Closed minds and defensive positions

[Guest]

It is amazing to me how people: 1) grab onto one candidate early in a campaign; 2) claim that particular candidate is the one and true person to fill an office; 3) vilify any other entry as being a dumbbell or worse; 4) argue until they turn blue to defend their position; and 5) claim to be "liberal in thought."

A political campaign is supposed to be a time when the candidates compete with each other to sell themselves, their ideals, their ideas, their opinions and their plans. The key word is compete. In short, they are selling themselves to the voter-customer.

There is no sale occurring until the voter enters the voting booth. Up until that time the intelligent voter-customer gathers as much information as s/he can - the same way any wise shopper does before laying out considerable cash on an important purchase.

If it were only that way!

I must admire Sen. Obama, and the Democratic National Committee, for the hypnotic effect which they generated, mainly by getting people not only to buy the goods without knowing what's really in the package, but also convincing people: 1) to refuse to possibly consider that the package may be a little empty; 2) to abjectly denounce any other package as being inferior without investigation (e.g., comparative shopping); and 3) to close their minds to any other information, view or opinion which even minutely questions Sen. Obama in any way or the substance of any DNC position.

When people question, they seek answers, not insults. They have not bought the goods yet (and may never), but they are still shopping and can still be sold. However, they see through double standards being applied and closed minds to other opinions. No political party holds a majority of American registered voters, so the necessity to "sell" others is paramount for any candidate to be successful.

The competition is between the candidates, not the voters. The sharing of knowledge and information by voter-customers is healthy, but taking defensive positions when answers don't exist and hiding behind closed minds when there are no answers is hollow - and any smart shopper tends to walk away from a hollow sales pitch, insults or abrasive salesmanship.

The truly liberal thinker seeks answers, shares information and knowledge, and believes that more is accomplished through education than dictation. The closed minded person says This is it, Period! and if you don't "get it," then you must be deficient in some way. The closed-minded so-called liberal is two things: an oxymoron for one, and a bigot for the other.

big·ot (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. (the freedictionary.com)

Open-minded exchange without posturing and insulting makes us all richer. Slamming only results in rejection and isolation. Who wins with that?

[Guest]

Good post.
Steve, I'm new here, but even after reading just a few of our posts, I like to say they are refreshing, balanced, articulate, and well written.

I hope to have the pleasure of meeting you someday.

I'd rather have those who have different viewpoints challenge me with facts and perhaps change my mind then ridicule my thinking without offering me a viable alternative. The lack of such only solidifies and verifies my current leanings.

Respectfully,

Frank D.

[Guest]

Hooray for you SteveZ. I couldn't agree more!

[Guest]

Amen Steve! :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup: So, how many shopping days left til the election?? ;)

[Guest]

STEVE, nice post...I could not agree more with your paragraph on the admiration that you have for Sen Obama and the DNC and for all the same reasons.

You said it well !

I just hope that the emptiness is exposed in the next 60 days !!

[Guest]

Its pretty easy for the voter to do their homework, look at the issues, then decide if a particular candidate is the one you'll vote for. The candidates need to present themselves and their stands on importnt issues to the voting public, then the voters make their choices.

Obviously it irks you that everyone isn't choosing McCain or has instead chosen Obama. You've made that clear in numerous previous posts. You seem to disagree with any opinion or expression of facts that puts Obama in a positive light or puts McCain in a negative light i.e. the liberal must be deficient in some way. You're certainly entitled to your views, but I don't agree with them.

[Guest]

You have "hit the nail on the head" again SteveZ!! Great Post!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Thanks for your confession Steve. I bet that feels good to get that off your chest. Almost all of your posts are far to the right and about as balanced as Fox Noise.

[Guest]

Speaking of balance JUNGLEJIM....I helped you out and got your source on the Palin story you stole from a poster on Google who added all the Palin stuff !

You are welcome JIM

[Guest]

Its pretty easy for the voter to do their homework, look at the issues, then decide if a particular candidate is the one you'll vote for. The candidates need to present themselves and their stands on importnt issues to the voting public, then the voters make their choices.

Obviously it irks you that everyone isn't choosing McCain or has instead chosen Obama. You've made that clear in numerous previous posts. You seem to disagree with any opinion or expression of facts that puts Obama in a positive light or puts McCain in a negative light i.e. the liberal must be deficient in some way. You're certainly entitled to your views, but I don't agree with them.

The only things that irk me are higher taxes, Cat 5 hurricanes and the designated hitter rule. Everything else is an intellectual challenge.

I have seen a lot of Sen. Obamas in my short life, all trying to sell the sizzle and not the steak. They preach one thing (change) and turn out to be more-of-the-same and my tax bill keeps rising.

I have considerable respect for Sen. McCain, but again, he is another Senator, and they operate in a peculiar vacuum - no responsibility and plenty of visibility. Senators have a way of never getting their hands dirty with actually providing services of any kind.

As an example - we have a terrible hurricane getting ready to hit the LA coast. Governors, mayors, parish (county) administrators, chiefs of police, FEMA officials, law enforcement officers from a myriad of services, first responders of all kinds, Coast guardsmen and National Guard Troops, the Secretary of Homeland Security, a few dozen people in the various Emergency Operations Centers, the folks staffing the National Operations Center and Gustav Crisis Action Team, and hundreds of volunteers - all on the line working 24/7 to make things better. That's the gutsy end of government service and why I believe Governors have a better understanding of what it takes to keep America running than anyone from the 100-Club.

Absent from the front work and clean-up during this coming fray will be the U.S. Senate (which has no responsibility except to not get in the way and make things more difficult) except for a few Senators who will exploit the event for sound bites and photo ops.

People vote for whomever they please, and it does not irk me for whom they vote. It's tragic when they don't, because many folk have paid the price so others have that right.

True, there is information regarding the candidates easily available, and that can be part of the rub. What's easy to get is not necessarily the truth, but instead a fabricated image created by people who make a living out of taking the sow's ear and selling it as a silk purse. That's why I like to dig a little deeper and not just believe the sales pitch and polyester cover.

As far as 'positive or negative light" is concerned, the candidates place themselves under the bulb. We just need to recognize it for what it is.

If the candidate cannot handle scrutiny, then the candidate has something to hide. People who have something to hide make for shaky sales risks.

I admit that I'm leaning towards Sen. McCain as the better of two Senators vieing for the job. That's only because he has spoken of reality and has shown he's no puppet of the RNC. That's the hurdle that Sen. Obama has to leap for my vote - show you are not the DNC's sock-puppet and speak realistically (no BS, catch phrases or I'll-give-you-everything rhetoric).

The race is not over, the goods have not been fully inspected, and the sale has not been consummated. There's still two months to go.

Oh yes, and if it is "being far to the right" to expect honesty, substance and capacity from a candidate for a government job, then call me Righty!

[Guest]

JUNGLEJIM...instead of being mean,nasty and vindictive...why dont you explain to anyone who reads this board on both sides of the aisle, WHY you did what you did on the WHO IS SARAH PALIN thread.

As I said to you there.....I want to be wrong on this...please show how I am wrong...it is hard to believe that anyone would do that !

[Guest]

Wow!
I cannot believe the meanness......

IMHO, all Steve was saying is that we should all discuss the platforms, and the facts that back up each sides platforms, instead of bashing.

The meanness just underscores what he was saying. I can't believe you are all neighbors! I thought the Villages was nicer then this political forum seems to show. I'm thinking I should just avoid this sub-forum, and enjoy the kindness I've been shown in the other TOTV forums.

I think Tallertrees (or something like that) posted a comparison. People bashed it saying it was not true.....but I think all the "conservatives" are waiting for those with democratic leanings to just post what the democratic platform is......what they say they will do, and more importantly, how they are going to do it. Instead of countering in a constructive way, the democratic leaning people have just attacked.
It seems to me if they are so correct, they would calmly state why, instead of getting so rabid. I really do not understand the hostility...???

As an outsider, it does seem to me that the conservatives have been taking the high road here, and the democrats have been a bit nasty.

If this is the way you all treat neighbors, I'm glad my future is down the road a bit.

Frank D.

[Guest]

Thanks for your confession Steve. I bet that feels good to get that off your chest. Almost all of your posts are far to the right and about as balanced as Fox Noise.


Funny!! So true, unfortunately. And I don't think most people even realize that.

[Guest]

Great post Frank...can you believe what some have done ? Amazing.

I began for the first time on this board but wanting to discuss issues....I brought up Sen Obama's backround, his training and his mentors as I believe that to be an issue due to his lack of anything but being a commmunity organizer. I was told that was not an issue, however Sen McCains age was.

Ok....I asked to discuss issues and was promptly referred to Sen Obama's website. No discussion but many names called.

VILLAGEKAHUNA has tried to address issues...he is a supporter of Sen Obama but has tried to discuss issues as he sees them...had to say that because he has tried to do that.

But it sure makes you wonder....I have come to the conclusion that folks are not voting for Sen Obama...they couldnt if they looked at facts....but voting instead AGAINST the current administration. Actually I understand that..I reallydo...I just dont think it is wise to do that especially with these candidates.

Would I like two other candidates...yes, but to me the issues and everything else make this two man race very easy ! I respect all others opinions....but I dont even get them...just slams !

[Guest]

I admit that I'm leaning towards Sen. McCain as the better of two Senators vieing for the job. That's only because he has spoken of reality and has shown he's no puppet of the RNC.

No, he's only a puppet of Bush, having voted with him 95% of the time in the past year.

[Guest]

Steve & Bucco, I found an article about your people!

LAKELAND, Fla. -- Todd Bentley has a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors. .............

At least he puts his money where his mouth is..... AND he has the same vote that you do.

[Guest]

No, he's only a puppet of Bush, having voted with him 95% of the time in the past year.
__________________________________________________ _________________

As opposed to Sen Obama voting for his party 97% of the time....but you know when you have as few votes as he has had, it is tough I know...oh, and being voted the most liberal Senator is just because he has not been there for only about 3 months or so....I understand

[Guest]

Hey guys youall should go back and read junglejims posts for the last few months, it's quite telling. He cant make a sentence without the most vile bilge coming out. I hope he doesn't represent the kind of dems that live in tv.
He calls it Fox"Noise" because Fox News has the audacity to put both sides of any issue on the air.
He quotes the Daily Kos, you know the blog that celebrates Tony Snows death, wishes Cheney would die( jungle jim posted yesterday that "Bush,Cheney, and "Dumsfeld" should be taken out and executed"), celebrates any one on the rights terminal or debilitating illness as something to applaud.
If there are any fair minded Dems out there not on the loony left, You should stand up and denounce what these people do in the name of Democratic views. Views like Ward Churchill saying the people in the towers deserved to die. Views like congressman Murtha calling marines murderers. Views like destroying property and disrupting free speech as long as it's conservative free speech. Views like supporting our troops as they do in San Francisco.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think there are fair, intelligent people in tv,on the left who couldn't agree with these tactics. But If you don't speak out, I'm going to have to assume that the whole Democratic party has gone over to the dark side. I think most people who live here in tv aren't those kind of people( junglejim excluded). Benj

[Guest]

BENJ.....there does seem to be a trend. What JUNGLEJIM did tonight with the Sara Palin thread in stealing a post from an another poster on another board and posting it without checkng and then finding it to be false is really bad,but all those who have lectured me and others when we post our OWN THOUGHTS, etc are mysteriously silent in their chagrin.

I suppose the high road is something they travel on when convenient !

[Guest]

Bucco,

Maybe it's because at least we have some of our OWN thoughts. Benj

[Guest]

( jungle jim posted yesterday that "Bush,Cheney, and "Dumsfeld" should be taken out and executed"), celebrates any one on the rights terminal or debilitating illness as something to applaud.

This is a lie. I did not post this.

[Guest]

BENJ.....there does seem to be a trend. What JUNGLEJIM did tonight with the Sara Palin thread in stealing a post from an another poster on another board and posting it without checkng and then finding it to be false is really bad,but all those who have lectured me and others when we post our OWN THOUGHTS, etc are mysteriously silent in their chagrin.

I suppose the high road is something they travel on when convenient !

Another lie. I have given the source and the link.

[Guest]

Junglejim,

Your right. I got my libs confused. It was billy2fish who said that. I apologize. Now maybe you can apologize for some of the things you say.
The rest of my post stands. Benj

[Guest]

I was a registered Republican for years. Now I am an independent. The Republican party needs to denounce the Evangelicals and the neoconservatives who have been running the party. Republicans can't call themselves conservatives until they make that move.