Sinkhole Inspection?

[Retiring]

If I do decide to spend my retirement at TV, I am more interested in building a new home vs buying an existing home. I would not consider purchasing a lot without a comprehensive sinkhole inspection. I understand these inspections can run $5-10k but that is something I am willing to spend for peace of mind. At this point I don't know how the developer handles this type of pre--purchase request. I realize if the inspection comes back very negative, the lot becomes worthless so he may not permit this type of contingency.

Has anyone had such an inspection, and would you mind sharing your experience? Thanks.

[outahere]

I have not done that type of inspection, but when we purchased our home (new, but already built), we were told that they do not allow any changes/contingencies to be added to the contract. They may have changed in the past two years, but I wouldn't count on it.

[bluedivergirl]

We bought in January, 2015. The real estate market and general practices here are completely different than anywhere else we have purchased.

The don't do contingencies and they don't negotiate. Sometimes they don't build. You purchase what they have already built, or go elsewhere.

Regardless, we purchased and have been here since April ~ quite happily, too.

[JoMar]

They did have a program that you could purchase a lot but would have to build within 90 days and then you are limited to the type of home that fits that lot. They don't modify and the only choices you might have is floor coverings, counter tops and cabinets. We have a friend here that purchased and they built the house and now he is rebuilding the inside to suit him before he moves in. That's the option if you don't like the layout. They do things differently in The Villages.

[Polar Bear]

Odds of finding a sinkhole are slim. Not zero, but slim. And sinkhole inspections are not foolproof. But if one would be found, it can usually be "fixed". The lot would not be worthless.

[NYGUY]

To be absolutely clear, The Villages allows no contingencies. After you have bought, you can do as many inspections as you want.

[dewilson58]

With a new home, you can get insurance.

[surgees]

:agree:

I agree with dewilson58... we purchased a new home recently and got the sink-hole insurance.

The others are also very correct... they do things veery differently down here! In our experience it is a very good process and everyone involved is dedicated to making your purchase a quick, well controlled and executued process with your benefit foremost in their mind.

[Sandtrap328]

Remember that there is a huge difference between a sinkhole and the event that captures the media attention called "catastrophic ground collapse".

The sinkhole is a gradual sinking of an area and can be devastating to your house but is a very gradual sinking. Insurance is difficult to get on sinkhole coverage because people were making claims on their house just setteling.

The catastrophic ground collapse is the sudden opening of a large hole and could be many feet deep. These are the ones that swallow a car or something. All Florida homeowners policies cover for those events.

Check with Sandy Manion at Villages Insurance. She is very good at explaining all coverages and exactly what they mean.

As for buying a new home in The Villages, you cannot ask for contingencies or negotiate the price. Check out resale homes!! Lower bond, negotians are possible, add-ons already in place, mature landscapes, and no surprises at what be built close to you.

[CFrance]

Remember that there is a huge difference between a sinkhole and the event that captures the media attention called "catastrophic ground collapse".

The sinkhole is a gradual sinking of an area and can be devastating to your house but is a very gradual sinking. Insurance is difficult to get on sinkhole coverage because people were making claims on their house just setteling.

The catastrophic ground collapse is the sudden opening of a large hole and could be many feet deep. These are the ones that swallow a car or something. All Florida homeowners policies cover for those events.

Check with Sandy Manion at Villages Insurance. She is very good at explaining all coverages and exactly what they mean.

As for buying a new home in The Villages, you cannot ask for contingencies or negotiate the price. Check out resale homes!! Lower bond, negotians are possible, add-ons already in place, mature landscapes, and no surprises at what be built close to you.
And you could probably put a contingency in that the property has to pass a sinkhole/catastrophic ground collapse inspection. Although you won't be able to get insurance against sinkholes on an older home.

[Polar Bear]

Lots of good info in this thread. But one minor clarification...

A sink hole is basically the end result of catastrophic ground collapse. A sink hole can form gradually or suddenly. Either way, it is still a sink hole.

[jnieman]

This may be of help. What is the difference between "Sinkhole" and "Catastrophic Ground Collapse" (http://www.onesourceinsurancesolutions.com/blog/what_is_the_difference_between_sinkhole_and_catast rophic_ground_collapse.aspx)

The difference between sinkhole activity and catastrophic ground collapse

[Retiring]

The sister of a close friend had a sinkhole (Orlando suburb), swallowed a swimming pool and corner of the house. It was instantaneous and deep. Had the collapse been below her bedroom or one of the kids bedroom�

I haven�t spoke to anyone at TV sales office, but it looks like I will not be moving to TV if no pre-purchase testing permitted. I simply cannot buy ANY lot in central FL without a sinkhole test. This really isn�t about insurance, it�s about not having to sleep with one eye open. I do appreciate all the replies. Thanks.

[rjm1cc]

The sister of a close friend had a sinkhole (Orlando suburb), swallowed a swimming pool and corner of the house. It was instantaneous and deep. Had the collapse been below her bedroom or one of the kids bedroom�

I haven�t spoke to anyone at TV sales office, but it looks like I will not be moving to TV if no pre-purchase testing permitted. I simply cannot buy ANY lot in central FL without a sinkhole test. This really isn�t about insurance, it�s about not having to sleep with one eye open. I do appreciate all the replies. Thanks.Take a look at On Top of The World(Ocala). Best I can tell they test the building lots before they build. Not sure what the test tell them but you could call the sales office and ask. When you buy sinkhole insurance you have to pay a fee to have the property inspected (?) by the insurance company. Cost is about 150. I would check with a local insurance agent. My guess is the inspection is superficial and just seeing that there were no sinkhole in the area.

[Retiring]

Just spoke to TV sales office, had several questions answered. Like it was said here in this forum, they do not permit pre-purchase sinkhole testing. Not the very basic $150, or the $10k comprehensive geological survey.

My search for a future retirement community continues. Thanks to all that have replied. No shortage of good people at TV.

[RickeyD]

Just spoke to TV sales office, had several questions answered. Like it was said here in this forum, they do not permit pre-purchase sinkhole testing. Not the very basic $150, or the $10k comprehensive geological survey.

My search for a future retirement community continues. Thanks to all that have replied. No shortage of good people at TV.


I would think the chance of your house being struck with lighting is much greater then collapsing into a sink hole. Central Florida may not be your ideal location.

[Retiring]

I lived in FL from 1979-1989. My home was hit by lightning more than once. The first time it killed my television and the second time we had to have the circuit breaker panel replaced. I never felt it was life threatening due to the way a house is grounded and I was fresh out of high school, we all felt bulletproof back then.

Today it’s a different story, I’m much older. I have to weigh the risks and rewards. What little research I’ve done has been all via internet, I have not spent any time in the library on this issue, but I might next week. Most voids that cause the ground to collapse occur over hundreds to millions of years. The voids that occur quickly due to water eating away the limestone will cause the ground to show settling before a collapse. I’m not concerned about settling, that’s why we have insurance. I’m concerned about the possibility of large, existing, voids that can foreshadow a sudden collapse. I want to test for those large existing voids.

All I asked of TV sales office is to allow me to test the lot (at my expense) before I give them a big check. They said no.

[jnieman]

If they let you do the inspection and it failed then how could they sell it to someone else? They could be possibly be sued if they did.

[RickeyD]

If they let you do the inspection and it failed then how could they sell it to someone else? They could be possibly be sued if they did.


TV sells new homes with previous sink hole issues all the time. They disclose and you decide. Also, they will disclose to any potential buyers homes adjacent to the "sink hole " house . I predict the area being built up now, Pine Hills, will have greater then normal amount of small sinkholes due to it's low lying geography.

[graciegirl]

I lived in FL from 1979-1989. My home was hit by lightning more than once. The first time it killed my television and the second time we had to have the circuit breaker panel replaced. I never felt it was life threatening due to the way a house is grounded and I was fresh out of high school, we all felt bulletproof back then.

Today it’s a different story, I’m much older. I have to weigh the risks and rewards. What little research I’ve done has been all via internet, I have not spent any time in the library on this issue, but I might next week. Most voids that cause the ground to collapse occur over hundreds to millions of years. The voids that occur quickly due to water eating away the limestone will cause the ground to show settling before a collapse. I’m not concerned about settling, that’s why we have insurance. I’m concerned about the possibility of large, existing, voids that can foreshadow a sudden collapse. I want to test for those large existing voids.

All I asked of TV sales office is to allow me to test the lot (at my expense) before I give them a big check. They said no.


And so you have your answer.

[Polar Bear]

I understand your desire to know about the possibility of a sinkhole developing on a lot. But I think it's important for you to know that sinkhole testing, while able to provide some insight to the possibility of a sinkhole in an area, will almost never be conclusive about the likelihood of one developing on a particular lot. Several reliable (imo) resources have referred to sinkhole prediction as being akin to weather prediction. You won't be 100% certain even with testing.

[Happydaz]

The sister of a close friend had a sinkhole (Orlando suburb), swallowed a swimming pool and corner of the house. It was instantaneous and deep. Had the collapse been below her bedroom or one of the kids bedroom�

I haven�t spoke to anyone at TV sales office, but it looks like I will not be moving to TV if no pre-purchase testing permitted. I simply cannot buy ANY lot in central FL without a sinkhole test. This really isn�t about insurance, it�s about not having to sleep with one eye open. I do appreciate all the replies. Thanks.

You have to look at the relative risk of things or you won't venture out of the your house. For example around 35,000 people are killed each year in vehicular accidents. (cars, trucks, and motorcycles) Over a typical lifespan of 75 years, your lifetime risk of being killed in such an accident is about 1 in 130. Yet I am sure you get in a car each day. The odds of having a sink hole are not that high. Other interesting facts are that over a recent twelve year period they looked at average yearly deaths from different animals. On average, each year only 1 person gets killed by a shark, 1 person by a bear, and 1 person by an alligator, yet fear of these animal is very high. Yet 20 people are killed by cows and cattle each year and 28 people are killed by dogs every year and not many of us are afraid of them so the perception of danger is often not correlated to the actual risk. Don't worry about a sink hole. Very, very few people ever get one. Watch out for Fido, Betsy the cow, and the car next to you on the highway! The Villages is a great place to live! You will love it here. I do. Come on down!

[Retiring]

I agree that life is full of risks, but we must not be foolish. In my work I take a Boeing across the ocean several times per month. Sometimes, I get to the airport and find the aircraft has an inoperative component. I have to decide whether or not I want to delay the flight 4 hours to have it fixed or consider the risk to be minimal and press on. It would be outrageous for me to say life is full of risks, these 200 people know that- so let’s go. I can’t go down that path. Once I know there is a problem, I am morally and legally obligated to minimize the risk. In the case of my job, it would be for my passengers and crew. In the case of my home, it would be for me alone. I value my life and safety no less than I value the lives of the people sitting aft of the cockpit door.

Large portions of Lake and Marion Counties are susceptible to “cover-collapse sinkholes” and “develop abruptly” (FL Dept. of Natural Resources words, not mine). Most of Sumter County is on thinly covered limestone, so “solution sinkholes dominate.” Those are the shallow type that develop over time. I would not be too concerned buying an untested lot in Sumter County, at least I would consider it.

There are tests that can tell you what is beneath your home, and your susceptibility (no guarantees) to a deep, sudden sinkhole. Am I wrong in saying it would be foolish to not have those tests performed??? The sense I’m getting from this forum is, life is full of risks so don’t worry about it.

Recently I spoke to the TV sales office and their no pre-purchase testing and ‘take it or leave it’ policies were made quite clear.

Although it is unlikely I’ll purchase in TV, I am still considering the possibility. As I mentioned earlier, I may consider a Sumter County address an acceptable risk. Repairing a settling lot and home is a major inconvenience, even with insurance, but a risk I might be willing to accept to live the active retirement lifestyle TV offers. At this point, and it’s early, I would say I’m 25-30% on my way to TV. Once again thank you all for taking the time to reply and thank you to all those that have sent me private messages.

[tomwed]

Why don't you wait until the hurricane passes next week and rethink it.

[graciegirl]

I agree that life is full of risks, but we must not be foolish. In my work I take a Boeing across the ocean several times per month. Sometimes, I get to the airport and find the aircraft has an inoperative component. I have to decide whether or not I want to delay the flight 4 hours to have it fixed or consider the risk to be minimal and press on. It would be outrageous for me to say life is full of risks, these 200 people know that- so let’s go. I can’t go down that path. Once I know there is a problem, I am morally and legally obligated to minimize the risk. In the case of my job, it would be for my passengers and crew. In the case of my home, it would be for me alone. I value my life and safety no less than I value the lives of the people sitting aft of the cockpit door.

Large portions of Lake and Marion Counties are susceptible to “cover-collapse sinkholes” and “develop abruptly” (FL Dept. of Natural Resources words, not mine). Most of Sumter County is on thinly covered limestone, so “solution sinkholes dominate.” Those are the shallow type that develop over time. I would not be too concerned buying an untested lot in Sumter County, at least I would consider it.

There are tests that can tell you what is beneath your home, and your susceptibility (no guarantees) to a deep, sudden sinkhole. Am I wrong in saying it would be foolish to not have those tests performed??? The sense I’m getting from this forum is, life is full of risks so don’t worry about it.

Recently I spoke to the TV sales office and their no pre-purchase testing and ‘take it or leave it’ policies were made quite clear.

Although it is unlikely I’ll purchase in TV, I am still considering the possibility. As I mentioned earlier, I may consider a Sumter County address an acceptable risk. Repairing a settling lot and home is a major inconvenience, even with insurance, but a risk I might be willing to accept to live the active retirement lifestyle TV offers. At this point, and it’s early, I would say I’m 25-30% on my way to TV. Once again thank you all for taking the time to reply and thank you to all those that have sent me private messages.



You have accurately assessed the situation. Now it is up to you to decide.

The risk is even greater for a sinkhole to develop near Tampa.

The people selling homes here don't have to negotiate anything in order to sell homes here.

I hope you decide to move here. It is so wonderful that you just can't know how great it is until you start" living the dream", as 2BNTV always says.

And I hope that you will never encounter a sinkhole, a hurricane, an earthquake or bad Italian Food no matter where you go.

[Retiring]

Gracie,

As a full-blooded Italian (who grew up in NYC) I consider myself, unapologetically, an Italian food snob. Wherever I end up in retirement, a good slice of pizza is mandatory.

Lack of good Italian food is a deal breaker :-)

[jnieman]

Gracie,

As a full-blooded Italian (who grew up in NYC) I consider myself, unapologetically, an Italian food snob. Wherever I end up in retirement, a good slice of pizza is mandatory.

Lack of good Italian food is a deal breaker :-)

I'm not italian but have eaten some great italian food here. Mostly at my neighbor's house. He is a great italian cook from Boston area. How about you cook and invite your new friends and neighbors over for dinner every now and then. It's a win win situation. You get the great food you are used to and you make new friends in the process.
(there are some good places here, you just have to do your research and I'm sure you will find what you are looking for if you want to eat out)

[NECHFalcon68]

Gracie,

As a full-blooded Italian (who grew up in NYC) I consider myself, unapologetically, an Italian food snob. Wherever I end up in retirement, a good slice of pizza is mandatory.

Lack of good Italian food is a deal breaker :-)

In my world, the best Italian food comes from the kitchen in someone's house....

[rjm1cc]

My observation is that sinkholes pop up more often when you are close to water so I would avoid ponds.

[RickeyD]

Gracie,

As a full-blooded Italian (who grew up in NYC) I consider myself, unapologetically, an Italian food snob. Wherever I end up in retirement, a good slice of pizza is mandatory.

Lack of good Italian food is a deal breaker :-)


A DNA test might prove otherwise thereby allowing you to tolerate Florida Italian food. Even the pizza ! The DNA test is cheaper then a sinkhole test. [emoji6]

[Retiring]

It’s interesting, because my parents are from Italy and I spent much of my childhood in Italy, friends expect me to have a great cooking ability. The fact is I can’t cook at all. My entire childhood consisted of “mom, when is dinner ready.” Actually, this applies to today as well. When I go “home” to see the folks, it’s still “mom, when is dinner ready.”

Since a good pizza is difficult to find anywhere outside the 5 boroughs, I will probably have a backyard pizza oven (if cc&r’s permit). But someone else will have to make the pizza. My ability is limited to putting it in the oven.