The Florida Militia

[Carl in Tampa]

This post is not to re-ignite the Second Amendment discussion, but rather to educate people who are apparently ignorant of facts about the modern militia. There is no shame to being ignorant; only in refusing to learn.

Florida law makes a distinction between the "organized militia" and the "unorganized militia." I have in my lifetime been a member of each.

Do not make the error of believing that the concept of the militia is obsolete.

Florida Statutues

250.02 Militia.—
(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.
History.—s. 4, ch. 8502, 1921; CGL 2015; s. 1, ch. 25112, 1949; s. 1, ch. 73-93; s. 2, ch. 2003-68.
Note.—Former ss. 250.04, 250.05.

You might want to make a search of the militia for your home state. You might be surprised to learn that there is a provision somewhere in your state's law that provides for both an organized militia and an unorganized militia. There is a lot more to it than just the National Guard.

[fred53]

So you've presented a fairly vague post about militia in the guise of educating us...what precisely is your point? Because in the interest of being educated you haven't provided a basis for posting this.

[rubicon]

Carl your opening sentence explains the basis for what followed. You do most of us a service because the arguments against have discredited the issue of a readied citizen. Thank you.

[kittygilchrist]

So you've presented a fairly vague post about militia in the guise of educating us...what precisely is your point? Because in the interest of being educated you haven't provided a basis for posting this.

I have never known Carl to post anything without the point being sharp and clear. there will always be those who misunderstand a post no matter how clearly it's articulated. It seems to me that the point is obvious, that perhaps many of us were unaware of this law on militia.

i'm intrigued and pondering the definition of able-bodied with regard to the organized militia…

[Jimturner]

My father was English. Since the British were kicked out of America by the original militia, would I be welcome to join? Could I ask for a statistical report on how many women, minorities and a breakout by religious beliefs so I can be sure this band of citizens represents all Americans?

[RickeyD]

My father was English. Since the British were kicked out of America by the original militia, would I be welcome to join? Could I ask for a statistical report on how many women, minorities and a breakout by religious beliefs so I can be sure this band of citizens represents all Americans?


A militia consists of volunteer members. As Americans we embrace ALL that wish to defend our liberty and freedom. Any religious belief or ethnicity is welcome because freedom and liberty is the commonality.

[Jimturner]

A militia consists of volunteer members. As Americans we embrace ALL that wish to defend our liberty and freedom. Any religious belief or ethnicity is welcome because freedom and liberty is the commonality.

Thank you. As long as the interpretation of freedom and liberty comes from all sexes, races and religions, count me in. However, I fear some malitias get their start from a select group of men sitting at the counter of local watering holes. My hope is that I am wrong.

[Sandtrap328]

Definitely not to argue but I saw that Florida Statute 790.29 seems to prohibit paramilitary training. Isn't that still a law on the books?

[Taltarzac725]

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=190.06

Minnesota seems to have more details in how they see a militia.

What do some of your former states say about this?

I would expect though if we were being overrun by Chinese that the State Governors in question would want to arm the militia's with a little more than shotguns, 30-30s, pistols and the like. You would need much heavier firepower against Chinese armored cars, tanks, etc.

[fred53]

Why does he not just come out and say "Florida has a militia and it is legal....if you want to join let us know"? And then state why we should join.

It is vague because he doesn't state any particular reason for the post other than to say it's legal and been around a while. No different than making a post that I hunt with a license and people have been doing it for ages....it's vague and meant to sort of educate...so you like his post...all that means is that you are or could be friends...

[Taltarzac725]

I remember writing the NRA maybe twenty years ago about my 224 613 Project. It is the same kind of principal of checks and balances through access to the ability to fight for yourself. In my Project's case though it was the ability to find up-to-date and practical information to weather the storm of the legal system if you were a survivor/victim of crime.

I have mixed feelings about gun control though being a survivor/victim activist as so many guns are used in mass shootings which would belong more in an armory than say in someone's gun cabinet.

The problem of course is an evil group of people getting control of the armory if such weapons were just in these kind of armories rather than in the hands of citizens.

This does seem to be a very complicated and interesting topic.

I would like to know more about what other States' Statutes say about militias? How about your home state?

On a little amusing aside, I tried contacting Playboy as well as the NRA around the same time and the nice woman who answered from Playboy said that they would not be interested in writing an article on any topic like that one. Not even a picture!

[outlaw]

Why does he not just come out and say "Florida has a militia and it is legal....if you want to join let us know"? And then state why we should join.

It is vague because he doesn't state any particular reason for the post other than to say it's legal and been around a while. No different than making a post that I hunt with a license and people have been doing it for ages....it's vague and meant to sort of educate...so you like his post...all that means is that you are or could be friends...

Maybe the OP was providing some information that he thought would pique your interest and motivate you to do a little research on your own. And then again, maybe not.

[fred53]

Carl your opening sentence explains the basis for what followed. You do most of us a service because the arguments against have discredited the issue of a readied citizen. Thank you.

your post explains that you all are trying to recruit people for your "cause"....being blithely obtuse in your desire to promote a citizen army and I'm guessing the right to own fire arms....

I guess you're wary against a straight forward post stating that....might scare a few folks...

[Taltarzac725]

your post explains that you all are trying to recruit people for your "cause"....being blithely obtuse in your desire to promote a citizen army and I'm guessing the right to own fire arms....

I guess you're wary against a straight forward post stating that....might scare a few folks...

It seemed to me that Carl in Tampa was just interested in getting us to actually look at the state laws on militias. That's a great idea IMHO. And, I do not think you need a lawyer to interpret these laws unlike many other much more complicated areas of law.

Doing research on the laws is a great start to informed discussions about things.

[outlaw]

your post explains that you all are trying to recruit people for your "cause"....being blithely obtuse in your desire to promote a citizen army and I'm guessing the right to own fire arms....

I guess you're wary against a straight forward post stating that....might scare a few folks...

Based on your assumptions and inferences, I guess you don't believe in the 2nd A, and by extension, the BOR. Why not just say that?

[outlaw]

I remember writing the NRA maybe twenty years ago about my 224 613 Project. It is the same kind of principal of checks and balances through access to the ability to fight for yourself. In my Project's case though it was the ability to find up-to-date and practical information to weather the storm of the legal system if you were a survivor/victim of crime.

I have mixed feelings about gun control though being a survivor/victim activist as so many guns are used in mass shootings which would belong more in an armory than say in someone's gun cabinet.

The problem of course is an evil group of people getting control of the armory if such weapons were just in these kind of armories rather than in the hands of citizens.

This does seem to be a very complicated and interesting topic.

I would like to know more about what other States' Statutes say about militias? How about your home state?

On a little amusing aside, I tried contacting Playboy as well as the NRA around the same time and the nice woman who answered from Playboy said that they would not be interested in writing an article on any topic like that one. Not even a picture!

I can only recall maybe one mass shooting that involved a scary black rifle. The vast, vast, majority of mass shootings were with handguns. I believe FBI stats will confirm that there are more murders, annually, with baseball bats than rifles.

[Taltarzac725]

I can only recall maybe one mass shooting that involved a scary black rifle. The vast, vast, majority of mass shootings were with handguns. I believe FBI stats will confirm that there are more murders, annually, with baseball bats than rifles.

https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-guns-of-columbine/

I would like to see more information about the weapons used in these various shootings.

You may be right about the baseball bats though but these would be domestic violence murders where they use anything that is on hand like chairs, pots, glasses, etc.

[outlaw]

https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-guns-of-columbine/

I would like to see more information about the weapons used in these various shootings.

You may be right about the baseball bats though but these would be domestic violence murders where they use anything that is on hand like chairs, pots, glasses, etc.

I think they are the Jersey choice for in the trunk weapon.

[kittygilchrist]

Why does he not just come out and say "Florida has a militia and it is legal....if you want to join let us know"? And then state why we should join.

It is vague because he doesn't state any particular reason for the post other than to say it's legal and been around a while. No different than making a post that I hunt with a license and people have been doing it for ages....it's vague and meant to sort of educate...so you like his post...all that means is that you are or could be friends...

My guess is that Carl would've said what you said if He meant what you said, which he did not.

[tomwed]

i forgot

[Taltarzac725]

the claim that more people are killed by baseball bats than by firearms, an assertion typically cited as a truism which is borne out by FBI statistics.

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

However, information gathered by the FBI does not support this claim. The Uniform Crime Reports made available on the "Crime in the U.S." section of the FBI's web site includes homicide data that breaks down killings by the types of weapons used. In 2011, the percentages for weapon types used in homicides throughout the U.S. were as follows:
Firearms: 67.8%
Knives or other cutting instruments: 13.4%
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.): 5.7%
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.): 3.9%
Other dangerous weapons: 9.2%

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

Not a big fan of Snopes.com but glad you posted that tomwed. I had some problems of a serious nature with Snopes.com in my 224 613 Project but they can be very useful for research. Let's just say Snopes received a lot of e-mails from me back in the day to rival the number of e-mails I had sent to other entities. It is just a couple in Los Angeles-- the Mikkelsons-- who had a good idea.

