded = there are no rules

Dictionary Definitions

Narrow-minded | Define Narrow-minded at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/narrow-minded)

dictionary.reference.com/browse/narrow-minded
having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased. 2. not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.

Open-minded | Define Open-minded at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/open-minded)

dictionary.reference.com/browse/open-minded
having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments. 2. unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.

[CathyandSteveG]

There is a difference in having an opinion about the transgender community and a particular individual.

I have much compassion for those who are struggling in the transgender community....i have them in my family...i treat them with respect just like i do everyone else. I do my best to understand their situation.

This thread is about Bruce Jenner and the way he has decided to handle his personal life...very publicly. He has always been about money and fame...and his "personal struggles" have always been public. I do not admire him for the way he has chosen to live his life....and never have...my feelings about him have not suddenly changed because he is now transgendered. I find him an appalling human being...whether he is male or female....and he certainly is not my hero. He may bring more attention to the transgendered community...but will it truly be positive? or will it do more harm than good?

Ellen DeGeneres came out as a lesbian woman with dignity and grace. She was not an embarrassment. She was HERSELF.....and to me there is a huge difference between Ellen and Bruce.

The espn award is a private award...they can choose to bestow it upon anyone they choose. I don't have to agree with who they pick. My personal feeling is Bruce Jenner doesn't deserve an award of any kind...for anything. He once was a great athlete....he got his awards that he deserved and i was proud of his accomplishments. He has lived a controversial life since then and continues to do so. Why does he deserve an award for that?

[RickeyD]

Dictionary Definitions

Narrow-minded | Define Narrow-minded at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/narrow-minded)

dictionary.reference.com/browse/narrow-minded
having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased. 2. not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.

Open-minded | Define Open-minded at Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/open-minded)

dictionary.reference.com/browse/open-minded
having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments. 2. unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.


So, if I'm correct, an open minded "individual" is receptive to new ideas but is not allowed to disagree with them because logically if that person were to disagree then he would no longer be open minded but rather closed minded. Basically, open minds = let the flood gates open to any and all perversion, their is no absolute truth, let individuals do whatever so forth and so on. Excellent way to maintain an orderly society.

[Barefoot]

So, if I'm correct, an open minded "individual" is receptive to new ideas but is not allowed to disagree with them because logically if that person were to disagree then he would no longer be open minded but rather closed minded. Basically, open minds = let the flood gates open to any and all perversion, their is no absolute truth, let individuals do whatever so forth and so on. Excellent way to maintain an orderly society.

I think an open-minded individual is receptive to new ideas. Of course he is free to agree or disagree.
I think a close-minded person won't even consider a new idea because he is unable to be impartial.
I don't think it's a valid supposition that accepting the fact that some people are gay or trans gender will "open the flood gates to any and all perversion".
People once thought that giving women the right to vote would lead to the downfall of our country.

I don't feel Jenner deserves an award for his coming out.
But I do feel he /she is coming out publicly to shine a light on a topic which has often been misunderstood.
It's a topic that brings out strong responses. Obviously everyone has a right to his or her opinion.
I respect all posters and their comments.

[dominick]

Are those freaks with trans-species identity issues next to beg for attention and acceptance??
Count me as "all in".... I've always wanted to be a ****zu

[dewilson58]

If he/she is charged in the Malibu deadly car crash and If he/she has to serve time................does he/she go to male jail or female jail???? Is our system ready???

[Jima64]

Are those freaks with trans-species identity issues next to beg for attention and acceptance??
Count me as "all in".... I've always wanted to be a ****zu

To me they arent't freaks but yes they are already seeking attention. Bruce just figured out the best way to make a living off it and get the mega attention he has always wanted as a athlete.

[dominick]

So they aren't freaks if they really want to marry their cocker spaniel or strongly identify with trees?? Don't laugh, trans-species identity issues are the next big thing

[Patty55]

Until you walk in someone's shoes you really have no right to make judgements.

Sure, like any of us could walk a mile in her stilettos.

[BobandMary]

I really like you guys. Moving soon...