Bison Valley residents using The Villages family pools

[kd-dp2000]

I talked to a lady this morning who lives in Bison Valley with her husband and 2 young sons. Her parents live in The Villages. Her mother got them a year-long pass (free !) for relatives who live in the tri-county area. They are able to use any of the family pools.
Now...these Bison Valley residents pay NO amenities for using facilities within TV. They also can golf at guest rates. What is up with this???? Does anyone know? I will definitely be calling the appropriate department to find out why this is allowed. I don't see anything fair about this. Do any of you have a take on this???

[chuckinca]

Bison Valley isn't on either google maps or yahoo maps and not in wikipedia - - -

[samhass]

This does happen. I was at OB pool last year and met a young local couple from outside TV that had passes.

[graciegirl]

I talked to a lady this morning who lives in Bison Valley with her husband and 2 young sons. Her parents live in The Villages. Her mother got them a year-long pass (free !) for relatives who live in the tri-county area. They are able to use any of the family pools.
Now...these Bison Valley residents pay NO amenities for using facilities within TV. They also can golf at guest rates. What is up with this???? Does anyone know? I will definitely be calling the appropriate department to find out why this is allowed. I don't see anything fair about this. Do any of you have a take on this???


Doesn't sound fair to me. When you find out please share with the rest of us.

[sandybill2]

My neighbor just happened to bring over the current guest ID information this morning. There is apparently a focus group going over these. It states "In-area guest ID cards: Children & spouses, grandchildren & spouses and great-grandchildren who reside in the Tri-County area--Lake, Marion, and Sumter. Age - 10 and above issued an In-Area Guest ID card. Sponsoring RESIDENT MUST ACCOMPANY GUEST to all facilities. In-Area Guest ID is active for 1 year from the issue date. May submit a new application after year has expired. Average number of In-area Guest ID's issued monthly--123. Active as of July 3, 2008--1,358. Apparently there are those who are complaining that they don't have area children or grandchildren but do have brothers, sisters, etc., and they don't think it is fair that they cannot get in-area guest passes for them. You know the Bison Valley residents will be using our golf cart paths--which we have and are paying for---to get to the area stores, town squares, etc. I am not a selfish person but this doesn't seem exactly fair to me.

[twynsmom]

:edit: Sounds like POA needs to be advised of this problem. Let us know what you find out after your phone calls.

[SteveFromNY]

Sounds like a bit of a quandry....
They built no amenities specifically for them, so there'd be some legitimate squawking by the Bison Valley residents if they charged them an amenity fee, yet unless they pay an amenity fee, it doesn't seem fair they should get the use of the amenities in the rest of TV.

[yorkmaine]

Where is Bison Valley?

[villager99]

we really have two separate issues here.
in area guest passes are not unique to bison valley or the oak meadows housing section in back of the fiesta bowl but the villages built golf cart access trails are.
i assume it was a marketing tactic of the developer andi have always wondered why the acess trails goes un challenged.

[Taltarzac]

Bison Valley isn't on either google maps or yahoo maps and not in wikipedia - - -


Bison Valley is about 500 feet northwest from Crispers in Southern Trace but across from CR101 and north of Woodridge Drive. Just across from the western part of Summerhill.

[Barefoot]

Bison Valley is a new subdivision on CR 101 North of 466, which allows families.

I thought the pools and golf courses were for Villagers and their guests with temporary passes. I guess I'm naive. I've never heard of year-long Tri-county Guest Cards. Not something The Villages brags about to newbies.

[Taltarzac]

Where is Bison Valley?


Kitty corner (northwest or at 10 o'clock) to New Covenant United Methodist Church. http://www.mapquest.com/maps?zipcode=32162&cat=new+covenant+methodist+church#a/search/l:::the+Villages:FL:32162:US:28.9277:-81.9994:zip:Sumter+County/m::12:28.929592:-82.00696:0::/so:New+Covenant+Methodist+Church:::d::25:::::/e

[chuckinca]

Bison Valley is a new subdivision on CR 101 North of 466, which allows families.

I thought the pools and golf courses were for Villagers and their guests with temporary passes. I guess I'm naive. I've never heard of year-long Tri-county Guest Cards. Not something The Villages brags about to newbies.





My daughter and her family used to have annual guest passes to visit my 80something mother. For years, they would drive about 45 miles one way twice a month or more, holidays etc to visit her. They live out of the tri county area and a couple years ago the policy was changed and because they were out of area they couldn't get the annual passes renewed. They could still get passes but only for short durations and my mom had to make a trip to Paradise Center to get them each time they came - a pain in the buttocks. When she was sick, they couldn't get passes because she was unable to get them and sign for them.

[Barefoot]

sandybill2....thanks for the info from the focus group this morning. Any idea how to contact that focus group? We should all express our concern about this to them.

Good idea Golfer.

[barb1191]

Think we all need to pitch in and right this wrong. It sure is an awakening!!

We're in MA for awhile but will do whatever we can to write or call or whatever.

Keep this alive.....needs immediate attention. Think we all agree on this, yes?

barb

[Skip]

Person to complain to is Janet Tutt, of the CDD. (And complain like hell!)

Another instance of "You have to pay for it - but I'll let in anyone I want."

Skip

[Cassie325]

OK....so this is what I know...and I promise not to get on my soapbox! The annual guest passes have been around FOREVER....not anything new....there are specific rules for them...

The other part is that Bison Valley is not a NEW concept here....there are two other "family villages" and they have been around for a long time. They are for employees of the villages...but there are many people that are living there that do not work in TV's...there really are no rules. There are many new apartment, condo and housing complexes going up all over. If you read the paper or listen to the radio...both Villages owned and operated...you will hear or see commercials for The Villages of Parkwood....specifically advertised to families who want to live closer to grandma and grandpa....so they can play golf together all the time....etc etc etc....

Atleast The Villages of PArkwood are going to build their own amenities....this is not owned by The Villages....those family communites owned by TV's have NO amenities...so ofcourse they are going to use the ones available if they can.....

This is NOT NEW INFORMATION!!! IT IS JUST A LITTLE MORE OUT IN THE OPEN....THE MORE RESIDENTS THAT MOVE HERE....THE MORE SERVICES NEEDED...THE MORE EMPLOYEES THAT NEED TO LIVE CLOSE BY......

OK....so I guess I got on my soapbox.....perhaps the annual pass should have a fee attached....I would pay it but thankfully....I already pay my fees......

But here is my question for everyone.....

If there was a fee associated to the annual pass....and people paid the fee yearly....would you stop complaining about kids and families using the family pools and paying guest fees?????????? Just wondering?

[`willy]

originally you couldn't get a guest pass for someone who lived in the Tri county area but
rumor has it . People who worked for and lived in the Villages used their influence to change the regulation to benefit their families who lived near by.

Willy

[Peachie]

Mariab, wouldn't it work better to have pools in the areas of the family homes outside the limits of The Villages rather than using The Villages facilities? I think the problem is density. There only are so many pools and if they are opened up to everyone outside The Villages that qualifies to use them, the residents may not enjoy the pools as much. It seems that parents and grandparents who don't have children living right in the area are penalized. Our children can only come for a short period of time and use the facilities.I am open to others take on this situation, perhaps I'm missing something in my rationalizing...

[Cassie325]

Mariab, wouldn't it work better to have pools in the areas of the family homes outside the limits of The Villages rather than using The Villages facilities? I think the problem is density. There only are so many pools and if they are opened up to everyone outside The Villages that qualifies to use them, the residents may not enjoy the pools as much. It seems that parents and grandparents who don't have children living right in the area are penalized. Our children can only come for a short period of time and use the facilities.I open to others take on this situation, perhaps I'm missing something in my rationalizing...


Peachie...I do not disagree....TV's should build atleast one pool for the family villages....however I agree that the 30 day rule is a little extreme...they should look at the vacation times for schools and allow that to be the amount of days...

I also don't think that parents and grandparents that have kids far away will have them visit more then 30 days a year.....would you have them here a little more than 30 days if you could? Guests that are over 19 can come as often as possible....it's the kids that can't be here more than 30 days....

I will say that most of the apartment complexes/condo complexes/housing complexes have their own amenities for their families.....just not TV's family housing....

I own inside and outside TV's so I know I pay my dues....but have amenities at both places....if Bison Valley had offered it's own amenities I would have bought there...I was ready to pay cash for a gorgeous house...but they offered NO amenities to us...so I went elsewhere...TV's are loosing money because they don't do this....not everyone has family inside.

NOW...If TV's are offering guest passes to families that live in the family villages and they do not have family that are truly Villages residents....then that is wrong....

[villager99]

when myfamily lived in orlando one year i was able to get 30 day guest passes multiple times.
i don't believe there is currently a limit on the number of days guests can use the village pools. you could renew the guest passes every 30 days and thus swim daily all year.

[Cassie325]

Doesn't surprise me....it is very easy to get Guest Passes....I dont think anyone really keeps track of who is who....sorry to say.....it is just like the fact that we have security gates and people that run them and keys to get in....BUT just about anyone can get through as a visitor....there really is not anyone who keeps track.

We visited a gated community in Lake MAry recently. We could not get in unless the guard had our name from the resident we were visiting...and giving all ID's of people over 18 in the car!!!!!!!! If only....perhaps I should work for TV's and make things happen!

[barb1191]

If there was a fee associated to the annual pass....and people paid the fee yearly....would you stop complaining about kids and families using the family pools and paying guest fees?????????? Just wondering?


I don't feel that we, as residents, gain anything by charging a guest fee. The developer gains monetarily, however, it still remains that the facilities are being used by non-residents. Should not be so. The facilities were built for residents who pay for this privilege.

I feel that there should be no passes given to anybody for a long period of time, no matter where they live. Guest passes are just that, there should be a time limit as to the guests' stay in TV ....and ONLY during their VISIT with residents.

barb

[redwitch]

My issue would be that they are not accompanied by the TV resident. I really don't mind family members who live nearby being given year-round passes but they should follow the rule that they must be accompanied by a TV resident and TV personnel should see that this rule is enforced.

The rule at present is if you are under 19, you are limited to 30 days per year as a visitor/guest. Those over 19 are free to reside with famly or friends in TV year-round. You can technically purchase a home at any age but must be over 19 to reside in it. If you are a family member of a TV resident and live in the Tri-Counties, you can get an annual pass but must be accompanied by the TV family member.

We are not talking about a tremendous amount of people. We are not talking about every resident of Bison Valley, Parkwoods or Tri-County. We are specifically talking about close family members. If they did not have this rule, most would be banned from almost all recreational facilities or have to pay a higher fee, which is the rule for those living nearby and using our facilities. Would you really want to tell your grandchild s/he could not use the pool while visiting grams for the day because s/he lived too near grams (although that is specifically why your children moved to Sumter County)? Yes, they can use the facilities more than those whose grandchild lives further away but, again, we're talking about a great number. We're not talking about employees. We're not talking about friends, we're talking about family.

What I would like to see implemented is that they must prove they are family members (giving your word shouldn't be good enough). Passes and resident IDs should be consistently checked to ensure that non-TVers are with residents and this should be enforced.

[villager99]

children using guest passes must be accompanied by someone over 19 to use village pools or other facilities.
so the family in bison valley may be in for a surprise.
and i think the 30 day rule mentioned applies to someone under 19 staying overnight in tv not visiting for the day as my orlando family did. at least that's what the guest pass office told me when i asked.back in 2006
i'll bet the guest pass focus group gets prertty confused with all the varing scenarios. if i recall correctly participation in the group was open and annouced in the daily sun at the time it formed.

[gnu]

One more thing to consider before taking the plung into TV ???

[barb1191]

VISITOR being the operative word here. Doesn't necessarily have to be family; guest passes also include friends, as well as family, of residents WHO ARE VISITING WITH RESIDENTS.

Anyone visiting WITH residents (not residing with them) are entitled to "guest" passes. This is not a permanent or long-term pass. Issued ONLY when visiting the residents' premises.

This is what I think that most all assumed was the policy.

[redwitch]

However, anyone residing within 50 (I believe) miles and visiting a TV resident cannot be issued guest passes -- they have to pay separate fees from a guest here. I was told that was why an exception was made for family members residing in the Tri-Counties.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see what the issue is. Even though I rent, part of my rental fee does pay for the amenities.

[barb1191]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see what the issue is. Even though I rent, part of my rental fee does pay for the amenities.


RW...."resident" does not specify whether one is an owner or renter; a resident is a resident is a resident......no difference. You are a resident and as such have all of the perks of an owner, no disputing that.

[drdodge]

I think in area passes are a good thing. I have a daughter and son in law that live in Del Web Spruce Creek and he and I like to play golf together and for him to play in the Villages he has to have in area guest pass. All of you people that are against this, what if you could not have your children visit with you, would you like it. Most of the people that abuse the privilege are Village residents in fact most of the rules that are broken are done by Village residents. In order to get a in area guest pass you are supposed to be a relatives of the resident and be accompanied at all times by resident you are visiting when using Village facilities

drd

[barb1191]

drdodge.....

If you please, would you confirm that relatives only are entitled to "guest" passes? That was not my understanding, as I had visited TV, neither a relative nor resident...as a friend only. Had no problem getting a guest pass. How do you figure?

Now an owner for six years and no problem applying for guest passes for friend and/or family visitors....barb

[Cassie325]

I believe they are referring to the "annual guest pass" is only for certain types of relatives within 50 miles of TV......

[jadebox]

Unlike the regular visitors pass where you can go alone the family pass requires you be with the resident to go to the pools, play golf etc. Children under 19 are still only allowed for 30 days. This can be hard to regulate unless the child is old enough to need a pass.

[Fourpar]

I'm with golfer2000 bigthumbsup:...No year round passes, period!

One big reason for many of us to migrate to The Villages is the ability to NOT be around a bunch of screaming kids. And certainly not be surrounded by same in facilities entirely paid for by residents!

[renielarson]

Fourpar

Excuse me because this has nothing to do with the topic yet I feel the need to speak my piece:

Not to be mean or rude but your comment about "being around screaming kids" rubbed me wrong.

I love children and your comment led me to believe you have none of your own nor grandchildren. If you do, I feel sorry for them based on your comment and inferred attitude.

Again, I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. However, the laughter, yelling, screaming, and idiotic actions of children reminds me of a time I was once young and carefree and enjoyed life without baggage. I enjoy every moment of children's innocent play! Perhaps we can still learn from them at our age.

[chuckinca]

I'm with golfer2000 bigthumbsup:...No year round passes, period!

One big reason for many of us to migrate to The Villages is the ability to NOT be around a bunch of screaming kids. And certainly not be surrounded by same in facilities entirely paid for by residents!



As I mentioned above, my daughter and family had an annual pass to keep my elderly mother company. How in the world do you think that this is a bunch of screaming kids or people using your precious amenities?

And, there are many elderly mothers and fathers in TV and you too will soon be in the same boat, if you get lucky.

What is "UASF (ret)"

[bestmickey]

I talked to a lady this morning who lives in Bison Valley with her husband and 2 young sons. Her parents live in The Villages. Her mother got them a yearlong pass (free !) for relatives who live in the tri-county area. They are able to use any of the family pools.
Now...these Bison Valley residents pay NO amenities for using facilities within TV. They also can golf at guest rates. What is up with this???? Does anyone know? I will definitely be calling the appropriate department to find out why this is allowed. I don't see anything fair about this. Do any of you have a take on this???


While I'm not yet a resident of TV, I'd like to comment on this issue because it will affect me in the future. I prefer that no annual passes be provided to persons living outside TV.

However, IF the developer intends to keep the policy as it currently is, I have a different problem with it. I'm a single woman who may have a long-term "boyfriend" (I dislike that term for people in my age bracket) who lives nearby, but outside of TV. While not "family", I feel I too should be allowed to have my "boyfriend" obtain an annual pass. If this isn't allowed, I would deem it as a form of discrimination against single persons.

Again, I prefer that NO annual passes be allowed. I stand by my other comments as well, however. If other singles feel as I do, this could open Pandora's Box. Those of you already living in TV may want to raise my issue (AP for long-term "boyfriend") to the powers that be so they recognize the issues they may face if they continue to allow AP's. This should give them even more reason to have NO annual passes for "outsiders".

[renielarson]

This is a retirement community.

Yet, are you saying we should be neglected of our "family" who might live close by from using some of the amenities?

My son and family live in Leesburg and because of their proximity to The Villages, I cannot get them a guest pass. From The Villages viewpoint, they live too close.

So, when my hubs and I are here, our son and family cannot join us at the family pool. How do I explain this to my toddler grandson who wants to spend time with us when we're here and also, for me, who wants to play with him in the pool?

[sandybill2]

Brightspot--What county is Leesburg? Is it Lake? If so , if you will read at the top of this forum, I posted the rules for in-area guest ID's. Your family would qualify for one of the in-area passes which are good for 12 months. As noted, now the in-area passes are only for children & spouses, Grandchildren & Spouses and great grandchildren. The issue being raised is why is this fair to those Villagers who don't have children, grandchildren, etc., but have a brother or sister(or boyfriend as noted above) who live in the Tri-County area and they want to be able to Play golf with them, swim with them, etc., etc. I guess it is the issue of where to draw the line. I don't have a problem with tri-county area guests, family using facilities when visiting a Villager but I think they should be issued like those given to the general guests-- not on a 12 month basis. As I noted above, as of July 3, 2008 there are 1,358 active in-area guest ID cards. Call the District Office on Wedgewood Lane and ask how you can voice your opinion concerning this issue.

[renielarson]

Thank you sandybill...I understand now.

[Cassie325]

Bright..sandy is right you can get them each a annual pass...you know the one for the screaming kids....the only difference is that with a regular guest pass a guest can come and go as they please....where ever they want on their own.....with a annual pass...they can ONLY go somewhere if joined by the host resident...

Thank you for all of your wonderful thoughts in this post....love to you!!!

[Taltarzac]

Is this pdf file current on regulations about guest passes here in TV? http://www.thevillages.net/login/RecreationHndbook.pdf

[Cassie325]

Is this pdf file current on regulations about guest passes here in TV? http://www.thevillages.net/login/RecreationHndbook.pdf


Well here you have it!!! Thanks Taltarzac!!!

Guests, children and grandchildren who reside in Lake, Sumter or Marion counties:
• If your guest resides in Lake, Sumter or Marion county, they are excluded from using The Villages Recreation
facilities, however, they may visit with you in your home and enjoy The Villages public facilities.
• If your child or grandchild resides in Lake, Sumter or Marion County, you may obtain a Guest “In Area” ID
Card for them at any of the Regional Recreational Centers. Cards are valid for one year from date of issuance.
Residents must accompany these child(ren) or grandchild(ren) to all recreational facilities.

[drdodge]

To Barb1191

To get a in Area guest pass you have to be a relative and you have to be with them at all times to use any facilities.It is renewable at the end of each year

drd

[drdodge]

brightspot01

you can get a in area pass for son and family, then he can use our facilities

drd

[blueeagle65]

I also support NO year round passes! :cop:

[barb1191]

Had no idea Guest Pass rules were so convoluted!!

Need to simplify the situation:

No in-area yearly passes.

No charge for passes.

Passes issued to VISITORS only (whether they be family or friends). Issued just for the length of visit.

IMPROVE MONITORING!!!!!!

The amount of passes issued in a month is staggering, as noted in Tal's reference above!!
The only way to resolve the issue is to simplify and implement with effective monitoring.

Analogy: You live in a private residence and have a pool on site. Would you issue guest and/or family passes for an open invitation to your property??? Think NOT. Well, this is our turf here in TV, we pay for it and welcome guests to our turf, however, discretely and not open house and/or continually. Visitation passes ONLY, accompanied by a resident.

[Happy Villager]

Had no idea Guest Pass rules were so convoluted!!

Need to simplify the situation:

No in-area yearly passes.

No charge for passes.

Passes issued to VISITORS only (whether they be family or friends). Issued just for the length of visit.

IMPROVE MONITORING!!!!!!

The amount of passes issued in a month is staggering, as noted in Tal's reference above!!
The only way to resolve the issue is to simplify and implement with effective monitoring.

Analogy: You live in a private residence and have a pool on site. Would you issue guest and/or family passes for an open invitation to your property??? Think NOT. Well, this is our turf here in TV, we pay for it and welcome guests to our turf, however, discretely and not open house and/or continually. Visitation passes ONLY, accompanied by a resident.




Barb1191, you are a voice of reason and I agree with you. I would like to add the guest/family pass should be limited to the 30 days per year. This limit is what we were told when we purchased in 2005. The Villages is our home and we pay for the privilege to use the amenities. I for one do not want to hear of suggesting outsiders pay and then get to use our amenities. Hey if people want to visit their families there is nothing stopping them from visiting them at the other's home. They just want to come to our adult disneyland. Well guess what this isn't a tourist attraction but our home bought and paid for after year's of working for it.

It is getting to the point where The Villages is just another city only we're the suckers paying the bill.

[BETHPAGE BLACK]

I own a home in TV but live in NY..I spend total of 6 weeks in TV and do not rent my home. I pay for ammenities that I barely use.
I would gladly pay a yearly fee for my tri-state grandchildren (and I have them in Marion County) as I think this is fair..However when I do reside there permanently I do not plan on having my grandchildren "visiting" everyday as I do have a life!
I think it is so unfair for all these non residents to use our pools and golf courses and gof cart paths while we are paying for it all.
TV has many people like myself as well as a tremendous amount of "snow birds" who pay and pay and hardly get to use the ammenities.
We are definately in trouble here...Laura

[Barefoot]

Had no idea Guest Pass rules were so convoluted!!
Need to simplify the situation:
Passes issued to VISITORS only (whether they be family or friends). Issued just for the length of visit. IMPROVE MONITORING!!!!!!

Barb, I totally agree. TV clearly needs to simplify the system and improve monitoring. Sounds like it is currently very poorly controlled.


I own a home in TV but live in NY..I spend total of 6 weeks in TV and do not rent my home. I pay for ammenities that I barely use.
I think it is so unfair for all these non residents to use our pools and golf courses and gof cart paths while we are paying for it all.
TV has many people like myself as well as a tremendous amount of "snow birds" who pay and pay and hardly get to use the ammenities.
We are definately in trouble here...Laura


Laura, I am also a snow bird and live in The Villages for six months a year. I pay for amenities twelve months a year. I understood this when we bought and don't mind at all.

But I do believe amenities should be for the use of residents only and short-term visitors.

[The Great Fumar]

Remember what we were told when we purchased a home here ???? The Amenities Fees were to maintain the facilities here for our recreation , and visitor passes are for short term visits from family and friends and they are to be escorted...Visits can to be accumulated of up to 30 days a calendar year.......If this doesn't suit your needs then you shouldn't have bought here...
Even little screaming kids should be monitored as they disturb the surrounding homes........
NO EXCEPTIONS

End of story................ IF OUTSIDERS WANT TO PLAY HERE ,LET THEM BUY A HOUSE

[loucard]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few of the most important reasons for moving to the villages for me is, or maybe was, that I would not be bothered with Screaming Kids and teenagers. After reading this string of comments, I am going to reconsider. I already have several friends in The Villages, so I should look at buying a like home for less money outside the gate and use one of the catch 22 rules to use the facilities on site for free. I would like to see the rules, bylaws etc. on these issues before buying now. I will contact my realtor for some help with this issue. And by the way, I have grandchildren that I will travel any distance to see and be around, but I will not bring them to the villages to bother folks next door. So before you bend rules, consider the many that buy in the villages because of the rules. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but thats my opinion on this issue

[Cassie325]

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

This is really getting out of control! LEt's sit back for a minute and think about some common sense information about TV's.

EVERYONE knows that there are children visiting here on a regular basis. If you bought here because you did not want to be around kids and teenagers....well then I think you are mis informed. Children are always here. They are perhaps not living in your back yard every day...but chances are there could be some in your backyard/at a neighbors/down the street/across the road at least 30 days out of every year.

You should also be aware that there is a WHOLE school system here...where children...and teenagers....go to school! Yes here in TV's....but that just means they live nearby and their parents work here. But there are children! Some of them even live in the family villages....GASP.....they even have golf cart access!!!

You should also know that out of the 30 + pools there are here....only a small amount of them are designated as "family pools". So if you do not want children around you when at a pool.....don't go to a family pool. There are many others to choose from.

I think that this thread was started because someone was upset about Bison Valley residents who had grandparents in "TV" were able to utilize the pools and amenities...well that is true with their "annual pass" they are allowed to....but grandma or grandpa MUST be with them. They can not just go at anytime, to anywhere, they want. The resident host must be with them. Atleast you know if there are screaming kids then their is a Villager sitting there allowing it to happen! The guest host can't just be a friend or an aunt....it has to be a grandparent or parent that is the Villages Resident. There are strict rules about this! I actually saw a 14 year old girl told to leave one of the pools as she didn't have her grandparent with her!!! This happened at HH pool last winter! She came back with grandpa!

A regular guest pass....allows someone to go visit anywhere in the villages without their host with them...so families with screaming kids can go off to a family pool all by themselves and make all the noise they want with out the supervision of their resident host.


I am not sure what everyone is really getting all upset about. This has been going on for a long time. You can't just get an annual pass for anyone....it must be a certain kind of relative and you must be with them when they use it.....how many villagers do you know that even have time to spend with their grandkids or kids everyday!!! It is just a convenience for them so they do not have to order a pass every other weekend just to swim with the grandkids for a few hours!!!!

As far as outsiders coming in.......They are all over the place!!! Has anyone been to the squares on the weekends? Has anyone seen the other 55+ communities coming by golf cart into TV's.....do you think that everyone that shops at Walmart or target lives in TV's...no! there are many people that live both inside and out....that use many of the village amenities....this is not a NEW issue...

[Russ_Boston]

It sounds to this outsider that Maria is more of the voice of reason. TV has pools for adults and pools for children guests. We alternatively complain that there aren't enough people around to support the restaurants etc. and then we complain that there are too many people around.

I understand the take that it is the monthly fees that provide this but what is the alternative? No access for anyone? Only 30 days for everyone? Maybe just more monitoring to make sure the current rules are abided by. "If it isn't broke, don't fix it!"

[Barefoot]

As far as outsiders coming in.......They are all over the place!!! Has anyone been to the squares on the weekends? Has anyone seen the other 55+ communities coming by golf cart into TV's.....do you think that everyone that shops at Walmart or target lives in TV's...no! there are many people that live both inside and out....that use many of the village amenities....this is not a NEW issue...

Maria: The Town Squares, the movie theatres, Southern Trace Plaza, Walmart, all of the restaurants except for Katie Belles, are ALL open to the public! No-one disputes that. They are not supported by our amenities fees. They were never intended to be for use of Villagers only.

I believe this thread is about outsiders using Village amenitites for free such as pools and golf courses, which are supported by the amenities fees that Villages residents pay!

[redwitch]

I totally agree with Mariab. So what if local family members get annual passes. Only those under 19 are limited to 30-day passes. Any other family member/friend who does not live in the Tri-Counties can visit as long as they want and they don't have to pay a fee every 30 days -- they get a guest pass good for the amount of their visit (1 day or 6 months). These guests are free to use the amenities without a resident in tow. Tri-County residents are truly limited in what amenities they can use, even if a family member. Those eligible to get a family member annual pass are restricted far more than other guests -- they have to have their resident host with them at all times.

People seem to be forgetting that the residents are paying for these amenities, for themselves and their guests. If you choose to have a visitor for 6 months, they will have a right to use our amenities at no cost to themselves other than the initial guest pass fee. Some of us will have few, if any, visitors. Some of us will have many. I know of one couple that have guests at least every weekend. It evens out in the long run and I believe that includes those locals who get annual passes (even the ones who do use our facilities on a daily basis).

My gripe is the fact that the rules are not well-enforced. Annual pass guests have been known to use the facilities without their resident host. People have been known to use the amenities without having their ids checked. This, to me, is where the problems occur. TV personnel should see that the rules are enforced. I think it would save a lot of grief and resentment.

[JohnN]

barb1191 :agree:

keep it simple and enforce it,

visitor passes for length of stay only

[Cassie325]

I totally agree with Mariab. So what if local family members get annual passes. Only those under 19 are limited to 30-day passes. Any other family member/friend who does not live in the Tri-Counties can visit as long as they want and they don't have to pay a fee every 30 days -- they get a guest pass good for the amount of their visit (1 day or 6 months). These guests are free to use the amenities without a resident in tow. Tri-County residents are truly limited in what amenities they can use, even if a family member. Those eligible to get a family member annual pass are restricted far more than other guests -- they have to have their resident host with them at all times.

People seem to be forgetting that the residents are paying for these amenities, for themselves and their guests. If you choose to have a visitor for 6 months, they will have a right to use our amenities at no cost to themselves other than the initial guest pass fee. Some of us will have few, if any, visitors. Some of us will have many. I know of one couple that have guests at least every weekend. It evens out in the long run and I believe that includes those locals who get annual passes (even the ones who do use our facilities on a daily basis).

My gripe is the fact that the rules are not well-enforced. Annual pass guests have been known to use the facilities without their resident host. People have been known to use the amenities without having their ids checked. This, to me, is where the problems occur. TV personnel should see that the rules are enforced. I think it would save a lot of grief and resentment.


;D Ok only because I am so emotional and because I love to have the last word.....I say....


GO RED, GO RED, GO RED

[thegreenerside]

I think everyone is missing the point of Bison Valley and use of the amenities. The Villages has these family sections for what I would consider a specific reason. The people that live in these family sections more than likely have a work connection with The Villages whether it be a drywall contractor, the manager of the grocery store, the owner of your favorite ice cream parlor, or maybe a server at one of the restaraunts you all complain about.

I personally feel that The Villages needs more of these family sections to encourage more people to move to the area to serve you the Village residents. In exchange for these people serving your everyday needs they get to use your cart paths, pools, rec centers, etc.

After reading the post on this topic I felt as if I just read the POA Bulletin. You all have complained about poor service, and when The Villages tries to accommodate and bring in higher quality people you still complain. Get over it .

[Cassie325]

I think everyone is missing the point of Bison Valley and use of the amenities. The Villages has these family sections for what I would consider a specific reason. The people that live in these family sections more than likely have a work connection with The Villages whether it be a drywall contractor, the manager of the grocery store, the owner of your favorite ice cream parlor, or maybe a server at one of the restaraunts you all complain about.

I personally feel that The Villages needs more of these family sections to encourage more people to move to the area to serve you the Village residents. In exchange for these people serving your everyday needs they get to use your cart paths, pools, rec centers, etc.

After reading the post on this topic I felt as if I just read the POA Bulletin. You all have complained about poor service, and when The Villages tries to accommodate and bring in higher quality people you still complain. Get over it .


Nicely said green!

[Peachie]

I haven't decided which way I would like to see this situation go but I'm not impressed with the argument:

"In exchange for these people serving your everyday needs they get to use your cart paths, pools, rec centers, etc."

Why not give Village employees the keys to your house too? IMHO, I wouldn't want the landscapers, painters, Drs., postman or whoever to come and swim in my pool at home but accordingly to that philosophy, if they work for me I must share everything I own and I must provide everything in which they would like to participate. Must we feed them too? If this is a wide open community, we need to tax everyone accordingly so that everyone can enjoy the features and not stick some of the people with the amenity fee bill.

And aren't these people being paid wages? What areas of the country advise us if we employ someone, we must turn over our property to them for use?

[Skip]

Developer wants to sell houses there? Let him provide their own recreation in those family villages and charge a small amenity fee (if necessary).

Skip

[ladykathleen]

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM the Greenerside I don't think so, I pay my fees they don't. Cheers to you Peachie, you have come a full 360 degrees. We can make our voices heard. As I said previously Bison Valley is just the beginning. Lets see: Parkwood, all the condos being built on 466 and how about all the schools using facilities our amenities are paying to maintain and pay off the bonds while we have no control and no say.

[graciegirl]

:barf:

[redwitch]

I don't believe employees should be allowed to use the amenities. The golf cart paths? Okay, that I can see. Our paths are open to anyone who wants to use them and can find a way to get to them regardless of where they live. I don't particularly agree with this policy and would love to see mini-gates on those that access outside areas. If you don't have a gate pass, you pay an amount to enter ($1.00? or something like that). Pretty simple solution to me.

Again, I do believe that those who live nearby and have relatives in TV should be allowed access PROVIDED they are accompanied by their relatives. Yes, some families will abuse it and use the amenities on a daily basis. Personally, though I think we'd find that the majority are pretty close to the 30-day time period (grandma and grandpa are too busy to babysit every day as a norm) or they would be if the rules would be enforced.

[Fourpar]

I'm with graciegirl on this one!

[Cassie325]

:barf:



Gracie...are you barfing because we have beat this to death...or at someones specific comment? Just curious.....

[Barefoot]

barb1191 :agree:
keep it simple and enforce it, visitor passes for length of stay only


I agree with JohnN and Barb 1191. Keep it simple and improve monitoring.

[Peachie]

Kathleen, sometimes I don't think you read any of my posts. I have consistently stated we need to stay alert and when and if there is a specific issue, get involved. I have no time for persistant ranting and broad complaints which denounce the developer constantly and do not offer a solution, just a "the sky is falling" attitude. I think that's the tack most Villagers take. There is a difference!

[ladykathleen]

Okay Peachie,

You totally misread my posts. You say stay alert, okay stay alert then what. Are you willing to go to district meetings???????????

[Peachie]

Kathleen, you have the lucky priviledge or unlucky onus, however YOU look at at, to live in The Villages fulltime. We do not, we are still working. Finish reading my sentence, "if there is a specific issue, get involved." Can you please advise all of us how much change you have implemented by attending these district meetings and how you effected these changes? I have the distinct feeling, if someone does not have the same viewpoint as you do, you must take them to task. That's a waste of time. I do not know you personally but I think all of your concern is based on financial issues for yourself. I understand that and finances are important to most of us. But you're better off enjoying the moment and deal with a problem WHEN and if it arises. Wise ole Ben Franklin said, "Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight". Maybe then you and I could meet someday and enjoy each others company, Kathleen.

[billethkid]

The in area annual passes are (were?) intended to accommodate TV family members that live with a 50 mile radius of TV.

Family from anywhere outside the 50 mile limit can get as many 30 day passes as they can use up. So the spirit and intention of the in area pass was for family members of TV residents. And if you have family in the area it most likely makes sense.

Some home work needs to be done to put the issue into a proper context. From what I understand (3rd hand) there were less than 500 in area passes throughout 2007. That would be about seven tenths of one percent of TV population spread across all the facilities in some distribution. Hardly an inundation of the facilities or am entities.

The bigger issue is the ongoing violation of the 30 day passes that numbers in the hundreds and thousands per month by being issued to almost any and all that know the rules and back into the answers for the passes. Add to that the number of folks who know which pools and rec centers that check ID and those that don't.

IMHO, the in area annual passes are not the problem! The lack of discipline in all the other passes and walk ins are the real problem.

BTK

BTK

[thegreenerside]

LadyKat - I guess you just go ape **** when you pay your property taxes every year as well. Not only are you paying for .25 % of the population of TV to use a swimming pool, but you are also paying for thousands of kids to go to school. Life is horrible.

[renielarson]

To pay for education is an investment in our country and for the future lives of not only our children but for future generations. I gladly contribute to the education of all children and believe it is my American duty to help provide for their learning experiences. Where would all of us be without the money to help pay for education?

But, then again, if we did not support education we wouldn't have all the loud mouths, know it alls, holier than thou people here because they wouldn't be able to read and write!

By the way, I'm a teacher and very passionate about this subject, can you tell?

[Cassie325]

To pay for education is an investment in our country and for the future lives of not only our children but for future generations. I gladly contribute to the education of all children and believe it is my American duty to help provide for their learning experiences. Where would all of us be without the money to help pay for education?

But, then again, if we did not support education we wouldn't have all the loud mouths, know it alls, holier than thou people here because they wouldn't be able to read and write!

By the way, I'm a teacher and very passionate about this subject, can you tell?

Bright my friend I do love your passion and points of view! :agree:

I also wanted to let you know where to send the check for the Burns child college fund....
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
:joke:

[sandybill2]

The in area annual passes are (were?) intended to accommodate TV family members that live with a 50 mile radius of TV.

Family from anywhere outside the 50 mile limit can get as many 30 day passes as they can use up. So the spirit and intention of the in area pass was for family members of TV residents. And if you have family in the area it most likely makes sense.

Some home work needs to be done to put the issue into a proper context. From what I understand (3rd hand) there were less than 500 in area passes throughout 2007. That would be about seven tenths of one percent of TV population spread across all the facilities in some distribution. Hardly an inundation of the facilities or am entities.

The bigger issue is the ongoing violation of the 30 day passes that numbers in the hundreds and thousands per month by being issued to almost any and all that know the rules and back into the answers for the passes. Add to that the number of folks who know which pools and rec centers that check ID and those that don't.

IMHO, the in area annual passes are not the problem! The lack of discipline in all the other passes and walk ins are the real problem.

BTK

BTK
Per Current guest ID Information facts/figures ----average number of in-area guest passes issued monthly---123------Active in-area guest ID cards as of July 3, 2008---1,358

[Muncle]

Just wanted to let y'all know that today I struck a blow against those no good, dirty, low class, non-amenity fee paying, bottom-feeding :edit: who live in Bison Valley and threaten our lifestyle and very existence. This afternoon, with no forewarning and without seeking their permission, I drove on their cart paths and multi-modal trails. I was going to make illicit use of their amenities, maybe swim, play shuffleboard, or sit in on a bridge game, but I couldn't find any.

Be warned, Bison Valley residents, this is just the first salvo in what could become an eternal conflict. I'll be back!!!

[renielarson]

Cassie aka Maria

I contribute to Boys Town in Nebraska and St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

[Cassie325]

OH DARN!!! It was worth asking!!!

[elaineshere]

I do not live yet in the Villages but will be renting for a year as of this October. We are planning on looking to buy. The only thing that i don't think is fair is that if I have my Grandkids come and visit for a week or two in the Summer I would have to pay the $50 for each and the others that live near by get a year for FREE!!! That is not fair. They should have to pay the same guest pass fee that we have to pay for our grandkids to use the facilities.

[redwitch]

Elaine, if your grandkids are under 10, they're free, too.

[elaineshere]

I understand that if they are under 10 is free. I have 4 Grandsons from 10 to 15 so they would not be free. Of course I would only be taking 2 at a time. All 4 would be a bit too much :o I just don't understand just beacuse they live within 50 miles its free. And for grandkinds that woould just be using the facilities for maybe 2 weeks to a month tops have to pay. It just doesn't seem fair to those that get to spend a short time with their grandkids

[Cassie325]

I do not live yet in the Villages but will be renting for a year as of this October. We are planning on looking to buy. The only thing that i don't think is fair is that if I have my Grandkids come and visit for a week or two in the Summer I would have to pay the $50 for each and the others that live near by get a year for FREE!!! That is not fair. They should have to pay the same guest pass fee that we have to pay for our grandkids to use the facilities.



Ok I promised myself that I would not get on this thread again...but now I am SO CONFUSED!!!! Since when does anyone pay for a guest pass???????

We have never paid for a guest pass....did I miss something?

[samhass]

Cassie, renters have the option of paying $50.00 for a guest pass to use the amenities.

[redwitch]

Cassie, a lot of times the pass fee is included in the rental fee. You just have to go pick it up (and sometimes not even that if the homeowner has a registered agent with TV).

[Cassie325]

Oh I see....so renters pay $50 per person per visit to use the amenities?????

[redwitch]

Yup. Even long-term renters like me have to pay this fee. I don't mind -- would much rather pay $50 once a year than have to be escorted everywhere by another TVer.

[Cassie325]

Red....is it $50 per year per person.....for a renter....then if you bring in a few guests...say 3 grandchildren....you pay $50 for each grandchild e very time you have them visit?

So if they visit 3 seperate weeks a year you pay $150 per year per grandchild?

[villages07]

Whoa folks...I think things have gotten confused.

Any village resident can get FREE guest passes for their visitors. The guest has to live outside the 50 mile radius. The guest is entitled to use the amenities (adult pool (if old enough), family pool, pickleball, tennis) but not the sports pools. The guest is entitled to play executive golf but must pay the appropriate guest green fee or trail fee. Essentially, they pay guest rates for things that have fees attached and are excluded from programs that are resident only. Guest passes are issued for up to 30 days.

A renter can "purchase" the resident ID from the owner of home (by going through the Villages process whereby the owner turns in his ID cards). There is a $50 fee for the owner to transfer his resident privileges to his renter(s). One $50 for all the renters. I am not sure of the time limit on this (e.g. you have a long term, permanent renter who stays in the house for 3 years...do they pay $50 each year or just once). This transfer now gives the renter ALL resident privileges.....no exec green fees; resident fees for all other activities, use of sports pools, entry to Katie Belles, etc. For someone who is renting in TV for a month or longer, this $50 investment will probably make sense.

Please don't confuse guest passes with resident transfer privileges.

[Mallory]

The Focus Group was scheduled to meet again last night (8/28). Did anyone on either side of this question attend and/or provide information?

[Cassie325]

The Focus Group was scheduled to meet again last night (8/28). Did anyone on either side of this question attend and/or provide information?


How and where do we find out about the meetings....would have gone....depnding on the time.

[Muncle]

How and where do we find out about the meetings....would have gone....depnding on the time.




http://www.districtgov.org/images/GuestIDFocusGroupMeeting080814.pdf

[Cassie325]

http://www.districtgov.org/images/GuestIDFocusGroupMeeting080814.pdf

Thank you Muncle!!!!

[joe kaelin]

All this talk about passes is driving me nuts. Why did the developer invent this problem in the first place? It just confuses the issue. If a resident of TV wants to have a guest, such as the lady who has a boyfriend who lives outside TV, accompany her to an area that requires I.D., then he goes there with her and not alone. Likewise, any other person, child or adult, who wants to use any of the facilities must be accompanied by a resident with proper I.D., no exceptions. The rule should be that [b]EACH[/b resident is permitted to have up to four guests accompany them to a restricted area. When an enforcement agent asks for I.D's, the resident covers them with his/her I.D. card. [b]NO ONE[b] should be using any of the amenities in TV unless they are accompanied by a resident. The resident who wants to play golf with his son-in-law will have to be present. The son-in-law should not be playing alone. In the case of Bison Valley and other outside Villages properties, the developer should issue them special I.D. cards for a fee, and the money should be sent to the proper amenities fund.

[Frangyomory]

As I understood it the one year tri-county family ID/pass did not include pools so someone needs to get in touch with Mr.Rohan. I would also contact VHA and POA to find out what is going on. I know the rules are posted somewhere. I am almost sure that the one year thing does NOT include the pools and wish someone would verify this. I plan to call Mr. Rohan's office on Monday and will check back here.

[renielarson]

Grumpy...so...with a 4 guest rule how do I choose who I can take with me and who I can't when my sister and family come to visit? Do I leave 2 at home and take the rest? That is absolutely the silliest recommendation I've ever heard!

[sandybill2]

As I understood it the one year tri-county family ID/pass did not include pools so someone needs to get in touch with Mr.Rohan. I would also contact VHA and POA to find out what is going on. I know the rules are posted somewhere. I am almost sure that the one year thing does NOT include the pools and wish someone would verify this. I plan to call Mr. Rohan's office on Monday and will check back here.
As I noted in another forum, I have a copy of the rules as I know someone in the "Focus group". These rules are also posted in the general information booklet that is given to new residents. The in-area ID guest cards have access to everything that the general guest ID cards do. The only difference is that with the in-area guest ID cards, the resident MUST accompany these guests to all facilities.

[rdmills]

When I moved here in 2000, you couldn't use our facilities if you lived in the tri-county area. Folks keep pushing what ifs. My bother lives close by, my second cousin removed twice lives close by. Soon it will be no longer a retirement comunity, but a resort for all family member within the area. AS we all know it's getting crazy around here with all the traffic from outside, difficulty getting tee-times ,,etc. Let's go back to when The Villages were for retirees and the whiners were still in the north. !!!!!!

[chuckinca]

Grumpy...so...with a 4 guest rule how do I choose who I can take with me and who I can't when my sister and family come to visit? Do I leave 2 at home and take the rest? That is absolutely the silliest recommendation I've ever heard!



You can get "family reunion" passes for a large related group.

[renielarson]

Honestly, I don't have to worry about 6 people coming to visit but I could see where some people would. What if a daughter/son and spouse had 3 or more children? That would be 5 or more visitors and make it a little difficult to pick and choose who could enjoy activities and who would have to be left behind.

I don't claim to have any answers or suggestions but there must be a better solution to this problem.

[Cassie325]

Honestly, I don't have to worry about 6 people coming to visit but I could see where some people would. What if a daughter/son and spouse had 3 or more children? That would be 5 or more visitors and make it a little difficult to pick and choose who could enjoy activities and who would have to be left behind.

I don't claim to have any answers or suggestions but there must be a better solution to this problem.


I agree...but until it changes or even if it doesn't....there are ways to follow the rules and still get what you want/need. You can put 4 guests under your name....hubby or friend can put 4 under theirs....each friend you have here on TOTV's can put 4 people on.....atleast I would bright....send me the names and the dates and I will get the cards! ;)

[renielarson]

Cassie

You are too sweet. But...I really don't have to worry and don't foresee ever needing to work around the system. I was only painting a scenario.

[joe kaelin]

Brightspot: I'm sorry you felt that my suggestion was so silly. I should not have assumed that you live alone. I thought 4 guests for each member of you household would be sufficient. That would provide for 8 guests for two residents. :dontknow:

[Cliff]

I get a chuckle out of reading these threads. There is always someone who knows a little more or less than the previous poster. If you REALLY are interested in this subject and want to get your point across, attend the next meeting of the Guest ID Focus Group at the Savannah Center at 2PM on Thursday, 11 Sep. I personally think that the 365 day pass should be abolished. Period. I can just about afford to pay my way here in the Villages as it is. I can not afford to provide services for families who want to use this place as their playground for nonresidents.

[Cassie325]

I get a chuckle out of reading these threads. There is always someone who knows a little more or less than the previous poster. If you REALLY are interested in this subject and want to get your point across, attend the next meeting of the Guest ID Focus Group at the Savannah Center at 2PM on Thursday, 11 Sep. I personally think that the 365 day pass should be abolished. Period. I can just about afford to pay my way here in the Villages as it is. I can not afford to provide services for families who want to use this place as their playground for nonresidents.


I will try to make it...anyone else want to go with me....

[renielarson]

Oh Grumpy

You missed my point completely. I was only thinking about residents who might have a married child with more than 2 children. You know, that is possible, right?

However, I agree that if there is a twosome retired Villages couple then 8 passes would, in most cases, suffice.

Smile Grumpy... ;D...life is too short!

[GMONEY]

I for the sake of things can believe all the hype over Bison Valley. Me my wife and 2 kids live there. we both work for The Villages. i do not getting to use any of The Villages amenities. And no we are not required to pay the fees either. Yes we can ride on the cart path that exits out of Bison Valley and use the other ones. I dont complain when i see nothing but Golf Carts from The Villages up and down our roads, or Villagers riding thru our nieghborhood all the time. I went to my uncovered mailbox to get my mail and caught a couple letting their dog poo by our mailbox and walking off not picking it up. i followed them down 101 and stopped them as they were going into summerhill. asked them to pick up the poo. Bottom line we get along, most of The Villagers that come into Bison Valley are very friendly and stop and talk. We love The Villages and enjoy this area. P.S.

[Cassie325]

G~~ welcome to TOTV and welcome to The villages...I am glad you are here! this is a wonderful place to live and Bison valley is beautiful! We almost bought in there....you will here in some of my posts that I have a child as well...we just happen to have set up different circumstances....

Since you don't have a pool....we have one in our apartment complex that I am sure I can let your family use. They really don't mind as long as you have a gate key....and are on your best behavior...LOL

I love that employees of TV's can live and work in the most beautiful place in the world!

[GMONEY]

Thanks Cassie325.. it is a beautiful place here. Most people dont realized just how good they got it here as compared to alot of other places. I love it in Bison Valley, nice to be close to work and the kids go to the Charter School. i have talke to most in BV, they dont use The Villages amenities whatsoever. other than the golf cart paths. But most who live in BV are employed with The Villages directly, or Villages residents that moved there. As the Saying goes, "Great day to be in The Villages".

[Cassie325]

Well I would love to come meet everyone one of these days...if you don't mind driving through the neighborhood! I think it is great that you are here. I would have bought in bison Valley in a second if they told us there would be some amenities!

I am envious of your ability to send your kids to the charter school...it is a wonderful AMENITY for employees of TV's...

I still work but work from home for another company. There really aren't any jobs here that would pay as much...unless of course I get some sort of new certification or degree....and well school would get in the way of my social life!!

How old are your kids? My daughter is 11...either they can be friends or in a year or so she can babysit!!

It is and always is a beautiful day in TV's. PS....I am only in my 30's...and I love it as much as you do it seems! Personally I think it is heaven on earth...and why wouldn't everyone want to live here!!! I am glad we are able to....

[Cliff]

I am not a member of the Focus Group but I did attend the meeting on Thursday. The first thing I was told was that, because I did not attend the first two meetings, I would not be entitled to speak on their subject of the in-area guest pass (subject of the day for this meeting). I had to sit on the side of the room and keep my mouth shut. It very quickly became obvious why the group voted to not allow any new participants. If you think confusion reigns on this thread, you should have attended the meeting as I did. There are members who have multiple in-area guest passes and want to keep them no matter what happens. There are people who have never once used an in-area guest pass and think that they are being robbed each month when they pay their amenity fee. Mr Rohan tried to keep the peace and keep people on the subject of the day but he had one heck of a difficult time. One gentleman almost got into a fight with another man sitting at a table behind him. Typical TOTV tempers. Forget all about what the rules are right now because the ultimate recommendation of the group is going to be made to the next higher committee and the developer that the in-area guest pass should be shortened to 30 USES or 30 days per year. Just about everyone on the group agreed that the passes would continue to be issued to only children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and spouses. No non relatives. These meetings will be going on for months as they are going to tackle one subject at a time concerning guest passes. It was difficult not being able to express my personal opinions on the subject of in-area guest passes but I did find it interesting to observe the discussion (fight). One thing is very obvious. There are people to presently take advantage of the in-area guest pass formula and they want to continue to take advantage of the pass. Some feel it is cheaper for their grown children to live outside TV and not have to pay the monthly amenity fees but still be able to use the pools, golf courses, and other recreation facilities. The stipulation is that the resident of TV must accompany the guest at all times. So one of the guests can't go to play golf while the other guests go to a family pool with the resident. The guest must be with the resident. That requirement will probably never be changed.

[Cassie325]

Cliff....thank you for posting this information...I was hoping someone was able to attend. I am glad I didn't go if no one else was allowed to speak! Thanks so much!

[graciegirl]

Forget all about what the rules are right now because the ultimate recommendation of the group is going to be made to the next higher committee and the developer that the in-area guest pass should be shortened to 30 USES or 30 days per year.
[/quote]


This sounds pretty good. What do you think? Am I missing something here?

[alemorkam]

Not only do Bison Valley people use our pools, they also have golf cart access to the villages. They can use their golf carts to run around the villages using golf cart paths, many of which are maintained using our amenity fees. Now people are using golf carts to access the Villages from Parkwood, which is just down the street from Bison Valley. Does know the regulations concerning this?
:rant-rave::rant-rave::rant-rave:

[GMONEY]

Not only do Bison Valley people use our pools, they also have golf cart access to the villages. They can use their golf carts to run around the villages using golf cart paths, many of which are maintained using our amenity fees. Now people are using golf carts to access the Villages from Parkwood, which is just down the street from Bison Valley. Does know the regulations concerning this?
:rant-rave::rant-rave::rant-rave:

This I can tell you from living there. There are a few people in Bison that have Golf Carts, and yes there is a Cart access for us. Originally built for families of Village employees. The only people that go to the pools in TV from Bison Valley are those that have Family that are Village residents. There are a few of those that have parents that have been living in The Villages for a long time. That is about it. Most of us are tired of hearing that we all use your stuff, grow up. Educate yourself as to who does what.

And yes Parkwood residents do drive their carts down cr-101 on the sidewalk and thru our place. we have complained to the HOA also on this with no luck. we dont like it either. We hate having them flying around our place also.

[Avista]

My family lives out of state. I always get them guest passes when they visit. If they lived near The Villages, I would hope they could visit all facilities as my guest. As long as a Villages resident must accompany their guest who lives near by, I see no harm.

[Army Guy]

My family lives out of state. I always get them guest passes when they visit. If they lived near The Villages, I would hope they could visit all facilities as my guest. As long as a Villages resident must accompany their guest who lives near by, I see no harm.

Ok, let me wade in to this discussion.......
I find the last 2 lines of the above quote, totally wrong. A guest according to Webster, is "a person who receives hospitality of another person while visiting".
If family is "living" near TV and using OUR amenities that WE are paying for regularly as is implied that is WRONG! They are not "visiting". The intent is, as an example, my family lives in NJ, they stop by for a visit while in FL on a trip and I want to take my Dad and play some bocce, that is the intent. Not that they live near, pay nothing, and use facilities, REGUARDLESS if a TV Owner is with them or not. That according to Webster is "stealing, fraud, etc." And yes there should be a limit and 30 days seems fair.
I am sorry if MHO offends anyone, but being military for 30+ years I follow rules to the reg and intent.
Ok, I am off my soap box now!

Army Guy

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Ditto Army guy:agree:

[MelZ]

Ok, let me wade in to this discussion.......
I find the last 2 lines of the above quote, totally wrong. A guest according to Webster, is "a person who receives hospitality of another person while visiting".
If family is "living" near TV and using OUR amenities that WE are paying for regularly as is implied that is WRONG! They are not "visiting". The intent is, as an example, my family lives in NJ, they stop by for a visit while in FL on a trip and I want to take my Dad and play some bocce, that is the intent. Not that they live near, pay nothing, and use facilities, REGUARDLESS if a TV Owner is with them or not. That according to Webster is "stealing, fraud, etc." And yes there should be a limit and 30 days seems fair.
I am sorry if MHO offends anyone, but being military for 30+ years I follow rules to the reg and intent.
Ok, I am off my soap box now!

Army Guy

Army Guy speaks for me also

[chuckinca]

Ok, let me wade in to this discussion.......
I find the last 2 lines of the above quote, totally wrong. A guest according to Webster, is "a person who receives hospitality of another person while visiting".
If family is "living" near TV and using OUR amenities that WE are paying for regularly as is implied that is WRONG! They are not "visiting". The intent is, as an example, my family lives in NJ, they stop by for a visit while in FL on a trip and I want to take my Dad and play some bocce, that is the intent. Not that they live near, pay nothing, and use facilities, REGUARDLESS if a TV Owner is with them or not. That according to Webster is "stealing, fraud, etc." And yes there should be a limit and 30 days seems fair.
I am sorry if MHO offends anyone, but being military for 30+ years I follow rules to the reg and intent.
Ok, I am off my soap box now!

Army Guy



So - it's fine to play bocce with your dad if he is visiting from New Jersey but not Ok if he is visiting from Leesburg.


.

[Dirigo]

Ok, let me wade in to this discussion.......
I find the last 2 lines of the above quote, totally wrong. A guest according to Webster, is "a person who receives hospitality of another person while visiting".
If family is "living" near TV and using OUR amenities that WE are paying for regularly as is implied that is WRONG! They are not "visiting". The intent is, as an example, my family lives in NJ, they stop by for a visit while in FL on a trip and I want to take my Dad and play some bocce, that is the intent. Not that they live near, pay nothing, and use facilities, REGUARDLESS if a TV Owner is with them or not. That according to Webster is "stealing, fraud, etc." And yes there should be a limit and 30 days seems fair.
I am sorry if MHO offends anyone, but being military for 30+ years I follow rules to the reg and intent.
Ok, I am off my soap box now!

Army Guy

Right on, Army Guy!

I wonder who is responsible for policing the pools and rec centers to verify guest rules are being followed ? Anyone? Or is it just the honor system.

Dirigo

[Whatever]

I pay and they play! I'm in Army Guy's corner on this one.

[alemorkam]

Go army guy. Right on. And for GMONEY. The majority of golf cart paths are maintained by amenity fees. The more people that use them, the more repair they need. Just like roadways. Seeing you DO NOT pay amenity fees you should not be using the golf cart pathways. growing up has nothing to do with it.
chilout

[MelZ]

Right on, Army Guy!

I wonder who is responsible for policing the pools and rec centers to verify guest rules are being followed ? Anyone? Or is it just the honor system.

Dirigo

rec center staff spot checks people at pools and usings rec center outdoor facilities.

[Talk Host]

rec center staff spot checks people at pools and usings rec center outdoor facilities.

And, what do they do if they find a violation? Do they, somehow, force the visiting family, including the little kids with their inflated duck floats, to leave the pool. What if they refuse to leave? Will the sheriff be called and they will all be hauled off to the precinct.

Believe me, I'm not in favor of opening the amenities to non residents. I am focusing on enforcement. Who has authority to do what?

[Bogie Shooter]

And, what do they do if they find a violation? Do they, somehow, force the visiting family, including the little kids with their inflated duck floats, to leave the pool. What if they refuse to leave? Will the sheriff be called and they will all be hauled off to the precinct.

Believe me, I'm not in favor of opening the amenities to non residents. I am focusing on enforcement. Who has authority to do what?
Is enforcement a problem?

[sandybill2]

I actually was a witness to the "enforcement" of the no guest pass policy this past summer. My 14 yr old granddaughter and I were at the Churchill Family Pool. Our ID's were checked as we entered. I witnessed a couple with a small child of around 3 attempting to come into pool area---they did not have guest passes and did not even seem to know what they were. They did not go away happy but they were not allowed in. I also witnessed people in the pool area questioning the "enforcer" as to why he would not let them in since they had a small child. Any Villager should know that passes are required for their guests so I wondered if they were just driving by looking for a pool to use. They did not get into the Churchill Pool. This was in July.

[Talk Host]

Is enforcement a problem?

I don't know. Do you?

I was asking a question and got a your question in reply.

[golf2140]

I would think that if they were using the facilities and were not a guest. They could be charged with trespass.

[uujudy]

. . . And yes there should be a limit and 30 days seems fair. . .

Army Guy

On the other hand. . .
My 86-year-old mother-in-law from St. Petersburg visits us for weeks at a time, and she LOVES having a Villages guest pass. She only uses it when we go to the pool or the movies, but she LOVES showing her guest pass. She doesn't swim; she just likes to sit at the pool with us. We usually get her a pass for her entire visit. She visits us for two weeks at Easter, another two weeks for Thanksgiving and her birthday, another 3 weeks for Christmas, plus occasional weekly visits from time to time... She would use up a 30-day pass in no time at all.
Would I have to get her a pass on a daily basis, or just get one whenever the weather was nice, so we could go to the pool together? That doesn't make much sense to me.

PS: Shhh. Don't tell anyone I told you how old she is. She still claims to be 79. She said that once you're 80 everybody thinks you're old.

PPS: She saves her old guest passes. She keeps them on her refrigerator so all her neighbors can see that she's been to The Villages many, many times.

[gemorc]

I have read all sixteen pages of this thread, and I believe we have missed the point. Who was the developer of Bison Valley? Why did he build golf cart access to our cart paths? What newspaper advertises Bison Valley Real Estate? What Real Estate Company is the lead in Bison Valley Dealings?

Boy am I a conspirsay nut or what?

[dillywho]

On the other hand. . .
My 86-year-old mother-in-law from St. Petersburg visits us for weeks at a time, and she LOVES having a Villages guest pass. She only uses it when we go to the pool or the movies, but she LOVES showing her guest pass. She doesn't swim; she just likes to sit at the pool with us. We usually get her a pass for her entire visit. She visits us for two weeks at Easter, another two weeks for Thanksgiving and her birthday, another 3 weeks for Christmas, plus occasional weekly visits from time to time... She would use up a 30-day pass in no time at all.
Would I have to get her a pass on a daily basis, or just get one whenever the weather was nice, so we could go to the pool together? That doesn't make much sense to me.

PS: Shhh. Don't tell anyone I told you how old she is. She still claims to be 79. She said that once you're 80 everybody thinks you're old.

PPS: She saves her old guest passes. She keeps them on her refrigerator so all her neighbors can see that she's been to The Villages many, many times.

As I have said in earlier posts, I served on the Focus Group concerning the guest IDs. The 30 day limit proposal was for the In-Area Guest ID's only since those are issued for 365 days and are limited to children, spouses, grandchildren, spouses, great-grandchildren only (no other relatives, i.e. brothers, uncles, etc.) The actual proposal was not for 30 days, but for 30 days of use per 365 day period. Persons living outside the tri-county area are issued passes (maximum 30 days) which are renewable. Some of the ones we heard from who have the in-area guest passes use them very little. One guy said he sees less of his grandkids now than he did when they lived in Orlando. The 365-day pass just allows them to do things with the grandkids, etc. on a spur of the moment basis (Sunday afternoon occasionally for instance). Out of area guests are usually not just "drop-ins" but planned visits.

Most people who have guests from outside the area do so for much less than 30 days annually. Some people have many guests but not the same ones all the time. This focus group all came about, not because they don't want you to have guests, but because of those few (and they are few) who abuse the system. Guest passes are now issued for the very young children because some were passing off their grandchildren's friends (or others) as their grandchildren as well. Much of the abuse was from people who do not live here full-time and as a result, did not want to have to pay the amenity fees, upkeep of property, insurance, etc. so they bought close, got their friends in TV to get them guest passes (using their out-of-state id's) every 30 days thus giving them all the amenities of what the guest program was meant to be without having to pay all the stuff that goes with ownership in TV.

If you know of someone using the pools, etc. and living in Bison or somewhere close but not here, call (all the rec centers and pools have phones) and they will send someone out to check. I have noticed much more checking going on since the focus group meetings at our neighborhood pool and that is as it should be. Personally, I would like to see the pool monitors returned, but we were told that it is totally cost-prohibitive. Meanwhile, protect our investments by calling and reporting. If they are indeed there legally, they should not be offended and if they are, too bad. I can count on one hand the times I have been to our neighborhood pool in the six years I've been here and have had people in the pool ask me if I belong. I actually appreciate that they do and am happy to produce my ID, thank them for asking, and enjoy the rest of my time there. Turst me, I am not offended....quite the opposite.

[GMONEY]

I have read all sixteen pages of this thread, and I believe we have missed the point. Who was the developer of Bison Valley? Why did he build golf cart access to our cart paths? What newspaper advertises Bison Valley Real Estate? What Real Estate Company is the lead in Bison Valley Dealings?

Boy am I a conspirsay nut or what?

The Villages is the developer for Bison Valley. It goes under the name of Mid-Florida Porperties which is addressed at Lake Sumter Landing. The company that sells these houses is The Villages.

www.bisonvalleyvillage.com

Originally built for employess and their families that build and operate in The Villages. Thus the cart path access. There are alot of Villagers that sold and moved into Bison. memebers of the Villages Sales Dept live there as do adminisrtators at the Villages CHarter School.
Funnything about this Cart Path issue. We sat out and watched the other night a whole string of Carts come into Bison drive around and look. then drive out the main entrance turn left on CR-101 and drive to Parkwood Village. They then returned and drove back thru Bison. i asked them as they drove by my house where they were heading. they just wanted to go see Bison and drive thru Parkwood. Just out on a stroll. Imagine that. get all in a uproar because they gave the us a cart path access then the residents use our streets as a short cut to somewhere else. Complain about cart path use, try going to LSL or Spanish SPrings and stopping all these people that drive there, park their vehicles and either ride bike or rent the golf carts and tour The Villages. dont see them paying for anything...
Amazing what people will complain about. most of the people who are buying in Bison like myself have been working thier butts off many hours a week for 16-20 years so you FINE FOLKS have this Great Place to live. Thye give us cart access and you turn into the Exorcist..

What a Deal.. :boxing2: :faint:

[Lou Card]

We first came to The Villages 5 years ago with friends that live in here. We fell in love right away. Now, we have our home in Atlanta listed for sale and are planing on moving as soon as it sells. That said, articles like this make we want to take a closer look. At my age, I know that unfortunatly, rules are required for us unperfect humans. Without rules you have caos. Rules that are not enforced are worthless.

Show me a bunch of young men on the town square with their pants hanging down and underwear showing with or without a guest pass and I become unhappy.

Remember, you pay more for the house just because it is in the Villages:

You pay ammenities just because you live in the villages:

If you allow the rules to slide to much or issue to many Outside Visitor Passes, and you will have just another large Florida city.

Compare the crime rate of outside communities with that of The Villages.

For those that work on the villages, I have no problems with them having worker permits for the family pools and even the golf cart trails, but I would say no to anyone living within 100 miles of the villages but not in The Villages haveing a year long pass. Why would they have a pass??? So they can use the Facilities without any obligation whatsoever. To make one Resident happy that is a relative. If you took a vote, I feel confident that 1000's of passes would not be given out. Keep in mind that when the villages is built out, rules will have to take a strong stance toward enforcement or you will have total breakdown of the concept of this wonderful place.

Lou

[Avista]

GMONEY, I for one support you.

[Army Guy]

Lou, I agree with you 100%. As I have said I follow rules, regs, what ever we want to call them, to the letter. Maybe it has to do with my military, maybe it doesn't. But fact is rules are made and we have to follow them or pay the penalty. We ALL had to read and sign saying we understood the rules when we bought at TV. Does TV let the rules slide at times, YOU BETCHA! So we as OWNERS need to force them to enforce them. Cause if you think about it, we had to sign that we would abide by them, so we entered a "contract" with TV. If they don't enforce, isn't that a breach of contract? I tell you one that really gripes me, is Garage Doors being left open. In the rules it states they will not be left open, but I see plenty that leave open all day and night. And most Garages inside are a MESS!! But I have NEVER seen CW stop and tell them to close it. Just one example.
I agree totally with your feelings about Guest Passes, and so do MANY others. I believe 30 days a year PERIOD. Am I saying you can't have guests more then that, NO, they just can't swim, play golf, etc. As I have said before WE pay the fees, they DON'T. If they want to use the facilities we have in TV....BUY HERE, like the rest of us did. I am against people using LSVs as vacations also. You get one, then if working with an agent to buy, you can get two more to look at homes, and final one at closing. You bring up the Squares, my feelings? At night when the groups, etc are performing, they should be CLOSED and CW check IDs for getting in. We are PAYING for the entertainment, not Parkwood, Stone Crest, etc. And kids? If no RESPONSIBLE adult with them, throw 'em out. They have no business here.
With all that being said, Lou, TV is a great place, is it perfect? No, no place in the world is. BUT is it worth the extra price of buying TV, and is it near perfect as it can? YOU BETHCA!!!!!!!!!!!!! We searched for 5 years and looked at dozens of places from Williamsburg, VA down the coast. Ain't nothing like TV anywhere!
And Money, I am all for those contected with TV, and the school, etc using the facilities. It is a perk of the business, just like in the Army I can use the PX, etc. No problem there. It is all the other, and yes I will say it, Freeloaders, that should not.
ok, once again off my soap box!

Army Guy

[Talk Host]

You bring up the Squares, my feelings? At night when the groups, etc are performing, they should be CLOSED and CW check IDs for getting in. We are PAYING for the entertainment, not Parkwood, Stone Crest, etc. And kids? If no RESPONSIBLE adult with them, throw 'em out. They have no business here.

Army Guy


If I'm not mistaken, those are public streets, paid by public tax dollars. Can't forbid anybody from using them.

[Army Guy]

Understand about the streets, but I mean the actual "square" area where the sitting and dancing is.

Army Guy

[chuckster]

Believe the commercial tenants pay for the entertainment not the residents. It's a CDD unto itself. Could be wrong ...........

[Army Guy]

chuckster, if that is the case then I am wrong with my complaint on the entertainment. I thought it was part of the fee we pay.

Army Guy

[Avista]

I understand most of the folks who live in Bison work for The Villages. Shouldn't we be more hospitable toward them?

[bluedog103]

First time we were in TV it was just a day trip. No invitation, we weren't anyone's guests. We just drove over, took a trolley tour, had dinner and wandered around the square.
No we didn't play golf or attempt to use the pools or even drive on the cart paths. We were just outsiders visiting, as we've done in hundreds of communities around the world. Everone we met was friendly and made us feel comfortable.
Had we been given the bums rush, it's not likely we'd consider TV "America's Friendliest Hometown". Not likely would have returned and eventually bought a home in TV.
Rules are fine and should be enforced if they negatively affect your lifestyle. This should not be heavy handed. Who wants to live in a police state? Sometimes we need to lighten up a little.

[cybrgeezer]

The issue of who uses the facilities seems to be one of who pays the amenity fees. You all seem to feel – and rightly so – that if you have to pay, you should have exclusive rights to the facilities. No problem; in fact, it seems only fair.

But I have a question. Some time back, I posed this in an e-mail to the sales office as to whether it COULD be done. I received no answer. Now, I wonder how you feel about whether it SHOULD be possible:

How do you feel about people who live near The Villages paying the amenity fee for the right to use facilities and participate in activities? They would pay a fair fee (since on another thread about the fee it seems not to be standard throughout The Villages) in return for all the rights and privileges.

It seems that would alleviate everyone's objections to “outsiders” using pools, cart paths, etc., while allowing people who live nearby to not be excluded from the larger community, one that includes their 70,000 or so neighbors in TV.

I haven't seen anyone suggest this so far, so what do you all think?

[dillywho]

They are not getting what you call "the bums rush". It would be a different story if they were charged and paid for the ammenities the same as we do, but they don't. There is an actual family section (children are allowed) within TV and they do not pay for the ammenities nor use them. They understand this when they purchase there. Why should Bison or any of the other surrounding areas be any different? People here are not being rude, just trying to protect their investments.

If you check back, Katie Belle's at one time was open to everyone. It was changed to a residents and guests only when the residents could not get in because it was always full of people from the surrounding areas. That was also when there were very few places in TV to go and Katie Belle's was much larger then as well. The residents still couldn't get in much of the time because of those coming in from surrounding areas.

BTW, anyone can play the championship courses only, not the executive courses. To play the championship, they just have to pay the non-resident green fees which are the highest fees. Priority resident members, residents, and their registered guests get first choice on tee times. The country clubs where I have lived previously didn't do this. You either belonged or you ate, swam, or played golf or tennis elsewhere. All the ones here are open to the public.

[dillywho]

The issue of who uses the facilities seems to be one of who pays the amenity fees. You all seem to feel – and rightly so – that if you have to pay, you should have exclusive rights to the facilities. No problem; in fact, it seems only fair.

But I have a question. Some time back, I posed this in an e-mail to the sales office as to whether it COULD be done. I received no answer. Now, I wonder how you feel about whether it SHOULD be possible:

How do you feel about people who live near The Villages paying the amenity fee for the right to use facilities and participate in activities? They would pay a fair fee (since on another thread about the fee it seems not to be standard throughout The Villages) in return for all the rights and privileges.

It seems that would alleviate everyone's objections to “outsiders” using pools, cart paths, etc., while allowing people who live nearby to not be excluded from the larger community, one that includes their 70,000 or so neighbors in TV.

I haven't seen anyone suggest this so far, so what do you all think?

They do not pay the big bonds in addition to the ammenity fees, either. The ammenities, etc. are constructed with those bonds. We have to pay our share of the bonds to live here.

[skip0358]

We visited some years back. We liked what we saw and that's what kep't us coming back. There were rules and restrictions, that's what we wanted. I had my share of don't tell me what I can do and the results were a very messy, depressed neighborhood. Anybody who bought elsewhere did so because the house prices were cheaper, the fees were cheaper, there were no bonds and very little rules.We bought a lifestyle and pay for this lifestyle, therefore we HAVE to protect this lifestyle. The pools, rec centers, golf courses etc. belong to us and our invited guests.I understand that the properties on 101 have a TV connection and I know they're not completed
( no rec. center & pool yet .) I believe when we visited there to look for my daughter the sales person said those residents had access to TV now what does that mean. As for the residents who life here with friends in the other communities close by you should not be getting guest passes for those people to have free access to our facilities. I know the guest pass rules were recently changed but I think they need to be tightened up a little more. Right now with the winter residents here it's pretty darn crowded at the pools and resteraunts. What's going to happen at build out or when more people are permanent. If you want to use here then move here. Just my opinion.

[OutsiderWithInterest]

I just have to rant here.

Gosh, I was considering moving into Bison Valley myself given the historic low prices right now, but I believe I will rethink that.

I love Villagers, but my gosh, there's a measely 96 homes in there. These are owned by the folks that keep the Villages running; and some of your are miffed that these people might use your cart paths & pools?!

Give me !#$ break. If you want to live in a submarine where "only the residents" get in and close the hatch, that's fine, but if you're going to own the submarine, then be prepared to run the submarine. Let all the recreation, golf facilities, waste water facilities, landscaping---EVERYTHING be run by residents only. The rest of us interlopers will move on.

How would you all like that?

[skip0358]

I don't care if you visit, come to eat, go to parades,fairs,polo grounds etc. As for the rec. facilites that's a different story. As for us running the facility how many people besides those living on 101 have JOBS here and make a pretty darn good living here.Where would all these people work. But that's off the topic of this thread. Earlier threads have stated pass rules were changed because of abuse. People living here caring for outsiders children and bring them to the family pool. People from outside without passes etc.Those changes were needed and I believe there are stii more restrictions needed. I'm sure if I went to stone crest, dell webb, legacy, arlinton ridge etc I couldn't walk in and use their pool or rec center. Thats all, I'm done.

[dillywho]

I just have to rant here.

Gosh, I was considering moving into Bison Valley myself given the historic low prices right now, but I believe I will rethink that.

I love Villagers, but my gosh, there's a measely 96 homes in there. These are owned by the folks that keep the Villages running; and some of your are miffed that these people might use your cart paths & pools?!

Give me !#$ break. If you want to live in a submarine where "only the residents" get in and close the hatch, that's fine, but if you're going to own the submarine, then be prepared to run the submarine. Let all the recreation, golf facilities, waste water facilities, landscaping---EVERYTHING be run by residents only. The rest of us interlopers will move on.

How would you all like that?

They are not all owned by "folks that keep the villages running". Anyone can buy in there. They can have kids....you cannot in TV. This is a "retirement community". We have restrictions so why would/should it be open to eveyone else with no restrictions? Would you buy a lot, build and equip a big rec room, have an indoor and/or outdoor pool, shuffleboard court, horseshoe pit, pool tables, etc. and then just let anyone use all of it and you foot all the bills? Could they use your kitchen to entertain their friends while using all your fun stuff? Not. That's what you're asking us to do. We pay and you play? Not.

[OutsiderWithInterest]

Not correct. The neighborhood is restricted to people who work for the villages in some manner. Some may work for the district, recreation, etc. Some may work for a contractor who works for the villages. ALL must be connected to the Villages though; and I DO NOT MEAN politically connected (I am sure the light bulbs of 1% of you came on when you read that).

Hey here's a thought. Why not erect a Berlin Wall around the Villages. Put up some checkpoints. That'll keep everyone out. Your squares and restaurants will shut down, but it will ensure that your pools and rec centers are 100% exclusive to residents.

I know I'm over the top here, but I am seriously having to rethink my desire to live in Bison Valley. Maybe it's best to work here but keep my 45 minute commute. I would hate to go through all the trouble only to get a finger from some mad residents when they see me drive out of my neighborhood in my golf cart.

Oh well, have a nice day all.

[cybrgeezer]

They do not pay the big bonds in addition to the ammenity fees, either. The ammenities, etc. are constructed with those bonds. We have to pay our share of the bonds to live here.

So, the folks who live in the Lake County portion of The Villages (no bond) shouldn't have full rights, either, even if they are paying the amenity fee?

And, if you want to say the bonds in Lake (were there ever any?) are all paid off, it would still be a "no bond" situation for any new buyer.

[chacam]

Where is this stated ? Or did you just hear of from someone?


Not correct. The neighborhood is restricted to people who work for the villages in some manner. Some may work for the district, recreation, etc. Some may work for a contractor who works for the villages.

[Pturner]

The issue of who uses the facilities seems to be one of who pays the amenity fees. You all seem to feel – and rightly so – that if you have to pay, you should have exclusive rights to the facilities. No problem; in fact, it seems only fair.

But I have a question. Some time back, I posed this in an e-mail to the sales office as to whether it COULD be done. I received no answer. Now, I wonder how you feel about whether it SHOULD be possible:

How do you feel about people who live near The Villages paying the amenity fee for the right to use facilities and participate in activities? They would pay a fair fee (since on another thread about the fee it seems not to be standard throughout The Villages) in return for all the rights and privileges.

It seems that would alleviate everyone's objections to “outsiders” using pools, cart paths, etc., while allowing people who live nearby to not be excluded from the larger community, one that includes their 70,000 or so neighbors in TV.

I haven't seen anyone suggest this so far, so what do you all think?

Hi cybrgeezer,
Have you already purchased a home in TV? If not, do you think this would this still be your recommendation if you lived in TV?

I mean, who wouldn't love to buy near The Villages, and then for an amenity fee that is less than the cost of most country club memberships, be able to use all of the TV neighborhood facilities? Hmm, I'm just thinking, if we had done this, we could live in a nice subdivision without worrying about all non-neighborhood traffic. Indeed we could still have a neighborhood, while the poor suckers who lived in TV no longer would. They would be living in a heavily trafficked central Florida amusement park. Never mind that TV is a neighborhood planned community designed to have just enough facilities to profitably serve its residents. In this way, it is able to remain a neighborhood for those who choose to pay more for their homes to live here.

So I'm just wondering, if everyone, regardless of where they lived, could pay an amenity fee to use TV amenities, would you buy a house in TV, or would you buy one nearby?

I can understand you wanting to buying the golden eggs (amenities), absolutely. My question is whether you would actually buy the goose that laid the golden egg-- and then kill the goose?

[Bogie Shooter]

We visited some years back. We liked what we saw and that's what kep't us coming back. There were rules and restrictions, that's what we wanted. I had my share of don't tell me what I can do and the results were a very messy, depressed neighborhood. Anybody who bought elsewhere did so because the house prices were cheaper, the fees were cheaper, there were no bonds and very little rules.We bought a lifestyle and pay for this lifestyle, therefore we HAVE to protect this lifestyle. The pools, rec centers, golf courses etc. belong to us and our invited guests.I understand that the properties on 101 have a TV connection and I know they're not completed
( no rec. center & pool yet .) I believe when we visited there to look for my daughter the sales person said those residents had access to TV now what does that mean. As for the residents who life here with friends in the other communities close by you should not be getting guest passes for those people to have free access to our facilities. I know the guest pass rules were recently changed but I think they need to be tightened up a little more. Right now with the winter residents here it's pretty darn crowded at the pools and resteraunts. What's going to happen at build out or when more people are permanent. If you want to use here then move here. Just my opinion.

The restaurants have nothing to do with your argument. If the "outsiders" didn't use them we probably would not have the restaurants around very long.

[skip0358]

Wasn't refering to the resteraunts for restrictions of use just stating a fact of crowds. Gee!

[Lou Card]

BUT:::::::: without all the residents, the squares would not be there to enjoy by anyone. Lets try to keep the orig concept in tact. This place was built for retired folks to have a safe and fun environment to live in. You want a fun experience for young adults and kids, try the little theme park down the road called Disney. It in the Orlando area. Lots of young action there, so please leave the peace and quite of retired living in The Villages to The Villages residents.

Lou

[rabonkmontage@msn.com]

We first came to The Villages 5 years ago with friends that live in here. We fell in love right away. Now, we have our home in Atlanta listed for sale and are planing on moving as soon as it sells. That said, articles like this make we want to take a closer look. At my age, I know that unfortunatly, rules are required for us unperfect humans. Without rules you have caos. Rules that are not enforced are worthless.

Show me a bunch of young men on the town square with their pants hanging down and underwear showing with or without a guest pass and I become unhappy.

Remember, you pay more for the house just because it is in the Villages:

You pay ammenities just because you live in the villages:

If you allow the rules to slide to much or issue to many Outside Visitor Passes, and you will have just another large Florida city.

Compare the crime rate of outside communities with that of The Villages.

For those that work on the villages, I have no problems with them having worker permits for the family pools and even the golf cart trails, but I would say no to anyone living within 100 miles of the villages but not in The Villages haveing a year long pass. Why would they have a pass??? So they can use the Facilities without any obligation whatsoever. To make one Resident happy that is a relative. If you took a vote, I feel confident that 1000's of passes would not be given out. Keep in mind that when the villages is built out, rules will have to take a strong stance toward enforcement or you will have total breakdown of the concept of this wonderful place.

Lou

I agree 100% with Lou and Army Guy

[dillywho]

So, the folks who live in the Lake County portion of The Villages (no bond) shouldn't have full rights, either, even if they are paying the amenity fee?

And, if you want to say the bonds in Lake (were there ever any?) are all paid off, it would still be a "no bond" situation for any new buyer.

Once my bond is paid off and if I sell, there would be no bond attached to it to be paid by the buyer. It is a one time thing. Everyone does pay the ammenities fees and an annual assessment....everyone, every year.

Like I said earlier, would you build everything you wanted and then open it up to everyone just because they like what you have? Me neither. WE pay for this, you don't.

[dillywho]

I agree 100% with Lou and Army Guy

:agree:

[Bogie Shooter]

I just have to rant here.

Gosh, I was considering moving into Bison Valley myself given the historic low prices right now, but I believe I will rethink that.

I love Villagers, but my gosh, there's a measely 96 homes in there. These are owned by the folks that keep the Villages running; and some of your are miffed that these people might use your cart paths & pools?!

Give me !#$ break. If you want to live in a submarine where "only the residents" get in and close the hatch, that's fine, but if you're going to own the submarine, then be prepared to run the submarine. Let all the recreation, golf facilities, waste water facilities, landscaping---EVERYTHING be run by residents only. The rest of us interlopers will move on.

How would you all like that?
Go ahead and buy and move into Bison Valley. You will know the rules before you do that. Of all the posts here I have yet to read the "official" rules for Bison Valley residents. If the rule is you have full ammenity access.....than that is the rule. The objection we Villagers would have is not with you but the entity that sold you the home.If the rule is you do not have full ammenity access....than that is the rule. The objection we Villagers would have is now with you and we should demand from our entity that you not use the ammenities.
As a resident of Bison Valley and what you do for a living has nothing to do with this issue. Be ye a butcher, baker or candle stick maker....you still have to follow the rules (whatever they may be).
Rules are rules. If you bend the rules a little bit, then others want to bend them a lot.

[OutsiderWithInterest]

Thanks Bogie. I am still considering it and have been for over a year. I don't have the specific rules in front of me either, but I have been told that Bison Valley owners can do some things but not others.

By reading these boards though, one senses an undercurrent of unhappiness in some Villagers. Yes, I realize that no community is perfect, and it's a very small percentage, but it will probably be enough to keep me away in the end. I am used to living in A-1 surroundings where the "rules" fit on a single page. Before that I lived in a neighborhood with pretty loose restrictions, and it was nice. The more I learn about the Villages though, the more uncomfortable I become. It's not the restrictions that bother me so much as it is the volume of the self-appointed "cops" that trouble me. The last thing I want to do is keep an attorney on retainer to explain to me what I can and cannot do with my life.

Back to the specific issue of pools and rec centers, it is my understanding that, by law, it is impossible to keep the general public out of these facilities, that is, non-amenity paying people. I forgot the specifics, but I do remember it having to do with public access, highways, or some such thing.

I will say this to everyone though: If I could do it all over again, I would have become a lawyer. A person could make a killing in the Villages. Where there's a perpetual stack of rules and money flowing, there is ripe opportunity to skim a percentage off the top.

[dillywho]

Thanks Bogie. I am still considering it and have been for over a year. I don't have the specific rules in front of me either, but I have been told that Bison Valley owners can do some things but not others.

By reading these boards though, one senses an undercurrent of unhappiness in some Villagers. Yes, I realize that no community is perfect, and it's a very small percentage, but it will probably be enough to keep me away in the end. I am used to living in A-1 surroundings where the "rules" fit on a single page. Before that I lived in a neighborhood with pretty loose restrictions, and it was nice. The more I learn about the Villages though, the more uncomfortable I become. It's not the restrictions that bother me so much as it is the volume of the self-appointed "cops" that trouble me. The last thing I want to do is keep an attorney on retainer to explain to me what I can and cannot do with my life.

Back to the specific issue of pools and rec centers, it is my understanding that, by law, it is impossible to keep the general public out of these facilities, that is, non-amenity paying people. I forgot the specifics, but I do remember it having to do with public access, highways, or some such thing.

I will say this to everyone though: If I could do it all over again, I would have become a lawyer. A person could make a killing in the Villages. Where there's a perpetual stack of rules and money flowing, there is ripe opportunity to skim a percentage off the top.

I find it hard to believe that your information is on track. Would you have us believe that with all the lawyers in the area, practicing and former, that none of them would have already taken this to court?

You say you live where there are "rules". Is it ok for those not living there to come in and do as they please while you are bound by the rules?

We are not self-appointed cops, as you put it. I just don't like the idea of paying for something and then becoming unable to use what I pay for because others want something for free or very little cost to themselves. I am not unhappy; quite the contrary. I would just like to be able to stay that way and always have access to that for which I pay and am quite willing to do.

[downeaster]

Thanks Bogie. I am still considering it and have been for over a year. I don't have the specific rules in front of me either, but I have been told that Bison Valley owners can do some things but not others.

By reading these boards though, one senses an undercurrent of unhappiness in some Villagers. Yes, I realize that no community is perfect, and it's a very small percentage, but it will probably be enough to keep me away in the end. I am used to living in A-1 surroundings where the "rules" fit on a single page. Before that I lived in a neighborhood with pretty loose restrictions, and it was nice. The more I learn about the Villages though, the more uncomfortable I become. It's not the restrictions that bother me so much as it is the volume of the self-appointed "cops" that trouble me. The last thing I want to do is keep an attorney on retainer to explain to me what I can and cannot do with my life.

Back to the specific issue of pools and rec centers, it is my understanding that, by law, it is impossible to keep the general public out of these facilities, that is, non-amenity paying people. I forgot the specifics, but I do remember it having to do with public access, highways, or some such thing.

I will say this to everyone though: If I could do it all over again, I would have become a lawyer. A person could make a killing in the Villages. Where there's a perpetual stack of rules and money flowing, there is ripe opportunity to skim a percentage off the top.

Don't be put off by what you read here. There is a fund of misinformation here.

The restrictions here are no more onerous than the last two sub-divisions where I lived. ( Both had their share of self appointed "cops". ) I was in real estate prior to moving here and I can attest rules are better than no rules.

Amenities supported by residents are NOT open to the public. They are the property of the CDD (that's us).

Bison Valley is a very small village. Somewhere in this thread the number is mentioned but I believe it is less than 200 homes. The population here is pushing 80,000 so Bison Valley is a drop in the bucket. Evidently, for whatever reason, the developer gave those residence some or all of the priviledges of the rest of us. Some are not happy with this. I am not happy with it on principle but it is his/her prerogative. If I were buying here now knowing what I know I would not consider it a deal breaker. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it.

I am going to borrow from Ella Fitzgerald who is supposed to have said " I have been rich and I have been poor, rich is better". My version is " I have lived all over the US and I have live here eight years, here is better".

[sandybill2]

Outsiderwithinterest==you are right that you can arrive at these rec centers and pools via public roads but you should be denied access without a Village Card--either guest pass or Resident Pass. I am sure you have heard of Private Clubs, Country Clubs, etc., where you have to pay a fee to "belong." You would be denied access to them--regardless of what public road you used to get there. It is the same with our amenity fees---we pay them to have access to pools, rec center activities, etc. for ourselves and our guests. I really don't have a problem with the Bison residents using our golf cart trails--- I don't think there are many that do but I do appreciate all the people that work for The Villages. They are the ones that help make this a wonderful place to live but I also realize that jobs are scarce and that we should take care of each other.

[Bogie Shooter]

..........
Back to the specific issue of pools and rec centers, it is my understanding that, by law, it is impossible to keep the general public out of these facilities, that is, non-amenity paying people. I forgot the specifics, but I do remember it having to do with public access, highways, or some such thing......


your understanding based on who or what? Sorry but this how rumors get started. I believe what you are saying is hearsay, I doubt there ever were specifics.

[NJblue]

chuckster, if that is the case then I am wrong with my complaint on the entertainment. I thought it was part of the fee we pay.

Army Guy

The entertainment office is run by the developer and not the CDD. Hence no amenity fees are used for any entertainment (the squares, Katie Bells, Savannah Center, etc.) So, regardless of whether we like "droopy pants teenagers" at the squares, neither we nor the CDD have any say in whether they are to be allowed.

[Talk Host]

your understanding based on who or what? Sorry but this how rumors get started. I believe what you are saying is hearsay, I doubt there ever were specifics.

I'm please that you have proof to the contrary. We all want to hear the specifics of your correct information that rebuts the incorrect information.

[chuckster]

Huh???...........:confused:

[Bogie Shooter]

Huh???...........:confused:
:agree:

[2catsmeow]

It seems like the biggest problem Villagers are having is the free use of our amenities. Why doesn’t Bison Valley get together and assess the homeowner’s say $1500 (similar but different to our bond fee when we purchase our homes) – which would give them $150,000 for 100 homes – I don’t know how many homes are there – so I thought I would be conservative. That would be a great start for them to build a pool and a rec center of their own for meetings and get togethers – even have the bocce and shuffleboard courts. They can then charge every home an amenity fee of say $50 a month - again using the 100 home number - that would be $5000 a month for upkeep. They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available.

[Talk Host]

:agree:


It's not confusing at all.

You said that "Outsiderwithinterest's" comments were hearsay and that they were the stuff of rumors. I'm assuming that you have the real facts to rebut what you label as "hearsay" and their source. Failing that, what you post is hearsay as well.

[Bogie Shooter]

It's not confusing at all.

You said that "Outsiderwithinterest's" comments were hearsay and that they were the stuff of rumors. I'm assuming that you have the real facts to rebut what you label as "hearsay" and their source. Failing that, what you post is hearsay as well.
Maybe I should have just asked "outsiderwithinterest's" to back up there statement.

[dillywho]

It seems like the biggest problem Villagers are having is the free use of our amenities. Why doesn’t Bison Valley get together and assess the homeowner’s say $1500 (similar but different to our bond fee when we purchase our homes) – which would give them $150,000 for 100 homes – I don’t know how many homes are there – so I thought I would be conservative. That would be a great start for them to build a pool and a rec center of their own for meetings and get togethers – even have the bocce and shuffleboard courts. They can then charge every home an amenity fee of say $50 a month - again using the 100 home number - that would be $5000 a month for upkeep. They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available.

You are right, it would be a good way for them to have their own facilities. The problem I see is with your last statement, "They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available." Isn't that the same problem, only in reverse now?:confused:

[downeaster]

You are right, it would be a good way for them to have their own facilities. The problem I see is with your last statement, "They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available." Isn't that the same problem, only in reverse now?:confused:

Good point, dilliywho. This thread is a fund of misinformation and contradictions.

[2catsmeow]

I think you are making the assumption that Bison Valley would adopt the same rules and restrictions that we have here in the Villages. We do not know that – maybe since they are a ‘family friendly’ community they would welcome family and friends in the tri county community to enjoy their amenities? Who are we to say – and it was only an idea. People who purchased homes in the Villages knew the rules and restrictions when they bought their homes and for many that is why they decided to live here.

[HMLRHT1]

I have a friend who works for the entertainment part of The Villages. This the area that books all of the nightly entertainment in the town squares. I was told all of the entertainment was paid for by the drink shacks on the cornes of the squares. The more people that buy booze, the more money there is for entertainment. So they will not restrict it to just Villagers, but keep it open to the general public because this way it benefits everyone.

[Bryan]

A lot of good points being made here, and a lot of misconceptions. It is a complicated issue(s) so there will never be one answer that makes everyone happy.

Myself, I tend to lean towards the "more restrictive" side but am not totally in that camp. I really want our facilities for our (amenities paying residents) use but I see the need for exceptions. A lot has been made over support groups that meet once or twice a month (i.e. Parkinsons, AA, etc.). Surrounding communities don't have the population to support such groups so I think these should be allowed to have non-TV members. Outsiders use of our facilities for these events consists of coming to a meeting room in a rec center once or twice a month. NOTHING ELSE! I can live with that and think it is a good neighbor thing to do.

Sports is another area where I see some sharing. Visiting teams (softball, etc.) come here to play TV teams. TV teams go there to play them. Technically, those "visitors" are using our sports facilities and don't live here or pay amenities. I see no problem there. We also have some "deals" with area schools. TV High School Swim Team uses TV pools for practice and events. Again, I think that is acceptable.

Someone mentioned "selling" our amenities to outsiders. I am against that but it has already been done. Freedom Pointe is not part of TV but their residents have full amenity privileges. If "they" (the proverbial "they") can sell our amenities to Freedom Pointe, what's to stop them from selling them to Water Oaks, Spruce Creek South, or anyone else?

There was a lot of talk about the squares. They are not public land, they are private property. Ownership is not clear as a bell to me but I think it is in the developers hands through some sort of corporate deal. Why do you think we can walk around either square with drinks in our hands? It is because they are private property (albeit accessible by the public) so all those "open container" laws don't apply.

Public access to public places (i.e. most of our roads) is the law. Public access to private property is at the discretion, for the most part, of the owner. The owner of the squares opted for pretty open access for the public for business reasons, I presume. The owners of TV recreation facilities (that would be TV residents via their CDDs) opted for fairly closed access to their facilities. I think our real discussion has been defining "fairly closed" and how we enforce that.

It appears to me to be one of those issues that has no single, good answer.

[EdV]

....... The owners of TV recreation facilities (that would be TV residents via their CDDs) opted for fairly closed access to their facilities..........

TV residents and their respective CDD's do not own the recreation facilities. Never have and never will. They are owned by the developer and/or the two special CDD's (VCCDD and SLCDD) which the developer controls.

But aside from that, you've brought up some interesting points.

[GMONEY]

You are right, it would be a good way for them to have their own facilities. The problem I see is with your last statement, "They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available." Isn't that the same problem, only in reverse now?:confused:


Just what I was thinking, just the reverse of what you are saying now. There are 99 homes in Bison Valley. The Villages runs the HOA in Bison Valley. But now that the majority of the lots are sold we are in the position to vote them out and vote our own in. Seems everyone thnks we have full access to TV amenities. We have no access what so ever except the Cart Path entrance off of Woodridge. Other than that nothing what so ever. The only ones from Bison Valley that have access to the pools would be those that have family members that are Village Residents. We even have Village residents that sold their homes and bought in Bison Valley to escape the bonds and all the politcal mombo jumbo that you read on here, and in the process gave up all the access they had to TV pools, clubs, golf and all that.


Somewhere along the line as gossip or rumors go, someone threw a line of incorrect info and the rest bit it hook, sinker and all. We are owned by The Villages and even must get approval from the ARC to make changes to the property site, just as if we were Village Residnets ourselves. The only problem would be that we have to do all of that, but the Village decompliance does not patrol our area. Kinda wierd how it works..

Now alot of people have tried to buy into Bison Valley, but for the most part everyone I know that lives in there either work for The Villages in some way or part or have family members who are Village Residents. There are some rental homes in there. There are members of TV sales staff that live in there, and maybe they have special access to Villages recreational spots I dont know. BUt for the most part the rest of us dont.


that would sum it up for BISON VALLEY. such a little place that caused so much headache. Hard to believe.... As I said there are more people that park at the squares and rent golf carts and use the cart paths more then we ever do. Dont here much about that. Had some folks this weekend riding in there on rental golf carts checking all the areas out. They were from Oregon. but they just rented the cart from Lake Sumter Landing and had full access to all cart paths. Now do they have a special charge on the rental for the cart paths??????????

[downeaster]

TV residents and their respective CDD's do not own the recreation facilities. Never have and never will. They are owned by the developer and/or the two special CDD's (VCCDD and SLCDD) which the developer controls.

But aside from that, you've brought up some interesting points.

Ed, you are correct in that the VCCDD and SLCDD are controlled by the developer as they are "elected" by him as the only property owner in their districts.

However, Florida statues have considerable control over them. It is all explained at this site www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0190/titl0190.htm&StatuteYear=2007&Title=->2007->Chapter%20190

A test of real ownership would be the ability to sell their property. Can the two special CDD's sell any property such as rec centers,golf courses, etc? At an orientation I attended when I first moved here it was categorically statd they can not sell the property.

There were sound business reasons the developer set up the special districts. Among other things, some faction could get control and effectively stop his progress in its tracks. I have been there and it is not nice. There are no winners.

When build out is complete will things change? I have no idea but my guess is it will be minor. There will be some infighting and squabbling but we will be so well established we will likely carry on as usual.