Lightning caused house fires

[GMIJFI]

Just curious. Is there any reliable data on what percentage of homes that suffered damage from fires caused by a lightning strikes had lightning rods installed?

[manaboutown]

Probably just a few but no doubt many homes have experienced electrical outages and damage to electronics and appliances from nearby lightning strikes.

[Xcuse]

Just curious. Is there any reliable data on what percentage of homes that suffered damage from fires caused by a lightning strikes had lightning rods installed?
Couldn't find statistics but this presentation by the Villages Computer Club stated " it has been empirically
proven that a lightning protection system installed in
full conformance to
NFPA
-
780
requirements
DOES
prevent damage to structures."

[David Moon]

Seeing firsthand a fire from lightening a few months back, even if it decreases the odds of fire exponentially, it's a good thing to have.

[2BNTV]

To me, it's more of a peace of mind thing to me. I feel better knowing I did all I could to prevent damage than to wonder what might have been.

[Lightning]

Just curious. Is there any reliable data on what percentage of homes that suffered damage from fires caused by a lightning strikes had lightning rods installed?
Last Saturday night a home in Miona Shores was stuck and the ensuing fire caused it to be uninhabitable. This is the fourth home this year and the seventh in the last 15 months that has received extensive damage due to a direct lightning strike. None had a lightning protection system (LPS) commonly called lightning rods. We have reports now from 14 homeowners with a LPS who have been struck without any structural damage or fire. To learn about LPS and related lightning issues consider enrolling in the Lifelong Learning College class,, Lightning Tips for Villagers, on August 27th or October 1st.

[jimbo2012]

Anyone living in the "Lightning capital of the world" is remiss not to have a lightning protection system.

http://kpho.images.worldnow.com/images/19014128_BG1.jpg

[twoplanekid]

One question from an owner of a house south of 466A with no gas lines in the attic, have any of the new houses with no gas to the house had fires caused by lightning?

[outlaw]

One question from an owner of a house south of 466A with no gas lines in the attic, have any of the new houses with no gas to the house had fires caused by lightning?

The gas lines are not causing the fires. That would likely cause an explosion!

[Dan9871]

There was a Premiere with a 5 car garage near me in Pinellas last Sept?? that was totaled by a lightning caused fire. No one hurt but the house had to be rebuilt.


One question from an owner of a house south of 466A with no gas lines in the attic, have any of the new houses with no gas to the house had fires caused by lightning?

[Inexes@aol.com]

CSST is not able to withstand the electrical charge dissipated by lightning strikes due to its corrugated design and thin walls, according to reports. As a result, in the event that CSST becomes energized due to a direct or indirect lightning strike, the current will “arc” or jump across a gap to a less resistant pathway, such as nearby metal piping, in an attempt to reach the ground. Although the arc will only last a fraction of a second, it has been alleged that the temperature of the event is hot enough to melt and penetrate the thin walls of the CSST. If the gas line melts or is punctured, the gas inside can escape and cause a fire.

Our attorneys believe that the thin walls of CSST put properties at risk for fire-related damage. It is estimated that the walls of CSST measure at a mere .011 inches, 10 times thinner than the walls of traditional black iron pipes. It has been alleged that unlike CSST, the walls of traditional black iron pipes are generally thick enough to withstand the energy produced during a lightning strike. CSST was developed in the early 1980s in Japan and was introduced into the U.S. market as an easier-to-install alternative to black iron pipes in the 1990s.

- See more at: CSST Lawsuits | CSST Lightning Fires and Failures | Morgan & Morgan (http://www.forthepeople.com/class-action-lawyers/csst-lawsuits/#sthash.Oy6itl2N.dpuf)

[Lightning]

One question from an owner of a house south of 466A with no gas lines in the attic, have any of the new houses with no gas to the house had fires caused by lightning?

Of the seven homes struck by lightning in the last 15 months 4 had gas and 3 were all electric homes. Lightning is random and unpredictable.

[twoplanekid]

Of the seven homes struck by lightning in the last 15 months 4 had gas and 3 were all electric homes. Lightning is random and unpredictable.


Thanks for that information.

Would a fire suppression system be a better investment than a lightning protection system? Could a direct hit still start a fire with lightning protection installed?

[Lightning]

Thanks for that information.

Would a fire suppression system be a better investment than a lightning protection system? Could a direct hit still start a fire with lightning protection installed?

Theoretically it would be possible to install an automatic fire sprinkler system throughout the home and the attic space. I don't know of cases where it has been done. It would be very expensive. If your concern is with lightning then you may wish to consider a lightning protection system that shuts a direct lightning strike directly to ground without starting a fire.

[rdhdleo]

Update on my experience with lightning rods. Shortly after we moved here 13 years ago the lightning started to freak me out. Stupidly a guy in a truck came around saying he had been installing lighting rods on some of our neighbors homes. Back then there weren't all these resources to find out more into and I was so paranoid, we said ok and had it done for $600. Since then with all these threads on it here and on Facebook I started questioning what we had done. Figuring it probably wasn't to code so today we had A1 Lightning protection come out and check it out. Yep not to code and actually dangerous they way it was done. (I have the gas lines in the attic) We called Triangle which people here have mentioned and I was pout off by the fact they would not come out and talk to us to check our system without charging us $150 to do so! They gave us a quote over trephine no even telling us what exactly they would do! A1 Lightning Protection came out at NO charge and inspected everything. Their quote to put in a new copper system including my birdcage and do proper grounding of everything $1550 less than what Triangle quoted on the phone. A1 said they could bring our current system up to code for $800 but we feel it's worth the extra money to go copper all the way (except for the birdcage which cannot be copper.) Just thought I would let everyone know in case your considering the rods.

[Fanman]

We had A1 lightning Protection install a system on our home. They are a 1st class outfit. We could not be happier with the job they did on our home. Very knowledgable and explained every piece that would be installed. Highly recommend them.

[rdhdleo]

Good to know! I feel we will be going with them. Very thorough in explaining everything they do and cover and how they will do it!. Thanks for letting me know you had a great job done by them :)

[Bosoxfan]

Im hoping my neighbors on both sides of me get lightening rods :)

[rdhdleo]

Im hoping my neighbors on both sides of me get lightening rods :)

Why? You won't be protected. It's a fallacy that they "attract" lightning.

[Bosoxfan]

I'll take my chances . Lightning protection isn't regulated. For all you know you're throwing good money away!

[angiefox10]

ThE gentleman who spoke to our village about lighting protection told us that no home that had burned from lighting had rods. To that point. The night the home burned in Bridgeport of Lake Miona, there was another home that got hit by lightning. My girlfriend posted on FB their home got hit that's night. She had rods. He husband was in the room next to the rods. He heard the power go down the wires. No one heard about that home. It didn't burn down.

I have rods

[ajbrown]

Update on my experience with lightning rods. Shortly after we moved here 13 years ago the lightning started to freak me out. Stupidly a guy in a truck came around saying he had been installing lighting rods on some of our neighbors homes. Back then there weren't all these resources to find out more into and I was so paranoid, we said ok and had it done for $600. Since then with all these threads on it here and on Facebook I started questioning what we had done. Figuring it probably wasn't to code so today we had A1 Lightning protection come out and check it out. Yep not to code and actually dangerous they way it was done. (I have the gas lines in the attic) We called Triangle which people here have mentioned and I was pout off by the fact they would not come out and talk to us to check our system without charging us $150 to do so! They gave us a quote over trephine no even telling us what exactly they would do! A1 Lightning Protection came out at NO charge and inspected everything. Their quote to put in a new copper system including my birdcage and do proper grounding of everything $1550 less than what Triangle quoted on the phone. A1 said they could bring our current system up to code for $800 but we feel it's worth the extra money to go copper all the way (except for the birdcage which cannot be copper.) Just thought I would let everyone know in case your considering the rods.

Interesting. I had quotes from both of those companies. It was just the opposite of what you found. A-1: $2050 and Triangle: $1300.

Reasons for higher price:

A-1 uses copper, not aluminum
A-1 must do some extra work as they come through the roof soffit instead of wrapping around gutter.
A-1 has a cost of going to potential customers to explain all this stuff. That meeting helped me understand the system.


Triangle will use copper and the job will be $1600, leaving a difference of $450. Copper or aluminum will do the job based on what I read.

I believe they both do a quality job based on what folks say and their credentials.

[Stdole]

I can tell you this...... 30 yrs in the Fire Fighting business, I have never been on a house fire (that was approved protections system) that had
lightning protection rods with copper. That mean something to me!

Do not dream of ideas "like it draws lightning" or "how could little rods
on the roof save a home" remember lightning can even travel on 22 ga. phone wire without melting it and travel right into your home.

I am not saying it will survive a major direct hit... I can't imagine any system or protection could do this... but are you also sure your Insurance
Co. will cover 100% of everything in your home without any doubts.. of course not... but better than anything else going.. do your homework as you would on your insurance companies... I would say the rods are better
for the costs than the money in the banks (no protection there for lightning that I am aware)

[Xcuse]

I'll take my chances . Lightning protection isn't regulated. For all you know you're throwing good money away!

