Why do so many restaurants fail in The Villages?

[jtdraig]

There seems to be an abnormally high failure rate of restaurants here in The Villages. Why is that? Could it be the high cost of renting space? Every restaurant has it's high moments and low..just read the posts. We have everything in here from high compliments to a savaging of the food, management, and anything else in the crossairs. All this said, there is a higher failure rate in here than I would have expected even in a seasonal area and in these economic times.

[Best Mom]

Count the number of empty store fronts. I have a good friend who runs a business in the Villages. She could write a book....but she is under contact to be quiet!
We have the residents, look at the number of homes in The Villages in a small area. We a a fairly big city. Many business has come....many have closed.

PR and reality are often two different things.

[inda50]

I am also wondering, we have the population, mobility is easy, the prices are fair, food is good, is it rent, unableto get employees,what????

[jadebox]

Competition!!!! The ones with consistantly good food and service will survive. Bourbon Street will be the next to go OR maybe Terra Del Sol. I like Terra but it is out of the way. There are probably many people who have no idea where it is.

[Best Mom]

In answer to inda50
Rent plus a percentage of sales!

[inda50]

Percentage of sales? didn't know that. I'm asuming the developer gets the%. But it seem to me a small percentage is better than an empy store ith on % and no rent. I have to assume he is smater than that????

[SteveZ]

Percentage of sales? didn't know that. I'm asuming the developer gets the%. But it seem to me a small percentage is better than an empy store ith on % and no rent. I have to assume he is smater than that????

The same landlord situation (and rent/percentage plan) occurs at shopping malls. Restaurants run on a very tight margin, and it doesn't take much for a restaurant without reserve capital to cover the leaner months to get squeezed tighter than it can afford.

[Niels]

The Villages, Florida

I don�t know what the failure rate in The Villages is but I do know that the restaurant business is a very tough business. Most restaurants in general fail in the first year of operation.

[Indy-Guy]

The Villages, Florida

We went to Giovannis in Southern Trace Plaza on Wednesday night. Got there at 5:00 and I think we got the last available table. Food and service was great. Not hard to see why they are busy and Dominics closed. Food and service is the difference of night and day. The couple that were with us said that the gal working the carry out phone was taking orders from the time we got there till we left. When we left there were about 20 people waiting for a table.

I wish they would open where Dominics was they would do great there. They are probably very happy where they are they just need more room.

Good food and service will make it more times than not.

[swrinfla]

The Villages, Florida

The story I hear time and time again is that The Developer (read that as you will) takes not only a very high rental/lease fee but also an "exorbitant" percentage of sales. So many of the eateries that I've seen shut down over the past 3-1/2 years have fallen way short in their abilities to garner customer satisfaction and repeat business.

I know that the restaurant industry is mind-bogglingly rough. Every penny spent must be recouped, and then some, or else you'll founder and drown quickly. Too many cannot cope. From all I have heard, places like Whiskey Creek never got off the ground properly, and Dominics has, for some time, had a marginal reputation among many of my acquaintances.

It's once again a matter of knowing how to run a business!

SWR

[thegreenerside]

My understanding from the leasee of two of the country club restaraunts is that they are not only paying high rent, but also have to donate $5000 per employee that has a child attending the charter school. At the time I spoke with him he had to pay The Villages $60,000 as he had 12 employees that attended the charter schools. It was strongly recommended by the lessor that the donations be made by each leasee on TV property. If you had to donate that amount of money each year then your profits could easily disappear, thus causing you to go out of business after a year or two here in TV

[gemorc]

The Villages, Florida.
It seems to me that the developer would hate to see all the empty storefronts in TV. Any visitor really looking for a new place to call home, might just wonder what is wrong in paradice.

[schwarz]

as a restaurant manager I can easily tell you why many fail. Poor management, poor service and not good value. Look at Oakwood, lines every day...why? Great food, great prices and excellent and fast service...they run lines year round. Villagers know where the value is.

[blueeagle65]

I agree that the major cause has got to be with the management. Case in point, The Dairy Queen on 466. It was always busy and the food was - well, DQ food. I, however, failed to see an adult around that was in charge - just a flock of young people seemingly not overly concerned about what was happening. You'd thaink that I would have seen an adult every once in a while in there, but if they were in the building I sure missed them. :dontknow:

[tkret]

I agree that the major cause has got to be with the management. Case in point, The Dairy Queen on 466. It was always busy and the food was - well, DQ food. I, however, failed to see an adult around that was in charge - just a flock of young people seemingly not overly concerned about what was happening. You'd thaink that I would have seen an adult every once in a while in there, but if they were in the building I sure missed them. :dontknow:


This has ALWAYS amazed me about places like DQ and Cold Stone. I mean how can someone, who has invested perhaps ALL of their life's savings into this venture, leave it in the hands of teenagers. I know a fellow who is an aircraft mechanic and purchased a Cold Stone. He works for the airline and as much overtime as he can while youngsters run his business (investment?). It appears that in many cases the profit margin is so low that the owner(s) often have to have another source of income that also includes health benefits for the family.

[judylou]

It boggles my mind that owners of businesses just hire teens to run their stores. These kids aren't the least bit interested in the business. They just want a few dollars. I work with a bunch of kids and if they don't feel like coming to work they just call off. I realize they are cheap labor but what you pay for is what you get. They do all kinds of things that I really don't think most adults would do, like instead of washing all the expensive stainless steel utensils they just throw them in the garbage. I would fire them on the spot. Some days I say if I was the boss, I would be running this place by myself, I'd fire every last one of them.
The owners of the businesses in the villages need to know that the Villagers are old, but not stupid. They worked all their life to get that retirement and they are not going to throw it away at a place with bad food and bad service. Only the strong can survive in this bad economical times we live in.

[Puterguru]

as a restaurant manager I can easily tell you why many fail. Poor management, poor service and not good value. Look at Oakwood, lines every day...why? Great food, great prices and excellent and fast service...they run lines year round. Villagers know where the value is.

Exactly!
There are plenty of restaurants that are always busy and plenty of them that are not. It simply has to do with consistent food and good management.

I get tired of hearing people say "It's the developer, high rent, blah blah blah"

[inda50]

One of the reason that businesses in the villages should not be going out is the low cost of labor. Perhaps they are not trained properly or selected properly, but there can be no doubt that there is plenty of labor to choose from. how they are trained is a different matter.

When times are good almost any reasonable business can make out, but when costs of doing business goes up the business owner must adjust his cost vs selling price vs propensity of consumer to buy. After all the customer is also thinking about his abilty to afford the purchase.

Who shares the belt tightening??? I guess not the developer.

[PlanetSmoothie]

Hello Villagers-

I am the current owner of the Planet Smoothie located in Lady Lake across from Home Depot. I read talk of the villages all the time to see what is going on and read what residents are saying about local restaurants. Residents give so much feeback on this site that I am amazed more managers from restaurants are not on here and part of the discussion. I am in no way trying to solicite or advertise for free, I just to be apart of this forum as a business owner.
I have been in my location for over a year now and I would say that 15% of my customers are village residents. The rest are those that work in the area. I have advertised and advertised and I feel the product is phenomenal! I work in my store Mon-Fri and some weekends. I do have teenagers that work for me as well however they do not run my store as in some cases in the area. My rent is average however it is very frustrating to get in and out of my plaza. I wonder everyday what I am doing wrong due to slow sales and lack of customers that live in the villages. :dontknow:
I have a second location in Volushia County that is very successful! Help villagers, your feedback means the world to me!

[villages07]

Smoothie,

Probably the biggest factor is that you are not golf cart accessible. However, as the new shopping center continues to fill out and get busier, hopefully this will improve your business.

Kudos to you for reading this forum to understand the pulse of the community and what makes us happy and what makes us angry. That's very business-savvy of you.

I'm not that much of a smoothie drinker but I have heard good things about your products...also, doing sandwiches now if I recall correctly?

Good luck in building your business.

[wlou]

My take on the empty restaurants, etc..As a former business owner in a service related business here in VA ( for 20 years) and a business coach...Service,service,service...Our home in TV is closer to LSL, and I can tell ya, if you go to the Italian place there, the food is OK..( not great, but good) however, the service is SO bad, we just quit going...It is not that hard to serve customers,,but when you act as if the customers are interrupting YOUR evening, then we wont come back. At least pretend like you are happy we are there and supporting your paycheck, maybe, just maybe we will try it again..Look at Bone fish Grill..Always a line, always busy and we still keep going even if it is a 40 min golf cart ride. The service and the food is excellent...If anyone wanted to be sucessful in TV, they could. They only need to be accessible by golf cart, good servers and quality food..hey, I think it would be great if a pool of villagers opened a restaurant..If everyone had a small share in it and took turns working, I would be willing to bet it would be a huge success!!

[NJblue]

PlanetSmoothie,

I hope you are still around when we move down there. I have a Planet Smoothie close to where I work and I go there for lunch quite frequently - love the Chocolate Elvis!

Based on your current location, I can say that I would schedule my visits to Home Depot around lunch time so that I could grab lunch as part of my Home Depot run. Thinking along those lines, perhaps you could make a joint arrangement with the manager at Home Depot. Perhaps they would let you put a sign in their entrance advertising your business and offering a 10% discount to anyone that shows a Home Depot receipt from the current day. That way, you would benefit from some of the Home Depot traffic and eventually build a loyal following who will come even if they don't have to go to Home Depot for something. Home Depot would benefit because there would be an added incentive to come to them versus Lowes or other competitors.

Another thing that our local Planet Smoothie offers which you may or may not already be trying is a punch card where you get a free small Smoothie for every 10 Smoothies that you buy.

They also have some advertisements from nearby small businesses by their entrance. My guess is that if I were to go to these other businesses, that I would see advertisements for Planet Smoothie there as a reciprocal advertising agreement.

Hang in there. I'll need my Chocolate Elvis fix when we get down there.

[redwitch]

I do think your problem is location. You're just not convenient unless someone is going to Radio Shack or Verizon, sorry. Going to Home Depot and then having to cross 441, turn left, turn right, park and then either risk car to turn left to get down to 466 or 466A or wait forever at a light to turn left to go back on 441 just isn't something I'm willing to do for a drink or sandwich.

I have stopped in and gotten smoothies twice. Both times it was only teenagers working. The service was okay, not great and nothing to write home about, but nothing bad, either. Being a California brat, I have a great affinity towards smoothies. They've always been a favorite treat. While Planet Smoothie isn't at the top of my list, it isn't bad.

So, I would guess the problem has to be location.

[blueeagle65]

There was a smoothie shop of some sort once upon a time in one of the out parcels at the Southern Trace shopping plaza. The location was OK - had golf cart access - close to Publix, but it has been gone for quite a while. The few times were were there it was staffed by a couple teen girls - still no adults around. They also had some strange concoctions that I wouldn't have consumed even if they were giving them away, but I'm a fan of fruits and not powdered nutrients and additives, etc.

[PlanetSmoothie]

I appreciate all of the feedback!

NJBlue: We do offer buy 9 get one free cards! I plan on being here for as long as I can afford to be here, can't wait to meet you- the Chocolate Elvis is a great choice :) The Home Depot is a great idea in regards to the receipt, I will look into that. I have approached them in regards to standing at the front door with little response.

I understand we are not golf cart accessable, and this is a huge factor./ Unfortunately it is not in my control :( I am very much looking forward to the new plaza opening more stores and becoming busier....

As I said I do have teenagers working in the store, however they work late afternoons and weekends only. I open the store mon-fri and work all through lunch. There are things outside of the store that must be handled so I cannot be there from open to close. The 3 employees I do have have been with me since we opened last April, so I have been fortunate in very little turn around.

Redwitch: I apologize you had an "ok" visit. Come see me and I will make sure your next smoothie is fantastic and compliments of me!

blueeagle65: The smoothie place you are thinking of is Smoothie King. They are known for using more syrups rather then real fruit. We use all real fruit: strawberries, mangos, peaches, banana, raspberries, blueberries and pineapple. No syrups! :) :) :#1: :#1:

[PlanetSmoothie]

oh... and yes we are now a Planet Smoothie Cafe so we offer sandwiches, wraps and salads!!! :bigthumbsup:

[jtdraig]

The thoughts coming through this thread are pretty consistent with discussions I have had with restaurant managers or experienced employees around the Villages. A good kitchen staff, good service, and evidence of caring for your customer is pretty much a given. Within the Villages, this gets magnified mostly because we are a demanding bunch who communicates widely with each other. A restaurant opening "within the Compound" had better have a trained staff, reliable kitchen, and overkill on service the first few weeks or you are pretty much doomed (Whiskey Creek/Copper Pot/Main St Bistro/Juan's Mexicali). If you have been here, started well, you need to maintain that level or you,re doomed (Dominic's). Restaurants outside of the compound like Bone Fish Grlll and Longhorn did it right. They aren't burdened by high rents and percentage fees that you have within the Villages itself and they have their service and food quality thing down pat (Giovanni's). Golf cart access is always best but Longhorn is doing well without it. You can almost always go into a restaurant around here and get a feeling if it will last or not. Villages restaurant managers don't always know about the websites (this one and the Villages Gourmet Club) which they should monitor. I just find it all very interesting.

[marantho]

Went into Amigos on Sunday at 5pm, empty(except for two people at the bar) and no one at the reception desk, either. Walked past Big City Grill(next to Katy Belles)same thing, the place was empty. Thought this odd at dinner time on a Sunday. Does anyone know if Amigos has stopped serving food?

We went to TooJays and that is always dependable!!!

marantho

[GMONEY]

Alot of them do close, look at DQ,,Bono's,,Whiskey Creek, and on and on. Then there are the ones that make a killing. Giovani's (spelling) is always packed, Beefs at Southern Trace is packed. I think it is the atmosphere, location and service. The gent that owns Beefs kills me in there. He is non stop and the food is good. He always talks to people and has a good time. Some places get to how do you say, young and dont care attitude. It is all about Service and Quality.
Have you ever watched Chef Gordon on Hells Kitchen. You can see how a restaurant should run. Like Guy F. that has that show on Food Channel, Heck if he was your Chef and ran the joint, it would make a killing. You have got to work it as they say.

[texasfal]

We ate at Amigos Saturday for lunch. No one was in the resturant and the bartender had to come out to seat us on the patio. Weird. On the plus side, the food was excellent.

[SABRMnLgs]

Normally, I don't speak badly about a restaurant until I've eaten there at least two or three times and each time was nasty. But Big City Grill is an exception. We went there fully expecting a meal such as my wife (Long Island) got in New York City. The guy that runs this place mut have gotten the name out of a book.
I have eaten at many places in my life but have never been told, "We take no cards, only money". Hmmmm been nice if they had told us that in the paper or at least a note on the door. Also, the steep prices you pay for a lousy hot dog or the like, you think they could at least afford some kind of plates.
A dog or burger on the boardwalk served in a piece of paper I could see but not in a sit-down restaurant. They can keep their cab and other "nuances". Once was enough for us.

[villages3412]

I read a lot of comments about the rent and fees at sumter landing.

Who pays for the clean-up and services to maintain the areas around the town center. Sumter county or included in rent. Not part of rent elseware.

Who pays for entertainment. Fees?????

I never hear anypeople talk about cost of entertainment etc.

[Bogie Shooter]

I read a lot of comments about the rent and fees at sumter landing.

Who pays for the clean-up and services to maintain the areas around the town center. Sumter county or included in rent. Not part of rent elseware.

Who pays for entertainment. Fees?????

I never hear anypeople talk about cost of entertainment etc.

Do a search of entertainment fees.....there is plenty of talk for you to review.

[BBQMan]

Every place is affected. It is the slow down in the economy. Take a drive up to Ocala and turn right off I-75. Restaurant after restaurant is closed. The ones that do well are the ones that are well-managed and provide a product the customers want.

[Barefoot]

Normally, I don't speak badly about a restaurant until I've eaten there at least two or three times and each time was nasty. But Big City Grill is an exception. We went there fully expecting a meal such as my wife (Long Island) got in New York City. The guy that runs this place mut have gotten the name out of a book.
I have eaten at many places in my life but have never been told, "We take no cards, only money". Hmmmm been nice if they had told us that in the paper or at least a note on the door. Also, the steep prices you pay for a lousy hot dog or the like, you think they could at least afford some kind of plates.
A dog or burger on the boardwalk served in a piece of paper I could see but not in a sit-down restaurant. They can keep their cab and other "nuances". Once was enough for us.

We went there once and don't plan to return. We were very disappointed. Some people seem to love it, but it sure didn't appeal to us.

[Mallory]

He's from Berwyn. What do you expect?

If you're from Chicagoland, there are many restaurants like that around the city and collar counties. It's not Portillo's by any stretch, but if you need an Italian Beef fix it's the best place around.

[Vichyssoise]

Normally, I don't speak badly about a restaurant until I've eaten there at least two or three times and each time was nasty. But Big City Grill is an exception. We went there fully expecting a meal such as my wife (Long Island) got in New York City. The guy that runs this place mut have gotten the name out of a book.
I have eaten at many places in my life but have never been told, "We take no cards, only money". Hmmmm been nice if they had told us that in the paper or at least a note on the door. Also, the steep prices you pay for a lousy hot dog or the like, you think they could at least afford some kind of plates.
A dog or burger on the boardwalk served in a piece of paper I could see but not in a sit-down restaurant. They can keep their cab and other "nuances". Once was enough for us.
We haven't been to Big City Grill, and now for sure we won't! Wasn't that the place that had full page story in The Daily Sun, right down to a picture of the mascot taxi? I like the idea of cash only. Wish I had a cash business... I would have bought in Bridgeport. Thanks for the info

[marantho]

Has anyone heard that de-Lites may be closing down...bad economic times and cold weather has slowed business and now, the Villages is raising the rent!!! Great timing!!!

I hope this is just a viscious rumor...but just in case, everybody should go over and have a nice ice cream...love this place, don't want to see it go!!!

marantho

[Muncle]

Has anyone heard that de-Lites may be closing down...bad economic times and cold weather has slowed business and now, the Villages is raising the rent!!! Great timing!!!

I hope this is just a viscious rumor...but just in case, everybody should go over and have a nice ice cream...love this place, don't want to see it go!!!

marantho

Cold weather??????????

Sounds like an excuse for poor business plan, poor execution, or just other mistakes.

[marantho]

Muncie,

Have you ever been there? These people are also running a store in Inverness and they are not having troubles there. If the story is true, their rising rent is a big part of the problem...just a thought.

[Bogie Shooter]

Where is De-lites?

[Muncle]

Muncie,

Have you ever been there? These people are also running a store in Inverness and they are not having troubles there. If the story is true, their rising rent is a big part of the problem...just a thought.

Fine -- there could be a lot of reasons for potential failure, but the weather??? This has been a very mild and dry winter (don't look outside today!) and last summer/fall wasn't bad at all.

Have no idea what rent or % they pay, but I've never been impressed by that location. The coffee shop seemed to do okay but I can't help but think that an ice cream parlor (or over-priced bakery) would do far better well to the east of that location. Maybe in time, but not now.

[Living the Life]

Has anyone heard that de-Lites may be closing down...bad economic times and cold weather has slowed business and now, the Villages is raising the rent!!! Great timing!!!

I hope this is just a viscious rumor...but just in case, everybody should go over and have a nice ice cream...love this place, don't want to see it go!!!

marantho

Rent does not get randomly raised on commercial properties. Commercial leases are normally 5 years in duration and all cost components are defined in the lease at the time of execution. If rent goes up year after year, that would have been a pre-negotiated term in the lease.

[GatbTester]

Longevity has much to do with knowing how to run a business; however when the developer takes such a huge cut right off your bottom line every month, perhaps the knowledge that one needs is when to NOT sign a contract. True many businesses fail in the first year, but giving back some 8-9% each month is ridiculous as well. Knowing where to open one's store has more to do with future success than anything else. The developer's greed has caused many a business to go down the drain.

[diskman]

Longevity has much to do with knowing how to run a business; however when the developer takes such a huge cut right off your bottom line every month, perhaps the knowledge that one needs is when to NOT sign a contract. True many businesses fail in the first year, but giving back some 8-9% each month is ridiculous as well. Knowing where to open one's store has more to do with future success than anything else. The developer's greed has caused many a business to go down the drain.

The developers are well aware of what it takes to make a go of it in TV, considering seasonality etc. etc. etc. It would be to their benefit for stores to make it rather than a slew of empty stores and failures. I think it has to be the quality of the product and the service and websites like this which spread the word of unhappiness really fast.barf :shrug:

[Muncle]

Longevity has much to do with knowing how to run a business; however when the developer takes such a huge cut right off your bottom line every month, perhaps the knowledge that one needs is when to NOT sign a contract. True many businesses fail in the first year, but giving back some 8-9% each month is ridiculous as well. Knowing where to open one's store has more to do with future success than anything else. The developer's greed has caused many a business to go down the drain.

It's not like TV is the only company that take a significant % of a tenant's business. It's very common. In KC, JC Nichols, the owner/developer of the Country Club Plaza and many other facilities, has been doing it for years. I would certainly think Disney does it and wouldn't be surprised if the Atlanta Underground, Detroit Ren Center, and other such facilities had similar arrangements. Many of these place kick out under-performing stores.

[diskman]

It's not like TV is the only company that take a significant % of a tenant's business. It's very common. In KC, JC Nichols, the owner/developer of the Country Club Plaza and many other facilities, has been doing it for years. I would certainly think Disney does it and wouldn't be surprised if the Atlanta Underground, Detroit Ren Center, and other such facilities had similar arrangements. Many of these place kick out under-performing stores.
from what i have been reading i think Morse family probably gouging comercial tenants

[Living the Life]

Longevity has much to do with knowing how to run a business; however when the developer takes such a huge cut right off your bottom line every month, perhaps the knowledge that one needs is when to NOT sign a contract. True many businesses fail in the first year, but giving back some 8-9% each month is ridiculous as well. Knowing where to open one's store has more to do with future success than anything else. The developer's greed has caused many a business to go down the drain.

It appears that many here make comments about "the developers cut" without knowing facts about retail leases or how they are put together. To be clear, I am not a Villages employee....but always assuming that the Villages takes a cut and that is the reason for failures is absurd. Most commercial retail leases have clauses for a percent of sales over a certain revenue figure...but not from dollar one. Most business people would be happy to write a check if they had achieved the level of revenue required for the percent to be paid. If someone has a lease to pay a percentage at dollar one, it is probably due to a negotiated fixed amount per month...plus the percentage. As Donald Trump said it's all in the art of the deal finding the terms that will provide a happy balance between the person signing the lease and the developer providing the lease.

[Bogie Shooter]

from what i have been reading i think Morse family probably gouging comercial tenants
Are you reading the TOTV? Does anyone really know the real story, that is posting on this thread?

[aln]

Why is the title of the thread "why do so many restaurants FAIL...".
Actually, we should consider why so many are successful.....
TooJays, McCalls, Pauly's (3 locations now), Bravo, Subway, J Rockets, Thai Ruby, The Tea Plantation, Beef O'brady's, Starbucks, Marguerita Republic, Bourbon St, Panera, Ruby Tuesday, RJ Gators, Vk Japanese Steakhouse, Mo's, Outback, Carrabas', ChickFilet, Seafood Galley, Sonrise, The Village Eatery, Crispers, SteaknShake and on and on (sorry for those I missed).
With all the successes, there's probably a valid reason for failing other than rent. IMHO

[GatbTester]

I have to agree that having a less than stellar business plan, hiring young kids to work all types of hours, and expecting a great living to come to their doors because of their location has been the downfall of many businesses here in The Villages. Many business owners either rush into a storefront representing a product or service that may be a difficult sell to our senior citizens. I believe that more study is needed by perspective retailers of the perils they may face as well as is there product or service "good." Take for example the quick demise of "Whiskey Creek," "The Copper Pot," and the "Old Time Bakery."

[jtdraig]

You make good points and the characteristics of the successful restaurants that seem to have staying power would make a good overview for future success. However, too many really have failed and struggled over the past four years. So, it is worth trying to see what makes a success and what causes failure. I would submit that the business environment and certainly the rapid judgment spread on line does a lot to make or break a restaurant fairly or not. Restaurants opening here have to do their due diligence and they should be assisted by the Leasing Agents. Closed storefronts that continue to remain so don't do much good and become a drag on the reputation of the Town Squares. Everyone comes in here with a deal on rent and other charges so it's a level playing field (perhaps). The difference in what makes a restaurant a success is in their menu selections, prices, kitchen management, service management, and prompt resolution of complaints. If a restaurant has this together at opening, they most likely have a chance. If they do not, they have a greater chance of failure and inability to recover from a mistake. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium.

[mountainlegacyhomes]

They fail due to GREED, the high rents required by the Villages, which far exceed the national average, along with a required % of their sales, kill all the businesses. Prices reflect those issues, and in turn, with such high prices, they fail. Previous owner of 3 restaurats in the Altanta market, I can assure you with such demands from the landlord, failure will always be the outcome. Until this changes within the Village Managment we are going to continue to see them come and go, sad I think!

[OutsiderWithInterest]

.

[chuckinca]

Lousy food

[SABRMnLgs]

I have never been a business owner so perhaps I am speaking out of a cocked hat, but I have been reading a lot of posts that blame "rent" (yeah, a 4 letter word) as one of the reasons a business closes.
Again having no idea about a business, may I offer this suggestion. Build your own place. You pay only for the land and construction. Then the place is yours, lock stock and soda fountain.
I have read where a number of doctors offices were built by them and their partners. They answer to no one except possibly their partners.
How bout this. 5-6 business owners get together and purchase a parcel of land. Say that piece of property on 466 by the Fresh Market place. They pool their money, buy the property and build on it to suit themselves. They bought it, they own it, they build it. Nothing to answer for from the Villages as the property is now their's do with whatever (as long as they are in state code).
There would be a large initial outlay of monies, yes, but no rent and no one with their hand out looking for a "deal" on rent. Eventually, it would pay for itself if the business were run properly. Or am I being too logical and simple?

[oldguy]

I had a chili dog there, lots of chili, onions and cheddar cheese, set me back a whole @$2.40. A good all beef hot dog. I dont think that is a high price for a dog. Also, I dont use my credit card for a 2 dollar purchase. I think you just want travel miles, that is your complaint.

[oldguy]

I eat there all the time, and $2.40 for a chili dog is a great deal. I pay cash for 2 dollar purchases, and burger king serves their food on a paper, what is the problem? Its a fast food place, do you understand that. But they have great food. Even my wife likes the place. That is really something!!!!! Please dont ever go to Big City Grill. I dont want to hear you or your complaining wife ruin ours and others good eating experience!!

[zcaveman]

I had a chili dog there, lots of chili, onions and cheddar cheese, set me back a whole @$2.40. A good all beef hot dog. I dont think that is a high price for a dog. Also, I dont use my credit card for a 2 dollar purchase. I think you just want travel miles, that is your complaint.

Where is there??

[katezbox]

I have never been a business owner so perhaps I am speaking out of a cocked hat, but I have been reading a lot of posts that blame "rent" (yeah, a 4 letter word) as one of the reasons a business closes.
Again having no idea about a business, may I offer this suggestion. Build your own place. You pay only for the land and construction. Then the place is yours, lock stock and soda fountain.
I have read where a number of doctors offices were built by them and their partners. They answer to no one except possibly their partners.
How bout this. 5-6 business owners get together and purchase a parcel of land. Say that piece of property on 466 by the Fresh Market place. They pool their money, buy the property and build on it to suit themselves. They bought it, they own it, they build it. Nothing to answer for from the Villages as the property is now their's do with whatever (as long as they are in state code).
There would be a large initial outlay of monies, yes, but no rent and no one with their hand out looking for a "deal" on rent. Eventually, it would pay for itself if the business were run properly. Or am I being too logical and simple?

SABR,

You are being logical - but, yes, also a bit oversimplified. Yes, the landlord makes a profit on properties rented. But he (sorry business gals) also assumes liability for property damages and risks. Some of this can be passed on to the tenant, but...

The main issue is the old time value of money. Let's assume you and 4 colleagues have $500,000 to buy a parcel of land to build a store/restaurant. By investing in the business, you lose the opportunity of investing it elsewhere. If you have to borrow the money, that may cost as much over time as rent. And you have the risk/liability.... And only part of your cash outlay is deductible for taxes.... And you have to hire someone to manage the property...

Most of the chains and big box stores lease rather than buy. Why? For the reasons I outlined above plus leasing gives them the ability to walk away from a non-profitable location and they are in the retail/food service business, not the real estate business.

Personally, I would like to see TV offer some discounted rates at their properties on the squares. NOT because I think the developer OWES it to us (I DON'T), but because I think it is good business sense. Having so many stores vacant is an eyesore, it detracts buyers and some revenue is better than none.

k

[Muncle]

SABR,

You are being logical - but, yes, also a bit oversimplified. Yes, the landlord makes a profit on properties rented. But he (sorry business gals) also assumes liability for property damages and risks. Some of this can be passed on to the tenant, but...

The main issue is the old time value of money. Let's assume you and 4 colleagues have $500,000 to buy a parcel of land to build a store/restaurant. By investing in the business, you lose the opportunity of investing it elsewhere. If you have to borrow the money, that may cost as much over time as rent. And you have the risk/liability.... And only part of your cash outlay is deductible for taxes.... And you have to hire someone to manage the property...

Most of the chains and big box stores lease rather than buy. Why? For the reasons I outlined above plus leasing gives them the ability to walk away from a non-profitable location and they are in the retail/food service business, not the real estate business.

Personally, I would like to see TV offer some discounted rates at their properties on the squares. NOT because I think the developer OWES it to us (I DON'T), but because I think it is good business sense. Having so many stores vacant is an eyesore, it detracts buyers and some revenue is better than none.

k


Darn you, Kate. Here you are bringing sense and economic reality into a discussion where emotion and financial ***** (pen*s) envy of the developer are primary motivators. Will you never learn?

Re your last point, I really like it. I believe that appearance of prosperity is critical to the success of such places as the squares. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some of the smaller boutiques were already getting some break. Also, areas like Colony should be getting some rent/percentage breaks until construction across 466A picks up. May already be happening.

Seemingly, the major issue for TV businesses is in-season/off-season. Two apparent solutions seem to be different rents/percentages for different seasons or better business management so new owners don't confuse February profits with July projections.

But I could be wrong.



`

[JeanneBeannie]

OldGuy....I am sorry if I missed it in the earlier posts, but chili dogs are my absolute favorite in the world!!!! :icon_hungry: I will be there next month, what is the name of the place with these yummy chili dogs please? :bowdown:
Thank you!! :beer3:

[oldguy]

You can get a good chili dog at Big City Grill at spanish springs is my favorite, all beef hot dog, chili, onions, and cheddar cheese..$2.40. ad fries and a coke for 2.25 more
fills me up, and taste "Yummy!!!!!" and a great deal too! Even my wife likes the place.

[marianne237]

Do hope big City Grill reopens on 466. You're right about the chili dogs!

[JeanneBeannie]

You can get a good chili dog at Big City Grill at spanish springs is my favorite, all beef hot dog, chili, onions, and cheddar cheese..$2.40. ad fries and a coke for 2.25 more
fills me up, and taste "Yummy!!!!!" and a great deal too! Even my wife likes the place.

Thank you OldGuy :mademyday:
Its going to be hard to wait a month for this chili dog, but sounds like it will be well worth the wait! :icon_hungry:
Hope to see you and your wife there too! :beer3:

[katezbox]

Darn you, Kate. Here you are bringing sense and economic reality into a discussion where emotion and financial ***** (pen*s) envy of the developer are primary motivators. Will you never learn?

Re your last point, I really like it. I believe that appearance of prosperity is critical to the success of such places as the squares. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some of the smaller boutiques were already getting some break. Also, areas like Colony should be getting some rent/percentage breaks until construction across 466A picks up. May already be happening.

Seemingly, the major issue for TV businesses is in-season/off-season. Two apparent solutions seem to be different rents/percentages for different seasons or better business management so new owners don't confuse February profits with July projections.

But I could be wrong.



`

Munc,

You make me blush.... but I agree - maybe the % of the take needs tio be only in certain months to help folks get past the summer days. Anthing to keep those shops/restaurants occupied.

PS - Red Sauce seems to have found success with karaoke....

[donsimson]

There are only three reasons a restaurant or any business will fail.
1-Poor Service 2-Poor product 3-Poor management. Just look at Margarita Republic and Toojays. They are thriving and the businees across the stree fail. It can't be Rent or %. They are paying the same thing as the failed ones. Go back to reasons 1,2, & 3.

[Living the Life]

They fail due to GREED, the high rents required by the Villages, which far exceed the national average, along with a required % of their sales, kill all the businesses. Prices reflect those issues, and in turn, with such high prices, they fail. Previous owner of 3 restaurats in the Altanta market, I can assure you with such demands from the landlord, failure will always be the outcome. Until this changes within the Village Managment we are going to continue to see them come and go, sad I think!

The rents are very fair and comparable to similar quality locations. Shame on businesses that don't have a business plan and understand their balance sheet. They know the rent going in to the deal.

As far as % of sales, this is a very common practice for commercial leased properties. It getting kind of old to hear over and over that businesses fail because of rent and the developer. Businesses fail because of poor service, poor management, poor product or a combination of the above.

[oldguy]

oh, boy, sabrmnlgs, $2.25 for a hot dog is steep to you. You say normally you dont put a restaurant down on one visit, but you had to make an exception, I dont believe it for a second. They take my credit cards, maybe yours is over limit. Me and my wife can eat there for less then $10. I know that is very steep for you, being over on your credit cards. I think you should just go to the Christian Food Pantry, they will help you out. I said in another post, you are part of the 15% of the villagers that made the village change for the worse. just my slant on it.

[sunday]

The rents in The Villages are consistant to the rents in similar domographics, that is a fact. However, the spending habits of the residents are not...nor are the % hurdles set forth by the landlords.
What this means for business owners is, that in order to succeed, you must be prepared to operate with extremely tight margins and win in volume... It's a massive amount of work for a little return.
The up side... The Villages is an excellent proving ground for restauranteurs, in that if you have the dexterity to survive in this market for 5 years with above a 1% net profit margin. You can take the "experience" gained, and operate very lucritively anywhere in the country.