Somebody ponied up some money for the trees

[TheVillageChicken]

Handled through an attorney (http://alturl.com/dnisx)

Someone wrote a check to pay for the trees

[Chi-Town]

Great. A chapter closed.

[janmcn]

A check for over $25,000 showed up today at the district offices to pay for the replanting of trees. It was presented through an attorney who said he represented the "Friends of Lake Miona".

Read all about it at the on-line news.

[Challenger]

Handled through an attorney (http://alturl.com/dnisx)

Someone wrote a check to pay for the trees

Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantely someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.

[Villager Joyce]

Great. A chapter closed.

If only!! AND Another thread has already been started.

[2BNTV]

Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantly someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.

And or, did not want to be prosecuted for the crime committed.

Speculating - "they got tired wondering if the law, was going to find out".

[joldnol]

Illegally cut down trees to improve both view and home value and escape criminal charges, 25k is pretty cheap for that person.

[Polar Bear]

Finally there will be no more posts related to the trees being cut down!! :1rotfl:

[manaboutown]

The malfeasor(s) are getting off with a deal that is (another) steal! Looks like they took an offer they could not refuse.

[Cedwards38]

So this "donation" was from the Friends of Lake Miona and not from any guilty party? Is the FOLM an organized, incorporated group with more than one objective, and where do they get their funds? Bless them for their generous spirit, but this crime has not been solved, and should be.

[CWGUY]

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer! :ohdear:

[Bogie Shooter]

And the beat goes on.
Why not just copy and paste your posts from the other thread?

[Chi-Town]

So this "donation" was from the Friends of Lake Miona and not from any guilty party? Is the FOLM an organized, incorporated group with more than one objective, and where do they get their funds? Bless them for their generous spirit, but this crime has not been solved, and should be.

Could be a PAC of some sort. Or maybe a Knights Templar type of group.

[joldnol]

if someone doesn't want to read others opinions, you always have the option of NOT reading them by not clicking on the thread but that would make it difficult to troll

[CWGUY]

So this "donation" was from the Friends of Lake Miona and not from any guilty party? Is the FOLM an organized, incorporated group with more than one objective, and where do they get their funds? Bless them for their generous spirit, but this crime has not been solved, and should be.

CDD 5 voted unanimously to waive prosecution if the money is received. :boom:

[CWGUY]

Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantely someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.

In July’s CDD 5 meeting, the “ballpark” cost of remediation thus far was estimated to be about $25,000. :boom:

[Challenger]

In July’s CDD 5 meeting, the “ballpark” cost of remediation thus far was estimated to be about $25,000. :boom:

WHAT about the fine? What about replanting? What about the 5+/- years of monitoring, estimated on another thread to be $2500 per year for about 4 or 5 years. What are the funds meant to remediate?

The offer by CDD 5 is ambiguous and poorly defined. Why does CDD 5 get to speak for several other CDDs who are also on the hook for a proportionate share of these costs.

It looks to me that the kitchen is heating up. Someone has blinked. Maybe more than one.

[Mleeja]

By gosh, we are not giving this up until we get our pound of flesh........

[CWGUY]

By gosh, we are not giving this up until we get our pound of flesh........

IMHO. Some want to hang someone..... but they don't have a tree. :ohdear:

[Mleeja]

IMHO. Some want to hang someone..... but they don't have a tree. :ohdear:

Very good! :bigbow:

[Allegiance]

Don't forget they also have to pay their lawyer who no doubt has run up a lot of billable hours for research etc.

[Walt.]

WHAT about the fine? What about replanting? What about the 5+/- years of monitoring, estimated on another thread to be $2500 per year for about 4 or 5 years. What are the funds meant to remediate?


Just wondering. Why would anyone need to spend $2,500 per year to "monitor" a few growing trees for 5+ years? Sounds like a government project.

[handyman]

Their lawyers' billables hours are not my problem,if they have done an illegal deed,they should pay the whole bill and then answer for their misdeeds,what they did was illegal .Jail time is what the lady
on the square got,what makes this person above the law?

[Barefoot]

And the beat goes on.
Why not just copy and paste your posts from the other thread?
You're funny BS.

IMHO. Some want to hang someone..... but they don't have a tree.
Clever. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[outlaw]

What happened to "it's not about the money, it's about justice blah, blah, blah"? Would running the perps through the town squares after being tarred and feathered suffice?

[Cedwards38]

What happened to "it's not about the money, it's about justice blah, blah, blah"? Would running the perps through the town squares after being tarred and feathered suffice?

We got some money, but we don't have justice. We don't need to tar and feather. How about we just publicly charge these persons in a court of law and subject them to the legally prescribed penalties for the crime they committed, like we do with other persons in society who commit crimes? Clearly there is another standard of justice if you have the money to influence it.

[outlaw]

We got some money, but we don't have justice. We don't need to tar and feather. How about we just publicly charge these persons in a court of law and subject them to the legally prescribed penalties for the crime they committed, like we do with other persons in society who commit crimes? Clearly there is another standard of justice if you have the money to influence it.

Look at it as a form of plea bargaining. The state attorney agreed to not prosecute if the perps ponied up the costs to rectify the damage caused. It happens every day in our judicial system.

[CWGUY]

We got some money, but we don't have justice. We don't need to tar and feather. How about we just publicly charge these persons in a court of law and subject them to the legally prescribed penalties for the crime they committed, like we do with other persons in society who commit crimes? Clearly there is another standard of justice if you have the money to influence it.

Do you remember your post (#83 in another thread) - "Apparently the amnesty offer has not caused the perpetrators to come forward, and why should it! Though I applaud the offer of prosecution amnesty, why should they come forward since it seems we are no closer to solving this crime than we've ever been?"

:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

[Advogado]

I have always thought it likely that the perpetrator(s) were reading, and perhaps participating in, the other thread on this subject. Thus, I am a little suspicious of the posts advocating closing the matter. Bank robbers and other felons (and the tree cutting is a felony) do not get investigations closed by anonymously returning the loot.

[manaboutown]

It seems to me the perp(s) should have been required to make restitution for ALL costs involved as well as make a public apology to avoid doing time for their crime. Their continuing anonymity appears to be quite cowardly IMHO.

[outlaw]

I have always thought it likely that the perpetrator(s) were reading, and perhaps participating in, the other thread on this subject. Thus, I am a little suspicious of the posts advocating closing the matter. Bank robbers and other felons (and the tree cutting is a felony) do not get investigations closed by anonymously returning the loot.

Except in this case I believe that was the deal offered by the authorities.

[manaboutown]

Except in this case I believe that was the deal offered by the authorities.

But how did the authorities come up with this deal? Who was behind the offer? What pressures were brought and by whom to offer such a weak deal?

[Cedwards38]

Do you remember your post (#83 in another thread) - "Apparently the amnesty offer has not caused the perpetrators to come forward, and why should it! Though I applaud the offer of prosecution amnesty, why should they come forward since it seems we are no closer to solving this crime than we've ever been?"

:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

Sure do. Who came forward?

[TVMayor]

This tree thing reminds me of another mystery in TV. The question, “who put up the wall” on the historical side was never answered along with why.

[Advogado]

Except in this case I believe that was the deal offered by the authorities.
According to published reports, it was a deal proposed by 1 CDD board, and I would doubt if the board has that authority. I have never heard of anything like it before. A felon does not get off, elsewhere, by merely returning, anonymously, the loot. Only in The Villages, I guess.

[CWGUY]

This tree thing reminds me of another mystery in TV. The question, “who put up the wall” on the historical side was never answered along with why.

:ohdear: Surely you can find a fresher scab than that to pick.

[outlaw]

According to published reports, it was a deal proposed by 1 CDD board, and I would doubt if the board has that authority. I have never heard of anything like it before. A felon does not get off, elsewhere, by merely returning, anonymously, the loot. Only in The Villages, I guess.

I read that this was cleared through the state attorney's office or the appropriate FL authorities.

[Advogado]

I read that this was cleared through the state attorney's office or the appropriate FL authorities.

If true, it would still be bizarre.

[Bogie Shooter]

Do you remember your post (#83 in another thread) - "Apparently the amnesty offer has not caused the perpetrators to come forward, and why should it! Though I applaud the offer of prosecution amnesty, why should they come forward since it seems we are no closer to solving this crime than we've ever been?"

:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

Are you saying there are other posts?:ho:

[Advogado]

Look at it as a form of plea bargaining. The state attorney agreed to not prosecute if the perps ponied up the costs to rectify the damage caused. It happens every day in our judicial system.

Deals to drop felony charges in exchange for anonymous restitution do not happen every day in our judicial system. In any event, I guess it's too bad for the perps that the Friends of Lake Miona, instead of the perps, ponied up the money.

[Bogie Shooter]

It seems to me the perp(s) should have been required to make restitution for ALL costs involved as well as make a public apology to avoid doing time for their crime. Their continuing anonymity appears to be quite cowardly IMHO.

Did the payment include a note "payment in full"? What makes you think (?) that as additional costs are incurred payment will not be made?

[outlaw]

They are just a few trees. I really can't see someone being imprisoned for cutting down a few trees in a swamp, given that the trees will be replaced anyway. I used to go out into the woods and cut down oak trees for firewood. And this was sanctioned by the federal government.

[Villageswimmer]

Did the payment include a note "payment in full"? What makes you think (?) that as additional costs are incurred payment will not be made?

I think it's safe to assume additional costs will be paid as they occur. Someone wants to make this right, and it is the honorable thing to do. Perhaps they did not realize it was a criminal act.

[Bogie Shooter]

Deals to drop felony charges in exchange for anonymous restitution do not happen every day in our judicial system. In any event, I guess it's too bad for the perps that the Friends of Lake Miona, instead of the perps, ponied up the money.
How do you know that?

[Advogado]

How do you know that?

How do I know what?

[bargee]

The term"Hush Money" comes to mind.

[NavyNJ]

I read that this was cleared through the state attorney's office or the appropriate FL authorities.

I've kept up with this "adventure" throughout, and I do not recall ever seeing any such "official" statement, in any news source. It's possible I missed it. ANy chance you can provide or recall where you read that?

[Bogie Shooter]

Deals to drop felony charges in exchange for anonymous restitution do not happen every day in our judicial system. In any event, I guess it's too bad for the perps that the Friends of Lake Miona, instead of the perps, ponied up the money.

How do you know that?

How do I know what?

That Friends of Lake Miona, paid instead of the perps.
Could the be one and the same? Or, do you have some inside information?

[Villageswimmer]

The term"Hush Money" comes to mind.


Possibly, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? They were offered a deal that involved making restitution. Let them make full restitution and let's move on. I'm happy that their conscience finally got the best of them.

[manaboutown]

Possibly, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? They were offered a deal that involved making restitution. Let them make full restitution and let's move on. I'm happy that their conscience finally got the best of them.

It might be only a quarter of a gift horse and I seriously doubt their conscience is what got to them; public pressure of various sorts did.

They may not be out of the woods yet if this was not a legally qualified (way too soft) deal.

Maybe the AG or another legal authority will ax the deal.

[Mleeja]

Is it just me or does the recent post remind anyone of the Salem witch trials or the book, The Scarlet Letter? Maybe the persons responsible could wear a big "C" for cutter.... Let's move on folks, nothing to see here.

[Advogado]

They are just a few trees. I really can't see someone being imprisoned for cutting down a few trees in a swamp, given that the trees will be replaced anyway. I used to go out into the woods and cut down oak trees for firewood. And this was sanctioned by the federal government.

Are you serious? The perpetrator(s) caused $40,000 in damage to property--payable by you and me. This is a felony punishable by five years in prison under Florida law.

[Advogado]

Is it just me or does the recent post remind anyone of the Salem witch trials or the book, The Scarlet Letter? Maybe the persons responsible could wear a big "C" for cutter.... Let's move on folks, nothing to see here.

It is just you.

[tuccillo]

In the absence of other information, I would assume the "Friends of Lake Miona" are actually the individual(s) responsible. It isn't clear to me why anyone else would pay. This was apparently handled through an attorney to preserve the anonymity. Presumably these sorts of "deals" have some documentation to the effect that there will be no future prosecution. It is not clear to me how you document a deal when you don't know who the deal is with.

Deals to drop felony charges in exchange for anonymous restitution do not happen every day in our judicial system. In any event, I guess it's too bad for the perps that the Friends of Lake Miona, instead of the perps, ponied up the money.

[tuccillo]

The difference is that cutting down these trees is illegal.

They are just a few trees. I really can't see someone being imprisoned for cutting down a few trees in a swamp, given that the trees will be replaced anyway. I used to go out into the woods and cut down oak trees for firewood. And this was sanctioned by the federal government.

[Bogie Shooter]

I've kept up with this "adventure" throughout, and I do not recall ever seeing any such "official" statement, in any news source. It's possible I missed it. ANy chance you can provide or recall where you read that?

The online news original article of the offer covers this issue. Do a search on that site.

[Barefoot]

In any event, I guess it's too bad for the perps that the Friends of Lake Miona, instead of the perps, ponied up the money.
I would think the "Friends of Lake Miona" are definitely the perps! What makes you think they're not the people who paid to cut down the trees?? :confused:

[Advogado]

I would think the "Friends of Lake Miona" are definitely the perps! What makes you think they're not the people who paid to cut down the trees?? :confused:

I was being facetious.

[outlaw]

Are you serious? The perpetrator(s) caused $40,000 in damage to property--payable by you and me. This is a felony punishable by five years in prison under Florida law.

There was not $40,000 in damage. Think it was 5 trees. The state fine is what all the money is about. They could plant 5 trees for less than $5,000.

[NavyNJ]

The online news original article of the offer covers this issue. Do a search on that site.

Yeah, I did find and re-read that article regarding CDD5 deciding to not prosecute. And although it did mention that Dist. Mgr. Tutt inquired with the local State Attorney's Office on the matter of deciding to pursue prosecution or not, it sounded like all that took place was a casual phone call, at best, about the matter. I don't believe the State Attorney has officially weighed in on this via any correspondence or other communication, which I would interpret as Ms. Tutt not having more than a "what if" type phone conversation with someone in that office.

The other point that I don't think has ever been very clearly established is who, exactly, is/are the "damaged parties" that would have a say in whether to prosecute or not?? Is it Ms. Tutt and the VCCDD, the SLCDD, the Projectwide Advisory Committee (who seems to have been paying the fines and remediation costs so far), CDD5 where the damage occurred, CDD's 5-10 who are sharing in the costs by decision of the PWAC? Or, is it the "Developer" in the form of VLSI (Vilalges of Lake-Sumter, Inc.)?

Seems like the check was made out to SLCDD. Be interesting to see how those funds are now re-allocated back to the Districts that have been assessed a share of the costs.

[outlaw]

The difference is that cutting down these trees is illegal.

It's also illegal to speed. But most people do it frequently, and we usually don't throw them in jail. They pay a fine and everyone moves on.

[Challenger]

Possibly, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? They were offered a deal that involved making restitution. Let them make full restitution and let's move on. I'm happy that their conscience finally got the best of them.

Ahhhhh1 We paid $30,000 fine, replanted trees $ ???, and will pay for annual progress inspections and remediation $ ???. Some on these threads have estimated that CDDs will suffer costs approaching $75-$100,000.

Why would we give rather affluents criminals a hugh discounr and then not prosecute. In my opinion, the money is not the main issue here, It is the act and some degree of appropriate punishment, apology and disclosure of names of those involved.

About the same treatment indigent folks get for public drunkeness.

[Challenger]

It's also illegal to speed. But most people do it frequently, and we usually don't throw them in jail. They pay a fine and everyone moves on.

And their public record is noted and name is most likely published in media.

[rubicon]

I think the crime deserves public ridicule and the perpetrators should be branded with a scartlett T for the unlawful act of cutting them down.:D

I also wonder who the Friends of Bridgeport Lake Miona are ? I mean all we have is an article that says this group via an attorney submitted a check to pay for the value of the tree . How do we know it isn't a slight of hand by the SLCCD to shut people up? Who is paying for the other costs and expenses attributed to this crime? :D

On the serious side it does appear that those charged with bringing the perpetrators to justice split the baby to have done with it but justice demands that the perpetrators man up and pay all damages attributed to their illegal actions. No justice no peace.:boxing2::D

[tuccillo]

Speeding isn't usually a felony. As someone pointed out already, cutting down the tree may carry a potential jail time punishment. Trying to equate a simple speeding ticket with what happened with the trees is pointless.

It's also illegal to speed. But most people do it frequently, and we usually don't throw them in jail. They pay a fine and everyone moves on.

[dolpterry]

Wonder if there's a Friends of Lake Deaton also, trees have been cut in the back of 3 houses there also. This will be the next big story.

[manaboutown]

Translation: Friends of Lake Miona = felons who cut down the trees and hope to remain cowardly anonymous and get off on the cheap.

[rubicon]

Wonder if there's a Friends of Lake Deaton also, trees have been cut in the back of 3 houses there also. This will be the next big story.

How does that song from Grease go????????? Tell me more tell me more ..............

[Topspinmo]

If I lived in million dollar plus village I would be embarrassed and want this to go away. IMO just cause they (if it was the one that paid for the unauthorized tree removal) got lawyer and paid part of the damages and after math Don't mean they escape felony charge. If this happens what does it say for our judicial system? Money talks and bullshyt walks. At the end of the trail IMO it's all about the money.

[Bogie Shooter]

Yeah, I did find and re-read that article regarding CDD5 deciding to not prosecute. And although it did mention that Dist. Mgr. Tutt inquired with the local State Attorney's Office on the matter of deciding to pursue prosecution or not, it sounded like all that took place was a casual phone call, at best, about the matter. I don't believe the State Attorney has officially weighed in on this via any correspondence or other communication, which I would interpret as Ms. Tutt not having more than a "what if" type phone conversation with someone in that office.

The other point that I don't think has ever been very clearly established is who, exactly, is/are the "damaged parties" that would have a say in whether to prosecute or not?? Is it Ms. Tutt and the VCCDD, the SLCDD, the Projectwide Advisory Committee (who seems to have been paying the fines and remediation costs so far), CDD5 where the damage occurred, CDD's 5-10 who are sharing in the costs by decision of the PWAC? Or, is it the "Developer" in the form of VLSI (Vilalges of Lake-Sumter, Inc.)?

Seems like the check was made out to SLCDD. Be interesting to see how those funds are now re-allocated back to the Districts that have been assessed a share of the costs.

Oh my.........

[Bogie Shooter]

Envey sure takes on different forms.

[dbussone]

Speeding isn't usually a felony. As someone pointed out already, cutting down the tree may carry a potential jail time punishment. Trying to equate a simple speeding ticket with what happened with the trees is pointless.


In a golf cart, speeding can easily result in a felony.

[graciegirl]

If I lived in million dollar plus village I would be embarrassed and want this to go away. IMO just cause they (if it was the one that paid for the unauthorized tree removal) got lawyer and paid part of the damages and after math Don't mean they escape felony charge. If this happens what does it say for our judicial system? Money talks and bullshyt walks. At the end of the trail IMO it's all about the money.


At the very least that is terribly unkind and it is so unfair. You would be mighty surprised at the folks who live in all kinds of homes here. I know one thing for damn sure. They all planned carefully, worked hard and saved their money. Financial security doesn't just fall on you.

[tuccillo]

I don't believe we were talking about a golf cart but thanks for your 2 cents ;-)

In a golf cart, speeding can easily result in a felony.

[Mleeja]

I am just amazed how vindictive posters are on this subject. I am nowhere close to Lake Minoa, but will gladly contribute the $3.00 I'ved save by not striping the MMPs to the Friends of Lake Minoa if it will end this topic....

[Chi-Town]

I am just amazed how vindictive posters are on this subject. I am nowhere close to Lake Minoa, but will gladly contribute the $3.00 I'ved save by not striping the MMPs to the Friends of Lake Minoa if it will end this topic....
For certain posters this is their raison d'être. They can't end it.

[billethkid]

I love it when folks state their opinion on the subject at hand and then feel the need to have to grind their ax about location, size of homes, and anything else that is caught in their shorts that day.

Hence you are right, there are some things that do preclude TV being perfect:D

[Barefoot]

I am nowhere close to Lake Minoa, but will gladly contribute the $3.00 I'ved save by not striping the MMPs to the Friends of Lake Minoa if it will end this topic.... Mleeja, I'm not trying to be rude or a smart mouth, but this topic seems to bother you greatly.
Obviously people still have comments and opinions to voice.
When a thread is really getting on my nerves, I unsubscribe from it and stop reading the posts.

[Challenger]

I am just amazed how vindictive posters are on this subject. I am nowhere close to Lake Minoa, but will gladly contribute the $3.00 I'ved save by not striping the MMPs to the Friends of Lake Minoa if it will end this topic....

If someone stole $100,000 out of the cash drawer at a friends store, would you think it vindictive for people to be outraged. In fact, this crime has a similar consequence in the opinion of many posters. Stealing $100,000 would rise to the level of grand theft, a major felony.

I believe that there may be other issues now that the perps have evaded prosecution for all these months that may include obstruction of justice or related charges.

I think postings on TOTV are the proximate cause of the "Friends" coming up with a cash response to the CDD5 offer. Now that we have their attention ,I think that we should keep up not lessen the pressure.

For those who don't wish to read mine or other posts--- don't.

[rubicon]

In fairness to everyone that posted, here is what is really at the heart of this matter. That a resident( quasi-neighbor) if you will, thought little enough of fellow residents and was going to leave them on the hook for a wrong s/he committed. And this happens to be a resident who could well afford a very upscale home here, and so one would conclude could easily meet his/her financial obligation. In this same vein this resident had the conceit to believe s/he was so privileged to have the right to act on this wrong with impunity.

Now we find with little explanation that this resident hires an attorney as a go between to strike a deal at a bargain price with no apparent consequences. We don't know what's in the deal and as we learned at the national level people get nervous when deals are made in secret.

I am incensed over the thinking that went into this act and the nature in which this resident(s) went about to hide their guilt. Forgive my histrionics but its like hiding the identity of the burglar . Like most on this forum,I am not a vindictive person but have a strong sense of fairness and so I can understand why some may believe that this wrong-doer(s) got away relatively easy.

[Cedwards38]

Mleeja, I'm not trying to be rude or a smart mouth, but this topic seems to bother you greatly.
Obviously people still have comments and opinions to voice.
When a thread is really getting on my nerves, I unsubscribe from it and stop reading the posts.

Well stated.

[outlaw]

Maybe this person, who did something he/she shouldn't have done, after the public reaction that spread to his neighbors, felt remorse and decided to cough up the expense (no small punishment in my book) to hopefully make things right regarding any damages, and to relieve his neighbors of anymore fallout. Instead of being satisfied that expenses will be covered, many still want their pound of flesh. Some people just have no room for forgiveness.

[Cedwards38]

Envey sure takes on different forms.

So does privilege. This isn't about money or whose house is bigger. It's about fairness and justice.

[Cedwards38]

In fairness to everyone that posted, here is what is really at the heart of this matter. That a resident( quasi-neighbor) if you will, thought little enough of fellow residents and was going to leave them on the hook for a wrong s/he committed. And this happens to be a resident who could well afford a very upscale home here, and so one would conclude could easily meet his/her financial obligation. In this same vein this resident had the conceit to believe s/he was so privileged to have the right to act on this wrong with impunity.

Now we find with little explanation that this resident hires an attorney as a go between to strike a deal at a bargain price with no apparent consequences. We don't know what's in the deal and as we learned at the national level people get nervous when deals are made in secret.

I am incensed over the thinking that went into this act and the nature in which this resident(s) went about to hide their guilt. Forgive my histrionics but its like hiding the identity of the burglar . Like most on this forum,I am not a vindictive person but have a strong sense of fairness and so I can understand why some may believe that this wrong-doer(s) got away relatively easy.

Thank you.

[outlaw]

Speeding isn't usually a felony. As someone pointed out already, cutting down the tree may carry a potential jail time punishment. Trying to equate a simple speeding ticket with what happened with the trees is pointless.

You're right. Cutting down a tree is now a felony. Unbelievable!

[tuccillo]

If you want to be forgiven, step forward, identify yourself, admit what you did, and then ask forgiveness. In other words, man-up and do the right thing. Those actions will relieve the neighbors of any fallout. Nobody will forgive you if you hide behind an attorney and remain anonymous. Regardless, in the absence of any other information, I suspect the anonymous party is only looking to avoid some sort of prosecution. I haven't heard the attorney communicate that the anonymous party was sorry about the trees and the whole affair.


Maybe this, who did something he/she shouldn't have done, after the public reaction that spread to his neighbors, felt remorse and decided to cough up the expense (no small punishment in my book) to hopefully make things right regarding any damages, and to relieve his neighbors of anymore fallout. Instead of being satisfied that expenses will be covered, many still want their pound of flesh. Some people just have no room for forgiveness.

[outlaw]

Is it just me or does the recent post remind anyone of the Salem witch trials or the book, The Scarlet Letter? Maybe the persons responsible could wear a big "C" for cutter.... Let's move on folks, nothing to see here.

You hit the nail on the head! A mob with blood dripping from their mouths. I'm beginning to understand the locals' negative opinion of TVers.

[tuccillo]

Go into a national park, say where the Redwoods or Sequoias are located in CA, and cut down a tree and see what happens.

You're right. Cutting down a tree is now a felony. Unbelievable!

[outlaw]

If you want to be forgiven, step forward, identify yourself, admit what you did, and then ask forgiveness. In other words, man-up and do the right thing. Those actions will relieve the neighbors of any fallout. Nobody will forgive you if you hide behind an attorney and remain anonymous. Regardless, in the absence of any other information, I suspect the anonymous party is only looking to avoid some sort of prosecution. I haven't heard the attorney communicate that the anonymous party was sorry about the trees and the whole affair.

If the person who did this, read this thread, they would correctly conclude that they would be shunned and cursed by all of you. Anyone in their right mind would realize that this is just phase 1 of "justice" in the eyes of this mob.

[outlaw]

Go into a national park, say where the Redwoods or Sequoias are located in CA, and cut down a tree and see what happens.

Exactly! California. Go figure.

[tuccillo]

Not at all. Just step forward and take responsibility for your actions. That is what responsible adults do. After that, most people won't give it a second thought.

If the person who did this, read this thread, they would correctly conclude that they would be shunned and cursed by all of you. Anyone in their right mind would realize that this is just phase 1 of "justice" in the eyes of this mob.

[CFrance]

Exactly! California. Go figure.
Or any other national park in any other state. You miss the point.

I for one am glad that many (whose money would be used to right this arrogant wrong) did not lay down and die. I do believe public pressure has had an effect in the face of "the powers that be" wanting it to be swept under the rug.

[Advogado]

If you want to be forgiven, step forward, identify yourself, admit what you did, and then ask forgiveness. In other words, man-up and do the right thing. Those actions will relieve the neighbors of any fallout. Nobody will forgive you if you hide behind an attorney and remain anonymous. Regardless, in the absence of any other information, I suspect the anonymous party is only looking to avoid some sort of prosecution. I haven't heard the attorney communicate that the anonymous party was sorry about the trees and the whole affair.
Certainly it appears that the perpetrator(s) (Friends of Lake Miona-- ha, you couldn't make this stuff up) came forward only when it looked like pressure from the POA and this website might cause the sheriff to actually conduct a thorough investigation of the crime or neighbors to come forward with information. Furthermore, it is very likely that the perpetrator(s) are reading and perhaps participating in this thread, which may explain the some of the efforts to cut off discussion. There are certainly a lot of unanswered questions in this matter, such as what, exactly, is the deal between the attorney for the perpetrators and the prosecutor? In a community with a real newspaper, this would all be reported.

[Advogado]

You're right. Cutting down a tree is now a felony. Unbelievable!

I believe that you'll find it causing $40,000 worth of property damage is a felony in any state of the country and probably in any country of the world.

[Johnd]

Congratulations to CDD5 for breaking through the fog and proposing the "amnesty for no prosecution" idea. It has to be more than coincidence that these funds appear shortly after the publication of this idea.

The lawyer for the "Friends" should have taken the necessary steps to ensure his clients have secured amnesty to the extent he is able. I think the amount obtained is close to the amount actually spent to this date. "Our" side should negotiate a deal for additional funds from the "Friends" as costs accumulate.

I have every confidence they'll do their best as they have done already.

[ldj1938]

Works for me! Whoever did this is despicable.

[outlaw]

I believe that you'll find it causing $40,000 worth of property damage is a felony in any state of the country and probably in any country of the world.

It isn't $40K property damage! That is mostly fines by the state.

[Advogado]

It isn't $40K property damage! That is mostly fines by the state.

How much do you think it would cost to replace just one of the giant oak trees that were cut down??? Replacement costs alone could easily exceed $40,000. But to be a felony, the damage only needs to be $1,000 or more. I would suggest you read up on your law before equating this crime with a minor traffic offense.

[Mleeja]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the person or persons responsible for the tree cutting may never be known. It has been well documented here and elsewhere that the district has offered "confidentiality" and "forgiveness" by not prosecuting if the district was reimbursed. It appears this has happened by the Friends of Lake Minoa. I'd be willing to bet as far as the district is concerned this is a closed matter.

Also, I seriously doubt if the postings on this website or the POA had any influence in the Friends of Lake Minoa making the payment. "Most" of the residents in The Villages probably do not even know about this site or if they do, do not log on. The POA had one article in the June news letter and two "letter to the editiors" in the July issue. This was it for 2015. I don't see this a "alot of pressure".

It was more likely the law enforcemnt end of the equation. They knew who was responsible and although may have not had enough evidence to file charges, they had enough to compel paymnet. It is call negotiations!

Someone mentioned if I do not like this topic, I should quit reading. I continue reading becasue I want to be informed on this topic and others posted on this site. I am just amazed how vindictive we are here in The Villages, especially if you do not agree.

I think I am glad that most of the wonderful residents do not read and post on this site. I would move if this was the case.... (ha! beat you to it!)

[Barefoot]

Congratulations to CDD5 for breaking through the fog and proposing the "amnesty for no prosecution" idea. It has to be more than coincidence that these funds appear shortly after the publication of this idea.

The lawyer for the "Friends" should have taken the necessary steps to ensure his clients have secured amnesty to the extent he is able. I think the amount obtained is close to the amount actually spent to this date. "Our" side should negotiate a deal for additional funds from the "Friends" as costs accumulate.

I have every confidence they'll do their best as they have done already.

GREAT POST - Sensible, unemotional, factual, positive! :ho:

[outlaw]

How much do you think it would cost to replace just one of the giant oak trees that were cut down??? Replacement costs alone could easily exceed $40,000. But to be a felony, the damage only needs to be $1,000 or more. I would suggest you read up on your law before equating this crime with a minor traffic offense.

That's ridiculous. No one replaces a fully grown oak with another one. They will plant a few (5?) trees, maybe 30 or 40 gallon size, and in a decade no one will notice. My God! You can have 30 foot palm trees planted for $300-$600, delivered. Do you go this crazy when the developer clear cuts acreage for the next village? No, of course not. They will plant small trees, and in a decade or so nature will run its course.

[outlaw]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the person or persons responsible for the tree cutting may never be known. It has been well documented here and elsewhere that the district has offered "confidentiality" and "forgiveness" by not prosecuting if the district was reimbursed. It appears this has happened by the Friends of Lake Minoa. I'd be willing to bet as far as the district is concerned this is a closed matter.

Also, I seriously doubt if the postings on this website or the POA had any influence in the Friends of Lake Minoa making the payment. "Most" of the residents in The Villages probably do not even know about this site or if they do, do not log on. The POA had one article in the June news letter and two "letter to the editiors" in the July issue. This was it for 2015. I don't see this a "alot of pressure".

It was more likely the law enforcemnt end of the equation. They knew who was responsible and although may have not had enough evidence to file charges, they had enough to compel paymnet. It is call negotiations!

Someone mentioned if I do not like this topic, I should quit reading. I continue reading becasue I want to be informed on this topic and others posted on this site. I am just amazed how vindictive we are here in The Villages, especially if you do not agree.

I think I am glad that most of the wonderful residents do not read and post on this site. I would move if this was the case.... (ha! beat you to it!)

Whew! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, YOU CAN....?? What?...Oh....she did?...never mind.

[tuccillo]

A couple of points. I believe the trees in question were large live oaks. They are slow growers, I have had them. Perhaps in 100 years, not 10 years, no one will notice. Secondly, I believe the tress in questions were in a protected area. This is hardly the same thing as clearing a non-protected area for houses.

That's ridiculous. No one replaces a fully grown oak with another one. They will plant a few (5?) trees, maybe 30 or 40 gallon size, and in a decade no one will notice. My God! You can have 30 foot palm trees planted for $300-$600, delivered. Do you go this crazy when the developer clear cuts acreage for the next village? No, of course not. They will plant small trees, and in a decade or so nature will run its course.

[Advogado]

That's ridiculous. No one replaces a fully grown oak with another one. They will plant a few (5?) trees, maybe 30 or 40 gallon size, and in a decade no one will notice. My God! You can have 30 foot palm trees planted for $300-$600, delivered. Do you go this crazy when the developer clear cuts acreage for the next village? No, of course not. They will plant small trees, and in a decade or so nature will run its course.

You would get laughed out of court with that argument.

[graciegirl]

A couple of points. I believe the trees in question were large live oaks. They are slow growers, I have had them. Perhaps in 100 years, not 10 years, no one will notice. Secondly, I believe the tress in questions were in a protected area. This is hardly the same thing as clearing a non-protected area for houses.



Well said and clearly the point of the huge "kerfuffle". (Judge Judy always says that.)

[chuckinca]

The live oak in our backyard went from 6' high, 2" diameter trunk to 30' high, 16" diameter trunk with a 30' diameter limb spread in 10 years. Nearly that size in 7 years.

Not exactly slow growth.

.

[Polar Bear]

...I believe the tress in questions were in a protected area. This is hardly the same thing as clearing a non-protected area for houses.
It's all about the permitting. No tree above a minimum size (and not a junk species) can be removed without a permit whether it's in a protected area or not. Protected areas just have more specific restrictions on what can or cannot be done.

Even large scale 'clearing' of trees for houses, etc. has been permitted if the construction is being done legally. And usually there is compensation for the cleared trees...oftentimes trees planted in another nearby area...included as part of the permit.

[tuccillo]

I had one (a newly planted tree) double it's trunk diameter in 10 years. Regardless, they are classified as slow growers. "Slow" is relative to other trees. Look it up.

The live oak in our backyard went from 6' high, 2" diameter trunk to 30' high, 16" diameter trunk with a 30' diameter limb spread in 10 years. Nearly that size in 7 years.

Not exactly slow growth.

.

[tuccillo]

Good observation. The important point is trees were cut down in an area where a permit would not have been issued.

It's all about the permitting. No tree above a minimum size (and not a junk species) can be removed without a permit whether it's in a protected area or not. Protected areas just have more specific restrictions on what can or cannot be done.

Even large scale 'clearing' of trees for houses, etc. has been permitted if the construction is being done legally. And usually there is compensation for the cleared trees...oftentimes trees planted in another nearby area...included as part of the permit.

[PennBF]

Conscience and fear of jail causes a lot of people to get religion and confess to their crimes.:ohdear:

[chuckinca]

I had one (a newly planted tree) double it's trunk diameter in 10 years. Regardless, they are classified as slow growers. "Slow" is relative to other trees. Look it up.



Growth Habits

Young live oak trees grow quickly, putting on as much as 3 feet of new growth and 1 inch of trunk diameter every year. In most areas of the country, live oak trees keep their leaves year-round, although they may drop their leaves in the most northern areas of their range. Older live oak trees often harbor epiphytic plants such as mistletoe or Spanish moss. Live oak trees can live over 100 years.

Read more: Live Oak Tree Facts | Garden Guides

Live Oak Tree Facts | Garden Guides (http://www.gardenguides.com/116096-live-oak-tree.html)

.

[Polar Bear]

...they are classified as slow growers. "Slow" is relative to other trees...
Actually southern live oaks grow quickly in their younger years. They live so long that this 'younger' phase is a very long time...heheh. It's later on that their growth slows.

Read the "Typical Lifespan" paragraph here...

https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wildlife-Library/Plants/Southern-Live-Oak.aspx

[rubicon]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the person or persons responsible for the tree cutting may never be known. It has been well documented here and elsewhere that the district has offered "confidentiality" and "forgiveness" by not prosecuting if the district was reimbursed. It appears this has happened by the Friends of Lake Minoa. I'd be willing to bet as far as the district is concerned this is a closed matter.

Also, I seriously doubt if the postings on this website or the POA had any influence in the Friends of Lake Minoa making the payment. "Most" of the residents in The Villages probably do not even know about this site or if they do, do not log on. The POA had one article in the June news letter and two "letter to the editiors" in the July issue. This was it for 2015. I don't see this a "alot of pressure".

It was more likely the law enforcemnt end of the equation. They knew who was responsible and although may have not had enough evidence to file charges, they had enough to compel paymnet. It is call negotiations!

Someone mentioned if I do not like this topic, I should quit reading. I continue reading becasue I want to be informed on this topic and others posted on this site. I am just amazed how vindictive we are here in The Villages, especially if you do not agree.

I think I am glad that most of the wonderful residents do not read and post on this site. I would move if this was the case.... (ha! beat you to it!)

Dear Don't Rain On My Parade:

So you don't mind that a resident(s) took it upon his/her/them selves to cut a clearing in a protected area and then left fellow residents holding the bag. and that it took much pressure and publicity to shame/pressure said resident(S) into striking the best deal?

I have lived here for 9 years and I'll dare you to cut, trim remove any tree that The Villages planted and see who comes knocking at your door

Friend at Lake Minoa now only cut down a tree but more than one in a protected area no less just because of conceit.....i want a clearing.

My parents taught me not to damage other people's property i.e respect other people's property.

and so the Friends at.... rained on our parade.

Personal Best Regards:

[tuccillo]

Live oak (Quercus spp.) is not generally known as a fast-growing species. For instance, the canyon live oak (Quercus chrysolepis) and coast live oak (Quercus agrifolia) may grow 24 inches per year, and interior live oak (Quercus wislizeni) may grow 12 to 24 Inches per year. This relatively slow growth rate ensures the oak’s wood is dense enough to support the tall-growing, long-living species; many live oaks grow to be 65 feet tall and can live more than 150 years. If want to quicken your live oak's growth rate, provide it optimal growing conditions. Canyon live oak is hardy in U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) plant hardiness zones 8 through 10. Coast live oak is hardy in USDA zones 9 through 10, and interior live oak is hardy in USDA zone 8.

My point is 10 years (as suggested by someone) is not going to give a large live oak. 100 years will.





Growth Habits

Young live oak trees grow quickly, putting on as much as 3 feet of new growth and 1 inch of trunk diameter every year. In most areas of the country, live oak trees keep their leaves year-round, although they may drop their leaves in the most northern areas of their range. Older live oak trees often harbor epiphytic plants such as mistletoe or Spanish moss. Live oak trees can live over 100 years.

Read more: Live Oak Tree Facts | Garden Guides

Live Oak Tree Facts | Garden Guides (http://www.gardenguides.com/116096-live-oak-tree.html)

.

[outlaw]

Cutting these trees down was not illegal. I prefer to look at it as an undocumented act.

[dave harris]

rank has privilege

[graciegirl]

rank has privilege





WHO has rank in this mess? Are you being snarky about folks who live in Premier homes? That would be ignorant AND uncaring. There are lots of people who live in all kinds of homes all over this country who do damn awful stuff. AND get away with it. AND we all pay. We pay for tattoos and cell phones of people who deal drugs and don't report their income or pay for the support of their children...For starters.

The folks who selfishly and arrogantly went onto public property and cleared their view are wrong, but all the folks who live in that area are not complicit. There are many wonderful people who live there who had nothing to do with it and are mad and feel awful, I am sure. I don't think for a minute they had anything to do with it, most of them, or covered it up. I imagine they are all pretty sure WHO did it, because they have been at gatherings with folks who always act like their fannies weigh a ton.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

QUOTE=Challenger;1095359]Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantely someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.[/QUOTE]

Where does that $100,000 figure some from? How did it cost the districts anything because a few trees were cut down?

[NavyNJ]

rank has privilege

Although that may be true (RHIP).....most forget the second half of that saying, which is just as, if not more, important......Rank Has Its Responsibilities!! And I'm not saying that either of these sayings applies to this situation at all.....just that the complete saying has 2 parts. Cheers! :)

[Mleeja]

WHO has rank in this mess? Are you being snarky about folks who live in Premier homes? That would be ignorant AND uncaring. There are lots of people who live in all kinds of homes all over this country who do damn awful stuff. AND get away with it. AND we all pay. We pay for tattoos and cell phones of people who deal drugs and don't report their income or pay for the support of their children...For starters.

The folks who selfishly and arrogantly went onto public property and cleared their view are wrong, but all the folks who live in that area are not complicit. There are many wonderful people who live there who had nothing to do with it and are mad and feel awful, I am sure. I don't think for a minute they had anything to do with it, most of them, or covered it up. I imagine they are all pretty sure WHO did it, because they have been at gatherings with folks who always act like their fannies weigh a ton.

Nice post Gracie....

[Mleeja]

WHO has rank in this mess? Are you being snarky about folks who live in Premier homes? That would be ignorant AND uncaring. There are lots of people who live in all kinds of homes all over this country who do damn awful stuff. AND get away with it. AND we all pay. We pay for tattoos and cell phones of people who deal drugs and don't report their income or pay for the support of their children...For starters.

The folks who selfishly and arrogantly went onto public property and cleared their view are wrong, but all the folks who live in that area are not complicit. There are many wonderful people who live there who had nothing to do with it and are mad and feel awful, I am sure. I don't think for a minute they had anything to do with it, most of them, or covered it up. I imagine they are all pretty sure WHO did it, because they have been at gatherings with folks who always act like their fannies weigh a ton.

Nice post Gracie....

[billethkid]

rank has privilege

How about helping us understand what your message is supposed to be?

[TheVillageChicken]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/DeSwiss/111001_Economic_Trends_t618.jpg

No data available yet for pillory sales.

[Advogado]

So this "donation" was from the Friends of Lake Miona and not from any guilty party? Is the FOLM an organized, incorporated group with more than one objective, and where do they get their funds? Bless them for their generous spirit, but this crime has not been solved, and should be.

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.

[Challenger]

QUOTE=Challenger;1095359]Hmmmm- Total costs suffered by districts= +or- $100,000

Reimbursement from "someone" $25,000.

Apparantely someone has a smidgen of remorse or wants us to shut up.

Where does that $100,000 figure some from? How did it cost the districts anything because a few trees were cut down?[/QUOTE]

I am refering to posts that I read in a previous thread on ther matter. At least one poster indicated that there was an article in the on line News that the Fine was $30,000, replanting could cost from $40-50,000 . Another post indicated that the District woul be responsible for annual inspections and replanting, if necessary for 4-5 years at about $2500 per year.

Not quite $100,000 but a good bit more than the charitable offering of the "Friends."

If my numbers are not close enough or incorrect I would be happy to adopt the correct figures , if a knowlegable respondent can provide them.

[Challenger]

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.

Isn't the illegal clearing of these trees on publically owned property a crime against the citizens of Florida. If , so , how can anyone offer amnesty other than through judicial action?

[DonH57]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/DeSwiss/111001_Economic_Trends_t618.jpg

No data available yet for pillory sales.

Excellent cartoon!:coolsmiley:

[Bogie Shooter]

So does privilege. This isn't about money or whose house is bigger. It's about fairness and justice.

You missed a couple posts.

[graciegirl]

Exactly. And as I have pointed out, this case appears to be solveable through subpoena of bank, credit card, and telephone records--as well as subpoena of potential witnesses.

What we are are seeing is a perversion of the criminal-justice system. Could a Villages burglar duck the whole system by anonymously returning the loot when things start to get hot? Incredible.

By the way, I would not object to a suspended sentence, fine, and restitution in this case. My objection is to the way this felony investigation has been handled and the lack of reporting as to what is going on. For example, what exactly is the deal that has been cut with the perpetrators' front organization, The Friends of Lake Miona, and the prosecutor? We are entitled to know.


How would their financial records make them look guilty? I would imagine it was a cash deal. And not that much either. I mean a withdrawal from someone's account of four or five hundred dollars to pay the tree cutters is NOT that noteworthy. I am afraid you wouldn't be a good writer for a crime series.

[graciegirl]

Isn't the illegal clearing of these trees on publically owned property a crime against the citizens of Florida. If , so , how can anyone offer amnesty other than through judicial action?



The fine has been paid and the trees have been replanted which satisfies the state agency that levied the fine.


Now the blood that someone wants and needs is a different story.


It is crummy and sordid and nasty and selfish and underhanded as hell but...you can't get blood out of a turnip.

[tuccillo]

You really don't know what you are going to find until you look.

How would their financial records make them look guilty? I would imagine it was a cash deal. And not that much either. I mean a withdrawal from someone's account of four or five hundred dollars to pay the tree cutters is NOT that noteworthy. I am afraid you wouldn't be a good writer for a crime series.

[graciegirl]

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

[tuccillo]

This was addressed by Advogadro previously and I also looked into it. The burden of proof to get phone records is apparently less than what is needed to get a search warrant (such as actually tapping a phone). I don't mean to speak for Advogadro, but I believe his point was there are records that can be obtained as part of an investigation that don't require probable cause. I would hope that all possible investigative options were exhausted. We may never know.

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

[Advogado]

The entity who has a reason to ask for that money now...is the entity that paid the fine and replanted the trees at their expense i.e.....the CDD. AND they are the ones that could negotiate.


According to the Constitution, one must have a reason to search that is valid and not frivolous. In other words you must supply an abundance of information to get a search warrant. The laws that protect the innocent also protect the guilty. You can't just say that it was behind their home. Which person exactly???? I am NOT defending the craponuses. I am just pointing out that witchhunts aren't legal.

Put politely, you have a total, utter, and complete misunderstanding of the fourth amendment and the law. Unlike a search warrant, no probable cause is required for a subpoena. Subpoenas are routinely issued as an investigative tool. Otherwise, no complex crimes would ever get solved.

[rubicon]

Put politely, you have a total, utter, and complete misunderstanding of the fourth amendment and the law. Unlike a search warrant, no probable cause is required for a subpoena. Subpoenas are routinely issued as an investigative tool. Otherwise, no complex crimes would ever get solved.

Advogado you are right they are used to primarily as fact finding and issued when potential witnesses refuse to testify or turn over documents. I was on the civil side of investigation and subpoenas were routinely used to compel

[NavyNJ]

Advogado you are right they are used to primarily as fact finding and issued when potential witnesses refuse to testify or turn over documents. I was on the civil side of investigation and subpoenas were routinely used to compel

Right as both of you are re: the use of subpoenas, they can also be quashed given the right circumstances. You can only "compel" to a point.....

[manaboutown]

At this point I am more than curious about the investigation, how and by whom it was conducted, what was found (and not found), who was interviewed, and what was done (and not done), what authorities were involved, who made the "plea bargain" offer, whether the offer could legally be made, and so on.

What is "the rest of the story"?

[Mleeja]

Put politely, you have a total, utter, and complete misunderstanding of the fourth amendment and the law. Unlike a search warrant, no probable cause is required for a subpoena. Subpoenas are routinely issued as an investigative tool. Otherwise, no complex crimes would ever get solved.

I am having a hard time understanding why you and your ilk cannot come to the accept the fact that the resitution has been made to the satisfaction of the district and probably the law enforcment community. As far as they are concerned this case is closed. When an offer of amnesty is made and accepted, that is usually it. You are not going to get your pound of flesh.

If you have put people behind bars as you say, then your are probably aware settlements are reached and court records are sealed to protect identities. We, the general public, are not going to findout the names of the person(s) responsible for the cutting. All you are doing now is bullying those that disagree with you.

Let's all agree to move on....

[NavyNJ]

At this point I am more than curious about the investigation, how and by whom it was conducted, what was found (and not found), who was interviewed, and what was done (and not done), what authorities were involved, who made the "plea bargain" offer, whether the offer could legally be made, and so on.

What is "the rest of the story"?

Actually, there might be some things you could do to try and discover some of all that. Maybe you could get a small group together on TOTV thru some PM's (you can probably guess who to invite) and draft some Florida Sunshine Law (Open Public Records) information requests and submit them to the various public agencies involved: Start local (CDD, SLCDD, VCCDD, PWAC, SCSO) and go up the chain to the higher level state agencies (State Atty. Office for Sumter County, Fish & Wildlife, the Southwest Water Mmgmnt Authority (or whatever it's called), etc.)

You will either get replies with various materials (correspondence, phone logs, emails, etc.), or maybe some of the materials will contain redacted passages, or maybe, you might just get some replies that state nothing can be released under one or more of the "open/active/ongoing investigation or case" exemptions of the Sunshine Law.

That might at least give you some idea whether the case is still active and being pursued, albeit at less than the speed of heat in a vacuum, or whether it has truly been closed. I, for one, would be quite interested to hear what you find out and what types of responses you receive. Go for it!!

[Chi-Town]

I am having a hard time understanding why you and your ilk cannot come to the accept the fact that the resitution has been made to the satisfaction of the district and probably the law enforcment community. As far as they are concerned this case is closed. When an offer of amnesty is made and accepted, that is usually it. You are not going to get your pound of flesh.

If you have put people behind bars as you say, then your are probably aware settlements are reached and court records are sealed to protect identities. We, the general public, are not going to findout the names of the person(s) responsible for the cutting. All you are doing now is bullying those that disagree with you.

Let's all agree to move on....

A very wise post. Thanks. It was definitely getting the political forum feel to it. Hmmm, I wonder why.

[Mleeja]

Actually, there might be some things you could do to try and discover some of all that. Maybe you could get a small group together on TOTV thru some PM's (you can probably guess who to invite) and draft some Florida Sunshine Law (Open Public Records) information requests and submit them to the various public agencies involved: Start local (CDD, SLCDD, VCCDD, PWAC, SCSO) and go up the chain to the higher level state agencies (State Atty. Office for Sumter County, Fish & Wildlife, the Southwest Water Mmgmnt Authority (or whatever it's called), etc.)

You will either get replies with various materials (correspondence, phone logs, emails, etc.), or maybe some of the materials will contain redacted passages, or maybe, you might just get some replies that state nothing can be released under one or more of the "open/active/ongoing investigation or case" exemptions of the Sunshine Law.

That might at least give you some idea whether the case is still active and being pursued, albeit at less than the speed of heat in a vacuum, or whether it has truly been closed. I, for one, would be quite interested to hear what you find out and what types of responses you receive. Go for it!!

And then a public lynching can be scheduled at Brownwood!!

[NavyNJ]

And then a public lynching can be scheduled at Brownwood!!

Haha!! Little did they know when they chose that "theme" for that newest Town Square what it might lead to.....or did they?? :icon_wink:

[Chi-Town]

Actually, there might be some things you could do to try and discover some of all that. Maybe you could get a small group together on TOTV thru some PM's (you can probably guess who to invite) and draft some Florida Sunshine Law (Open Public Records) information requests and submit them to the various public agencies involved: Start local (CDD, SLCDD, VCCDD, PWAC, SCSO) and go up the chain to the higher level state agencies (State Atty. Office for Sumter County, Fish & Wildlife, the Southwest Water Mmgmnt Authority (or whatever it's called), etc.)

You will either get replies with various materials (correspondence, phone logs, emails, etc.), or maybe some of the materials will contain redacted passages, or maybe, you might just get some replies that state nothing can be released under one or more of the "open/active/ongoing investigation or case" exemptions of the Sunshine Law.

That might at least give you some idea whether the case is still active and being pursued, albeit at less than the speed of heat in a vacuum, or whether it has truly been closed. I, for one, would be quite interested to hear what you find out and what types of responses you receive. Go for it!!
I read and reread your post. Each time it got better. I got it the second time and enjoyed each subsequent reading. Thanks.

[Challenger]

"The lady doth protest too much"

Why are a few so anxious to end the discussion- debate, in this thread. Why do they deride the victums of a crime who are calling for a modecum of justice for an arrogant crime.

I do not want to see a public lynching, but I do want to see that the perpetrators are outed and at least pay for all of the costs that they have caused our community. If $25,000 is the correct amount then so be it. If not then I for one won't be satisfied until all cost are covered.

If the property that was destroyed was on public lands then CDD5 is not the only party with standing to bring action. How can they offer amnesty without judicial action?

Financially, as a resident of CDD8 the proportionate costs for me approaches $0. I however, think that fairness would require the perpetrators to pay all of the costs.

[outlaw]

Personally, I'm OK with spreading the cost over everyone SOUTH of 466...so what do you guys think about striping the multi modal path?

[Bogie Shooter]

"The lady doth protest too much"

Why are a few so anxious to end the discussion- debate, in this thread. Why do they deride the victums of a crime who are calling for a modecum of justice for an arrogant crime.

I do not want to see a public lynching, but I do want to see that the perpetrators are outed and at least pay for all of the costs that they have caused our community. If $25,000 is the correct amount then so be it. If not then I for one won't be satisfied until all cost are covered.

If the property that was destroyed was on public lands then CDD5 is not the only party with standing to bring action. How can they offer amnesty without judicial action?

Financially, as a resident of CDD8 the proportionate costs for me approaches $0. I however, think that fairness would require the perpetrators to pay all of the costs.
And why is this outing so important to you? Would that change your life? A scarlet letter perhaps?