Mangrove Executive Course

[fred53]

most of the greens on these courses are in serious need of help...the root system on most greens is at or near zero so even relatively flat surfaces are a lost cause without rolling the greens every few days...the only decent greens are no.'s 7 & 8 on Palmetto.

You will find if you try to fix a divot the proper way you end up with clumps of dirt and can't do a proper job of it...this is mostly due to no root structure to keep things together...

What can we do? Call GMA and report the conditions...this is what it takes...you can whine if you like, but it isn't necessary...so give them a ring and let em know you care...thanks...

(352) 753-3396(I think)

[Bay Kid]

Such a shame....

[rjn5656]

Sweetgum was closed yesterday. Mangrove greens need serious work.

[Jayhawk]

These 3 courses are managed by the folks at Evans Prairie. Start there.

[rubicon]

most of the greens on these courses are in serious need of help...the root system on most greens is at or near zero so even relatively flat surfaces are a lost cause without rolling the greens every few days...the only decent greens are no.'s 7 & 8 on Palmetto.

You will find if you try to fix a divot the proper way you end up with clumps of dirt and can't do a proper job of it...this is mostly due to no root structure to keep things together...

What can we do? Call GMA and report the conditions...this is what it takes...you can whine if you like, but it isn't necessary...so give them a ring and let em know you care...thanks...

(352) 753-3396(I think)

With a free golf the rest of your life along with play from guests and renters what should one expect?

[Mikeod]

Well, to answer Rubicon's question, I expect a golf course on which you can play actual golf. That means grass on the tees, greens where you can roll a ball without bouncing, and sand traps where you get the lie you deserve and not in a footprint or old divot.

Why do we not get these things? There are multiple factors.

Perhaps the most important is the tendency, IMO, for courses to be opened before they are ready. The three courses in this discussion are prime examples of this. I was fortunate to play all three before they were opened to regular play. All three showed signs they were not ready. Primarily, the greens had bald areas where the grass had not completely filled in. In some cases, overseeding was done to fill in thin or bare areas to make the greens somewhat playable. But when the overseed died off, we were left with multiple bare spots and bumpy greens. Why was this done? Again, IMO, it was done because of demand. These three courses were the first executives opened below 466A. Many homes were already occupied in that area and there was frustration among residents having to drive by courses in their neighborhood they were unable to play. All three courses were opened in the fall, just before the high season (although a year apart). Thus, the result is immature courses opened during a season where the base grass is not growing well and when it will have the most traffic. A recipe for problems.

Which leads to the second factor. Traffic. Especially when new, these courses are subjected to play from sunup to sundown. Seven days a week usually. And it is no secret that maintenance by players is a concern. Unrepaired ball marks, unfilled divots, and unraked sand traps abound. Add these to an immature course and it will deteriorate fairly rapidly.

But there is hope. Look at what was done with Volusia. It was opened during the high season and used overseeding to make the greens playable even though the base grass was incomplete. Then, they closed it after the high season to let the greens fill in better. Reports since it opened have been very positive. Also, once people stop flocking to new courses, they tend to return to more local courses for the bulk of their play, which spreads out the volume of play. It is notable that we hear fewer problems with the courses in the north (Walnut Grove, Briarwood, Oakley, and Amberwood) than courses in the south. Perhaps because these courses are older and have had time to develop a strong base layer. We should also note that the district has begun renewing some of the older courses such as Hilltop and Silver Lake. Currently De La Vista is being completely re-done. A lot of work is being done at Mira Mesa on the greens, including a complete re-make of #9. Chula Vista was redone a few summers ago. I think those in charge are listening and truly care.

But we golfers have to do our share in keeping the courses in the best shape they can be. Yes, we can't grow the grass for them, but we can take care of our divots, and maybe a couple of others. We can repair our ball marks, and some more. We can rake our footprints and divot in traps, and maybe some adjacent that were not done. If we have physical limitations that prevent these activities, we can ask a fellow player to help us. At our meeting this Thursday with representatives of the district and GMS, we will be discussing ways to inform executive course golfers on how they can make a difference in maintaining the courses.

Maybe I'm just a glass half full type, but I believe these courses will improve and become three of the favorite courses in TV.

[tomwed]

I got paired up with a guy on Turtle Mound the other day. He told me that the ponds are healthy because they are loaded with pollywogs. I asked how this could be with all the fertilizer used to maintain a course.

Much to my surprise he said they don't use fertilizer. If that's true, I think it's amazing any of the courses are green.

[Mikeod]

I got paired up with a guy on Turtle Mound the other day. He told me that the ponds are healthy because they are loaded with pollywogs. I asked how this could be with all the fertilizer used to maintain a course.

Much to my surprise he said they don't use fertilizer. If that's true, I think it's amazing any of the courses are green.
Not true. I know they have to be careful about the type, method of application, and avoidance of runoff to keep their certification with the Audubon Society. But there is no way the courses could be this green without fertilizer. And periodically, you can see fine granules on greens, tees, and fairways.

[fred53]

Sweetgum was closed yesterday. Mangrove greens need serious work.

for a week...just like all exec courses do...in a rotation...

[tomwed]

I played mangrove twice yesterday. I think it's in good shape. What is a little unnerving is walking across the bridge between hole 3 and 4. It's dry, but the water is very close to the top. So when I walked across the bridge my imagination was getting the best of me. It seemed possible a gator could slip right on the bridge from either side. I walked as quick as I could in the morning and in the afternoon I walked in front of the cart.

[Edjkoz]

Well, to answer Rubicon's question, I expect a golf course on which you can play actual golf. That means grass on the tees, greens where you can roll a ball without bouncing, and sand traps where you get the lie you deserve and not in a footprint or old divot.

Why do we not get these things? There are multiple factors.

Perhaps the most important is the tendency, IMO, for courses to be opened before they are ready. The three courses in this discussion are prime examples of this. I was fortunate to play all three before they were opened to regular play. All three showed signs they were not ready. Primarily, the greens had bald areas where the grass had not completely filled in. In some cases, overseeding was done to fill in thin or bare areas to make the greens somewhat playable. But when the overseed died off, we were left with multiple bare spots and bumpy greens. Why was this done? Again, IMO, it was done because of demand. These three courses were the first executives opened below 466A. Many homes were already occupied in that area and there was frustration among residents having to drive by courses in their neighborhood they were unable to play. All three courses were opened in the fall, just before the high season (although a year apart). Thus, the result is immature courses opened during a season where the base grass is not growing well and when it will have the most traffic. A recipe for problems.

Which leads to the second factor. Traffic. Especially when new, these courses are subjected to play from sunup to sundown. Seven days a week usually. And it is no secret that maintenance by players is a concern. Unrepaired ball marks, unfilled divots, and unraked sand traps abound. Add these to an immature course and it will deteriorate fairly rapidly.

But there is hope. Look at what was done with Volusia. It was opened during the high season and used overseeding to make the greens playable even though the base grass was incomplete. Then, they closed it after the high season to let the greens fill in better. Reports since it opened have been very positive. Also, once people stop flocking to new courses, they tend to return to more local courses for the bulk of their play, which spreads out the volume of play. It is notable that we hear fewer problems with the courses in the north (Walnut Grove, Briarwood, Oakley, and Amberwood) than courses in the south. Perhaps because these courses are older and have had time to develop a strong base layer. We should also note that the district has begun renewing some of the older courses such as Hilltop and Silver Lake. Currently De La Vista is being completely re-done. A lot of work is being done at Mira Mesa on the greens, including a complete re-make of #9. Chula Vista was redone a few summers ago. I think those in charge are listening and truly care.

But we golfers have to do our share in keeping the courses in the best shape they can be. Yes, we can't grow the grass for them, but we can take care of our divots, and maybe a couple of others. We can repair our ball marks, and some more. We can rake our footprints and divot in traps, and maybe some adjacent that were not done. If we have physical limitations that prevent these activities, we can ask a fellow player to help us. At our meeting this Thursday with representatives of the district and GMS, we will be discussing ways to inform executive course golfers on how they can make a difference in maintaining the courses.

Maybe I'm just a glass half full type, but I believe these courses will improve and become three of the favorite courses in TV.



Bravo, well said

[DONKEY10]

With a free golf the rest of your life along with play from guests and renters what should one expect?

You exactly right. I am sick and tired of all these people complaining about the condition of the courses. A good player can play on any course in any condition. Just play and enjoy the game.

[justjim]

Well, to answer Rubicon's question, I expect a golf course on which you can play actual golf. That means grass on the tees, greens where you can roll a ball without bouncing, and sand traps where you get the lie you deserve and not in a footprint or old divot.

Why do we not get these things? There are multiple factors.

Perhaps the most important is the tendency, IMO, for courses to be opened before they are ready. The three courses in this discussion are prime examples of this. I was fortunate to play all three before they were opened to regular play. All three showed signs they were not ready. Primarily, the greens had bald areas where the grass had not completely filled in. In some cases, overseeding was done to fill in thin or bare areas to make the greens somewhat playable. But when the overseed died off, we were left with multiple bare spots and bumpy greens. Why was this done? Again, IMO, it was done because of demand. These three courses were the first executives opened below 466A. Many homes were already occupied in that area and there was frustration among residents having to drive by courses in their neighborhood they were unable to play. All three courses were opened in the fall, just before the high season (although a year apart). Thus, the result is immature courses opened during a season where the base grass is not growing well and when it will have the most traffic. A recipe for problems.

Which leads to the second factor. Traffic. Especially when new, these courses are subjected to play from sunup to sundown. Seven days a week usually. And it is no secret that maintenance by players is a concern. Unrepaired ball marks, unfilled divots, and unraked sand traps abound. Add these to an immature course and it will deteriorate fairly rapidly.

But there is hope. Look at what was done with Volusia. It was opened during the high season and used overseeding to make the greens playable even though the base grass was incomplete. Then, they closed it after the high season to let the greens fill in better. Reports since it opened have been very positive. Also, once people stop flocking to new courses, they tend to return to more local courses for the bulk of their play, which spreads out the volume of play. It is notable that we hear fewer problems with the courses in the north (Walnut Grove, Briarwood, Oakley, and Amberwood) than courses in the south. Perhaps because these courses are older and have had time to develop a strong base layer. We should also note that the district has begun renewing some of the older courses such as Hilltop and Silver Lake. Currently De La Vista is being completely re-done. A lot of work is being done at Mira Mesa on the greens, including a complete re-make of #9. Chula Vista was redone a few summers ago. I think those in charge are listening and truly care.

But we golfers have to do our share in keeping the courses in the best shape they can be. Yes, we can't grow the grass for them, but we can take care of our divots, and maybe a couple of others. We can repair our ball marks, and some more. We can rake our footprints and divot in traps, and maybe some adjacent that were not done. If we have physical limitations that prevent these activities, we can ask a fellow player to help us. At our meeting this Thursday with representatives of the district and GMS, we will be discussing ways to inform executive course golfers on how they can make a difference in maintaining the courses.

Maybe I'm just a glass half full type, but I believe these courses will improve and become three of the favorite courses in TV.

:BigApplause: An excellent post. I too get very frustrated with those who don't see the need to take care of our executive courses. I know there are a number of inexperienced golfers on the Executive Courses but I see folks who know better not fixing ball marks, divots and raking traps.

FREE! These courses are not free. We pay good money every month to maintain these courses.