Sarah Palin! Again!

[Guest]

I previously said I would not post in The Political Forum while the campaign was on, yet I did post in the Femme Forum to a question that was posed. Sarah Palin and Motherhood. My response was pulled. So, I'll try it here and see if it stays up.

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion. Today, they announce that her 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant. It happens, I get it. Yet, it all seems just fine to her because her daughter is going to have the baby and marry the father. :dontknow: Just another teen pregnancy. Senator Obama took the high road and said "leave families out of it."

OK, so let's talk about the fact that she was the Mayor of a town of only 7,000 people. And it has been stated, that she left that budget in tatters. Now she is the Governor of Alaska, a population of about 700,000 people, or 1/3 or the city of Chicago, or about 80 people per square mile. This is the person chosen to step in if something happens to the President. As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. She is also under investigation in Alaska. Is McCain kidding? It's not funny.

Please don't give the argument that this is only a VP. 3 weeks ago, Sarah Palin did not even know what a VP did. Her own words. This particular VP slot is important as this is a 72 year old man that has had 4 bouts of cancer.

I think this is the lowest form of pandering and insulting to all women. If he thinks he's going to get the Hillary voters with Sarah Palin, that's a joke. Sarah Palin stands for everything Hillary Clinton has fought against all of her career. It won't wash.

McCain's choice speaks volumes about his judgement. Only meeting this woman one time, for 15 minutes, he decided she could run our country. He is so busy trying to be a maverick, he made an impulsive, and in my opinion, disastrous choice. This is not the kind of choices I want from the President, a man with his finger on the button. No thanks to the McCain/Palin ticket. You know, just when I think it can't get any worse, it does. We can't afford 4 more years of the same, whether you want to believe that or not. IMHO.
It's actually not 4 more years of the same -- it's worse!

[Guest]

...like I suggested in a couple of other political posts, none of us are convincing anyone. It seems that everyone's mind is made up. I'm not being critical of that because I know that my mind is made up.

That being the case, I'm not going to attempt to convince anyone else to reach the same conclusion on who to vote for as I have. Convincing myself was hard enough!

But I will read with interest the thrashing back and forth on the question of the presidential candidates. Every now and then a new factoid emerges--like the pregnant out-of-wedlock daughter of Sarah Palin. I heard that before, so I suppose it will be confirmed soon enough. It makes for an interesting juxtaposition of the vice presidential candidates on the subject of effective parenting however.

Anyway, the fireworks are about to begin, I'm sure. Have fun everyone...and please don't take any of this stuff seriously...at least until inauguration day.

[Guest]

I agree VK. Let the fireworks begin! http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/frkwrksmiley.gif (http://www.millan.net)

[Guest]

I must have missed the memo that decreed the appropriate size city or state to run.

I must have also missed where it states what size city or state (of any size) the senator....any senator has run.

As far as having a pregnant teen....none of our business. I dare say there are more in TV who wished they didn't have a grandchild that way....but it happens. If it were a Hollywood darling like Brittany's sister it might be more acceptable.....to some.
I was impressed with Obama's response....leave the family out of it.

As was stated by several members of this forum, when one thinks they have discovered something note worthy enough to put in print...it would be extremely helpful to name the source so we can all partake and have other than parroting or hear say.

I hope all are wise enough to know that there is a team (on each side) whose objective is to dig into every aspect of anything about either party. They operate on the basis when they find something, it is better to get kudos for finding and releasing something...even prematurely or not quite true. Once the arrow has been fired an apology won't bring it back.....it's politics.

C'mon folks if the American standards will tolerate Bill Clinton's shenanigan's in the White House, how could anything anybody else does be a problem?????

BTK

[Guest]

BTK, there is nothing in my statement which is not true. And again, I too have a right to my opinion. ;)

BTW, if Bill Clinton's shenanigan's were the worst of our problems right now -- this country would be in good shape.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/chelsea24_photos/mcdesperate.jpg

[Guest]

I am not voting Republican...I am an Obama supporter...

However, I don't think Palin's pregnant daughter should be prime time news...

We all have skeletons in our closet...we shouldn't judge...and it shouldn't be an issue. I agree with Obama.

[Guest]

I agree VK. Let the fireworks begin! http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/frkwrksmiley.gif (http://www.millan.net)

Bang!

In this case we have a person who would be a heartbeat away from the presidency with comparable "experience" to a person who wants the job now.

Sen. Obama hasn't had the responsibility of running anything in his professional life, let alone a town of 7,000 or a state of less than a million (Alaska ranks 47th of 50 in population). So, whether or not he would leave the US budget in tatters, based on no experience of ever having responsibility for a budget of any size, should be a concern. Having no public administration experience (Sen. Obama or Sen. Biden) is an issue, and was Sen. McCain not having any as well.

The last small-state governor (Arkansas, 33rd of 50) to become a president was a Democrat, and Democrats stated then state size was not an issue.

Personally, I think both parties based their VP choices in order to go after voters which they believed the primary candidate would not carry. That is unfortunate, because both went for vote-getting as opposed to establishing a team of leader-and-advisor. But, that's politics (sadly).

[Guest]

No fireworks from this corner. I think there are a few valid points made in the first post, although I do find objectionable the Maher comment and the ridiculing political badge made part of the post....not sure what that kind of stuff has to do with anything but being a bit mean...however.....I see some of the points.

I do have a question for the beginner of this thread.......

If in fact selecting Gov Palin opens up his judgement, why then can we not discuss the mentors, associates and advisors of Sen Obama as it relates to his judgement ?

I also will add, and I agree with a bit of your comments on experience....that spending one entire paragraph discussing her family and various pregnancies and praising Sen Obama, I would have hoped such a post as yours would have mentioned the nasty rumors that made this particular announcement necessary not that Sen Obama had anything at all to do with that I considr that kind of slander (which did make it to this board) some of the lowest.

But in any case....just give me a response to my question and I will go away and allow whatever..

[Guest]

Bucco, I never said you do not have the right to take Obama's former associates into your consideration. But for me, I have already looked into these and put my mind at rest.

I would never presume to tell anyone what right they do or do not have.

[Guest]

I previously said I would not post in The Political Forum while the campaign was on, yet I did post in the Femme Forum to a question that was posed. Sarah Palin and Motherhood. My response was pulled. So, I'll try it here and see if it stays up.

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion. Today, they announce that her 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant. It happens, I get it. Yet, it all seems just fine to her because her daughter is going to have the baby and marry the father. :dontknow: Just another teen pregnancy. Senator Obama took the high road and said "leave families out of it."

OK, so let's talk about the fact that she was the Mayor of a town of only 7,000 people. And it has been stated, that she left that budget in tatters. Now she is the Governor of Alaska, a population of about 700,000 people, or 1/3 or the city of Chicago, or about 80 people per square mile. This is the person chosen to step in if something happens to the President. As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. She is also under investigation in Alaska. Is McCain kidding? It's not funny.

Please don't give the argument that this is only a VP. 3 weeks ago, Sarah Palin did not even know what a VP did. Her own words. This particular VP slot is important as this is a 72 year old man that has had 4 bouts of cancer.

I think this is the lowest form of pandering and insulting to all women. If he thinks he's going to get the Hillary voters with Sarah Palin, that's a joke. Sarah Palin stands for everything Hillary Clinton has fought against all of her career. It won't wash.

McCain's choice speaks volumes about his judgement. Only meeting this woman one time, for 15 minutes, he decided she could run our country. He is so busy trying to be a maverick, he made an impulsive, and in my opinion, disastrous choice. This is not the kind of choices I want from the President, a man with his finger on the button. No thanks to the McCain/Palin ticket. You know, just when I think it can't get any worse, it does. We can't afford 4 more years of the same, whether you want to believe that or not. IMHO.
It's actually not 4 more years of the same -- it's worse!

I could NOT have said it any better!!! I am a woman who stupidly voted twice for Bush because I believed everything he said to us, NOW , I am going to vote for Obama. I haven't voted Dem. in a long time BUT this year I will not be "brainwashed" again by "another Bush" which I think is McCain., My other reason for not voting for McCain is I think he's too hotheaded to be a President in these dangerous and turbulent times. God help us.

[Guest]

Bucco, I never said you do not have the right to take Obama's former associates into your consideration. But for me, I have already looked into these and put my mind at rest.

I would never presume to tell anyone what right they do or do not have.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Then I misunderstood you totally....I thought you said it was not an issue to be discussed.

I apologize

[Guest]

Obama was born to a teenage unwed mother. I am sure he can sympathize with the young girl's plight.

BTK- By the way, CNN reported McCain had several affairs while married to wife #1 and even applied for a marriage license to Cindy before his divorce was final. I think it was the series they did on their lives. You can probably find in on their website if you want to check it out. I am so over hearing about Clinton's escapade. I don't agree with it, but at least she was a female, unlike Mark Foley, Larry Craig, etc.

[Guest]

Palin's daughter can be the poster girl for another failed Bush policy, "abstinence only". Just remember that since Bush took office the government has spent over 1.5 BILLION on abstinence only nonsense.

Do doubt McBush, will continue on the same track!

Our tax dollars at work!

[Guest]

Just an observation....except for STEVE who gave stats and discussed the ISSUE of experience and BILLEKID...we have had thus far in this thread....

"As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. "


"BTK- By the way, CNN reported McCain had several affairs while married to wife #1 and even applied for a marriage license to Cindy before his divorce was final."

"Palin's daughter can be the poster girl for another failed Bush policy, "abstinence only".

AND of course the cute button mocking the Republican ticket.

just an observation on the expected "fireworks"

[Guest]

Bucco, sorry I don't see your point here. The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this?

[Guest]

What I find quite appaling is that Democrats are making this "17 year old un-wed mother to be" an issue, however if she would have just killed the little guy (another name for abortion), this would be a non-issue.

Quite disturbing.

[Guest]

Appropriate comment for today's tolerance in some quarters, Petegru.

Gutter politics at it's finest.

We have today three page ones for the New York Times all focused on Palin's daughter.

It is political and partisan tactics to keep the heat and the spot light off the real issues.

Oh if we could only get as much attention to the real intents of the candidates.

Tit for tat mudslingers (both parties) wasting our precious time and $$$$. It is so bad they have even passed up the war and energy independence as major topics. I know somebody will call me on the last time who ever said what about either subject.

There is way to little discussion of PRESIDENTIAL substance.

I have seen better campaigning content in high school and colleges.

BTK

[Guest]

What I find quite appaling is that Democrats are making this "17 year old un-wed mother to be" an issue, however if she would have just killed the little guy (another name for abortion), this would be a non-issue.

Quite disturbing.


This is what I find disturbing....A very negative Obama thread was posted here which contained these 2 comments:


HE IS PROUD OF HIS ‘AFRICAN HERITAGE’ (A FATHER
WHO GOT A GIRL PREGNANT AND DESERTED HER).

WHERE IS THE PRIDE IN HIS ‘WHITE HERITAGE’? (A
MOTHER WHO FLAUNTED CONVENTION AND DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD).

Actually they got married and divorced when Obama was 2 years old.

Now by my way of thinking you can't have it both ways...If it was wrong for Obama's mother to get pregnant at 17 and an issue is being made about that...then Palin's daughter getting pregnant at 17 is an issue. The Republican party has made itself out to be the party of Family Values...be in the recent past we have seen:

A Republican Senator nabbed at an airport for sex solicitation
A Republican Senator on the DC Madams list
A Republican Congressman hitting on the teenage male pages.

Obama's mother didn't get an abortion and neither will this young woman....if she is to be applauded for her actions then certainly so should Obama's mother.

[Guest]

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion.

------------------------------

The reason I am not voting for Obama is a protest to the sexism that went on during the Democratic primaries. Even Laura Bush has commented on it. The statement above reflects the kind of sexism women politicians have to face.

If a man with a 4 month old Down Syndrome child can run for office then a women also should be able to run without comment.

[Guest]

Palin gave a speech in June to the graduating class of her former church, Wasilla Assembly of God. She stated "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

This mentality is much more troubling than whether or not she is a great mother.

[Guest]

Palin gave a speech in June to the graduating class of her former church, Wasilla Assembly of God. She stated "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

This mentality is much more troubling than whether or not she is a great mother.
I think McCain rushed this VP pick and kept it quiet for a while is because he's probably afraid of what's going to come out about her.

[Guest]

Palin gave a speech in June to the graduating class of her former church, Wasilla Assembly of God. She stated "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

This mentality is much more troubling than whether or not she is a great mother.

Have we degenerated that much that such a sentiment is considered troubling? These comments could well have been said by FDR or Eleanor at any time from 1941 to 45, by Wilson in 1917, by Lincoln fom 1861-65, or Washington at Valley Forge. Now this mentality is troubling? If this is the prevailing attitude in this country, we're doomed.

[Guest]

So you actually believe the Iraq war is doing God's will? WOW!!!!!! I didn't realize the Crusades were started up again??

As an aside, Palin also suggested the same group pray for a $30 billion gas pipe line she wanted built in the state "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people to get that gas line built so pray for that."

Guess all her prayers are ultimately about oil.

A heartbeat away!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Not only is this prayer consistent with what former presidents would have offered but also what Jesus instructed his disciples in the Lord's Prayer: "Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven". This may be offensive to some, but to the vast majority of Americans it is standard theology.

[Guest]

What am I doing posting on here?

Sarah Palin is a little more conservative than me, and quite a bit more religious.

I am a (cradle) Catholic who supports legalized abortion, but never could have one. I also am for stem cell research. But I am very financially conservative.

I also could never have five children because I am to much a worrier.

I think she is a good person.

I am pleased that Senator Obama said "Let's leave the children out of this."

I still don't know who to vote for.

And I hope some of you still like me. I am too old to hide my views if I am going to comfortably live among you.

Why did I post in political. Omigosh.

[Guest]

What am I doing posting on here?

Sarah Palin is a little more conservative than me, and quite a bit more religious.

I am a (cradle) Catholic who supports legalized abortion, but never could have one. I also am for stem cell research. But I am very financially conservative.

I also could never have five children because I am to much a worrier.

I think she is a good person.

I am pleased that Senator Obama said "Let's leave the children out of this."

I still don't know who to vote for.

And I hope some of you still like me. I am too old to hide my views if I am going to comfortably live among you.

Why did I post in political. Omigosh.


Well some of my best friends are Republican and some Democrat. No matter who you vote for you can come over to my house for coffee...that is when I get there in Dec.

