Sink Hole Problems?

[Plexer2]

Does anyone know if there have been any documented sink hole problems in The Villages? I understand Insurance Companies now sell sink hole insurance for an additional premium. I suggest the 5000 plus members of TOTV toss in $100 to start our own sink hole protection fund. That would raise a cool $500,000 to start the fund off.

[thegreenerside]

The Village of Winifred has 4 or 5 homes that are sitting on sink holes. I have been watching over the past several weeks as crews drill holes under the homes and fill with concrete.

[Plexer2]

Thanks for the info greeneride. I will watch the Daily Sun for photos and reports on those homes!

[jeffy]

Thanks for the info greeneride. I will watch the Daily Sun for photos and reports on those homes!

Dont hold your breath about seeing anything in the Sun :smiley: I live in Winifred and am aware of 3 homes, all within 100 feet of each other that have had issues. Luckily they are all fairly far from me.

jeffy

[Skip]

There have been many sink holes in TV. Most notably in Marion county where one street continues to have major problems. Large sink holes have developed on golf courses too. It'll be very interesting to see how the massive Freedom Point fares when it's built. Living in this area, you are always at peril for hurricanes and sink holes. The insurance is really necessary. The Daily Sun would never report on "the SH word"!

Skip

[tonycirocco]

Of course there are sink holes here.

They can occur anywhere in central and north FL.

They will not always be reported in the Sun...

They are not really that big a deal...hole in the ground.

Tony

[The Shadow]

Bump

[Sunshine Mary]

wow you learn so much on this site.I did not know about Sink Holes here .

[CarGuys]

I like the co- opt insurance idea! I would guess it is very expensive for home repair and concrete pumping.

Is this because we are drawing down the water tables?

I am asking about this Tuesday when we call for our home insurance due at closing.

Any feedback on cost would help us newbies on TOTV

Herv

[CaptJohn]

They are not really that big a deal...hole in the ground.



Unless your whole house, cars and boats fall into it. And maybe if you're in the house at the time.

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/galleries/sinkholes/index.php

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/geologictopics/sinkhole.htm

http://www.gotsinkhole.com/

[RiteLucky]

I just bought my house the end of May and my realtor told me to be certain to get sinkhole coverage. One company denied sinkhole coverage so I had to change to a 2nd company that finally approved my house. After mentioning it, my neighbors told me there had been a sinkhole in the street in front of our houses and many more in The Villages (I live in Belle Aire). They were put in a hotel until repairs could be finished. The hole was huge and apparently came within 6 feet of the front of my house. I wouldn't be without insurance here!!

[Russ_Boston]

Wow, bumped a 2008 post.

There have been many other threads about sinkholes here on TOTV - try the search feature above.

[Dirigo]

I wouldn't be without insurance here!!

we have:

Homeowners
Flood
Sink hole
golf cart
Auto
Umbrella
Health
Dental
Vision
Long term care
Term life
Identity theft

I *never* heard anyone say after a serious incident "I wish I hadn't bought so much insurance".

[starflyte1]

I am changing insurance companies and the new one requires a sinkhole inspection. The inspection will be done Tuesday, and the inspector will inspect both inside and outside the house for cracks. The agent said that there were two "failures" recently. I would not want to be without the coverage.

[rubicon]

Wow, bumped a 2008 post.

There have been many other threads about sinkholes here on TOTV - try the search feature above.

Russ what does bump mean and how is it used?

Also the OP suggest a pooling by villagers. Fact is sink hole problems are a very very expensive issue and the reason why isnurance companies are getting tighter and tighter with coverage. In addition homeowners are faced with what defines a "sink hole" creating a long and expensive debate with insurance carriers.

[Russ_Boston]

I was just referring to the fact that The Shadow resurrected the thread by putting a 'bump' post out. (For any newbie, a bump is just a way of saying nothing but it puts the thread back with a new times-stamp so people will see it again.

There is no reason to bump this thread. We have numerous other threads about sink hole insurance. BTW my sinkhole coverage for 2012 only went up a couple of bucks from 2011.

