Lighting the Multi Modal Path

[outlaw]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.

[red tail]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.

all it would require for this idea would be toll booths to pay for it

[graciegirl]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.



OR...if we are having trouble seeing on cart paths we could take our automobile to where we are going. The streets are nicely lit.


It is a golf cart friendly community, not a golf cart dependent community.

[billethkid]

And it will only cost you $1 or $2 per day increase in your amenity fee or $30 to $60 more per month.

Is that OK?

[Navy (SSBN 633)]

Unreal....how about bumper rails in addition to the lights

[TVMayor]

What if the developer paid for and installed windshield wipers on all golf carts?

What if the developer paid for taxi service for legally blind people who drive golf carts?

What if you adjust the direction of your headlights so you can see, if they can not be adjusted you or the AAC could install a second set of headlights that can be adjusted.

In a nut shell, it is your problem to solve if you can not see to drive not mine. Fix it yourself before you kill someone. Plan “B” park it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.

You forgot the smiley face.........................

[cquick]

if you are going too fast to see the path in front of you with your golf cart headlights, then you need to slow down. We have plenty of streetlights in The Villages.

[justjim]

Years ago in a place called The Villages a cry was heard by the Government to allow golf carts to travel after dark. The Government heard the cry of the people and night time driving was allowed. In the years that followed, many accidents occurred.

Now a cry was heard by the Government to strip the MMP'S down the center and on the sides. It was "thought" this will eliminate many accidents. At first the cry of the people was heard, and the Government heard the cry and said yes. Then it was said that it would cost $300,000 and maybe more. The Government said lets reconsider because again we have the cry of the people.

What will the Government do?

[DonH57]

Maybe disco lighting would be another option !

[CWGUY]

Maybe disco lighting would be another option !

With the music too......STAYIN ALIVE... STAYIN ALIVE! :D

[dbussone]

With the music too......STAYIN ALIVE... STAYIN ALIVE! :D


[emoji443]Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Stayin Alive![emoji445]

[Bogie Shooter]

Years ago in a place called The Villages a cry was heard by the Government to allow golf carts to travel after dark. The Government heard the cry of the people and night time driving was allowed. In the years that followed, many accidents occurred.

Now a cry was heard by the Government to strip the MMP'S down the center and on the sides. It was "thought" this will eliminate many accidents. At first the cry of the people was heard, and the Government heard the cry and said yes. Then it was said that it would cost $300,000 and maybe more. The Government said lets reconsider because again we have the cry of the people.

What will the Government do?

All true except;

[rubicon]

Wen to government decides it usually decides wrong

[justjim]

All true except;

You are correct---it should say "many accidents perceived".

[Bogie Shooter]

You are correct---it should say "many accidents perceived".

Thank you!

[vette]

What if the developer paid for and installed windshield wipers on all golf carts?

What if the developer paid for taxi service for legally blind people who drive golf carts?

What if you adjust the direction of your headlights so you can see, if they can not be adjusted you or the AAC could install a second set of headlights that can be adjusted.

In a nut shell, it is your problem to solve if you can not see to drive not mine. Fix it yourself before you kill someone. Plan “B” park it.
:a040:

Well stated ! As have almost all of the other posts. . .

[PennBF]

There is the option of installing the small lights along the front and side of the cart. This lights up the curbs and provides good light for approaching carts. It is an alternative. :read:

[T-325]

Hmmm..just ask Goggle to come up with self driving golf carts. No need to worry about ANYTHING at that point. Maybe The Villages could be a testing ground!

[Barefoot]

OR...if we are having trouble seeing on cart paths we could take our automobile to where we are going. The streets are nicely lit.
It is a golf cart friendly community, not a golf cart dependent community.
:thumbup:

[mickey100]

Years ago in a place called The Villages a cry was heard by the Government to allow golf carts to travel after dark. …... In the years that followed, many accidents occurred.

…….

Not true. And that's one of the reasons the engineering study did not recommend side striping. The engineers are the experts, and base their decisions on facts.

[OCsun]

Wow! Tuff crowd today. I think the golf cart round about at brownwood could use a light or two. It is located away from the main road lighting and can sometimes be very challenging to maneuver, even if you can see well, take your time and have good vision.

I guess that covers it!

[outlaw]

And it will only cost you $1 or $2 per day increase in your amenity fee or $30 to $60 more per month.

Is that OK?

I think a moderate increase is OK. After all, the money is being spent on us.

[tuccillo]

Read your CDD paperwork - it doesn't work that way. Increases in the amenities fee is tied to the CPI.


I think a moderate increase is OK. After all, the money is being spent on us.

[outlaw]

Read your CDD paperwork - it doesn't work that way. Increases in the amenities fee is tied to the CPI.

So are my property taxes. I believe the connection to CPI is a limit. In other words, the AF increase cannot exceed the CPI in any year. But that does not mean the AF has to be increased each year.

[tuccillo]

Your previous post suggested a moderate increase in the amenities fee. There really isn't such a thing - just the increases dictated by the CPI. What the CDD spends must fit into that budget. Your post suggested to me some arbitrary, unilateral increase in the amenities fee.

So are my property taxes. I believe the connection to CPI is a limit. In other words, the AF increase cannot exceed the CPI in any year. But that does not mean the AF has to be increased each year.

[outlaw]

Your previous post suggested a moderate increase in the amenities fee. There really isn't such a thing - just the increases dictated by the CPI. What the CDD spends must fit into that budget. Your post suggested to me some arbitrary, unilateral increase in the amenities fee.

I guess I see it as a budget thing. For a capital improvement such as striping or ball field lights that don't fit in the current budget, one could identify excess funds. There probably is a general fund for things like an unexpected expense such as substantial bridge repair or tree cutting fines and replanting. Over time, the AFs are increased to the maximum each year until the AFs cover the added expenses.

[tuccillo]

Yes, presumably there is a certain amount of slush to cover some unexpected things. I suspect big ticket items (softball field work) have been planned for some time and actually shows up in the budgets.

I guess I see it as a budget thing. For a capital improvement such as striping or ball field lights that don't fit in the current budget, one could identify excess funds. There probably is a general fund for things like an unexpected expense such as substantial bridge repair or tree cutting fines and replanting. Over time, the AFs are increased to the maximum each year until the AFs cover the added expenses.

[PennBF]

This has become a "Political Football" and that is never the way to solve a problem. There are only 2 or 3 options, (e.g. paint center lines, curb painting or install your own lights on your cart.) Unfortunately there are those who have lost objective positions and are tied to their own wishes. This never leads to the best solution or answer. It only leads to each digging in their heals and thus the loss of the best answer. One of the basic rules of compromise is that each will changed their mind if convinced by the other. This logic has obviously been lost. It is now who can yell loud and over the other? There are the walkers who think they are at risk if the center lines are painted, the bikers who feel about the same, the cart drivers who think both of these arguments don't make sense. and the ones who don't want to spend money and say to just be careful. Talk about a dysfunctional group of arguments.:ho:

[Walter123]

We already have too much light on the cart paths. Bud light that is.

[Barefoot]

This has become a "Political Football" and that is never the way to solve a problem. There are only 2 or 3 options, (e.g. paint center lines, curb painting or install your own lights on your cart.) Unfortunately there are those who have lost objective positions and are tied to their own wishes. This never leads to the best solution or answer. It only leads to each digging in their heals and thus the loss of the best answer. One of the basic rules of compromise is that each will changed their mind if convinced by the other. This logic has obviously been lost. It is now who can yell loud and over the other? There are the walkers who think they are at risk if the center lines are painted, the bikers who feel about the same, the cart drivers who think both of these arguments don't make sense. and the ones who don't want to spend money and say to just be careful. Talk about a dysfunctional group of arguments.:ho: Do you have a convincing argument for your point of view?
Or are you just scolding us for expressing our "dysfunctional" opinions?

[PennBF]

The note regarding whether I have a "convincing argument" is a fine example of my point. The answer is no. That would imply that under the current positions all would agree with my argument. Given the heals and opinions that have been dug in it would be naive of me to believe I have found the answer that would cause all to agree. When I mentioned "dysfunctional group of arguments" it was based on the definition of "dysfunctional" which includes unhealthy interpersonal behavior within a group. I believe that not to work together to solve this problem but rather lock into a position is an example of unhealthy interpersonal behavior. I hope this clarifies my note.:ho:

[Polar Bear]

The note regarding whether I have a "convincing argument" is a fine example of my point. The answer is no. That would imply that under the current positions all would agree with my argument. Given the heals and opinions that have been dug in it would be naive of me to believe I have found the answer that would cause all to agree. When I mentioned "dysfunctional group of arguments" it was based on the definition of "dysfunctional" which includes unhealthy interpersonal behavior within a group. I believe that not to work together to solve this problem but rather lock into a position is an example of unhealthy interpersonal behavior. I hope this clarifies my note.:ho:

Not for me.

I agree with Barefoot. Sounds like your just scolding everybody, disguising it with some high-falootin' language.

[PennBF]

Wow this is the first time I have been accused of using "high falootin" language. That is really funny. I never realized "dysfunctional" is high falootin. You can't make this stuff up. There is really no where to go from here since I don't want to lose the readers because I am being too "high falootin". Is there any wonder as to why the MMP issues continue to drag on? :ho:

[Polar Bear]

Wow this is the first time I have been accused of using "high falootin" language. That is really funny. I never realized "dysfunctional" is high falootin. You can't make this stuff up. There is really no where to go from here since I don't want to lose the readers because I am being too "high falootin"...
Oh, don't sell yourself short. You picked just one word out of your post. You do yourself a disservice.

[TheVillageChicken]

I guess the pro-stripping stance is that if one can clearly see the side of the road marked by something highly visible, they won't run off the road. Well, somebody didn't get the memo. These are two different posts on Mulberry Trail.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post2.jpg

[Arctic Fox]

All of the striping suggestions and costings appear to be based on 100% of the length of the paths being painted.

In reality, driving along a straight section of path is relatively easy, even in low visibility situations.

Side-striping just the bends and their approaches would make the danger areas safer, whilst reducing the overall cost significantly.

[Polar Bear]

These are two different posts on Mulberry Trail.
Wait...MMP posts were hit? That does it...stop the striping movement immediately. :rolleyes:

[Shimpy]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.

I'm thinking this post has to be a joke. Can you imagine what 1 mile of running street lights would cost compared to painting stripes?

[NavyNJ]

Wait...MMP posts were hit? That does it...stop the striping movement immediately. :rolleyes:

Lighted posts maybe?? Could use a small solar collector and low voltage LED lights to minimize costs and ongoing maintenance. And for better daytime visibility, maybe stripe the posts, barber pole style! :)

[OCsun]

NavyNJ, Great suggestion! :clap2:

[Justus]

I guess the pro-stripping stance is that if one can clearly see the side of the road marked by something highly visible, they won't run off the road. Well, somebody didn't get the memo. These are two different posts on Mulberry Trail.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post2.jpg

:BigApplause: Love it! :1rotfl:

[Justus]

Oh, don't sell yourself short. You picked just one word out of your post. You do yourself a disservice.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Polar Bear]

...Side-striping just the bends and their approaches would make the danger areas safer, whilst reducing the overall cost significantly.

Agree. I'm not in favor of striping the entire MMP. I've just noticed some localized areas that could benefit from some edge-striping or reflectors.

[The Buckeyes]

How about those embedded reflective light you sometimes see on the highways. Maybe have them solar powered. It may be expensive, or not because they are spaced apart. Did engineers cost it out compared to the cost of continuous re-painting. Just a thought

[kcrazorbackfan]

There is the option of installing the small lights along the front and side of the cart. This lights up the curbs and provides good light for approaching carts. It is an alternative. :read:

We did that with lights installed from Liquid Lights. A strip of lights above and below the headlights and a single strip on the side. Lights up everything around our carts real nice.

[NavyNJ]

NavyNJ, Great suggestion! :clap2:

Haha!! Glad you liked that. Or......they could install a system of Fresnel Lens-based light systems to "guide" cart drivers safely into intersections or past medians, similar to those shown at the link, and used in aircraft carrier landing systems! :}


Aircraft Carrier Landing System (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg/1017px-Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg)

[asianthree]

Have you been on the paths after 8ish hardly anyone around after dark

[dbussone]

How about those embedded reflective light you sometimes see on the highways. Maybe have them solar powered. It may be expensive, or not because they are spaced apart. Did engineers cost it out compared to the cost of continuous re-painting. Just a thought


I think you've hit on a problem. Do we know if any alternatives to striping were considered, and what they and there costs are?

[dbussone]

Haha!! Glad you liked that. Or......they could install a system of Fresnel Lens-based light systems to "guide" cart drivers safely into intersections or past medians, similar to those shown at the link, and used in aircraft carrier landing systems! :}





Aircraft Carrier Landing System (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg/1017px-Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg)


Great idea! Could you give us a rough estimate of the cost of a single system please? What a hoot! (I'm still laughing after looking at that light array.)

[WhoDat]

Haha!! Glad you liked that. Or......they could install a system of Fresnel Lens-based light systems to "guide" cart drivers safely into intersections or past medians, similar to those shown at the link, and used in aircraft carrier landing systems! :}


Aircraft Carrier Landing System (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg/1017px-Optical_Landing_System%2C_night%2C_aboard_USS_Dwig ht_D._Eisenhower_%28CVN-69%29.jpg)

Call the ball!

[villagetinker]

I guess the pro-stripping stance is that if one can clearly see the side of the road marked by something highly visible, they won't run off the road. Well, somebody didn't get the memo. These are two different posts on Mulberry Trail.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/allsteel29/post2.jpg

You know those posts, as well as trees, fire hydrants, poles, and the occasional building, etc, all are KNOWN to sneak into the path of an errant car or in this case golf cart, and then sneak back....:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Barefoot]

Agree. I'm not in favor of striping the entire MMP. I've just noticed some localized areas that could benefit from some edge-striping or reflectors. I think the elected officials should be exploring ideas like this --- it seems like a reasonable compromise.

[marianne237]

whatever happened to personal responsibility?

[vette]

whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Geez Marianne, that's a little harsh . . . :smiley:

After all it's not MY fault that I can't see at night; that I drank to much; that I'm to lazy to bring my regular glasses so I use my Sunglasses at night; that I have no depth perception; that I have no hand and eye coordination; that my reflexes are shot; etc., etc. etc. Which is why I need YOU to pass laws, spend your money, change your way of living, so that I can continue to be IRRESPONSIBLE. :cryin2: roflol !

[OCsun]

Geez Marianne, that's a little harsh . . . :smiley:

After all it's not MY fault that I can't see at night; that I drank to much; that I'm to lazy to bring my regular glasses so I use my Sunglasses at night; that I have no depth perception; that I have no hand and eye coordination; that my reflexes are shot; etc., etc. etc. Which is why I need YOU to pass laws, spend your money, change your way of living, so that I can continue to be IRRESPONSIBLE. :cryin2: roflol !

Does anyone else find it difficult to have a normal discussion on this form? It seems like we are taking one step forward then two steps back.

[PennBF]

Just an idea. You can install small lights that fit partially in the front of the cart and on the sides. The lights shine on the curbs and alert the on coming carts and walkers. This is taking ownership and not passing responsibilities to others.:ho:

[billethkid]

Ownership?
Resposibility?

What novel ideas.

If the small percentage of reckless, gotta go fast, hurry, hurry cart drivers would adapt to sensible driving like the rest of us, there would not be any discussion about what needs to be done to make the MMPs safer.

No matter what is done or not there is some percent of accidents that are due to natural causes that can happen to any one of us at any time. That is going to be there no matter what is done to the MMPs or not.

How many of the white poles that state carts only get knocked over? Replaced? Crashed and bashed?
The ones in our area get replaced at least 2-3 times per year. They even tried going to a pole twice as thick.
NOTHING works. Irresponsible driving.....too fast.....

Driving responsibly is the single biggest improvement that will eliminate any discussions of need for the infrastructure to make us safer.

[Polar Bear]

...If the small percentage of reckless, gotta go fast, hurry, hurry cart drivers would adapt to sensible driving like the rest of us, there would not be any discussion about what needs to be done to make the MMPs safer...

I get so tired of this argument. So if all cart drivers were perfect drivers...like you of course...there would be no need for ANY safety features. (I assume that goes for our streets and highways too.)



Yeah, right.

[billethkid]

I get so tired of this argument. So if all cart drivers were perfect drivers...like you of course...there would be no need for ANY safety features. (I assume that goes for our streets and highways too.)

Yeah, right.

NOBODY said anything about perfect. Nor did I state my capability, thank you.

The driving habits has not been presented as an argument....just a fact of driving in TV!

Let's try to keep it simple. Go back to the example of the little white poles at the exit/entrances to the MMPs. Why is it you think they are ROUTINELY hit, knocked down and literally torn out of there spot? They are routinely replaced several times per year as a result.

They are painted bright white. They have reflective tape on them. They have been increased in size. They are still hit with no less frequency.
One certainly need not be a perfect driver to not hit them.....just responsible!

Simply changing how folks drive into and or out of these entrances and exits will eliminate the destruction of the white poles. Now this is where a yeah right is warranted!

[Polar Bear]

...Why is it you think they are ROUTINELY hit, knocked down and literally torn out of there spot?...

Now who's putting words in somebody's mouth? Read everything I've posted. You won't find it.

Do I think the posts are a terrible comparison to possible road edge visibility problems? You bet I do. But you won't find anywhere that I said the posts are routinely knocked down.

[billethkid]

Now who's putting words in somebody's mouth? Read everything I've posted. You won't find it.

Do I think the posts are a terrible comparison to possible road edge visibility problems? You bet I do. But you won't find anywhere that I said the posts are routinely knocked down.

My post was not intended to imply you stated that at all. It was a conversational question about why do you, anybody think the posts are being routinely knocked down.
The answer ro which plays to my reference to the problem is the drivers.
In my humble opinion the same problem that plagues the MMP level of safety (or not).

[Polar Bear]

My post was not intended to imply you stated that at all. It was a conversational question about why do you, anybody think the posts are being routinely knocked down.
The answer ro which plays to my reference to the problem is the drivers.
In my humble opinion the same problem that plagues the MMP level of safety (or not).

Fair enough. I see now how you intended your reply.

I would say just do to the location of the posts it takes a very minor error to hit one. Yes...I have hit one. [emoji12]

[outlaw]

Fair enough. I see now how you intended your reply.

I would say just do to the location of the posts it takes a very minor error to hit one. Yes...I have hit one.

What's so difficult to understand; you drive to the right of the post? It's actually even simpler than navigating a TV RB.

[Polar Bear]

What's so difficult to understand; you drive to the right of the post? It's actually even simpler than navigating a TV RB.

Didn't say it was difficult to understand.

But there it is, a physical obstacle right in the middle of the path. Right at the end of the sharpest bends the path has to offer, before crossing a street, where our attention is...as it should be...focused on cross-traffic.

A slight mis-alignments everywhere else means your wheel goes over a stripe or a curve or some grass, or hits a reflector or other similar harmless event. But you get off course even a little at a post...boom...dented or knocked down post.

I'm not dismissing it. Shouldn't happen. But occasionally it does and imho it's not on its own a cause for calling the culprit a bad driver.

[Barefoot]

A slight mis-alignments everywhere else means your wheel goes over a stripe or a curve or some grass, or hits a reflector or other similar harmless event. But you get off course even a little at a post...boom...dented or knocked down post. I'm not dismissing it. Shouldn't happen. But occasionally it does and imho it's not on its own a cause for calling the culprit a bad driver.
Perhaps not a bad driver. But inattentive.
Please, if you're unfamiliar with an area, slow down, pay attention, and don't be talking on your cell phone!

[angiefox10]

Lighting the MMPs with downward projecting lights would enhance safety at night and during rain storms, and provide nice aesthetics. I think this would be a wonderful enhancement to TV. This could be in lieu of striping, which many think is ugly.

I've thought that several times on nights when it's been raining and I've had to drive home. Also as you stated, it would be beautiful as well.

Even if they didn't do it on all he paths, there are some that could benefit.

Or as some suggested, put something reflective in the center of the path where it could get tough. We have reflectors on some of our paths south of 466A.

I appreciate that you are trying to think of a solution. It's a start!

Most problems are solved with a start.

I've noticed when anyone mentions the cost of something, people tend to forget, that cost is spread out among the population and really not a lot for one family.

But at the end of the day, what anyone has to say on this forum, really doesn't have anything to do with what will actually happen in The Villages.

Thank you for your post.

[PennBF]

What's wrong with each taking responsibility for their own safety and installing lights on their carts which reflect against the curbs and light up the lanes. These are small lights that wrap around most of the front of the cart and on the sides. If you tend to drive at night or in the rain then you should have the lights.
Regarding walkers..How many walkers actually walk in the rain or at night. Again if you tend to walk at these time then put on well lit clothing and you will be safe. Same with bikers. :ho:

[billethkid]

I am a regular, daily walker of the MMP and I always walkfacing the traffic and wear a bikers red flasher........it does have a noteable effect on oncoming traffic and especially in the tunnels.