[billethkid]

Thank you. As long as the interpretation of freedom and liberty comes from all sexes, races and religions, count me in. However, I fear some malitias get their start from a select group of men sitting at the counter of local watering holes. My hope is that I am wrong.

You are. And come across as dated and very biased....to me anyway.....and that is your preogative.

[golfing eagles]

the claim that more people are killed by baseball bats than by firearms, an assertion typically cited as a truism which is borne out by FBI statistics.

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

However, information gathered by the FBI does not support this claim. The Uniform Crime Reports made available on the "Crime in the U.S." section of the FBI's web site includes homicide data that breaks down killings by the types of weapons used. In 2011, the percentages for weapon types used in homicides throughout the U.S. were as follows:
Firearms: 67.8%
Knives or other cutting instruments: 13.4%
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.): 5.7%
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.): 3.9%
Other dangerous weapons: 9.2%

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

Maybe if you break down firearms into rifles vs handguns it's true.

I wonder what happens to those percentages if we just exclude Chicago, Detroit, Wash DC, and New Orleans?

[tomwed]

i forgot

[tomwed]

i forgot

[AJ32162]

I'm anxious to learn and it was hard to research. Why don't you tell me what you know about the militias in Florida and add the links.
Teachers call that a lesson plan.

If you are truly that anxious to to learn, might I suggest that you might start with learning how to research the subjects that you are interested in.

[outlaw]

You are. And come across as dated and very biased....to me anyway.....and that is your preogative.

I was thinking the same thing.

[outlaw]

the claim that more people are killed by baseball bats than by firearms, an assertion typically cited as a truism which is borne out by FBI statistics.

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

However, information gathered by the FBI does not support this claim. The Uniform Crime Reports made available on the "Crime in the U.S." section of the FBI's web site includes homicide data that breaks down killings by the types of weapons used. In 2011, the percentages for weapon types used in homicides throughout the U.S. were as follows:
Firearms: 67.8%
Knives or other cutting instruments: 13.4%
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.): 5.7%
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.): 3.9%
Other dangerous weapons: 9.2%

Read more at snopes.com: Gun Deaths vs. Baseball Bat Deaths (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp#yFCyIBeeqG5qp4kj.99)

Maybe if you break down firearms into rifles vs handguns it's true.

That's why I said rifles. And snopes is biased as h3!!. Even they have their agenda. Snopes is masterful at comparing apples and oranges, cherry picking data, etc. The same technique you used by posting a lot of "data" regarding gun violence versus other weapons, as if it refuted my assertion, which it did not.

[Taltarzac725]

That's why I said rifles. And snopes is biased as h3!!. Even they have their agenda. Snopes is masterful at comparing apples and oranges, cherry picking data, etc. The same technique you used by posting a lot of "data" regarding gun violence versus other weapons, as if it refuted my assertion, which it did not.

Snopes does have the bias of the couple who run it. They just research some urban myth or some other tidbit and post what they find.

Their Tinfoil Hat conspiracy nut board is where they put some e-mails they get which seem unbelievable to them. The peanut gallery they have on there then cut into the e-mail senders with whatever they think will get a big laugh out of the rest of the group. The original e-mail senders though are banned from getting onto this group to defend themselves. That's my problem with Snopes.com. I got dropped into their shark tank and ripped to pieces for years with no ability to fight back. As for who funds them-- I believe that they are funded by advertisers?

[Chi-Town]

I always get a kick out of people ripping Snopes. Even though they cite their sources in their critiques and the Annenberg Foundation finds them credible there is a cry of foul from those who disagree with the results.

[Carl in Tampa]

Definitely not to argue but I saw that Florida Statute 790.29 seems to prohibit paramilitary training. Isn't that still a law on the books?

Excellent question! That law was written to prohibit paramilitary training in Florida during the period that Cuban revolutionary groups were forming in Florida to prepare for paramilitary actions against the Castro regime.

It has nothing to do with either the official Organized Militia (primarily the branches of the Florida National Guard) or the official Unorganized Militia, which does not meet or train as a group.

Please understand, every able bodied citizen of Florida who is subject to military service is, in general, a member of the unorganized Florida Militia and is subject to conscription into active service at the direction of the governor. Remember also that the Selective Service (Draft) Law is still in effect; they are simply not drafting people into the military at present. Read the law again.

(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

It is probable that virtually no one in The Villages meets the criteria to be in the Unorganized Militia due to age, physical infirmity or prior military experience.

It is not something that you "join." If you meet the criteria in the law, you are in the Unorganized Militia. Groups who band together and call themselves militia groups are not the Unorganized Florida Militia. Such groups also are in violation of the Florida law previously cited if they conduct paramilitary training.

As to the purpose of my original post; as I indicated it was a follow-up to a closed thread regarding the Second Amendment in which it was apparent that many people do not understand the concept of the modern militia.

I didn't realize that it would be so difficult to understand my purpose.

[Challenger]

Excellent question! That law was written to prohibit paramilitary training in Florida during the period that Cuban revolutionary groups were forming in Florida to prepare for paramilitary actions against the Castro regime.

It has nothing to do with either the official Organized Militia (primarily the branches of the Florida National Guard) or the official Unorganized Militia, which does not meet or train as a group.

Please understand, every able bodied citizen of Florida who is subject to military service is, in general, a member of the unorganized Florida Militia and is subject to conscription into active service at the direction of the governor. Remember also that the Selective Service (Draft) Law is still in effect; they are simply not drafting people into the military at present. Read the law again.

(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

It is probable that virtually no one in The Villages meets the criteria to be in the Unorganized Militia due to age, physical infirmity or prior military experience.

It is not something that you "join." If you meet the criteria in the law, you are in the Unorganized Militia. Groups who band together and call themselves militia groups are not the Unorganized Florida Militia. Such groups also are in violation of the Florida law previously cited if they conduct paramilitary training.

As to the purpose of my original post; as I indicated it was a follow-up to a closed thread regarding the Second Amendment in which it was apparent that many people do not understand the concept of the modern militia.

I didn't realize that it would be so difficult to understand my purpose.

Many States have organized militias that are not the National Guard. Maryland had the State Guard . I was a Colonel(06) in the Maryland National Guard and served as the senior military advisor to the State Guard (1988-1989) I attended a national conference of State Guard units in El Paso in 1989 and about 15 states had their State Guard reps present. This units were strictly organized as state units with no Federal recognition. I have not kept abreast of the movement and don't know if these groups still exist.

[rubicon]

I do no see this topic of militia as a basis for a back and forth on the gun control issue nor do i see it has an avenue to strike fear in anyone.

I see the issue as one of realistic preparedness .

I am an avid viewer of the television series "Homeland". I watched the season premiere and as I watched my thoughts went to how we would react if instead of some middle east city all of these event were unfolding in The Villages. Our homes invaded our building destroyed our savings confiscated by the enemy our friend killed..........................

We have become too complacent too disengaged and so I for one was glad to read that each state does have a plan for readiness

[kittygilchrist]

Go Rubicon. I count on you to be my Secret Gister.

[outlaw]

I always get a kick out of people ripping Snopes. Even though they cite their sources in their critiques and the Annenberg Foundation finds them credible there is a cry of foul from those who disagree with the results.

I always get a kick out of people who think a site that agrees with them is so credible...Wikipedia anyone?

[tomwed]

i forgot

[tomwed]

i forgot

[outlaw]

I did look.
When I do research I look for sites that end in .org,.gov,.edu. I could not find those sites. I did find many opinionated and what appeared to be hate sites.
Why waste my time looking for information someone wants me to read? Why not just give me the link? Obviously I did not find the right site.

I got involved with the thread with the tripping breakers. I found out about eaton and mobile ham radios. I gave links and youtubes to share with others. Why would I learn something and give someone else motivational speech?

ps
Wikipedia is an acceptable source of information



If you believe it, great!

[Golf View]

My father was English. Since the British were kicked out of America by the original militia, would I be welcome to join? Could I ask for a statistical report on how many women, minorities and a breakout by religious beliefs so I can be sure this band of citizens represents all Americans?

In this day & age there is no one who can represent ALL Americans. We have been separated by wealth, race, class, ethnicity, age and on and on.

[golfing eagles]

In this day & age there is no one who can represent ALL Americans. We have been separated by wealth, race, class, ethnicity, age and on and on.

We have always been separated by those things. But in the past, our leaders spoke and acted in such a way as to unify us. Now they seem to want to divide us against ourselves. Remember what Lincoln said about a house divided.

[billethkid]

We have always been separated by those things. But in the past, our leaders spoke and acted in such a way as to unify us. Now they seem to want to divide us against ourselves. Remember what Lincoln said about a house divided.

Actually it is the elitist, political, special interest and minority groups that have something to gain by division that are constatntly in the spot light amplified by the 24/7 media.

Go to any public gathering or event and you will witness first hand what America is all about. They live, play and at times mourn together.

The problem is further nurtured by the silent majority that just simply will not put down the remote and demand better from those who pretend to represent us in Washington.

[rubicon]

My father was English. Since the British were kicked out of America by the original militia, would I be welcome to join? Could I ask for a statistical report on how many women, minorities and a breakout by religious beliefs so I can be sure this band of citizens represents all Americans?

Hi jimturner: since intent is difficult to express on this forum it may be best that I point out that my comments are intended only as a reminder. Recall, "The enemies of my enemies are my friends". Also Americans have shown in the past that despite our differences we can unite to protect this blessed nation of ours. I have no reason to doubt this has changed despite the rhetoric coming out of Washington.

[Jimturner]

Actually it is the elitist, political, special interest and minority groups that have something to gain by division that are constatntly in the spot light amplified by the 24/7 media.

Go to any public gathering or event and you will witness first hand what America is all about. They live, play and at times mourn together.

The problem is further nurtured by the silent majority that just simply will not put down the remote and demand better from those who pretend to represent us in Washington.

To be honest BTK, I don't often pay much attention to your posts, but for me, you nailed with this one. Yea to BTK.

[kittygilchrist]

Actually it is the elitist, political, special interest and minority groups that have something to gain by division that are constatntly in the spot light amplified by the 24/7 media.

Go to any public gathering or event and you will witness first hand what America is all about. They live, play and at times mourn together.

The problem is further nurtured by the silent majority that just simply will not put down the remote and demand better from those who pretend to represent us in Washington.

Well I read the post that said you nailed this thing so I reread it and I think I must be an elitist and special interest person and political person and also a minority of several sorts. Single, female, Cherokee AND Gator fan...and a plethora of other stuff.

I want to know what I have to gain. As I am seldom silent and almost never say anything most people agree with, I want to get whatever you were thinking I should get.

[Jimturner]

Well I read the post that said you nailed this thing so I reread it and I think I must be an elitist and special interest person and political person and also a minority of several sorts. Single, female, Cherokee AND Gator fan...and a plethora of other stuff.

I want to know what I have to gain. As I am seldom silent and almost never say anything most people agree with, I want to get whatever you were thinking I should get.

Best post I have read where someone became one's own accuser, prosecutor and judge, and was found guilty as charged. You go girl!

[billethkid]

Well I read the post that said you nailed this thing so I reread it and I think I must be an elitist and special interest person and political person and also a minority of several sorts. Single, female, Cherokee AND Gator fan...and a plethora of other stuff.

I want to know what I have to gain. As I am seldom silent and almost never say anything most people agree with, I want to get whatever you were thinking I should get.

Actually my point is rather simple. There can be individual preferences/opinions/spoken/unspoken/right or wrong/left or right.

However there is no need to have a nation divided because of those.

To each his own.
United we stand as patriotic citizens of the greatest country on the planet....USA!

[golfing eagles]

United we stand as patriotic citizens of the greatest country on the planet....USA!

:bigbow:

[kittygilchrist]

Best post I have read where someone became one's own accuser, prosecutor and judge, and was found guilty as charged. You go girl!

Thank you!

[Carl in Tampa]

Why does he not just come out and say "Florida has a militia and it is legal....if you want to join let us know"? And then state why we should join.

It is vague because he doesn't state any particular reason for the post other than to say it's legal and been around a while. No different than making a post that I hunt with a license and people have been doing it for ages....it's vague and meant to sort of educate...so you like his post...all that means is that you are or could be friends...

There are times when I despair regarding the reading comprehension of the general public.

Did you read the law? You cannot "join" the Unorganized Florida Militia. If you meet the criteria described in the law that I quoted, you are a member; if you do not meet the criteria you cannot "join."

I did state the reason for the post. It is because so many people who posted on the thread that turned into a discussion of the Second Amendment seemed to believe that the concept of a Militia, mentioned in the Second Amendment, was obsolete and was not currently applicable. I was writing to correct that misapprehension.

Another poster said this: "Thank you. As long as the interpretation of freedom and liberty comes from all sexes, races and religions, count me in. However, I fear some malitias get their start from a select group of men sitting at the counter of local watering holes. My hope is that I am wrong."

Again, read the law. People may band together and call themselves a militia, but they are not the lawful Unorganized Florida Militia. Further, if they participate in Paramilitary Training they are in violation of Florida law.

Incidentally, this same Florida law applies to groups who might not call themselves militia, but who represent a particularly militant religious group. This has great relevance to current world conditions.

Readers, don't make the mistake of assigning hidden motives to what I write. I say what I mean and I mean what I say, with no hidden agenda. I am reminded of the time on a TV talk show when George Will was making a point and Sam Donaldson interrupted him and finished his sentence. George Will then said, "Sam, please don't finish my sentences for me. I am an expert on what I intend to say."

:posting:

[dirtbanker]

so you like his post...all that means is that you are or could be friends...

So you don't like his post...all that means is that you are or could be enemies...