It is not regulated by a government agency, but there are recognized standards:
UL 96/96A - Standards For Safety “Installation Requirements for Lightning Protection Systems.
NFPA 780 - Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems
LPI 175 - Standard of Practice for the Design - Installation - Inspection of Lightning Protection Systems

[Lightning]

I can tell you this...... 30 yrs in the Fire Fighting business, I have never been on a house fire (that was approved protections system) that had
lightning protection rods with copper. That mean something to me!

Do not dream of ideas "like it draws lightning" or "how could little rods
on the roof save a home" remember lightning can even travel on 22 ga. phone wire without melting it and travel right into your home.

I am not saying it will survive a major direct hit... I can't imagine any system or protection could do this... but are you also sure your Insurance
Co. will cover 100% of everything in your home without any doubts.. of course not... but better than anything else going.. do your homework as you would on your insurance companies... I would say the rods are better
for the costs than the money in the banks (no protection there for lightning that I am aware)
You may wish to see Dr. Martin Uman's book, The Art & Science of Lightning Protection, that can be found in The Villages Belvedere Library. Dr. Uman has been studying lightning at the University of Florida for over 40 years. The evidence is clear, lightning protection systems (LPS) do work when they are designed installed and maintained according to National Fire Protection Association-780, Standard for the Installation of Lightning Protection Systems, 2014 edition. This standard has been in existence since 1904 and has been updated 27 times to keep pace with research, technology, and experience. Anyone wishing to do their due diligence should also read NFPA-780, Annex B, Principles of Lightning Protection.

LPS should be installed by firms that are listed by UL and their installers qualified as Master Installer by the Lightning Protection Institute. Be aware that this is a non-regulated business for residential properties and there are a number of firms scamming Villagers with systems that do not meet the aforementioned standard.

[Lightning]

I'll take my chances . Lightning protection isn't regulated. For all you know you're throwing good money away!

See my post this date on this thread regarding LPS. They are used world-wide and have been for over 200 years. If they didn't work why would the developer put them on every pumping station, nearly every building at Sumter Landing, fire headquarters, and many other facilities like the Savannah Center and most of the charter school buildings. Also check all of the larger churches as they all have LPS. Healthcare facilities are mandated to have them by Florida Statute. They are all over OIA and now on all of the new toll booths in the Orlando area.

[ajbrown]

Stuff cut by Alan...

LPS should be installed by firms that are listed by UL and their installers qualified as Master Installer by the Lightning Protection Institute. Be aware that this is a non-regulated business for residential properties and there are a number of firms scamming Villagers with systems that do not meet the aforementioned standard.

It is interesting that one of the highest recommended companies in the area uses a Journeyman Installer. I believe he is an extremely qualified installer, but does not have the piece of paper to be a master.

[jimbo2012]

AJ, it's not rocket science, you can look up the specs to be sure it's done right.

It is a very simple install

Just because someone has a certificate as a certified installer still don't guarantee it's done right.

Moreover, I don't believe a license or certification is required for an installer.

Perhaps "Lightning" can site the section of the code that requires or states otherwise?

[vette]

It's important to understand that roof rods only offer protection from direct hits on the house. Not only do you need the correct number AND size of rods per sq ft: the system must be properly grounded as per your soil conditions. This system does not protect you from lightning surges thru the electric, phone and cable lines. You will need additional systems to protect your home from ground surges and near hits. I strongly suggest you check with your insurance company for their recommendations before you sign any contracts...

[Lightning]

AJ, it's not rocket science, you can look up the specs to be sure it's done right.

It is a very simple install

Just because someone has a certificate as a certified installer still don't guarantee it's done right.

Moreover, I don't believe a license or certification is required for an installer.

Perhaps "Lightning" can site the section of the code that requires or states otherwise?

You are correct there is no licensing of lightning protection system installers (LPS) nor are permits required and there is no follow up inspection by any governmental body. It is a buyer beware marketplace. However, the responsible installers are affiliated with the Lightning Protection Institute (LPI) and Underwriters Laboratories (UL). That is why in our presentations we suggest that anyone considering a LPS only seek bids from firms that are UL listed with the Master Installer designation from LPI. And don't be fooled by installers that tell you they use UL listed components as that is not the same as the firm being listed by UL where their work maybe inspected by a UL engineer.

[tomwed]

One question from an owner of a house south of 466A with no gas lines in the attic, have any of the new houses with no gas to the house had fires caused by lightning?
My neighborhood had 2 guest speakers who were retired, engineers and worked in energy. They were not giving any opinions or advice. They just reported what they know about lightening and electricity. They said 8 out of the last 10 houses in the last 10 years that were struck and burned down had gas lines.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Lightning]

My neighborhood had 2 guest speakers who were retired, engineers and worked in energy. They were not giving any opinions or advice. They just reported what they know about lightening and electricity. They said 8 out of the last 10 houses in the last 10 years that were struck and burned down had gas lines.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

By my count 15 homes have been struck by lightning with ensuing fire to render the home uninhabitable in the last 12 lightning seasons. None had a lightning protection system. We had one in 2013, three in 2014, and four to date in 2015. Three have been all electric homes and 12 had natural gas. In no case did any report in the public domain connect these fires to natural gas and their piping system. We have had 14 Villagers with a lightning protection systems report that their home was struck by lightning and none had a fire or any structural damage.

[tomwed]

Just looking at 2014 with 55,000 houses the odds are 18,000 to 1.

Overall just about the same amount were struck and protected.

Four times as many gas homes than electric burned down. 12 out of 15

What percentage of homes have protection?
What percentage of village homes have gas?
How many homes protected and struck were gas?

Lightning strikes are random.

[outlaw]

Just looking at 2014 with 55,000 houses the odds are 18,000 to 1.

Overall just about the same amount were struck and protected.

Four times as many gas homes than electric burned down. 12 out of 15

What percentage of homes have protection?
What percentage of village homes have gas?
How many homes protected and struck were gas?

Lightning strikes are random.

How many homes struck were premier models versus designer? Unless there is evidence that the gas ignited, there is no causation, just coincidence.

[tomwed]

How many homes struck were premier models versus designer? Unless there is evidence that the gas ignited, there is no causation, just coincidence.
When two things coincide, I don't always think there must be a reason But when I see statistical anomalies, I usually suspect that something must be going on. That's how troubleshooting works and that's what me and my family does [did?] for a living. In one way or another we are all troubleshooters. For me, it's an old pattern. I'm not trying to sir the pot or cause anxiety. You may be right. It' really not that important to me.

[outlaw]

It could be that most, if not all the homes north of 466 use gas, and all the homes south of 466 or 466A are all electric...so there were more homes with gas that were struck by lightening? Maybe more lightening strikes in the north part of TV.

[David Moon]

So are we saying that homes with gas attract more lightning strikes?

[tomwed]

So are we saying that homes with gas attract more lightning strikes?
I'm not saying that. As was pointed pointed out to me over a 15 year period most of the strikes occurred when almost all of the houses were gas. That's what's good about a conversation and asking questions.

Whenever I have questions about technology, health or science eventually I go to my sons. They always point out when my logic is fuzzy or other information is missing or I never considered. That's the upside of all those years of going to museums, looking at their homework and buying toys that made them think a little.

[David Moon]

I'm not saying that. As was pointed pointed out to me over a 15 year period most of the strikes occurred when almost all of the houses were gas. That's what's good about a conversation and asking questions.

Whenever I have questions about technology, health or science eventually I go to my sons. They always point out when my logic is fuzzy or other information is missing or I never considered. That's the upside of all those years of going to museums, looking at their homework and buying toys that made them think a little.


I'm the neighbor of a woman who recently had her house struck and burned. She's gas, but all of the homes around us are gas too. I'd think it'd be nearly impossible to know if the gas line accelerated the fire in any way without knowing the conditions in the attic before the strike.

[twoplanekid]

Will a direct lightning hit always cause a fire? For those homes that had lightning protection and were hit, how did they know that their houses took a direct hit?

[tomwed]

I'm the neighbor of a woman who recently had her house struck and burned. She's gas, but all of the homes around us are gas too. I'd think it'd be nearly impossible to know if the gas line accelerated the fire in any way without knowing the conditions in the attic before the strike.
I agree, well stated.

[Dan9871]

I had a friend back in MA whose house was hit by lightning, no fire but it punched a small hole near a peak in the roof.

[Lightning]

Will a direct lightning hit always cause a fire? For those homes that had lightning protection and were hit, how did they know that their houses took a direct hit?

Not every direct lightning strike causes a fire. We have had 5 or 6 cases this summer where a home took a direct lightning strike but fortunately for the homeowner there was no ensuing fire. This is a near miss - lightning is not only dangerous, random, but highly unpredictable as well.

We have interviewed over a dozen homeowners with lightning rods that believe they took a direct hit. In one case the homeowner witnessed lightning striking one of the rods on his pool cage, jump to the next rod and was safely shunted to ground without any fire or structural damage to the home. In another case a retired firefighter's home took a direct hit, had the system inspected by his installer who showed him the tip of one rod that took the hit that showed evidence of scorching. Again, no fire nor structural damage.

Here is a quote from the Preface of Dr. Martin Uman's book, The Art & Science of Lightning Protection; "Does the standard lightning protection eliminate the possibility of lightning damage to structures? and the answer is 'almost always.'" Remember safety is never absolute and anything man-made can fail. Lightning protection systems work a very high percentage of the time well into the 90% range.