[The Shadow]

I was just referring to the fact that The Shadow resurrected the thread by putting a 'bump' post out. (For any newbie, a bump is just a way of saying nothing but it puts the thread back with a new times-stamp so people will see it again.

There is no reason to bump this thread. We have numerous other threads about sink hole insurance. BTW my sinkhole coverage for 2012 only went up a couple of bucks from 2011.

If you don�t like the one I bumped why don�t you bump one that you like so the people that are looking for information can find it?

See people Russ does not want to acknowledge that sink holes exist because the reality is viewed as a negative.

[Russ_Boston]

I would think any homeowner in TV knows that they can exist since the insurance company puts in an amount for coverage. At least mine did and I didn't ask them to. So even if I hadn't known about them I would have when I looked over my insurance coverage.

You must have some reason to bump a very old thread. I would just like it, for once, for you to bump a thread that wasn't just about the negative possible side of TV. That would be refreshing.

[The Shadow]

I would think any homeowner in TV knows that they can exist since the insurance company puts in an amount for coverage. At least mine did and I didn't ask them to. So even if I hadn't known about them I would have when I looked over my insurance coverage.

You must have some reason to bump a very old thread. I would just like it, for once, for you to bump a thread that wasn't just about the negative possible side of TV. That would be refreshing.

Because people were looking for information on sink holes.

Post #6 yesterday buy SgtJohn a new guy with 12 posts said,

Is there a big problem with Sink Holes in TV ? I hadn't heard of any problems.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45736

Plus sink holes appeared in other post. I hope this information helped SgtJohn. I think this should clear things up for you to Russ. I�m refreshed are you?

Then post #6 Sunshine Mary with 38 post said,

wow you learn so much on this site.I did not know about Sink Holes here .

I think she appreciated what I did.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16884

[graciegirl]

I said it and I erased it and I feel better.

[Moderator]

OK, let's get back to any questions or discussions about sinkholes in The Villages.

[Russ_Boston]

OK, let's get back to any questions or discussions about sinkholes in The Villages.



Ok back to sinkholes - Yes they exist.
And by the way we have hurricanes every now and then.
And it's humid in the summer.
And we have a few nights below freezing.

Oh guess what -It's Florida!

But if you are concerned with sinkholes you should contact your insurer and have them detail your coverage. It's not so big of an issue that you should consider not moving to TV (at least IMHO). And it's not a big coverup by anyone.

[Larry Wilson]

This area of Florida has many sinkholes. There are more sink holes in here than any one of us know. A whole row of homes had their air conditioning pipes go bad.
The pipes had to be relocated to the attics and run down the back of the homes to their air conditioner on the ground. Also there are cracks in the floors and walls. Sinkhole damage.
Like so many things, it isn't a problem until it happens to you.

[The Shadow]

Ok back to sinkholes - Yes they exist.
And by the way we have hurricanes every now and then.
And it's humid in the summer.
And we have a few nights below freezing.

Oh guess what -It's Florida!

But if you are concerned with sinkholes you should contact your insurer and have them detail your coverage. It's not so big of an issue that you should consider not moving to TV (at least IMHO). And it's not a big coverup by anyone.
You forgot one thing, �Florida�s most friendly home town�.

[SunCity]

You forgot one thing, �Florida�s most friendly home town�.

i don't know of any new community that hasn't had a minor sinkhole problem. someone said something about getting insurance.

[Bill32]

You may be able to get sink hole ins, on a brand new home but on my 6 year home I inquired with Geico ( my carrier) and another company, and was told it is very hard to get. You have to pay for an inspector to check your home and the area and homes around it. If there are any settling cracks ( my home is block and stucco) you will be declined and still have to pay the inspection fee. I told the agent that I have some small settling cracks in the garage floor and a few on the exterior block walls........he said no way they would insure.
If you check with TV building and warrantee dept. they will tell you this is normal and of no concern. So the moral is to get it on a new home and and never let it laps!
If any one knows of an insurance company that writes a homeowners policy with out trying to deny you let me know.

