Open house.....accident

[snowbird22154]

Always use this Site for help and hopefully someone can refer me to someone....

This all began last week when my "neighbor" and his wife went to an "Open House" that was listed "By Owner" here in The Villages. My neighbor who knows little of computers told me that as they got out of their car they walked into the house and a person was sitting on the back porch reading the newspaper and so they were told to go ahead and look around.

To make a long story short my neighbor and his wife walked out into the garage and his wife "neglected" to see the "2nd" step down and so fell and shattered her ankle. He asked the person if he could back his Golf Cart into the garage to take his wife to the Doctor and was told to go ahead and so he backed his Golf Cart into garage and went directly to Emergency at Villages hospital and as his wife had some sort of Obamacare plan would not pay and so the surgeon was called in and performed surgery putting a plate and screws into her ankle and requiring her to stay at least 3 days before she was able to move and go home to which my neighbor had to "immediately" write a check for $15,000 and (I assume) pay the rest for surgery etc.

Anyway he went back to the "Open House" and all signs were taken down and after talking again about what "Insurance" he had was told.... "DON'T COME BACK HERE AGAIN AS WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE AND WILL TAKE CARE? OF YOU IF YOU EVER BOTHER US AGAIN" to which my neighbor is completely lost as "how" to get information on his "Home Owners" Insurance ( assuming he has any) and is at a loss of finding an attorney as he has talked to a couple and none would take the case.

I admit....he ( my neighbor ) "should have" called an ambulance and gone "directly" to the hospital but at the time was not aware of how bad the situation was and therefore didn't do as he "might should have" as well as I don't think he even made a police report of it but is in shock as to having to pay out all this money and not be able to get ANY information as to if these people had "Insurance" so as to help him with expenses.

He was "threatened" by the (Haitian? owners) as it was "By Owner" as to "Do Not Come Back" as to asking any questions soooooo I am hoping someone out there In "Talk Of The Villages" can refer "him" to an attorney or offer some type of help in "How"...to get out of the expenses that was
caused by neglect of not marking the step or at least following them around while they were "inspecting" the Open House.

Just my 2 cents as to trying to help my neighbor. Don't need to hear any "criticism" but only looking for someone that might suggest a way to get thru this.

Thanks :pray:

[Barefoot]

Anyway he went back to the "Open House" and all signs were taken down and after talking again about what "Insurance" he had was told.... "DON'T COME BACK HERE AGAIN AS WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE AND WILL TAKE CARE? OF YOU IF YOU EVER BOTHER US AGAIN" to which my neighbor is completely lost as "how" to get information on his "Home Owners" Insurance ( assuming he has any) and is at a loss of finding an attorney as he has talked to a couple and none would take the case. You said your friend has talked to a couple of attorneys and none would take the case.
Perhaps the reason they refused to handle your friend's case is important in understanding what liability the home owners may or may not have.

[CassieInVa]

Well I thought homeowners insurance always kicked in if someone was injured on your premises. That being said, I don't think it's unusual that someone did not walk you around during the open house. And I don't think it's unusual that the steps were not marked as I have never seen any marked. I'm not an attorney and don't really have any insight one way or the other. Did the attorneys you contacted give you any reason as to why they would not take the case? And I'm confused because you said that you went directly to the hospital but then you are said you should have gone directly to the hospital?

[redwitch]

Sounds like the big issue would be proving the injury occurred at the open house. If the homeowner refuses to cooperate, it really becomes a he said/he said situation. You might ask your friend to check with neighbors of the open house to see if anyone saw him wheeling the cart into the garage and helping his wife into the cart. Without witnesses, there's just not enough proof to go after someone.

I hope his wife recovers quickly. I can only imagine how painful this is.

[village dreamer]

you got 20k attorneys in the state of florida.............one of them will take the case.

[golfing eagles]

I think we need some of the attorneys on TOTV to chime in. But here are some amateur musings:

1) I'm not clear that the owner has liability JUST because someone is injured on his premises--I believe you would have to show negligence in some way. I don't think there is any law that requires a homeowner to mark stairs in private homes, even for an "open house" My understanding would be based on the principle that the "reasonably prudent" individual, in touring a strange home, would exercise a greater degree of caution in navigating around. This alone could be why 2 lawyers declined the case. That and the amount of $$$ involved may not be worthwhile unless they can tack on "pain and suffering"

2) I agree some lawyer will take the case, it probably won't be F. Lee Bailey. But sometimes just a letter from an attorney is enough to get the homeowner to cooperate

3) The threat is a whole other matter. I believe that was specific enough to be reportable to law enforcement

Lawyers out there--help!

