TV Absentee Landlords

[ConeyIsBabe]

As I sit in Oregon and think about my options.... (can't sell right now), (could wait until :dontknow: I sell), would it be practical buy property in TV now and rent it out, or let it sit vacant with a manager -- that's where I need some advice.

To all the TV landlords who don't live on their property (except to visit occasionally) if it's not too personal, may I ask for details - like who manages your property? What's the bottom line on cost for management? Assuming the property is F&C, can I assume total maintenance runs around $1,000 per month PLUS the management fee ?

As I recall reading somewhere on TOTV..... some people who do this, break even if the place is rented, if not - what would be a realistic figure for the cost of this endeavor?

THANKS for any answers ;D

[barb1191]

CIB...

We don't rent our TV home but I can offer this scenario, if you haven't already given this thought. If you are able to buy in TV while still owning in Oregon, how about the idea of renting Oregon and settle permanently in TV?

As I recall, you have someone living on your premises in Oregon that may be able to manage the property for you. Yes?

Just a thought.

barb

[ConeyIsBabe]

barb..... I do have someone living on the property who look after it, if I were to rent in TV for a month or two, but I would NOT consider renting out my house to tenants. Just exploring all my options. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Lil Dancer]

We had a patio villa about 5 years ago that we used to rent out. We stayed there a couple weeks a year and would check things out at that time. Otherwise, we hired someone to come in and clean after each tenant left and she would tell us what needed to be done. We had someone responsible doing the lawn, etc. So there really wasn't much maintenance to it. It was a great deal back then, because of the tax write offs, and because we were able to rent it about 10 months a year. Now, there is so much competiion - people have homes they haven't been able to sell, etc., that unless you've been doing it for awhile, and you have repeat customers, you might be able to rent only during the high season. Don't know if that would be profitable for you after paying all the expenses.

[wlou]

I am an absentee landlord as of last DEC (2007). The total costs I have spent so far...( I have a 3BR Wisteria designer ranch house) Electric 577.00, Gas 200.00, water/sewer 577.00, telephone 239.00 lawncare ( incl mowing and all spraying which you have to do here) 685.00 (that was paid all up front for the lawn stuff.) .. We are using the villages prop mgmt and it has been wonderful. Most of the renters have been on the Lifestyles preview tour and b/c of that , our home has not had hardly any wear and tear at all... We did not get it ready for rentals until 3-01 so missed out on the "high season" of Jan, Feb..The total (net) rental income after cleaning costs and prop fees that include when we have been down, equal...$ 4600.00 so far. When you go down as a "renter " in your own home, you have to pay the 20% fee that they would normally get. That way you stay within ALL guidelines for a rental property in the eyes of the IRS and can go whenever you want and as much as you want. That Part was VERY important to us. If you just rent out on your own, you have to be careful.IRS rules state that you can only go down to your property 14 days or less for "Maintenance"...Anyway, I hope all this helps as I remember how much stress it was figuring out what to do. ???We still have our home up north here and bought because we love TV..I say go for it! :)Especilally now while the prices are so reasonable..We have not regretted it. The rental income has not paid the moprtage at all but as you can see, is covering everything else. The added plus is their is no long term tenant AND TV property mgrs check on your place at least once a week and stay in touch with you..Good Luck and I hoped I helped!

[ConeyIsBabe]

Lil Dancer & wlou....... THANKS for the information; you have answered a lot of questions that were in my mind. There does seem to be a lot of competition in sales and rentals ::)

[MelZ]

CIB:

We have been renting our Courtyard Villa in Hadley using Property Management since late March of 2008. We are very happy with the Property Management team and the rentals to date. We visited TV in June and the house have virtually no wear and tear.

Our premise was to minimize negative cash flow until we retire and we are happily achieving that. Since we are still working I anticipate a nice tax write off for 2008 which will offset most of the negative cash flow since we missed all of the high season.

Previous poster gave a excellent synopsis of positive for using the system with TV property mgmt. I have friends who do their own rentals and have had much worse results ( slobs basically) with longer term rentals.

Hope this helps

[Peachie]

Oooohh, so much good information provided in this landlord forum. Thank you for explaining your experiences, all I need now is the pill I can take that will make me want to share our nest. Sigh, I'd better find that pill if we continue to maintain two homes and totally pick up the tab for our health insurance for the next 4-5 years. ::)

[784caroline]

wlou
Are you certain about using your property for 14 days for "Maintenance"? Its my understanding that you can use your property for 14 days outright for "personal" use but you could still make "maintenace trips within reason and still be under the IRS rules.

[Pookirgirl]

We did own a Courtyard villa there a few years back which we purchased specifically as an investment property. Well, as first time investors, we were ignorant to a few things. First of all, we purchased a 2 BR, 1 Bath home. Big mistake. The one bath really put the "kabotches" on the rental. Everyone wants 2 baths it seems. So, the rental history was NOT good. We had it in TV property management hands and they get 15% right off the bat. It also seemed somewhat ridiculous that our house was sitting empty most of the time and when we wanted to come for a visit, we had to pay them the percentage!
TV property management team does a good job as watchdogs but there are many private people there in TV that will do the same thing for a lot less money. Ask around!
Also, if you do decide to go with TV PM, they give you a very specific list of things your home MUST have before they will rent it out for you.

[wlou]

Tax advisor ( from 2 years ago!) said, 14 days personal use, then a small min for Maint.., BUT , he did say the IRS was VERY sticky with that..he said if you are found to have used the home more than 14 days in a calendar year, the IRS would ask for all kinds of receipts and they are extremely strict with that.Also said, be very careful if a friend, or non business person was your caretaker, questionable in their eyes....So, first hand knowldge? I have none, just what this fella told us, .. so if anyone out there knows FIRSTHAND, lets hear from ya! There must be some CPA'S on this board, active or retired...

[MelZ]

Wlou

Prior to putting my home in the property management program I spoke with my CPA and I also conferred with a friend who own rental properties in the Atlanta area. If I didn't know better I would have thought you talked to them because both gave me the same advice not to exceed 14 days or 10% of rental days per year. They also suggested I keep good records of expenditures for the Schedule C.

[livsea2]

We did own a Courtyard villa there a few years back which we purchased specifically as an investment property. Well, as first time investors, we were ignorant to a few things. First of all, we purchased a 2 BR, 1 Bath home. Big mistake. The one bath really put the "kabotches" on the rental. Everyone wants 2 baths it seems. So, the rental history was NOT good. We had it in TV property management hands and they get 15% right off the bat. It also seemed somewhat ridiculous that our house was sitting empty most of the time and when we wanted to come for a visit, we had to pay them the percentage!
TV property management team does a good job as watchdogs but there are many private people there in TV that will do the same thing for a lot less money. Ask around!
Also, if you do decide to go with TV PM, they give you a very specific list of things your home MUST have before they will rent it out for you.





I am curious, is there anything out of the ordinary that they require you MUST have? Or pretty much things you would need anyway to provide renters? For instance, the place I rented they had only one 19" TV in the entire house. In this day and age I think that's absurd. Also no music at all, no radio, CD player or even phonograph player (not that I would have anything to play on it!) Those type things I think should be provided but I digress back to the point. What were the types of "must haves" please. Thanks.

[784caroline]

Mlou
I agree with the 14 day rule BUT the way you stated it earlier yuo said it was for maintenance. Its 14 days for personal use. I you need additional maintenance periods and you can demonstrate the need (within reason) you can use it.

[Pookirgirl]

Livsea2..I did make an error in my post. I said TV property management charged you 15%... when it was actually 18%! It might even be more now. That was a few years ago.
They make quite an extensive list that they require you have in your rental home. I don't remember exactly but when we purchased the home, it was turn key and a former model home. We still spent a thousand dollars putting required items into it. It did require one television but we did purchase one for the master BR as well. They asked for an alarm clock for each bedroom so we purchased alarm/radio clocks. You did have to supply telephone service but they strongly suggested that it be hooked up just for local calls. We had an electric garage door opener installed. Rugs were required in front of each and every door opening going outside. There is a requirement of a minimum of drinking glasses, wine glasses, dishes, plates, pots, pans etc. Appliances required were toaster, iron and ironing board,flashlight. Also, we had to have emergency lighting installed. Bathrooms had to have a minimum of ...I think...6 towels, wash cloths,hand towels. The list goes on. I think it was two pages. We did use another property manager (privately) and she only charged us 10% per rental and when we came down to stay, we did not have to pay anything. Other things to consider is: you must have lawn service as well as bug protection. It does add up. We were also charged for cleaning services between tenants!

[CTgolfer]

As an absentee landlord, where do you store your personal belongings, such as clothing, so that you don't have to bring down as much when using your home.

[Belle]

For info on IRS requirements for rental property see Pub 527, found at IRS.Gov under publications. Property is not considered rental if used for personal use more than the greater of 14 days or 10% of total days it is rented to others at fair rental price. There are many expenses you may deduct, such as expenses to and from rental to collect rent, manage, maintain property. I suggest you keep a diary. The IRS likes that. However, don't use the same ink so that it looks like you put all the info in at one time. Hope this helps with IRS question.

[MelZ]

If you use TV property management you can not leave any personal items in the house. When we come down we bring everything we need with us.

I use a speadsheet to document my expenses when in the house and keep reciepts for everything related to the stay.

[uujudy]

As an absentee landlord, where do you store your personal belongings, such as clothing, so that you don't have to bring down as much when using your home.


The house we rented last December had a tall rubbermaid lockable cupboard in the garage that the owners used for their personal effects. Since it was locked, I don't know what kinds of personal effects they kept in it. I would probably use it for shoes. I can easily fill a suitcase with nothing but shoes ;)

[wlou]

We also do not keep personal items at our home. Also, as far as stocking what TV prop. manager wanted, I actually liked having the list! As crazy as that may sound..Here is why..We took the list they gave us and purchased everything and now our house is 100% livable when we go down with linens, etc..As long as we pay the 20% fee and cleaning fee like I stated , we can come and enjoy our home as much as we like, anytime we want, and get to deduct all the expenses related to it! I personally think it is a big win win...As far as the house staying empty..... From what I can tell so far, the only empty months appear to be July and maybe parts of August,..July ( so far ) is the only month we have not had some sort of tenant..Like I stated earlier, most tenants are only 4-7 day tenants and we Love that..No wear and tear, they mostly eat out...

[SteveFromNY]

I really liked having the list too. It certainly made the house very livable when i used it. We had everything - if it was on the list. Property Management did a great job of taking care of the place too.

We also installed a lockable cabinet in the garage (the intent was to make folks feel like they were "home" so TVPM wouldn't allow a locked closet or room). We kept things like soap and other toiletries mostly. We also stored lots of stuff in the attic - suitcases with our clothes as a for instance. We had to unload the attic and load it again every time we visited, but it was better than carrying it back and forth.

[downeaster]

Be carefull what you store in the attic, Steve, it gets real hot up there.

DC

[SteveFromNY]

Be carefull what you store in the attic, Steve, it gets real hot up there.

DC


Thanks for the tip. We have mostly dishes and clothes in suitcases and Christmas decorations.
What should I avoid storing up there?

[Lil Dancer]

We rented our villa out ourselves, and never had any " problem" tenants. We made it clear that it was for 2 people only - more people and we charged extra. The people who can afford the rents in TV are retired, not likely to do a lot of cooking for 1 month stay. They were required to notify us if they were going to have more people staying,to get our approval. And of course, we said no smoking, no pets. And we had a security deposit, renters seem to realize that its a person's home and treat it as such.

[uujudy]

Thanks for the tip. We have mostly dishes and clothes in suitcases and Christmas decorations.
What should I avoid storing up there?


Ice Cream.

[livsea2]

Ice Cream.




Any particular flavor more or less affected by attic storage? ;)

[another Linda]

We bought a CYV north of 466 and TV Property Management refused to take it -- too old (built in 1993)! They are only interested in putting visiting prospects in places closer to where the new homes are selling. Too bad because it is a wonderful place.

However, we have had no trouble renting it when we want by advertising on 3 internet sites. I've hired Redwitch as my go-to person on the spot. Her rates are lots more reasonable than whatever percentage any management company takes. And she figures out what we need and makes it happen. I don't know of any management company that would do all that she does.

I used the TV list of what they wanted their rentals to have and bought all that stuff. I found it very helpful and not at all unreasonable. As we stay there I add other things as I want or need them. (Granite counter tops are my latest "need" -- October they go in! And I will keep the cotton in my ears until my husband quites asking why.)

We have had no "problem renters" in a little over a year (or nothing that Red couldn't handle -- one story to tell) and it has stayed rented for most of the time we weren't using it. We don't store personal items there although we did leave our bikes and extra golf clubs. Our renters are free to use them.

We are not claiming it as a business expense because we knew we wanted to use it more than the IRS regs would allow. Even without the deductions, all our costs are covered and then some, and we get to spend time there rent free. We don't have a mortgage, but as others have said, the rental wouldn't begin to pay that.

I am very glad we bought even though we are still working. TV is such a beautiful, fun place and we adore our villa. As an investment my guess is that it will do at least as well as a bond and at worst it won't lose money. But really, we didn't buy it as an investment.

If you can swing it CIB, I'd say go for it!

[barb1191]

Livsea2..I did make an error in my post. I said TV property management charged you 15%... when it was actually 18%! It might even be more now. That was a few years ago.
They make quite an extensive list that they require you have in your rental home. I don't remember exactly but when we purchased the home, it was turn key and a former model home. We still spent a thousand dollars putting required items into it. It did require one television but we did purchase one for the master BR as well. They asked for an alarm clock for each bedroom so we purchased alarm/radio clocks. You did have to supply telephone service but they strongly suggested that it be hooked up just for local calls. We had an electric garage door opener installed. Rugs were required in front of each and every door opening going outside. There is a requirement of a minimum of drinking glasses, wine glasses, dishes, plates, pots, pans etc. Appliances required were toaster, iron and ironing board,flashlight. Also, we had to have emergency lighting installed. Bathrooms had to have a minimum of ...I think...6 towels, wash cloths,hand towels. The list goes on. I think it was two pages. We did use another property manager (privately) and she only charged us 10% per rental and when we came down to stay, we did not have to pay anything. Other things to consider is: you must have lawn service as well as bug protection. It does add up. We were also charged for cleaning services between tenants!


Could you please give us the name and number of your rental management service that you are pleased with?

[graciegirl]

Oooohh, so much good information provided in this landlord forum. Thank you for explaining your experiences, all I need now is the pill I can take that will make me want to share our nest. Sigh, I'd better find that pill if we continue to maintain two homes and totally pick up the tab for our health insurance for the next 4-5 years. ::)

Boy Peachie. I agree with you on this too. Are we twins separated at birth? Maybe I was spoiled and not forced to share my toys but I would have a REAL problem somehow with having strangers live in my house. Even if they were nice strangers, and former girl scouts. ("cleaner than you found it")

[ConeyIsBabe]

Since I originally posted this topic two months ago, I was toying with the idea of buying now - as an investment and future home - BUT then IT HAPPENED ......... the economy took a dump :cus: I took my FSBO sign down, and, I just don't think I want to put myself out on a financial limb at this time - just dunno :confused:


Any thoughts - ? :undecided:

[kit9240]

CIB: I'm in the same boat as you are. I'm a year away from retirement and I have been watching the properties in TV and there are some good deals now, but with what happened this week, prices could come down even further. Having 2 mortgages and worrying about a rental would cause many sleepless nites for me, so I'm going to wait it out. Also, whatever I sell my place for here will determine what I can afford in TV. Let's hope things will improve in 1-2 yrs.

Kathy

[bargee]

With the strong rumor that TV is fast tracking the building of rentals in LSL,I would be very cautious about buying a house for investment purposes only, especially if your cash flow is marginal.You can bet that if those are in fact rentals and your house is listed with TV you will end up in the back of the bus.

[ijusluvit]

Back to the original question. I think the best way to successfully rent a TV property is to have a good manager. Don't assume Villages Prop. Mgt. will do it. They are fussy about which properties are included in their program and their fees and demands are the greatest. Until we fired them they not only bombarded us with every rule imaginable, but were not renting our place as frequently as we would have liked. We now have a fabulous private manager. Everything works, we are in complete control and we pay a 15% commission. Unfortunately, our manager cannot take on more properties at this time. If you're really depending on some rental income, find a good manager before you buy. Don't be afraid to rent even though your place is nicely furnished. TV guests seem to be the most considerate I've ever seen. And the last rule of thumb: the fancier your place is, the more you provide for renters, the more business and repeat business you will get, regardless if you charge higher rental rates. Good luck. This is a good time to go for it!

[kandj]

Hi,

Where can I find this "list" of requirements for renting? It might make my first round of "the move" much easier. That way I would be assured that I have packed at least the minimum needed. I am sure I will have packed and sent way more than needed, but this would help, for sure.

Kim

[misky]

I bought a 3 bed-2 bath ranch in June in Woodbury. I didn't want to furnish it and rent for the seasons. So I used TV Property Management. They found a full time renter for me in August. They furnished the place and pay all utilities. The rent is $1,300/mo. Prop Mgmt takes 15%. Considering my taxes, ins, pest and all other fees, I will be in positive cash flow (I don't have a mortgage). Prop Mgmt takes care of all minor repairs and bills me.

So, so far so good.