Handicap Placard Stolen

[big guy]

My wife and I went to Beef O'Bradys at Colony Plaza for dinner tonight. We went in the golf cart and parked in a handicapped spot. I have a handicap placard and it was clipped to the steering wheel. The placard was there when we went into Beef's but it was gone when we returned. At that time, I would say that it was all Villagers coming from the golf courses who were dining there. What kind of low life steals a handicap placard?!

[Chatbrat]

Maybe its a person who is fed up with seeing non-handicapped persons driving with these placards-like the person I saw driving a bright yellow Ferrari-with handicap tags- or wives shopping with handicapped placards -even though they're not handicapped

[billethkid]

I would not be so quick to allude to it most likely was done by a resident. (that is how it comes across to me.....I could be wrong).

[dbussone]

FL provides 2 placards. We keep one in our car (or my wife's purse if she is going out). The other is taped to the inside of our golf cart lower windshield for exactly the reason noted by the OP.

[outlaw]

Maybe its a person who is fed up with seeing non-handicapped persons driving with these placards-like the person I saw driving a bright yellow Ferrari-with handicap tags- or wives shopping with handicapped placards -even though they're not handicapped

My personal measure: If you are not in a wheel chair, using crutches, or dragging an oxygen tank, you are abusing the system. I especially like the ones where the "handicap" guy gets out of the low sports car like a corvette or a lifted truck that would almost require a step ladder to get into. I once saw a guy come out of a grocery store with a large cooler full of ice, and hoist it into his "handicap" truck bed.

[dbussone]

My personal measure: If you are not in a wheel chair, using crutches, or dragging an oxygen tank, you are abusing the system. I especially like the ones where the "handicap" guy gets out of the low sports car like a corvette or a lifted truck that would almost require a step ladder to get into. I once saw a guy come out of a grocery store with a large cooler full of ice, and hoist it into his "handicap" truck bed.

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.

You seem to have a negative view on lots of issue. Try smiling once in awhile.

[jnieman]

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.

You seem to have a negative view on lots of issue. Try smiling once in awhile.

You are spot on with your reply. Some people look healthy but have a serious illness and cannot walk very well or they may have a heart condition or cancer or recent surgery or MS. We have no idea. Why ruin your day and theirs and start a confrontation over it. Too bad some low life took her handicapped placard.

[Retiring]

I don't live in TV (yet) so I can't speak about placard abusers. BUT it's unfair to suggest the OP is not deserving of handicap parking status. No, no one has said it explicitly but it is implied. My fianc� had a temporary (2 month) placard after foot surgery. Extreme pain below the ankle. A Nissan Sentra isn't a Ferrari or monster truck but if she had one of those she would not of had any problems getting in or out.

We don't know what happened to the placard but if it was actually stolen than yes, that thief is a true low life - whether he or she is a villager or not. I have no doubt the overwhelming majority of residents are wonderful people but it would be naive to think TV is made up of 110,000 saints.

[Sable99]

I have a handicapped placard in my car for my 91 year old mother. Her placard is for her heart and her hips. She can't walk long distances without a walker and needs a motored cart in a store. I do not park in a handicapped spot unless she is with me.

I will say it drives me crazy when I see a teenager running into a store from a handicapped spot. Happens a lot here in Michigan. But, I do agree that, not every handicapped person looks handicapped.

Years ago, I made the wrong assumption while I was waiting in my car for my aunt to come out of a doctor's appointment. A muscular looking, young man drove into the parking lot in a bright red, low to the ground, convertible with the music blarring. Why was he backing into a handicapped spot??

I was shocked when he reached into his back seat (while he was sitting in the front seat) and pulled out his wheelchair. No wonder he was muscular -- he had been rolling his chair!

[asianthree]

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.

You seem to have a negative view on lots of issue. Try smiling once in awhile.

:BigApplause: you are correct. One should that judge why there's a handicap sticker in a car. Since we have a handicap sticker and short distances is what can be walked some people just need to get over it. Good for wife being capable with MS to walk short distances its a great accomplishment.

[JoMar]

People continue to show their ignorance on here by not understanding what the placard represents. Those that have them required a doctor to assess conditions and determine if their condition warrants a plate/placard. For those of you that believe your definition of handicap (must be a wheelchair, crutches, walker etc). is the law then I have empathy for you for not being informed. Next time you visit your doctor ask to see the form so you are informed on what is included. I do believe that there is some abuse, when the placard holder drives and drops someone off. They then park in a handicap spot and sit in the car until the person comes out of the store.....my favorite. The placard should never be used in your cart or in a car that has it's windows lowered or doors unlocked. Some of this would be reduced if the police monitored but the don't. It would also be helpful if the State provided stickers for golf carts.

[joldnol]

It stinks that your tag was stolen. My wife and I will not use hers in the cart for that reason. We tend to live in a bubble here in TV and there are plenty of bad guys who would like nothing else than take from the "rich" villagers. Why doesn't the state come up with a sticker that can be applied to the window for golf carts? We are not the only golf cart community in Fla.

[Jima64]

I saw not long ago a commercial delivery truck with the handicap placard on the mirror in Palm Coast. Not ups or fedex but the other one in a creamy brown colored truck. A young man was driving it. Just remembered, Rapid Parcel was the company.

[Jima64]

Maybe its a person who is fed up with seeing non-handicapped persons driving with these placards-like the person I saw driving a bright yellow Ferrari-with handicap tags- or wives shopping with handicapped placards -even though they're not handicapped

How do you know they do not have a reason for needing this. My exboss had a respiratory problem and had one. Looked normal but couldn't walk long distances. Of vourse some abuse it but type of car or shopping mmmmmm.

[Sonny39]

Try this website ,,might work
Buy Handicap Decals - USA Traffic Signs (http://www.usa-traffic-signs.com/Decals_s/34.htm)

[bagboy]

To the original theft, I was taught that if it isn't "ours", it's "theirs" and you leave it alone. The person who took the handicap placard clearly has a character deficiency, and that can't be detected any more than a physical handicap can be with just one look.

[looneycat]

FL provides 2 placards. We keep one in our car (or my wife's purse if she is going out). The other is taped to the inside of our golf cart lower windshield for exactly the reason noted by the OP.

when I picked up mine they gave me 2 placards and the dmv agent said if one goes in the cart to tape it to the windshield as they get stolen.
I hope there is a special place in hell for these people that would steal a handicap placard.

[Polar Bear]

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.

You seem to have a negative view on lots of issue. Try smiling once in awhile.
On the nose.

[NYGUY]

FL provides 2 placards. We keep one in our car (or my wife's purse if she is going out). The other is taped to the inside of our golf cart lower windshield for exactly the reason noted by the OP.

The Florida Motor Vehicle website indicates a second placard is only issued for 2 purposes as follows:

An additional permit may be issued to a disabled person who qualifies as a frequent traveler or as a quadriplegic as follows:

A frequent traveler must indicate on the application form that they frequently travel by plane, train, bus or boat and need one permit to park their vehicle at the place of departure and another one to use at their destination.

[KeepingItReal]

While some conditions are more obvious than others we all know these permits are abused and used improperly just like any other benefit. What is really sad is when a person that really needs a spot cannot get one because they are all filled by people that could well do without them.

Law changes for disabled parking permit holders!

Effective July 1, 2012: Any person that loses or has their disabled parking permit stolen must provide form HSMV 83039, Application For Disabled Person Parking Permit, completed and signed by their certifying authority within the last 12 months. Once completed, take this form to the local county tax collector office or license plate agency for replacement.

Effective October 1, 2012: Any person renewing their disabled parking permit must have current certification. Before a disabled parking permit can be renewed, the permit-holder must provide form HSMV 83039, Application For Disabled Person Parking Permit, completed and signed by their certifying authority within the last 12 months. Once completed, take form to the local county tax collector office or tag agency for replacement.

[Floridagal]

I have a handicap license plate. I do not use a walker or wheelchair, but I have a problem walking and use a cane. But I agree with some of the posters that people are abusing the sticker. It only takes a few to make it bad for everyone else.

[looneycat]

The Florida Motor Vehicle website indicates a second placard is only issued for 2 purposes as follows:

An additional permit may be issued to a disabled person who qualifies as a frequent traveler or as a quadriplegic as follows:

A frequent traveler must indicate on the application form that they frequently travel by plane, train, bus or boat and need one permit to park their vehicle at the place of departure and another one to use at their destination.

however in the villages dmv you are issued 2 as your golf cart is used as a primary vehicle as well as your car. any question about that you can ask them directly as posting it here won't get you a qualified response.

[KeepingItReal]

I have a handicapped placard in my car for my 91 year old mother. Her placard is for her heart and her hips. She can't walk long distances without a walker and needs a motored cart in a store. I do not park in a handicapped spot unless she is with me.



Florida Statutes:

(4)(a) A vehicle that is transporting a person who has a disability and that has been granted a permit under s. 320.0848(1)(a) may be parked for a maximum of 30 minutes in any parking space reserved for persons who have disabilities.

[KeepingItReal]

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.





It all about honor....or the lack of same. You must have one of these conditions to qualify for a handicap parking permit. Many accidents are staged to file a lawsuit, no difference really.

Here is the law:

HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15

PHYSICIAN/CERTIFYING PRACTITIONER'S STATEMENT OF CERTIFICATION (See Warning Below)
TEMPORARY PERMIT: This is to certify that the applicant named above is a person with a temporary disability (six months or less) that limits or impairs his/her ability to
walk or is temporarily sight impaired. Due to the temporary specific disability(ties) checked below (2-8), the disabled person parking permit should be issued from
__________________________ (date) through ___________________________ (date).
PERMANENT PERMIT: This is to certify that the applicant named above is legally blind or is a disabled person with a permanent disability (ties) that limits or impairs
his/her ability to walk 200 feet without stopping to rest. Specify below (2-8) either legally blind or the specific disability (ties).
DISABILITY TYPE AS DISPLAYED IN FRVIS:

2. Inability to walk without the use of or assistance from a brace, cane, crutch, prosthetic device, or other assistive device, or without assistance of another person. If the
assistive device significantly restores the person's ability to walk to the extent that the person can walk without severe limitation, the person is not eligible for the
exemption parking permit.
3. The need to permanently use a wheelchair.

4. Restriction by lung disease to the extent that the person's forced (respiratory) expiratory volume for 1 second, when measured by spirometry, is less than one liter or
the person's arterial oxygen is less than 60 mm/hg on room air at rest.

5. Use of portable oxygen.

6. Restriction by cardiac condition to the extent that the person's functional limitations are classified in severity as Class III or Class IV according to standards set by the
American Heart Association.

7. Severe limitation in a person's ability to walk due to an arthritic, neurological, or orthopedic condition.

8. Legally Blind (This is the only disability an Optometrist can certify.)

WARNING: Any person who knowingly makes a false or misleading statement in an application or certification under section 320.0848, Florida Statutes, commits a
misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in section 775.082 or 775.083, F.S. The penalty is up to one year in jail or a fine of $1,000 or both.

[big guy]

Maybe its a person who is fed up with seeing non-handicapped persons driving with these placards-like the person I saw driving a bright yellow Ferrari-with handicap tags- or wives shopping with handicapped placards -even though they're not handicapped

A doctor has to do quite a bit of paper work to have a handicap placard issued for a patient. For a couple of reasons, I have trouble walking. SOmetimes I use a cane. I didn't have one last evening when we went to Beef O'Brady's so I lean on my wife. But it's a slippery slope when a total stranger makes a judgement of my, or anyones', degree of disability by what they see. I didn't ask to see ID but I'd be willing to bet my last dime that everyone in Beef O'Brady's was from The Villages last evening. Most were wearing golf shoes, all the same demographic.

[NYGUY]

however in the villages dmv you are issued 2 as your golf cart is used as a primary vehicle as well as your car. any question about that you can ask them directly as posting it here won't get you a qualified response.

Thanks, I didn't know each office could make changes.

[dbussone]

It all about honor....or the lack of same. You must have one of these conditions to qualify for a handicap parking permit. Many accidents are staged to file a lawsuit, no difference really.

Here is the law:

HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15

PHYSICIAN/CERTIFYING PRACTITIONER'S STATEMENT OF CERTIFICATION (See Warning Below)
TEMPORARY PERMIT: This is to certify that the applicant named above is a person with a temporary disability (six months or less) that limits or impairs his/her ability to
walk or is temporarily sight impaired. Due to the temporary specific disability(ties) checked below (2-8), the disabled person parking permit should be issued from
__________________________ (date) through ___________________________ (date).
PERMANENT PERMIT: This is to certify that the applicant named above is legally blind or is a disabled person with a permanent disability (ties) that limits or impairs
his/her ability to walk 200 feet without stopping to rest. Specify below (2-8) either legally blind or the specific disability (ties).
DISABILITY TYPE AS DISPLAYED IN FRVIS:

2. Inability to walk without the use of or assistance from a brace, cane, crutch, prosthetic device, or other assistive device, or without assistance of another person. If the
assistive device significantly restores the person's ability to walk to the extent that the person can walk without severe limitation, the person is not eligible for the
exemption parking permit.
3. The need to permanently use a wheelchair.

4. Restriction by lung disease to the extent that the person's forced (respiratory) expiratory volume for 1 second, when measured by spirometry, is less than one liter or
the person's arterial oxygen is less than 60 mm/hg on room air at rest.

5. Use of portable oxygen.

6. Restriction by cardiac condition to the extent that the person's functional limitations are classified in severity as Class III or Class IV according to standards set by the
American Heart Association.

7. Severe limitation in a person's ability to walk due to an arthritic, neurological, or orthopedic condition.

8. Legally Blind (This is the only disability an Optometrist can certify.)

WARNING: Any person who knowingly makes a false or misleading statement in an application or certification under section 320.0848, Florida Statutes, commits a
misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in section 775.082 or 775.083, F.S. The penalty is up to one year in jail or a fine of $1,000 or both.




I understand the law, and my RN wife qualifies under #7 above. She has been diagnosed with MS since 1978. So what is your point?

[dbussone]

The Florida Motor Vehicle website indicates a second placard is only issued for 2 purposes as follows:



An additional permit may be issued to a disabled person who qualifies as a frequent traveler or as a quadriplegic as follows:



A frequent traveler must indicate on the application form that they frequently travel by plane, train, bus or boat and need one permit to park their vehicle at the place of departure and another one to use at their destination.


I prefer not to suggest what you may be implying. If it is what I think I won't go further. And neither should you. I'll leave it at my wife qualifies and has for decades.

[dbussone]

when I picked up mine they gave me 2 placards and the dmv agent said if one goes in the cart to tape it to the windshield as they get stolen.

I hope there is a special place in hell for these people that would steal a handicap placard.


And for slugs who question the necessary, lawful, and appropriate use of placards.

[Bonny]

Maybe its a person who is fed up with seeing non-handicapped persons driving with these placards-like the person I saw driving a bright yellow Ferrari-with handicap tags- or wives shopping with handicapped placards -even though they're not handicapped
How do you know they aren't handicap ??

[Nucky]

What a shame about the theft of your placard. You have to have eyes in the back of your head now a days. I may be with you in that I notice things about handicapped parking spots that don't add up but to ever make a comment to the person is out of line. You never know what the real story is and truly it's not your business. Take the time & observational powers you have and use it for the force of good instead of evil. Give someone a helping hand or hold a door for someone or give somebody a kind word. I'm almost 60 and I was raised to respect everyone as if they were my Mom or Dad...best lesson I ever learned.

[golfing eagles]

I've signed hundreds if not more than a thousand of these in the last 30 years. You cannot tell what the driver's handicap is with a glance. Most are for respiratory or cardiac conditions that preclude the patient from walking 200 feet. Many are also temporary after surgery. Heck, I had emergency neurosurgery on my neck 5 days ago and qualify---I can even sign my own, but you wouldn't be able to tell from looking at me.
My best advice is to be happy YOU don't need one and not worry about what your neighbor's reason is, and let the very few number of scammers live with their own conscience.
As far as the thief goes, he/she should have a reserved spot at the furthest end of any parking lot from now on.

[outlaw]

Your concept of "handicapped" is somewhat archaic. My wife frequently uses a walker - she has MS. If she doesn't, she is capable of walking short distances. She can likely get from a handicapped space to a grocery basket, but not from a space out in the lower 40.

You seem to have a negative view on lots of issue. Try smiling once in awhile.

It's a rule of thumb. I hope you don't take advantage of it. It's for your wife, not you I assume. Sorry, but you may have to live with many people resenting your special accommodation because there are a lot of frauds that use these tags, and still more that lie to get on SS disability. So you can thank all the frauds out there.

[NYGUY]

I prefer not to suggest what you may be implying. If it is what I think I won't go further. And neither should you. I'll leave it at my wife qualifies and has for decades.

dbussone, I am so sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I was merely replying to someone else about obtaining 2 placards and was not referring to you or your wife in any way.

[dbussone]

dbussone, I am so sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I was merely replying to someone else about obtaining 2 placards and was not referring to you or your wife in any way.


Apology accepted. Please excuse me as well NYGUY.

[outlaw]

Florida Statutes:

(4)(a) A vehicle that is transporting a person who has a disability and that has been granted a permit under s. 320.0848(1)(a) may be parked for a maximum of 30 minutes in any parking space reserved for persons who have disabilities.



That one is NEVER enforced.

[outlaw]

Look, no one is denying a handicap person a little help regarding parking. I open doors for more old people, and women (heck, even men) than probably more than just about anyone. But it is out of control. When I was growing up, there were always available handicap spots anywhere you went. Now we have the first two rows in every parking lot at every business (a bit of exaggeration, maybe) full for most of the day. Honestly, I watch cars and carts circling Walmart and the town squares looking for an available handicap space. Are you telling me, all of a sudden, this country has a handicap epidemic? I could get a handicap placard just by telling my doctor my feet hurt when I walk. I know people who have done this. I'm sure many if not most do not abuse this system, but something has happened in this country over the last few decades to require the continuously growing handicap spaces at parking lots.

[golfing eagles]

Look, no one is denying a handicap person a little help regarding parking. I open doors for more old people, and women (heck, even men) than probably more than just about anyone. But it is out of control. When I was growing up, there were always available handicap spots anywhere you went. Now we have the first two rows in every parking lot at every business (a bit of exaggeration, maybe) full for most of the day. Honestly, I watch cars and carts circling Walmart and the town squares looking for an available handicap space. Are you telling me, all of a sudden, this country has a handicap epidemic? I could get a handicap placard just by telling my doctor my feet hurt when I walk. I know people who have done this. I'm sure many if not most do not abuse this system, but something has happened in this country over the last few decades to require the continuously growing handicap spaces at parking lots.

Well, I know your not my patient---good luck getting me to sign one for "my feet hurt". But yes, there is a mini-"epidemic" of handicapped---aging population, living longer, feeling well enough to get out more, etc. There is also a mini-"epidemic" of "me first" attitudes. I have often remarked , tongue in cheek, that eventually ALL parking spaces will be handicapped and only a few at the end of the lot for non-handicapped. Maybe I'll buy stock in fast signs.

[Bonny]

Look, no one is denying a handicap person a little help regarding parking. I open doors for more old people, and women (heck, even men) than probably more than just about anyone. But it is out of control. When I was growing up, there were always available handicap spots anywhere you went. Now we have the first two rows in every parking lot at every business (a bit of exaggeration, maybe) full for most of the day. Honestly, I watch cars and carts circling Walmart and the town squares looking for an available handicap space. Are you telling me, all of a sudden, this country has a handicap epidemic? I could get a handicap placard just by telling my doctor my feet hurt when I walk. I know people who have done this. I'm sure many if not most do not abuse this system, but something has happened in this country over the last few decades to require the continuously growing handicap spaces at parking lots.
Your living in Florida now surrounded by "many" older and or retired people that have developed medical issues.

[birdawg]

Theirs a guy with a little gray sports car that parks in the handicap spot at the sports pool and then goes in and play's volley ball for two hours, That takes balls.

[Callaway Guy]

Whoa! Karma can be a bi**h to the person whose Wheaties were pi**ed in and felt the need to diss people using H/C placards. God forbid that person ever need to use one.

We carry one in our car for my mother-in-law; when I'm driving, I'll let her and my wife out at the front door and drive to the "lower 40" to park. When my wife (with a new knee) drives her Mom somewhere, they will use the placard.

I'm usually pretty low-key about most things, but if I see a person parking in a H/C space with no license or placard, I'll call them out; that is one of my few pet peeves.

[KeepingItReal]

I understand the law, and my RN wife qualifies under #7 above. She has been diagnosed with MS since 1978. So what is your point?

This is the point:

If your wife is truly deserving then that is what these spaces are for and she deserves to park there.

HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15
7. Severe limitation in a person's ability to walk due to an arthritic, neurological, or orthopedic condition.

My father that has passed now was disabled with a stroke and we could never park close but had to drive up and let him get out in a wheelchair and then go park, often while he waited alone because lazy jerks that were perfectly able to walk had taken all the handicap spots already.

While some conditions are more obvious than others we all know these permits are abused and used improperly just like any other benefit like disability for example.

It is a pathetic shame that there is no enforcement on this problem just like many other problems where people cheat and are dishonest.

When people get out of a car and do a fifty yard dash to the store they darn well do not need a handicapped permit and it is clear to anyone that sees them. It is pretty much the same scenario out on the golf courses too with the handicap placards but I could care less about those that cheat out there.

A lot of people should read the last part of number 2 shown below.

HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15

2. Inability to walk without the use of or assistance from a brace, cane, crutch, prosthetic device, or other assistive device, or without assistance of another person.
If the assistive device significantly restores the person's ability to walk to the extent that the person can walk without severe limitation,
the person is not eligible for the exemption parking permit.

[KeepingItReal]

I've signed hundreds if not more than a thousand of these in the last 30 years. You cannot tell what the driver's handicap is with a glance. Most are for respiratory or cardiac conditions that preclude the patient from walking 200 feet. Many are also temporary after surgery. Heck, I had emergency neurosurgery on my neck 5 days ago and qualify---I can even sign my own, but you wouldn't be able to tell from looking at me.
My best advice is to be happy YOU don't need one and not worry about what your neighbor's reason is, and let the very few number of scammers live with their own conscience.
As far as the thief goes, he/she should have a reserved spot at the furthest end of any parking lot from now on.

So how does a neck surgery hinder anyone from walking and qualify them for a handicapped parking permit? Under what item on the HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15 Form would this fall?

[golfing eagles]

Theirs a guy with a little gray sports car that parks in the handicap spot at the sports pool and then goes in and play's volley ball for two hours, That takes balls.

No, just one. Generally about a foot across and white.

[golfing eagles]

So how does a neck surgery hinder anyone from walking and qualify them for a handicapped parking permit? Under what item on the HSMV 83039 - REV. 08/15 Form would this fall?




In the style of a current presidential candidate, I apologize that you did not understand me. If you must know, due to the nature and location of my surgery, the impact of each step is painful from my posterior cervical region down my left arm. NY criteria includes the inability to walk 200 feet without stopping FOR ANY REASON, I'm only up to 20-25 feet
Of course I have no intention of getting a handicapped placard, that was pure hyperbole. The point of my post was that no one, not even me, can tell if a person meets criteria form a distant glance, so why assume they are a fraud? I have found most requests for a handicapped parking permit are legitimate, and most that are not are just running it up the flagpole to see if I salute it. They don't get one anyway. Even though I tend to lean conservative, I would rather waste a few dollars on the food stamp frauds than have a child go hungry, just as I would rather someone scam a handicapped permit than have some 90 year old break a hip walking too far.
The alternative to the current system is to take the permission out of the hands of the patient's personal physician and give it to some government bureaucrat with 40,000 pages of regulation to follow. This would cost billions, delay the process by months, and probably be associated with a measurable body count. No thank you.
Now here's a food for thought question: If you have an identical house to your neighbor and he is paying less property tax than you, do you go to the assessor's office and argue why your tax should be less based on the value of YOUR property, or do you complain that your neighbor is paying less than you? No criticism or offense intended, but it does go to the point of worrying about what the other guy is getting.

[outlaw]

No, just one. Generally about a foot across and white.

You haven't seen TV water volleyball at Savannah! They use about 20 balls. There is NO time wasted chasing balls.

[Villager Joyce]

You are an idiot, plain and simple. Enough said. When you get an MD and can understand the intricacies of disease you can then earn the right to judge. Until then you should stick to whatever area of expertise you might have. I pray you never need any assistance to live your life.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[outlaw]

Whoa! Karma can be a bi**h to the person whose Wheaties were pi**ed in and felt the need to diss people using H/C placards. God forbid that person ever need to use one.

We carry one in our car for my mother-in-law; when I'm driving, I'll let her and my wife out at the front door and drive to the "lower 40" to park. When my wife (with a new knee) drives her Mom somewhere, they will use the placard.

I'm usually pretty low-key about most things, but if I see a person parking in a H/C space with no license or placard, I'll call them out; that is one of my few pet peeves.

Good for you. That's the way it should be used. I have witnessed very young people with their much older, probably grandmother, pull granny's car into a handicap spot. jump out and run into the store to get something to drink, and come out and drive off. Grandma never got out of the car. Total abuse; and grandma allowed it.

[outlaw]

You are an idiot, plain and simple. Enough said. When you get an MD and can understand the intricacies of disease you can then earn the right to judge. Until then you should stick to whatever area of expertise you might have. I pray you never need any assistance to live your life.

The poster doesn't begrudge you anything. If you are legitimately using a HC placard, good for you. He was referring to the frauds, and there are many. Your last sentence reeks of insincerity.

[Gerald]

My wife and I went to Beef O'Bradys at Colony Plaza for dinner tonight. We went in the golf cart and parked in a handicapped spot. I have a handicap placard and it was clipped to the steering wheel. The placard was there when we went into Beef's but it was gone when we returned. At that time, I would say that it was all Villagers coming from the golf courses who were dining there. What kind of low life steals a handicap placard?!

First of all anyone can use the colony plaza to shop or go to eat. To say it was a villager is totally prejudice. Second the handicap cards can easily be replaced at the place where you get it. The motor V. tells you that you need to place the card so it is hard to steal. Which means in a cart you need to tape it to the windshield. Mine was stollen from the same shopping center because I hung it from the mirror, so has many others. I just went over to the motor V and got another from the outside window. Took five minutes. Then taped it to the windshield.
Lowlife steals placard sure they do. Happens in every place, in and out of the villages. Not saying it is ok to steal. Just saying you and I and many others made it very easy.

[dbussone]

The poster doesn't begrudge you anything. If you are legitimately using a HC placard, good for you. He was referring to the frauds, and there are many. Your last sentence reeks of insincerity.


I was absolutely sincere. I wouldn't wish a life of difficulty on anyone. I don't use a placard. It is my wife's Judge not lest ye be judged.

[outlaw]

First of all anyone can use the colony plaza to shop or go to eat. To say it was a villager is totally prejudice. Second the handicap cards can easily be replaced at the place where you get it. The motor V. tells you that you need to place the card so it is hard to steal. Which means in a cart you need to tape it to the windshield. Mine was stollen from the same shopping center because I hung it from the mirror, so has many others. I just went over to the motor V and got another from the outside window. Took five minutes. Then taped it to the windshield.
Lowlife steals placard sure they do. Happens in every place, in and out of the villages. Not saying it is ok to steal. Just saying you and I and many others made it very easy.

Or it could have been someone that saw big guy drive up, get out, and walk in without the slightest indication of a serious infirmity. Before anyone demands my hanging in the town square, I am not saying big guy isn't legitimately HC. But, whether you want to believe it or not, there is a ton of fraud going on with HC placards just as in SS disability claims, and people are getting ****ed that they have to park out in the north 40 while watching the ever shrinking open spaces being converted to the ever increasing HC spaces.

[outlaw]

I was absolutely sincere. I wouldn't wish a life of difficulty on anyone. I don't use a placard. It is my wife's Judge not lest ye be judged.

If you were absolutely sincere, then I will accept that. But you are misreading these comments and getting all upset for the wrong reasons. They are NOT directed at legitimate users. Have you never gone to Walmart during holiday shopping season, and could not find a HC spot, only to see some guy come out looking perfectly healthy, load up his truck with merchandise and hop into his truck, all done with the agility of a perfectly healthy appearing man? I guess there could be some hidden, legitimate reason why he has that placard. But I doubt it.

[golfing eagles]

The poster doesn't begrudge you anything. If you are legitimately using a HC placard, good for you. He was referring to the frauds, and there are many. Your last sentence reeks of insincerity.

Is there SOME fraud---of course. Could it be worse in Florida, possibly.
But how many handicapped permit applications have you personally evaluated and signed? I'll bet zero, whereas I've done many hundreds. Just my personal experience, but the overwhelming majority of requests are legitimate. Certainly the person who appears to walk or load a vehicle without difficulty raises the suspicion level, but consider if they would perform that well after walking 200+ feet instead of 20. Do they have COPD with an FEV1 of 600 cc?--they certainly would look A LOT different at 200 feet than 20. Are they on medical treatment for a subcritical LAD stenosis of 72% with stable angina pectoris at 100 feet of level walking? An observer really is not in a position to judge the validity of the person's disability, that EXACTLY why a physician must sign the form. And the suggestion that it would be OK to steal a placard because THE THIEF decides it is fraudulent is beyond belief. Why not just shoot someone because the gun owner decides he is a terrorist?

[Bonny]

I'm one of those people that I always get the look when I park in handicap. Maybe going in I look all healthy. I walk into the store get a couple of things then it might take everything I have to get back to my car and I am struggling.
But even then, you may or may not know it.
People have no idea what is going on with anyone by looking at them.
Everyone is so quick to judge people on looks. You don't always have a clue !!!
Some people are better off worrying about themselves instead of worrying about others. Just sayin' !!

[justjim]

I've read this Thread with somewhat disbelief and wonderment. The "anger" we seem to have in a possible "illegal HP" using a handicap placard is beyond my comprehension. Don't we have other more serious concerns? Just a random thought.........

[CFrance]

I'm one of those people that I always get the look when I park in handicap. Maybe going in I look all healthy. I walk into the store get a couple of things then it might take everything I have to get back to my car and I am struggling.
But even then, you may or may not know it.
People have no idea what is going on with anyone by looking at them.
Everyone is so quick to judge people on looks. You don't always have a clue !!!
Some people are better off worrying about themselves instead of worrying about others. Just sayin' !!

I've read this Thread with somewhat disbelief and wonderment. The "anger" we seem to have in a possible "illegal HP" using a handicap placard is beyond my comprehension. Don't we have other more serious concerns? Just a random thought.........
Really! I feel sorry for the people with legit but not obvious handicaps, having to feign a limp so they don't get daggers stared through them.:ohdear:

[golfing eagles]

Really! I feel sorry for the people with legit but not obvious handicaps, having to feign a limp so they don't get daggers stared through them.:ohdear:

The point is THEY DON'T HAVE TO, they have a legitimate placard. Personally, I would go right up to the dagger thrower and offer to trade them the placard for the disability, see how many takers there are then. What's the old proverb?--"try walking in my shoes"

[CFrance]

The point is THEY DON'T HAVE TO, they have a legitimate placard. Personally, I would go right up to the dagger thrower and offer to trade them the placard for the disability, see how many takers there are then. What's the old proverb?--"try walking in my shoes"
I was being sarcastic. Can you actually imagine someone "calling" you on parking in a handicap spot if you have a proper sticker but not an obvious disability? I would respond the same way you would.

[NotGolfer]

Stealing the placard was a horrible thing to do. As for people judging whether anyone truly is "handicapped" or not needs to think again. I have one and have it because I have a 'invisible' disease. To look at me, I look fine BUT I have issues with walking due to rheumatoid arthritis and a bad back. The RA has affected my feet/ankles and hips. Walk in the shoes of someone first, then judge. I don't think doctors will sign the sheet needed unless they too think it's needed.

[golfing eagles]

Stealing the placard was a horrible thing to do. As for people judging whether anyone truly is "handicapped" or not needs to think again. I have one and have it because I have a 'invisible' disease. To look at me, I look fine BUT I have issues with walking due to rheumatoid arthritis and a bad back. The RA has affected my feet/ankles and hips. Walk in the shoes of someone first, then judge. I don't think doctors will sign the sheet needed unless they too think it's needed.

:mademyday:

Thank you, my point from the beginning

[red tail]

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

[golfing eagles]

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Which is why a casual observer should not hold themselves out as having the expertise to make clinical judgments. Then someone wants to steal it, acting as judge, jury and executioner----INSANE. Maybe they learned how to spot a disability "on the internet" , like so many think they can.

[Average Guy]

I think that part of the skepticism that people have over the use of handicap parking is not the concern that some physician has inappropriately diagnosed a patient, but rather that the handicap parking is being used by someone other than the handicapped individual.

For instance, a car with a handicap license plate is driven to a parking lot by the spouse/child/friend of the handicapped person and is parked in a handicap parking space. The actual handicapped person is not even in the car, or remains in the car while an able-bodied person goes to shop. This abuse of the system is hard to police.

[CFrance]

I think that part of the skepticism that people have over the use of handicap parking is not the concern that some physician has inappropriately diagnosed a patient, but rather that the handicap parking is being used by someone other than the handicapped individual.

For instance, a car with a handicap license plate is driven to a parking lot by the spouse/child/friend of the handicapped person and is parked in a handicap parking space. The actual handicapped person is not even in the car, or remains in the car while an able-bodied person goes to shop. This abuse of the system is hard to police.
But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

[Average Guy]

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

I am sorry if my post irritated you. That was certainly not my intent. I never stated that I was irritated or felt cheated. I did state that I felt that was why some people felt skeptical. I am no position to know who is or is not handicapped.

Years ago, I was on a business trip and a group went out to dinner. One of the people had driven there, so she drove us to the restaurant. When we got to the restaurant she pulled into a handicap parking space. Her car had a handicap license plate because her husband, who was not in the vehicle at the time, was confined to a wheelchair. When this happened, it did not make me feel cheated, it made me upset that someone who was handicapped may have not been able to park in a handicap space because of her action.

Again, my apologies for upsetting you or anyone else who read my previous post.

[CFrance]

I am sorry if my post irritated you. That was certainly not my intent. I never stated that I was irritated or felt cheated. I did state that I felt that was why some people felt skeptical. I am no position to know who is or is not handicapped.

Years ago, I was on a business trip and a group went out to dinner. One of the people had driven there, so she drove us to the restaurant. When we got to the restaurant she pulled into a handicap parking space. Her car had a handicap license plate because her husband, who was not in the vehicle at the time, was confined to a wheelchair. When this happened, it did not make me feel cheated, it made me upset that someone who was handicapped may have not been able to park in a handicap space because of her action.

Again, my apologies for upsetting you or anyone else who read my previous post.

You didn't upset me. I meant people in general, not you necessarily. Your personal experience gives you a reason to be upset. I'm sure there are people who take advantage, but who is to know which ones they are. That was the point I was trying to make.

I have an acquaintance who I swear looks for all life's injustices to be irritated about. I just want to tell her to try to ignore as much as she can.

[KeepingItReal]

......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Which is why a casual observer should not hold themselves out as having the expertise to make clinical judgments. Then someone wants to steal it, acting as judge, jury and executioner----INSANE. Maybe they learned how to spot a disability "on the internet" , like so many think they can.

Not impressed with how many have been signed by anyone, it doesn't mean a thing. All those thousands and thousand of fraudulent prescriptions that have been and continue to be written for addictive pain drugs were signed by someone too. I can go to my doctor tomorrow and have a handicapped placard by the end of the day if I wanted. People do know how to spot a fraud and there are plenty to spot whether it be a disability fraud, food stamp fraud, accident victim fraud, slip and fall fraud, a fraudulent doctor, welfare fraud, tax fraud, or a handicap fraud.

If you're not a fraud then you are entitled to a handicapped placard and there is absolutely nothing to worry or be upset about.

[outlaw]

:mademyday:

Thank you, my point from the beginning

I think my point was made. Earlier you said you would not give me a HC placard because my feet hurt when I walk. Now someone says they're feet hurt when they walk, and you imply you would have given them a placard. I have some arthritis in my back. Sometimes it hurts when I walk, or play golf. Do you think I could get a placard?

[outlaw]

in the words of my favorite pres candidate....this thread is 'stupid'......no physician is going to sign a handicap app unless its is necessary or warranted....so these folks so worried should probably worry about the dog poop and coyotes.

Riiight. And no physician is going to defraud medicare, or perform unnecessary surgeries, or sexually assault a patient....

[Bonny]

I think this thread is taking a big turn for the worse !! :popcorn:

[golfing eagles]

I think my point was made. Earlier you said you would not give me a HC placard because my feet hurt when I walk. Now someone says they're feet hurt when they walk, and you imply you would have given them a placard. I have some arthritis in my back. Sometimes it hurts when I walk, or play golf. Do you think I could get a placard?

Maybe I was confusing. I've never signed one for "my feet hurt" in the usual sense such as "I've been on my feet all day or I stand on a hard floor". Patients who have undergone surgery, have severe chronic arthritic conditions, or have significant peripheral polyneuropathy are a different case
The NY standard remains "the inability to walk 200 feet without stopping" Usually the underlying condition gives a good indication as to whether the patient qualifies. (When diagnosed by a professional, not a casual observer with "life experience"). Sorry, I must have climbed back on "my pedestal" there--- I forgot that 35 years of education, training, experience, board certification, and qualification as an expert witness by the court in every disability proceeding that I have ever testified at "means nothing", and the casual observer is every bit equally qualified to make these clinical determinations as I am (sorry, couldn't resist, still a little perturbed by last night's post)

[outlaw]

But since it's pretty much agreed that you can't tell a handicap just by looking, you have no way of knowing if that's even happening. And how would you even know that a person in the car is holding the spot for a non handicapped person to go shopping?

Do some people look for ways to get irritated or feel cheated?

Technically, I guess one cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman until a medical exam. And one cannot tell if a person is fat by just looking at them. They could just be big boned.
Today, I watched a guy with full mobility, not shuffling, not old, walk spiritedly to his HC placarded car, hop in with no sign of pain or slowness, and back out turning his head fully as he backed up, then drive off. At the same place, I also watched a very old lady get out of her HC placarded car veeerrry slowly, drop her cane, while grasping the seat with one hand sloooowly bent over and picked up her cane, then finally steadied herself to close her car door, and proceeded slowly to the store. Now how many other people like that old lady had to park another 50 or 100 feet away because of that guy, who clearly did not need to park where he parked, took up that space?

[Bonny]

I am amazed at how many on this thread remark about all of these people they see in the handicap spots. Do people stand or sit there and watch these people park, get out of their car and walk all the way in the store or where ever ?
I can't remember if I ever saw someone parking in the handicap spot, let alone watch them get out of their car and monitor the way they walk in a store. :confused:

[golfing eagles]

Technically, I guess one cannot tell the difference between a man and a woman until a medical exam. And one cannot tell if a person is fat by just looking at them. They could just be big boned.
Today, I watched a guy with full mobility, not shuffling, not old, walk spiritedly to his HC placarded car, hop in with no sign of pain or slowness, and back out turning his head fully as he backed up, then drive off. At the same place, I also watched a very old lady get out of her HC placarded car veeerrry slowly, drop her cane, while grasping the seat with one hand sloooowly bent over and picked up her cane, then finally steadied herself to close her car door, and proceeded slowly to the store. Now how many other people like that old lady had to park another 50 or 100 feet away because of that guy, who clearly did not need to park where he parked, took up that space?

:agree:
No question that this does happen, my 90 year old mother would drop her cane just about every time she got out of the car in a regular parking spot while the handicapped placard sat in the glove compartment. I've seen 20 year olds park in designated spots and jog into the store. And yes, even in deference to my new friend from last night, some are so obvious that no special training is needed to spot them. These rarely are the drivers that obtained the permit, it is usually someone else using the vehicle. Their behavior is totally inconsiderate of others and reflects the "me first" attitude I've alluded to.
Maybe I still have left over anesthesia in my system, but it appears I failed to effectively communicate my position yesterday, at least to one other TOTV poster.
So, if when at first you don't succeed.....
The parking criteria, in NY, are such that there will be patients that clearly qualify whom may not be the least bit evident to a casual observer. They may not be evident to a medical professional who watches from a distance, and therefore may not be evident to someone with extensive "life experience". They may have a pulmonary, respiratory or neurologic condition that only manifests itself after 100-200 feet of sustained effort, and thus be completely invisible when walking short distances. In many cases, you just can't tell. I tried to explain, in my HUMBLE experience, that the frauds who directly seek such a permit from their doctors are quite few and far between.
I'm sure there are providers who just willy-nilly sign a handicap permit, just as they indiscriminately hand out narcotic prescriptions. They are also, in my HUMBLE experience, few and far between.
My intention was to point out, in essence, that you can't judge a handicap book by its cover, but I may have gone overboard in my zeal, or frustration in responding to a particular poster. For this I apologize to him and everyone who may have read the whole thread. I have often posted on the dangers of sitting anonymously behind a keyboard and not counting to ten before responding. I feel I contributed to the deterioration of an important discussion on a subject that helps the weaker among us get out and about. I'm even OK with the personal attack launched back at me, but I do take exception to the attack on my profession as a whole, but I leave that to the conscience of he who shall not be named

[outlaw]

:agree:
No question that this does happen, my 90 year old mother would drop her cane just about every time she got out of the car in a regular parking spot while the handicapped placard sat in the glove compartment. I've seen 20 year olds park in designated spots and jog into the store. And yes, even in deference to my new friend from last night, some are so obvious that no special training is needed to spot them. These rarely are the drivers that obtained the permit, it is usually someone else using the vehicle. Their behavior is totally inconsiderate of others and reflects the "me first" attitude I've alluded to.
Maybe I still have left over anesthesia in my system, but it appears I failed to effectively communicate my position yesterday, at least to one other TOTV poster.
So, if when at first you don't succeed.....
The parking criteria, in NY, are such that there will be patients that clearly qualify whom may not be the least bit evident to a casual observer. They may not be evident to a medical professional who watches from a distance, and therefore may not be evident to someone with extensive "life experience". They may have a pulmonary, respiratory or neurologic condition that only manifests itself after 100-200 feet of sustained effort, and thus be completely invisible when walking short distances. In many cases, you just can't tell. I tried to explain, in my HUMBLE experience, that the frauds who directly seek such a permit from their doctors are quite few and far between.
I'm sure there are providers who just willy-nilly sign a handicap permit, just as they indiscriminately hand out narcotic prescriptions. They are also, in my HUMBLE experience, few and far between.
My intention was to point out, in essence, that you can't judge a handicap book by its cover, but I may have gone overboard in my zeal, or frustration in responding to a particular poster. For this I apologize to him and everyone who may have read the whole thread. I have often posted on the dangers of sitting anonymously behind a keyboard and not counting to ten before responding. I feel I contributed to the deterioration of an important discussion on a subject that helps the weaker among us get out and about. I'm even OK with the personal attack launched back at me, but I do take exception to the attack on my profession as a whole, but I leave that to the conscience of he who shall not be named

How do you know if someone is a 20 year old just by casually looking at them? Rhetorical, but I couldn't resist.

[golfing eagles]

How do you know if someone is a 20 year old just by casually looking at them? Rhetorical, but I couldn't resist.

No problem, that was fair game. :1rotfl:

But you would be surprised at how good one can get at guessing ages if you see enough people and are looking at their record

[CFrance]

I am amazed at how many on this thread remark about all of these people they see in the handicap spots. Do people stand or sit there and watch these people park, get out of their car and walk all the way in the store or where ever ?
I can't remember if I ever saw someone parking in the handicap spot, let alone watch them get out of their car and monitor the way they walk in a store. :confused:
Like I said before (and I am not speaking to anyone personally), some people look for injustices to get irritated about in their lives. Its part of their nature, I think.