[dbussone]

One of the first things I would do is go online to the county website. From there you can determine who the legal owners are. My next step would be to pay an attorney to send the owners a letter notifying them that they are being sued. That should shake some coconuts out of their tree. Most normal people, at that point, will contact their homeowners insurance company.

As far as "we know where you live"' my response would be I know where you live and now the police will know also.

[Taltarzac725]

Types of Slip and Fall Injury Claims Covered by Homeowner's Insurance - AllLaw.com (http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/types-slip-fall-claims-covered-homeowners-insurance.html)

This might help out.

I am trained as a law librarian not really as an attorney. I am not licensed to practice law in Florida in other words.

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/slip-and-fall-accidents/premises-liability.html This is a PA attorney's page. There should be a lot of Florida attorneys who practice in tort law who have similar web-sites. I do not know anything about this FL firm, just using it as an example-- Proving Fault in a Florida Slip-and-Fall Case | Injury Blog (http://www.legallypinklaw.com/Blog/2015/June/Proving-Fault-in-a-Florida-Slip-and-Fall-Case.aspx)

You can go onto the Sumter County Property Appraiser web-site or whatever county here in the Villages this is and get homeowner information if you know the address or even the vicinity of the address to type into the Search feature. Sumter County Property Appraiser (http://www.sumterpa.com/GIS/)

Here's some information about the Criminal Threat part of your neighbor's story-- Criminal Threats (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/criminal-threats.htm) I do think that they should contact the police in whatever part of the Villages this is in be it Sumter, Marion, Lady Lake, Lake County, etc. There may not be enough proof to do anything but have a report taken down. http://www.sumtercountysheriff.org/

[outlaw]

Most likely the lawyers did not take the case on a contingency basis. I'm sure, if the person was willing to pony up $5,000 for the lawyers' time, they probably would have accepted it immediately. Why would the injured party think that it is the homeowners responsibility for their injury? They probably don't. But hey, why not sue and get somebody else to pay for your mistake.

[golfing eagles]

Types of Slip and Fall Injury Claims Covered by Homeowner's Insurance - AllLaw.com (http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/types-slip-fall-claims-covered-homeowners-insurance.html)

This might help out.

I am trained as a law librarian not really as an attorney. I am not licensed to practice law in Florida in other words.

https://www.edgarsnyder.com/slip-and-fall-accidents/premises-liability.html This is a PA attorney's page. There should be a lot of Florida attorneys who practice in tort law who have similar web-sites. I do not know anything about this FL firm, just using it as an example-- Proving Fault in a Florida Slip-and-Fall Case | Injury Blog (http://www.legallypinklaw.com/Blog/2015/June/Proving-Fault-in-a-Florida-Slip-and-Fall-Case.aspx)

You can go onto the Sumter County Property Appraiser web-site or whatever county here in the Villages this is and get homeowner information if you know the address or even the vicinity of the address to type into the Search feature. Sumter County Property Appraiser (http://www.sumterpa.com/GIS/)

From your link:

"Slip-and-falls are accidents that occur when an individual loses their footing, falls and is injured on someone else’s property. Typically the injured individual can pursue compensation if they were harmed due to the property owner’s negligence.

There are generally three types of slip-and-fall accidents that can occur.
1.Slip-and-fall: slipping on something slippery, such as water, resulting in a fall
2.Trip-and-fall: tripping over an object or uneven ground that should not have been in the way
3.Step-and-fall: falling due to sudden drop or hole in the person’s path

Under Florida State premises liability law, it is up to the property owner, business or landowner to keep their property in a reasonably safe condition. When damage occurs on their property, it is up to them to fix issues in a timely manner. Should they choose not to fix these problems, this is considered negligence and can make the owner liable for any injuries that occur due to these issues. "

So it appears that just sustaining an injury on another's property is probably not actionable unless negligence can be proven

[Taltarzac725]

From your link:

"Slip-and-falls are accidents that occur when an individual loses their footing, falls and is injured on someone else’s property. Typically the injured individual can pursue compensation if they were harmed due to the property owner’s negligence.

There are generally three types of slip-and-fall accidents that can occur.
1.Slip-and-fall: slipping on something slippery, such as water, resulting in a fall
2.Trip-and-fall: tripping over an object or uneven ground that should not have been in the way
3.Step-and-fall: falling due to sudden drop or hole in the person’s path

Under Florida State premises liability law, it is up to the property owner, business or landowner to keep their property in a reasonably safe condition. When damage occurs on their property, it is up to them to fix issues in a timely manner. Should they choose not to fix these problems, this is considered negligence and can make the owner liable for any injuries that occur due to these issues. "

So it appears that just sustaining an injury on another's property is probably not actionable unless negligence can be proven

I would ask what the lighting in the garage where the fall happened was like? And other factors like were there obstructions in the garage and so on?

I remember various cases that involved premises liability and poor lighting conditions. It probably would still be he said--she said. The best thing to do in these kind of situations is call the police and a lawyer immediately as the evidence goes sour and the homeowner can fix things up in the meantime.

Here is another FL lawyer site. I do not know these lawyers personally though. Tampa Premises Liability Attorney | St. Petersburg Florida Slip & Fall Injury Lawyer | Trip & Fall, Negligent Security Hillsborough County (http://www.barkerrodemsandcook.com/Personal-Injury-Litigation/Premises-Liability.shtml)

[Sable99]

One of the first things I would do is go online to the county website. From there you can determine who the legal owners are. My next step would be to pay an attorney to send the owners a letter notifying them that they are being sued. That should shake some coconuts out of their tree. Most normal people, at that point, will contact their homeowners insurance company.

As far as "we know where you live"' my response would be I know where you live and now the police will know also.

I agree that they should search the county website to determine who the legal owners are.

[Sable99]

Sounds like the big issue would be proving the injury occurred at the open house. If the homeowner refuses to cooperate, it really becomes a he said/he said situation. You might ask your friend to check with neighbors of the open house to see if anyone saw him wheeling the cart into the garage and helping his wife into the cart. Without witnesses, there's just not enough proof to go after someone.

I hope his wife recovers quickly. I can only imagine how painful this is.

I agree that since they didn't call an ambulance or get a police report that it is a he said/he said situation. It will be hard to prove that the accident happened there.

I also hope his wife recovers quickly.

[justjim]

One hesitates to comment without knowing all the facts in a case like you just described. I'm sorry for your neighbors accident and subsequent lack of cooperation from the homeowner.

Perhaps a call and visit to "Seniors vs. Crime" might help. At least they may be able to "steer" you and the neighbor in a proper direction.

BTW, Also I would pursue whatever insurance company the neighbor had under the affordable care Act---never heard of insurance (that was in force) not covering an accident as described. The hospital or doctor's may not accept the insurance "up front" but that doesn't necessary mean that the insurance wouldn't pay the medical bills to the neighbor.

[Chi-Town]

No ambulance, no police report, no health insurance (even though there allegedly was was), and nasty threatening Hatians. And a garage in The Villages with two steps. Your "neighbors" sure had a rough time.

[Taltarzac725]

One hesitates to comment without knowing all the facts in a case like you just described. I'm sorry for your neighbors accident and subsequent lack of cooperation from the homeowner.

Perhaps a call and visit to "Seniors vs. Crime" might help. At least they may be able to "steer" you and the neighbor in a proper direction.

BTW, Also I would pursue whatever insurance company the neighbor had under the affordable care Act---never heard of insurance (that was in force) not covering an accident as described. The hospital or doctor's may not accept the insurance "up front" but that doesn't necessary mean that the insurance wouldn't pay the medical bills to the neighbor.

I have been dealing with trying to get insurance that will meet the ObamaCare requirements but if you call the ObamaCare people like I did last week they do connect you with cheaper group policies that have all kinds of limitations. You do have some kind of medical insurance but it does not meet the Obamacare requirements for preventing the tax penalty. I am still busy looking for adequate medical insurance to avoid the tax penalty. But if this neighbor of the OP has had similar problems with the ObamaCare people it might not cover this kind of accident.

[golfing eagles]

I have been dealing with trying to get insurance that will meet the ObamaCare requirements but if you call the ObamaCare people like I did last week they do connect you with cheaper group policies that have all kinds of limitations. You do have some kind of medical insurance but it does not meet the Obamacare requirements for preventing the tax penalty. I am still busy looking for adequate medical insurance to avoid the tax penalty. But if this neighbor of the OP has had similar problems with the ObamaCare people it might not cover this kind of accident.

They may have had a policy with a high deductible and double the out of pocket maximum for using out of network physicians. Most will cover an emergency, but they might not cover the surgery, subject to the deductible. Interestingly, if this was a tri-malleolar fracture, most orthopedists consider it an URGENT matter. But does the insurance co consider it an EMERGENT matter?

[Bjeanj]

///

[Chi-Town]

They may have had a policy with a high deductible and double the out of pocket maximum for using out of network physicians. Most will cover an emergency, but they might not cover the surgery, subject to the deductible. Interestingly, if this was a tri-malleolar fracture, most orthopedists consider it an URGENT matter. But does the insurance co consider it an EMERGENT matter?
Trimalleolar and bimalleolar fractures are unstable and require surgery. Even a basic Obamacare based policy would cover it to its limit. BTW, saw a few of these in my Zimmer days.

[golfing eagles]

Trimalleolar and bimalleolar fractures are unstable and require surgery. Even a basic Obamacare based policy would cover it to its limit. BTW, saw a few of these in my Zimmer days.

Which, subject to deductible and out of network penalty could be $15K out of pocket.

[borjo]

They need to work with their own insurance company I would think. How can insurance not pay for surgery to end a broken bone?

[golfing eagles]

They need to work with their own insurance company I would think. How can insurance not pay for surgery to end a broken bone?

Quite easily--the devil is in the details

[Shadow8IA]

Most policies have a $5000 medical payment that is used to pay for any accidents regardless of fault. After that you have to prove they were negligent. No railing might be enough to get the rest paid. They could contact their homeowners for info.

[John_W]

If the homeowner is sued and a judgement is levied against them, they'll be unable to sell their home. It would put a cloud on the title, which a perspective buyer would find out about when a title search it done. So you sort of have them over a barrel with a threat of a suit, when really it's an insurance matter.

I would try to just get an attorney to send them a letter stating these facts and to avoid this happening, please provide their insurer name and details. It seems one of the lawyers who advertise in the local newspaper would be able to provide this service for a hours fee or whatever. Probably contacting Seniors Vs Crime could put you in contact with an attorney.

[Fraugoofy]

Always use this Site for help and hopefully someone can refer me to someone....

This all began last week when my "neighbor" and his wife went to an "Open House" that was listed "By Owner" here in The Villages. My neighbor who knows little of computers told me that as they got out of their car they walked into the house and a person was sitting on the back porch reading the newspaper and so they were told to go ahead and look around.

To make a long story short my neighbor and his wife walked out into the garage and his wife "neglected" to see the "2nd" step down and so fell and shattered her ankle. He asked the person if he could back his Golf Cart into the garage to take his wife to the Doctor and was told to go ahead and so he backed his Golf Cart into garage and went directly to Emergency at Villages hospital and as his wife had some sort of Obamacare plan would not pay and so the surgeon was called in and performed surgery putting a plate and screws into her ankle and requiring her to stay at least 3 days before she was able to move and go home to which my neighbor had to "immediately" write a check for $15,000 and (I assume) pay the rest for surgery etc.

Anyway he went back to the "Open House" and all signs were taken down and after talking again about what "Insurance" he had was told.... "DON'T COME BACK HERE AGAIN AS WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE AND WILL TAKE CARE? OF YOU IF YOU EVER BOTHER US AGAIN" to which my neighbor is completely lost as "how" to get information on his "Home Owners" Insurance ( assuming he has any) and is at a loss of finding an attorney as he has talked to a couple and none would take the case.

I admit....he ( my neighbor ) "should have" called an ambulance and gone "directly" to the hospital but at the time was not aware of how bad the situation was and therefore didn't do as he "might should have" as well as I don't think he even made a police report of it but is in shock as to having to pay out all this money and not be able to get ANY information as to if these people had "Insurance" so as to help him with expenses.

He was "threatened" by the (Haitian? owners) as it was "By Owner" as to "Do Not Come Back" as to asking any questions soooooo I am hoping someone out there In "Talk Of The Villages" can refer "him" to an attorney or offer some type of help in "How"...to get out of the expenses that was
caused by neglect of not marking the step or at least following them around while they were "inspecting" the Open House.

Just my 2 cents as to trying to help my neighbor. Don't need to hear any "criticism" but only looking for someone that might suggest a way to get thru this.

Thanks [emoji14]ray:
1. What does the neighbor knowing little about computers have anything to do with this story?

2. What relevance is it that the home owners are Haitian?

3. I am sorry for the pain your neighbor's wife suffered and hope she heals quickly.

[snowbird22154]

Thanks for your Comments and suggestions....

I have turned "This Article" over to my neighbors as they have to take
the "innovative" and "follow" some of your suggestions as I would certainly be beating
a path to get this resolved while others may not have the
"get it done" attitude that I have

Not sure what else to do as I felt "ya'll" could help, which you have.

Although I'd like to help all I can do is so much.... Then it's up to them

Thank you again :beer3: