Joe Biden???

[Guest]

Just wondering.......Why did Barrack Obama choose Joe Biden when had chossen Hillary Clinton he would surely have increased his chances to be our next President??? Was it that his ego was just to big or does Hillary have hopes for 2012???

[Guest]

As much as I strongly supported Hillary, I feel that Obama made a good choice with Biden because of his long history with international relations. Sure sounds like a good match to me.

My only concern is what Hillary has up her sleeve; sure do hope that she supports the DNC effort with no "sour grapes" to weaken the party.

[Guest]

It sounds like Hillary has and will support Obama, but why.......she must want to run in 2012. If he wins he would want a second term and that would leave her out. Wouldn't it??

[Guest]

Yeah...my thoughts also. I just can't figure out what's in it for her??? Maybe some appointment. Or maybe help with her campaign debt..

[Guest]

Rab! Are you talkin' to yourself? LOLOL 1rnfl Sorry, just teasing.

I agree with Barb. Biden was a great choice both for Foreign Affairs and being the Pitbull he can be when he wants to be. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

Joe Biden has a good reputation. He is outspoken where Obama can be overly considerate. Biden is a man of faith being a strong Catholic (although most Republicans believe Catholics aren't Christian?). Biden appeals to the working man. Obama has been criticized for not having enough experience domestic and foreign, for being too young and for being black. Biden is the perfect balance. Obama has made a wise choice. Most importantly, Obama was right about Iraq. He is showing great leadership potential. Both Obama and Biden are strong supporters of the Middle Class. Bush and the Republicans have been raging a highly successful war on the Middle Class for eight years. It is time for a change!

[Guest]

Since when don't Republicans think Catholics are Christian??? That's a new one. If Biden is such a strong Catholic, why is he pro choice?

[Guest]

I don't think Dem's have a choice but to like him (Biden). They will say he has all that foreign relations experience. In reality, he is a thirty year political hack who has made a living on the taxpayers and he is a two time loser for President. They should have stuck with Hillary and the baggage car that follows her around.

[Guest]

Joe Biden has a good reputation. He is outspoken where Obama can be overly considerate. Biden is a man of faith being a strong Catholic (although most Republicans believe Catholics aren't Christian?).

Excuse me?? Speaking for all of us, are you JJ??

[Guest]

JohnnyM says that Joe Biden is a "thirty year political hack" and a "two time loser". Those who are supporting the Republican side have said that Senator Obama is too young and too inexperienced to be President. So he picks a respected Senator who may be the best qualified member of the Congress on foreign relations as his choice for vice president and his choice is pilloried. Sometimes a person simply can't win.

Too bad that our discussions here can't address the issues that will effect us all when one or the other candidate is elected rather than shallow personal attacks. Negative advertising may be what the political operatives are telling John McCain he has to do to win, but no one is forcing any of us to follow that advice.

Anyone wish to discuss the positions of the candidates on issues like fiscal policy, foreign relations, the economy, the war in Iraq, or some other issue of importance to us all? Start a new thread in the Political Forum.

[Guest]

Since when don't Republicans think Catholics are Christian??? That's a new one. If Biden is such a strong Catholic, why is he pro choice?


There are many Catholics that are very liberal! I say thank God for them!!!

[Guest]

VK, just because Biden can name all the heads of state does not make him the so called mentor for the inexperienced Obama. What has Joe Biden accomplished in thirty years? Worse than that he is unknown to many people on the street. You are being quite disingenuous as there is plenty of negative attacks coming out of Obama's camp. What's with the 70,000 seat football field to announce his acceptance speech? I guess the convention center where all his peons spoke just wasn't big enough to carry all that ego with him.

[Guest]

Can't believe I am posting in political...but, here goes.

Back to the original question, I believe that Obama picked Biden (aside from his qualifications) for chemistry reasons. Perhaps Hillary might have brought more votes but the chemistry between Obama and Hillary (with Bill looming in the shadows) might not be good. So, Obama picked someone he is comfortable with.

McCain may face the same choice....pick a running mate he knows and is comfortable with or the most politically expedient choice without the chemistry (e.g. Romney).

[Guest]

If discussion of how many heads of state can be named or the size of the venue for an acceptance speech helps anyone really reach any conclusions regarding the candidates, I'd be disappointed in this group. I know that kind of banter doesn't help me decide.

How about this for something more meaningful to debate...

In the past eight years the federal treasury has moved from a balanced budget to annual spending exceeding revenues so dramatically that a deficit of almost $10 trillion dollars has resulted. The U.S. has become the largest debtor nation in the world by a significant measure. John McCain says he will continue the fiscal policies of the past eight years and has made further tax cuts an important plank in his campaign platform. Barack Obama on the other hand has presented a variety of campaign proposals without clearly delineating how they would be paid for. Adoption of such proposals would also further increase the deficit. Some financial experts have opined that neither candidate can fulfill their campaign promises without further increases in the deficit and that either dramatic spending cuts or significant increases in tax revenues will be necessary to begin to reduce the deficit.

Which candidate appears the more likely to begin the process of the necessary fiscal discipline needed to return the sorely needed balance to the costs of the federal government? Which one should we entrust to resolve the U.S. fiscal crisis for the next four years?

[Guest]

This forum is not worth ruining friendships. Whoever gets in, God Bless him and the United States of America.

[Guest]

Personally, I would have been happy if Obama had picked Hillary. But, many of my friends and family really do not like her. I think Joe Biden may have been a safer pick.
One person said to me, "With Joe Biden on the ticket, I'm a little closer to voting for Obama."

[Guest]

Villages Kahuna, I agree with you!

Unfortunately, for most people an election is a popularity contest. To intelligently analyze the issues takes knowledge, some insight into the problems and some very serious and unemotional thought. Most people do not critically read---other than the sports page---and don't want to think too much. They would rather sit by the boob tube and watch and listen to sound bites, be fed by "news" reporters reading from a script written by someone else, or listening to talking heads who have their own agenda.
Address the issues? You've got to be kidding! That takes mental energy.

[Guest]

Personally, I would have been happy if Obama had picked Hillary. But, many of my friends and family really do not like her. I think Joe Biden may have been a safer pick.
One person said to me, "With Joe Biden on the ticket, I'm a little closer to voting for Obama."


I agree. Being from New York, where she is very popular, I'm a Hillary fan. But to many people she's a turn off. Picking Biden probably increases the chances of garnering votes from independents.

[Guest]

There are many Catholics that are very liberal

Yes, like my mother in law for example. She also says she would vote for a chimpanzee if it meant keeping the Dems in power. Nothing like putting some thought into your vote huh? ;D

[Guest]

Oh yeah, and Obama picked Biden because he needed a set of balls to do his dirty work for him.

[Guest]

Sid, that's kind of smart but I think Obama may have more testicular fortitude than you are giving him credit for. We shall see.

[Guest]

Boy Sid, I love to see you in a debate with Senator Obama. You're so articulate. 1rnfl

BTW, I'm Catholic and Pro Choice. Go figure! :dontknow:

[Guest]

Sid, that's kind of smart but I think Obama may have more testicular fortitude than you are giving him credit for. We shall see.


You are probably correct but.....
Obama has an underlying thug-type personality that he keeps bundled up so noone can see it hence the Biden choice. There are youtube videos where you can watch and listen to BHO change into an entirely different personality than what we see in the news. When he isn't concentrating on how he speaks and acts he becomes, like I said, thug-like. Many people have commented on his lack of communication skills without a prompter and speechwriter, underneath, he is just another streetwise punk, IMHO.

[Guest]

Boy Sid, I love to see you in a debate with Senator Obama. You're so articulate. 1rnfl

BTW, I'm Catholic and Pro Choice. Go figure! :dontknow:


btw....I am catholic too, atleast brought up and still believe a lot of....but I am pro-choice and gay....Go figure!!!! ;)

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl 1rnfl

But no offense to anyone!!! Gosh I do open my mouth too much sometimes...but that is what this place is for....

[Guest]

Kahuna,

I like your style of trying to get away from the demonizations and instead, discussing issues. Here's my take on this topic:

Yes, the national debt has increased over the last 8 years, but a large part of that was the Bush administration's support for a typically Democratic agenda - more entitlements (prescription drugs for the elderly) and more education expenses (No Child Left Behind). Yes, the war played a big role too, but one must be intellectually honest and admit that Dems supported it as well. (Recall that it was the Clinton administration who first pushed for regime change in Iraq, and that Al Gore, in early 2002 was one of the first to call for a "final solution" for Saddam. Also recall that most Dems in Congress voted for the war.)

The other piece of the puzzle regarding debt is revenues. The simplistic view is that the tax cuts resulted in the debt growing. However, this ignores the fact that tax receipts went up significantly after tax cuts were enacted - giving credence to the notion that lower taxes do stimulate the economy thus creating higher overall revenue collected by the government.

So, where does this leave us in terms of this election. Obama, if nothing else, wants to be more of a Democrat than his predecessors with even more spending. So, that means more outflow. However, he wants to also raise taxes ... but only on the "rich" (I've heard that line before). So, somehow this top 2 percent or whatever of the population will be responsible for supporting all of the increased spending that he proposes (not to mention the tax "cuts" that he is dangling in front of the naive who think he will actually do that ... I'm still waiting for the middle class tax cuts that Clinton promised). Also, this tax increase will somehow be done without hurting the economy. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Obama's degree is in alchemy.

That's not to say that I'm letting McCain off the hook on this issue. He says that he wants to keep all of the Bush tax cuts intact. Perhaps this balance of tax cuts on the various economic classes is exactly precise in terms of providing optimal stimulation to the economy, but I personally would like to see him take a more open view on perhaps jiggling with the rates for different groups. However, at least McCain seems pretty good from the spending perspective so even if he does nothing on the income side of the equation, he likely won't do much damage on the expense side. The same can not be said for Obama.

[Guest]

I thought Jay Leno's comment was funny...Biden has 30 years experience in Washington and he and Barrack together now offer 31 years experience.......badda....bump...ta bump.....tish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTK :joke:

[Guest]

If Hillary got the Dem nomination, would she have picked Obama as her running mate?

When, if ever, did the nominated person pick their closest rival as their VP?

I like Hillary very much (and supported her) but why does Obama "owe" her the VP position?

I don't get it.

[Guest]

If Hillary got the Dem nomination, would she have picked Obama as her running mate?

When, if ever, did the nominated person pick their closest rival as their VP?

I like Hillary very much (and supported her) but why does Obama "owe" her the VP position?

I don't get it.


Your 2nd question first, it's not unknown to happen. The two most prominent "recent" examples are Kennedy/Johnson and Reagan/Bush.

As to whether she would have chosen him, had the primary been that close, it's possible. I agree that Hillary was not "owed" the slot, but this was a very, very unusual primary race and Obama was/is a very unusual candidate. I thought there was no way she would get the nod, but that was because of Bill. Had Hillary been any other female Dem with similar or more extensive credentials and similar primary results, she would have had a better shot. Could be wrong, tho.

[Guest]

How can you be a strong Catholic and be for abortion like Biden.
Time to talk to your confessor.

[Guest]

How can you be a strong Catholic and be for abortion like Biden.
Time to talk to your confessor.



I do not think anyone said they were FOR abortion...please do not put words in our mouths...however what we said was that we were FOR a woman having a choice. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions, their own choices and have their own belief system. We are not put on this earth to judge, condemn or dictate...we are here to love and live our own life and have our beliefs. Women and Men should be allowed to choose what they want with their own bodies. This is not pro-abortion. I also do not think that Mr. Biden is pro-abortion and has never stated so. He simply believes that we are in America...land of the FREE....meaning...FREE to make ones own choices.

My opinion on abortion for myself is my OWN business....no one should tell me how to believe or act. I believe in PRO-CHOICE....

[Guest]

:agree: Cassie! Well said.

[Guest]

I do not think anyone said they were FOR abortion...please do not put words in our mouths...however what we said was that we were FOR a woman having a choice. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions, their own choices and have their own belief system. We are not put on this earth to judge, condemn or dictate...we are here to love and live our own life and have our beliefs. Women and Men should be allowed to choose what they want with their own bodies. This is not pro-abortion. I also do not think that Mr. Biden is pro-abortion and has never stated so. He simply believes that we are in America...land of the FREE....meaning...FREE to make ones own choices.

My opinion on abortion for myself is my OWN business....no one should tell me how to believe or act. I believe in PRO-CHOICE....



Good job, Cassie!!

So well said.

[Guest]

Thank you for your support Ladies....I got a little fired up! Thankfully it was morning and not the late afternoon after 2 for 1's! I might not have been so nice!! ;)

[Guest]

I do not think anyone said they were FOR abortion...please do not put words in our mouths...however what we said was that we were FOR a woman having a choice. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions, their own choices and have their own belief system. We are not put on this earth to judge, condemn or dictate...we are here to love and live our own life and have our beliefs. Women and Men should be allowed to choose what they want with their own bodies. This is not pro-abortion. I also do not think that Mr. Biden is pro-abortion and has never stated so. He simply believes that we are in America...land of the FREE....meaning...FREE to make ones own choices.

My opinion on abortion for myself is my OWN business....no one should tell me how to believe or act. I believe in PRO-CHOICE....

Cassie325,

I'm a proud conservitave Republican and I can't agree with you more.
I don't want the government in my business and I cant think of a more intrusive way that that could happen than in a women's right to decide what SHE wants to do with her body. I'm sure It's a gut wrenching decision and should be made by yourself to the best of your ability. Beside there is a chance of death to the mother that should be taken into consideration. Benj

[Guest]

Bless you benj!! Rebublican, Democrat, Jewish, Christian, Black, White...and everything in between!!!! Freedom is Freedom!

OH....why can't we just all get a long! ;)

[Guest]

Maybe it's because I'm male that I ask this question, but...

Should the candidate's position on pro-choice or pro-life be the litmus test that supercedes their positions on all the other issues facing the U.S.?

Remember, I asked should it be, not would it be?

[Guest]

Absolutely not...IMHO....there are many other issues in the world and in this country that are far more important. Plus even if they tried to fight Roe Vs Wade....it would be a mighty fight! So NO let's focus on other issues that need immediate attention....

The point was that someone decided to put words in our mouths....saying we were pro-abortion versus pro-choice...and there is a big difference.

;D

[Guest]

We were talking about Biden being a good CATHOLIC.
Has nothing to do with FREEDOM.
If you are a good Catholic, you are not pro-choise.

[Guest]

We were talking about Biden being a good CATHOLIC.
Has nothing to do with FREEDOM.
If you are a good Catholic, you are not pro-choise.


There are many catholics in this world that are indeed pro-choice. So you have the right to say that I am NOT a good Catholic because I am pro-choice....know one has the right to do that.

Also....I am sure there are MANY other reasons you will find about me that in your opinion makes me a BAD Catholic....but again it really is not any of your business...

[Guest]

I agree with Cassie. We are not running for office. I'm a Catholic and I am completely Pro-Choice. It is none of your business.

What I really don't like is the message this unwed pregnant seventeen year old sends to the young girls of this country. Very accepting parents and a gunshot wedding great! Now watch the rise in unmarried teen pregnancies. Can you just imagine if this was Obama's daughter! :yikes:

I guess it's Country First, Condoms Second (or not at all if it was up to Sarah Palin.)

[Guest]

I agree with Cassie. We are not running for office. I'm a Catholic and I am completely Pro-Choice. It is none of your business.

What I really don't like is the message this unwed pregnant seventeen year old sends to the young girls of this country. Very accepting parents and a gunshot wedding great! Now watch the rise in unmarried teen pregnancies. Can you just imagine if this was Obama's daughter! :yikes:

I guess it's Country First, Condoms Second (or not at all if it was up to Sarah Palin.)



Chels...while I love you and agree with MOST everything you say...I just wanted to make clear that I wasn't even focusing on the unwed part....I had a child "outside" of a marriage...however I was 23, fully educated and employed with insurance....

My biggest issue is the fact that she is 17 years old and still in high school. It makes me think that we will have Gloucester, Mass all over again.....

17 years old! :'( :'( :'(

[Guest]

No Cassie, you might be focusing on it, but I am. I don't want Sarah Palin anywhere near making laws for MY daughter or anyone else's for that matter.

[Guest]

I really just don't want every teen girl in America thinking they should go get pregnant so they can married and live happily ever after! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me....over all we are in agreement.....

Thanks!!!

;)

[Guest]

I don't "mind" that the girl is pregnant nor that she is planning to get married right after graduation. It is none of my business. At the same time, if this were my daughter, I would be pushing hard for no marriage at this time.

Cassie, I agree that this isn't the best message to give American kids but there's really not much Palin can do about it. Her daughter is pregnant at 17. We have no idea how many battles there were at home before the parents agreed to a wedding. As I said, the best we can do is use things like this to give life lessons to our sons and daughters (or at least discussions).

What does bother me is that Palin thinks that teaching abstinance is the best sex ed for high schoolers. It seems like her daughter proves that doesn't work. Sarah Palin doesn't want "graphic sex education" in the schools. Personally, I don't want my daughter unmarried, pregnant and having a history of STDs. An abstinance curriculum does not give sufficient information IMO.

[Guest]

Hope the topic cop doesn't scold me....slightly off topic....but....
back in, I think it was about 1989/90 or so, I wrote a letter to Paul Tagliabue, football commissioner. I requested that he take a long hard look at reinstating Dexter Manley again as he had repeated drug charges. I noted that he (Manley), as an outstanding football player, was held in high regard by our very impressionable youth, and as a psychologist, I was seriously concerned by the NFL's decision to allow him to continue playing. I realize that Manley had dealt with many issues of his own (learning disabilities), and that he was an incredibly talented man; however, there was a bigger issue at hand for me. Eventually, he was not reinstated b/c he could not pass the drug tests.

I guess the reason I wrote this was b/c becoming outraged by various issues is directly related to our own experiences in life, or what ever we hold to be near and dear to our hearts IMHO. At the time, I could not understand why other folks were not as passionate about this issue as I was. As I said once before, "thoughtful people(folks who consider issues) can and will disagree."

BTW....I never heard from Mr. Tagliabue.

md blondie

[Guest]

How this went from Biden to pregnancy....AGAIN..... but any way.
Do any of you even know a parent that has the misfortune to have this happen?
I mean someone you know...not like some think they know Palin.
Are they bad mothers? Bad parents? Bad people?

This whole Palin pregnancy thing is so over blown....so non value adding...and so none of anybody's business.

As the saying goes $_it happens...like all the skeletons in all the closets of so many past AND current politicians who do a heck of a lot worse.
Our permissive society just cannot in good conscience single any one out and tout it as any worse than another...most don't care....obvious by what we tolerate in our elected officials.

The continuing perpetration of an issue like this is mind boggling. :dontknow: :dontknow:

How about a subject of substance for a change instead of continuous tabloid sensationalism?

BTK

[Guest]

BTK, you obviously are not a woman and perhaps do not have a daughter. It becomes an issue when the V.P. casts the deciding tie-breaking vote.

Again, I would not want this woman anywhere near MY daughter. Just MY opinion. It IS an issue.

[Guest]

Joe Biden is still lying about the dumbest things. I mean this guy just lies by rote.

Again, he referred to the death of his former wife and child in a care accident 20 some years ago as caused by a drunk driver. This is clearly not true and he knows it.

Obama should dump HIM from the ticket. Sarah is a God send for McCain.

[Guest]

:bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

I suppose if Palins daughter got an abortion, everything would be OK?????

[Guest]

Kahuna, You nailed it on this one.




Maybe it's because I'm male that I ask this question, but...

Should the candidate's position on pro-choice or pro-life be the litmus test that supercedes their positions on all the other issues facing the U.S.?

Remember, I asked should it be, not would it be?

[Guest]

Kahuna, you're right, it should not be the only thing. I'm just not buying the whole package.

[Guest]

BTK I agree with you. All sorts of $_it happens in families, whether you are an elected official or not. This pregnancy at this age is tough for everyone. But they will get through it like millions of others past, present and we can guarantee in the future.
You can't hold it against parents. All parents do what they believe is best for their kids....and then they leave the house....all we can do is pray.

How this got off the Joe Bidden link....Lord only knows.

[Guest]

How this got off the Joe Bidden link....Lord only knows.
__________________________________________________ _________

It is something......the Rev Jeremiah Wright, radical pastor FOR TWENTY YEARS, of maybe our next President did not get as much attention as the daughter and boyfriend of the VP candidate.

I am not sure what it shows but this full assault on Gov Palin the last few days simply has made the election of a President sort of secondary in discussion. I do understand there has to be a public vetting of the Gov, but lets talk about the Presidential candidates background just half as much and do half as much research on Sen Obama and Sen McCain.

Nobody talks about the Keating five or Rev Wright, but they sure take this young teenage girl and her boyfriend very seriously...talk about the many Sen Biden quotes over the years or Gov Palin public policies.

[Guest]

Just watched Joe Biden on Meet the Press and couldn't be more pleased with Senator Obama's choice for V.P. :#1:


He's not going to put on kid gloves for his debate with Sarah Palin. He doesn't have to . . . she came out bashing and snarling. I thought this was not a good call by the RNC. Yet another! Why am I surprised. :o

[Guest]

Just watched Joe Biden on Meet the Press and couldn't be more pleased with Senator Obama's choice for V.P. :#1:


He's not going to put on kid gloves for his debate with Sarah Palin. He doesn't have to . . . she came out bashing and snarling. I thought this was not a good call by the RNC. Yet another! Why am I surprised. :o


:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

She was completely on the defense....about everything!

[Guest]

I was totally ready to like Joe Biden, I've heard so many good things. I felt letdown by his explanations of the different topics questioned by George S. My opinion only, but I missed what generated the hype on this candidate. And all Democratic everything in Washington D.C. is beginning to worry me.... :dontknow:

[Guest]

For more years of McBush and his choices are worrying me deeply.

[Guest]

For more years of McBush and his choices are worrying me deeply.


Chels

If Mcbush is fair then LORD OBAMA is fair too. Benj

[Guest]

....and four more years of a Democratic controlled Senate and Congress which is really the tail that wags the dog. Barrack introduced Joe Biden as the next president of the USA and then corrected it to vice president but I think we know who will run that show. Barrack does not have the experience to hit the floor running and he has no time period in which to learn, he will be president, if elected. Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?

(Benj, that Lord Obama is a total turnoff for me, he has a name let's use it and discuss the issues on the table.)

[Guest]

....and four more years of a Democratic controlled Senate and Congress which is really the tail that wags the dog. Barrack introduced Joe Biden as the next president of the USA and then corrected it to vice president but I think we know who will run that show. Barrack does not have the experience to hit the floor running and he has no time period in which to learn, he will be president, if elected. Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?

(Benj, that Lord Obama is a total turnoff for me, he has a name let's use it and discuss the issues on the table.)

Hey peachie I quit using LORD OBAMA some time ago. One of the libs said "i dont use MCBUSH you shouldn't use LORD OBAMA I stopped as to not cloud my brilliant and witty posts by turning off people .
Did you post to chels about MCBUSH??? Benj

[Guest]

I, personally, am looking at the candidates we are discussing and not President Bush. But as long as you brought it up, I don't like name calling.

[Guest]

So peachie,

Is calling McCain McBush name calling? Benj

[Guest]

OK, Benj. You and I will stop using McBush and Lord Obama. It's agreed. We'll just debate on our "brilliant and witty" posts, as you put it. ;D

[Guest]

OK, Benj. You and I will stop using McCain and Lord Obama. It's agreed. We'll just debate on our "brilliant and witty" posts, as you put it. ;D


Chels I hope you ment McBush and if so thanks and I agree.

Cassie,

What is sexist and disgustful is dragging a 17 year old young ladies private life into a campaign and deciding by yourself all the issues surrounding her life and personal business. Benj

[Guest]

Thanks Benj, I changed it! :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

Feel better, Benj? I do ;D. We all sound even more brilliant without that riffraff. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

Well, this started as "Why Joe Biden?"

The answer to that is simple and obvious. Sen. Biden is a mainstay in the Democratic Party (36 years as a senator from Delaware) and provides two key qualities: 1) he is believed to be able to draw the blue-collar rust-belt vote away from Sen. McCain, and 2) is ready to accept VP as his "swan song" from a Delaware elective office, making way for his son, the current Attorney General of Delaware to seek and hopefully easily acquire the "family" senatorial seat.

Sen. Biden has as much of a role and a kinship to Sen. Obama's camp as Sen. Johnson did in Sen. (later President) Kennedy's. Biden, like Johnson, is considered a "political necessity" during the campaign - an that's the end of the line for him after that.

For the voters, politics can be a clash of ideals and opinions. For the professional politicians, it is a business, and business partnerships and mergers occur only for the classical business reasons: 1) get rid of a competitor; and 2) make profit (votes). Just look at the "business" of both campaigns without idealistic rose-colored glasses - it's not pretty and sure isn't idealistic.

I'm not excluding the Republican Party from applying business tactics to politics. Both sides follow these "rules," hoping the customer (voter) is too dumb or blind to notice.

[Guest]

Chels I hope you ment McBush and if so thanks and I agree.

Cassie,

What is sexist and disgustful is dragging a 17 year old young ladies private life into a campaign and deciding by yourself all the issues surrounding her life and personal business. Benj


You know I had/have concerns and still do!!

I am allowed to have those concerns....but this isn't even the right post for this discussion...but I believe you have already told how WRONG I was in the other posting about this....

My opinions are not wrong....and I have NEVER said this is why I am not voting for McCain/PAlin....if you go and look at the posting I made "concerns as a mom" then you would see that I was not doing as you claim I am ..........

I believe that in this forum we are ALOUD to speak our minds and give our opinions....that is what I did....

Isn't that what our admins allow us to do??

[Guest]

I agree with Cassie. We are not running for office. I'm a Catholic and I am completely Pro-Choice. It is none of your business.

What I really don't like is the message this unwed pregnant seventeen year old sends to the young girls of this country. Very accepting parents and a gunshot wedding great! Now watch the rise in unmarried teen pregnancies. Can you just imagine if this was Obama's daughter! :yikes:

I guess it's Country First, Condoms Second (or not at all if it was up to Sarah Palin.)

The religion of a candidate should not be a matter of political concern. Whether a politician is pro-death (as opposed to pro-life) or not, and whether that position is contrary to the politican's stated association with a religious entity (in this case, Catholicism) should solely be among the politician, his/her religious counselor/leader, and God (presuming that being religious means in believing there is a God).

Bluntly, the Roman Catholic Church has already addressed the Church's position on the subject.

... The Church's ethical opinion with regard to divorce and procured abortion is unambivalent and known to all: these are grave sins which, to a different extent and taking into account the evaluation of subjective responsibility, harm the dignity of the human person, involve a profound injustice in human and social relations and offend God himself, Guarantor of the conjugal covenant and the Author of life. ... excerpt from the Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to Participants in an International Congress Organized by the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family,Clementine Hall, Saturday, 5 April 2008 (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2008/april/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20080405_istituto-gpii_en.html)

[Guest]

SteveZ, you said you are a father of daughters. I have a question, if you care to answer it. If God Forbid, your daughter was raped or there was a case of incest from strange Uncle Louie, would you want her to have the baby?

I really wouldn't be asking if you had not referred to Pro-Choice as Pro-death.

[Guest]

SteveZ, you said you are a father of daughters. I have a question, if you care to answer it. If God Forbid, your daughter was raped or there was a case of incest from strange Uncle Louie, would you want her to have the baby?

I really wouldn't be asking if you had not referred to Pro-Choice as Pro-death.

I wish I had a dime for every time my spouse and I, and my daughters, talked about this issue and situations which match your hypothetical. That new Maserati woulds already be on order....

Whenever someone is the victim of a crime or injustice, they suffer. The suffering may be physical, psychological or both, but the suffering is real.

Following your hypothetical, "strange Uncle Louie" would receive a prison term or incarceration at an institution for the criminally insane. He would not be put to death, nor would society condone his execution by any family member.

If during the criminal act, "Louie" sliced off a daughter's limb or other body part, that would be part of the suffering of the victim, but society would not amputate any of "Louie's" limbs in retaliation.

The daughter, if pregnant, would find herself akin to someone harmed. However, retaliating on the unborn child (it's not a mass of jello, but a life!) serves no moral or ethical purpose - "Louie" is not affected at all, and no "justice" is served! It's a third party with no voice in the matter and no means of self-protection who would now bear the worst.

For the daughter, having the baby would be a necessity for her to maintain her humanity. Does she have the free will to abort? Yes, as God has given her as part of that humanity the ability to exercise free will. However, exercising free will does not make an action right, as wrong actions (just like "Louie"s) result from exercising free will as well. Knowing the difference is where the teachings of one's religion and family values come into play.

Would it be a burden - Yes.

Would it be "embarrassing" - depends on the character of the people around you.

Would it mean putting life somewhat on-hold, such as school or career - undoubtedly, but the same is true for most rehabilitation, physical and psychological.

Would the family find itself with having to support the daughter in ways never expected - sure, but that happens with being a family as life never works to a programmed script.

Would the child be adopted outside the family - most likely, as the "waiting list" for infants in the US by desirous families is staggeringly long and the "supply" is very limited.

That's what we've discussed as a family. That's the beliefs we hold and why. The alternative is to say one is against capital punishment, except when the victim of a crime declares a third party as being vicariously liable for the act of another, and the third party doesn't even get an opportunity to defend him/herself in any way.

You don't make the victim whole by killing an innocent.

Living up to the beliefs is where it gets tough, but we have our faith and ourselves to lean on.


Epilogue - Life is not fair, but we believe...

[Guest]

SteveZ, We agree to disagree. But I thank you for your thoughtful answer. It sounds like you have a wonderful family and I hope you do get that Maserati you want one day. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?
__________________________________________________ ______________________

No...I am really ready and looking forward to them

[Guest]

Steve Z

I am speechless .

that was a perfect answer to a difficult question. And so clearly shows the difference between a liberal and conservative point of view. I hope our country is not going down that path. Benj