[Guest]

Not only is this prayer consistent with what former presidents would have offered but also what Jesus instructed his disciples in the Lord's Prayer: "Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven". This may be offensive to some, but to the vast majority of Americans it is standard theology.



Sorry, but to say that the war in Iraq is "God's Will" is just idiotic! Yes, I am a Catholic. I believe in prayer, but I don't believe other Presidents would have put the prayer in just that way. If she had left out "this is a task from God, or this is God's plan" it would have been fine. But to put it the way she did is not only troubling, it is disgusting. It's just wrong.

[Guest]

Chelsea,

Note that she did not say that Iraq war was God's will. To the contrary, she asked the students to pray that what we do in Iraq is according to God's plan and that our leaders are following God's plan by sending troops there. In other words, if sending troop to Iraq is not part of God's plan that our leaders would recognize this and bring them home. This idea of submitting to God's plan is a fundamental aspect of Christianity as well as most of the world's religions. Only when viewed through partisan lenses does it seem nefarious.

Edit: To clarify, I think this is a paraphrase of how you are reading this:
Pray for ... Also for this country, that and for our leaders, our national leaders, who are sending U. S. soldiers on a task that is from God. . The part in bold is what would have to be added and the part with the strike through would have to be deleted for it to mean what you think it means.

[Guest]

Well some of my best friends are Republican and some Democrat. No matter who you vote for you can come over to my house for coffee...that is when I get there in Dec.


Hugs to you. You just come to my house too.

[Guest]

If I can come, too, I'll bring some homemade cake!

[Guest]

Come one, come all.......

[Guest]

What is wrong with equality?? If Sarah Palin was a liberal democrat there will be no criticism. Maybe we did not know that the only women that are entitled to equality are Democratic/Liberals.

[Guest]

Bucco, sorry I don't see your point here. The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this?
__________________________________________________ _______

Chelsea, want to make a quick reply to you as I have been out all day...MY POINT was really aimed at the comments that you and VILLAGESKAHUNA made when you began this thread...something like....watch the firworks or something like that...anyway, it made me think that you two expected those that DISAGREED with you to give you a hard time.

My point was that the only "fireworks", ie. slamming of anyone came from you and those who seemed to support you and those who opposed your views were calm, reasonable and made their point without any making fun or slamming anyone. I have never nor will I ever go after anyone personally...nor do I or will I make fun of candidates, parties, etc whether I agree or disagree with them. Thus I am very sensitive to this point and notice it and what I posed was alluding to the fact that the fireworks you expected came only from those that agreed with you.

I dont care for those who make fun of others ESPECIALLY in this campaign.

I will add concerning your comment about "The RNC has done and will do much more name calling than these few comments. They have already attacked Obama's family and his religion. Have you forgotten all this" You obviously feel that the Democratic party is clean and does not do this...I will just inform you that is not true and could do a complete thesis on the state of political campaigns in this country..if you think that KOS and MOVEON talk about Gov Palin protecting her daughter by lying about whose baby is was was done and nobody in the Democratic party knew it, you had better take off your rose colored glasses.
I want to make clear...both parties do it and it is a shame...I, personally, just do not like it when it is made to appear to be a one way street.

In that vein, you know how I feel about Sen Obama's background and training, and I have read and heard a number of credible reports saying that there is sort of an unspoken agreement to try and stay away from this area at this point. I have no problem with and have never questioned Sen Obama's character...be clear on that...it is his idealogy that bothers me.
In any case, rumors abound that what they are doing to Gov Palin on a personal level may make the unspoken agreement go by the board.....again, please do not think that the KOS's and MOVEONS operate on their very own...they dont. I mention them because I believe KOS was the source of the nasty stuff this time.

Again and just to make it clear...I have never questioned Sen Obama's character..I have never made light of him or Sen BIden..it is based truely on what I consider to be radical idealogy.

This became a long short reply :) but again the post last night was just to point out where the "fireworks" and personal attacks were coming from and not from what I think you expected !

[Guest]

What is wrong with equality?? If Sarah Palin was a liberal democrat there will be no criticism. Maybe we did not know that the only women that are entitled to equality are Democratic/Liberals.


I have to strongly disagree with this post....the Liberal Democrats have been beaten over the head for a number of years as godless and lacking Family Values. Now the Veep candidate has a pregnant daughter...What do you think Dr. Dobson would have said if this was Joe Biden's daughter? Not even close to what he said today.

[Guest]

Someone explain to me, and I guess you will need to use little words to make me understand....

How can any candidate, male or female, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative be criticized because their daughther is pregnant ?

[Guest]

Someone explain to me, and I guess you will need to use little words to make me understand....

How can any candidate, male or female, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative be criticized because their daughther is pregnant ?

Bucco, you are trying to find logic in an illogical situation. The tendency is to accept the fact that your candidate and those around them are human - complete with frailties - and to villify the other candidate because the other candidate and all around them are not "perfect."

It's the old "you gotta find fault someplace" game, and it always seems to come when the need is to create diversions away from your candidate because yours is lacking substance.

[Guest]

I, personally, am not criticizing ANYONE on the fact that their daughter is pregnant. All I said is "it happens." I, in fact, pointed out that Senator Obama took the high road and said" Leave family out of it." I completely agree with him. Even though his own family and values have been attacked from day one.

My problem is not with Sarah Palin's daughter, my problem is with Sarah Palin. And no matter how the Karl Rove Machine spins this, this woman is not ready to be Vice President, much less ready to step in as President.

She's probably a very nice "hockey mom." But, again, choosing her speaks volumes about McCain's judgment. The impulsiveness of this judgment boggles the mind. That's MY opinion.

[Guest]

I, in fact, pointed out that Senator Obama took the high road and said" Leave family out of it." I completely agree with him. Even though his own family and values have been attacked from day one.
Don't think for one minute that the great Obama took the high road for non other than personal reasons.
He cant mock a women who is giving birth at 17 and unwed because of his mother.
He doesn't want family brought up because of his brother who lives on $2 a week but yet has the audacity to say "I am my brothers keeper" at the DNC. ::)
He doesn't want anyone digging into the lives of a 17 year old. He himself got drunk many times and smoked lots of weed when he was 17 (this was published in HIS own book).

So there's the big secret on why the great Obama took the so called "High Road" ::)

[Guest]

...
My problem is ...with Sarah Palin. And no matter how the Karl Rove Machine spins this, this woman is not ready to be Vice President, much less ready to step in as President.

....


And you may very well be right!

Conceding that, when one matches Gov. Palin's governmental record versus Sen. Obama's, where is that experiental difference between the two which makes Sen. Obama presently ready to be President now versus Gov. Palin now or at some later date? In the end, isn't is supposed to be about qualifications ?

[Guest]

Are you sure that Obama's mom was a teen when he was born? I thought that both of his parents were attending the University of Hawaii. I could be wrong, unless my granddaughter took his book, I still have it, and will look it up.

I am in Politics again. OH Boy.

[Guest]

I think it's strange that Bristol is always holding the baby instead of Dad holding the baby. Palin says they broke the news of Bristols pregnancy to quell rumors that Bristol is the baby's mother. They say Bristol is 5 months pregnant but that doesn't mean she isn't Trig's Mother.
She may be 4 months pregnant. Who's counting, right??? I hope her child is born early enough to totally discount the suspicion that Trig is her baby..not Sarah's. If the baby is Bristols child, then the coverup would be shocking, all things considered.

[Guest]

All I said is "it happens
_______________________________________________

WHY would you even need to say anything ? Oh, because they made a statement that day and you were commenting. Why did they make a statement ? Oh, because a few left wing bloggers were spreading a vicious rumor about the parentage of the Gov's child.....but oh, the Obama campaign knew nothing about any of this....they would never ever use MOVEON or KOS to do something like this !

PLEASE dont be naive...BOTH parties do this....but please do not insult everyone by implying that it is only one party or even one man who does this....please do not try to paint the Sen Obama campaign as the saints of the world. They were in full battle motion when this announcement was made. This is why I do not watch much of the MSNBC's (Obama's network) or the FOX's (McCains channel)....the campaigns just feed them junk and away they go. It is not easy to get straight information anymore...you have to verify and validate to get facts, but please do not imply or in any way suggest that Sen Obama has a campaign that does not do this stuff...of course he stays clean and above the fray.

Now we have added this post to the thread...

"I think it's strange that Bristol is always holding the baby instead of Dad holding the baby. Palin says they broke the news of Bristols pregnancy to quell rumors that Bristol is the baby's mother. They say Bristol is 5 months pregnant but that doesn't mean she isn't Trig's Mother.
She may be 4 months pregnant. Who's counting, right??? I hope her child is born early enough to totally discount the suspicion that Trig is her baby..not Sarah's. If the baby is Bristols child, then the coverup would be shocking, all things considered."

These are the same posters who will not discuss Sen Obama's background and training, nor discuss his Global Poverty Act, etc, but jump on stuff like this.

[Guest]

Bucco, I'm not discussing Obama. What if the above scenario were true? It is possible.
I could care less if Bristol has 10 kids in rapid succession. I just don't want the possible second in command of the USA doing a possible cover up. If this scenario ends up being true, the damage to McCain will be huge. The election will be over when her child is born. What happens to the credibility if Sarah becomes the VP and the grandchild is not born until March?
I just saw that the foreign bookies are taking action on McCain dropping Palin from the ticket. As a Republican, that sure gives me the warm fuzzies.

[Guest]

Yes she was 17....the same age as Palin's daughter is now.

[Guest]

I just don't want the possible second in command of the USA doing a possible cover up.
__________________________________________________ ________________

Please explain your source for even thinking there was a "cover up" ? Why do you think this is even possible ? Your source please ????

[Guest]

Bucco, If you are reading the press anywhere you know there is speculation. But never mind that. I am speculating. You don't think it's possible????

[Guest]

Furthermore, wouldn't it be easier just to produce the child's birth certificate?

[Guest]

NO, it is not possible in this case. That is a reprehensible thing to say. If you were watching with an honest eye, you would have seen Gov. Palin giving the child his bottle before going on stage, also the younger child holding the baby, her husband as well, and I can go on but hopefully you get the picture and this cruel gossip can stop.

I don't usually let my temper get the best of me, but this is just beyond disgusting, cruel gossip.

[Guest]

Has anyone reading anything that's been posted here changed their mind on who they intend to vote for in November?

[Guest]

;) I knew you were a smart man, Kahuna, not one bit!

[Guest]

Bucco, If you are reading the press anywhere you know there is speculation. But never mind that. I am speculating. You don't think it's possible?
__________________________________________________ _______________

I had to do a bit of pacing before responding to this as I was just about as angry as I can get.

LISTEN TO ME.....of course if any of the ugliness was true it would be political suicide...HOWEVER...

THIS WAS BEGUN BY A FEW LEFT WING BLOGGERS WITH NO BASIS TO EVEN SAY SUCH UGLY THINGS..THATS IT. TO DISCUSS THIS CRAP AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS...CRAP IS SO LOW AND DESPICABLE I CANNOT EVEN FIND WORDS.

The source is left wing bloggers ANDREWSULLLIVAN and KOS....they had no REASON..they just said it...and we stop talking about what this Governor has done, what she thinks on ISSUES and we discuss soap opera crap that has no....ABSOLUTELY NO...basis in which to begin in the first place.

What has this done.....the left has been successful in having something incredibly low and distasteful to hang over her head, and Sen Obama just as always says he had nothing to do with it. I dont say he did, but again...if you think these left wing blogs operate in a vaccuum you are dreaming.

[Guest]

I know it seems like cruel gossip. That is what I thought about the Edwards affair also. As it turns out, for Edwards it was true. I sincerely hope this is NOT true. I think Sarah Palin is a smart, beautiful woman. But this scenario is possible. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I am speculating about questions that exist in the news. I really hope that it is gossip with absolutely no basis in fact. I hope for all their sakes that a left wing nut made these things up and that the Palins will be vindicated. I wished that for Edwards also.

[Guest]

Has anyone reading anything that's been posted here changed their mind on who they intend to vote for in November?
__________________________________________________ ________________

In THIS PARTICULAR forum on TOTV ? I have seen nobody on the left EXCEPT FOR YOU, post anything except personal objections and things about babies..certainly an aversion to issue discussions. Some think that giving out Sen Obama's website is "discussing the issues"

I recall when you predicted "fireworks" on a thread../.and you meant from the right, you got NOTHING BUT SLAMS from the left and nothing but reasonable responses from the right.

What this particular forum, and I visit a few, has done has solidified for me what is important for most visitors to this site...NOT ISSUES :).....and has solidified my non support for Sen Obama.....as I said before, I am not a real hot supporter of Sen McCain, but as I have said and tried to discuss, I consider Sen Obama to be a radical left winger by training and experience and I, personally, dont want that in the White House. I am ok with a Democrat, or even a bit left wing, but not the radical.

So this particular forum thus far....still hope there may be real discussions at some time.....has simply validated what I felt coming in

[Guest]

I know it seems like cruel gossip. That is what I thought about the Edwards affair also. As it turns out, for Edwards it was true. I sincerely hope this is NOT true. I think Sarah Palin is a smart, beautiful woman. But this scenario is possible. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I am speculating about questions that exist in the news. I really hope that it is gossip with absolutely no basis in fact. I hope for all their sakes that a left wing nut made these things up and that the Palins will be vindicated. I wished that for Edwards also
__________________________________________________ ____________

CRUEL GOSSIP...yes...but it is the main subject this morning on this thread.

No comparison to the Edwards affair....that was a story LONG before and NEVER saw the light of day as he could have been the nominee...PLUS...AND THS IS A BIG ITEM...THERE WAS A REASON TO START THE GOSSIP :)

You say "this scenario is possible"...of curse anything is....so is the possiblitly that Sen Obama is a radical left winger but you cant discuss that even though it is much more important that what you want to discuss...PLEASE try and see this point....it is ok to foster this ugly rumor but NOT to discuss who trained the man who is possibly our next president or how he votes, etc. WOW

[Guest]

Hopefully Sarah will come out tonight with Trig's birth certificate and proof that Bristol was in school for the entire year with no evidence of a pregnancy. What is so hard about doing that? It would squash the rumor mill in it's tracks. Additionally,there have to be many pics of a pregnant Governor.

[Guest]

Hopefully Sarah will come out tonight with Trig's birth certificate and proof that Bristol was in scholl for the entire year with no evidence of a pregnancy. What is so hard about doing that? It would squash the rumor mill in it's tracks. Additionally,there have to be many pics of a pregnant Governor.
__________________________________________________ ________________-

I hope she DOES NOT. %^&*# them...she owes them nothing. Nobody is asking for birth certificates of Sen Obama's children. Do some googling on this....there are already left wing left sites talkng about how you can falsify such documents...nasty stuff !

[Guest]

I'm always amazed when the right can throw anything they want at the left, but when it's thrown back, they go scurrying around like trapped little mice.

I don't care if Bristol slept with all of Alaska and has 25 children. But this can be explosive for the righty's.

What I do care about is when I looked around the Republican Convention, I only saw a handful of faces of color. Aren't they part of this country too? In fact, the majority! That's how the Repubs are going to lose this election.

And where to they get off with the "Country First" slogan. Are we to believe that Democrates do not put our country first? These are not my words, but it did give me pause, when I listened to reporters talk about this looking like a Nazi Rally. Again, NOT MY WORDS!

Again, to me, Sarah Palin is a joke. Should she be dropped from this ticket? Absolutely. But for bigger reasons than babies. It was a rash judgment to begin with. ***side note: Why don't they produce Trig's birth certificate? Although those are easily doctored. Wouldn't that be a part of the vetting process that didn't occur?

[Guest]

Chels, I wasn't throwing anything. That is in TNES. ;) I was simply commenting on something I wondered about. I would like to see this issue resolved in Palin's favor.

[Guest]

SAMHASS...picture

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/sarah-palin-pregnancy-shocking-truth

[Guest]

I'm always amazed when the right can throw anything they want at the left, but when it's thrown back, they go scurrying around like trapped little mice.

__________________________________________________ ___________---

I am going to start with this tidbit from above.

First of all, from MY PERSONAL perspective, I have said this to you a number of times...BOTH SIDES ARE GUILTY.

MY OBJECTION is that either you or the right claim it is only one side......THAT IS MY PROBLEM

From your posts, you seem to beleive that it is ONLY THE RIGHT...the left is just simply saintly and wouldnt do anything that is my personal problem with what you say on this subject.

Fact is on the ugly rumor being discussed here...it was KOS and ANDREWSULLIVAN who blogged it. that is a fact...you can google each of them and find out their leaning and makie your own decision.

PLEASE STOP IMPLYING THAT ONLY THE REPUBLICANS DO THIS STUFF AND THAT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD NEVER....

[Guest]

Now that's what I call balanced and fair reporting!! :o

[Guest]

What I do care about is when I looked around the Republican Convention, I only saw a handful of faces of color. Aren't they part of this country too? In fact, the majority! That's how the Repubs are going to lose this election.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Just off the top of my head, the last two Secy of State under Republican WH were black..just a thought.

Now, you want race to be an issue by counting the color of folks faces as you say you did.....I am shocked you would make an accusation like that since I "think" you made an issue of something somebody said that race should not be discussed.

Is it now ok to discuss race ?

[Guest]

Again, you seem to miss the fact that I said NOT MY WORDS. But it did draw my attention to it. Look around tonight, make your own decision.

[Guest]

Again, you seem to miss the fact that I said NOT MY WORDS. But it did draw my attention to it. Look around tonight, make your own decision.
__________________________________________________ _________-

I missed nothing....

You said and I quote...."What I do care about is when I looked around the Republican Convention, I only saw a handful of faces of color. Aren't they part of this country too? In fact, the majority! That's how the Repubs are going to lose this election."

Not one mention of "not my words" !!! NONE.

Now, you did say "not my words" in relationship to some reporter calling it a nazi rally, but NEVER about the race issue.

By the way could you share with all the posters on here what commentator said that quote about the Nazi rally...as I would love to know...talk about immature and nasty "reporting"
'










'

[Guest]

Maybe you misunderstood me, that's what drew my attention to the lack of faces of color in the first place. Don't know which reporter as I was surfing many television channels.

But can you dispute it? Just wondering.

[Guest]

Maybe you misunderstood me, that's what drew my attention to the lack of faces of color in the first place. Don't know which reporter as I was surfing many television channels.

But can you dispute it? Just wondering.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
1. Did not misunderstand you. I quoted you by cutting and pasting YOUR remarks, read your post.

2. Dispute what ?

Now since you found it tidy to insert RACE and NAZIISM into this discussion, and now I know I misunderstood you but YOU BROUGHT IT UP...I happen to subscribe to a lot of news letters and websites on both sides of the aisle..even the extreme and the only mention of NAZI in regards to the Republican party or the Republican convention was an extreme site....called NOLANCHART.

RACE and NAZIISM..wow....new entries into the forum...most have stayed away from that !

[Guest]

Don't be startled Bucco. This is a forum, anything can come up. For the last time, I will say NOT MY WORDS. But this is American and it is my right to bring up something that fascinated me when I heard it. FREEDOM OF SPEECH, my friend. MY country too. After all, there was no problem trashing Senator Obama's wife, religion and patriotism.

[Guest]

Don't be startled Bucco. This is a forum, anything can come up. For the last time, I will say NOT MY WORDS. But this is American and it is my right to bring up something that fascinated me when I heard it. FREEDOM OF SPEECH, my friend. MY country too. After all, there was no problem trashing Senator Obama's wife, religion and patriotism.
__________________________________________________ __________________-

Well, let me say it this way...YOU may enjoy throwing those kind of words and charges out there...I dont and wont. You can talk to someone else about anyone being a Nazi or racist...I, for one, do not get that low...my opinion. Others on here may want to talk with you along those lines but not me !

[Guest]

Again, and for the last time, NOT MY WORDS. But take a look tonight, it's very interesting.

[Guest]

There sure are a lot of words being printed here and opinions given by using disclaimers like "not my words". If they aren't your words why are you repeating them?? :dontknow:

[Guest]

Yes, good question. I'd like to know why the "words" or slams about Senator Obama's wife, patriotism and religion were repeated too? :dontknow:

[Guest]

I think of this quote from Doris Lessing,

"It is terrible to destroy a person's picture of himself in the interests of truth or some other abstraction",

applies to the reputation of ALL the candidates and their families and is important to remember in maintaining our own character and integrity.

[Guest]

Very noble thought, Peachie and I agree with you. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be how politics works in this country (or any other for that matter.) When Senator Obama tries not to strike back, he was accused of being weak. It's just a Catch 22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Guest]

Perhaps if we begin raising the bar, one by one, Chels. :dontknow:

[Guest]

Peachie,
Are you and Chels a tag team?

[Guest]

Perhaps if we begin raising the bar, one by one, Chels. :dontknow:


Peachie
You filled my day with laughter and light...raising the bar what a joke.. the dems cant go much lower even if they try. I just cant believe that open minded women will go for this stuff without taking offense. Don't kid yourself this kind of hate is being aimed right at you.
Can you imagine what they would say if someone said Obamas kids were really fathered by Bill Cosby, Or that one of his daughters was not his, OMG they would go nuts , BUT it's ok if said about Sarah Palin. I think it shows how afraid they are about her.
This reminds me of the blind faith put on Clinton, no matter what his faults. My friend says if they caught Bill Clinton " doing " his dog (4 legged) in the oval office , they would of said Look he's an animal lover.
My point is that the dems are rallying around people who are course and as low as they can go and they seem to be proud of their views. Benj

[Guest]

CHELSEA

YOU brought up whether you originated the thought or not...YOU are the one who brought race and nazi stuff into this thread. Nobody but you. You used your self in the first person when you posted first on the race and have yet to correct that.

YOU respond ONLY by talking about poor Sen Obama as if that was the single and only source of criticism...it appears you are so close minded that you cannot see the real world. I have said to you on many many occassions....it is both parties...you have yet to agree with that and in just about every post you bring up how Sen Obama is being mistreated.

PEACHIE...says raise the bar as if it were not YOU, CHELSEA who lowered it. Nobody, even in the worst of times on this board to my knowledge has even lowered themselves to repeat what you said on here today.

Again, I do not talk to folks who bring up race and talk nazi stuff. If it were not your words on race..your post says it was you.....or Nazi, WHAT IN THE WORLD WOULD prompt you to even bring it up. I mean, WHY ? I would think you would be appalled at such language, and if you posted anything about it, it would be your disgust at such a remark.

Also, I will and have already begun to try and find what commentator said something like that and it did not even make the news....some one once said that Democrats are whiners and it was in the news for a week...but in any case, I am investigating each and every networks web site along with the blogs because I cannot believe in American today, this kind of language toward a party convention would be allowed. You bringing this stuff here is bad enough !

I dont know what else to say....I have been literally begging to discuss issues but it seems that Gov Palin's daughters pregnancy and comments on race and naziism are the prevailing thoughts. Those who are writing in the thread about declaring some sort of halt to the politics forum, are quick to jump here to talk about some soup opera situation that has never existed except on blogs and to bring up a racist and nazi comment. Seems to me that maybe responding to posts by STEVEZ or VILLAGESKAHUANA to discuss issues would be much more productive and adult !

[Guest]

Yeah, but you know what Benj? My blood pressure is normal, I'm happy, I sleep well at night even when things aren't so great and best of all; I have hope and faith in humanity. What is left if we lose civility?

[Guest]

Yeah, but you know what Benj? My blood pressure is normal, I'm happy, I sleep well at night even when things aren't so great and best of all; I have hope and faith in humanity. What is left if we lose civility?



Peachie,

Please dont misunderstand me. My comments were not aimed at you. I dont know if your Dem or GOP.
I am tyring to say that it's the civility that I'm looking for. Are those comments and accusations civil?. Is leaking Sarah Palin's SS# on left wing blogs civil?. Is vandalizing Denver vehicles that have the nerve to put McCain bumper stickers on their car civil?. Is throwing bleach on delegates to the GPO convention civil?. The dems say it's right wing people doing this but I don't see it.
I too sleep well and am happy, my only worry is that(not even Obama) but other people who will do the most base, unfair, and vicious things just to RULE us might prevail. But I like you have hope and faith in humanity and hope that fair minded Dems think about who it is that claim to represent them and their values. Benj

[Guest]

And Alex, that tag team reference.... if that means do I respect Chels, I sure do!! :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

And Alex, that tag team reference.... if that means do I respect Chels, I sure do!!
__________________________________________________ ________________--

You are ok with what she has posted ? Maybe it is me

[Guest]

Lol, Bucco I was thinking I probably should have told you I have respect for you also and I came back to the site and darned if you didn't beat me to the thought. I don't need to have everyone swallow my thoughts to give them respect, Bucco. Our thoughts are just that, what we have created in our minds and I know there is no possible way to align everyone's perspective and ideals in most matters, particularly the election. And then add a big dollop of ego to all the controversy and we wandered far from what was intended. IMHO, the wonderful people in this forum read the posts, can determine what is concrete to this election and ignore the rest of the rambling. And I sincerely believe in my heart that whether John McCain or Barrack Obama and their respective VP's are elected, this country will be in good hands. I believe they both care deeply for this country and will do everything in their power to maintain our wonderful freedom. What they also bring to the table, is who will receive the perks. That is why no one's mind is being changed by these ramblings. Bottom line is that we are all going to vote for the President and VP who best serves our vision. May the media stop skewing the candidates, the candidates debate for the public and we will chose for ourselves.

[Guest]

I think Bucco and Chels should meet face to face. You might like each other.

[Guest]

I agree 040

[Guest]

Good post Peachie.....I agree I dont either need anyone to swallow my thoughts either. I am on record that I learn more from forums such as this than I give. I realize disagreements also and do not expect agreement.

Since it is a fact that both sides are doing things they shouldnt do, my initial thing today was the implication that it was one sided, but when I hear AND I DONT CARE WHETHER IT IS YOUR WORDS, HER WORDS OR ANYONES WORDS racism and the nazi word brought up or implied I am just disgusted.

I have said and will repeat...I do not support Sen Obama....however if he is elected I will surely respect him as my President.....and also AGAIN say I have never questioned his character or anything of the such.

I simply do not like the politics of hate !

Thanks again for your post PEACHIE..I know my answer was long and winding and for that I apologize...hatred like this is one of those issues that just ignite me :)

[Guest]

SAMHASS and PEACHIE....

I was so angry this morning when I read the racism and nazi stuff that being in my presence would not be a good thing. If we could drop that crap and get on with issues, maybe :)

[Guest]

Bucco, I'm trying to get you interested in the atom smasher that CERN has created. I think that may be a larger, albeit different issue. The first test is on the 10th.

[Guest]

Bucco, final thought here. Hope you calmed down by now. You seem to take all of this very personally. But just in case you think this kind of reference is one-sided, please look at the link below from Fox.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/15/foxs-tom-sullivan-compares-obama-to-hitler/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q86O7qh44I0


As you can see, it's dirty pool in both directions. I apologize if the previous post offended you. I was repeating something I had heard that made me stop and listen. That's all it was.

[Guest]

Bucco, final thought here. Hope you calmed down by now. You seem to take all of this very personally. But just in case you think this kind of reference is one-sided, please look at the link below from Fox.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/15/foxs-tom-sullivan-compares-obama-to-hitler/


As you can see, it's dirty pool in both directions. I apologize if the previous post offended you. I was repeating something I had heard that made me stop and listen. That's all it was.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Stupid ignorant man making stupid ignorant immature comments is my thought on it.

I never doubted it was in both directions....why you said that is beyond me...I have preaching to you that it is a two way street on about every post.

YES I was offended because comments like repeated gain ground and credibility. I find them offensive and if I had heard them I would have sent off an email to the network yelling loud and clear..probably called today and IF I posted it here it would be in the context of disgusting comments !

[Guest]

Now take off your Democratic t shirt and go over to STEVE's thread on the economy, a REAL ISSUE and the thread about whether there ever was a perfect candidate...a POLITICAL discussion point, BOTH without any party labels attached ! :)

[Guest]

So Sam, what's with this atom smasher by Cern. Pm me on it. Vetman is interested. :bigthumbsup:

*** I'll check it out Bucco. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

At dinner with two other couples tonight, the subject of the Palin nomination and all that has happened since came up. We were not having a political discussion and the comments made by two of the women were brief and out of the context of the rest of our dinner conversation.

Two of the three women, both mothers of several children, said that they were intending to vote for John McCain, but will not now that the news regarding her daughter has come out. One commented that there was no way she could respect and vote for a woman who puposely ruined the life of her own daughter, a young man who might be her son-in-law, and possibly even her first grandchild, all as the result of her own career ambitions. The other mom in our dinner group opined that she thought that, knowing that her daughter was pregnant and the media feeding frenzy it would create, Governor Palin should have responded "Thanks,Senator McCain, but my family has other important issues right now that take precedence over your invitation to join the ticket as VP." Both women agreed that at her young age, Palin still had plenty of time to further her political career after dealing with the needs of her daughter.

Frankly, that's not the kind of emotional response I could eve have had. Nor could I have anticipated how a mother might feel.

Do any of you Mothers out there in cyber-land share the feelings of the wives of my two friends? Just curious.

By the way, after seeing both Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorino speak tonight, I wondered why they might not have been invited to join the ticket. That kind of a combination would have been compelling in my opinion.

[Guest]

Just a thought. How would the daughter have felt if her mom gave up a chance to be VP because of her? Seems like a guilt trip for life. The Dems and the media, I know the same, are the ones putting her in the spotlight. If she was the daughter of a Democratic nominee it wouldn't be an issue.

[Guest]

If she was the daughter of a Democratic nominee it wouldn't be an issue.
__________________________________________________ ___________________-

I assure you that if it was the daughter of a Dem nominee she would be hailed as a hero.

Gotta tell you KAHUANA....I was a Democrat for many years...well, a lot until the mid 70s's when I left that party because of their phoney promises to poor people...PHONEY !

IN the last 4 days my decision to leave, and my decision on this particular election is set in stone. Despite not being overwhelmed with the selection for VP...despite disagreeing with a lot of what Sen McCain proposes, guess what....TOTV and a few of you have convinced me that the elitism and insensitivity of most liberals (certainlynot all) is just not going to become moderate.....the hijacking by the extreme far left is now complete. Sen Obama may well win this election, but the last few days have motivated this old guy to get back in the game and do whatever I can do to keep what I consider a very extreme ticket from winning !

[Guest]

I really wanted Romney to be named VP. In fact I voted for him in the primary. I don't care for McCain, however, Sarah Palin has won me over. She knocked it out of the park tonight. The reason the Democrats are going after her so hard is because they know she was a great pick. If she is so terrible why aren't they happy???

[Guest]

....
The other mom in our dinner group opined that she thought that, knowing that her daughter was pregnant and the media feeding frenzy it would create, Governor Palin should have responded "Thanks,Senator McCain, but my family has other important issues right now that take precedence over your invitation to join the ticket as VP." Both women agreed that at her young age, Palin still had plenty of time to further her political career after dealing with the needs of her daughter.
...

The only reason there is a "media feeding frenzy" is because of the small-minded people who voyeur into the lives of others. These are usually the same people who cry "my right of privacy" if anyone even peeked at them by accident, but find it necessary to gape, gasp and gripe over others. I don't know what's more pitiful, those who make a living out of sensationalizing stuff for money or those who buy it.

There is a difference between news and nasty gossip. I can't picture the person who is proud of spreading gossip or opining about its content.

Whether it is Senators Biden, McCain or Obama, or Gov. Palin, the gossiping stinks. I don't know of any family that doesn't have what they consider "family business" which should not be "public gossip." There is no "right to know" about anything other than the candidates themselves - their capabilities, qualifications and experience. Beyond that, it's voyeurism because some people find it titillating.

If you want to go after the candidates because they chose the public limelight - have a ball. Leave the kids, parents, siblings, in-laws, grandparents and neighbors in peace - unless you are willing to accept the same scrutiny on your own lives - and have it become national gossip.

Every religion I know of considers gossiping a nasty behavior. Even for the non-religious, bad manners is bad manners.

[Guest]

At dinner with two other couples tonight, the subject of the Palin nomination and all that has happened since came up. We were not having a political discussion and the comments made by two of the women were brief and out of the context of the rest of our dinner conversation.

Two of the three women, both mothers of several children, said that they were intending to vote for John McCain, but will not now that the news regarding her daughter has come out. One commented that there was no way she could respect and vote for a woman who puposely ruined the life of her own daughter, a young man who might be her son-in-law, and possibly even her first grandchild, all as the result of her own career ambitions. The other mom in our dinner group opined that she thought that, knowing that her daughter was pregnant and the media feeding frenzy it would create, Governor Palin should have responded "Thanks,Senator McCain, but my family has other important issues right now that take precedence over your invitation to join the ticket as VP." Both women agreed that at her young age, Palin still had plenty of time to further her political career after dealing with the needs of her daughter.

Frankly, that's not the kind of emotional response I could eve have had. Nor could I have anticipated how a mother might feel.

Do any of you Mothers out there in cyber-land share the feelings of the wives of my two friends? Just curious.

By the way, after seeing both Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorino speak tonight, I wondered why they might not have been invited to join the ticket. That kind of a combination would have been compelling in my opinion.


Kahuna, the views of your dinner companions are not mine but close. You really have to run your own railroad before you can run the nations. I have raised a child with a disability and believe me it is a full time job, and one that can, if you give enough effort make a huge difference. I know I will be slammed by the women who think that I am an old fashioned family values person first. Not so. I just think that you have to deal with the challenges you are given with your own values. Because of my family history and the fact that my mother died at birth, I could not do anything other than put Helene first. I certainly am not VP material, but I am the queen of the universe to my daughter and she to me.

I know. I am such a girl. Just my two cents. Just me being me.

I can't vote for McCain now. I think he acted impulsively in choosing Palin who is a good person, just not my kind of good person.

[Guest]

Here I go again, posting against my better judgement.

Sarah Palin completely won me over last night, in fact, the thought has crossed my mind that the country might be better served with her at the top of the ticket!

As far as her family responsibilties, as a Mom of 3, I understand the concern about where her priorities should be. I am not and never have been a feminist and felt very fortunate that I was able to be a stay-at-home Mom for my boys. However, I've learned that "my way" is not necessarily the "right way" for everyone. It seems that she has the complete support of her husband and family and it has also occurred to me that her children might benefit immensely from her rise in the political arena, in spite of the downfalls of being in the spotlight and having to deal with vicious rumors and lies. It is a shame that family members of both parties have to deal with this, but it seems that is the way of the media today.

I am very concerned about the future of our country, and pray that whoever is elected can lead us through what I am afraid are turbulant times ahead.

OK, now on to good thoughts about our move to TV and getting to meet all of you wonderful sounding people, no matter how we differ politically!

Karen

[Guest]

These women who poo-poo her for "putting her daughter through this," would be more logical to think --- If I were her daughter, how terrible I would feel the rest of my life that because of something I did, my mother did not fulfill her extraordinary opportunity to be the VP of the United States. That would be the cruelty, not as you suggest. How anyone could say Gov. Palin ruined the life of her daughter must have a little too much vino at dinner. This young lady is fortunate to have such a loving mother and family support system. Bristol Palin has a fiance who also happens to be her high school sweetheart. God Bless them in their upcoming marriage. Gov. Palin is also married to her high school sweetheart. They're doing just fine too.

I'd be proud to vote for Sarah Palin. I'd put her on the top of the ticket as well.

[Guest]

Here I go again, posting against my better judgement.

Sarah Palin completely won me over last night, in fact, the thought has crossed my mind that the country might be better served with her at the top of the ticket!

As far as her family responsibilties, as a Mom of 3, I understand the concern about where her priorities should be. I am not and never have been a feminist and felt very fortunate that I was able to be a stay-at-home Mom for my boys. However, I've learned that "my way" is not necessarily the "right way" for everyone. It seems that she has the complete support of her husband and family and it has also occurred to me that her children might benefit immensely from her rise in the political arena, in spite of the downfalls of being in the spotlight and having to deal with vicious rumors and lies. It is a shame that family members of both parties have to deal with this, but it seems that is the way of the media today.

I am very concerned about the future of our country, and pray that whoever is elected can lead us through what I am afraid are turbulant times ahead.

OK, now on to good thoughts about our move to TV and getting to meet all of you wonderful sounding people, no matter how we differ politically!

Karen




Well said Karen. I am blessed with another beautiful mind living close to us.

[Guest]

I thought Sarah Palin was nothing short of superb last night. As a Republican, I watched and listened carefully. Although they talked the talk, I have not seen McCain walk the walk in terms of the Bush Admin's failed policies. As much as I admire Palin, I worry about her ability to separate church and state. Her abortion stance worries me as well. I never had an abortion in my life but do not think a woman should be deprived of choice as long as it is within strict parameters. Abortion should not be used for birth control.
Last night I think I got told what I wanted to hear. In the cold light of morning, I am left to wonder about the veracity of all that I heard.
A big issue with me will be taxes. None of us wish to be taxed more than we are at present.
It would be interesting though, to see how much taxes are paid by big corporations. I do not wish for them to be taxed unfairly, but everyone should pay a fair tax on profits IMHO.

[Guest]

[quote=Karen88 ]
Sarah Palin completely won me over last night, in fact, the thought has crossed my mind that the country might be better served with her at the top of the ticket! I've learned that "my way" is not necessarily the "right way" for everyone. [quote]

Beautifully said Karen. If we could all just realize that "our way" is not necessarily the "right way" for everyone. After the initial controversery about the mothering abilities and morality of the Palin family dies a well-deserved death, we will be left with an excellent VP candidate.

Whether Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin is successful, at the end of the day, we are privileged to have such excellent candidates running for office.

[Guest]

:agree: :agree: with Karen and Tall Trees. The debate should be really interesting ---the hockey Mom will be a Pitbull! What a country!! :#1:

[Guest]

Joe Biden sort of gave her a very notable compliment in a back handed way (not a negative comment!!!)....he said she is certainly a very knowledgeable speaker and will certainly be a challenge in our upcoming debate.

These are valuable comments as they are real and haven't been influenced yet with the party line position yet (done by both sides).

As far as rating speakers she gets very high marks...she is not a script/teleprompter reader only. She uses the teleprompter like many of us would use notes. Good public speaking will always be a function of how well an individual knows their subject. When they know it well they deliver well and the best part is, when off podium they don't stutter and stammer because they know.
I think she is an excellent speaker.

BTK

[Guest]

Sarah Palin:

You won my vote yesterday
Chels it's nice to a calmer side of you. You go girl. :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

This isn't political but just a comment about what I observed during the Palin speech. As Dr. Phil has said numerous times "the #1 most influential person in a child's life is the same sex parent." I watched as Mr. Palin handed the newest member of their family over to their youngest daughter. She took this child so gently and I watched as the camera panned to her as she was wetting her palm and slicking down the baby's hair. I chuckled
at this but it also touched my heart. Another time she was gently wiping the baby's eyes. Obviously there is a lot of love in this family and it was certainly reflected in this little girl's face and in her actions. I have made no decision about the election but will certainly be watching the debates so I can make a knowledgeable decision.

[Guest]

Peachie
You filled my day with laughter and light...raising the bar what a joke.. the dems cant go much lower even if they try. I just cant believe that open minded women will go for this stuff without taking offense. Don't kid yourself this kind of hate is being aimed right at you.
Can you imagine what they would say if someone said Obamas kids were really fathered by Bill Cosby, Or that one of his daughters was not his, OMG they would go nuts , BUT it's ok if said about Sarah Palin. I think it shows how afraid they are about her.
This reminds me of the blind faith put on Clinton, no matter what his faults. My friend says if they caught Bill Clinton " doing " his dog (4 legged) in the oval office , they would of said Look he's an animal lover.
My point is that the dems are rallying around people who are course and as low as they can go and they seem to be proud of their views. Benj


Oh brother. And this from someone who has falsely accused Obama of being a Muslim, and saying that if he's elected President we won't be able to sing God Bless America. What a double standard.

[Guest]

OK, don't jump on me, and I don't think it was Sarah Palin's fault by any means, but I think her speech came off shrill and negative. I think the Republicans did her a disservice with that speech. When she spoke about herself, she seemed much warmer, but when she attacked, nostrils flaring, it just doesn't sit well. I would have liked to hear more about her and her resume to perhaps step in as President. Usually the VP is the pitbull, but in this case, I think they should have left it to John McCain. I think they would have had a much more winning ticket. Making her come off as so aggressive just opens the door wider and gives Joe Biden more leeway to attack back. The Republicans really should have been smarter about this.

Also, for a party that pride's itself on "family values" I think the buttons that read "The hottest VP were completely sexist. Sorry, I can't see it any other way.

I don't like her politics. Also, her daughter does become fair game when you realize that Sarah Palin is Pro-abstinence , against Sex Education and against abortion, even in times of rape or incest. I have a daughter and I wouldn't want this woman making laws that would affect MY daughter's life. She is against everything Hillary has fought for her entire career, so I know they will not get the Hillary voters.

I still think this choice was impulsive and rash and tells me a lot about John McCain.

[Guest]

The only person in the mainstream media that has weighed in Palin's ability to be a mother and a Veep at the same time is Dr. Laura. She's against it and for sure she is not a liberal.

Even the ladies on The View refused to comment when Elizabeth Hasselback went off.

If this was a liberals child Rush Limbaugh would be all over it...and everyone on this board knows that in their heart of hearts.

Teenage pregnancy is NOT a good thing...this child is looking at a long road ahead. The father, on his My Space page, said he didn't want kids. Now he is front and center most likely with a deer in the headlights look.

Instead of talking about this we should be looking at Sarah Palin's record....

If you want to talk about that I am surely ready for that.

[Guest]

...

I don't like her politics. Also, her daughter does become fair game when you realize that Sarah Palin is Pro-abstinence , against Sex Education and against abortion, even in times of rape or incest. I have a daughter and I wouldn't want this woman making laws that would affect MY daughter's life. She is against everything Hillary has fought for her entire career, so I know they will not get the Hillary voters.

...



This is a funny country where the 17-year-old daughter of a candidate is "fair game," but at the same time the children of illegal aliens are considered "innocent victims" of their parent's actions and these kids are to be treated with dignity and open-heartedness. I guess I just don't see where there should be "hunting seasons" on those who do not have to justify anything to anyone other than their parents and their Maker. Anything else IS being vicious just for the sake of wanting to lash out at another but not being able to do so.

As the father of daughters, I don't buy into the "Hillary way" as being the true path and shining light. The fact that a parent is pro-abstinence and the offspring (male or female) strays from the teaching is no surprise or reason to condemn a belief. Kids make mistakes - that's what they do best! I readily admit to being a sinner and not following all of my parent's teachings - in moments of weakness as well as rebellion. That's what offspring tend to do. And whenever that happens, there is usually a price to pay - by the offspring. Anything less condones worse behavior.

For a daughter who finds herself straying from her teachings and now pregnant, it speaks volumes to her character and that of her family to not punish the true innocent - the unborn child - for the transgression. It is especially poignant when the "penance" for the transgression is to carry the child full-term and accept responsibility for the caring and nurturing of the new life, rather than looking at the new life as a cancer, wart or other malignancy. To me, it beats taking the position of sex-for-sex's sake and I'm too important to be inconvenienced by something as trivial as a new life. While people make mistakes, it is refreshing when people take responsibility for the action by not compounding the mistake further due to inconvenience.

This society has become so preoccupied with sex - having it at will, making it a sport, and I'm never responsible for anything. Television has become the cesspool Mr. Minnow feared; movies abound with open sexual acts and gutter-talk (and they call it "art!"); and the kids think t must be right because the so-called adults condone it - and make money off it by the ton.

Sex education in the schools - done because many parents don't seem to want to fulfill parental responsibilities - has done nothing to thwart a rising teen birth rate. If anything, it may be part of the rising problem of kids having kids at younger and younger ages, resulting in more cries for having kids get abortions (sometimes again and again) because adults won't tell kids "no" anymore. Just go by any public junior high school and watch how seventh graders interact - the dress, makeup, competition, need for boy/girlfriends and "steady's," and the other social stresses formerly reserved for 11th and 12th grade. Middle school "proms" and younger-and-younger beauty pageants....where will it end?

No, the I don't have to be responsible for my actions (male or female) and if it feels good, do it and a child now would be so expensive and inconvenient to my career is not a globally-accepted philosophy.

The Dr. Spock stuff hasn't worked, and the free love society has resulted in the most selfish and narcissic generations since the days of Caligula. Personally, I have no problem with people like the so-called old-style conservatives. They at least accept responsibility for their sins, and responsibility has so become a word that "the enlightened" seem to want to remove from Webster's dictionary.

[Guest]

Dancer

I would like you to tell me where I said Obama was a muslim and that if he is elected we wont be able to sing God Bless America. I would hate to call you a liar in front of anyone so I'll give you a chance to apologies , Or show me where I said that. Benj

[Guest]

OK, by the time you read this all the conventions will be over, the impassioned speeches with the zingers directed at the opponent over, the hoarse-throated delegates will all be on their way home...and we'll all be left to consider our voting decision. Oh, there will be extensive negative advertising on both sides because both candidate's handlers seem to think that's an effective way to campaign. Maybe we can find it in our minds to ignore all that crapola.

Earlier I commented that our choice seems to be...another four years like the last eight...or, the possibility of some long-needed action on pressing problems facing our nation.

I still think that's our choice, and it has nothing at all to do with the personalities of the candidates or their chosen VP's, their families, those that they count as their "base", how much money they can raise, the results of the debates...none of that stuff.

If John McCain wins the presidency, there's little chance that anything that he said he will do while campaigning will actually get done. It won't be because he doesn't want to change some things or that he won't try. He'll have to rely on a heavily Democratic Congress and a Republican minority where many members dislike him. He has been a maverick over the years and has not followed the GOP party line. The result is he doesn't have much political capital on either side of the aisle. I believe his presidency would be marked by four more years of polarized and bitter inaction.

Tick off the things he says he will do and ask yourself whether there's even a remote chance that a Democratic Congress with a Republican minority which has much imbedded enmity against him will cooperate. In fact, I think there's a real chance that the Democrats will wind up with a sufficiently large majority in both houses that they will simply go ahead with their list of platform plans, regardless of what a President McCain might ask them to do. Then we could find ourselves in a pass-veto-pass stalemate and bitter feelings all around and total frustration within the electorate.

A President Obama would have the political capital to get just about anything done that he wants. Oh, that would be unless there's an even further intra-party fracture between the far left and centrists among the Democrats. But at least his election would result in the possibility that sorely-needed legislation might be passed to address longstanding problems in our country. The risk we would run with Obama is that the Congress would pass some dumb or even damaging legislation that he might sign into law. But I know he's smart enough and I would hope that there are enough responsible people in the Congress that, combined with the slowness with which the ship of state changes direction, that such risks are avoidable and we could begin to make some progress in this country.

I've concluded that regardless of any other consideration or how I might have voted in the past or how much I know about or like the candidates, there's really only one choice that might result in some change in our country.

[Guest]

Oh my goodness. For all of you who have decided NOT to vote for John & Sarah because of her daughers pregnancy....Get a life!!!!! You must not have kids. As parents we all teach our children what we believe is right...ethically, morally and acceptance in society. However, kids are kids...and they get caught up in situations that we wish they hadn't....early pregancy, drugs, tatoos, piercing. The best thing is that parents have unconditional love and will do anything they can in order to be for their kids, when needed.

Many Mom's work. I have worked full time since my daughters were infants. I have had a wonderful husband who has been a very hands-on Dad as well as supported me in my professional goals. My girls have turned out fine. Oh, by the way, one of our daughers is and adult and has disabilities all of her life. Easy for us...NO WAY, but then again it is worse for her!

S___ happens. Families deal with lots of adversities.

Teenage pregancies are tough and nothing parents would hope for their son or daughter.

Not voting for John & Sarah if fine...but find a better reason than because her daughter is pregnant.

[Guest]

OK, by the time you read this all the conventions will be over, the impassioned speeches with the zingers directed at the opponent over, the hoarse-throated delegates will all be on their way home...and we'll all be left to consider our voting decision. Oh, there will be extensive negative advertising on both sides because both candidate's handlers seem to think that's an effective way to campaign. Maybe we can find it in our minds to ignore all that crapola.

Earlier I commented that our choice seems to be...another four years like the last eight...or, the possibility of some long-needed action on pressing problems facing our nation.

I still think that's our choice, and it has nothing at all to do with the personalities of the candidates or their chosen VP's, their families, those that they count as their "base", how much money they can raise, the results of the debates...none of that stuff.

If John McCain wins the presidency, there's little chance that anything that he said he will do while campaigning will actually get done. It won't be because he doesn't want to change some things or that he won't try. He'll have to rely on a heavily Democratic Congress and a Republican minority where many members dislike him. He has been a maverick over the years and has not followed the GOP party line. The result is he doesn't have much political capital on either side of the aisle. I believe his presidency would be marked by four more years of polarized and bitter inaction.

Tick off the things he says he will do and ask yourself whether there's even a remote chance that a Democratic Congress with a Republican minority which has much imbedded enmity against him will cooperate. In fact, I think there's a real chance that the Democrats will wind up with a sufficiently large majority in both houses that they will simply go ahead with their list of platform plans, regardless of what a President McCain might ask them to do. Then we could find ourselves in a pass-veto-pass stalemate and bitter feelings all around and total frustration within the electorate.

A President Obama would have the political capital to get just about anything done that he wants. Oh, that would be unless there's an even further intra-party fracture between the far left and centrists among the Democrats. But at least his election would result in the possibility that sorely-needed legislation might be passed to address longstanding problems in our country. The risk we would run with Obama is that the Congress would pass some dumb or even damaging legislation that he might sign into law. But I know he's smart enough and I would hope that there are enough responsible people in the Congress that, combined with the slowness with which the ship of state changes direction, that such risks are avoidable and we could begin to make some progress in this country.

I've concluded that regardless of any other consideration or how I might have voted in the past or how much I know about or like the candidates, there's really only one choice that might result in some change in our country.

You bring out some very good points.

There is always a risk of dumb laws, especially when one party controls the Congress and the Executive Branch. That has been a major complaint of the Democratic party during the first years of the current administration, and a viable one. The "absolute power corrupts absolutely" concept comes as close as it can under our Constitution when one party controls the Congress and the Executive Branch, and we need to ask ourselves if we want that situation again. If we don't, then there has to be flexibility in voting - balancing one's congressional versus presidential ballot choices.

I like the idea of needing that super-majority to enact a new law. It would at least mean that the country, rather than the party or any other special interest, gains.

Passing more laws first starts with the Congress, and the laws by themselves are often worthless. Each year a number of laws are enacted without the requisite funding to make them effective. No funding tied to the law, the law isn't enforced - it really is that simple.

What would be refreshing would be to have no more new laws, and we start enforcing or enacting what's already on the books.

[Guest]

Dancer I see your back on totv,



I'M WAITING FOR MY APOLOGY, PUT UP OR SHUT UP. YOU HAVE LIED ABOUT ME NOW BE WOMEN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT.

I'M WAITING Benj

[Guest]

Oh my goodness. For all of you who have decided NOT to vote for John & Sarah because of her daughers pregnancy....Get a life!!!!! You must not have kids. As parents we all teach our children what we believe is right...ethically, morally and acceptance in society. However, kids are kids...and they get caught up in situations that we wish they hadn't....early pregancy, drugs, tatoos, piercing. The best thing is that parents have unconditional love and will do anything they can in order to be for their kids, when needed.

Many Mom's work. I have worked full time since my daughters were infants. I have had a wonderful husband who has been a very hands-on Dad as well as supported me in my professional goals. My girls have turned out fine. Oh, by the way, one of our daughers is and adult and has disabilities all of her life. Easy for us...NO WAY, but then again it is worse for her!

S___ happens. Families deal with lots of adversities.

Teenage pregancies are tough and nothing parents would hope for their son or daughter.

Not voting for John & Sarah if fine...but find a better reason than because her daughter is pregnant.


Just so you know where I stand. My not voting for the McCain/Palin ticket has nothing to do with her daughter or any personal matter. I am not voting for them because I simply do not believe in their politics. I didn't like John McCain's stands and Sarah Palin's are even more conservative. I just find it a bad ticket. I don't like anything that either of them stand for. Period. It's that simple.

[Guest]

"Change" "I don't like" etc etc are such empty words. Please tell me specifically what it is you don't agree with in regards to John and Sarah. What has Sarah P done in office that you don't like? Tell me please be specific!
Can you??
Handie :joke:

[Guest]

KAHUANA.....what positive changes do you anticipate if Sen Obama is elected ? Universal healthcare ? A variation of his Global Poverty Act ?

I assume you have read about his training in Chicago to be an organizer, his allegiance to the training of Sal Alinsky, and how that job was done (tell them how bad they had it, and appeal to their selfish interests) and his connections to other radicals in that area. He is the hero of the radical left wing...he is the answer to all they want.

I understand the feeling about Sen McCain, but I cannot believe this country is ready for a radical left wing President and a liberal congress.

I am NOT saying one word about Sen Obama's character, but he IS EXTREME in his idealogy for sure.

What is it that you think Sen Obama will give you.

[Guest]

I've concluded that regardless of any other consideration or how I might have voted in the past or how much I know about or like the candidates, there's really only one choice that might result in some change in our country.


Change can be a great thing if the change that occurs is for the better. However, to just vote for change for change sake, one would have to take the position that all aspects of life are bad and any change that occurs would be for the better.

Where I personally am most concerned about bad change is Obama's views on terrorism. Any fair analysis of the Bush presidency would have to include that he has been effective in keeping us attack free after 9/11. On 9/12/01, how many people would have thought that 7 years later there would have been no al Qarda attacks against our homeland? This did not occur by accident. Obama is on record saying that the appropriate means to address terrorism is the one used by the Clinton administration - the same method that culminated in 9/11. If this is the type of change that we can expect from an Obama administration, I want nothing to do with it.

If I were a Democrat, I would also want nothing to do with it - for two reasons. First, another attack will obviously result in more deaths, and if they can meet their objective, the death toll would be orders of magnitude greater than 9/11. Secondly, such an attack, if shown to be facilitated by changes to Bush policies, would be the death nell of the Democratic Party. It would take decades before the American public would again trust the Democrats with national security.

[Guest]

NJBLUE...I read a book a few years ago by David Kaplan chronicling the work of a terrorist group in Japan where they succesfully gassed the subway. In this book, it is shown how easy it could be and how groups are daily searching to get a nuclear device. If this group had a few more dollars that was their goal.

I know that we should not live in fear and I dont...however your point about terrorism which seems to be "pooh poohed" by the left, is very valid. These are people who have said over and over they want to kill us, and not matter how long it takes they will.

THIS IS AN ISSUE and a very important issue in my mind. I am not a fear monger but a realist.

[Guest]

Your message forced me to reply.

Sarah Palin is no different than most women who believe in family. It is a balancing act that we women do every day. The ability to multi-task, meticulous planning and total responsibility to job is what we all do. Actually, she is refreshing and certainly women everywhere can relate to this. Give her credit that she is committed to what ever job she is given, she will put everything into it. She will definately be a fabulous president!

[Guest]

Ummmmm...President???

[Guest]

Ummmmm...President???

The norm is for the incumbent VP to get the party nomination when the incumbent President no longer can or desires to run for re-election. VP Cheney is the first incumbent VP that I can quickly remember not to seek the Presidential nomination.

[Guest]

The RNC party is notorious for fear mongering. I am a realist also. Sadly, I believe there will be an attack or attempted attack no matter who the next President is. I, for one, did not expect an attack before 7 to 9 years after 2001. 1993 was the last attack on American soil. These people (terrorists) are not as clever or as organized as people give them credit for. So, sorry, I can't credit Bush with keeping us safe. Have you been to our airports? The security is a joke. Although some US airports are better than others. Bush did not only NOT keep us any safer, his war in Iraq made us more hated and consequently more unsafe. McCain voted for this war, voted for the surge (the fact that it's working is another bit of misinformation) and I will guarantee you he will step it up and take us into a war with Iran. Now that's something you should fear.

As I stated I don't talk politics socially. But I have said to my husband (who did vote for Bush twice!) consider your vote wisely. If you vote Republican again, I don't want to hear any whining about the Economy, how bad your stocks are doing, etc. Nothing! Because you will be voting in 4 more years of the same.

McCain's "maverick" days are over. He's long sold out by voting with Bush 90% of the time.
Palin's resume is weedy, a 20 month Gov. that is under indictment in her own state, population 80 people per square mile. Ex-Mayor of a town of 8,000 that left the budget in tatters.

I prefer a President that uses diplomacy plus force. This is what Senator Obama will bring. McCain does not have the temperament or policies to be President. Much less Palin.

And by the way, has the RNC yet come up with an original idea or are they going to parrot the dems for the next 2 mos. My goodness, hasn't "change" suddenly become in vogue. That's not what the RNC was offering from the beginning. And in fact, by adopting or should I say stealing, this slogan, they are dissing their own party. Duh? :dontknow:

[Guest]

(the fact that it's working is another bit of misinformation)
__________________________________________________ _______
I know you will be disappointed but I cannot stay but wanted to point out to you that Sen Obama disagrees with your comment on the surge :)

[Guest]

OBAMA: ...."There is no doubt that the violence is down and that is a testament to the troops that were sent and General Patraeus and Ambassador Crocker. I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated, by the way, including President Bush and the other supporters...."

[Guest]

Bucco you are correct on this. But it's not going to bring us victory. Nothing is. McCain is blowing smoke on this subject. I think the old days of "the bad guys lose and we win" are over. That is why I want and this country so desperately needs a President that will use diplomacy as well as force.

[Guest]

The DNC is notorious for fear mongering.
Spin it as you like, but only a Bush hater would not give Bush credit for keeping us safe for the last 7 years. I wonder what you would say if there had been an attack on us.
Obama didn't vote for the war because he didn't have to. If he could have he would have voted PRESENT.
You can't even admit that the surge has been a overwhelming success. Thats big of you. You must have blinders on.
Obamas ideas for the economy are good?, You have to be kidding.
I HOPE McCain Palin keep on the CHANGE idea then we can see what kind of CHANGE the voters want. Benj

[Guest]

Benj, I find nothing, NOTHING, overwhelming about The Republican Party. Let's just agree to disagree. Have a good day.

[Guest]

The RNC party is notorious for fear mongering. I am a realist also. Sadly, I believe there will be an attack or attempted attack no matter who the next President is. I, for one, did not expect an attack before 7 to 9 years after 2001. 1993 was the last attack on American soil. These people (terrorists) are not as clever or as organized as people give them credit for. So, sorry, I can't credit Bush with keeping us safe. Have you been to our airports? The security is a joke. Although some US airports are better than others. Bush did not only NOT keep us any safer, his war in Iraq made us more hated and consequently more unsafe. McCain voted for this war, voted for the surge (the fact that it's working is another bit of misinformation) and I will guarantee you he will step it up and take us into a war with Iran. Now that's something you should fear.


The reason there has been no attacks is the hard work and dedication of many people in the intellligence and operations communities, almost all of whose activities are invisible to the general public for what should be obvious security reasons. They are the reason most of the nation sleep at night in relative peace and tranquility, and their capacity to do their jobs has more than tripled in the last 7 years, compared to the 5 years previous.

The security threat and providing effective security against the threat is like an iceberg - the average person only sees that one/eleventh of it that is above the waterline. The airport security is a prime example, as most people never see what happens outside of the public's view or how all of the information comes together (threat and protection). I often joke about the passenger security line at the airport, but what goes on around it - outside of the passenger's notice - is very impressive.

The current administration HAS dramatically improved the security posture of this nation, and to me "current administration" is everyone from the top-down involved in the intelligence and operations business. The fact that is goes on pretty much unnoticed (and unappreciated by many) is testimonial to how good it has become.

[Guest]

I adamantly disagree for reasons I've stated. As as for the airports! The last time I was at O'Hare, my husband walked through security with five, 5, lighters in his pocket. He didn't do it on purpose, he forgot they were there. I was amazed.

[Guest]

Benj, I find nothing, NOTHING, overwhelming about The Republican Party. Let's just agree to disagree. Have a good day.
\


Gee chelsea what a shock. Benj

[Guest]

Steve, I've been around the block a few times and to a couple of county fairs so I understand how the systems works. They have to win first, though. The comment made (as written) was "She will definately be a fabulous president!"




The norm is for the incumbent VP to get the party nomination when the incumbent President no longer can or desires to run for re-election. VP Cheney is the first incumbent VP that I can quickly remember not to seek the Presidential nomination.

[Guest]

I adamantly disagree for reasons I've stated. As as for the airports! The last time I was at O'Hare, my husband walked through security with five, 5, lighters in his pocket. He didn't do it on purpose, he forgot they were there. I was amazed.




Chels: If you read the Chicago papers as I do, you will see that more people were murdered in Chicago the last few months than deaths in Iraq. That should tell you something :dontknow: :dontknow:

[Guest]

For anyone to say that John McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time is just not in tune with the facts. Even the liberal Washington Post pointed out that Obama was not very accurate when using that number. If you don't count the unanimous votes in the Senate (votes in which every member of the Senate voted for...for naming post offices, bridges, etc, etc) then his percentage is like 45% in support of Bush.

[Guest]

People getting on planes with 5 lighters is the least of our worries. If that is the extent of a security lapse, I feel pretty good. The real concern is something FAR bigger than that and it's not just fear mongering Republicans making this claim. Even Harvard researchers and former Clinton administration members concur that the risk is great:

In "Nuclear Terrorism: The Ultimate Preventable Catastrophe," published in 2004, I present the evidence for the proposition that on the current trajectory, a successful terrorist nuclear attack devastating one of the great cities of the world is inevitable. I offer my own considered judgment that if all the governments stay on autopilot, doing no more and no less than they are doing today, a nuclear 9/11 is more likely than not within a decade — that is, by 2014.

Richard Garwin, a designer of the hydrogen bomb, was called by Nobel laureate Enrico Fermi "the only true genius I had ever met." Testifying to Congress in March 2007, Mr. Garwin estimated a "20 percent per year probability of a nuclear explosion with American cities and European cities included."

My Harvard colleague, Matthew Bunn, created a model that estimates the probability of a terrorist nuclear attack over a 10-year period to be 29 percent — identical to the average estimate from a poll of security experts commissioned by Sen. Richard G. Lugar, Indiana Republican, in 2005.

Former Defense Secretary William J. Perry has expressed that my work underestimates the risk.
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/18230/nuclear_attack_a_worstcase_reality.html

[Guest]

As I stated, which clearly was NOT read, sadly I believe there will be an attack no matter who is President. And I, personally do not want McCain's finger near any button. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

To the comment I made: she will make a fabulous president.

I believe that when McCain is elected, he will not serve a second term. Sarah will then have the ability to run for president and will win. She is a breath of sunshine and we need her to be vp the next 4 years. She is a quick learner, has executive experience as gov. (her opponent not) and will make changes happen.
Watch Hillary move in 4 years to make the run against Sarah. Now that will be one fantastic election experience! We need a woman in that office!!!

[Guest]

To the comment I made: she will make a fabulous president.

I believe that when McCain is elected, he will not serve a second term. Sarah will then have the ability to run for president and will win. She is a breath of sunshine and we need her to be vp the next 4 years. She is a quick learner, has executive experience as gov. (her opponent not) and will make changes happen.
Watch Hillary move in 4 years to make the run against Sarah. Now that will be one fantastic election experience! We need a woman in that office!!!


You're kidding right? Palin is a quick learner. Gosh, now where did I hear that these are not positions for "on the job training." hmmmm, now let me see. Oh yes, it was from McCain's mouth. :o

[Guest]

My granddaughter who started College today at OHIO UNIVERSITY in Journalism learned this truth in high school Journalism. A newspaper always has a political slant. Be it Scripps Howard, Gannett, The New York Times, The Washington Post, you are going to read the political opinions of the owners. Fact of life.


GG, that's sad. That is not the way I was taught when I received my Journalism Degree from Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. I guess things have changed. :dontknow: I wish your granddaughter Good Luck in this ever changing world. It is an exciting time to be young, yes? chels

[Guest]

It's the Presidency where we cant afford on the job training. There isn't a better place for Sarah to learn than next to McCain. Benj

[Guest]

GG, that's sad. That is not the way I was taught when I received my Journalism Degree from Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. I guess things have changed. :dontknow: I wish your granddaughter Good Luck in this ever changing world. It is an exciting time to be young, yes? chels


I might have known you had a degree in Journalism. You were taught differently? In high school we were given all of the big time magazines and newspaper and were asked what their political slant was. I think most are the same as when I went to school.(The political slant that is) She was taught in high school NOT to have a political slant as a journalist. Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

[Guest]

Yes, it was pounded into us that Journalists were to be complete unbiased. We were not the story. Guess that always stuck with me. Just the who, what, when, where, and whys. I'm not saying I think it is that way today at all. I honestly can't name one.

Do I still get my coffee and cookies?????? ;D

[Guest]

1rnfl OK, I'm sorry but I just received this and have to share it. Take it with the humor that's intended.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184086

[Guest]

Oh yeah chels, that was humorous....like the black plague is humorous. The puppetmaster is shown for what he is..a master at doublespeak, Billo has always been a buffoon and wishes he he could be a master of something...maybe an exterminating company? The whole clip was humorous in showing these people struck by their own petard. Every voter in America should see this clip. What a bunch of self serving nothus homos.

[Guest]

Benj....you got it!!!! Glad someone else sees my vision.

[Guest]

CHELSEA....Since you have a journalism degree, it will surprise you that I want your opinion.....as unbiased as possible :)

I have criticized a number of times..on here and others.....the 24 news channels for their totally biased commentary and even reporting. If you want the right view point go to Fox...if you want the left go to MSNBC, but for me, one who did not study journalism except from a "hard knocks" situation, it seems so difficult to get FACTS any more. The net has become a zoo with websites that would support you if you supported Alf for President.

Your thoughts please !

[Guest]

CHELSEA....Since you have a journalism degree, it will surprise you that I want your opinion.....as unbiased as possible :)

I have criticized a number of times..on here and others.....the 24 news channels for their totally biased commentary and even reporting. If you want the right view point go to Fox...if you want the left go to MSNBC, but for me, one who did not study journalism except from a "hard knocks" situation, it seems so difficult to get FACTS any more. The net has become a zoo with websites that would support you if you supported Alf for President.

Your thoughts please !



You and I are in complete agreement on this Bucco. It serves to be convenient for each of our arguments, but it is such a disservice to our country in general. I can't remember when the news started to be so biased. It saddens me a great deal. I remember being a young girl and my Dad watching the news and saying "Oh, that anchorman won't comment on anything. He can't. He's a journalist!" Maybe that stuck in my head when I went on to get my degree.

The unfortunate thing is that I can't see a road back from here. This was part of my great love for Tim Russett on Meet The Press. I believe he stayed about as fair as you can get. I honestly don't get that same feeling from Tom Brokaw.

There is always something people can find to agree on if they search hard enough. This we most definitely agree on. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

WOW...we totally agree ! I get so irritated when folks on BOTH SIDES post here and other locations I visit something from the web that is out of context and sometimes words changed from quotes.....and people accept that crap !

I am old enough that all the news was on the radio or newspapers when I was young....I recall my first newsman...John Cameron Swayze and I would challenge anyone anywhere to try and figure out how he leaned politically.

This, I believe along with the idiots we send to Washington is what makes politics such total crap today. The entire nation listens to SPIN and from that is making decisions and that is not right. The parties, BOTH OF THEM, are experts at spin and the acrimonious attitude of those we elect plays right into this scenario.

I subscribe to both sides of the aisle the extreme left and the extreme right, and when I read what they put out versus what I have found to be fact...it would be real funny if it were not so sad !

Gee...I haven't thought of John Cameron Swayze in some time...he used to smoke a Camel cigarette while delivering the news :)

[Guest]

Yes! I remember him. Didn't also do the Timex commercials? Wow, that does bring back good memories. :bigthumbsup:

[Guest]

How about C-SPAN for a balanced point-of-view?

As an example, this morning I clicked on to find a fellow doing a comparison of the Obama and McCain tax proposals. I was surprised at his analysis showing that both proposals result in a meaningful reduction in taxes paid by "most" Americans. In Obama's proposal, 94% of taxpayers would get a 5% reduction. In the McCain proposal, 100% of taxpayers would get a 3% reduction. Of course, in the Obama proposal, Americans within the top 4% of income-earners would get their maximum tax rate increased to he same level as was in place at the end of the Reagan administration--39%.

Listening to the spin by both candidates, you would never never be able to discern these results.

[Guest]

KAHUANA...yeah CSPAN does a nice job and is one of my "stops" each day.

By the way, my concern about Sen Obama is NOT with tax decreases.....it is with his spending which will negate any postives out of what he is saying. I know....I know...he aint goin to spend that much....ok.....you can accept that if you wish but just run a tab on what he wants, and what he is not saying except in generalities. I cannot recall the tab JUST FOR ONE BILL HE HAS PROPOSED, but it is large...the Global Poverty Act where he proposes we feed the world and reallocate the resources of the world.

[Guest]

Spending under a Congress and White House controlled by one party is a definite risk, Bucco. But I would find it difficult to believe that uncontrolled spending could be any worse than during the last eight years. I won't even bother to begin to recite examples.

I would be very inclined to support the candidate that pledged to reinstate PayGo and veto any spending bill that would result in any further increase in the federal deficit. McCain came closest to saying this in his acceptance speech. But he only said that he would let the public know which members of Congress were responsible for offensive spending amendments or earmarks. But he parsed his words carefully to not commit to actually veto'ing such legislation. Drat!

[Guest]

EVERYTHING you say is correct KAHUANA.

You know how I feel about Sen Obama's background and training and his aspirations to feed and take care of everyone. My suspicion is that if he is elected with a Democratic congress we will be hearing a lot of "I know its a lot of money but we must do this because it is right"....he will bring smiles to the ACLU, etc.

Hoping he does not try to get the dollars from our military as he actually has hinted at...that scenario just plain petrifies me (CHELSEA24 thinks I need help with that) ...it is a perfect storm for monetary as well as physical disaster !

[Guest]

Talk about spending, I think it is obscene that Cindy McCain spent $300,000. on her outfit for the last night. With the state of the economy that is a little out of touch.

[Guest]

I honestly don't agree with anything the McCain's do. Out of touch with the middleclass? Yes. But, I really don't care what she spent on her outfit. Heck, I'm not going to lie, I'd love to have an outfit like that. (And look as good as she did in it!) Back in my old neighborhood we'd call her a "hood orniment." Cindy's a non-issue to me. But I do love the spirit and feistiness of Michelle Obama.

[Guest]

Another hollow rumor, how tacky.
And even if true It's her money.
I wonder what Kerry's wife spent on her outfit?. Like it's anybodys business. Benj

[Guest]

Talk about spending, I think it is obscene that Cindy McCain spent $300,000. on her outfit for the last night. With the state of the economy that is a little out of touch.
__________________________________________________ ___

Could you supply your source for this information ...thanks

[Guest]

But I do love the spirit and feistiness of Michelle Obama.
__________________________________________________ _--

Hey did you know she quoted Saul Alinsky in her speech the other night ?

[Guest]

SHIGHSMI....for the record, Vanity Fair reports the dress cost $3000 NOT $300000...THEe entire outfit including jewelry,etc has a tag of somewhere near your number...Michelle Obama spent almost 2000 on her dress...no word on the stuff that goes with it.

Hey...both are millionaires..ok

[Guest]

Wow....I am just amazed my people's thinking...so what if she went back to work 3 days after birth....you did not mention if her husband did as well. I was so disappointed that Sara did not just follow her daughter around 24/7 to make sure you made the right decisons. how about giving credit to her and the family...she is accepting responsability, so unlike other kids!!!! All we can do is just that...teach our kids to be responsible for their actions, kids are going to do what they want, the key is being taught to prepare for the actions. Seems to me, they are done well teaching their kids that!!! Said alot to me

What does the VP do, please name something Dick has done in the 4 years, I hardly saw him myself, her point was done well. He has done nothing....hence...its time to clean up that type of behavior,. we deserve more for what we pay him, I think her comment was great......I am open to listen....name some exact things he has done for the people

[Guest]

Sorry, but they did a breakdown on that particular outfit, including jewelry and it did come to approximately $300,000. Let's be fair about this.

See the breakdown:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2008/09/04/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html

[Guest]

Talk about spending, I think it is obscene that Cindy McCain spent $300,000. on her outfit for the last night. With the state of the economy that is a little out of touch.
__________________________________________________ ___

Could you supply your source for this information ...thanks


Just an FYI -- here's the source of the $300,000 outfit.

Again, this should be a non-issue. She has the money. She has the right to spend her money as she sees fit so long as it is not to harm another. It ain't none of our bizwhacks!

[Guest]

It was on Television tonight. Reported yhe price . I still think it outlandish. Out of touch.

[Guest]

It was on Television tonight. Reported yhe price . I still think it outlandish. Out of touch.
__________________________________________________ ______________--

Didnt see the report but I am sure of two things without even asking...

..../.the DRESS price was NOT $300,000 as reported on here...

/......They did NOT report the cost of Michelle Obama's dress

[Guest]

Wow....I am just amazed my people's thinking...so what if she went back to work 3 days after birth....you did not mention if her husband did as well. I was so disappointed that Sara did not just follow her daughter around 24/7 to make sure you made the right decisons. how about giving credit to her and the family...she is accepting responsability, so unlike other kids!!!! All we can do is just that...teach our kids to be responsible for their actions, kids are going to do what they want, the key is being taught to prepare for the actions. Seems to me, they are done well teaching their kids that!!! Said alot to me

What does the VP do, please name something Dick has done in the 4 years, I hardly saw him myself, her point was done well. He has done nothing....hence...its time to clean up that type of behavior,. we deserve more for what we pay him, I think her comment was great......I am open to listen....name some exact things he has done for the people


The next time you pay your bills, think of Dick Cheney. The next time you buy gas, think of Dick Cheney. The next time you hear of one of our young people being killed in Iraq, think of Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney and George W. Bush were chained at the hip. But, they left enough room for John McCain. Whether you believe it or not, you cannot afford 4 more years of the same.

[Guest]

Bucco, I answered your question previously. Not please answer mine. Can you ever admit you're wrong? The OUTFIT costs close to $300,000. End of story. It's a fact. Geesh!

[Guest]

The next time you pay your bills, think of Dick Cheney. The next time you buy gas, think of Dick Cheney. The next time you hear of one of our young people being killed in Iraq, think of Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney and George W. Bush were chained at the hip. But, they left enough room for John McCain. Whether you believe it or not, you cannot afford 4 more years of the same.
__________________________________________________ ________-

CHELSEA...I honestly can understand some of what you say and think here. I do not think Dick Cheney raised my bills in any way,nor do I think he had anything to do with the price of gas but I can actually understand a lot of what you feel.

Where we stand divided is that I do not believe Sen McCain is as close to the Bush WH as you think, and more especially it is no excuse to put a radical left winger in the WH. As I said to you before.....had the Democratic party done a better job with a nominee I would join you this November.

[Guest]

Actually, the price of at least one of dresses Michelle Obama wore at the DNC was mentioned -- $138.00. Of course, there was no mention of the price of her jewelry, etc., but I think it would be safe to assume it was not an ostentatious display.

Going back to the subject matter of this thread, comparing what Cheney has done in the past 4 years to what Palin might do is comparing apples and oranges. The Vice President's role in an administration really is decided by the President. Some VPs are very active in national and international affairs. Cheney has met with several foreign dignataries, both here and abroad. Some VPs are so far removed from the office of the President that they may as well be a minor staffer. Some VPs sit in on every or almost every cabinet meeting; some are not even informed when they are to occur. So, what Cheney has or has not done is irrelevant. What is relevant is: what role does McCain see for Palin if he wins?

[Guest]

Actually, the price of at least one of dresses Michelle Obama wore at the DNC was mentioned -- $138.00. Of course, there was no mention of the price of her jewelry, etc., but I think it would be safe to assume it was not an ostentatious display.

Going back to the subject matter of this thread, comparing what Cheney has done in the past 4 years to what Palin might do is comparing apples and oranges. The Vice President's role in an administration really is decided by the President. Some VPs are very active in national and international affairs. Cheney has met with several foreign dignataries, both here and abroad. Some VPs are so far removed from the office of the President that they may as well be a minor staffer. Some VPs sit in on every or almost every cabinet meeting; some are not even informed when they are to occur. So, what Cheney has or has not done is irrelevant. What is relevant is: what role does McCain see for Palin if he wins?
__________________________________________________ ___________________-

Ok REDWITCH...just for the sake of accuracy. The dress you allude to that Michelle Obama wore at the price you quote was during her appearance on the View, and SHE BROUGHT UP THE PRICE (no reason I suppose). Her dress at the DNC....just under $2000 !
I cant believe I am even disucssing this but as with the other claims I have seen on here..it is only fair to keep it accurate (like McCain wants the war togo on for 100 years....the RNC is the ONLY group to do negative advertising, etc).

To your second point...I would ask the same of Sen Obama..what role will Sen Biden play ? I really am not that tuned into that right now, but if the question is asked of one it should be asked of both !

Cannot believe I got involved in a discussion on the price of a dress from TWO millionaires :)

[Guest]

I agree that the cost of Cindy McCain's COMPLETE OUTFIT (Not just dress) is a silly subject. But it did cost $300,000. BUCCO! Here's the link of the breakdown. Can you ever ever admit you're wrong?

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2008/09/04/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html

[Guest]

I agree that the cost of Cindy McCain's COMPLETE OUTFIT (Not just dress) is a silly subject. But it did cost $300,000. BUCCO! Here's the link of the breakdown. Can you ever ever admit you're wrong?

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2008/09/04/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html
__________________________________________________ _----

I admit I am wrong about 100 times a day !

Now, you have to begin to read the entire thread.....I said at 9:21 PM last night

"SHIGHSMI....for the record, Vanity Fair reports the dress cost $3000 NOT $300000...THEe entire outfit including jewelry,etc has a tag of somewhere near your number...Michelle Obama spent almost 2000 on her dress...no word on the stuff that goes with it.

Hey...both are millionaires..ok"

THAT SORT OF AGREES with the thread just wanted to make sure it was accurate...I never ever ever once said that it did NOT...NEVER..since I posted that, you have called me on this at least twice for NO REASON. I agreed with the price as you see at 9:21...you called me on it at 9:59 and then again this morning. I ignored last night but why are you beating me up on something I have agreed on a long time ago..so many other things !

[Guest]

I agree that the cost of Cindy McCain's COMPLETE OUTFIT (Not just dress) is a silly subject. But it did cost $300,000. BUCCO! Here's the link of the breakdown. Can you ever ever admit you're wrong?

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2008/09/04/cindy-mccains-300000-outfit.html


According to that article, $280,000 of that $300,000 was for jewelry. Not sure why that is relevant to anything though. Hope she had some good bodyguards.

[Guest]

Hahahahaha Bucco! OK, let's both take a chill pill. The day is young and we're not! ;D

[Guest]

Not sure where to post this and I really am not sure how I feel about it...was tempted to post it in the thread about Gov Palin and the library, but nah....

Oprah Winfrey....she decided against her staff's wishes not to invite Gov Palin on her show...said she will have no candidates on until after the election although she has had both the Sen and his wife from Illinois on previously !

Just found it interesting !

[Guest]

Bucco, agree with you 100% -- Obama should answer what Biden's role will be in his Presidency. I didn't say it for the simple reason we were discussing Palin, not Biden.

As to the cost of the outfits, again, a non-issue. These women can afford these dresses and jewelry, so what possible difference should it make to a voter if they wore $3,000 or $138 dresses anywhere. (Personally, I thought Cindy's dress was hideous -- at least the color -- but not everyone has Jackie's taste.) Not. our. business.

[Guest]

I also think Palin is in the deep end of the pool and has not learned to swim.
I think every part of a persons life is open for discussion in this high level run
Palin shows heart but also is very shallow for a VP postion.

[Guest]

Funny thing, now we are worried about how much an outfit cost.. The VP's Role is a know deal. On either side. What about Palin wanting the extra power in the senate that she somehow thinks should be hers. And better yet thinks the Constitution grants this????? I guess she wants to out do DC? Or better yet should we expect the following if they win and she is VP?
A violation is a Violation. Dont matter who you are..

FINDING NUBMER ONE:

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.

[Guest]

Not sure where to post this and I really am not sure how I feel about it...was tempted to post it in the thread about Gov Palin and the library, but nah....

Oprah Winfrey....she decided against her staff's wishes not to invite Gov Palin on her show...said she will have no candidates on until after the election although she has had both the Sen and his wife from Illinois on previously !

Just found it interesting !

Oprah came out to support Obama right away. It's her show, she's made the billions. She has the right to have on or not have on anyone she wants to. I don't know where you got the staff wanted her. I'm very close with one of the producers and I find that highly unlikely. But I doubt if Palin would do it anyway. When Oprah really wants to dig into a person she does. I would love to see Palin on Oprah or The View. She wouldn't stand a chance. (Well maybe with that twit Elizabeth.)
But everyone kind of ignores her anyway. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

Don't think for one minute that the great Obama took the high road for non other than personal reasons.
He cant mock a women who is giving birth at 17 and unwed because of his mother.
He doesn't want family brought up because of his brother who lives on $2 a week but yet has the audacity to say "I am my brothers keeper" at the DNC. ::)
He doesn't want anyone digging into the lives of a 17 year old. He himself got drunk many times and smoked lots of weed when he was 17 (this was published in HIS own book).

So there's the big secret on why the great Obama took the so called "High Road" ::)




Please....give us a break!!! What about McCain's drinking!!! What matters are the issues TODAY!!! Let's talk ISSUES...not about either candidates' past. We are in the worst mess ever. FOCUS on the issues and let's get the candidates to take a stand. We don't want to see any more negative ads from either candidate. I live in PA and just about every commercial break is a political ad! How would you like to be bombarded day in and day out like we are!

[Guest]

please....give us a break!!! What about mccain's drinking!!! What matters are the issues today!!! Let's talk issues...not about either candidates' past. We are in the worst mess ever. Focus on the issues and let's get the candidates to take a stand. We don't want to see any more negative ads from either candidate. I live in pa and just about every commercial break is a political ad! How would you like to be bombarded day in and day out like we are!

couldnt agree with you more!!!!! See how the debate goes..

[Guest]

on either side and this forum about who did what wrong....or who is less wrong or righter than another.....especially given the high percentage of politicians, who steal, cheat whore around, have low or no ethics, do nothing that doesn't have gain for them or their special interest groups and on and on and on.....

abuse of power? How refreshing!!!! It means some one chose to do something.
It is one :cus: of a lot better than the play it safe/do nothing trash ethics politicians who are not only in office but some how manage to get re elected.

Use the same Palin type microscope....fly specks in the pepper analysis of the Congressional, Senatorial (State and Federal), Gubernatorial, Mayoral et al incumbents. There certainly is much, much more concern harbored in these offices that are significantly more deserving of partisan ire.

Abuse of power....thank goodness there are some with the character to at least do something!!!!!!

I won't say we have a double standard, that would infer there are some and we know that certainly is not the case.

What a pity!

BTK

[Guest]

I previously said I would not post in The Political Forum while the campaign was on, yet I did post in the Femme Forum to a question that was posed. Sarah Palin and Motherhood. My response was pulled. So, I'll try it here and see if it stays up.

This is the way I see it. Agree or disagree, again, this is the way I see it. Sarah Palin left to go back to work 3 days after giving birth to a boy with Down Syndrome. Then, even though he is now only 4 months old, she decided to take on this campaign. Do I call that great mothering? No, not in my opinion. Today, they announce that her 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant. It happens, I get it. Yet, it all seems just fine to her because her daughter is going to have the baby and marry the father. :dontknow: Just another teen pregnancy. Senator Obama took the high road and said "leave families out of it."

OK, so let's talk about the fact that she was the Mayor of a town of only 7,000 people. And it has been stated, that she left that budget in tatters. Now she is the Governor of Alaska, a population of about 700,000 people, or 1/3 or the city of Chicago, or about 80 people per square mile. This is the person chosen to step in if something happens to the President. As Bill Mahr said, "when she gets a call at 3am it's because a moose has kicked over a garbage can. She is also under investigation in Alaska. Is McCain kidding? It's not funny.

Please don't give the argument that this is only a VP. 3 weeks ago, Sarah Palin did not even know what a VP did. Her own words. This particular VP slot is important as this is a 72 year old man that has had 4 bouts of cancer.

I think this is the lowest form of pandering and insulting to all women. If he thinks he's going to get the Hillary voters with Sarah Palin, that's a joke. Sarah Palin stands for everything Hillary Clinton has fought against all of her career. It won't wash.

McCain's choice speaks volumes about his judgement. Only meeting this woman one time, for 15 minutes, he decided she could run our country. He is so busy trying to be a maverick, he made an impulsive, and in my opinion, disastrous choice. This is not the kind of choices I want from the President, a man with his finger on the button. No thanks to the McCain/Palin ticket. You know, just when I think it can't get any worse, it does. We can't afford 4 more years of the same, whether you want to believe that or not. IMHO.
It's actually not 4 more years of the same -- it's worse!

People are complaining about picking on Obama after what they did to Ms. Palin. I'm glad I wasn't posting on this forum last September!!!barf

[Guest]

I have posted in another thread about baiting and bashing. This is an example.
Pulling up a thread posted almost a year ago and using to bait with a
left-handed bash is unacceptable.

Please don't do it.

[Guest]

Of course your right. I ended up on this during a search for airports. DUH. I can't wait to get home and have my own computer.

[Guest]

pssssst, Keedy, come over here right now and listen to Boomer, er Miss Kitty, er Boomer....ohhhh, I know, I have truly gone mad....

But anyway, OK. Now, please listen. First of all, check that six-shooter right up here behind the bar while you are in here.

It will be better to just get over last fall. It's here. It's now. And lots of issues can be discussed as issues. Just issues. That's what real discussion is about. Issues.

We live in a world of information overload. A world from which it seems like the links are never missing anymore. And we could literally paper the board with a link war. That would be easy to do.

Of course, a link sometimes can be quite a good thing. But too many links as thread starts look to me like a leaflet drop like I said the other night when I was explaining some stuff from my angle. We could fling Huffington out there and follow it with Beck and on and on it could go and go. And what would be the point?

There are some really good links in cyberspace. (like the ones I use, of course. ;) -- just kidding. I think we have finally progressed to the stage where we can laugh.) But considering our sources and how they support our own opinions with facts is a really good way to use links. Links can be great starting points. But there are so many out there in cyberspace. There are those in political who make excellent use of links, sharing information on which they comment. And yeah those links can be a little slanted sometimes, but not inflammatory links for the sake of venting.

Also, Mr. Tony, Mr. Admin, Sir, made a really good point the other day about removing the political opinions that are being dragged around the whole board in the signature line. (I have seen them, too.)

Keedy, when I signed on here in November 2007, I had watched for a while. And then I joined. And then I started to post. And then it became part of my routine. And I could not seem to shut up. To this day, it remains my only board. I have watched it grow from a lame little operation with a short column over to the side where a post might appear every half hour if we were lucky. And then it started to grow. And we had information and fun everywhere.

The separate forums began to appear and Political was one of them And it went along with some back and forth that could get maybe a little hot from time to time, during the election, but really no big deal. Still OK.

But at some point fairly recently, things got cranked up to a level that was not like the board I had known for so long. The slant to the right had gone up another notch. And the posts in Political seemed to be dominated by repeated phrases that had been gleaned from the right wing media din.

We have a few remaining in Political who will truly discuss issues as issues. But we also lost some good ones along the way when they just gave up because of the onslaught of all the stuff of the hatred of Obama that permeates parts of the media now. (And trust me, I am sure not defending the far left media. They can get nasty, too.)

Keedy, I am worried about our country, just like you are. And so many others. And I have found that political discussions in real life, also, are becoming so angry sometimes. These are difficult times. And sometimes I think I am living in an Orwell book.

I saw someone compare TOTV to a newspaper somewhere along the line. And sadly, we all know that now newspapers almost all have their slants. And when I saw the cranking up that was happening here on TOTV, I considered just logging off forever. I thought I was seeing TOTV turn into a political rag (or maybe rage) on some days and a real snoozeroonie on others.

And then the lid blew late last week.

And now I think I see a glimmer of hope. Hey, maybe we can have more real discussions in Political. Discussions that I know some people really enjoy reading. Discussions of issues.

And, Keedy, I am not picking on you at all. I appreciate it that you told Mr. Tony that he was right and that you should not have dug up that old thread. Chelsea is a wonderfully funny lady. And yes she is a Democrat but we forgive her. And Chelsea is the one who brought us that thread where we had so much fun writing captions for pictures. There is so much more here than just our politics.

And I have to hand it to you, Keedy, that was downright classy of you to admit that Mr. Tony is right. (But I still want you to hand over that six-shooter to me while you are in here. I will keep it for you right here behind the bar.)

And thanks, Keedy, for listening.

Boomer

[Guest]

I have posted in another thread about baiting and bashing. This is an example.
Pulling up a thread posted almost a year ago and using to bait with a
left-handed bash is unacceptable.

Please don't do it.

Thank you...

[Guest]

...at some point fairly recently, things got cranked up to a level that was not like the board I had known for so long. The slant to the right had gone up another notch. And the posts in Political seemed to be dominated by repeated phrases that had been gleaned from the right wing media din.

We have a few remaining in Political who will truly discuss issues as issues. But we also lost some good ones along the way when they just gave up because of the onslaught of all the stuff of the hatred of Obama that permeates parts of the media now. (And trust me, I am sure not defending the far left media. They can get nasty, too.)...Hear! Hear!

Sometimes I think it would be far easier to simply take a hike. The only reason I come back sometimes is to see what all the partisans of a particular leaning would find to argue about...er, ah "discuss".

[Guest]

pssssst, Keedy, come over here right now and listen to Boomer, er Miss Kitty, er Boomer....ohhhh, I know, I have truly gone mad....

But anyway, OK. Now, please listen. First of all, check that six-shooter right up here behind the bar while you are in here.

It will be better to just get over last fall. It's here. It's now. And lots of issues can be discussed as issues. J[QUOTE]ust issues. That's what real discussion is about. Issues.

We live in a world of information overload. A world from which it seems like the links are never missing anymore. And we could literally paper the board with a link war. That would be easy to do.

Of course, a link sometimes can be quite a good thing. But too many links as thread starts look to me like a leaflet drop like I said the other night when I was explaining some stuff from my angle. We could fling Huffington out there and follow it with Beck and on and on it could go and go. And what would be the point?

There are some really good links in cyberspace. (like the ones I use, of course. ;) -- just kidding. I think we have finally progressed to the stage where we can laugh.) But considering our sources and how they support our own opinions with facts is a really good way to use links. Links can be great starting points. But there are so many out there in cyberspace. There are those in political who make excellent use of links, sharing information on which they comment. And yeah those links can be a little slanted sometimes, but not inflammatory links for the sake of venting.

Also, Mr. Tony, Mr. Admin, Sir, made a really good point the other day about removing the political opinions that are being dragged around the whole board in the signature line. (I have seen them, too.)

Keedy, when I signed on here in November 2007, I had watched for a while. And then I joined. And then I started to post. And then it became part of my routine. And I could not seem to shut up. To this day, it remains my only board. I have watched it grow from a lame little operation with a short column over to the side where a post might appear every half hour if we were lucky. And then it started to grow. And we had information and fun everywhere.

The separate forums began to appear and Political was one of them And it went along with some back and forth that could get maybe a little hot from time to time, during the election, but really no big deal. Still OK.

But at some point fairly recently, things got cranked up to a level that was not like the board I had known for so long. The slant to the right had gone up another notch. And the posts in Political seemed to be dominated by repeated phrases that had been gleaned from the right wing media din.

We have a few remaining in Political who will truly discuss issues as issues. But we also lost some good ones along the way when they just gave up because of the onslaught of all the stuff of the hatred of Obama that permeates parts of the media now. (And trust me, I am sure not defending the far left media. They can get nasty, too.)

Keedy, I am worried about our country, just like you are. And so many others. And I have found that political discussions in real life, also, are becoming so angry sometimes. These are difficult times. And sometimes I think I am living in an Orwell book.

I saw someone compare TOTV to a newspaper somewhere along the line. And sadly, we all know that now newspapers almost all have their slants. And when I saw the cranking up that was happening here on TOTV, I considered just logging off forever. I thought I was seeing TOTV turn into a political rag (or maybe rage) on some days and a real snoozeroonie on others.

And then the lid blew late last week.

And now I think I see a glimmer of hope. Hey, maybe we can have more real discussions in Political. Discussions that I know some people really enjoy reading. Discussions of issues.

And, Keedy, I am not picking on you at all. I appreciate it that you told Mr. Tony that he was right and that you should not have dug up that old thread. Chelsea is a wonderfully funny lady. And yes she is a Democrat but we forgive her. And Chelsea is the one who brought us that thread where we had so much fun writing captions for pictures. There is so much more here than just our politics.

And I have to hand it to you, Keedy, that was downright classy of you to admit that Mr. Tony is right. [SIZE="1"](But I still want you to hand over that six-shooter to me while you are in here. I will keep it for you right here behind the bar.)

And thanks, Keedy, for listening.
Well, I wasn't here on this forum last fall but it was turned up a few notches in the threads I read. As far as your friend being funny...well, humor is subjective...I didn't chuckle once.
We are going through extraordinary times and that makes alot of people nervous. Some of us saw it coming but many refused to see.

Boomer....You have written my name at least 5 times in your post. Please send me a PM if you want to talk one on one.

[Guest]

Now that the "moderate" republican candidate in the New York election has withdrawn from the race and endorsed the democrat, it is clear that Sarah Palin not only had the guts to endorse the conservative candidate over the republican, the foresight to see that it really was a two person race and should not include a "moderate" republican, and the political power to make a difference. We will see who has the star power in two nights.

[Guest]

Now that the "moderate" republican candidate in the New York election has withdrawn from the race and endorsed the democrat, it is clear that Sarah Palin not only had the guts to endorse the conservative candidate over the republican, the foresight to see that it really was a two person race and should not include a "moderate" republican, and the political power to make a difference. We will see who has the star power in two nights.

JimJoe:

How did that work out for you? We New Yorkers (upstate) are far smarter than that.:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:

[Guest]

JimJoe:

How did that work out for you? We New Yorkers (upstate) are far smarter than that.:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:

I am sure you are proud of a win with 49% of the vote, and the defeated conservative had no support from the republican party. I wonder how Sarah can do if she actually shows up. Obviously President Obama and Biden didn't have much luck with their appearances in Virginia and New Jersey.

[Guest]

The media keeps calling Dede, whatever her last name is, a moderate. She is liberal. She is further to the left then Owens. Considering he only had a few weeks, Hoffman did okay. He only lost by 3% points. I'm sure ACORN alone could account for that amount.

[Guest]

The media keeps calling Dede, whatever her last name is, a moderate. She is liberal. She is further to the left then Owens. Considering he only had a few weeks, Hoffman did okay. He only lost by 3% points. I'm sure ACORN alone could account for that amount.

Didn't know they were involved. Show me!

[Guest]

I am sure you are proud of a win with 49% of the vote, and the defeated conservative had no support from the republican party. I wonder how Sarah can do if she actually shows up. Obviously President Obama and Biden didn't have much luck with their appearances in Virginia and New Jersey.

I am.

[Guest]

I am sure you are proud of a win with 49% of the vote, and the defeated conservative had no support from the republican party. I wonder how Sarah can do if she actually shows up. Obviously President Obama and Biden didn't have much luck with their appearances in Virginia and New Jersey.

I believe the LIBS will take any small victory they can. This is just the start of some real CHANGE. CHANGE that I believe in. :clap2::clap2:

[Guest]

I believe the LIBS will take any small victory they can. This is just the start of some real CHANGE. CHANGE that I believe in. :clap2::clap2:

Small change like ... a sweep of the Presidency, the House, the Senate? It's only been 11 months. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride:MOJE_whot:.

[Guest]

I didn't say ACORN had anything to do with NY23. I have no evidence one way or the other. I was implying that that is their MO. I do know that whenever there is a recount, mysterious votes start coming out of the woodwork. The votes always favor the Democrat.

[Guest]

footing of one like Pelosi:

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Pelosi_dismisses_impact_of_New_Jersey_Virginia.htm l

Can you imagine what she would have had to say if the Dems would have cleaned up last night.

I do believe in playing to a strong position no matter what....but there is a practical limit. To say that Virginia and NJ didn't really matter is a rather knee jerk, non thinking response (typical Pelosi).
I wonder if they will matter to her in the 2010 Congressional seats.

It some what portrays what I come up against with Dems all too often...it is the old....I may not be right all the time but I am never wrong....attitude.

btk

[Guest]

I didn't say ACORN had anything to do with NY23. I have no evidence one way or the other. I was implying that that is their MO. I do know that whenever there is a recount, mysterious votes start coming out of the woodwork. The votes always favor the Democrat.

The votes always favor the Democrat? On what planet? Lets' talk about George W.'s thuggery recount in 2000, and Ken Blackwell's rigged Ohio election in 2004. Those are for the highest offices in the land- anthig else is small potatoes.

Growing up in Nassau County. L.I., the cons had such a stranglehold on the election process that they controlled all offices up to and incuding U.S. senator, and part-time mobster Alphonse D'Amato.

Of course, when you look at virtually any local party system, the concept of fair & free election recounts go right out the window.

This only a comment about "The vote ALWAYS favor the Democrat."

[Guest]

The votes always favor the Democrat? On what planet? Lets' talk about George W.'s thuggery recount in 2000, and Ken Blackwell's rigged Ohio election in 2004. Those are for the highest offices in the land- anthig else is small potatoes.

Growing up in Nassau County. L.I., the cons had such a stranglehold on the election process that they controlled all offices up to and incuding U.S. senator, and part-time mobster Alphonse D'Amato.

Of course, when you look at virtually any local party system, the concept of fair & free election recounts go right out the window.

This only a comment about "The vote ALWAYS favor the Democrat."

Can we agree that voter fraud is a problem for everyone, and that reasonably protections are needed to ensure the accuracy of the vote? The most recent problems are to some degree caused by unrestricted absentee ballots. I think if you want to cast an absentee ballot, the voter must be identified by a public election official before it can count. For the military the local commander could verify the voter. For medical ballots the voter could be verified by hospital personnel. If the voter would be gone on election day, they could vote absentee at their local voter registration office. It is absolutely necessary that election fraud be investigated and prosecuted, and eliminated.

[Guest]

To say that Virginia and NJ didn't really matter is a rather knee jerk, non thinking response (typical Pelosi).


It's typical politics. Doesn't matter if it's Democrat or Republican. It's spin.

Last night, Ari Fleischer, former Press Secretary for President Bush, was shown on Jon Stewart's "The Daily Show" saying how these couple of races were repudiations of the Democrats and that it wasn't "just local politics".

Then they showed footage of him a few years ago giving a press conference after the Democrats took some races in an off year election (I want to say it was the 2001 election) and said "it's just local politics".

As Jon Stewart has said in the past "Do they NOT know that the cameras are rolling when they talk?"

[Guest]

Before these elections, the Republicans were saying that the really important one was in New York. This would be a litmus test for 2010 elections! Well.......hmmmmmmmm..... I sure do hope so! :024: