Republicans did not put country first!

[Guest]

As I'm writing this, the dow is down around 700 pts. The Bailout did not pass strictly because of the Republicans. Their theme of "Country First" should not be put on the toilet paper shelves. And McCain can kiss his campaign good-bye.

They are trying to spin this that it was due to something Nancy Pelosi said. Give me a break! I watched what she had to say and I have seen literally hundreds of times where Republicans and Democrats have talked to and about each other in this manner. The Republicans really do think the American Public is stupid.

This type of arrogance has reigned over this country for the last 8 years. These Republican congressmen & women have spit on their own President and the American Public.

Please, please don't come back with that "Nancy Pelosi" excuse. It's ridiculous and school yard. To blame the Democrats in any way, shape or form will not hold water.

All of you holding your "Country First" signs can now use them as wallpaper. They have shown their true colors in a stunning and frightening way.

This is a very sad day for America.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/chelsea24_photos/Obama.jpg

[Guest]

Poppycock!

[Guest]

Chelsea24, I'm not so sure about that. The vote was 228-205 with 40% of the Dems voting against it. If all the Dems had voted for it, it would have passed with no Republican votes.

[Guest]

Chelsea24, I'm not so sure about that. The vote was 228-205 with 40% of the Dems voting against it. If all the Dems had voted for it, it would have passed with no Republican votes.


That be the truth!! Now who is to blame?

[Guest]

As I'm writing this, the dow is down around 700 pts. The Bailout did not pass strictly because of the Republicans. Their theme of "Country First" should not be put on the toilet paper shelves. And McCain can kiss his campaign good-bye.

They are trying to spin this that it was due to something Nancy Pelosi said. Give me a break! I watched what she had to say and I have seen literally hundreds of times where Republicans and Democrats have talked to and about each other in this manner. The Republicans really do think the American Public is stupid.

This type of arrogance has reigned over this country for the last 8 years. These Republican congressmen & women have spit on their own President and the American Public.

Please, please don't come back with that "Nancy Pelosi" excuse. It's ridiculous and school yard. To blame the Democrats in any way, shape or form will not hold water.

All of you holding your "Country First" signs can now use them as wallpaper. They have shown their true colors in a stunning and frightening way.

This is a very sad day for America.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/chelsea24_photos/Obama.jpg
What a crock!

If this is a case of Pelosi/Bush/Dowd/Frank blinders, then they're on good and tight.

The bailout did not pass because it was a bad idea that a goodly number of Democrats and Republicans realized.

One of the main causes for this mess was the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (who was President then?) which let the financial institutions operate at pre-1929 freedom. BOTH political parties should be wearing the scarlet letter for this act and letting it live - but the politicians got rich off of it (and still are).

The bill that went to a vote still had no fix for the root cause of the problem. Instead it was"Give me the money and I'll fix ev erything later." Sort of sounds like the Wimpy "hamburger" story.

And why should the financial institutions get the money? Because Pres. Bush, Sen. Dowd, Rep. Frank and Speaker Pelosi say so?

When I got taught first aid, when you give a victim an IV of plasma or whole blood, you must also stop the bleeding right then, or what goes in one end just keeps going out the other. Where was the "stop bleeding" in this bill? Oh yeah, there was none, but "trust me, I'll fix it later, after we have some hearings..."

Congratulations to those Congresspersons - Democratic and Republican - with the backbone to vote "COUNTRY FIRST" today!

And yes, "Wall Street" in the personage of Citicorp will get $300Billion for FDIC bailout of Wachovia today. And even though it's "FDIC" it is really "GENERAL TREASURY, USA" that shells out that money.

[Guest]

Chelsea24, I'm not so sure about that. The vote was 228-205 with 40% of the Dems voting against it. If all the Dems had voted for it, it would have passed with no Republican votes.


Democrats yes 140 no 95 40%
Republicans yes 65 no 133 67%

Why should one party take all the credit/blame?

[Guest]

Laughter and Light???????????????:1rotfl: Surly you jest!

[Guest]

Sorry, I'd love to blame the Republicans on this one, but I'm with Steve -- it was a horrible idea from the git go. More should have had the courage to vote no. That would have said something to me.

I used to do mortgages. At that time, the creative financing was just beginning. I had clients ask for these loans, especially the 5/25 (low rate for 5 years, then a huge balloon or refi). I tried to show them why they were a bad idea in black and white -- especially for those who barely qualified. Some listened and went for the conventional, some didn't and went to other brokers. It was harder to find a conventional lender that would take some of my clients on, but I usually did find them one at a good rate -- one they could afford for the next 30 years. I know of at least 3 people who opted for the 5/25 who ended up losing their homes because they couldn't qualify for the refi in the past two years.

I hated the 5% downs (which later became 2% and then zero down). I knew these people were looking at losing their home in the future but it was the only way they would ever be able to even own a home for a few years. Even so, it was wrong and, again, I blame the lenders' greed. It was and is my theory that the goal of Countrywide, et al. was to have these borrowers lose their homes and then sell them at a nice profit (with the new loans going to them, of course). They just didn't expect the home market to take a tank with their ugly little loans.

To have a bail out without any plan behind it makes no sense. Sorry, but the greed of the board of directors and stockholders got these companies in these messes. Yes, we need to stop the bleeding but the companies that have hemorrhaged themselves into oblivion should either be bought by other companies or go under -- not be propped up by the U.S. Government.

Let's just pray this doesn't become a world-wide depression like the one of '20's-30's.

[Guest]

Sorry, but you haven't even begun to see the fall out from this yet. To say Congratulations to these selfish people SteveZ and others, is an extremely self-centered position.

We here in TV are luckier than most. But to most, this day meant a lot. It meant their payrolls and paychecks would be met, it meant their homes were secure, it meant they could proceed with a college fund for their child, it meant they would be able to sell or purchase a house, it meant gas in the car and it meant food on the table.

It didn't mean these things to me or you possibly. It certainly didn't mean these things to anyone on congress. But it meant that to most of America.

Nobody loved the bailout. But, it is a necessary evil. You can only spin people so much before they get dizzy and tired of the situation. I honestly believe the Republicans could present you with a bottle of horse manure and you would call it "Ode-de-Cheval and gleefully rub it behind your ears.

It's time to face the music and dance. And the tune they're playing is "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime." Wait and watch.

[Guest]

Chels, I was for the bailout originally but not so sure now. So we take a huge hit, soup lines, lots of jobs lost... this thing is so huge we'll be doing all that over the next 50 years anyway. Maybe it's best to "bite the bullet", arm ourselves and go forward. Everyone here know how to plant a garden, preserve food, mend, want to lose weight, repair your own home, (if you still have one), and vacation in your own back yard? Sure Wall Street says we need money NOW, they make so d*** much, they won't feel the dent. Most of the rest of us will be paying for this in spades and for our children, worse.

[Guest]

Laughter and Light???????????????:1rotfl: Surly you jest!

While disagreeing with the post and writing information that backs it up is one thing....must you be MEAN about someone personally???

Not needed!! IMO!!! and NO I do not need to defend Chelsea as she is a STRONG woman herself....I just find it unnecessary and silly to put someone down personally....just post your facts and opinions about the posting...time to grow up!

[Guest]

Except you can't plant a garden in TV. The fallout is just beginning according to the news. If the credit freeze continues large companies will not be able to meet payrolls. As layoffs happen, no taxes going in to pay for social security, medicare for future use. 1.3 trillion lost in the market today. (US Market). I don't pretend to understand all the goings on that will be affected, but if the President thought it was severe enough to go on television several times (and I did not vote for him), I believe him and want it passed. Put party affiliation aside and get the bill done. I don't want my sons to lose their jobs. I hope everyone is in CDs and Treasurys because everything else is going down.

[Guest]

Except you can't plant a garden in TV. The fallout is just beginning according to the news. If the credit freeze continues large companies will not be able to meet payrolls. As layoffs happen, no taxes going in to pay for social security, medicare for future use. 1.3 trillion lost in the market today. (US Market). I don't pretend to understand all the goings on that will be affected, but if the President thought it was severe enough to go on television several times (and I did not vote for him), I believe him and want it passed. Put party affiliation aside and get the bill done. I don't want my sons to lose their jobs. I hope everyone is in CDs and Treasurys because everything else is going down.

You're exactly right Conn. Put party aside. You get it! Thank you for your post.

[Guest]

Sorry, but you haven't even begun to see the fall out from this yet. To say Congratulations to these selfish people SteveZ and others, is an extremely self-centered position.

We here in TV are luckier than most. But to most, this day meant a lot. It meant their payrolls and paychecks would be met, it meant their homes were secure, it meant they could proceed with a college fund for their child, it meant they would be able to sell or purchase a house, it meant gas in the car and it meant food on the table.

It didn't mean these things to me or you possibly. It certainly didn't mean these things to anyone on congress. But it meant that to most of America.

Nobody loved the bailout. But, it is a necessary evil. You can only spin people so much before they get dizzy and tired of the situation. I honestly believe the Republicans could present you with a bottle of horse manure and you would call it "Ode-de-Cheval and gleefully rub it behind your ears.

It's time to face the music and dance. And the tune they're playing is "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime." Wait and watch.
Chelsea, you can be as insulting as you want. it doesn't change the fact that Pres. Bush, Speaker Pelosi, Sen. Dowd and Rep. Frank (to name a few) wanted everyone to pony up the money and then sometime later (after two or three more issues make the news and take over the headlines) would they maybe bet around to a fix. I wouldn't trust most of those folk to hold my lunchbox, let alone $700Billion with no fix for the problem. This was a "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

It is time to face the music and dance, but the song is "Lord have mercy on the working man" (http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/t/travistritt3950/lordhavemercyontheworkingman1328923.html) with the key lines being:

Uncle Sam's got his hands in my pockets
And he helps himself each time he needs a dime
Them politicians treat me like a mushroom
'Cause they feed me bull and keep me in the blind.

Businesses that are credit-worthy will get credit for payrolls, etc. because they are solvent.

Homes are secure if the person can afford the mortgage payment (nobody ever paid mine, so I'm in no hurry to pay someone else's).

If the college fund is full of high-risk investments, then high-risk should tell you something, and investment is a $10 word meaning gamble.

Perhaps you should take a good whiff of what this bill was made of. It stunk worse than any horse manure, and was being sold as the magic elixer cure-all (but for whom?)

Most of us have compassion for people, but I find it difficult for so-called friends to ask their neighbors to bankrupt themselves on a bet that things may get better.

No one is going to go hungry because of this, but some people used to milking others via pyramid schemes or getting rich by siphoning campaign cash "donated" by financial institutions aren't going to get richer off of ouor collective fear - a fear they fostered!

If some businesses go belly-up, so be it. Thousands do each year. Bailing out a failed business is like paying off a repossessed car - you still end up with no car, and now less money!

Making this a partisan politics issue is dead wrong. The combined greed from both sides of the aisle tried to screw all of us, and counted on the fact that we were too scared to do anything but drink the Kool-Aid and never ask what flavor it was.

[Guest]

SteveZ-maybe you will be proved right, but I heard plenty of people that I trust on television say it should not be labeled a bailout, but an investment in America. I really admire Suzy Orman and she was one of the them today saying it should be passed. I trust the people we elect to do what is right whether I voted for them or not. I disagree with Bush on the war, but I never doubted he thought he was doing what was best for America, and I think he did last week and this week when he came to the American people with the request and Congress. I was leery of it at first, worried about my children and their children paying for it, but after listening to smarter people than me for a week on television about it, the alternative is scarier.

[Guest]

SteveZ-maybe you will be proved right, but I heard plenty of people that I trust on television say it should not be labeled a bailout, but an investment in America. I really admire Suzy Orman and she was one of the them today saying it should be passed. I trust the people we elect to do what is right whether I voted for them or not. I disagree with Bush on the war, but I never doubted he thought he was doing what was best for America, and I think he did last week and this week when he came to the American people with the request and Congress. I was leery of it at first, worried about my children and their children paying for it, but after listening to smarter people than me for a week on television about it, the alternative is scarier.

I respect your comment. Two days ago I sent an email to my elected representatives saying "I'm okay with a bailout (or whatever term applies), but only if the root cause of the problem is simultaneously fixed in that legislation."

I don't trust Congressional memories longer than the second issue following this one. If a fix doesn't happen now, there will not be one, and the financial hemmorhage just continues.

I just don't understand throwing money at an undefined problem of undetermined cause as solving anything.

If it takes another week to write the legislative fix, so what? Anything other than a fix with the money is just throwing money away.

[Guest]

Conn, everyone will be able to plant a garden anywhere in the event of a collapse. That aside, the problem with this bailout is it ISN'T the bottom and your, mine, our children's future indebtedness to the government because of the bailout guarantees nothing! There is a false bottom in housing, even though prices have adjusted, we will be financed by China and other nations scraping off the little cream there will be left and so on. Read lots of articles, listen because there is a lot of spin by people with money to be made. I think the President does want to help save our economy but this nation has never been quite in this situation before and the solution isn't simple. I think a plan will be passed Thursday but are we we putting our last bandaid and all the bacterial cream we own on an amputation. It won't be enough.

[Guest]

I said the Bailout was a necessary evil. I never said I liked it. Think beyond yourselves for a change. IMO I believe all should be brought to justice. This is white collar crime of the highest magnitude. But in the meantime, there are people -- PEOPLE-- out there that will suffer greatly from this partisan squabbling.

I repeat, this is a very sad day for America.

[Guest]

68% of the democrats voted for it, 33% of the republicans were for it. Sure seems like the republicans were more responsible for its defeat.

Some people seem ideologically opposed to this economic proposal. How can anyone in good conscience say we will be better off with massive unemployment, loss of savings and retirement plans, etc. I'm better off growing vegetables in my yard than having the money to buy them?

It appears as if this is such an anti governmental, anti big business attitude that is so pervasive that some are unwilling to view the consequences in an objective light.

Do those opposed to the current plan believe we should let the economy sink, or are there other plans which may encourage economic recovery. All I've seen from the opposition are statements against the "bailout" and some minimal plans which the current Republican administration state are insufficient to provide the resources needed to address the issues.

[Guest]

Chels
You need a new tv , Your getting bad info on the one your watching.....To bad your watching that round tube but you won't be able to buy a new one ...and you can thank loud mouth Pelosi and the 95 democrats who didn't vote for it even though it was mostly a democratic plan........It wasn't the Republicans deary ..

As usual , you blew it .....

I swear this is the last time I read this site , I graduated.......

[Guest]

For some strange reason, I can't help but think about the move "It's a Wonderful Life" when I think about this situation. Do you all remember Mr. Potter (Lionel Barrymore), the miserable ******* banker who was the savings and loan's competition? We all hated him and hissed at him when he gave George the big lecture on how business works. But you know what? His manner was terrible, and he was a miserable human being, but he had it right when it comes to responsibility. When I bought my first house, I was scared to death of my mortgage. My first mortgage was only $16,000 - I put down 20% and didn't sleep well for several days after the closing. Do you think the people making $35K a year and taking out the $500K mortgages with zero down payment lost any sleep? I doubt it. They were only doing what they were encouraged to do. We need more than a bailout. We need an attitude adjustment, which is what the market is doing now. Unfortunately, it's taking responsible people down too. Let's just hope the strong eat the weak in the banking market, which is the way it's supposed to work, and the market can get back to its intended purpose before we all lose our life savings.

[Guest]

Lets get 1 thing straight here....

IT WAS BUSH'S BILL

Paulsen got down on his knees and begged the Democrats to pass the bill. A small group of Free Market Republicans want to let the market work it out. So after 8 years of the Bush Economic Policies the Dow Jones has fallen below the it was when Bush took office...so we have officially gone backwards.

The President approval rating is in the crapper, the Congress can't do anything as usual. This is what happens when the country is equally divided.

We either keep on with this ridiculous finger pointing and political posturing and sit down to work together.

[Guest]

As I'm writing this, the dow is down around 700 pts. The Bailout did not pass strictly because of the Republicans. Their theme of "Country First" should not be put on the toilet paper shelves. And McCain can kiss his campaign good-bye.

They are trying to spin this that it was due to something Nancy Pelosi said. Give me a break! I watched what she had to say and I have seen literally hundreds of times where Republicans and Democrats have talked to and about each other in this manner. The Republicans really do think the American Public is stupid.

This type of arrogance has reigned over this country for the last 8 years. These Republican congressmen & women have spit on their own President and the American Public.

Please, please don't come back with that "Nancy Pelosi" excuse. It's ridiculous and school yard. To blame the Democrats in any way, shape or form will not hold water.

All of you holding your "Country First" signs can now use them as wallpaper. They have shown their true colors in a stunning and frightening way.

This is a very sad day for America.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/chelsea24_photos/Obama.jpg

Thanks, Chelsea. You've said it very well. It is a sad day, but I believe that we will rebound. It will take some time, but think about it; there are many of us who are angry, disgusted & "not going to take it anymore". I think the pols will get the message. Not that they won't try to pull the wool over our eyes again, but they won't get as far as they have again.

[Guest]

Chels
You need a new tv , Your getting bad info on the one your watching.....To bad your watching that round tube but you won't be able to buy a new one ...and you can thank loud mouth Pelosi and the 95 democrats who didn't vote for it even though it was mostly a democratic plan........It wasn't the Republicans deary ..

As usual , you blew it .....

I swear this is the last time I read this site , I graduated.......

Fumar, you keep leaning so far to the right, you're chasing your tail. I suppose the 133 Republicans that voted against it do not count? No! Of course not! Because you're above the crowd in Fumarland, deary. :laugh:

I didn't blow it, but McCain will. Wait and see dahling. Graduated! Well it's about time! It's good to have a High School degree, eh, deary? :duck:

[Guest]

While disagreeing with the post and writing information that backs it up is one thing....must you be MEAN about someone personally???

Not needed!! IMO!!! and NO I do not need to defend Chelsea as she is a STRONG woman herself....I just find it unnecessary and silly to put someone down personally....just post your facts and opinions about the posting...time to grow up!

I am not going to add anything substantive to this thread as I dont complete understand all of what is going on and admit to it.

BUT.....to say what you said in defense of someone who has put down posters and politicians on a personal level is troubling. I honestly dont want to get into a personal thing here and am trying my best to totally ignore some posts but you are defending the worst offender on here...if I am offending anyone with this I am sorry

[Guest]

I thought insults and personal attacks were not permitted on this forum. Have some more kool-aid chelsea, please?:clap2:

Not that it's any of your business, but I know Fumar. I think I'll save my Kool-aid for you. I heard you need it. :D

[Guest]

Lets get 1 thing straight here....

IT WAS BUSH'S BILL

Paulsen got down on his knees and begged the Democrats to pass the bill. A small group of Free Market Republicans want to let the market work it out. So after 8 years of the Bush Economic Policies the Dow Jones has fallen below the it was when Bush took office...so we have officially gone backwards.

The President approval rating is in the crapper, the Congress can't do anything as usual. This is what happens when the country is equally divided.

We either keep on with this ridiculous finger pointing and political posturing and sit down to work together.

Today the DJIA was 10,365 at the closing bell.

On July 22, 2002 the DJIA was 7,784 at the closing bell due to the dot.com debacle.

We didn't need a bailout then.

The process for properly having legislation is to have public hearings to get to the WHY and HOW (WHO can found by the Department of Justice) before there is a WHEN and WHAT.

If all of this bailout bill was so important for America, why all the secrecy of its final content until the 11th hour (vote time)? Nobody seemed to have any idea exactly what to do, but many were 100% sure that throwing money at whatever and to whomever would make "things" better. I wouldn't give my kids raises in allowances on information that scanty, let along hundreds of billions to strangers.