Sinkhole In Sabal Chase

[janmcn]

According to an article in the on-line news, a sinkhole opened up on the Homer Ave cul-de-sac in Sabal Chase Tuesday afternoon. The hole is estimated to be 8 feet wide by 8 feet long and 20 feet deep. It is situated in the front lawn, just off the street and partially under the driveway, although the concrete has not given way yet.

The homeowner left home earlier in the day, but was alerted of the sinkhole by community watch. They are waiting for a repair crew to show up. They are also waiting to hear if their insurance will cover the costs to repair the hole.

A neighbor said that another sinkhole had been filled in a few years ago in that same area.

[justjim]

Terrible news. A sinkhole can open up anywhere in Central Florida. Wasn't there a "task force" working on possible changes in the insurance laws regarding sinkholes? Anybody know the results.

[graciegirl]

Terrible news. A sinkhole can open up anywhere in Central Florida. Wasn't there a "task force" working on possible changes in the insurance laws regarding sinkholes? Anybody know the results.

I expected to hear this. After a period of no rain and then getting a lot of rain at one time we usually hear of a sinkhole. The picture of this looked near the curb.

The one last year was very unusual in it's size and was under a corner of their home..

[sunnyatlast]

We've seen this movie before. So before northerners claim "we don't have such a thing here in OUR state (translated "paradise...never mind the sliding ice mountain on the roof")" and "Florida is nothing but hot, buggy, swampy and full of sinkholes…", consider:

Neighbor-retired engineer: "I’ve had a lot of experience with sinkholes. We used to have them at least once a year on our 180 acre Harley manufacturing property in Pennsylvania — often in the parking lot."

Map showing the U.S. sinkhole areas:

US sinkhole map - Map of sinkholes in the US (http://strangesounds.org/2013/07/us-sinkhole-map-these-maps-show-that-around-40-of-the-u-s-lies-in-areas-prone-to-sinkholes.html)

[Cisco Kid]

Now that you all know that "Florida is nothing but hot, buggy, swampy and full of sinkholes…"
Want to trade , we are going to be a cool 94*here today. Humidity only 68%
:a20:

[sunnyatlast]

Now that you all know that "Florida is nothing but hot, buggy, swampy and full of sinkholes…"
Want to trade , we are going to be a cool 94*here today. Humidity only 68%
:a20:

Notice I said they "claim"…..as in declare without ever having been here for even an hour.

[janmcn]

We've seen this movie before. So before northerners claim "we don't have such a thing here in OUR state (translated "paradise...never mind the sliding ice mountain on the roof")" and "Florida is nothing but hot, buggy, swampy and full of sinkholes…", consider:

Neighbor-retired engineer: "I’ve had a lot of experience with sinkholes. We used to have them at least once a year on our 180 acre Harley manufacturing property in Pennsylvania — often in the parking lot."

Map showing the U.S. sinkhole areas:

US sinkhole map - Map of sinkholes in the US (http://strangesounds.org/2013/07/us-sinkhole-map-these-maps-show-that-around-40-of-the-u-s-lies-in-areas-prone-to-sinkholes.html)



http://www.myfloridacfo.com/Division/consumers/understandingCoverage/Guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf


The big difference is that in other states residents are able to buy sinkhole insurance which is not always the case in Florida. If these residents don't have separate sinkhole coverage, their catastrophic ground collapse coverage will not cover the cost of filling this hole because the house is not deemed uninhabitable.

[cmj1210]

http://www.myfloridacfo.com/Division/consumers/understandingCoverage/Guides/documents/Sinkholes.pdf





The big difference is that in other states residents are able to buy sinkhole insurance which is not always the case in Florida. If these residents don't have separate sinkhole coverage, their catastrophic ground collapse coverage will not cover the cost of filling this hole because the house is not deemed uninhabitable.


One good reason to buy a new home.

[rubicon]

One good reason to buy a new home.

I didn't know that purchasing a new home was a guarantee that an insurance company would extend sinkhole insurance in Florida. good to know

[joldnol]

They were pumping the one on hillsbourgh with concrete yesterday

[asianthree]

One good reason to buy a new home.

Not all insurance companies have sinkhole insurance on new homes.

[janmcn]

An update in the on-line news says that the sinkhole was filled in today with clean fill and the company is confident it will hold. The owner said she thinks they will have to pay for the work, but she will make some calls to the insurance company.

[Topspinmo]

I got sink hole insurance on resale I brought. Course they came out and inspected first. Wasn't as bad as tornado bullseye insurance in Okieland. I also got flood insurance all cheaper than insurance in Ok.

[babbgene]

Where did you get the sinkhole insurance on a resale? I have been looking for this. Thank you

[Paper1]

These sinkholes can be unsettling as it is just a crapshoot as who draws the short straw. I find it hard to believe (actually I don't) the lawmakers in this state turned their backs on honest homeowners instead of taking on the dishonest sector of the population that took advantage of the old insurance coverage and the bottom feeding portion of Florida's legal community who helped them. I know there is a group in the Villages trying to come up with a alternative to the poor coverage we have now. Does any know who to get a hold of if you are one of the unfortuate ones who develops a sinkhole. It seems to me you would be very exposed to getting taken to the cleaners if you don't know where to go and who to talk to. For example this thread here, who did owners contact? What is procedure? Is the developer a help at all?

[GatorFan]

Sinkhole coverage would not pay for this loss. There has to be structure damage. Land is not covered.

[graciegirl]

These sinkholes can be unsettling as it is just a crapshoot as who draws the short straw. I find it hard to believe (actually I don't) the lawmakers in this state turned their backs on honest homeowners instead of taking on the dishonest sector of the population that took advantage of the old insurance coverage and the bottom feeding portion of Florida's legal community who helped them. I know there is a group in the Villages trying to come up with a alternative to the poor coverage we have now. Does any know who to get a hold of if you are one of the unfortuate ones who develops a sinkhole. It seems to me you would be very exposed to getting taken to the cleaners if you don't know where to go and who to talk to. For example this thread here, who did owners contact? What is procedure? Is the developer a help at all?

If you lived in California and there was an earthquake. would you expect or could you expect the builder of your development to help you?

[babbgene]

What insurance companies are selling sinkhole insurance for Pre-owned homes?

[Paper1]

If you lived in California and there was an earthquake. would you expect or could you expect the builder of your development to help you?
You mis-understood my question. I was not asking for the developer to pay, I was asking for guidance if it did happen. Are you saying no one has any advice as to whom to talk to and it is every man for himself?

[RickeyD]

What insurance companies are selling sinkhole insurance for Pre-owned homes?


HoleState Insurance

[graciegirl]

You mis-understood my question. I was not asking for the developer to pay, I was asking for guidance if it did happen. Are you saying no one has any advice as to whom to talk to and it is every man for himself?

I am sorry I misunderstood you. I apologize.

I know that the people who repair show up and I am guessing that Community Watch has that information.

[vette]

They were pumping the one on hillsbourgh with concrete yesterday

I wasn't aware that there was another sinkhole on Hillsbourgh! Where is that one?

[golfing eagles]

Please feel free to disagree if I am naïve, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but....
According to the US Geologic Survey, TV is approx. 32 sq mi = 5280x5280x32=892,108,800 sq ft. If the avg lot is 10,000 sq ft and the avg home footprint 4,000 sq ft(probably high), then the odds of a single sinkhole on your property is 1:89,211 and opening under your structure 1:223,027. Also, according to the USGS map, there have been approx. 30 sinkholes in all of Sumter County reported since 1954. The FL DEC map shows somewhat more, but they include septic system collapse and water main breaks on their map. So lets go with 2 sinkholes/year in the confines of TV (also probably high).
If you have a total loss, you are covered under "catastrophic ground collapse" term of your insurance. You need "sinkhole" coverage if you have damage but the home is still inhabitable. So let's say the average repair cost of non-catastrophic sinkhole damage is $100,000---this would mean from the homeowner's perspective, the 50/50 cost effective odds of sinkhole insurance (if you can get it) would be 45 cents/year!!
Now, from an insurer's perspective, they can expect an average payout of $200,000/year in TV. Last Census data shows about 17,000 homes in TV, and if they charge $500/year for sinkhole insurance and everyone buys, they take in 8.5 million/year in premiums, so WHY IS THIS INSURANCE HARD TO GET?????? Better yet, maybe I'll go into the sinkhole insurance business, unless of course the cost of government regulation is 6 billion/year lol

[twoplanekid]

I wasn't aware that there was another sinkhole on Hillsbourgh! Where is that one?

I saw a firm pumping something into a hole in a yard between a house and Hillsborough Trail near the Dunedin pool this past week.

[golfing eagles]

Actually, let me correct myself. A sinkhole insurer would only pay out $200,000/year if both proposed sinkholes caused non-catastrophic damage to both homes, which already is a 1:223,027 proposition. So they expected payout is 90 cents/insured home or $15,300/year for 17,000 homes. Not bad for 8.5 million in premium, but keep in mind I am not an actuary

[outlaw]

Please feel free to disagree if I am naïve, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but....
According to the US Geologic Survey, TV is approx. 32 sq mi = 5280x5280x32=892,108,800 sq ft. If the avg lot is 10,000 sq ft and the avg home footprint 4,000 sq ft(probably high), then the odds of a single sinkhole on your property is 1:89,211 and opening under your structure 1:223,027. Also, according to the USGS map, there have been approx. 30 sinkholes in all of Sumter County reported since 1954. The FL DEC map shows somewhat more, but they include septic system collapse and water main breaks on their map. So lets go with 2 sinkholes/year in the confines of TV (also probably high).
If you have a total loss, you are covered under "catastrophic ground collapse" term of your insurance. You need "sinkhole" coverage if you have damage but the home is still inhabitable. So let's say the average repair cost of non-catastrophic sinkhole damage is $100,000---this would mean from the homeowner's perspective, the 50/50 cost effective odds of sinkhole insurance (if you can get it) would be 45 cents/year!!
Now, from an insurer's perspective, they can expect an average payout of $200,000/year in TV. Last Census data shows about 17,000 homes in TV, and if they charge $500/year for sinkhole insurance and everyone buys, they take in 8.5 million/year in premiums, so WHY IS THIS INSURANCE HARD TO GET?????? Better yet, maybe I'll go into the sinkhole insurance business, unless of course the cost of government regulation is 6 billion/year lol

I think there are about 50,000 homes in TV, now. Average lot size more like 4000 sf. And maybe the damage assessment is closer to $200,000. But in the final analysis, one would think that sinkhole liability would be very reasonable for an insurance company. I don't understand why it is so difficult to buy sinkhole insurance, either. I wonder why the residents, or the developer, haven't created a COOP to provide this insurance.

[golfing eagles]

I think there are about 50,000 homes in TV, now. Average lot size more like 4000 sf. And maybe the damage assessment is closer to $200,000. But in the final analysis, one would think that sinkhole liability would be very reasonable for an insurance company. I don't understand why it is so difficult to buy sinkhole insurance, either. I wonder why the residents, or the developer, haven't created a COOP to provide this insurance.

Raise some venture capital and I'm in :MOJE_whot:

[outlaw]

Raise some venture capital and I'm in :MOJE_whot:

Wait a minute. YOU raise some venture capital, and I'M in. Just kidding. Actually, I would be happy to join a co-op, but I am past looking for a money maker. I'm now in spending mode. I do wonder what we are not considering, though, since I assume the developer has already looked at this and determined that it isn't a money maker.

[golfing eagles]

Wait a minute. YOU raise some venture capital, and I'M in. Just kidding. Actually, I would be happy to join a co-op, but I am past looking for a money maker. I'm now in spending mode. I do wonder what we are not considering, though, since I assume the developer has already looked at this and determined that it isn't a money maker.

I would assume that not only the developer but all the insurance companies have already looked into it. There may be legislative and regulatory risks and costs that are hard to quantify. There may be public perception risks, such as "this should be included in my policy already, why do I have to pay more" or some such nonsense. The nature of sinkholes is somewhat random so there could be a risk of getting hit by far more than the expected number of claims. If that is the case, the regulatory risk would be a law passed that requires a huge amount of money being held in escrow to cover that unlikely scenario, much the same as the PBGC (Pension benefit guarantee ) requires huge reserves to cover adverse market conditions. Remember, insurance cos. don't gamble, they only offer a sure thing (for them). Then there would be the cost of more adjusters, more arguments of whether it is really a sinkhole or some microscopic depression in the ground, the inflated cost of repairs once the contractors know it is covered by insurance, etc.
All in all, I'm in the spending mode as well. On the other hand, MY idea, YOUR capital works fine for me LOL:thumbup:

[graciegirl]

I think there are about 50,000 homes in TV, now. Average lot size more like 4000 sf. And maybe the damage assessment is closer to $200,000. But in the final analysis, one would think that sinkhole liability would be very reasonable for an insurance company. I don't understand why it is so difficult to buy sinkhole insurance, either. I wonder why the residents, or the developer, haven't created a COOP to provide this insurance.

Because the sinkhole insurance on a state level was being abused. People were turning in fraudulent claims.

This led to changes being made a couple of years ago. I will see if I can find the information and link it here.

There are many explanations of this. Type in words similar to these; sinkhole fraudulent claims insurance Florida, or law changed in 2009.

It is a statewide problem, although most sinkhole activity is in West-Central Florida, with the Tampa area having the most.

Here is one link;
New Florida law takes aim at sinkhole fraud - NetQuote (http://www.netquote.com/home-insurance/florida-sinkhole-insurance)

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I saw a firm pumping something into a hole in a yard between a house and Hillsborough Trail near the Dunedin pool this past week.

There was work at that location to repair the aftermath of a (contractor-involved) power outage earlier this week. Repair work included excavation and filling. That may have been what you were seeing.

Don

[Paper1]

I am sorry I misunderstood you. I apologize.

I know that the people who repair show up and I am guessing that Community Watch has that information.
No apology required here. I just think these sinkholes are a dark cloud over everyone and it is frustrating not being able to get reasonable insurance. We have houses built up the entire east coast shoreline with taxpayer backing. It is just a failure of leadership in Florida.

[outlaw]

No apology required here. I just think these sinkholes are a dark cloud over everyone and it is frustrating not being able to get reasonable insurance. We have houses built up the entire east coast shoreline with taxpayer backing. It is just a failure of leadership in Florida.

Not anymore. I know people that are selling their million dollar waterfront homes in Tampa because their FEMA flood insurance is getting ready to cost tens of thousands of dollars per year. One of these people says their flood insurance was going to go to $30,000 per year.