Sen. Obama....a radical ??

[Guest]

First of all, when I talk about Sen. Obama as a radical, I am not speaking of his character, but his idealogy. When I first became involved in deciding who to vote for this election because I am as frustrated as everyone else with the problems in the nation, I looked long and hard at the Democratic primary. I did not get my wished in the Republican primary and surely as the Democratic primary unfolded, I really began to investigate. It is easy to investigate Sen, McCain..his record is public...same with Sen Clinton. Thus I felt that is was important to know who this guy Sen Obama was, as he has a minimal public record.

I did basically the same thing I would do if I were hiring someone in a top flight position. Who trained him, what does he believe, etc. In the middle of my investigation, the Rev Wright episode took place which pretty much sealed the deal. Cetainly we should discuss that episode because it has impact on who Sen Obama is.

But this morning someone challanged me to talk about WHY I think Sen Obama is radical, and before I go on....to me...this is my personal opinion....change is great but change JUST FOR CHANGE can be so very dangerous.

One of Sen Obama's early heros in politics was Saul Alinsky. Let me introduce you to Saul Alinsky...here is a link to read some general stuff about him..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

I think one of the most telling lines in that capsule is that Sen Clinton wrote her senior thesis on him but when she went to the WH, the White House asked Wesley College to restrict access to her writings so that she would not be too closely associated with him. He was a model for Cesar Chavez.

Just LAST WEEK, Saul Alinsky's son commented on how the Democratic convention met all the specifics that his father had spelled out...its first line "In Artful Dodger style, Barack Obama, plays down his mentorship with Communist author Saul Alinsky. " tells a lot. Below is a link to that story which you will note is in the Canadian Press...

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/4784

I am restricting what I link to so that those who would say I am linking to hard right websites cannot do so. There is much more on his relationships with other RADICAL LEFT WING folks.

This is not a smear campaign because I have no reason to beleive that he is nothing but a nice man, it is his idealogy of RADICAL LEFT WING that I do not want in the White House.

[Guest]

There is a lot more out there but to insure that this is taken seriously I am staying away from anything but mainstream media or at least trying.

Oh, more on Mr Alinsky.....he is the author of a book called RULES FOR RADICALS...he dedicated this book to LUCIFER...yeah, that one !

There has been much talk that Michelle Obama actually used one of his quotes at her speech at the Democratic convention. While it does convey the same message a number of words were changed that make it only semi accurate.

Below is another article from CBS news on Sen Obama's attempt to keep a lot of stuff quiet....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/31/politics/politico/main3981093.shtml

[Guest]

Bucco,

While I am the one who asked for this information...I would like to say thank you. I will read through later on and certainly share my feelings. I also wanted to say that I did not feel in anyway that you are bashing Obama and as a Democrat I would like to say thank you! We can only learn from each other....whether we agree or not...it is good to learn.

I am willing to read and not take this too personally....but give you a clear opinion of my thoughts after doing so. I am hoping our fellow TOTV's will do the same.

Again thank you for doing the research and providing this info for me as I requested it....

Keep in mind that you may get me emotional again about my opinions....brace yourself my friend! ;D ;)

[Guest]

No problem CASSIE...there is much much more out there to read about Sen Obama and others....the association however thin with William Ayers, the Weatherman bomber....Frank Marshall Davis who is a communist and considered a mentor...heard that before ?....of Sen Obama...and of course Rev Wright who it seems is forgotten but in my mind...well, if Gov Palin had gone to a church anywhere near to that type of church for TWENTY YEARS what might be said...if Sen McCain had done it ?

I believe the demotion of the Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman might begin to get some of the hard questins asked. Actually had these guys asked the tough questions early on, Sen Clinton would be the nomineee....if you recall, after the Rev Wright thing came out,it was no longer landslide Obama but Sen Clinton could not catch up.

I think there is more to come on these associations and remember...this is a young man who has all this in his past, but wants us to forget it because he is a great orator....he is on the stage at exactly the right time...unpopular war....bad economy....it is just that you can make too radical of a change in changes name !

[Guest]

WOW, great information. Thanks Bucco. Somewhat scary that the mainstream media didn't uncover more of this. More scary is that we might still elect him. And worse than that is we have such a poor choice in either party. Guess I need to focus on getting a more balanced congress and senete so that whoever gets elected only the best stuff gets past where both parties are behind it.

[Guest]

My goodness Bucco, if ALL of this were completely true, I would think the press would be all over it! Also, the McCain campaign. I haven't heard this from either. The Canadian Free Press? Give me a break! Sorry, not buying.

[Guest]

My goodness Bucco, if ALL of this were completely true, I would think the press would be all over it! Also, the McCain campaign. I haven't heard this from either. The Canadian Free Press? Give me a break! Sorry, not buying.
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Which do you not believe.....the encyclopedia part ? The Canadian Free Press, or CBS ?

Chelsea...there is so much more...if you think the Rev Wright thing is gone it is not....the Clintons knew all this...that is why they said he could not be elected....that part is my opinion of what they were speaking.

The mainstream media will get to it...the references to "neighborhood organizing" at the convention, etc.....I believe in my heart it will come out before the election if necessary but no matter what....whether you believe it or not and what I posted was NOT opinion.....lots of smoke for a young man who has written two books ABOUT HIMSELF...lots of smoke...can you imagine all this for any other candidate in history ? Why do you thiink in a bad economy and an unpopular war...an upopular president the incumbent party candidate is leading in the polls ? It should be a runaway !

[Guest]

A poster on here once said the British press gets it right....the below is dated 8/24 from the Telegraph.UK who I do not believe is accused of being right wing...it discusses Sen Obamas relationship with communist Frank Davis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2601914/Frank-Marshall-Davis-alleged-Communist-was-early-influence-on-Barack-Obama.html

[Guest]

Are you kidding! Guillani got slammed for making fun of community organizers! I'll wait to see if the mainstream media makes an issue of any of this, if that's OK with you. And if you want my honest answer, I believe the polls are so close for two reasons, fear and race. I wish I was wrong on those two issues, but I don't think I am. It's sad.

[Guest]

It does seem to be race anytime you criticize Sen Obama on anything !

[Guest]

I for one wold not hold my breath for the main stream media to uncover anything that is not in line with or damaging to their partisan objectives....this comment is non partisan as it applies to both sides. However there are some media affiliates who are definitely polarized in their beliefs and position. I will leave each of you to determining who is for or against any particular issue. It is no big secret regarding the media in no way, shape or form reports life an issue at face value....especially one not that is inconsistent with their agenda.

How about using TV Daily Sun as a close to home example. Does anybody think they represent an open view of the issues here in TV to their subscribers of life in TV???? Not for one minute!!!!!!! It is a microcosm of the national media networks. I rest my case!

BTK

[Guest]

Why would you expect the lame stream media to report anything negative about Obama??? Look at all the scandals in the Clinton administration. The press looked the other way. Charles Colson went to jail for having one FBI file. The Clintons had hundreds and nothing ever happened. Sandy Burger took out files from the national archives. Nothing ever happened. If this had been Republicans they would have been crucified in the press. Republicans resign when there is a scandal. Democrats keep right on rolling. William Jefferson comes to mind.

[Guest]

I can think of Scooter Libby, Senator Wide Stance, Senator Vitter on the DC Madames and using the brothels in NO...Not to mention that really nice congressman from Florida who just wanted to be friends with the male pages.

You mention one Democrat who has not yet been convicted but you seem to have forgotten the congressman from San Diego who sits in jail now for taking bribes from defense contractors.

[Guest]

Of course the mainstream media is aware of Sen Obama's background. This subject seems to make folks very uneasy.....yes, the media can be bias and sometimes to a fault (See the demotion of Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman). They were just about forced todiscuss the Rev Wright situation which, in my personal opinion is still a large LARGE issue.

There is so much more...I am trying to stay as mainstream as I can with links....google these radicals and you will find connections, albeit in some cases loose or under investigated, but gee...Sen Obama is a young man to have so much baggage in my opinion.

As I said before.....my problem with Sen Obama is simply his ideology....thus whatever he tells me on issues is negated...I just do not want a radical left winger inthe WH !

[Guest]

Of course the mainstream media is aware of Sen Obama's background. This subject seems to make folks very uneasy.....yes, the media can be bias and sometimes to a fault (See the demotion of Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman). They were just about forced todiscuss the Rev Wright situation which, in my personal opinion is still a large LARGE issue.

There is so much more...I am trying to stay as mainstream as I can with links....google these radicals and you will find connections, albeit in some cases loose or under investigated, but gee...Sen Obama is a young man to have so much baggage in my opinion.

As I said before.....my problem with Sen Obama is simply his ideology....thus whatever he tells me on issues is negated...I just do not want a radical left winger inthe WH !


Perhaps you missed the headline Bucco but I did not:

Frank Marshall Davis, alleged Communist, was early influence on Barack Obama.

Obama met this guy when he was 8 years old....this article was more about Davis's sexual activity.

You directed me to a website about Saul Alinsky...your post said One of Sen Obama's early heroes in politics was Saul Alinsky. Let me introduce you to Saul Alinsky...here is a link to read some general stuff about him..

But that link told me this...


Thirteen years after Alinsky died, some of his former students hired Barack Obama to a $13,000 a year job as a community organizer in South Chicago. In a few years he became very proficient in the Alinsky Method of community organizing and became an instructor and teacher of the Alinsky Method to other community organizers.

You are always going off on Obama's connection to a Weatherman.....who did what he did when Obama was 8. Then he met Ayers 40 years later as a respected college professor.

I get it you think Obama is a liberal...wait thats not good enough now he has to be a radical communists/socialist...

If you can find that Obama is a card carrying member of the Communist Party....you could make a lot of money.

Now lets talk about the issues...How the heck can we pay for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae? Why are we paying for this bailout? These are private companies, until 1968 they were federal companies, but then they were deregulated.

[Guest]

Okay.....so much of what you say I agree with...

1. You say "You are always going off on Obama's connection to a Weatherman....." UNTIL THIS EVENING I HAVE NEVER EVER, NOT ONCE, NEVER EVEN TYPED THAT NAME...IF YOU SHOW IT TO ME I WILL BE SHOCKED...IT NEVER HAPPENED

2. I dont care if the word alleged is there or not. You choose not to look at the big picture at all. I presented the articles...I read them and many others and came to my conclusion which I tried to explain...I even titled the thread with a ?mark.

3. Yes I know he is a liberal but again you miss my point...I believe...note that is ME,..that he is radical not JUST left wing.

4. While the Communist Party of America has endorsed him strongly, I never once ever ever called him a communist...that was your leap afer reading the articles and I can see how you got there ! There are a lot more articles to read !

4. You find fault and want to discuss ISSUES. Please if you checkmy posts where you will find NO MENTION OF WEATHERMAN, you will find my askingfolks to discuss issues.
HOWEVER...THE most fervent and the most passionate threads and posts have been reserved for Gov Palin and her daughter and her librarian with NO credibility. I have offered some credibility for what I think IS AN ISSUE !

[Guest]

Okay.....so much of what you say I agree with...

1. You say "You are always going off on Obama's connection to a Weatherman....." UNTIL THIS EVENING I HAVE NEVER EVER, NOT ONCE, NEVER EVEN TYPED THAT NAME...IF YOU SHOW IT TO ME I WILL BE SHOCKED...IT NEVER HAPPENED

2. I dont care if the word alleged is there or not. You choose not to look at the big picture at all. I presented the articles...I read them and many others and came to my conclusion which I tried to explain...I even titled the thread with a ?mark.

3. Yes I know he is a liberal but again you miss my point...I believe...note that is ME,..that he is radical not JUST left wing.

4. While the Communist Party of America has endorsed him strongly, I never once ever ever called him a communist...that was your leap afer reading the articles and I can see how you got there ! There are a lot more articles to read !

4. You find fault and want to discuss ISSUES. Please if you checkmy posts where you will find NO MENTION OF WEATHERMAN, you will find my askingfolks to discuss issues.
HOWEVER...THE most fervent and the most passionate threads and posts have been reserved for Gov Palin and her daughter and her librarian with NO credibility. I have offered some credibility for what I think IS AN ISSUE !


I REALLY HATE TO DO THIS BUT I HAVE TO: Here is your post...with the word Weatherman in it.

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Re: Is this guy really ready for this position. Be honest with yourself.

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I am curious, could you please list the Marxists by name? Such a statement sounds very familiar, like a Senator from Wisconsin back in the 50s stating "I have a list of communists in the State Department." but never providing the list.
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Surely....not in any particular order...

SAUL ALINSKY....A fellow who lived and died in Chicago in 1972, the author of "Rules for Radicals"..one of his students was Cesar Chavez, and actually Hillary Clinton wrote her thesis on this guy but it was not allowed to see the light of day during the Clinton presidency. The following quote is from a writer who wrote on the connection between Sen Obama and Alinsky..."Finally, in 1983, he decided to follow in the footsteps of one of his heroes, radical leftist and communist fellow traveler, Saul Alinsky. He concluded, "That's what I'll do… I'll organize black folks at the grass roots… for change.". However this is from his memoirs "among his friends he included "the more politically active black students, foreign students, Chicanos, Marxist professors, feminists, and punk rock performance poets."
This is a quote from Sen Obama discussing some things about Alinsky....""Sometimes the tendency in community organizing of the sort done by Alinsky was to downplay the power of words and of ideas when in fact ideas and words are pretty powerful. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal.' Those are just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

There is a lot more out there but I am trying to keep away from the facts twister.

FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS...A labor activist known for his communist connections. He died in 1987 but during the 70s Sen Obama had a very close relationship with him and this is the guy that when Sen Obama refers to Frank his advisor that folks say he is referring to.

Again, I am trying to stay away from some of the other things out there because to my knowledge no verification on some stuff but lots and lots of smoke.

WILIAM AYERS...one of the famous WEATHERMEN of the 60's who bombed and killed. I cannot comment on any relationship here because the only facts are that Ayers contributed to Obamas campaign which in itself means nothing...they did served together at the same time on a board or two in Chicago however.

Now, I could add that Sen Obama has received an enthusiatic endorsement from the American Communist party or mention Rev Wright, etc, but my point is and always has been on this...

My concern with Sen Obama is that there is NO list of accomplishments for him...if you look at the current legislation he proffered in Congress (Global Poverty Act)..that is pretty socialist, and he himself has said he wants to "reallocate the worlds resources".....Lacking any achievements to make a consideration on, TO ME...it would seem that his training and past associates and those he calls mentors would be most important. Now, I find the above plus more but much of that falls into a catagory of hearsay...but this is what I have to go on...nothing more.

This is my concern...I am NOT a supporter of Sen McCain....I agree with some and disagree with other things he has done or stood for. In the case of Sen Obama, my concern is simply that he seems to stand for a very far left, socialist program and that is something I oppose.

I am open minded if you can allay any of my fears !

[Guest]

Good research COLOGAL...dont hate to do it....you are right and I was wrong...I did not think I had mentioned any of the associates by name like that...you got me...you are correct !

Did you understand my response to you ?

[Guest]

cologal said "
Now lets talk about the issues...How the heck can we pay for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae? Why are we paying for this bailout? These are private companies, until 1968 they were federal companies, but then they were deregulated."
Today
Palin was talking about how Freddie and Fannie were costing the taxpayers to much so the government had to take over. I don't think she was aware that Freddie and Fannie were private companies.

[Guest]

cologal said "
Now lets talk about the issues...How the heck can we pay for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae? Why are we paying for this bailout? These are private companies, until 1968 they were federal companies, but then they were deregulated."
Today
Palin was talking about how Freddie and Fannie were costing the taxpayers to much so the government had to take over. I don't think she was aware that Freddie and Fannie were private companies.
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SAMHASS...do you want me to cut and paste all the times I have posted on here about discussing issues ?

There are threads on all the issues but everyone has been busy slamming Gov Palin.

By the way,there are a number of connnections between Sen Obama's campaign and fannie mae !!!!!

[Guest]

It is hard for me...I don't support Obama but I am really tired of the smear emails that go flying around. Trust me that statement is NOT directed at you.

I had to look up William Ayers cause I didn't remember him. The fact that Obama was on some boards with him is not an issue. Now if Obama helped him make the bomb....

Davis was a black poet...don't really know much about him but Obama was introduced to him by his grandfather... Just think of it 2 white people from Kansas raising 2 kids of color what do they know about black culture. Was he a communist? I don't know but Obama was 10.

I like debate but would rather be talking about the issues...I am really freaked out about Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae....

Obama was actually rated as a moderate Democrat until this year when he became the most liberal... So I think he is left of Hillary but I don't think he is a communist.

[Guest]

I don't think Palin's aware of many things. But, to Bucco's associations, let's look at Todd Palin and his association to the AIP. They wanted to sucede from the "lower 48". So much for "Country First."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4687705.ece

[Guest]

1. I did not call Sen Obama a communist...those are your words ! I never even said anything negative about his character.

2. What I have posted IS NOT THE RESULT OF ANY EMAILS. If you read the preamble to my first post here I told you very clearly how I came upon this information and trust me there is so much more !

3. Sen Obama is not only the top rated libeal in Congress...it has always been this way. IF you would read the article I posted about how he tried to change his survey back in Chicago so he would not appear to be as liberal as he was !

4. I just made a post on your fannie mae thread and suggest you visit the threads started about the issues !

[Guest]

I don't think Palin's aware of many things. But, to Bucco's associations, let's look at Todd Palin and his association to the AIP. They wanted to sucede from the "lower 48". So much for "Country First."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4687705.ece
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Thanks for the link CHELSEA and of course your ever present personal slam...would be dissapointed if you didnt make it personal.

Oh, and it is good reading...I have not yet begun to talk about Michelle Obama's relationships with some folks but was considering her off limits and still do....dont go that way ! But you enjoy ...I am talking about a man who wants to be in the White House.,..not his spouse...oh, and Sen Biden's spouse is off limits to me also.

[Guest]

Just curious how you took my post as a personal slam? Just because I used your name Bucco, Bucco? Please explain.

Also Sarah must have higher hopes than VP as she calls Todd "First Dude." 1rnfl

[Guest]

This is what I was referring to...

"I don't think Palin's aware of many things"

For some reason you need to give all the candidates and their families on the Republican side a zinger...its ok, just called it to your attention.

I am sure I may have done such a thing but I do try and keep it on the level...always call by their title...and try to never get personal !

[Guest]

Bucco....did you honestly think this would not get personal. You should know better and I warned you!

Now it is just too late for me to comment right now....will do so tomorrow....but I may get emotional too!

[Guest]

Bucco....did you honestly think this would not get personal. You should know better and I warned you!

Now it is just too late for me to comment right now....will do so tomorrow....but I may get emotional too!
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No, expected it. I must say that most,not all but most, of the personal slams come from the left HOWEVER having said that.....the public vetting of Gov Palin added to that....see, I think the vetting was to be expected being an unknown...that does not/did not bother me...what bothers me is the extent some folks go to on this, and after wasting all thier passion on the library or ONE EMAIL that some lady sent, they ignore the real issues and the background of the man they want to be President, who may be a nice and fine man but oh my....of course if folks want a radical left wing President that is their choice but there is so much in this YOUNG man's background that SHOULD alarm voters !

[Guest]

Bucco....that is each persons right....they can think their own way....relax! You did what you wanted to do...not everyone agrees and that is OK....

Hang in there! Be proud that you posted your facts, opinions and information! But let others take it in and form ther own opinion!! Keep sharing yours but no use in getting to upset about it!

Remember...I am a lefty as well so I could take things very personally and get emotional...best I do it in the morning after coffee!!!

[Guest]

Ya see Bucco, I like Senator Obama, background and all. I like what he stands for. I like the hope he brings. I like his stands on the issues. I'm going to vote for him. That's a done deal. I don't care if his Aunt Tilly grows pot. I like him very, very much. So, any and all cautions are wasted on me. ;)

[Guest]

Ya see Bucco, I like Senator Obama, background and all. I like what he stands for. I like the hope he brings. I like his stands on the issues. I'm going to vote for him. That's a done deal. I don't care if his Aunt Tilly raised pot. I like him very, very much. So, any and all cautions are wasted on me. ;)



I don't think the are LOST on you....gives you something to be passionatly against!! And that is ok!!

[Guest]

Ya see Bucco, I like Senator Obama, background and all. I like what he stands for. I like the hope he brings. I like his stands on the issues. I'm going to vote for him. That's a done deal. I don't care if his Aunt Tilly grows pot. I like him very, very much. So, any and all cautions are wasted on me.
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As always you think all the posts are to you or about you. I was certainly not addressing you with this one.

You are absolutely correct to like what you want and vote anyway you want...this is America and that is our right. I have as much right to talk about Sen Obama's radical ties in his background as you do to mock Gov Palin..isnt it a wonderful country !

[Guest]

I don't think Palin's aware of many things. But, to Bucco's associations, let's look at Todd Palin and his association to the AIP. They wanted to sucede from the "lower 48". So much for "Country First."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4687705.ece

The AIP is not much different than the "Conch Republic" or any other group located at the far outreaches of the nation. The number of AIP members with Native American heritage (many of whom still see the federal government more as a warden than a partner) influences its agenda.

The AIP and similar groups basically do "community organizing" to insure the populace doesn't get ramrodded by carpetbagging "southerners (to them)" exploiting the area. The AIP's platform (Article 1) calls To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska. (http://www.akip.org/platform.html)

if one has ever lived in Texas, the same attitude exists within that state among persons with long roots there.

[Guest]

Just pointing out "associates" Steve. Bucco seems to be hung up on associates of Senator Obama's made years ago or blown out of proportion. Actually forgets to mention that Senator Obama ran against Bobby Rush for Congress in Illinois and lost that election in 2000.

I'm from Chicago, so I clearly remembered how these things played out. hmmmm, yes, the people of Chicago voted Bobby Rush in. hmmmm, associations? Oh yes, did I mention that Bobby Rush was the co-founder of the Black Panthers in Chicago. You all remember the Black Panthers don't you?

Just stating this to show how people do move past some associations, as Bobby Rush did. By the way, Bobby Rush supports Obama now. So?

The William Ayers connection is just ludicrous. Senator Obama was 8 years old when Ayers had anything to do with the Weathermen, a $200 dollar contribution to a re-elect Obama fund and they sat on an eight member Woods Fund board.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

BTW, I think is you're going to stoop to "guilt by association" it works both ways.

[Guest]

...
BTW, I think is you're going to stoop to "guilt by association" it works both ways.


Of course it does, provided the associate(s) have an agenda of anti-Americanism, anarchy, criminal acts, domestic terrorism, and employ or endorse mayhem against the general populace to achieve their ends.

Big-city politics (Chicago, Boston, Detroit, NYC, LA) are considered more notorious simply because of the greater amount of money involved. None of these places has cornered the market on shadiness. Small-city/town and county have their share, but don't have the media exposure and money to match.

Perspective is difficult to attain when only a single light shines into the prism of fact. Distortion is commonplace in such situations, and we all need to realize that. It's too easy to run with a single source of information and be dead wrong - and that goes for all of the candidates in this campaign.

[Guest]

Of course it does, provided the associate(s) have an agenda of anti-Americanism, anarchy, criminal acts, domestic terrorism, and employ or endorse mayhem against the general populace to achieve their ends.

Big-city politics (Chicago, Boston, Detroit, NYC, LA) are considered more notorious simply because of the greater amount of money involved. None of these places has cornered the market on shadiness. Small-city/town and county have their share, but don't have the media exposure and money to match.

Perspective is difficult to attain when only a single light shines into the prism of fact. Distortion is commonplace in such situations, and we all need to realize that. It's too easy to run with a single source of information and be dead wrong - and that goes for all of the candidates in this campaign.


On this particular post, we do agree! I particularly like your statement "Perspective is difficult to attain when only a single light shines into a prism of fact." :bigthumbsup: