Not Really a Mea Culpa

[Muncle]

This is neither an attempt at an excuse nor even an explanation for any comments I�ve made recently or at any other time on this forum. Possibly, probably likely, I�ve come to close to personal comments on occasion, and for that I do apologize. But for the essence of the comments, I do not apologize.

There are two trigger issues that do indeed tick me off. The first of these is the seemingly visceral hatred of the �Developer� expressed by so many in this forum and the attitude a.) that he�s out to shaft the residents, b.) that residents should be consulted, possibly with veto power, on any actions, c.) that he has not provided some phantom service or facility that the sales people supposedly promised, and d.) that somehow he is responsible for any and every adverse action rightfully within the purview of one of the counties or a business owner. I cannot in honesty attribute all these feelings to ignorance and must ascribe much of them to sheer jealousy of the success and wealth of the Morse family.

The second trigger issue, while involving politics, is more a common courtesy matter. Why is it that seemingly normal people feel it perfectly okay to use any and all pejoratives about anyone in the present administration or their families yet scream bloody murder if anyone dares to logically question the qualifications of any of their favorites? And of course, a big lie told often enough may have a patina of truth, but it�s still a lie. For the most part, I ignore these weak jibes, accepting them as possibly the only retort available to the otherwise feebleminded. I certainly don�t begrudge legitimate political debate. Certainly there is room for discussion regarding differences on issues like the war, energy, taxes, health care, ad infinitum without spewing hate and disdain. I know this is not a big deal to most, but it tends to :edit: me off and I find it impossible to show anything more than complete disdain for those take part in this practice.

Generally I try to ignore threads that are empty of content and do not respond at all to certain posters. Whether the subject be pure politics, the POA, disappearing buffalo, or interlopers using our precious cart paths, I know that attempting to discuss a line of reasoning with some folks would be like teaching a pig to sing. I try to just grind my teeth and read on. Sometimes I fail. Sorry about that.

[JohnN]

Muncle,
very well said

folks talk about courtesy on golf cart paths (or lack thereof),
I'd think the same applies to the developer, politics, and just life in general

I don't think TV would be the success it is if the developer had planned so many wicked things to scam the folks. It's a business, and customers won't always agree, but it's not with the intent to make their life miserable.

on politics, there is too much campaigning (non-stop) and special interest groups, and not enough legislation in America's overall best interests. Our government is ineffective and needs a total makeover. That's neither Democrat nor GOP. I'm to the point of prayer and luck for our country as the best hope.

[Floridagal]

I personally think most people are jealous of the Developer. When they bought here they knew what was going on. I always say "if your not happy here then move and don't b----h.
No one forced you to come here."

[samhass]

Right on, Muncle! :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[ladykathleen]

To whoever said we all knew what "we were getting into"

I wonder if this also holds true for our previous national elections

Read how residents of Florida are trying to succeed in having a voice as other states have had for years.


Proposed Revisions to SECTION 190.048, F. S.
To Strengthen Disclosure Rules
For the Sale of Real Estate in
Community Development Districts (CDDs)

The current disclosure language given to buyers at the time of home purchase in a CDD is in Section 190.048 Florida Statutes. The section is inadequate and should be revised. Revisions should apply to any sale of a CDD property by a developer or its agents. There are several issues that need to be part of a comprehensive Disclosure Reform bill as follows:

1. Timing of Disclosure - The currently-required Disclosure is often given to potential buyers too late in the buyer's decision-making process, or often delayed until the time of closing, or afterwards. The Disclosure should be given to a prospective purchaser: (a) no less than ten (10) business days prior to closing; or, (b) at an earlier date when the buyer first exhibits serious interest in a property; and, (c) updated at least three (3) business days prior to closing.

2. Receipt for Disclosure - Buyers often complain that the currently-required Disclosure was never given or was delivered after closing. A developer or its agents should be required to obtain a signed and dated receipt from a potential buyer indicating when the Disclosure was delivered.

3. Separate Sheet of Paper - The currently-required Disclosure is often buried in other lengthy closing documents. The Disclosure should be on separate sheets of paper, clearly identified.

4. Dollar Specifics - The currently-required Disclosure is not comprehensive and specific as to dollar amounts. The Disclosure should contain reasonable estimates of the dollar amounts for the first three (3) years for each tax, assessment, and/or monthly fee. Any bond obligations to be assumed by individual residents, the related interest rates, and repayment options should also be identified.

5. Undisclosed Liabilities - Any significant underfunded or unfunded liabilities of a CDD, potentially to be paid by residents within the next ten (10) years, should be identified, explained, and fully disclosed.

6. Special Agreements - Any agreement between a developer, a district, and/or any other party, which could have a current or potential significant financial impact on current or future residents in the district within the next ten (10) years, should be identified, explained, and fully disclosed.

7. Covenants and Restrictions - These details applying to the property should be fully listed and explained to a layman's understanding.

8. Disclosure of Problems - The Disclosure should specifically disclose the presence or operation of any of the following within a ten (10) mile radius of the property of interest to a potential buyer: Railroad tracks, land fill, garbage dump, garbage transfer station, stone or sand quarry, cement plant, power plant, electrical substation, sewer treatment facility, fertilizer processing plant, animal slaughter facility, school athletic facility.

9. Procedures to Follow - Many complaints in the past refer to sellers or sales agents not following proper procedures, or, at the worst, actually misleading prospective buyers on disclosure issues. The Statute should require specific disclosure and compliance as indicated herein by sellers and/or sales agents.

10. Noncompliance Fines - These requirements for specific disclosure and compliance are substantially weakened if a penalty fine is not specified and enforced. The Statute should specify a penalty fine of at least $2,500.00 for each violation of these Disclosure requirements to be paid within thirty (30) days by a violator to a prospective buyer affected by a violation upon notice of the violation from the prospective buyer. The total fine shall double each thirty days until paid up to a maximum of $10,000.00. Any legal, court, discount, or collection fees required to accomplish the collection of a fine shall also be paid by the violator above and beyond the previously mentioned $10,000.00 maximum.

11. Annual Reporting - Developers and commercial sales agents should be required to submit an annual report summarizing their compliance with these Disclosure requirements, any instances of non-compliance, and detailing the payment of any required fines, under penalty of a separate $50,000.00 fine and any other criminal penalties identified by the Florida State Legislature for non-compliance with any part of this annual reporting requirement.

The POA Disclosure Reform Bill

The Disclosure Reform bill suggested by the POA in past years has been submitted to the 2007 session of the Florida Legislature by our friends at the Cyber Citizens For Justice, Jan Bergemann, President. The bill has been put into proper format and is now being considered. The original bill may not survive in its original form, if at all. However, this is a start. And, we need Villagers and POA members to support this bill by contacting our local Legislators.

In the House the bill number is bill number H 1373, sponsored by Representative Julio Robaina. In the Senate it is bill number S 2816, sponsored by Senator Alex Villalobos.

You can review the whole bill at: http://www.ccfj.net/PB07HB1373.html. If you click on CDD, the link will take you directly to the Disclosure Reform language.

In essence, the bill requires that:

- A Disclosure notice be given to purchasers of property in a CDD,
- The notice be on a separate sheet of paper,
- The name of the CDD be disclosed,
- Disclose that taxes or assessments can set annually by the CDD,
- These may be in addition to other taxes and assessments,
- The covenants and restrictions be disclosed,
- The additional taxes and assessments with 10 years be disclosed,
- A reasonable estimate of first 3 years of taxes and assessments be given,
- The disclosure be given within 10 days of the date of the purchase contract,
- Violations to be punished by fines of $2,500 per violation,
- Violation fines to be capped at a maximum of $10,000,
- Developers shall submit an annual report,
- Failure to submit annual report will incur up to a $50,000 fine.

Please contact our local Legislators and request that they support this legislation:

Senator Carey Baker
Representative Hugh Gibson






Return To POA Home Page

[graciegirl]

To whoever said we all knew what "we were getting into"

I wonder if this also holds true for our previous national elections

Read how residents of Florida are trying to succeed in having a voice as other states have had for years.


Proposed Revisions to SECTION 190.048, F. S.
To Strengthen Disclosure Rules
For the Sale of Real Estate in
Community Development Districts (CDDs)

The current disclosure language given to buyers at the time of home purchase in a CDD is in Section 190.048 Florida Statutes. The section is inadequate and should be revised. Revisions should apply to any sale of a CDD property by a developer or its agents. There are several issues that need to be part of a comprehensive Disclosure Reform bill as follows:

1. Timing of Disclosure - The currently-required Disclosure is often given to potential buyers too late in the buyer's decision-making process, or often delayed until the time of closing, or afterwards. The Disclosure should be given to a prospective purchaser: (a) no less than ten (10) business days prior to closing; or, (b) at an earlier date when the buyer first exhibits serious interest in a property; and, (c) updated at least three (3) business days prior to closing.

2. Receipt for Disclosure - Buyers often complain that the currently-required Disclosure was never given or was delivered after closing. A developer or its agents should be required to obtain a signed and dated receipt from a potential buyer indicating when the Disclosure was delivered.

3. Separate Sheet of Paper - The currently-required Disclosure is often buried in other lengthy closing documents. The Disclosure should be on separate sheets of paper, clearly identified.

4. Dollar Specifics - The currently-required Disclosure is not comprehensive and specific as to dollar amounts. The Disclosure should contain reasonable estimates of the dollar amounts for the first three (3) years for each tax, assessment, and/or monthly fee. Any bond obligations to be assumed by individual residents, the related interest rates, and repayment options should also be identified.

5. Undisclosed Liabilities - Any significant underfunded or unfunded liabilities of a CDD, potentially to be paid by residents within the next ten (10) years, should be identified, explained, and fully disclosed.

6. Special Agreements - Any agreement between a developer, a district, and/or any other party, which could have a current or potential significant financial impact on current or future residents in the district within the next ten (10) years, should be identified, explained, and fully disclosed.

7. Covenants and Restrictions - These details applying to the property should be fully listed and explained to a layman's understanding.

8. Disclosure of Problems - The Disclosure should specifically disclose the presence or operation of any of the following within a ten (10) mile radius of the property of interest to a potential buyer: Railroad tracks, land fill, garbage dump, garbage transfer station, stone or sand quarry, cement plant, power plant, electrical substation, sewer treatment facility, fertilizer processing plant, animal slaughter facility, school athletic facility.

9. Procedures to Follow - Many complaints in the past refer to sellers or sales agents not following proper procedures, or, at the worst, actually misleading prospective buyers on disclosure issues. The Statute should require specific disclosure and compliance as indicated herein by sellers and/or sales agents.

10. Noncompliance Fines - These requirements for specific disclosure and compliance are substantially weakened if a penalty fine is not specified and enforced. The Statute should specify a penalty fine of at least $2,500.00 for each violation of these Disclosure requirements to be paid within thirty (30) days by a violator to a prospective buyer affected by a violation upon notice of the violation from the prospective buyer. The total fine shall double each thirty days until paid up to a maximum of $10,000.00. Any legal, court, discount, or collection fees required to accomplish the collection of a fine shall also be paid by the violator above and beyond the previously mentioned $10,000.00 maximum.

11. Annual Reporting - Developers and commercial sales agents should be required to submit an annual report summarizing their compliance with these Disclosure requirements, any instances of non-compliance, and detailing the payment of any required fines, under penalty of a separate $50,000.00 fine and any other criminal penalties identified by the Florida State Legislature for non-compliance with any part of this annual reporting requirement.

The POA Disclosure Reform Bill

The Disclosure Reform bill suggested by the POA in past years has been submitted to the 2007 session of the Florida Legislature by our friends at the Cyber Citizens For Justice, Jan Bergemann, President. The bill has been put into proper format and is now being considered. The original bill may not survive in its original form, if at all. However, this is a start. And, we need Villagers and POA members to support this bill by contacting our local Legislators.

In the House the bill number is bill number H 1373, sponsored by Representative Julio Robaina. In the Senate it is bill number S 2816, sponsored by Senator Alex Villalobos.

You can review the whole bill at: http://www.ccfj.net/PB07HB1373.html. If you click on CDD, the link will take you directly to the Disclosure Reform language.

In essence, the bill requires that:

- A Disclosure notice be given to purchasers of property in a CDD,
- The notice be on a separate sheet of paper,
- The name of the CDD be disclosed,
- Disclose that taxes or assessments can set annually by the CDD,
- These may be in addition to other taxes and assessments,
- The covenants and restrictions be disclosed,
- The additional taxes and assessments with 10 years be disclosed,
- A reasonable estimate of first 3 years of taxes and assessments be given,
- The disclosure be given within 10 days of the date of the purchase contract,
- Violations to be punished by fines of $2,500 per violation,
- Violation fines to be capped at a maximum of $10,000,
- Developers shall submit an annual report,
- Failure to submit annual report will incur up to a $50,000 fine.

Please contact our local Legislators and request that they support this legislation:

Senator Carey Baker
Representative Hugh Gibson






Return To POA Home Page



I am so tired after reading this that I forgot what your point was Lady Kathleen.

[SteveFromNY]

Muncle - very well thought out and articulated. I agree!

[Sally Jo]

Muncie---- I couldn't have said it better.

[Beltlady]

You guys are using too big words for me. But I think I agree. I like it here and plan to stay.

[nanci2539]

You never see a reply from me on these types of topics but I must say, not bad, not bad at all Muncle.

[ladykathleen]

That is a shame, you forgot what I said ??????????? I said very little , however the Bill in the legislature says much. I do hope you read those words.

Okay, these posts most of them are tiresome and little more than posts for a chat room. Laws are not changed here and trying to educate in a chat room is futile. Fortunately there are people who care enough to get involved. I am one of them.

[Peggy D]

Muncie---- I couldn't have said it better.


Ditto

[MMC24]

If it wasn't for the developer - not one of us would be here and we would have nothing to complain about.

Developer thank you for creating this Paradise that we all enjoy everyday. Could it be better? Maybe Could it be worse? Certainly. Look around at some of the other developments in the area and we have nothing to complain about. We are the envy of every other 55 and younger development in the country. Muncie you are spot-on!!!

[ejp52]

Great post muncle,right on target. :bigthumbsup:

[jht]

muncle...I'm in total agreement. People who want a perfect world have to understand it never has and never will exist.

[graciegirl]

Muncle.

I agree with you again. I forgot to say that because Lady Kathleen got me sidetracked.

Oh boy.

[Mallory]

My general rule of thumb is that if the POA supports a particular issue, I would be on the opposite side. My belief is that they work for the special interests of few whiners and don't support the positive vision of The Villages as a whole.

[KCinBAMA]

In essence, the bill requires that:

- A Disclosure notice be given to purchasers of property in a CDD,
- The notice be on a separate sheet of paper,
- The name of the CDD be disclosed,
- Disclose that taxes or assessments can set annually by the CDD,
- These may be in addition to other taxes and assessments,
- The covenants and restrictions be disclosed,
- The additional taxes and assessments with 10 years be disclosed,
- A reasonable estimate of first 3 years of taxes and assessments be given,
- The disclosure be given within 10 days of the date of the purchase contract,
- Violations to be punished by fines of $2,500 per violation,
- Violation fines to be capped at a maximum of $10,000,
- Developers shall submit an annual report,
- Failure to submit annual report will incur up to a $50,000 fine.


So, other than the fact that the POA supports this legislation, does anybody have any problems with any of the points above? They seem reasonable to me, but, maybe I am missing something? As I understand it, this would apply to the 200+ CDD's in FL, not just TV.

Thanks,
Kurt (TV wannabe)

[mulligan]

It all comes down to doing your own homework before making a life altering decision, such as buying a home. I was a victim of my own ignorance in this respect in '81 when I bought a condo in Naples. Since then I got both an association managers license, and a real estate license in Fl. Neither one is current now, but thankfully, I feel I know most of the right questions to ask

[TomW]

Attaboy Muncie! My sentiments exactly.

[Barefoot]

Muncle, great post! :clap2: I'm in total agreement.

I am so tired after reading this that I forgot what your point was Lady Kathleen.

GG, :1rotfl: