Love Your Lawyer Day! 11/6/2015.

[Taltarzac725]

https://bol.bna.com/a-day-for-spreading-love-to-lawyers-everywhere/

This has to go into the "Just For Fun" section of TOTV.

I have to say that there were admirable law students/ law professors at the University of Minnesota as well as at other institutions I went to like the University of Nevada, Reno and the University of Denver as well as places I interviewed for positions like North Carolina Central University Law Library and the University of Texas at El Paso. I even lived with one of these law students/lawyers, Jennifer V., for an academic year in 1989-1990.

There have also been many lawyers/law professors since 1991 who have helped in some way with my 224 612 Project of making practical information for survivors/victims much more accessible. Mainly through sending supportive letters and the like as well as on Findlaw once in a while even if I had to fight off a particularly nasty cybersmearer/cyberstalker/troll from 2001 through 2007 or so on Findlaw and perhaps elsewhere. He was like Othello's Iago pretending to be a friend while causing all kinds of havoc in my Internet presence.

I do like lawyer jokes though. I hope to see a lot of them here on this thread. If you have a positive story about a lawyer, too, post it.

I consider myself an activist for survivors/victims of crimes and a law librarian even if all the work I have done on this is pro bono and also at my immediate family's expense and sacrifices. I could not have done any of this without the love and support of a large extended family that put up with my considerable pig headedness.

[Taltarzac725]

No lawyer jokes?

I recall a funny story which also should tell you something about the nature of the law. At least, around 1988.

I had an expert in Taxation for my Tax Law Course. One thing though, he had trouble talking for some reason.

His lectures were also often very hard to understand because he often used the language of Tax Attorneys and Accountants.

Anyway, one day Susan got the bright idea of asking the Tax Law Professor for some of his class notes and such so that perhaps we could have a better opportunity to understand Tax Law.

Susan seemed elated the next day to be handing 30 or so nicely typed, xeroxed, stapled handouts.

That was until we found out what these were.

They were all about the various properties of wood in wood piles, storage, dimensions, longevity, etc. At least, that is what I got.

My roommate or former roommate from Middlebrook Hall took pity on me and managed to snag a Law Review Outline of this man's Tax Law Course.

Which I had to contribute 50% to 75% in order to use in the Final and only Exam for this course. I was having a serious problem with the Computer Room Law Student (Class of 1989) Manager so I had to sneak onto the Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoner's Student Computer to do some of this.

The fellow law students got jealous when they saw me with this Law Review outline and of course accused me of cheating. I did write all over the Law Review Outline with my own work-- notes from this often obscure Tax Law Professor-- so I thought that would be enough.

So, I was busy working on the WESTLAW Project at that time in the Law Library.

Some of the Law Professors did not like me all that much but this Tax Law Professor was not one of them.

He "lost" my Final Exam for two years until I aced the Tax Section of the Minnesota Bar around 1990. I screwed up on the Contracts part though. So, I did not pass the Minnesota Bar. Law librarians are not supposed to get in lawyer-client relationships anyway. And law librarians often have to move a number of times from state-to-state while gaining library experience. I did take the MN Bar Exam twice though but missed the passing grade by a 251 out of 260. I did challenge it though because of problems I was having at the University of Minnesota Law Library in January 1991 and following. It had taken me a few years if I remember right to get that Tax Course grade. My transcript would just have a blank for that grade. I got a 12/16 which is a B so I was happy with it.

And, I did add 50- 75% to the Law Review Outline, I just had to write on whatever I had had time to print out from the Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners computer.

A lot of the students knew about the problems with the Computer Room Manager (Class of 1989) as a woman in the First Year in my same Class of 1989 had dropped out because of something he had done. He had tried something similar with me when I was a tenant of him in a very bad part of Minneapolis when I did not own a car. But, I had not heard about what he had done to Debbie until he tried something similar to me in the Summer of 1988. And it was not something that rose to the level of a crime.

The Law Review Outlines for the various courses at that time could really improve your chances of getting a good grade but they were the property of the Law Review students who could give them to whomever they wanted as long as that person added his or her own work to the Outline for their own use. It was a lot easier f you had ready access to a computer which I did not have all that much because of my problems with the Computer Room Manager. So, I would just take the printout of the Law Review Tax Outline to this Professor's Class and write all over it as he talked and this was right in front of the Computer Room Manager who was also in that course.

[Taltarzac725]

No lawyer jokes?

I recall a funny story which also should tell you something about the nature of the law. At least, around 1988.

I had an expert in Taxation for my Tax Law Course. One thing though, he had trouble talking for some reason.

His lectures were also often very hard to understand because he often used the language of Tax Attorneys and Accountants.

Anyway, one day Susan got the bright idea of asking the Tax Law Professor for some of his class notes and such so that perhaps we could have a better opportunity to understand Tax Law.

Susan seemed elated the next day to be handed 30 or so nicely typed, xeroxed, stapled handouts.

That was until we found out what these were.

They were all about the various properties of wood in wood piles, storage, dimensions, longevity, etc. At least, that is what I got.

My roommate or former roommate from Middlebrook Hall took pity on me and managed to snag a Law Review Outline of this man's Tax Law Course.

Which I had to contribute 50% to 75% in order to use in the Final and only Exam for this course. I was having a serious problem with the Computer Room Law Student (Class of 1989) Manager so I had to sneak onto the Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoner's Student Computer to do some of this.

The fellow law students got jealous when they saw me with this Law Review outline and of course accused me of cheating. I did write all over the Law Review Outline with my own work-- notes from this often obscure Tax Law Professor-- so I thought that would be enough.

So, I was busy working on the WESTLAW Project at that time in the Law Library.

Some of the Law Professors did not like me all that much but this Tax Law Professor was not one of them.

He "lost" my Final Exam for two years until I aced the Tax Section of the Minnesota Bar around 1990. I screwed up on the Contracts part though. So, I did not pass the Minnesota Bar. Law librarians are not supposed to get in lawyer-client relationships anyway. And law librarians often have to move a number of times from state-to-state while gaining library experience. I did take the MN Bar Exam twice though but missed the passing grade by a 251 out of 260. I did challenge it though because of problems I was having at the University of Minnesota Law Library in January 1991 and following. It had taken me a few years if I remember right to get that Tax Course grade. My transcript would just have a blank for that grade. I got a 12/16 which is a B so I was happy with it.

And, I did add 50- 75% to the Law Review Outline, I just had to write on whatever I had had time to print out from the Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners computer.

A lot of the students knew about the problems with the Computer Room Manager (Class of 1989) as a woman in the First Year in my same Class of 1989 had dropped out because of something he had done. He had tried something similar with me when I was a tenant of him in a very bad part of Minneapolis when I did not own a car. But, I had not heard about what he had done to Debbie until he tried something similar to me in the Summer of 1988. And it was not something that rose to the level of a crime.

The Law Review Outlines for the various courses at that time could really improve your chances of getting a good grade but they were the property of the Law Review students who could give them to whomever they wanted as long as that person added his or her own work to the Outline for their own use. It was a lot easier f you had ready access to a computer which I did not have all that much because of my problems with the Computer Room Manager. So, I would just take the printout of the Law Review Tax Outline to this Professor's Class and write all over it as he talked and this was right in front of the Computer Room Manager who was also in that course.

Here's an obituary for the Tax Law Professor at the U of Minnesota. Ferdinand SCHOETTLE Obituary - New York, NY | New York Times (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?n=ferdinand-paul-schoettle&pid=146843285)

And more information about outlining-- Law School Outlines: It (http://blog.learnleo.com/law-school-outlines/)

[Taltarzac725]

Just so I am clear I did change the Tax Law Outline from the Law Review but not enough so that the Professor reading it would not know I had used one of these Law Review Outlines. I was not used to having this kind of advantage so I did not change it up enough into my own words.

The Professors too, at least some of them, would follow the Law School Grape Vine so this Tax Professor would have known about my working the Law Library Reference Desk as well as my doing the WESTLAW Cataloging Project. I was the cataloger and not the brain behind that Project that belonged to a Group of Law Librarians located around the US.

The law school exams did not have your names on them. They would be passed out with numbers on them by one person who was a Law School employee and a second person usually a Law School Dean's Office employee or something like that would keep track of who got what number exam. The Law Professor would only see the number. The Dean's Office would have the numbered list.

But since I had been accused of getting a Law Review Outline for that Tax Course (and not sharing it!), then the Dean's Office would have took notice of whatever Exam number I got.

It was probably that Computer Room Manager I had such problems with one accused me of it as I refused to share the Law Review Outline with him after what he had done to me when I was a tenant of his that Summer of 1988. It was not criminal but close. He also used to bug me about "Meeting my Parents" as he put it. I am straight. He was not. And Debbie H., had dropped out of law school at the U of MN because of a similar difficult situation this Computer Manager had put her in during the First Year of Law School. I had not known what he was really like for quite some time not heeding the warnings of some of Debbie H.'s law school friends. He also whenever he would see me would ask about what was up with my Tax Law Exam and I would say that I had no idea as the grade never came out for what seemed like two years or so. He would tell me to go talk to the Tax Law Professor.

One of the brain's behind the WESTLAW cataloging Project-- Gail Daly http://www.aallnet.org/mm/Publications/llj/LLJ-Archives/Vol-103/2011-03/2011-33.pdf -- when she found out that I had done well on the Tax Part of the Minnesota Bar-- got my Tax Law School Course grade finalized after that long period. I did fail the MN Bar but did well on the Tax Part. That could have been a multiple choice part too. I do not really remember.

[Taltarzac725]

I have been digressing with my law school experiences.

Would love to hear some other's law and/or law school experiences?

[Nucky]

Our lifetime go to lawyer just asked me to use a newbie lawyer for a small real estate item that we needed to be represented on because he was hammered with several large cases. We are thoroughly spoiled by our lifetime lawyer and trust him totally. Can't say that about anyone except my wife, so far, LMAO. The newbie is just that, more concerned with billable minutes than taking care of business. In close to 40 years I never had to question a bill ever. Now I need a lawyer to help me deal with this newbie lawyer & his bill that he mixed me up with someone else. I told him each time we spoke that I was taping him so I could refer back to the conversation if needed. About an hour and a half total. The bill was $2350. I may need these tapes to prove the time we spoke & the time he worked for me off the phone, total 4 hours, $1200 no problem. I got billed for almost 8 hours. No good deed goes unpunished. Gimme our lifetime guy back please lord. Overall lawyers have treated my entire family well, I'm not gonna let this situation put a chip on my shoulder, I'm not gonna pay him either so we'll see. $1200 that's it.

While on lawyer's please explain to me why I would close on a house in The Villages and not be represented by a lawyer. This is a real mystery to us. Please don't say people in Florida are nicer than people in the north. Thank's for the help in advance.

[Taltarzac725]

Our lifetime go to lawyer just asked me to use a newbie lawyer for a small real estate item that we needed to be represented on because he was hammered with several large cases. We are thoroughly spoiled by our lifetime lawyer and trust him totally. Can't say that about anyone except my wife, so far, LMAO. The newbie is just that, more concerned with billable minutes than taking care of business. In close to 40 years I never had to question a bill ever. Now I need a lawyer to help me deal with this newbie lawyer & his bill that he mixed me up with someone else. I told him each time we spoke that I was taping him so I could refer back to the conversation if needed. About an hour and a half total. The bill was $2350. I may need these tapes to prove the time we spoke & the time he worked for me off the phone, total 4 hours, $1200 no problem. I got billed for almost 8 hours. No good deed goes unpunished. Gimme our lifetime guy back please lord. Overall lawyers have treated my entire family well, I'm not gonna let this situation put a chip on my shoulder, I'm not gonna pay him either so we'll see. $1200 that's it.

While on lawyer's please explain to me why I would close on a house in The Villages and not be represented by a lawyer. This is a real mystery to us. Please don't say people in Florida are nicer than people in the north. Thank's for the help in advance.

Make sure you document everything as much as you can. Even that "8" hours for $2350 sounds like highway robbery for a fledgling lawyer. How, and How Much, Do Lawyers Charge? - Lawyers.com (http://research.lawyers.com/how-and-how-much-do-lawyers-charge.html) How Much Lawyers Cost: 5 Factors That Affect Lawyers' Rates (http://blog.lawkick.com/how-much-lawyers-cost/)

[Taltarzac725]

The stuff that threw my second attempt at the MN Bar Exam in the Summer of 1991 was what had happened at the Law Library convention in New Orleans. I had been studying for this MN Bar Exam while attending the conference. The University of Minnesota Law School/Library paid my way via train down from Minneapolis and also paid for the hotel. But, my getting more input about how some Law Librarians at the University of Minnesota split my concerns about the respect for survivors/victims of crimes into a professional/personal dichotomy. They tried to make the issue of practical materials for survivors/victims of crimes I had based on my personal experiences with the 2-24-1976 Michelle Mitchell murder as some kind of personal hurdle for me. It is not. The issue was what kind of practical materials were in law libraries for survivors/victims of crimes.

I wrote other law librarians about this personal/professional split that I thought was artificial and did not reflect real world experiences.

The result of this was that when I locked myself out of my New Orleans hotel room without a shirt on but with pants after putting the room service tray outside of my room after the door slammed shut; one of the Law Librarians upon seeing me laughing said "That's not all he has locked himself out of!"

I did find myself blacklisted from law librarianship. And it got worse as the summer progressed with more attacks on me to the point where a fellow University of Minnesota Law School Class of 1989 Graduate and supervisor at the University of Minnesota Law Library -- Suzanne T., told me that she did not think that I needed mental health counseling but that the University of Minnesota would pay for it if I went even though I was no longer an employee of the University of Minnesota Law Library/School. This telephone exchange was around September 1991.

They twisted things basically to cover up a niche they had had in practical materials for survivors/victims of crimes. I was the issue rather than what they had in their law libraries for survivors/victims of crimes.

I am not saying that they interacted with me at the University of Minnesota Law Library/School in a unified way. A bunch of law professors and law librarians do not conspire together as their egos would be way too big to do that. Even Suzanne T., seemed to be talking on the basis of something someone told her to say as she sounded like someone talking from one side of her mouth while the other side says something else.

I have not worked in a law library though since June 1991. My 224 613 Project has though I believe influenced many to improve their holdings in some law libraries for survivors/victims of crimes. I did not start using these numbers until talking about this whole mess with a interviewer/researcher Myra Y., at the University of California San Francisco Health Sciences Campus over 17 weeks in late 1992-1993. This was after a Summer of 1992 Law Librarian convention where I was basically just laughed at while trying to find some kind of employment in a law library. The UCSF Health Sciences Campus had had a study on stress on the unemployed which I had taken part of during those 17 weeks in late 1992-1993.

I did tell the Minnesota Bar Exam people about some of this at least whatever had been on my mind while I was studying for late Summer of 1991 Bar Exam.

There has to be a joke somewhere in here though! I sure never found any of this all that amusing. I did have a lot of chuckles when I started seeing these numbers 224 and 613 in more and more places after I tried to get many different kinds of media to shine a spotlight on this whole set of problems involving legal education. Of course, the joke was sometimes on me as it made me sound crazier and crazier to expect that one very committed person can make a difference just with a computer, stamps, letters, paper, and a desire never to give up on something believed in.

There were lawyers that eventually seemed to get what I was trying to do as well as leaders in other fields.

[Taltarzac725]

C.J.: President Carter's illness is hitting a longtime friend hard, but her trip to see the Carters is still a go - StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/c-j-president-carter-s-illness-is-hitting-a-longtime-friend-hard-but-her-trip-to-see-the-carters-is-still-a-go/323026561/)

This is one of my friends from the University of Minnesota Law School. She was Class of 1990. I was Class of 1989.

I used to sit next to her in my Administrative Law Course while she and the then President of the U of MN Law School Student Body doodled. This was James H, quite a nice man. Jame H., is also U of MN Class of 1990 and seems to be doing something now in Los Angeles.

I have mentioned Lori before. There are lawyers that do quite a lot of good in their communities like this one.

She is a big animal rights advocate and has been for decades.

I have met a few retired lawyers here in the Villages and they seem like good people.

[Taltarzac725]

Woods v. State :: 1985 :: Supreme Court of Nevada Decisions :: Nevada Case Law :: Nevada Law :: U.S. Law :: Justia (http://law.justia.com/cases/nevada/supreme-court/1985/13318-1.html)

Mills Lane was a friend of my Mom and Dad and used to play bridge with them along with his about foot taller than him very attractive blonde wife.

He gave me a lot of pointers and help with my 224 613 Project even if I never called it that when on the phone with him.

If you look above in the linked case you can see that he was one of the prosecutors of one of the people allegedly involved in the Michelle Mitchel 2-24-1976 murder in Reno, Nevada. Woods was released from prison/mental health facility this year after a DNA test pointed at a different killer. Suspected California serial killer in prison most of life - Elkhart Truth (http://www.elkharttruth.com/news/michigan/2015/05/24/Judge-to-hear-health-report-on-suspected-serial-killer.html)

This 2-24-1976 murder stirred up the Reno, Nevada community for the period from February 25 through 1985 and also now in 2015.

I do believe passionately that access to practical reliable information about the legal system through the Internet, libraries, Facebook etc. can help prevent injustices like this. I was often the person trying to get people to step back and gain some perspective on the whole mess back then which did not make me all that popular. Kind of made me look like a very cold fish.

Mills Lane did have me send a bunch of my correspondence to a friend of his but if you want to look at some of these documents I did put them up on my Photobucket array for Taltarzac725. You should be able to get at them just by Googling.

Mills Lane is one of these lawyers that I had respect for all the long years I knew him as a friend of the family.

You also saw him as a TV Judge, Celebrity DeathMatch and on the cover of some of his books. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_Lane

[Taltarzac725]

I remember sending a letter to someone I respected as a fighter for Constitutional Rights. His response around 1996 was "Keep It Up, Jon" in a postcard. The leader is Gerry Spence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Spence

It was dated 6/06/1996. That did kind of bother me but then I thought that the writer of the book of Revelations was probably stoned out of his mind when he wrote it or having some kind of nervous breakdown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

[golfing eagles]

Love Your Lawyer Day! 11/6/2015.

Sounds like an oxymoron to me. :1rotfl:

[Taltarzac725]

Love Your Lawyer Day! 11/6/2015.

Sounds like an oxymoron to me. :1rotfl:

Kind of to me too. Many people consider me a lawyer just because I have a JD.

I had a good friend in Reno, Nevada-- Mildred Johnson-- who was born on 1900. She used to tell her husband-- a mail carrier-- who had desired to be a lawyer that she would divorce him if he did as she did not want someone who lied all day coming homing to her and then continuing with the lying. Lawyers do omit and spin stuff a great deal in my experience with them but then again so do sales people, politicians, and some others.

Mildred was ecstatic when I dropped out of Law School at BYU in 1982 but I kind of lost track of her after heading to the University of Denver to get a MA in Librarianship and Information Management in 1984 but got bit again by the Law Bug when reading various Law Review articles being indexed by people at the Information Access Company where I worked in 1984-1986 as a business abstractor primarily on Business Area Databank. Then went back to Law School at the University of Minnesota. The business abstracting did really help as most of the curriculum at that law school was business oriented-- Antitrust, Securities, Corporations, Accounting for Lawyers, Commercial Paper, Torts, etc. I did thumb through Victimology stuff too indexed by the Legal Resource Index people at Information Access Company. The IAC people showed up too-- the marketing department-- at some of the Summer Annual Law Librarian conventions I went to like the one in Reno, Nevada in 1989 and the San Francisco one in 1992.

Mildred's son was a Reno police officer so I could follow the Michelle Mitchell 2-24-1976 murder investigation through him from whatever scuttlebutt he heard. Or at least, I think that is how that went. Some of the memories from the 1970s are little foggy in the details.

One little detail about Information Access Company. My chief editor-- Robert Lee-- at Information Access Company would often allow my puns in the Area Business Databank abstracts I would write. He did groan a lot about them.

[Taltarzac725]

These documents I mention are on my PhotoBucket array connected with my Facebook account. You can see them by Googling Taltarzac725. I have put a lot of blood, sweat, and mostly tears into this work since January 1991. My wonderful family has put up with me for all that time as well in various places like Rohnert Park, CA (December 1991- June 1996); various cities near Palo Alto, CA while staying with my older brother and his wife; Palm Harbor, FL (1996-2005); and now the Villages from June 2005 through 2015. With a week or so in DC visiting my older brother and sister-in-law in May of 2015. :bigbow: