Course Conditions - Part 2

[kcrazorbackfan]

Has anyone else noticed that since we have started getting some rain and the courses are greening up that there hasn't been the continual whining and complaining about course conditions as before, from some? The whiners and complainers must think the course superintendents can wave a magic wand and everything be okay.

Picture this scene; a beautiful 36 hole course with a regulation 4 hole teaching academy and the only holes playable are the academy and the back 9 of one 18. That's what's happening now at the courses I managed in north KC because the others are UNDER WATER.

[bagboy]

Has anyone else noticed that since we have started getting some rain and the courses are greening up that there hasn't been the continual whining and complaining about course conditions as before, from some? The whiners and complainers must think the course superintendents can wave a magic wand and everything be okay.

Picture this scene; a beautiful 36 hole course with a regulation 4 hole teaching academy and the only holes playable are the academy and the back 9 of one 18. That's what's happening now at the courses I managed in north KC because the others are UNDER WATER.

You are absolutely right. Water, preferably good old natural rainwater, is a golf course superintendents best friend...and ours also.

[newguyintv]

Has anyone else noticed that since we have started getting some rain and the courses are greening up that there hasn't been the continual whining and complaining about course conditions as before, from some? The whiners and complainers must think the course superintendents can wave a magic wand and everything be okay.

Picture this scene; a beautiful 36 hole course with a regulation 4 hole teaching academy and the only holes playable are the academy and the back 9 of one 18. That's what's happening now at the courses I managed in north KC because the others are UNDER WATER.

Don't see what this has to do with ****ty condition of the Fairways and Rough at Havana as recently as this Monday. Oh yes, they were green color except for the numerous patches of dirt in the rough. Pretty bad when you can't tell where the green fairway ends and the green rough begins. Haven't been to Orange Blossom since about 2 weeks ago but it's condition was crappy enough that my group requested that I not book it again in the near future.

[Bosoxfan]

Has anyone else noticed that since we have started getting some rain and the courses are greening up that there hasn't been the continual whining and complaining about course conditions as before, from some? The whiners and complainers must think the course superintendents can wave a magic wand and everything be okay.

Picture this scene; a beautiful 36 hole course with a regulation 4 hole teaching academy and the only holes playable are the academy and the back 9 of one 18. That's what's happening now at the courses I managed in north KC because the others are UNDER WATER.

I'm sorry but if the courses outside the villages are in better shape then there's a problem ! There is absolutely no reason why our courses shouldn't be the best kept courses around!! Also why are some of the courses throughout the villages in much better shape than others?

[tomwed]

Someone pointed out to me how well maintained Sand Hill, Turtle Mound, Roosevelt and Truman are. They have the same person in charge of their care. I have always been of the opinion that considering the play the execs get they are in good shape.

Now I am of the opinion that the super mentioned above knows something that some of the others don't and they could all benefit by his know how. I know it's a guy because the golfer gave me this information pointed him out.

[bagboy]

It's still about the water and the source of water golf courses have. One course can have access to deep water well (s), lakes and deep ponds etc. While another golf course nearby doesn't have that luxury. Some courses even have the ability to move water from pond to pond therefor giving them the opportunity to apply water to their entire course. I have worked with superintendents and I know there is more to grooming and maintaining a golf course than an average golfer can imagine.
That said, I can't offer reasons or explanations for sub par areas on courses, ours or off campus. I have found our courses in good to great shape many times, and a little sketchy at other times. I think it's the nature of the beast. If I found conditions to be consistently good on a particular course, I would play it often. Consistently bad conditions... I would probably pass and maybe try it again down the road sometime.

[waynet]

so, if it's all about water why do they keep planting the same old grass and not replace it with the newer strains that need much less water? Opportunities were missed at Orange Blossom and Tierra already. This is my major complaint. The powers running the golf operation are still using 80's technology and it's 2015!

[JGVillages]

so, if it's all about water why do they keep planting the same old grass and not replace it with the newer strains that need much less water? Opportunities were missed at Orange Blossom and Tierra already. This is my major complaint. The powers running the golf operation are still using 80's technology and it's 2015!
This is spot on. The courses were also built with very little soil base. When you try to grow grass on a primarily sandy base you accomplish 2 things. Costs very little to build, and grass will not root sufficently to give good course conditions. For years we have heard the water story ~ too much / too little. It does make a difference but the general course construction is the problem.

[johnboy]

With 12 championship courses of which 10 have 27 holes, that represents 34 foresomes going out every 8 minutes. At an average of $30 per person, that is over $1000 every tee time. With that kind of income it is obvious that the money is not be put back into the courses. Neighboring courses don't even come close to that sort of income and yet they maintain better conditions than we do here.

[tomwed]

With 12 championship courses of which 10 have 27 holes, that represents 34 foresomes going out every 8 minutes. At an average of $30 per person, that is over $1000 every tee time. With that kind of income it is obvious that the money is not be put back into the courses. Neighboring courses don't even come close to that sort of income and yet they maintain better conditions than we do here.
How did you come up with 34 foursomes?

[wholman66]

Until all golfers realize that course maintenance is the responsibility of everyone who sets foot on the course, conditions of the courses will not change. Just think about how many people play The Villages courses, many of which have never set foot on a course. Could they be better, you bet, but until we "all" do our part, probably not, it would help if more golfers stayed on the cart paths with their carts, repaired ball marks on the green, sanded divots and raked sand traps. Just my opinion, and we all have one..

[CatskillBill]

How did you come up with 34 foursomes?

I guess he figured 10 courses have 3 nines (30) and 2 have just a front & back (4)= 34

[kaydee]

played The Oaks at HH today and both the fairways & greens in excellent shape

[kcrazorbackfan]

Don't see what this has to do with ****ty condition of the Fairways and Rough at Havana as recently as this Monday. Oh yes, they were green color except for the numerous patches of dirt in the rough. Pretty bad when you can't tell where the green fairway ends and the green rough begins. Haven't been to Orange Blossom since about 2 weeks ago but it's condition was crappy enough that my group requested that I not book it again in the near future.

I've learned the short time I've been here, that you can't please everyone. We played both Havana and OB the last couple of weeks and found nothing wrong with them, then again, I learned to play golf on some pretty crappy muni courses and these are heaven compared to them.

[Greg Nelson]

The free courses close to us in the 'northern subs' have always been just fine. Of course here in Minnesota where there are a half dozen courses near by that range from ok to excellent. The course we belong to 'Green Valley' started out as a bean field! But for less than $400 a season per couple and get this..you can bring your dog! (weekdays only and with no problems)

[red tail]

The free courses close to us in the 'northern subs' have always been just fine. Of course here in Minnesota where there are a half dozen courses near by that range from ok to excellent. The course we belong to 'Green Valley' started out as a bean field! But for less than $400 a season per couple and get this..you can bring your dog! (weekdays only and with no problems)

I have never met anyone from Minnesota that didn't think it was the greatest place on earth! I could never figure it out. weather and taxes are both outrageous, but the love never wavers. I was raised in Michigan and retired from Hawaii but I love florida the best!

[Greg Nelson]

Red Tail the weather here is ideal in the SUMMER! 82/68 today. But winters here are a very long bad trip. I'll be back in TV on November 1st in Quail Ridge and then 3 months on Islamorada. Not much golfing there, but lots of water activities. SCUBA/snorkel/fishing etc.

[red tail]

atta boy, I guess you have the best of both worlds!

[Greg Nelson]

We sold our home in Mexico along the border with Belice last fall. My wife wanted to buy in TV but when I said ok BUT she pay half, that ended that for now. Then my advisor from Fidelity said we could live on what we have, with no major pitfalls until in our 90's. He made the point that would mean no big house buying. Yes, I'm thankful for all we have. Renting just makes good sense...for now....we live 40 miles east of Fargo in a county with 412 lakes and it is beautiful...got the top down on the Thunderbird!

[tomwed]

I guess he figured 10 courses have 3 nines (30) and 2 have just a front & back (4)= 34
If you send off golfers all day long on all 3 nines at the same time 8 minutes apart wouldn't they run into each other when they play 18 holes?

[bagboy]

The newer strains of grass developed over the last decade or two have been mostly for greens, and some for seaside courses who have salt air. And even some of those grasses can be watered with a water/salt water mix. As for the fairways that we golf on in the south, Tifway419 has been the industry standard for over 40 years. There hasn't been major development with respect to fairway turf grass. A good root system depends on the roots taking hold, going down into the sandy soil, and finding water. Water. So the too little too much argument usually is very valid. That argument of course should never cover up laziness or ineptness when it comes to management/staff on any golf course. And since most complaints seem to be directed at the lushness of turf, or lack thereof, it appears the "grooming" of the golf courses is being done properly. I have no idea who the superintendents and decision makers are here in The Villages, but I have to believe they are highly qualified individuals, or they would not have been hired by the developer or golf management in the first place.

[mickey100]

There have been a number of changes in the maintenance companies that take care of the golf course maintenance, in the past year, due to poor performance. The Developer contracts out the maintenance, and if the contractors don't perform, they get dropped and replaced. The problem is, when a course gets really run down, as some of them are, it takes more than a month or two for them to come back. Hopefully these new companies that have been hired will do a better job, and we'll be seeing better conditions later in the year.

[johnboy]

How did you come up with 34 foursomes?

Lopez has 3 nine hole courses. At 7:28am a foresome goes out on all 3 courses. That 3 foresomes for each of the 10 Championship courses for a total of 30 foursomes. Tierra and OB only have 2 nine hole courses, that 4 more foresomes going out at 7:28. Then at 7:36 34 more foresomes go out, this continues until the last tee time of 9:28 for the 1st wave. Then at 11:56 it starts all over again with 34 more foresomes going out each tee time through 1:28.

[tomwed]

Lopez has 3 nine hole courses. At 7:28am a foresome goes out on all 3 courses. That 3 foresomes for each of the 10 Championship courses for a total of 30 foursomes. Tierra and OB only have 2 nine hole courses, that 4 more foresomes going out at 7:28. Then at 7:36 34 more foresomes go out, this continues until the last tee time of 9:28 for the 1st wave. Then at 11:56 it starts all over again with 34 more foresomes going out each tee time through 1:28.

I understand now.

It's every 8 minutes from 7:28 until 9:28 =120 min=60 golfers

And again from 11:56 until 1:28.=90 min=44 golfers

The potential daily income for a course at $30/person is 30x104 is about $3,000/day.

That sounds right and makes sense.

[johnboy]

If you send off golfers all day long on all 3 nines at the same time 8 minutes apart wouldn't they run into each other when they play 18 holes?
Laurel goes to Riley / Riley goes to Cherry / Cherry goes to Laurel. Tee times are only for 2 hours from 7:26 thru 9:28. Then the 2nd wave starts at 11:56 thru 1:28 That is why they don't run into each other.

[Edjkoz]

Played Sweetgum today. This course should definitely be closed for at least a month. There are no greens. Every green is brown with only very sparse grass. You literally cannot putt. In addition, on more than one hole, the hole was collapsing in on itself. It is a disgrace that they keep this course open

[joldnol]

Pelican Needs to be closed for the summer

[dbussone]

Pelican Needs to be closed for the summer


No, forever.

[CatskillBill]

Havana not too bad. Riley Grove great fairways, but losing their greens. Not worth the $$$$$

[Challenger]

No, forever.

Really Bad- greens are gone-- Also Palmetto is in trouble- Have never seen greens this bad- anywhere

[robin76]

What course did you manage in KC?

[newguyintv]

Really Bad- greens are gone-- Also Palmetto is in trouble- Have never seen greens this bad- anywhere

Well perhaps you should have played Lopez today, Ashley/Torri. Greens were aerified about 3 weeks ago (5/27) and today were in the most deplorable condition I've ever seen at that course. This is a maintenance issue and a management I don't give a damn attitude. Anyone who played there today who doesn't think the greens are pathetic simply doesn't have a clue about what course conditions should be like.

[Bogie Shooter]

Played Volusia this AM (6/15), every part of this course is in perfect condition.

[JGVillages]

Played the "recently rennovated" OBH today and the greens are awful.

[kcrazorbackfan]

What course did you manage in KC?

Paradise Pointe Golf Complex.