[Bill32]

Does anyone know if there have been any documented sink hole problems in The Villages? I understand Insurance Companies now sell sink hole insurance for an additional premium. I suggest the 5000 plus members of TOTV toss in $100 to start our own sink hole protection fund. That would raise a cool $500,000 to start the fund off.

Good idea! I would be interested.

[red tail]

my cyv is 15 years old. i bought it last year. insured it with st johns with sinkhole ins...no prob

[Russ_Boston]

Good idea! I would be interested.

The legal implications of starting your own insurance fund are daunting. Not to mention financially dangerous to anyone who is willing to be the founder. I wouldn't touch that with a 50 foot pole!

[The Shadow]

You may be able to get sink hole ins, on a brand new home but on my 6 year home I inquired with Geico ( my carrier) and another company, and was told it is very hard to get. You have to pay for an inspector to check your home and the area and homes around it. If there are any settling cracks ( my home is block and stucco) you will be declined and still have to pay the inspection fee. I told the agent that I have some small settling cracks in the garage floor and a few on the exterior block walls........he said no way they would insure.
If you check with TV building and warrantee dept. they will tell you this is normal and of no concern. So the moral is to get it on a new home and and never let it laps!
If any one knows of an insurance company that writes a homeowners policy with out trying to deny you let me know.

If they are going to inspect the homes around the home to be insured I think they need a search warrant.

[Russ_Boston]

If they are going to inspect the homes around the home to be insured I think they need a search warrant.

Huh? The new/current homeowner provides permission to inspect for new insurance. Happens all the time. I used to do some for insurance companies part-time.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Bill32, our homeowners coverage was underwritten by Security First Insurance. They required a sinkhole inspection prior to committing to providing that piece of coverage when we got the policy late last year. The inspection was done by a third-party organization that specializes in such things - SDII http://www.sdii-global.com/sdii-dnn/ . The insurance company split the cost of the inspection with us so our out-of-pocket for the inspection was $75 - and this 'split' was mentioned up-front and voluntarily by our insurance agent.....no arm-twisting on our part. Seemed fair to me! Our house passed muster and we got the coverage. If there were issues found or if the company felt there was reason based on whatever to deny coverage, I guess that would be their prerogative to decline providing the sinkhole coverage.

Our insurance agent told me earlier this fall that more and more companies are moving towards requiring inspections prior to underwriting any sinkhole coverage for their policyholders.

Bill :)

[The Shadow]

Huh? The new/current homeowner provides permission to inspect for new insurance. Happens all the time. I used to do some for insurance companies part-time.
Try again...

If they are going to inspect the homes around the home to be insured I think they need a search warrant.

[graciegirl]

http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/hydrology/sinkholes/

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/11100/f11158/f11158.htm

[784caroline]

They can easily do a "record" check of homes around the home. Most if not all insurance companies enter a data base of certain types of claims they paid out and the dollar amount. If there was sinkhole claim paid on your street, neighborhood or zip code they would know.

Also PLEASE check your policy for there are 2 types of SINKHOLE coverage and they are vastly different in both coverage and cost.

SINKHOLE LOSS....Gradual settlement or weaking of the earth supporting your property including structural damage to the building or foundation caused by gradual settlement. (THIS is the most common form of sinkhole loss in The VIllages and is the most expensive)

CATASTROPHIC Ground Cover Collapse....THis is also known as sinkhole insurance but it is the "ABRUPT" collapse of ground cover that requires a structure to be condemed and ordered to be vacated by government authorities. This does happen in The Villages but not as frequent as a gradual settlement.

[buggyone]

Shadow, I do not think anyone is talking of an interior inspection of surrounding houses but an exterior inspection is a prudent idea.

What would you do if you saw that on your property? Run them off with your water hose?

[CarGuys]

Also PLEASE check your policy for there are 2 types of SINKHOLE coverage and they are vastly different in both coverage and cost.

SINKHOLE LOSS....Gradual settlement or weaking of the earth supporting your property including structural damage to the building or foundation caused by gradual settlement. (THIS is the most common form of sinkhole loss in The VIllages and is the most expensive)

CATASTROPHIC Ground Cover Collapse....THis is also known as sinkhole insurance but it is the "ABRUPT" collapse of ground cover that requires a structure to be condemed and ordered to be vacated by government authorities. This does happen in The Villages but not as frequent as a gradual settlement.[/QUOTE]

Great Information thanks

[CarGuys]

Do all of you on line now have the coverage for settlement problems. I have heard of this. One day you can't ope windows or tile cracks drywall cracks appear.

I seems sink hole insurance is as important as hurricane or wind insurance?

[The Shadow]

Shadow, I do not think anyone is talking of an interior inspection of surrounding houses but an exterior inspection is a prudent idea.

What would you do if you saw that on your property? Run them off with your water hose?
Suppose the City Farm Ins. Co. is checking out the house four doors a way to possible sell them a new policy they come in my CYV yard thru my privacy fence gate at the front of my yard, a private area, they look for cracks in my CYV. I already have insurance with City Farm Ins. Co. and they find a crack, one that does not concern me but they cancel my insurance or refuse to renew it in fear that I will file a claim and the homeowner four doors a way does not get insurance because of my crack. I do not want to risk my insurance.

Interior inspection, I think it was stated they inspect the garage floor.

But that does not answer you question, 12 or 20 gage or a 38 what ever is close at hand, run off no that�s trespassing. 911

[jblum315]

There are sink holes in south Florida too. In Coral Gables and Kendall that I know of from personal experience

[rubicon]

I was just referring to the fact that The Shadow resurrected the thread by putting a 'bump' post out. (For any newbie, a bump is just a way of saying nothing but it puts the thread back with a new times-stamp so people will see it again.

There is no reason to bump this thread. We have numerous other threads about sink hole insurance. BTW my sinkhole coverage for 2012 only went up a couple of bucks from 2011.

Russ Thank you

[rubicon]

A poster made mention of self-insuring for sink hole. Many states ahve made attempts to provide n insurance pool for their residents (auto, property) and inevitable it fails because it becomes too expensive. Repairing sink holes is a very expensive understaking and the reason why insurers are tightening up and raise premiums. They had a surge of sink hole claims in the Tampa/St Petersburg area.

[Carla B]

Are cracked slabs only caused by sinkholes or can there be other reasons in this part of Florida for the slab to crack? If an insurance company looks at a crack do they automatically blame it on sinkholes?

I thought it was the nature of concrete slabs to eventually settle and suffer cracks. We had a house in Texas built on a slab that cracked due to a huge oak tree consuming massive amounts of water underground. It wasn't a sinkhole.

[CaptJohn]

I thought it was the nature of concrete slabs to eventually settle and suffer cracks. We had a house in Texas built on a slab that cracked due to a huge oak tree consuming massive amounts of water underground. It wasn't a sinkhole.

:agree: This is very true. Concrete cracks on it's own. That's why they put in expansion joints but that still won't stop them all.

[CarGuys]

Great Capt-

I have a whole row of Oaks in my back yard! Maybe it good I'm at the bottom of the hill and water runs down to them?

[B. Johnson]

I just added Sinkhole insurance to my home policy; an inspection was required (can't recall the cost) but the actual policy cost $156.

[boobear51751]

You best make sure you have sink hole insurance if you weren't aware of them here in The Villages. They happen mostly at the north end, but can pop up just about any place. Poof there goes your house.

[pjolson]

:cus:

We just found out this week that our insurer (Security First) will no longer write sinkhole coverage in Marion County although they will continue to cover catastrophic ground collapse. In other words, when our homeowners policy comes up for renewal in March, it won't include sinkhole coverage. When I asked our agent about this, she stated that all eight companies she deals with are no longer providing sinkhole coverage for homes in Marion County because of extensive losses in the northern portion of the county.

Has anyone else run into this same issue? If so, has anyone found a solution?

[CaptJohn]

:cus:

We just found out this week that our insurer (Security First) will no longer write sinkhole coverage in Marion County although they will continue to cover catastrophic ground collapse.

So what's the difference between a sinkhole and ground collapse?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

So what's the difference between a sinkhole and ground collapse?

This should help explain the difference:

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/geologictopics/sinkhole/sinkhole_2008.pdf

Bill :)

[rubicon]

:cus:

We just found out this week that our insurer (Security First) will no longer write sinkhole coverage in Marion County although they will continue to cover catastrophic ground collapse. In other words, when our homeowners policy comes up for renewal in March, it won't include sinkhole coverage. When I
asked our agent about this, she stated that all eight companies she deals with are no longer providing sinkhole coverage for homes in Marion County because of extensive losses in the northern portion of the county.

Has anyone else run into this same issue? If so, has anyone found a solution?

pjolson: My Homeowner policy took big jumps for two consecutive years. I called and had a long conversation with the agent. I was told that while the rates went up I should consider that other insurance companies were going to raise their rates substantially higher and/or eliminate coverages. Sink holes are very costly to remediate. Additionally that is why there are two coverages sudden collapse and sink hole. Because a large part of that cost is the debate between homeowner and insurer as to whether the coverage was activated. Sudden collapse can only occur with a sink hole whereas with the latter there will be a dispute if cracks in the concrete are a result of sink hole or naturaly settling. There were a rash of claims submitted in the Tampa area that were not sink hole but it cost the insurance companies thousands to defend them.

Our governor has saw it fit t allow all insurers in the state raise their rates as needed because he is attempting to take pressure off of citizen Property and the states reinsurer. God bless our Governor. if this doesn't do it or if the state experiences some cat losses expect another round of increases

[784caroline]

Capt John

See post #35 in this thread... The distinction between Sinkhole Loss and Catastrophic Ground Collapse is very significant. Everyone in this area should have SINKHOLE LOSS not just Catastrophic Ground Collapse.

Also PLEASE check your policy for there are 2 types of SINKHOLE coverage and its all about how they are defined. They are vastly different in both coverage and cost.

SINKHOLE LOSS....Gradual settlement or weaking of the earth supporting your property including structural damage to the building or foundation caused by gradual settlement. (THIS is the most common form of sinkhole loss in The VIllages and is the most expensive)Repairing the foundation of your home can easily cost you tens of thousands of dollars to fix it right and possibly in the 6 figures.

CATASTROPHIC Ground Cover Collapse....THis is also known as sinkhole insurance but it is the "ABRUPT" collapse of ground cover that requires a structure to be condemed and ordered to be vacated by government authorities. This does happen in The Villages but not as frequent as a gradual settlement.

[CaptJohn]

Capt John

See post #35 in this thread... The distinction between Sinkhole Loss and Catastrophic Ground Collapse is very significant. Everyone in this area should have SINKHOLE LOSS not just Catastrophic Ground Collapse.

Also PLEASE check your policy for there are 2 types of SINKHOLE coverage and its all about how they are defined. They are vastly different in both coverage and cost.


Whoops! :ohdear: Thanks for the reminder. Somehow I missed that post. Must have jumped in a page after that or had one of those senior moments while quoting another post. :laugh: Thanks also to Bill for the link.

This is all great information every owner should be aware of.
This is all great information every owner should be aware of.
This is all great information every owner should be aware of.

So I guess boils down to 'when is a big hole in the ground not a big hole in the ground' or the subtitle 'Fast holes vs slow holes'!

[CarGuys]

Was not a option for us with The Villages or AAA insurance quotes/

It's going to be a $70 inspection fee and if we pass then we get both coverages on our homewoners.

I am happy to pay it for peace of mind. Especially the settlement part vs the HUGE hole question. I'm covered for both now.

My question is why does the Villages not test each lot before a sale? May be a problem in the future as less and less people will write for the coverage.

In our Tamarind Grove area AAA stated to us there is only one company writing a sink hole insurance policy at this time. There goes the competition.

[graciegirl]

Why doesn't The Villages test each lot before a sale?

Why do I think they would if they could? Maybe because over time geological conditions change with the shale and the water tables and all.

Who knew this is like California? Why do I think that The Villages would tell us if they knew?

What is wrong with me?

I refer you to the map of where they are and the explanation for why sink holes sink that I posted somewhere a while back.

There is also a big meteor out there somewhere. I wonder if someone knows that it is heading toward central Florida and that too is being kept from us.

I am going to find my beads. They are here somewhere. Maybe I didn't bring them.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

........

What is wrong with me?

........

Ummmmm.....lemme get back to you on that one.......

:jester:

Bill :wave:

[graciegirl]

Ummmmm.....lemme get back to you on that one.......

:jester:

Bill :wave:

That's it Bill. I am taking your present back. ;)

[Bill-n-Brillo]

:cry:

Bill :wave:

[skyguy79]

That's it Bill. I am taking your present back. ;)What? Just because Bill is putting together a task force to provide you with a comprehensive answer? :ohdear:
(Dang, there goes my present too!) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/faeini1/a29.gif

[graciegirl]

What? Just because Bill is putting together a task force to provide you with a comprehensive answer? :ohdear:
(Dang, there goes my present too!) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/faeini1/a29.gif

It was a Porche.

Unless you buy American.

[skyguy79]

It was a Porche.

Unless you buy American.Huh? I didn't know that Porches were available that could be added to houses in TV! :shrug:

[2BNTV]

I just added Sinkhole insurance to my home policy; an inspection was required (can't recall the cost) but the actual policy cost $156.

Just asking.............

I would assume this is a yearly cost? $156 per year seems inexpensive.

Is this cost based on the price of a home?

For us wannabees. Wouldn't it be prudent to put this item on the list of inspections before buying a home?

[graciegirl]

Something from Sunday school kept nagging at me about where to build a house..

Luke 6:46-7:1

Unfortunately...this part of the world is SAND.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I looked back through our records for our H.O. insurance. Adding sinkhole coverage added 19% to our total premium cost this past year. Taking that into account, our total premium for this coming year has also increased an additional 17%. :eek:

Welcome to The Wonderful World of Homeowner's Insurance in FL!!

Bill :)

[CarGuys]

Assume the position all -INCOMING!!!! The sinkhole fun is just starting.

[The Shadow]

This is an example of a reverse sink hole.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Sink.jpg

[Bill32]

:cus:

We just found out this week that our insurer (Security First) will no longer write sinkhole coverage in Marion County although they will continue to cover catastrophic ground collapse. In other words, when our homeowners policy comes up for renewal in March, it won't include sinkhole coverage. When I asked our agent about this, she stated that all eight companies she deals with are no longer providing sinkhole coverage for homes in Marion County because of extensive losses in the northern portion of the county.

Has anyone else run into this same issue? If so, has anyone found a solution?

Same for me in Sumter county...........

[CaptJohn]

Are there any lots available with 'catastrophic ground collapse'? I was thinking of building a home with a basement (hurricane shelter) or swimming pool.

[CarGuys]

Ahhhhhhhhh Hello Mr. Mtg company I'm stopping over today and giving you the keys to my previous home now a Hole.

Won' t be making any more payments for awhile. It will take you three years to close on the rubble.

Thanks so much for the non insurance coverage. It's all yours now!

[TOTV Team]

Closed temporarily for a security screen moderation.

[TOTV Team]

After performing extensive scans and investigating we are able to confirm that there are no issues with TOTV and the issue reported was not originating from TOTV.

This thread has been reopened.

[CarGuys]

Appreciate your checking it out for us. I feel bad for those that had thery day ruined with a attack for what ever reason.

Never Fun! I know you Mac people are smiling.