Question - Evolution of The Villages Plan

[villages07]

I have been here about 2 years. Like others, sometimes I am guilty of thinking TV history started when I got here. So, a question for those of you who have lived here for at least say 7 years.....

When did you move here? At the time you bought into TV (presuming it was 2001 or earlier) what was your impression of the overall plan for TV in terms of size and geography?

I ask this because I've heard a couple of comments lately. One, someone said back in 2002-2004 when a lot of building was happening on the Marion County side, the expectation was that the Villages would continue to buildout north but (and this is rumor not necessarily fact) the Developer was not getting the necessary cooperation from Marion County and decided to build South into Sumter instead.

The second comment was ... once buildout of the currently advertised boundaries (to Brownwood) is done...what would stop the Developer from acquiring additional contiguous land and making TV even bigger?

So, for those who have been here for awhile...have you seen changes in the overall master plan over time and how was it announced to you?

[villager99]

when i put down my deposit in november of 1998.
the outline of the developers future plans included 2 town squares in sumter county but details were extremely vague. i think my first cdd class displayed a map that included an unnamed brownwood square.
there was a period (early 2000's) when lawsuits halted building in sumter county . that period saw expansion into marion county but tri-county community was already the term used when i selected my home back in 98.
ground had just been broken for the wellness center and there was talk of the dreamed for t village hospital. when i bought my villa.
freedom point wasn't mentioned but there was talk that the homewood assisted living facility would someday expand.

[JohnN]

I've wondered a bit about TV becoming bigger after the build-out of the Brownwood area.

I'd think if the builder has a market , they'll build, it's a business after all and if the demand is there, businesses will follow.

Then I thought, well, what if they do? I don't see it negatively afffecting anything as more infrastructure will be made. Demographics and market demand will level the population off in time.

[Russ_Boston]

I think another question is "why hasn't another developer, or even the same one, followed the lead and build a TV clone?".

There are hundreds of thousands of acres in Central FLA that are currently in use as citrus farms. The decline of this industry in FLA has been well documented. There are many 'retirement' developments started but none on the scale of TV (that I could find anyway). I would say that in terms of apples-to-apples home prices in TV command about 30% more than the average FLA development due to demand. Seems like an opportunity exists for a second TV in my opinion.

[tankdvr1950]

while not necessarily on point with the title of the thread....when the wife and i were there for our first lifestyle visit in February...our sales rep mentioned that there was a "plan in place" for a 3rd square, somewhere in TV

is anyone aware of such a plan and if so, where is it to be located.

[jadebox]

There are copy cats but TV was born in 1972. I doubt there is anyone who would build multi rec centers, golf courses, swimming pools etc and hope they would come. Starting with one or two of each and building as people move in is the way they would need to go. It would take years and years and years to get a Villages clone. I am sure Arlington Ridge and Solvita are wannabees.

[JohnN]

tankdvr1950
The TV sales reps have a map, and there's an online one here somewhere, for the third square called Brownwood. It's at the far south end of Buena Vista where it intersects Highway 44. If you do a TOTV search on "Brownwood" I think someone may have posted an online map, I can't recall, but there's been discussion on it.

[Cassie325]

I think another question is "why hasn't another developer, or even the same one, followed the lead and build a TV clone?".

There are hundreds of thousands of acres in Central FLA that are currently in use as citrus farms. The decline of this industry in FLA has been well documented. There are many 'retirement' developments started but none on the scale of TV (that I could find anyway). I would say that in terms of apples-to-apples home prices in TV command about 30% more than the average FLA development due to demand. Seems like an opportunity exists for a second TV in my opinion.


I actually heard that the developers here owned one very similar out in Texas...but I am sure just a rumor.....

[NJblue]

I'm with JohnN on this. I think it would be good if the developer had plans to continue to build out TV - as long as it was at a reasonable pace. The reason for my thoughts is that as long as they have an incentive to keep everything nice as a sales tool for additional sales, we will all benefit from a beautiful place to live with all the amenities.

[Skip]

I've been here quite a while and keep up with this stuff. Marion County was not friendly to the developer and they stopped expanding in that direction. TRUE. (Couldn't even agree on the naming of the streets.)

The problems with titles and deeds happened in Lake County between Chula Lista Ave. and 27/441 where Village La Reynalda is now. It stood undeveloped for quite some time.

Brownwood Honey House was Gary Morse's name for his roadside vegetable stand back home in Central Lake, Michigan. Gary's mother taught him the value of direct mail marketing. The exact location of this 3rd town square has been moved a few times. It was first called Lake Deaton Square. It is now proposed to be close to Wildwood west of Buena Vista. (Perhaps so Wildwood would annex it.) The marketing of such additional commercial parcels will be very challenging indeed.

Long before Harold Schwartz thought of developing Orange Blossom Gardens (The Villages first name), people like Ben Schleifer and Del Webb had built planned retirement communities (1950-60s) out west and in Florida. (Sun City is perhaps the best known.) Go visit Sun City Center and Top of the World! It's more like Schwartz got the idea from Webb, rather than Webb or Pringle copying Schwartz's idea for the Villages. It's the vast amount of recreation (that we pay for) that is so unique to this huge venture.

You have to remember that Harold didn't start off with "The Big Idea". He wanted cheap living and free golf. That's all. It just grew and grew and grew. Part of the success is having a finger in every piece of the pie: banking, mortgages, closing, re-sales, furniture, cable TV, TV station, radio station, newspaper, internet service, golf courses, golf carts, landscape maintenance, shopping, storage facilities, garbage collection, restaurants, night club, church, deed restrictions, even government! All directed by the developer.

What is different about this developer is that he puts in all the recreation and golf courses FIRST, and then builds houses around it. Most other retirement communities in Florida and elsewhere tell prospective buyers "We have the plans and the permits to start building a nice recreation center and pool for you when 80% of the houses are sold.". Next thing you know, the developer sells the remaining un-built lots to other developers and skips town without keeping his promise.

Sure, the Morse family could continue to expand The Villages further. "Buildout" seems to be a changing number (and date) over the years. Just depends on how greedy/interested the grandchildren are and what they want to do with their lives.

Yes, Mark Morse bought a lot of land in Texas, but he has been quoted as saying "We have no intentions of leaving here and that was hunting land I bought."

Hope this helps. Time will tell.

Skip

[TomW]

When we were down on our lifestyle tour, we were told that the developer owns land all the way out to I-75 for possible future expansion. Economically there would be no reason to stop expanding as long as there was a market and services could be maintained. Maybe we will need golf carts that can make it all the way to the coast one day. 8)

[villages07]

Thanks Skip...great post. Spot on.

[Cassie325]

When we were down on our lifestyle tour, we were told that the developer owns land all the way out to I-75 for possible future expansion. Economically there would be no reason to stop expanding as long as there was a market and services could be maintained. Maybe we will need golf carts that can make it all the way to the coast one day. 8)



yes perhaps we could have one home at the north end and one home at the coast....a vacation home...which you can get to by golf cart!!! LOVE IT

[Skip]

When we were down on our lifestyle tour, we were told that the developer owns land all the way out to I-75 for possible future expansion.

Not "all the way out to", but yes, he acquired some land in Long Hammock adjacent to I-75 & CR 466 where he proposed a new interchange which would be an easy drive to The Villages (without having to go through Wildwood). That seems to have been scrubbed since the DOT said they have little money to ADD exits, especially to this area. His plan was to develop the interchange with motels, restaurants and gas stations (and maybe a Sales Dept. DVD Stand!). A similar deal was proposed for the Turnpike too, near CR 468. FDOT probably said the same thing: "How long can you wait?".

So don't hold your breath on these projects. I'm sure the option to acquire the land has passed and the idea of a "Villages Exit" is now history.

Skip

[chuckinca]

Skip:

There is an older housing development on the NW side of the Hwy 42/441 intersection called Orange Blossom Hills.

Do you know of a relationship of this place to TV, since TV was originally called Orange Blossom Gardens?

[drdodge]

The developer does not own any more large tracts of land that would become a part of the villages. He owns a few scattered acres spread out going toward I 75 on 466 but not enough to have a large sub division. The villages covers 25 square miles. It takes a large tract of land to create adevelopment like the villages and make a profit. Most of the land now is quite expensive now compared what it was when they started the villages some 15 years ago. It took a few years to put that large parcel of land together, buying through straws and finally getting it all to one owner. It probaly could not be done today in this area. Once people figure out what you are doing they start to hold out for a lot more money. The cost becomes prohibative to do this nad still sell to the everyday person. Houses would not be affordable to most people

[Skip]

Official name of the new town square will be Brownwood Paddock Square located between CR 44 and CR 44A west of Buena Vista Blvd. Just west of that will be Antrim Dells. More commercial space for rent and presumably named after Antrim Dells Golf Course near Central Lake, MI. (see above).

Skip

[graciegirl]

while not necessarily on point with the title of the thread....when the wife and i were there for our first lifestyle visit in February...our sales rep mentioned that there was a "plan in place" for a 3rd square, somewhere in TV

is anyone aware of such a plan and if so, where is it to be located.


The third square is Brownwood, Southwest of what is currently being built and south of 466A.

[graciegirl]

I actually heard that the developers here owned one very similar out in Texas...but I am sure just a rumor.....


That is incorrect.

[graciegirl]

Skip:

There is an older housing development on the NW side of the Hwy 42/441 intersection called Orange Blossom Hills.

Do you know of a relationship of this place to TV, since TV was originally called Orange Blossom Gardens?


Unless I am completely wrong, are you talking about the area where the Orange Blossom Pool is? Then that is the "prehistoric part" of The Villages.

[chuckinca]

Unless I am completely wrong, are you talking about the area where the Orange Blossom Pool is? Then that is the "prehistoric part" of The Villages.



99.9% wrong.

The subdivision I am questioning isn't in TV, it is on the Northwest side of the 42/441 intersection (upper left to those who don't use cardinal directions) about three miles North (towards Belleview) of 441 Wal-Mart.

For a long time the area East (across the Hwy from Spanish Springs)of 441 was called The Villages. Then TV expanded to the Spanish Springs side of 441 and and East side became the Historic Villages and the West side was called The New Area of the Villages.

Now with the expansion South of 466 the area East of 441 is called The Historic Villages, the area North of 466 and West of 441 is The New Area North, and the area South of 466 is called the New Area South. There isn't a Prehistoric area - as that title has a demeaning connotation that is inappropriate to the beautiful area on the East side.

[Peachie]

I'm curious, which does the developer normally build out first, the town center or the home sites?

[Skip]

I'm curious, which does the developer normally build out first, the town center or the home sites?


Recreation first, then sells it to the CDD. The town center and home sites are built simultaneously to some extent.

Orange Blossom Hills - There's no relation to Orange Blossom Gardens that I know of. :dontknow:

Skip

[Peachie]

Thanks, Skip! I hope they start soon, I'd like to see how the newest center will look. ???