Interesting take on The Villages

[Taltarzac]

The Villages, Florida.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section~content=a768593178~db=all~start=768593205~ fulltext=713240929~dontcount=true

This is rather heavy reading but has some interesting stuff in it. :o :read:

Checked link March 14, 2009.

[Russ_Boston]

Heavy? I think I just earned some college credits by finishing this piece :joke:

[ejp52]

I need a beer. :o ;D

[Taltarzac]

With Leisureville, TOTV, the Villages Daily Sun, this linked article, and other stuff they could probably create a college course on TV.

[Blondie]

Hmmm...talk about a negative slant. :o

[redwitch]

Definitely food for thought. I do believe there are some valid points in the article but the author seemed to fixate on the negative to the point that the whole article became irrelevant.

[beady]

This is an amazing article, and,like other posts have said, almost worthy of being the basis for a college course. Heavy reading for sure . Thanks Tal for the link.

I am afraid I do not agree with the conclusions and the negative assessment of TV.

[chuckinca]

I gave up after trying to read the first paragraph.

[jadebox]

I do speed reading and it still made me crossed eyed before I got to the end. Thanks anyway for the link. Knew most of the stuff but still interesting---I think ???

[SteveFromNY]

Interesting read. Seems to have taken more issue with the false history of the area "documented" by the developer than anything else though. Seemed more pointless than negative to me. Unless someone found offensive the fact that the buildings in SS are not historically accurate, or that Silencio Sanchez didn't exist, I'm not sure what the article's point was. It accurately describes a successful development with some hype about it being a "hometown" (and one could argue that where one lives is by definition "hometown"), some colorful faux historical markers, golf cart access to give people a sense of being on permanent vacation, and "consuming" (which I guess is a negative way of saying eating out, shopping and going to the movies). Well, I kind of like all that stuff.
Thanks for posting the article Tal.

[Taltarzac]

I thought this was really interesting.

"While CDDs are technically a form of local government, officials working for them are exempt from traditional rules meant to minimize conflict of interest by the Florida Statute governing CDDs (F.S. 190). This gives wide latitude for questionable Board behaviour since the boards are initially controlled by individuals appointed by the developer. In the case of The Villages, appearances of potential conflicts of interest have been frequent. The creation of the initial Villages CDDs was endorsed by Sumter County in 1992 following review and recommendation of the county's attorney Randall Thornton. Immediately following the County's support of the CDD, Thornton was also hired by the newly created Villages CDD, earning him over $US200,000 for his work for The Villages while simultaneously earning a $US90,000 annual salary for his work with the county (Sargent & Campbell 2000)."
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section~content=a768593178~db=all~dontcount=true~f ulltext=713240929~start=768593209


Checked link August 27, 2008.

[MMC24]

I need a nap after reading this . . . . .z z z z z z z z

[ebliss1]

I actually got a bit of a kick out of this. This article, like a lot of Leisureville, seems to be focusing on the idea that the authors believ that most of the people in TV are having the wool pulled over their eyes by the development company. From what I can determine from reading on these boards and in other media, most of the TV residents are not having the wool pulled over their eyes, but rather embracing the presented show. This is rather like people who go to Disney and get into the spirit of the thing and enjoy the ride without focusing on the "hey - thats not a person, its a realistic looking robot" aspect of the attraction. The difference is that the TV residents have made a life out of the concept - just like the Disney guests who wish they never had to go back home after the vacation time is up. Everyone knows there is no long-established history to the place, but no one is there for the historical accuracy, so why portray the attempt to add color and interest as some sort of sinister plot hide the fact that the developers are making money on the deal. As long as everyone is happy with the way things are going, why make an issue out of it?

[SteveFromNY]

As long as everyone is happy with the way things are going, why make an issue out of it?



My sentiments exactly, and part of what I was trying to say. You've summed it up well.

:bigthumbsup:

[Taltarzac]

My sentiments exactly, and part of what I was trying to say. You've summed it up well.

:bigthumbsup:


Except for the Mr. Midnight and other tales of characters in TV, it seems like this article by Hugh Bartling has the same meat of the arguments made by the author of Leisureville Andrew Blechman in his book.

Blechman seems to be a better writer though than Bartling. Bartling's article is in academic speak.

[ladykathleen]

Read the second page of the article very very slowly and over and over. We are paying and will pay oh so much in the future. I hope everyone has lots of money. Our "vacation" will soon become very expensive. What has been written in the article is not opinion but how the government has worked. Florida Home Town Democracy is a step to have a say in our future.


[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

[ladykathleen]

Taltarzar,

I commend you for your knowledge and understanding. Most people had not a clue what the article said and oh so sad they could not care less. As I said I hope they have deep pockets deeper than mine.



[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

[ladykathleen]

Fact Historical Background – The POA was formed in 1975 as an independent homeowners’ organization representing the residents in the early days of The Villages. The POA at that time had almost all residents as members and a good working relationship with the developer, Mr. Harold Schwartz.

However, the POA and Mr. Schwartz had a falling out over the issue of promises made to residents as inducements to buy houses in the Villages. The developer reneged on the promises in the late 1980s and tried to charge residents for amenities that had originally been promised for free.

The POA organized a legal challenge to the developer’s decision. The result was a settlement that allowed those early residents to continue receiving the promised amenities.

A further result was that Mr. Schwartz and the developer’s organization cut all ties with the POA, advised new residents to avoid membership in the POA, and eventually formed the VHA in 1991 as an alternative to the POA. The developer also started a policy of refusing to meet with the POA on any subject.

The developer helped establish the VHA as an alternate to the POA on the explicit understanding that the VHA would not confront the developer with any complaints of Villagers. The developer did not want another pro-active, pro-resident owners’ association comparable to what the POA was at the time.

Essential Differences – To summarize the key differences: the POA is an independent organization that represents Residents’ Rights; the VHA is a developer-sponsored organization that avoids any issue that might be adverse to the interests of the developer, even if issues of Residents’ Rights are involved.

The VHA position goes against the very idea of what a homeowners’ organization should be – that the Rights of Residents should be the primary objective of a homeowners’ organization rather than the rights or best interests of the developer.

Some examples over the years of the VHA avoidance of Residents’ Rights issues and opposition to the POA and its positions are:

The VHA did not support the POA call for a moratorium on VCCDD purchases of various assets from the developer at inflated prices.

The VHA did not support the POA call for popular election of the District Administrator in an effort to make that individual more responsive to the needs and interests of residents.

The VHA did not support the POA call for resignation of VCCDD supervisors with potential conflict-of-interests ties to the developer.

The VHA did not support the POA call for election of central district supervisors by all residents in The Villages.

The VHA did not support the POA call for the right of residents to approve the purchase of new facilities and the related assumption of the debt repayment obligation by residents.

The VHA did not support the POA call for use of the comparable properties appraisal techniques, rather than the income-approach appraisal technique (which inflates prices), for purchases of facilities from the developer.

The VHA said nothing about the series of articles in the Orlando Sentinel in October, 2000, that documented abuses of the Chapter 190 law that created the Community Development Districts. Many of the examples were based on the situation in The Villages. The POA featured these articles in the Bulletin (see the August, 2003, issue of the Bulletin in the Bulletin archives section of the POA web site).

The VHA did not support the POA in its call for defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax proposal.

The VHA did not support the POA in its call for defeat of the One Sumter proposal that increases the political influence of the developer in Sumter County politics. The VHA actually supported the proposal.

Conclusion – It looks like the VHA ignores any Residents’ Rights issue that it thinks might offend the developer or go counter to the developer’s interests. And, Residents’ Rights are often ignored as a result of this VHA support for the developer.

The question for you, the Village resident reading this article, is whether you want to belong to an organization that represents your rights (POA) ... or whether you want to belong to an organization that ignores your rights and best interests in an effort to coddle up to the developer (VHA).

The POA general membership meeting is held on the third Wednesday of each month in the Ricardo Montalba


[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

[ejp52]

Wow somebody has an axe to grind,yikes. :dontknow: ::)

[chuckinca]

LK:

Using bold print is hard on the eyes and considered a no-no on the internet.

Your comments are very interesting but the dark print is distracting.

[handieman]

I'm happy and thats all that matters and seems like I have a lot of company ;D
Handie :joke:

[Russ_Boston]

LK - From an outsider's POV you make it awful difficult for us to even consider joining the POA when we get there.

Way too pushy for my tastes and lay off the bold print.

It is hard to take someone's opinion seriously when all they do is preach! Let's have a discussion without all the Nostradamus predictions (never mind I'm probably too slow to have a clue anyway).

[graciegirl]

When I read Leisureville and this, I can only think, sour grapes. These poor folks are too young to retire here . I am not happy with people who think that we are having the wool pulled over our eyes or with people that say DOOM. Of course there is a risk. Having a baby is a risk. Falling in love is a risk. Buying here is one too, but I think that there are lots of people who have had lots of experience and have lots of wisdom who have bought here. We aren't a bunch of dumb doras. I have lived on two golf courses that have sold and were built on. Surprise, Surprise, We didn't lose money on our house when it sold on those golf courses. These houses have a pretty fair price and about 20 grand attached to them for the bond. I expect to live another 20 years and I expect my heirs to get the asking price for what we paid. End of story. If they should depreciate 20 percent, still, end of story. What is the USE of all this drama?

[SteveZ]

I got a kick out of the article, as it tried to make serious work out of whimsy.

Since I first moved to CentFL in the early 80's I've watched TV grow. We used to laugh at it as "Old Peoples 'Ville" when I was much younger, and it's amazing how a little more grey hair can change one's attitude.

The fictional history is everywhere in FL. For a glimpse of REAL money trying to be made out of it, take a drive down to Disney"s "town" called Celebration. That place in itself is a Marketing 201 course!

Prof. Bartling's view on Sumter County as a victim amuses me greatly. Sure, the county is currently not making a great deal on sales tax revenue, but that should change drastically once Brownwood opens. The loss of gas tax revenue is the same story - development along Rt 466a will take market advantage in due time. In addition, the county does pretty well on real property tax, considering there is no discount for not having to provide school services (buildings, teachers, buses, etc.) because of the TV covenants. TV has its own fire department and Sumter County (my guess) is only tied to provide mutual aid support on TV property. So, other than an occasional sheriff's patrol (including speed traps on Morse and Buena Vista), county services versus revenue received sure looks like a winner to the county from my viewpoint.

Will the costs for TV eventually go up? It's a fair bet they will. However, the developer has a long-term vested interest to keep TV as pristine as possible: 1) the developer controls most of the resale market which will always be robust due to natural occurrences; 2) the developer rents the retail property in the same way as a mall owner does, and doesn't want that to go downhill; and 3) business is business, and few businessfolk intentionally screw up a good long-term thing.

Prof. Bartling slighted this part of CentFL as being less-than-desirable, and I take great exception to that. I don't give two hoots about Disney and the rest of themepark-world. The natural beauty of Crystal River, the Ocala forest, and the proximity to the Atlantic coast is worth more to me than the experience of standing in a one-hour line for a 90-second overpriced thrill ride.

If the good Professor is more inclined toward traffic jams along Lake Shore Drive, watching the Cubs lose, and having his arteries clogged with deep-dish pizza, (no offense intended to Chicagoans with the good sense to be in TV!) than watching manatee glide down the St. John's River, watching osprey hunt in the Crystal River basin, or to experience the Atlantic Ocean in all its majesty while strolling along New Smyrna Beach - his choice.

TV and CentFL - what a beautiful combination!

[chelsea24]

SteveZ, I take great exception to your slant on Chicago. I'm from Chicago and it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. To reduce it to your description is a shame on you.

I do agree with the beauty of central Florida. Before checking it out and moving here, you really don't hear much about it in the rest of the country. I think it's spectacular. The rolling green hills and sunsets are breathtaking.

I'm lucky to have had the best of both worlds. The best in the country. :#1:

[graciegirl]

SteveZ, I take great exception to you slant on Chicago. I'm from Chicago and it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. To reduce it to your description is a shame on you.

I do agree with the beauty of central Florida. Before checking it out and moving here, you really don't hear much about it in the rest of the country. I think it's spectacular. The rolling green hills and sunsets are breathtaking.

I'm lucky to have had the best of both worlds. The best in the country. :#1:


NOW Chels! I have to say that you are wrong for the first time. It is CINCINNATI and TV. ;D :bigthumbsup:

[l2ridehd]

This author is so in love with himself that he is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. He uses as many big words as possible to make the article as esoteric as possible. I bet he sleeps with Webster under his pillow every night.

[downeaster]

This author is so in love with himself that he is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. He uses as many big words as possible to make the article as esoteric as possible. I bet he sleeps with Webster under his pillow every night.


You are right on the money.
I have waited a long time to use the term "pedant". The time has arrived. The prof is a perfect example of a pedant.
BTW, am I being pedantic by using the term?

DC

[Skip]

RE: POA

I don't see any "axe to grind" here. If all of you passive people want to pay for the repair of all the sinkholes on the developer's property, watch your vinyl siding fall off, pay exorbitant prices for rec. centers and watch your taxes and amenity fees sky rocket, then be my guest. I'm glad Joe Gorman and others see these unfair schemes and practices and publicizes them in the interest of property owner's rights. If you had a big problem, you'd want someone to see your side too.

LadyKathleen has her facts straight. There needs to be two sides to the coin.

Skip

[ladykathleen]

Hi Skip and thank you.

Our country is in the condition it is because of jest on serious issues and enormous lack of interest. Better heads will prevail. It is reassuring to know that those who count don't sit around mocking what they have no comprehension of.

[chelsea24]

Hey, you know what they say "Love it or Leave it!" ;)

[downeaster]

I am not sure how the POA got in here but seeing as it did I will add my two cents worth.
We need the POA. Someone must hold others accountable. It doesn't take a PhD in world history to figure that out.

DC

[another Linda]

This author is so in love with himself that he is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. He uses as many big words as possible to make the article as esoteric as possible. I bet he sleeps with Webster under his pillow every night.


Not self-love but typical academia (IMHO). If you want tenure you gotta publish, and if you're gonna get published then you gotta conform to the "style" of your field. And the style in most fields requires at least 5 paragraphs out of every 7 require at minimum 2 re-readings. the only other option is to opt out and after working for a PhD, not too many do that.

[Russ_Boston]

I'm not saying that TV doesn't need the POA or the VHA.

I'm just saying to discuss it and stop the preaching.

There will be issues and we'll have to deal with them but no more POA vs. VHA please.

[SteveFromNY]

I am not sure how the POA got in here but seeing as it did I will add my two cents worth.
We need the POA. Someone must hold others accountable. It doesn't take a PhD in world history to figure that out.

DC



I know how it got in here. In oh-so-typical TOTV fashion, the thread was high-jacked.
It's really hard to find a single thread that stays on topic. Not many have any sense of "net-iquette" I think it's called. Wanna talk about the POA, start a new Topic!

[Muncle]

Hi Skip and thank you.

Our country is in the condition it is because of jest on serious issues and enormous lack of interest. Better heads will prevail. It is reassuring to know that those who count don't sit around mocking what they have no comprehension of.


I certainly do not mean the following as a personal attack and apologize in advance to anyone who takes it as such. However, does anyone else feel that the fair Lady Kate thinks herself just a wee bit superior to we mere mortals?

[Russ_Boston]

Muncle, surely you jest?

BTW - whose participle is dangling :joke:

[TallerTrees]

Ok, I just read the entire piece. There isn't anything there that is incorrect. I found it interesting actually. I don't see where this man is either "in love with himself" or using "big words" to impress. This is what the man does for a living and from all accounts is quite successful.

So.... while the piece was long and tedious at times, what's the big deal? Some of the posts here I felt were more defensive and for what reason I guess I don't understand.

Relax, you live here, you love it. Smile. Move on.

Thanks Tal for the original post.

[graciegirl]

Ok, I just read the entire piece. There isn't anything there that is incorrect. I found it interesting actually. I don't see where this man is either "in love with himself" or using "big words" to impress. This is what the man does for a living and from all accounts is quite successful.

So.... while the piece was long and tedious at times, what's the big deal? Some of the posts here I felt were more defensive and for what reason I guess I don't understand.

Relax, you live here, you love it. Smile. Move on.

Thanks Tal for the original post


I think the defense was triggered, not by the article, but by the repeated negativity from some posters. It gets so difficult to relax and enjoy when we hear we are needing to fight, fight, fight, the developer. My shingles are on my house and look like they will stay awhile and my local pool is filled with clean water. I am not a fighter. I am a villager.

[KCinBAMA]

The bit about paying $50million for an $8million golf course caught my attention. Can someone tell me where I can find out more information on this?

Thanks

[Taltarzac]

The bit about paying $50million for an $8million golf course caught my attention. Can someone tell me where I can find out more information on this?

Thanks


It looks like the Professor got this information from articles by Christopher Curry of the Ocala Star-Banner.

[livsea2]

Look at the top of the Forum's main page. Click "links" then links for the villages then "who owns the villages rec centers and executive golf courses". It seems the developer has circumvented the law that set up CDDs by establishing one that no one lives in so it gives him complete power over it now and forever. Paying what ever price he deems appropriate for facilities he sells to it. Only problem is the villages pay for it with no say. I don't think that was what the lawmakers had in mind when they passed the CDD development laws. But I could be wrong.
The bit about paying $50million for an $8million golf course caught my attention. Can someone tell me where I can find out more information on this?

Thanks

[SteveZ]

SteveZ, I take great exception to your slant on Chicago. I'm from Chicago and it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. To reduce it to your description is a shame on you.

I do agree with the beauty of central Florida. Before checking it out and moving here, you really don't hear much about it in the rest of the country. I think it's spectacular. The rolling green hills and sunsets are breathtaking.

I'm lucky to have had the best of both worlds. The best in the country. :#1:

Exception noted! Chicago IS a neat city and a fun place when the wind isn't whipping off the Lake in mid-winter. I'm probably too defensive about CentFL, as this is the "end of the rainbow" to me.

[ladykathleen]

Oh that is just the beginning, an 8 million dollar property being sold for 50 million. Reread the article that is being so talked about the one about how the government of the villages really works. Many of the properties that Villagers north of 466 have been forced to buy without a vote were bought at huge inflated prices. There is so much infor. on this I will have to go back and research however the POA has all the information on what has been going on. People south of 466 will be charged huge prices for their districts buying buildings rec. centers etc.

[graciegirl]

huuuuu boy! :(

[TallerTrees]

WOW -- leave it to politicians to ruin a wonderful thing. Do we have to secede !!! :(

[Russ_Boston]

Viva la revolution!

[Bucco]

With all due respect and with no desire to discuss any specific issues, everytime I read some of the comments that appear from time to time about the absolute dislike and distrust of the Villages, I always have this question in my mind.....

If it is and will be so bad here in The Villages why did you remain here even when you could have sold and made a large profit and moved to a neighboring community ?

This is not meant to be interpeted as "if you dont like it, leave"....it is real curiosity because if I felt the way you seem to (speaking to those who are posting here supposedly from the POA) I would have sold, made a few bucks and moved up the street !!

[`willy]

Bucco

My wife won't move and basically I like it here but that doesn't mean I should be taken to the cleaners at every turn.

Lady Kathleen I support you and agree with what you say.

Four year resident
Willy

[ladykathleen]

Thank you Willy.

[samhass]

Bucco, Many people bought here in late 2005 and early 2006. They might not be able to recoup their investment by selling now.

[graciegirl]

Bucco, Many people bought here in late 2005 and early 2006. They might not be able to recoup their investment by selling now.


It is amazing how good this forum is. Sam, that explains a lot. I realize now that what I am reading from a number of posters that I had previously thought to be very negative might very well be frustration. They really don't feel that they can change their minds at this point, even if they love the place. I feel good about our recent purchase because we have bought when the prices were lower. I don't know how many people have mortgages, fortunately we do not, but that too would add to the problem. I thank you for pointing this out.

I am completely baffled when I hear what I consider rants sometimes that are negative about the current members of the Morse family. Perhaps if the family would make themselves more available, as Mark Morse did recently, people would get to feel better about them.......or not. Who knows.

I am going to go to a POA meeting when I come down in November, if only to satisfy my curiosity. They may be the greatest group ever, but they annoy me when they post here. I feel that we have made a good choice by coming here and it appears that our investment is wise.

There are no guarantees in life. When things get worrisome, I remind myself to enjoy this moment, this day. We never know how many we have. Just my take on things.

[`willy]

Well said Graciegirl,

Just keep an open mind. Where theres smoke there could be a fire.
and I'm not in the POA.

PEACE
Willy

[ConeyIsBabe]

Hi LadyKathleen ....... I'm impressed with your knowledge and participation in TVs Association and if I lived there, I'd be interested in attending the meetings also. Right now, I'm only a wannabee stuck in the real estate dump!

I also applaud you for not being daunted by the nagative-post-police ;)

Although, I really don't understand everything you have written, it makes me want to know more. THANK YOU for trying to educate us.

[Russ_Boston]

[b]THANK YOU for trying to educate us.

CIB - Posters can say whatever they wish but please don't speak for me. I haven't gotten much of an education from LK as far as i can tell. I don't take kindly to preaching of any type. I'll make up my own mind. I may end up agreeing with LK but I may not.

[Taltarzac]

I found this Hugh Bartling article by accident when looking for stuff on One Sumter. I do not really have a dog in this fight though as I do not own property in TV.

As many know I live with my parents who do own property in TV. We moved from Palm Harbor in 2005 and I am extremely happy here in TV when compared with how things went for me in Palm Harbor. At least, the Chairman of the Board of the Chamber of Commerce has not threatened me with a lawsuit yet through his lawyer. It was really the Palm Harbor Library lawyer who did this on March 2, 2004 but since at that time the Palm Harbor Library Director Gene Coppola was the Chairman of the PH Chamber of Commerce there seemed to be quite a lot of conflict of interest and lack of any real accountability there in PH.

I do kind of get a little nervous when too much power is in the hands of people who also have a lot of control of the media.

TOTV is a great leveller though with respect to getting information out about issues of interest to Villagers.

Happy to see people taking an interest in that professor's article. I will bet that more people have probably read that article in the past few days than ever read it since it publication in November 2006?

[ConeyIsBabe]

Ooppsss..... Russ Boston: I'm so sorry if I gave the impression that I was speaking for everyone. It was certainly not my intention; semantics was never my best subject. Therefore I'll revise my statement.

Dear LadyKathleen... THANK YOU for attempting to educate me in regards to TV issues I know nothing about ;D

I've already learned to Beware of the topic-cops :cop: Beware of the negative-post police :cop: Beware of the forum-placement police :cop: and now the preaching police :cop:

OK! I obey !

THANKS again LadyKathleen; I (speaking for myself only) do appreciate your effort to inform the uninformed (like me) regarding important issues on TV (possibly my next home, maybe).

[Best Mom]

Tal,
Very interesting article. Thank goodness for you doing our research.

[tkret]

ConeyIsBabe,

Well, looks like you did a CYA correction. And who is that good-looking fellow on your lap?

[ConeyIsBabe]

tkret......... I'm going to boldly risk the Off-topic-Cop :cop: getting after me, but to answer your question...... that's "Jack" a 1-1/2 year-old Rat Terrier, my best little buddy ;D.

Sorry for the digression, my apologies to the OP ::)

[tkret]

tkret......... I'm going to boldly risk the Off-topic-Cop :cop: getting after me, but to answer your question...... that's "Jack" a 1-1/2 year-old Rat Terrier, my best little buddy ;D.

Sorry for the digression, my apologies to the OP ::)


My fault, CIBabe, I should have asked that in a PM. Jack is a handsome one, though. And now back to the discussion. Re: Interesting take on The Villages

[gfmucci]

We are paying and will pay oh so much in the future.* I hope everyone has lots of money.* Our "vacation" will soon become very expensive.* What has been written in the article is not opinion but how the government has worked.* Florida Home Town Democracy is a step to have a say in our future.

First, Hometown Democracy will result in bypassing our local elected officials and subjecting the voters to the paid propaganda of the biggest spending lobbyists. It will either stifle adaptation to changing land values and obsolete land uses or will cause the state legislature to repeal the planning act altogether.* It would be a boondoggle.* See what state professional planners say... http://www.floridaplanning.org/hometown/hometonwdemocracy.swf

The article itself sounds like a college paper by some form of Gore-inspired academic who likes to use lots of big words and find fault with things that are obviously working well.*

And as for higher costs in the future, CDD's are not new.* Several around the state have existed for longer than 30 years and function very professionally and efficiently.* I have NO reason to expect anything different from our CDDs.

[Fourpar]

gfmucci,

:agree: You're right on target! :agree:

[Bucco]

Bucco, Many people bought here in late 2005 and early 2006. They might not be able to recoup their investment by selling now.
__________________________________________________ __________________

Of course that is true...I realize that. I suspect, dont know and not saying it is a fact, that fact does not apply to most. I have been here for quite a few years now and this is not anything knew...the negativity. Every time I receive on my driveway an unwanted POA bulletin, I cringe not because they have no right to compain or investigate but because I have found beyond being negative, it APPEARS that their GOAL is to be negative. Having seen how some of their "surveys" are worded for example makes me wonder about the goal.

Hey, this place is not perfect....you can take a course on how it is governed..no secrets.

YES...we need an outlet for problems....and I think we basically have them. Now if your GOAL is to provide more noise about all problems then the POA is being succesful and they wonder why the developer wont commnicate with them...DUH !

I have no problem bringing up problems...there are and always will be those..I have had them.....followed up and got them resolved.

Said my piece I suppose....no sense in beating a dead horse, but some folks just live to complain and I suppose it keeps their blood flowing :) I just do not think that MOST, not ALL, of those you were referring to are stuck and will lose their investment and that is the ONLY reason they are staying. NOT ALL, but some will find fault no matter where they live and how well they live.

[Taltarzac]

I really do not buy this by the professor on One Sumter. Doesn't seem to reflect the shades of gray you find so much in real life outside of academia. One Sumter seems to be more about the votes going to the population centers in Sumter County rather than focused on geographical voting districts.

"In July 2003, residents backed by the developer established a political committee called One Sumter. The purpose of the committee was to promote a referendum that would change the way in which commissioners in Sumter County were chosen from a district-based system to one where commissioners were voted on at-large. Given the fact that The Villages is the largest community in the county, critics of the developer viewed the initiative as a shameless power grab by its CEO, Gary Morse. Funded primarily by contractors and other businesses with identifiable economic interests in The Villages and, often, headquarters outside the county, the developer-appointed administrative head of the CDD, Pete Wahl, sent residents a letter informing them of rising maintenance assessments explaining that they were forced to raise the costs due to decisions made by the Sumter County Board of Commissioners and conveniently enclosed an application for an absentee ballot to be used in the August, 2005 election (Curry 2004c)."

[Bucco]

TALTARZAC,

Could you supply the source of your quote in your last post ??

Thanks

[Taltarzac]

TALTARZAC,

Could you supply the source of your quote in your last post ??

Thanks


It is from the 14th paragraph on this page of that article. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section~content=a768593178~db=all~dontcount=true~f ulltext=713240929~start=768593209

[Bucco]

Thank you Taltarzac......I worked on that particular issue in petition gathering, etc. I always knew that the Developer supprted it but this article implies that he began the entire process. Will need to check more on that as this may be opinion.

Doesnt matter..to me it makes sense.....I think representation should be based on population and not empty space. In those days the developer was also sued by a local farmer who just did not want any development like this anywhere near here. He wanted the area to stay rural...and this went on for a few years !

Still think One Sumter is a good idea !

[graciegirl]

Bucco, Many people bought here in late 2005 and early 2006. They might not be able to recoup their investment by selling now.
__________________________________________________ __________________

Of course that is true...I realize that. I suspect, dont know and not saying it is a fact, that fact does not apply to most. I have been here for quite a few years now and this is not anything knew...the negativity. Every time I receive on my driveway an unwanted POA bulletin, I cringe not because they have no right to compain or investigate but because I have found beyond being negative, it APPEARS that their GOAL is to be negative. Having seen how some of their "surveys" are worded for example makes me wonder about the goal.

Hey, this place is not perfect....you can take a course on how it is governed..no secrets.

YES...we need an outlet for problems....and I think we basically have them. Now if your GOAL is to provide more noise about all problems then the POA is being succesful and they wonder why the developer wont commnicate with them...DUH !

I have no problem bringing up problems...there are and always will be those..I have had them.....followed up and got them resolved.

Said my piece I suppose....no sense in beating a dead horse, but some folks just live to complain and I suppose it keeps their blood flowing :) I just do not think that MOST, not ALL, of those you were referring to are stuck and will lose their investment and that is the ONLY reason they are staying. NOT ALL, but some will find fault no matter where they live and how well they live.


WELL SAID. :agree: :agree:My thoughts exactly. Would you be interested in running for president? :bigthumbsup:

[diskman]

This thread has kind of confused me!
If the POA is not recognized by the Morse family and the family rejects any and all info from them it seems to me that there is no clout or benefit to being a member. OR even for the existence of the POA so, how does it manage to continue to exist and for what purpose? :realmad:

[samhass]

Outsider, thanks for your take on things. I wish you could go into more detail on the gate issue.

[Muncle]

who's Outsider and what's his/her take on things?

[samhass]

OMgosh....Muncle, he had a long post but he and the post are gone!! Here is his/her profile and when they were online. I posted a reply immediately after his post. Maybe he felt that he said to much and his position would be recognized. In any event, it was a well written post. As he obviously had second thoughts about leaving it online, I shall not post the topics he discussed.


Summary - OutsiderWithInterest Picture/Text
Name: OutsiderWithInterest
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[ConeyIsBabe]

Now I'm REALLY confused ::) :dontknow:

Somehow, I get the feeling like there are secrets that some people know about but dare not talk about it, or at least print it here?

Yes, as a prospective TVer I'm curious....... call it nosy....... but (speaking for myself only, of course) I WANNA KNOW everything; the good, the bad, the ugly, all about the POA, and what about the gates?

[graciegirl]

This thread has kind of confused me!
If the POA is not recognized by the Morse family and the family rejects any and all info from them it seems to me that there is no clout or benefit to being a member. OR even for the existence of the POA so, how does it manage to continue to exist and for what purpose? :realmad:


I should NOT be answering this, because it was before we bought in TV and it is hearsay and I am not sure of my facts. I think that I heard that the POA sued the Morse family and won. The issue is not clear to me, but part of it was that one subcontractor had not nailed the shingles properly on a zillion or so houses. Now this is gossip. I think I heard that somehow, some folks in the POA benefited monetarily. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And I probably am. What I am sure about is that almost every post I read from people in the POA is negative. About something. Sometimes about silly things. (IMHO) Now, I am an incurable optimist and an activist too. When something goes wrong, I immediatly set out to have it resolved. And It usually is resolved, or if it can't be, I change it somehow, or accept it.

[Taltarzac]

I should NOT be answering this, because it was before we bought in TV and it is hearsay and I am not sure of my facts. I think that I heard that the POA sued the Morse family and won. The issue is not clear to me, but part of it was that one subcontractor had not nailed the shingles properly on a zillion or so houses. Now this is gossip. I think I heard that somehow, some folks in the POA benefited monetarily. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And I probably am. What I am sure about is that almost every post I read from people in the POA is negative. About something. Sometimes about silly things. (IMHO) Now, I am an incurable optimist and an activist too. When something goes wrong, I immediatly set out to have it resolved. And It usually is resolved, or if it can't be, I change it somehow, or accept it.


Think you are referring to this, graciegirl. http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/orlandosentinel/access/1442612221.html?dids=1442612221:1442612221&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+9%2C+2008&author=Stephen+Hudak&pub=Orlando+Sentinel&edition=&startpage=B.1&desc=Villages+settles+lawsuit%2C+will+fund+%2440M+ in+upgrades

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/orlandosentinel/access/1442611771.html?dids=1442611771:1442611771&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+9%2C+2008&author=Stephen+Hudak&pub=Orlando+Sentinel&edition=&startpage=J.1&desc=Villages+to+pay+%2440M+for+recreation+upgrade s%3B+It%27s+to+settle+a+lawsuit+by+residents+over+ use+of+amenity+fees.

[InterestedOutsider]

I work in the Villages but do not live there, so take it fwiw.

The article is intellectual mumbo-jumbo. Even a non-resident can see this. The author is obviously viewing things from a distance with a very dirty pair of sunglasses. All one has to do is drive through the place day after day to see through it. If the place was so negative, then I'm thinking the golf cart trails wouldn’t be so active, the squares would be depressing, and you would get smart-a** looks and attitudes from the residents. Well, I have heard of some sour apples living here, but I've not seen any of this yet. Most everybody I meet is active and happy.

To those who don't know (probably a low percentage--it amazes me that TV detractors think that only they know "the low and dirty truth" about TV), a good chunk of your future amenity fees will be influenced by these resident boards making recommendations to the district. Representation is absolutely vital (it is after all, a government body), however each resident shouldn't take anything for granted because some of these people on the boards, while wanting to do good, have some bizarre AND EXPENSIVE ideas.

I won't mention many specifics, to protect the innocent, but I will say that a couple of "inquiries" from the residents board have come across the radar that I monitor lately. One inquiry, pertaining to the area of recreation center usage, was based on a "feeling" of the board members regarding usage. This "feeling" (note: that’s all the board has as evidence---a feeling) costs money by itself because time must be consumed to provide an answer. If, after the feeling is researched, the resulting data doesn't meet the board’s expectations, I fully expect a second request to come along to change the ways things are managed. This change, when completed, will undoubtedly cost tens of thousands to the district. To what end?: to BE SURE that nobody, but Villagers, regardless of the number, are using the rec centers.

A bizarre one was that some group of residents (I don’t know which) got irritated over some ongoing issue with the gates. Apparently, to get the point across, consideration was given to immediate cancelation of a contract for a number of gates, and had someone not intervened, it would have resulted in significant costs AND MAJOR HEADACHES for the residents going through those gates---for you see, no consideration was given to how the gates interact with computers. In fact, if I recall, the solution was as simple as contacting the company, and in short order, the glitch was repaired.

Who pays these costs? Ultimately the residents do.

So, the point is, as long as the residents remain engaged in the process of governing, the and the radicals can be kept at bay (along with their negativity), and smart people can serve on these boards, then hopefully, when I reach retirement age, it will still be an awesome place to live.

I think most know this already, but sometimes it pays to throw an alternative message out there for those who may be on the fence about certain things in TV.

Regarding gossip---well, sometimes it is true, but most of the time, it is either 100% false or skewed so far past reality and in so many people’s heads as gospel that no amount of facts can convince folks otherwise. Case in point: “The Villages in Texas”. As we all know from that game in elementary school, a fact, whispered to two folks downstream turns into a “biggest fish story”. Whisper it to four and you have a lie, albeit unintentional.

Fwiw, I look at it like this. If America is so bad, then why do people from all over the world risk their lives to come here? On a smaller scale then, if TV is so bad, then why are people from all over the US tossing their lives overboard to come here? The answer is the same for both questions: Opportunity! For the former it’s an opportunity to live free and earn a good living for a hard day’s work. For the latter, it’s the opportunity to live out one’s latter years doing what they love, day after precious day, and doing it with other like-minded people.

[barb1191]

Excellent post InterestedOutsider.

Well stated,and merely your "take" on the subject. Liked your outlook. Good to hear that your future plans are to become a TV-er.

Good luck to you.....barb

[samhass]

Outsider, you are back! Thanks for reposting.

[villages07]

Outsider,

Thanks for your post...it brings an interesting perspective to things. I hope that you will continue to read/monitor this board and chime in when you deem it appropriate. I can't tell what type of employment position you have, but, I would encourage you and other Villages employees to keep an ear on this board. As TOTV goes, so goes The Villages as far as what people are thinking, fearing, appreciating, etc.

As to the future, there are so many bright and talented people living in the Villages that we should expect our local governance to be reasonable, fair, and forward thinking. However, my personal fear is that more contrarians, negativists, or penny pinchers will get involved and we'll be hard-pressed to maintain our current quality of life. To quote BTK, it's up to the silent majority to make sure this doesn't happen and to remain One Villages and not a collection of "me first" individual neighborhoods.

Again, welcome Outsider!!!

[Taltarzac]

Outsider,

Thanks for your post...it brings an interesting perspective to things. I hope that you will continue to read/monitor this board and chime in when you deem it appropriate. I can't tell what type of employment position you have, but, I would encourage you and other Villages employees to keep an ear on this board. As TOTV goes, so goes The Villages as far as what people are thinking, fearing, appreciating, etc.

As to the future, there are so many bright and talented people living in the Villages that we should expect our local governance to be reasonable, fair, and forward thinking. However, my personal fear is that more contrarians, negativists, or penny pinchers will get involved and we'll be hard-pressed to maintain our current quality of life. To quote BTK, it's up to the silent majority to make sure this doesn't happen and to remain One Villages and not a collection of "me first" individual neighborhoods.

Again, welcome Outsider!!!


Agree, that more input from Villages employees is needed on TOTV. Glad to see you posting Outsider. :welcome:

[KayakerNC]

Regarding gossip---well, sometimes it is true, but most of the time, it is either 100% false or skewed so far past reality and in so many people’s heads as gospel that no amount of facts can convince folks otherwise. Case in point: “The Villages in Texas”. As we all know from that game in elementary school, a fact, whispered to two folks downstream turns into a “biggest fish story”. Whisper it to four and you have a lie, albeit unintentional.

Great post InterestedOutsider.
I don't understand the "Villages in Texas" reference, and a quick search :read: revealed nothing to enlighten me. Please elaborate, since I am easily confused. ???

[samhass]

Kayaker- there was a rumor that TV was opening another "Villages" in Texas. Someone else told me the same thing about NC. Outsiders comment about the "biggest fish story" is so true.

[KayakerNC]

Kayaker- there was a rumor that TV was opening another "Villages" in Texas. Someone else told me the same thing about NC. Outsiders comment about the "biggest fish story" is so true.

Thank you, samhass. :bigthumbsup:

[graciegirl]

VERY WELL SAID Outsider and Village07.

Much food for thought and some optimism and hope expressed for this wonderful place to continue after the magnicent, friendly, wonderful group who live here now move to the village of "Heavenly".

[Peachie]

Very refreshing viewpoint, Outsider, and I think the key word here is "radical". Pouring gasoline on a fire seldom extinquishes it and so it will be in dealing with Village issues. Even though The Villages has been painted with a very broad brush by some authors and columnists as a community of people in la la land, I believe it is quite the opposite. Most Villagers are extremely cognizant of the issues involving this community, the world and are involved. Healthy rapport with powers that be and a finger on the pulse of what's happening are crucial for any successful community. Much more is achieved with direct problem solving than constant, biased, random attacks. The developers are attacked for having the foresight to build such an amazing project for which most of us are extremely grateful and in the process they are rewarded handsomely. Perhaps the Morse family is not out to drain every last nickel from us and truly do want their name on one of the most successful ventures in America, could that be possible? One post referred to Ocala as a "real city", The Villages are "real" also and growing. The more it grows, the more vibrant The Villages becomes. We have seen this happen in the four years since we discovered our retirement home. Time will tell but enjoy this moment as you stay involved. Having high expectations will be the key to our success....

[graciegirl]

Very refreshing viewpoint, Outsider, and I think the key word here is "radical". Pouring gasoline on a fire seldom extinquishes it and so it will be in dealing with Village issues. Even though The Villages has been painted with a very broad brush by some authors and columnists as a community of people in la la land, I believe it is quite the opposite. Most Villagers are extremely cognizant of the issues involving this community, the world and are involved. Healthy rapport with powers that be and a finger on the pulse of what's happening are crucial for any successful community. Much more is achieved with direct problem solving than constant, biased, random attacks. The developers are attacked for having the foresight to build such an amazing project for which most of us are extremely grateful and in the process they are rewarded handsomely. Perhaps the Morse family is not out to drain every last nickel from us and truly do want their name on one of the most successful ventures in America, could that be possible? One post referred to Ocala as a "real city", The Villages are "real" also and growing. The more it grows, the more vibrant The Villages becomes. We have seen this happen in the four years since we discovered our retirement home. Time will tell but enjoy this moment as you stay involved. Having high expectations will be the key to our success....


Wow Peachie. Still another great post.

[ebliss1]

One of the posts above referred to TV as a new type of community. As such, it will have growing pains and changes. Some good, some bad. The thing I get from reading the original post, the article it grew from and LadyKathleen's response all seem to miss one big issue:

People are moving to TV in droves because that is the type of life they want. They are leaving their old lives behind, intentionally. Their old lilves where layer upon layer of government control and oversight and whatnot were generating an environment they were dissatisfied with in some way. I'm not saying that local government issues are what drives people to TV, but for better or worse, the developer is building a different type of community here, and people are not only interested, they are responding in an overwhelmingly positive way, both by relocating to TV, and by willing spending their money in TV.

A lot of the issue I hear here are similar to the complaints people have leveled at Disney for years, but in spite of them all, people still flock to Disney and spend their money there.

Bottom line, for me at least, is if I am spending my time and money, so long as I feel like I am getting my money's worth, its cool. No environment is perfect, and no government is perfect, but if, on balance, things are more heavily weighted on the positive side of things, smile and enjoy.

One thing that did bother me a bit was in LadyKathleen's original post where she asserts that the VHA is working against the residents' best interests by stating each point as "The VHA did not support the POA..." This strikes me as a sort of "if you're not with us you're against us" attitude that can be off-putting to readers. A more effective way to raise the points would have been to show how the POA's position was more beneficial and how the VHA's lack of support of that position was detrimental.

[dianerk]

I must agree with ebliss1. We were in the original group of owners in the Disney community of Celebration (1996). Another "new" concept in living. Droves of people were always driving into town to see if it was indeed "stepford". Like "Leisureville" several books were written about our community. Some folks even believed we were told how to dress, what to say, etc. Very sad indeed. Like The Villages, it was a great place to live and the fact that it was CDD controlled -- it ALWAYS was kept beautifully. Did everyone like it? No, and they moved away (always an option if you are so very unhappy). Personally, I am glad to be in TV.

[samhass]

Jbsmom, We're glad you are here also. The Villages Rock!!!
BTW,Is there a local cat salon where a cat can be coiffed??? Your kitty needs a do!

[barb1191]

Jbsmom, We're glad you are here also. The Villages Rock!!!
BTW,Is there a local cat salon where a cat can be coiffed??? Your kitty needs a do!


Sam....What a hoot you are....."coiffed kitty" 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 040 wav

[samhass]

Barb, just look at the kitty in JB's avatar and tell me that cat doesn't need coiffing! The cat also looks very disgruntled....like it needs an attitude adjustment...or kitty Prozac.

[barb1191]

Barb, just look at the kitty in JB's avatar and tell me that cat doesn't need coiffing! The cat also looks very disgruntled....like it needs an attitude adjustment...or kitty Prozac.


Sam... Kitty must be of the male species....Hadn't you noticed all the men that have their hair all ruffed up and look like kitty?It's the latest style. :yikes:

Kitty is so ugly, it's cute.

[samhass]

Kitty is cute. I'm just teasing Jbsmom. She's cute, too.

[Taltarzac]

Kitty is cute. I'm just teasing Jbsmom. She's cute, too.


That's just a famous picture of a "bad hair day" kitty from the UK. http://www.funny.co.uk/stuff/art_175-1659-Bad-Hair-Day-Cat.html

Here's one that I have yet to see at the Villages' dog parks. http://www.funny.co.uk/stuff/art_175-4273-Can-you-see-Jesus.html :joke:

This topic has almost 3000 views? Cannot say that people on TOTV are not interested in how others may view the Villages and what can be done to improve that image??

[renielarson]

Outsider

Thank you for your perspective and wise words. I hope you continue to contribute your thoughts to this forum. :bigthumbsup:

[ladykathleen]

Hello Coney Island Babe,

I did very much appreciate your positive post about wanting to know more about the "workings" of the way "things work" here in The Villages. I did not immediately express my appreciation because I began to read the archives of the POA which date only from 2001 even though this organization existed from 1975. I just kept reading and cross referencing and just did not get back to you plus I was "playing" with my plants.

A little about me: I am not political. It is a lot of time, commitment and effort. During the 60s I was raising a family, going to school and had a job. It wasn't until almost three years ago when my mother was here and looking for an activity to do with her that she, I and my husband attended our district meeting. Now, I would not have done this on my own , however my mother used to work for a city hall and is as detailed, moral, honest and thorough a human being on earth as there can be. I knew she would be interested and I knew I would be oh so bored.

Well we sat there for 3 1/2 hours in "rap" attention. Do attend your district meetings. I in subsequent meeting stood up and "spoke my piece" and in one was assured by Morse that we would be kept informed. I belong to both organizations POA & VHA though have not attended either meeting in some time, just being whatever.

You must read and research to somewhat understand what is needed to secure our "promised lifestyle" that we bought into. We are on a fixed income and pay attention to where our money is going. Many I would now assume have far more income then we and probably prefer to just go with the flow.

Please, just please, do not look at the Morse family as your benefactors. They have only one purpose and that is to make money, thats fine however they did it at our ignorance. They will not take care of you. They will maintain only as long as it takes to sell more houses. For those who have lived here many years it was much different.

Here are three links. There are so many more. Read the letter Harold Schwartz wrote after he lost the lawsuit brought against him by the Villagers.

http://search.mywebsearch.com/mywebsearch/AJmain.jhtml?searchfor=harold+schwartz+the+village s&PG=SEASUSH&SEC=ABMANY&st=kwd&ptnrS=ZS

http://www.ccfj.net/POASept02.html

http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/POASept02.html

http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/POAOct02.html

I was not knowledgeable on how to have you just click and lawah, there you would have it, so copy and paste into the search area of your computer. I am not oppositional , however cannot tolerate those who cannot take the time to be informed. Hey to "you all" who mock the "professor", he is right on.

No, I am absolutely not put off by negative comments. It could be why "we the people" are doing so little now to control our economy. We do have the power.

Kathleen

[ConeyIsBabe]

THANK YOU ladykathleen !

At this time, I'm only a wannabee however I believe in being informed when it comes to issues that might impact my largest investment. I'll try to understand those writings. Thanks again ;D

[Peachie]

CIB, it's probably a good idea too, to tap on the poster's name and review their last posts and that will also give you an idea of where they are coming from in assessing living in The Villages. As always, the cup is half full or half empty but it is important to stay involved when you arrive!

[ConeyIsBabe]

THANK YOU Peachie..... for the very good advice. I fully understand that in a community of 70k people, there will be just about everything representing human nature.

I try not to define a person only by their writings on a forum..... but I will reserve my final evaluation until after long-term, in-person meetings. And, I try to be as informed as I can within my ability to understand the issue. I'm kinda lame regarding financial and political issues, but I believe in keeping abreast of local community happenings.

[Peachie]

It sounds like you're on top of things, CIB, and I hope you get a chance to visit The Villages soon.. :)

[Taltarzac]

The Villages, Florida.

I did not see any other academic articles on Informaworld on the Villages when I did a search on this web-site's internal search engine except for this one by Hugh Bartling. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section~content=a768593178~db=all~start=768593205~ fulltext=713240929~dontcount=true

[Best Mom]

Thank you ladykathleen! :agree:
Very well put. Your websites are very good. IMOP you are second to Taltarac (Tal you are still the best!) in presenting research. :read:

I have so much respect for people who present facts. :bigthumbsup:

CIB-you are one smart lady.
This is a big place and I picked a location where there are many pools and close to shopping. There is no traffic on our loop. (street) We also are a very friendly village and we get together twice a month. Our street has monthly parties.
There are neighborhoods who have no pools, no parties, unfriendly reputation and a ton of traffic. That is why it is so good to rent and go to the different villages(talk to people) and get a feel for what meets your needs. Plus don't trust everything your real estate agent tells you. Research is the key.

[diskman]

Best Mom what village and street do u live in?
wanna be larry

[Peachie]

Best Mom, in your hearty backslap for Kathleen and how you applaud people who provide the facts, what was your take on this statement from her:

"Please, just please, do not look at the Morse family as your benefactors. They have only one purpose and that is to make money, thats fine however they did it at our ignorance. They will not take care of you. They will maintain only as long as it takes to sell more houses. For those who have lived here many years it was much different"

Another statement: "The developer has already sold our shopping centers. Remember he has only one and only one mind set and it has absolutley nothing to do with our welfare. He could stay here forever and still sell the golf courses for condos. After he finishes with this area (building) he does not have to pretend to provide a pleasant place for us to live. His welfare and money will no longer depend on selling "a bill of goods)."

No one told Mr. Peachie and me when we bought our villa we that bought a shopping center too, hmmm.

It's beyond me why anyone would invest in a home located in The Villages if the Morse family operates as portrayed by Kathleen. It's beyond me why anyone stays if her information is fact...

[ConeyIsBabe]

Peachie......... I'm the wannabee who personally knows no one from The Villages Florida, nor have I verified any information expressed on TOTV. I'm not on anyone's side, on any issue regarding TV. All I know is what I read here.

But, I am very disturbed about the Talk Host's experience with the choo-cho train noise and how it has impacted his lifestyle, resulting from disclosure omission.

Peachie..... I respect your opinion and would like to know your thoughts regarding this issue.

[chelsea24]

Great question Peachie! Now let's see if we get an answer.

Personally, I love it here and can't say enough about it. In a sense, the Schwartz-Morris family is a benefactor, in that they had a vision and created this beautiful environment for us to live in. I don't feel put upon or cheated. I don't begrude them their profits as some do. I simply feel blessed. :bigthumbsup:

[Peachie]

No one feels worse than we do regarding TH's experience, it's dreadful and I don't know how long ago they purchased their property but, hopefully, the real estate market in The Villages will appreciate and TH will be able to at least recoup the money invested and sell his home at that point. That being said, I think excitement got in the way of thoroughly investigating the area prior to purchase. And that's not a judgment against TH, we have all had some occasion where action preceded all the homework... We have owned 6 homes and lived in 9 different residences and made it a point to thoroughly scour the area for any issues that we couldn't live with and sometimes the issue would build next to us after we lived in a home for awhile.

We were never told there were good/bad neighborhoods by anyone in our four visits to The Villages prior to purchasing and we talked with many, many visitors. The people did say that it was important to check out the different areas, that there are different taxing districts, sewer locales, train locale and many other details. (We didn't know about TOTV at that time).

You need to come to The Villages first of all and see if it lives up to your vision. If The Villages lives up to your expectations, then you can investigate the different areas and find the comfort zone for your level of involvement and activities. Unfriendly to some people is privacy to other people. Not everyone wants a block party, neighbors on the patio or a pool within ten steps or even ten blocks. We all want different things in life, that doesn't make us bad, we simply need to choose what works for us. (Personally, we like the block party/neighbor thing very much and lots of golf).

Bottom line, come and visit wav ! Do investigate the local government and yes, the POA.
This is a decision only you can make and if it takes 2 or 3 visits, so what? There are worse places, IMHO, to spend your time. Oh, and continue to tune into the TOTV. Good luck CIB and keep your home listed, you never know!!!

[graciegirl]

I can't comment on the train but having built and bought several new homes in our lives we have had the choice to buy next to empty space or what we knew and could see. I know that Ohio has disclosure LAWS and you can be sued if you do not disclose things like water in your basement. I don't think you have to tell if your neigbors are raucous and loud and raise snakes in their basement.

My take on the train is that it is a shame that Jan bought in such a noisy area. I don't know what Florida's disclosure laws are, but it would seem that I, me, GracieGirl couldn't sell real estate if I knew that a train was running and beeping. I would have to tell it.
It just sounds unethical not to.

I don't really think that someone as smart as you seem to b would have anyone pull the wool over YOUR eyes. Talk Talk Talk to everyone when you get here. Tell the rep if she is keeping something from you, you will send your Cousin Vinnie to call on her.

I don't think there is a lot to worry about. Just don't move near Jan. My street has some nice houses, I think. There are no for sale signs. AND no sold signs so it is hard to know.

I have friends who have lived here for eleven years and they are still crazy about it.

[samhass]

Well said, Chels. I love it here!!





Great question Peachie! Now let's see if we get an answer.

Personally, I love it here and can't say enough about it. In a sense, the Schwartz-Morris family is a benefactor, in that they had a vision and created this beautiful environment for us to live in. I don't feel put upon or cheated. I don't begrude them their profits as some do. I simply feel blessed. :bigthumbsup:

[renielarson]

How is Mr. Morse different than other developers anywhere else in this vast country of ours? Once a residential section is developed, decisions are given to the homeowners and the developer bows out. It happened to our rural subdivision where I live now and the decision making relies on the homeowners association.

This isn't brain science and nothing new.

[Peachie]

Exactly, Bright. :agree:

[samhass]

Peachie said "No one told Mr. Peachie and me when we bought our villa we bought a shopping center too, hmmm."

Hey Peachie, which one did you buy??? Any good sales going on?? 1rnfl

[Peachie]

We sold the office/apartment rental building we owned last year, lol, and we are happy. We would just like to shop in the stores if we become threadbare, no ownership please! :)

[ladykathleen]

RE: Peachie's reply to Best Mom,

Peachie, do not make sport of Best Mom's reply to me? shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Mom you are numbered among those who care to make sure we maintain our promised lifestlye. Peachie, why would I and others buy here in the Villages? , the usual "pat" answer; stars in my eyes, too busy to read the documents , knew nothing about CDDs, considered this the greatest place to live.

Would I have bought? Yes probably, because what was promised then would be wonderful today. Had I been more knowledable I would have become involved immediately in working toward making changes in laws. As I said earlier I did speak directly to Morse in a meeting. You and others because of "US" who work toward making sure we are informed and work for equitable Florida laws will reap the benefits of our work and time.

Peachie, have you attended your and others districts meetings????? Do you understand the Florida law written for developers which I heard was put into law for Disney. Do you understand what Hometown Democracy is for?????????

[`willy]

The amenity decisions are currently made by commercial-based landowners in The Villages, and the developer continues to sell portions of the commercial district to foreign stakeholders. In the fall of 2006, Rolling Acres Plaza sold for $40 million to TMW Weltfonds Rolling Acres Plaza LP, an affiliate of Atlanta's Prudential Real Estate Investors based in Germany. The newly built plaza had been open for less than a year before the sale

http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070125/REPORTER/201250332/1131/REPORTER

I think this is what was being referred to.


Willy

[graciegirl]

RE: Peachie's reply to Best Mom,

Peachie, do not make sport of Best Mom's reply to me? shame on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Mom you are numbered among those who care to make sure we maintain our promised lifestlye. Peachie, why would I and others buy here in the Villages? , the usual "pat" answer; stars in my eyes, too busy to read the documents , knew nothing about CDDs, considered this the greatest place to live.

Would I have bought? Yes probably, because what was promised then would be wonderful today. Had I been more knowledable I would have become involved immediately in working toward making changes in laws. As I said earlier I did speak directly to Morse in a meeting. You and others because of "US" who work toward making sure we are informed and work for equitable Florida laws will reap the benefits of our work and time.

Peachie, have you attended your and others districts meetings????? Do you understand the Florida law written for developers which I heard was put into law for Disney. Do you understand what Hometown Democracy is for?????????


OH Peachie. ::) :dontknow:

[Peachie]

Oh, it's ok, Graciegirl!! Lol. :bigthumbsup: I think if anyone reads my posts, they know I adhere to the belief we must be involved and to work positively toward change.

And now Kathleen, I'm ashamed of nothing. This is about issues, not egos, please remember that. We did not ever own any of the shopping centers. Period. You say you are well read and informed so surely you know that to be a fact. You must also be very aware of the scope of foreign investments in the United States and that businesses and properties are sold by development people every day. The problem here seems to lie within the laws of the CCD's and that may be the area were the changes should be positioned. And if the law is effected that those changes are implemented, we will pay for all the excellent amenities, golf courses, entertainment and so on, in other ways. Quite simply, there is no such thing as a free ride. No developer, property management company or whomever will absorb the huge costs associated with these features. Whether the costs are hidden in other areas or our bonds, we will be paying the price for fine living. Also, foreign companies are not going to buy shopping centers to drive us all out of the area. What would be the point?

Best Mom, do not send private messages to me regarding your impressions of the mental health or personalities of other posters. I am only interested in The Villages in this forum and have NO interest in that type of dialogue.

In the end, I will enjoy my life as I go, vote and support and necessary changes that will continue to improve our community.

[graciegirl]

Peachie.

Logical thought. Articulated perfectly. Succinct. Appropriate. Well said.

[ladykathleen]

Peachie,

I did not say we owned the shopping centers. And no there is no "free "ride , did I imply thats what I thought when I moved here? And now you are writing on a more positive note and more involved in knowing just what does happen with the CDDs and have noted that some changes could be made.
Because there is "no free ride", I am one who will be very sensitive to changes made to our as you say "fine living" here. I do not know hoiw long you have lived here, but our "fine living" was actually nicer years ago. You still have your "fine living" because we the residents have taken action to protect our rights and now monitor our monies.

[Taltarzac]

Oh, it's ok, Graciegirl!! Lol. :bigthumbsup: I think if anyone reads my posts, they know I adhere to the belief we must be involved and to work positively toward change.

And now Kathleen, I'm ashamed of nothing. This is about issues, not egos, please remember that. We did not ever own any of the shopping centers. Period. You say you are well read and informed so surely you know that to be a fact. You must also be very aware of the scope of foreign investments in the United States and that businesses and properties are sold by development people every day. The problem here seems to lie within the laws of the CCD's and that may be the area were the changes should be positioned. And if the law is effected that those changes are implemented, we will pay for all the excellent amenities, golf courses, entertainment and so on, in other ways. Quite simply, there is no such thing as a free ride. No developer, property management company or whomever will absorb the huge costs associated with these features. Whether the costs are hidden in other areas or our bonds, we will be paying the price for fine living. Also, foreign companies are not going to buy shopping centers to drive us all out of the area. What would be the point?

Best Mom, do not send private messages to me regarding your impressions of the mental health or personalities of other posters. I am only interested in The Villages in this forum and have NO interest in that type of dialogue.

In the end, I will enjoy my life as I go, vote and support and necessary changes that will continue to improve our community.


If this impressions on the mental health of posters reflects back on me the originator of this string please note that I am listed in several Marquis Who Who's in the World editions as well as three or four Marquis Who Who in America from the period 1992 through 2002. Since 1991, some of the powers that be in legal publishing and law librarianship have used labels of mentally ill as a weapon of distraction -- like some lawyers do to get their criminal defendants off-- while I have been fighting to get practical materials into law libraries and others for survivors of crimes. You can check for yourself whether this material is in libraries using the Internet. This is extremely easy. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php/topic,1199.msg10959.html#msg10959

Here is one such useful link for survivors of crimes here in Lake County, FL. http://www.lakeline.lib.fl.us/internet_directory/category.aspx?IDDirectoryCategory=24 I have been trying to get a link like this at the Villages Public Library as well as at Marion County Public Library for a few years. There was an article by Mr. Gary Corsair about my efforts here in TV and its libraries (Sumter, Marion, and Lake) in The Villages Daily Sun on Memorial Day of 2007. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php/topic,1199.msg4790.html#msg4790

Again you can check for yourself about these resources being there. I got a link at the U of MN Law Library within the last year or so which would be of use for survivors of crimes. Not sure it is even still there now that I look. Just checked. It is still there http://local.law.umn.edu/library/subjectindex-web.html#Crim https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php/topic,1199.msg34658.html#msg34658

Since 1992, I have tried to do this work in every US state as well as many foreign countries with some success. Not as much as I would have liked for all the time and effort, money, and stomach acid I have put into this.

[ladykathleen]

Willy,

Thank you for your post. Yes that was what I was referring too.

[Peachie]

Oh, good grief, Tal, :redface: I'm sorry if you had any impressions my post made any inference to you. I received a personal message in the form of an email from Best Mom and I didn't want to begin a personal correspondence with her regarding mental health/personality issues that she made to me. You weren't even on the radar! Continue to post away and I'm sure that Best Mom now knows I am interested in only discussing The Beautiful Villages and, that it is on a public forum.

Kathleen, life is change. Nothing remains the same and if you've enjoyed a even better life than now being offered in The Villages, I am happy for you. But for all those years you have been here, you must have realized that someone has to pay the piper eventually and that all those freebies in the beginning were developer enticements. But what remains today is a beautiful development and I haven't changed my tune, as you indicated. I've stated all along that we need to be cognizant, read my past posts. You did state, in your earlier post, "our shopping centers" and I don't believe anyone should have the impression they are buying anymore than their home and the property on which it sits. I'm not a member of the Morse family, I am not on their payroll and no personal affiliation with any of them but I find your constant, broad personal attacks on this developer useless and detracting from The Villages itself. Go specifically to the issue at hand, offer a solution or a specific channel of remedy and you'll have my full attention every time. Bear in mind, though, that individuals are not all of the same mind on every issue. I would hope that when you arise tomorrow and even as today progresses, you look around and thoroughly enjoy the life you are living there, we will not travel this way again. (I'm going to go have some fun myself before more trouble is concocted.)

[Taltarzac]

Oh, good grief, Tal, :redface: I'm sorry if you had any impressions my post made any inference to you. I received a personal message in the form of an email from Best Mom and I didn't want to begin a personal correspondence with her regarding mental health/personality issues that she made to me. You weren't even on the radar! Continue to post away and I'm sure that Best Mom now knows I am interested in only discussing The Beautiful Villages and, that it is on a public forum.

Kathleen, life is change. Nothing remains the same and if you've enjoyed a even better life than now being offered in The Villages, I am happy for you. But for all those years you have been here, you must have realized that someone has to pay the piper eventually and that all those freebies in the beginning were developer enticements. But what remains today is a beautiful development and I haven't changed my tune, as you indicated. I've stated all along that we need to be cognizant, read my past posts. You did state, in your earlier post, "our shopping centers" and I don't believe anyone should have the impression they are buying anymore than their home and the property on which it sits. I'm not a member of the Morse family, I am not on their payroll and no personal affiliation with any of them but I find your constant, broad personal attacks on this developer useless and detracting from The Villages itself. Go specifically to the issue at hand, offer a solution or a specific channel of remedy and you'll have my full attention every time. Bear in mind, though, that individuals are not all of the same mind on every issue. I would hope that when you arise tomorrow and even as today progresses, you look around and thoroughly enjoy the life you are living there, we will not travel this way again. (I'm going to go have some fun myself before more trouble is concocted.)




The Villages, Florida.


Sorry, Peachie. I can be a little oversensitive when I hear "mentally ill" thrown into the mix. :(

Really like it here in the Villages, Florida and the people on TOTV are also for the most part nice and open-minded.

[islandgal]

Peachie -

I see you joined TOTV August 7. Are you a year round resident and, if so, how long have you lived here?

Thanks.

[graciegirl]

Sorry, I can be a little oversensitive when I hear "mentally ill" thrown into the mix. :(


Tal.

I am going to highjack this thread for a minute. I did not for one second associate the "mentally ill" bit with you. You are so helpful, intelligent, and "johnny on the spot" with information on any and every subject. You have personally helped me with information on this forum time and time again. I didn't know you were in Who's Who, but now I will be reticent to call you in for information..JUST KIDDING. Congratulations. I am not surprised.

I thank you for your openness about the difficulties that you have personally experienced. I believe that when we share challenges with others, it helps people to know that not one of us hasn't been through a personal hell at one time or another and somehow survived.

Peachie.

You prove that being extremely smart does not keep a person from being extremely fair.
I personally can't wait to meet you in person. You impress the :edit: out of me. What a gal; funny, quick, logical, and so nice!

[KayakerNC]

**Snip**someone has to pay the piper eventually and that all those freebies in the beginning were developer enticements. But what remains today is a beautiful development **Snip**

Well said! :bigthumbsup: :agree:

[Taltarzac]

Tal.

I am going to highjack this thread for a minute. I did not for one second associate the "mentally ill" bit with you. You are so helpful, intelligent, and "johnny on the spot" with information on any and every subject. You have personally helped me with information on this forum time and time again. I didn't know you were in Who's Who, but now I will be reticent to call you in for information..JUST KIDDING. Congratulations. I am not surprised.

I thank you for your openness about the difficulties that you have personally experienced. I believe that when we share challenges with others, it helps people to know that not one of us hasn't been through a personal hell at one time or another and somehow survived.

Peachie.

You prove that being extremely smart does not keep a person from being extremely fair.
I personally can't wait to meet you in person. You impress the :edit: out of me. What a gal; funny, quick, logical, and so nice!


The Villages, Florida.

Thanks, Graciegirl. My experiences on Findlaw's message boards with my survivors' right to practical information campaign from 2002 through 2007 or so kind of color my use of the Internet.

Find TOTV people so much nicer than those on Findlaw. Of course, Findlaw was full of lawyers, law students, felons, the accused, genuinely mentally ill, and people looking for stories and/or titillation.

Back to the article about the Villages, I have not met that many plastic people here in TV or on TOTV as you would expect from reading either this professor's article or Andrew Blechman's Leisureville.

[chelsea24]

Ladykathleen, I'm just curious. How or in what way was The Villages better or nicer before than it is now? I would really like to know, I'm not being sarcastic. :dontknow:


Peachie, I truly enjoy your posts and I agree with Gracie, you are quick, funny, logical, nice, and I will add very savvy to have seen through Best Mom's notorious poison pen letters. Please keep posting, I think you're right on the money. Can't wait to meet you. ;)

[samhass]

Tal, This is Peachie's exact quote "Best Mom, do not send private messages to me regarding your impressions of the mental health or personalities of other posters. I am only interested in The Villages in this forum and have NO interest in that type of dialogue."
At no point did Peachie mention the phrase "mentally ill". Even if she had, there is no way anyone would have misconstrued that to think she was referring to you. We all think you are an attribute to this board. You are highly regarded here, dear Tal. Further, Peachie is very erudite. Her writing is forthright. I feel no hidden agendas with her posts. She says what she means and means what she says. I, too, hope to meet her. Peachie, I think you are the bomb!

[Rokinronda]

Peachie, I also enjoy your posts and agree with your logic. Thanks for great posts and questions. I am also curious what has happened in The Villages that has begrudged Lady. I have only been here a short 4 years and am personnally impressed with the progress, beauty, amenities, and the 99% happy folks. My neighbor has been here for 15 years and she LOVES THE VILLAGES, FLORIDA and everything that goes with it. I agree with her 100%!!

[samhass]

Best Mom said "There are neighborhoods who have no pools, no parties, unfriendly reputation and a ton of traffic. That is why it is so good to rent and go to the different villages(talk to people) and get a feel for what meets your needs. Plus don't trust everything your real estate agent tells you. "

Which neighborhoods are those? I am curious and I'm sure prospective buyers are as well.

[Taltarzac]

Tal, This is Peachie's exact quote "Best Mom, do not send private messages to me regarding your impressions of the mental health or personalities of other posters. I am only interested in The Villages in this forum and have NO interest in that type of dialogue."
At no point did Peachie mention the phrase "mentally ill". Even if she had, there is no way anyone would have misconstrued that to think she was referring to you. We all think you are an attribute to this board. You are highly regarded here, dear Tal. Further, Peachie is very erudite. Her writing is forthright. I feel no hidden agendas with her posts. She says what she means and means what she says. I, too, hope to meet her. Peachie, I think you are the bomb!



Agree that Peachie is erudite, Samhass. ;D

I did come onto TOTV with an agenda of my survivors' rights to information campaign but I do not think I have overdone it like I did quite a bit on Findlaw's message boards and while trying to get a foot in the door into public librarianship employment in the Tampa Bay area from 2000 through 2003. Many of the Tampa Bay area public libraries as well as the law libraries STILL do not , the last I checked, have a link to the FL Victim Services Directory. http://myfloridalegal.com/directory

Do hope to see Peachie at one of the Crispers' meetings or somewhere else here in TV. :agree:

I do think that some Villagers are also quite involved with improving their community whatever the opinions of Blechman and others like Hugh Bartling's article might imply. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section~content=a768593178~db=all~start=768593205~ fulltext=713240929~dontcount=true

[Peachie]

I'm back from the dentist and catching up before on to laundry. I don't know that I'm erudite, (Sam, we may have to get you blacker coffee in the morning ;D), but, Tal, you are a wealth of info and along with so many others, make the forum worthwhile.

Mr. Peachie and I are working snowbirds, (or golfbats), and are not fulltime residents of Florida yet. But discussions between the two of us are ongoing and we are seriously contemplating that option soon and that explains our intense interest in the happenings and management of The Villages. If we opt to go fulltime in Florida, we would then want to consider larger accommodations vs the villa. But we have made great strides downsizing and really like free time vs, (in George Carlin's word's), "stuff". Ooops, wrong thread for this paragraph...

I hope to meet everyone at Crispers meeting in the future, Tal. When the first opportunity comes along, I'll be there!

[renielarson]

I am so sorry this is soooooo long, but I have to clear my brain....

DISCLAIMER: What is furthermore stated must be viewed with an open mind. I am not saying I agree with what I'm about to write but admit it's part of the jumbled up thoughts I'm trying to sort in my head right now. I'm opening these thoughts up for discussion with hopes of enlightenment from more learned TOTVers.

I believe in checks and balances. Doing extensive reading today about the CDD's has got me thinking. Right now the Central CDD's are tyrannical (by strict definition of the word) because they are controlled (owned?) by one person, the developer. The Central CDD owns all of the rec centers and all Executive golf courses and makes all decisions (without residential input) regarding these locations. Am I correct? Now, if I'm wrong, please educate me. Remember, I'm thinking out loud as I type so bear with me. Plus, I just read up on all this today so I'm a newbie trying to sort all this out.

The local residential CDD's are slowly being turned over to the residents as they are completed. The people who run these will be decided among the local residents residing within their local residential CDD? Am I correct?

I know we had no power with decision making regarding the CDD's, however, I think it would be a better idea to run them like our state governments with checks and balances. Let me explain. Local residential CDD's would be owned and run by people who live in their own local CDD (like the House of Representatives). They would represent the local residents only. The Central CDD's would be owned and run by anyone who lives in any Village within The Villages (like the Senate). They would represent ALL residents.

My brain says that local residential CDD's should be focused on the local residents while the Central CDD's should be focused on the good of all Villagers. Am I way out in left field?

Now, I also have to admit I've been thinking a lot about the POA. It definitely carries a negative image because it's trying to be a checks and balances organization. However, it appears to me from all my reading today, that perhaps the POA was backed into a corner because of the lack of cooperation from Mr. Schwartz at the get go that continues with Mr. Morse today. Do I need enlightenment with these thoughts? If so, I only ask that you be patient with me and explain with civility.

Please don't attack me...remember, I'm trying to sort all this out in my head and am asking for your help. I honestly think if I were Mr. Schwartz and Mr. Morse I would dig my heels in too if a group of people were going against a dream and a plan I had in mind. I know I don't take adversity very well myself when it comes to someone not agreeing with a "great" idea I'm sure I have.

Nevertheless, I keep thinking if only the POA would approach their issues differently. I think it was Peachie (but I could be wrong) who posted a while back about wording posts differently because it's not what we say but how we say it. Great words of advice not only for posters (me included) but the POA also. The POA could be a good voice for residents if only...

Ok, here my brain goes into mumble jumble again as I continue to think about the POA and the VHA. Both have residents' interests first and foremost. However, the POA coins itself as the "watchdog." The VHA coins itself as a facilitator of communications. Knowing I will be pounced upon although I hope not cause I'm really trying to sort this out, I must say that negativity stares me in the face with my initial reading of mission statements.

I think I'll stop here because I'm looking for your comments and views and anything else you want to say. I may have opened a can of worms and if so, let me apologize now.

[samhass]

Bright, I think you are just trying to start trouble. 1rnfl
Actually, I think your post was well thought out and may encourage us all to consider our local "government" more carefully. Thank you.

[graciegirl]

Brightspot?

Are you sure that's you???

Your writing style sounds like Boomers today.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

[samhass]

Gracie, she sounds like Peachie, too!





Brightspot?

Are you sure that's you???

Your writing style sounds like Boomers today.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

[ladykathleen]

Ok,

I had to respond especially where comments concern the POA in a negative way. Your wonderful Village is still wonderful because of our district boards, the POA and residents who monitor , take a stand and see that this "Lifestyle" continues to exisit. Please read my earlier post about how I became involved. I am not political nor care to be, however, I will monitor how my money is spent and monitor my lifestyle which was promised to me upon moving here.

[Peachie]

I think your brain is mighty fine, Bright and your mapping of the situation brings some clarity to understanding CCD's.

Kathleen, I understood Bright's comments on the POA as constructive critisism, not just a negative comment, (correct me if I am wrong, Bright), and people may not be turned off by the POA supporters as much if they would step off the soapbox, stop lecturing and talk with the people in the communities. Even though a few residents think they are saving everyone, it's a numbers game and the POA won't survive without putting down the battering ram once in a while and engaging the people. That may the reason the POA is having problems getting someone to take over the reins...

And without malice, Kathleen, I just don't understand why you stay here. It's nothing like it was for you and if you have been here that long, you will easily recoup your investment, plus.
Your unhappiness with The Villages is palpable and it doesn't seem to make you happy any more. It is not my objective to run you out of The Villages, but more so that you would be happy in your life and not so disappointed.

[renielarson]

I apologize to you, ladykathleen, if you think I worded my post as negative towards the POA. That was not my intention. I was only stating my observation from reading the mission statement and how I interpreted the statement personally. In all honesty, I'm trying to catagorize my brain and make sense of all this.

I posted as a means of working all this information out, sorting it, and digesting it. Please don't ride my back ladykathleen because that is what I feared most and what I was not looking for. I'm hoping for intelligent conversation and clarification if I'm wrong with my thoughts and assumptions.

And to all the rest of you..... :edit: ya all (I say that with love ;) and you know I'm joking with you, I hope) cause when I have time to think my brain really does work. Well, sometimes...:redface: (I'm born and bred in the land of Wizard of Oz.)

[Best Mom]

Peachie,
I sent you two friendly pms to answer your bold questions of me. I don't know why you were questioning me? I notice you didn't say a thing about the meat of my two pms. Please know I have a history with two certain posters who have bullied me since I didn't agree with them on the horse park.(Months ago) Anything I say, will be mocked, twisted and turned into a public lynching. I can't win. I have been accused of things I never did. I have cried for days over that. But I have moved on.
Also, know I have a dial up and don't take the time to post or read much. I am way too busy. I am answering this because someone emailed me of what is being said . I am late already for a volunteer job.
Peachie-feel free to share ALL of both of my pms. I said "The Villages are like the USA. I love the USA but I don't always agree with the government."Don't bother to ask me any more questions and you won't get anymore pms. By your actions, you might be a friend of one of my attackers.
Someone asked where I live. I live in Ashland and I just love it there. That was in the pm. We have alot of groups and parties and I have a great deal of friends in Ashland. As I have said before, I volunteer a great deal and I have to go now.
Please don't attack, people should be able to post without attacks.

I have never met ladykathleen but I still agree with what she says.

Peace to all,
Best Mom

[renielarson]

Best Mom

If I offend you I apologize but I do have advice for you...Chill, hon. TOTV is not worth getting your panties in a wad nor raising your blood pressure. Stop and smell the roses, ok?

[Peachie]

Best Mom, I have not met any of the people in this forum to date, have not sent any PM's to anyone and I did save your emails. I will be happy to share the emails on this forum if you desire... maybe you should rethink that idea. The public forum is where I would discuss topics with you, not PM's. I had no agenda with you personally, the discussion was about The Villages but your PM went where, frankly, I'm not going. I promise not to ask you anymore questions if you promise not to post information that begs questioning. Good luck with your volunteering and have a happy life.

*Please let me know about sharing the emails, via this forum.

[Best Mom]

Peachie,
I feel your pain about not understanding this board. I have tried to send you an answer twice and I lost them both! But I have all my pms and I am sure you have my pms too. I saved my pms to you on purpose and I just reread them. Remember I said I love it here but am worried about what will happen when they are done building houses. I told you to reread ladykathleen and Tals posts. I told you CDDs are different than other developments. I told you ladykathleen just wanted to educate people. I wished you well. Wished you a good night.
As far as my friends emailing me, I was so new to a computer board that I used my real name and my real email address. So I have friends on this board who email me. You can show your email address if you want to. My daughter, for internet safety, changed my name and hid my email address.
As I told you, I don't spend much time on the computer. Two posters have decided to attack every post I have made since the horse park issue.
My attackers came on as very sweet and sucked me in last year but people who follow this board know how they treated me. They have two sides and they befriended you in a hurry. Even in this thread, my friends tell me they have used my name and made more nasty posts.
Let me just say that all my pms, which my attackers are welcome to see, are meant to help people. That is my goal in life. That is why I volunteer so much and spend so little time on TOTV. I learned.
There are tons of clubs, groups, and friendly people here. Most of the people on TOTV are very nice people. But this is a big place and there are thousands and thousands who don't post here. I wrote you a ton more but lets just say... Good Luck Peachie.
Bright -you chill! I would never say the things you do. And who said I wear panties? :o
So to my attackers. You don't know me and you are liars. I am done with you. Hold your attacks because I won't be on here for awhile. I am going to visit my daughter in Paris. I have the best daughter in the world!
Peace to all,
Best Mom

[Peachie]

Best Mom, that is a great synopsis but you forgot the unkindly remarks and the names you included in your email. I am not interested in furthur dialog with you, (I received another PM tonight from you). The emails will be posted here if you desire, make your wishes known via this forum.

.

[chelsea24]

BM, sweetie, my disdain for you has nothing to do with a Horse Park.


http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/chelsea24_photos/psychodrama.gif

[Peachie]

(I'm beginning to think I'm being hazed for initiation into the TOTV forum, this had been weird to say the least.... :dontknow:)

[chelsea24]

Hahaha Peachie! Don't get scared off, please. This was not at all meant for you. ;D

[Best Mom]

I sent no pms to you!!
Last Sat. I sent 2 pms to answer your bold question of me. That's it!!

A while ago I was so stupid I gave my login information to someone I thought was a friend. Check again. If you did get a pm from me tonight...someone is using my identity. ???

I gave you the info on my attackers-I tried to explain it to you. Just reread the thread. Give their names if you want. I will pull up the threads with what they said to me. People who have been on this thread long enough already know them.

I would like to know if someone is using my identity. That would explain alot.

Yes I want to be done too!

[Peachie]

Best Mom, I apologize, you did not send another PM tonight... it was one of the earlier PM's. We have an agreement, I believe, no more PM's to me. You may advise me via this forum, if you want the emails you sent to me posted.


Chels, I didn't think you were directing that to me, lol. I'm going to bed, enough of the twilight zone tonight... :o

[Best Mom]

Peachie,
That's ok.
Have a good life.
Best Mom

[Rokinronda]

Best Mom, You gave me your log in for a picture of snow white that you asked me to do for you. Now for you to say I could or would use your identity is absurd. I have no idea what your log in is and wouldn't want to know. You asked me to put a Snow White for your avatar, then told everyone on this forum that I did it. That I was the copyright infringer. I had no idea of the infringement, but am not happy with the blame you are putting on me. Be careful who you talk bad about in the forum and PM's to people you have never met. You will end up with no friends.

[Best Mom]

Rhonda,
You are right and I will always appreciate your help. I never never said you infringled on any copyright law. Sam brought up the topic and I just wanted to make sure snowwhite was legal. Tony jumped in and changed it but please- no blame to you ever- for being helpful.

You are one of the nicest people I have ever met.

I have ton and tons of friends from my neightbors, people at the pool, people from the clubs I am in, people from the sports I play and even some from TOTV. There are people on here I wouldn't want to be friends with after the way I have been treated.

[diskman]

Best Mom,
It was I who asked where you lived as you made YOUR village and street sound so spectacular, that we wanted to be sure stop check out that area on our next trip.
Larry & Bev :bigthumbsup:

[Taltarzac]

Bright, I think you are just trying to start trouble. 1rnfl
Actually, I think your post was well thought out and may encourage us all to consider our local "government" more carefully. Thank you.


:agree: with Samhass, Bright. It https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php/topic,8929.msg82532.html#msg82532 is a well thought out and articulated post.:bigthumbsup:

[ladykathleen]

Beautifully written Brightspot01, you definetly earned your name. Please read though when the VHA was formed and why and please read Harold Swartz's letter after he lost the lawsuit brought against him by the Villagers.

The POA has been so "dammed" by the negative vibes contained in the VHA that yes they have been backed into a corner. The present leadership is exhausted from being the watchdog and anyone can participate and take the organization toward a new direction. You need only to lead. I do wish I had heeded the information about the CSST gas pipe that they wrote about last year. There was a class action lawsuit that has been settled nationwide that was begun in another state because a lighting strike to a structure that has this pipe in their attics like we all do , will cause the gas to explode. My neighbor did say I could still become part of this lawsuit.

[graciegirl]

I am sorry to tiptoe into the fray, but my daughters said to tell you all that I am the BEST MOM. Sorry.

[KCinBAMA]

... Doing extensive reading today about the CDD's ...


Brightspot,

Can you provide any or all your references please? I'd be very interested in learning all I can about this form of government.

Thanks,
Kurt

[Peachie]

I am sure you are Graciegirl :agree:. The reminds me of when our sons where little and would ask where I was going as I headed out the door to mailbox. I always told them I was going out to get my "Mother of the Year" check. Hasn't come to this day :dontknow:.

[`willy]

KURT
Here's some interesting reading

WILLY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_Florida

[renielarson]

Certainly Kurt

Click on "Links" at the top of any Talk of the Villages page. Then click on "Links for the Villages". I read the bottom 3 links:

Villages Homeowners Association (VHA)
Property Owners' Association of The Villages (POA)
Who Owns The Recreation Centers & The Executive Golf Courses In The Villages?

Here's the url if you prefer a shortcut
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/smf/index.php?action=links;cat=5

[KCinBAMA]

Willy & Brightspot,

Thanks, I'll get started.

[Taltarzac]

A more positive spin on the Villages from The Orlando Business Journal. http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2008/08/11/story6.html

Checked link August 27, 2008.

[graciegirl]

The article Tal just posted shows that we villagers are more in control of our destiny than some people think. We are handling what is happening NOW. Unfortunatly that causes more growth and some people don't like that. I do however.

[samhass]

Well Gracie, as Paris would say.."We're hot!!"

[JohnN]

graciegirl,
like you, I don't mind growth, seems growth and change are inevitable and may as well embrace it instead of fighting it - and make the best of it

[downeaster]

Growth here in The Villages is carefully planned, controlled and executed. This includes appearance, drainage, facilities, traffic, etc.
Most growth is the result of land sold to numerous developers and it is developed with no foresight. The results are not pretty.
It has been said before but it is worth repeating. We may not have a perfect situation here but there is none better.

DC

[KayakerNC]

A more positive spin on the Villages from The Orlando Business Journal. http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2008/08/11/story6.html

This article is for Paid Print Subscribers ONLY.

Not nice.

[Taltarzac]

This article is for Paid Print Subscribers ONLY.

Not nice.


You can see the short version of this article on-line. I have no access to the full article if there is one. http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2008/08/11/story6.html

Checked link, August 27, 2008.

[KayakerNC]

You can see the short version of this article on-line. I have no access to the full article if there is one. http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2008/08/11/story6.html


Yes, there is one.
http://www.congoo.com/news/2008August11/Study-Villages-among-nation-small

[Peachie]

I think the featured article is only 4 short paragraphs per this link.

[KayakerNC]

Odd.
If you go thru this link, click on the "Read Full Article", it will allow you to view the entire article on-line.
http://www.congoo.com/news/2008August11/Study-Villages-among-nation-small

[Peachie]

The whole article came in with that link, Kayaker, thank you. :bigthumbsup:

[Taltarzac]

The whole article came in with that link, Kayaker, thank you. :bigthumbsup:


Thanks, Kayaker. :bigthumbsup:

[villages07]

Thanks Kayaker...

One statistic they quoted surprised me:

Adults with bachelor's degrees: 11.4 percent

I would have thought the figure would be much higher.

[Taltarzac]

Thanks Kayaker...

One statistic they quoted surprised me:

Adults with bachelor's degrees: 11.4 percent

I would have thought the figure would be much higher.


That seems close to what it would be according to these statistics? http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/educLevel.php?locIndex=8939

Checked link, August 27, 2008.

[villages07]

2000 Census for all of Sumter County showed Bachelors or higher of 12.2%

TV Population in 2000 was 25,000

In Dec 07 it surpassed 70,000

So, my assumption is that the % of TV residents with Bachelors or Higher today is much more than quoted in the article. No proof, just assumption. Guess they were using 2000 Census figures.

[Taltarzac]

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[samhass]

Tal, do you want more of us to copy and paste The Villages, Florida the Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida
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[Donna]

Here we go again...

The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida
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The Villages, Florida the Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida :bigthumbsup:

[Taltarzac]

Tal, do you want more of us to copy and paste The Villages, Florida the Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida
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The Villages, Florida the Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida???????


I am not sure what the spyder actually does but assume that as long as there are hits on a thread with this paste it should help on the Google index number for Talk of the Villages??

[samhass]

I assume the same so here we go again! The Villages, Florida the Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida The Villages, Florida
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