Reactions to the Oct. 2, 2008 VP Debates [Archive]

Guest

10-02-2008, 10:52 PM

I'm trying to find the right words. And, believe it or not, I'm trying to be fair. I agree with Boomer 100% that they should get that "you betcha Joe Six-Pack" out of her. It appears they think this connects with people. What people? The ones that can't even spell GED, I fear. This is not the woman I would want representing women in any way, shape or form. Much less our country. Way and I mean, waaaayyyyy out of her league.

To be fair, I think she did what her party wanted her to do. The bar was set so low, even she could not stumble. Energy, reform and maverick were her buzz words. (Although Biden snuffed out the maverick image and I noticed she then stopped using it.) Thank God. She did not make me, personally, feel any more comfortable than before. If I lived around people that "folksy" quite frankly, I'd move. The thought of her and Putin staring each other in the eyes is chilling.

I thought the moderator was fair, but not that good. She did not do the follow-ups I would have liked to have seen. Palin seemed to want to control the debate, even telling the moderator she might not answer everything asked. And somehow, that was allowed.

Joe Biden made me feel comfortable especially in the Foreign Policy segment. I liked that he didn't use kid gloves, but was still always the gentleman. I liked that when she pulled out the "mom" card, he trumped it with the "dad" card.'' I think he answered all of the questions. I can't say the same for Palin.

All in all, I don't think this debate changed anyone's minds.

Guest

10-02-2008, 10:59 PM

I really hate to bring any substantive issues into this discussion, but when Biden said that climate change was 100% man-made, I just couldn't believe it. When did we build refineries on Mars?

Another day we can get into easterners' (& Californians') disdain for fly-over people.

Guest

10-02-2008, 11:06 PM

:popcorn::1rotfl: wink wink!!

Guest

10-03-2008, 12:27 AM

I thought the Palin and Biden debate was forgettable. They both made we wince at times. And why does she have to drag that poor little baby around on stages?

Guest

10-03-2008, 12:50 AM

Sarah Palin didn't do herself any harm, but she also seldom answered the questions directly, so she didn't do herself much good either. Biden was okay, didn't smack Palin around (figuratively, of course), and didn't bloviate much. All-in-all, a pretty boring experience. If you want a debate, put the two debaters (or is it debators?) in a room together in front of the camera with no moderator, and let them duke it out. In that format, you can't hide and you can't evade the questions. But that will never happen as long as the networks get to set the agenda.

Guest

10-03-2008, 05:59 AM

I think Biden did a better job of connecting McCain to Bush than Obama did. Palin got in a couple of zingers. There was the typical political posturing (lying and exaggerating) by both of them. All in all, they seemed like two nice people who were trying to respect their opponents.

Palin needs someone to point out to her that the U.S. doesn't need a down-home, aw shucks soccer mom. If she's shrewd enough to go from mayor of a small town to governor, she's certainly a lot shrewder than she's showing. We need to see her srtengths, not her cuteness.

It really is hard to pick on Biden. He has the age and experience and the savvy needed to show his best side. He can be dull and long-winded, but he is a politician, albeit one of the nicer ones.

It is strange to think that regardless of who is elected to be president, our vice president will be the poorest we've ever had.

At this point, I think I'd rather have Biden for prez and Palin for vp (given our choices) than the two running for that office.

There, I think that covers my opinion of the VP debate and more or less what I feel about these two. (YAWN probably sums it up best.)

Guest

10-03-2008, 06:18 AM

Sure wish she
could pronounce Iraq/Iran correctly. She also pronounces
nuclear as new-cu-lar. Her "good old gal" act is out of place for the position she seeks.

I agree with you. I find it irritating that she says "ya" instead of "you" and "goin" instead of "going", that type of thing. It makes her sound uneducated. I know she's been coached to make the best of her strong points, i.e. her folksiness, but I too would prefer someone who speaks a little more intelligently.

Guest

10-03-2008, 06:41 AM

I will give it to Palin in this way, if you dont know the answer or get nervous, always go back to energy and how Joe Six Pack wants things in Wasilla... I was glad to see Biden not pick to much. ALthough he got her on the Climate deal. I have to agree that Palin's coaching payed off by the creek in Az. She just forgot how to answer questions that are directed at her. I thought her remark that people on the east coast dont do things like right as compared to ALaska. That was kind of open ended, but Biden smiled and left it alone.

Guest

10-03-2008, 07:10 AM

Palin made one obvious stumble, when she twice referred to the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan as "Gen. McClellan." (His name is David McKiernan). As you mentioned, she didn't answer the questions at times, which Biden did call her on once.

Guest

10-03-2008, 08:51 AM

Not one word.
Anybody half up to date on current events could have come up with most of the same questions....as did the debate preparation teams for both parties. Two politicians primed, prepared and playing to their respective audiences as planned and coached.

Those making so called educational measures of words like ya VS you and what ever else are either English majors or never lived anywhere in the deep South...or the very far Northern parts of Canada or New England where they all have their local twang....even the most educated and successful!!
In the same line of using speech as a measure of anything, there are many well spoken idiots out there some where....many who couldn't find their :cus: with a map.

As long as they (I don't care who) are on the stage in front of a camera...practiced, prepared, coached, etc....y'all are not seein' the real person!!

Winner-loser.......none. They both get a C-. Yawn best describes it.

By the way using all the microscopic measures applied to Palin....there are a lot of folks, both sides of the aisle, that shouldn't be in those positions.
Obviously qualifications is a very overused, misused, misguided, prejudiced, meaningless and unneccessary measurement.:jester:

BTK

Guest

10-03-2008, 08:55 AM

I very seldom even comment on debates as they are more carnival than enlightning in anyway,but out of curiosity I went to fact check and find that neither one of them told much truth :) But that is the way of politics today !!!

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

Guest

10-03-2008, 10:17 AM

If we are going to get into pronunciation nitpicking, how about Obama with his "Tollybahn" amd "Pahkystahn".

I question Biden's lack of character for not owning up to his rabid support for the war prior to and initially after the war but now tries to twist it into making it sound like all he was doing was voting to authorize negotiations. That is a lie and anyone who does any fact checking knows this.

Guest

10-03-2008, 12:16 PM

To call a question-and-answeer-and-rebuttal session with candidates a debate[/I in an academic sense is really stretching a definition.

Both candidates had one job - make the primary candidate look good or better. Anything after that is just a bonus. With that being the job, both did not fail.

The two VP candidates have dramatically different personalities, and there is nothing wrong with that. That's true also of the Presidential candidates as well. People use what best works for them to transmit a message, and the transmission media vary a lot. The question should be whether you understood the content of the message versus whether you approve of someone's accent or vernacular. I try to get value from the content of the message, rather than look at the delivery of the message from an entertainment or showmanship perspective. If you measure a person by how well you approve/like their personality and communications manner versus the content of the message, then you are more concerned with [I]style than substance.

One of the worst public speakers I ever knew was a French engineer/businessman. He would stumble over his notes, mispronounce names brutally and always looked like he was in total fear of the audience. however, behind closed doors he was without doubt the best negotiator I ever met, and rarely came away from the table (no matter how many parties were involved in the negotiation) other than with total success. Most people grossly underestimated him, and he took total advantage of their error.

So, if you are looking for a William Jennings Bryant type who can take the stage and give a mesmerizing performance, get your candidate from Broadway. If you want your candidate to be the one who leaves the negotiating table as the winner, pick the smart poker player with the track record of beating the odds and making everyone wonder How did s/he do that?

Guest

10-04-2008, 05:12 AM

Good grief, I can't believe there are people attacking this woman's accent. Talk about elitism, this forum wreaks with it. Did I spell everything correctly and did I put my words in the correct order? sickening is all I can say.

Good post.....I used that term....elitism...to describe this board on the politics board and the one that was here for the horse park and glad to hear that someone else can see it also.

Guest

10-04-2008, 08:18 AM

those who "think" they are or worse want to be seen/heard as elite usually role play to a large degree to live up to an expectation they have in mind that accomplishes their goal.
Always measuring...they rarely get to read the really good books that don't have a cover measuring up to their minds eye.

They are rarely a good judge of people because they miss the real person due to the measuring filter employed.

BTK

Guest

10-04-2008, 08:56 AM

Dr. Phil! Is that you? :popcorn: Go on . . .

Guest

10-04-2008, 09:13 AM

One does not have to be a sound-bite psychologist to observe the obvious. Snobbery usually has the visibility of a billboard.

Exchanges of ideas and opinions often work best with mutual respect. Snide remarks and insults under the "it's just my brand of humor" may keep Don Rickles employed, but that does very little in increasing knowledge and understanding on subjects of the day which one would think is the purpose of a politcal discussion board.

There are many points of view among the participants of this board - probably as many as the number of participants themselves. We learn about these views from the presentation, discussion, debate, challenge and rebuttal, and our personal view (at least mine are) are often tempered by developing a better understanding of a contrary position. Let's hope we can keep this exchange in a respectful manner, as more is learned in such an environment than through just verbally slicing a person for the "fun of it."

Guest

10-04-2008, 09:19 AM

Good Morning, Bucco and BTK & Co.,

I don't know if you have ever read anything I write, and I will spare you a leaflet drop -- for now. But in case you do not know me, I think I had better preface this with a couple of things:

1. I am not in hate with John McCain. But I am angry over this VP thing. I have always been a moderate Republican woman. I must confess though that I have been accused of being a closet Democrat from time to time.

2. My gripe with Sarah Palin is that far right, same old, same old stuff that has been a distraction from real issues for years. And those far right issues have blown so much smoke, for so long, redirecting focus from the things that really need to be addressed, that I truly have begun to fear that our great nation may be on the verge of a hamstringing.

3. I am not an elitist. Never have been. Never will be. In fact, I am sitting here right now listening to my favorite country music station while I type this stuff. And I admit to loving that music. (But I digress. Someday maybe we can talk about country music in another thread. I really want to do that.)

But anyway, I just want to say this:

Those of you who are such big fans of Sarah Palin are doing her a great disservice by not recognizing how the girl needs to be workin' it. She keeps going after the votes she already has. There is a big duh factor in that on the part of her advisors.

In fact, I find her vernacular speech and her head cheerleader rah, rah to actually be a condescention on her part. There is something that rings completely condescending -- on her part. Irony, huh.

On this board, there are a lot of women who were on the cusp of the women's movement. We learned to play the game. And we laid the semi-victory in the lap of the generation of women who followed us.

We were the navigators. And one of the things we learned well, if we wanted to "overstep" those boundaries, was to act like the job we wanted to have. That is what Sarah Palin is not doing. And why her advisors do not have sense enough to show her how that is done, I do not know.

So even though I am not a fan of Sarah Palin, I know that many of you are. And I really want to let you know that she is not playing to win. And why nobody knows that, I do not know. Probably she has no women advisors who are of an age to know.

Sarah Palin already has the votes she is going after and going after and going after. What Sarah Palin needs is me.

Boomer

Guest

10-04-2008, 09:36 AM

Personally, I could care less if the Presidential or VP candidate is male or female, their age, race, religion or other personal trait. I want the better of the teams in office based on their skills and knowledge, including experience.

There has been a lot made about "the first black candidate," having a 'woman" on the ticket, being "too old for the job" and whether race/gender/age should sway votes. i would hope that we've gotten beyond all that as being not applicable to the hiring process. A lot of sweat and effort has gone into protecting people from such bias in the hiring process (and an election is a hiring process), and we can either walk the walk regarding race/gender/age bias or accept the fact that it's just talk which we really don't apply when things are "important."

Equal opportunity means blinders are in place regarding race/gender/age when somoeone applies for a job, even if that job is President or Vice President. If we believe in it, then skills, knowedge and experience rule. If we don't, then it's a prejudice contest, and we need to recognize we are not as bias-free as we like to believe we are.

Guest

10-04-2008, 12:00 PM

Osh, when you aspire to the highest office in the land we do expect you to use proper grammar and diction. That is not elitism. How low do you think the bar should be set?
Yes , I know she is running for VP, but there is a distinct possibility she could be POTUS.

Good grief, I can't believe there are people attacking this woman's accent. Talk about elitism, this forum wreaks with it. Did I spell everything correctly and did I put my words in the correct order? sickening is all I can say.

Guest

10-04-2008, 12:22 PM

where I differ significantly from many others is, I don't want to see the candidate (any of the 4) "act" the job.

From my corporate days I saw too many "actors"....they usually got hired (not by me or anybody who worked for me).

My preference....show me the real person. Let 'em talk off the cuff. Find out what they are about. Discover their accomplishments. Check out the accomplishments with those affected by them. See what their prior constituency has to say about them (notice how for both McCain and Obama nobody ever talks to the people they supposedly did so much for).
Back in corporate America we did not have the media to distract us with fluff/BS/made up presentations/acting......so we alway were able to get the better candidate.

Too bad politics doesn't work that way.

No acting for me....I want the real deal to evaluate.

BTK

Guest

10-04-2008, 12:50 PM

Like I said herein this morning, her image makers are not getting it right. The point I attempted to make was that those who are on the defensive should consider redirecting their anger at Sarah Palin's advisers.

The Republicans treated me in a condescending manner when they thought I could buy in so easily, simply for XX instead of XY in the chromosome department.

And the condescension continues as they allow this woman to sing her one note song and to dance her one step dance.

And just so you know, I would feel the same way if this were a man.

And I guess I just need to embrace the idea that I have been rejected.

But it hurts.

If I ever unearth, somewhere in my files, a most hilarious picture, I may post it on here. In the year 2000, I received a photograph in the mail from W. It was the picture of him dancing with Laura at the inaugural ball. So one day while playing around with a primitive version of some photo program, I superimposed my head on Laura's body. And even though my neck looked a little weird because I could not get the angle exactly right, the picture was lots of fun. And it caused people who saw it to do a double take. Oh, how we danced at the ball in the year 2000. But now I am a woman scorned. And I have felt that way for quite awhile.

And now. . .

I know this girl can gut a moose.

And she sure can gut a party.

Boomer

Guest

10-04-2008, 01:54 PM

Trust me, Joe was on his best behavior. I'm sure he was told to go easy on her, otherwise, he would be a "big meany" like the press.

He was a gentleman and she came
off as a twit (who talks like that these days?)

Guest

10-04-2008, 02:23 PM

have decided to let her play out as she is. If that doesn't measure up to some hypothetical bar some think has to be achieved...so be it.

I could conclude y'all prefer anybody who can be made up, wound up, programmed, rehearsed to perfection, speech prepared "actor" vs anybody real....based on some of the comments.

If she is a twit then all those representatives that can't reach her level are what? And how did they get the job? They were wound up, programmed, rehearsed to perfection, speech prepared "actors". Who have proven anybody can get elected. And even if incompetent, keep the job....while continuing to do nothing. If she is a twit the others must be morons. Have you ever gone on line to seek out some of these duds.

I hesitate to say it....OK I waited....I think y'all are so partisan it doesn't really matter. As much as I have little time for the bent media, even they give her credit for doing a good job. Now who could they be trying to impress?? Not the media bretheren for sure.

My favorite reminder....as Nancy Pelosi said...it doesn't matter what the subject/issue is... if it is from the other party...I AM AGAINST IT!!!

By the way how did she get her job? See above. Two heartbeats away from being President:22yikes:

BTK

Guest

10-04-2008, 03:43 PM

BTK - Pelosi got her job by starting out after college interning for a Senator. She worked her way up through the Democratic Party and was elected to the House in 1987. She has been re-elected 10 times. She has served on the Appropriations and Intgelligence Committees. She was elected House Minority Whip and then Speaker of the House. She has traveled around the world. She speaks more than one language. She has tons of experience for any office she would be elected to.

Guest

10-04-2008, 04:28 PM

Why didn't I just stay out of political?

Why am I back in political?

BTK, I understand what you are saying about the coaches and actors and such. I know. But I think what's going on with me is that I must, on some level, be hoping that there is more than just one dimension to Sarah Palin.

I think I have at least managed to make clear that it is that right of right mentality that I cannot abide. I had long ago made up my mind that if McCain ended up with Huckabee, I could not vote for him. At that time, I had never heard of Sarah Palin.

But when trying to see it from a strictly objective viewpoint, I really do think that her advisers owe it to her to at least try a little of the Eliza Doolittle routine. Her supporters should recognize that. Maybe there are other facets that could be polished a little so that they could shine. But I guess maybe that's all there is. I am in white hot terror of that being the case.

I am in such a mess over this.

I am terrified of the Democrats, too. I know a sweet talker when I hear one. And I didn't come all this way to simply be turned into a taxpaying machine, more than ever.

My thinking is cursed because I can raise to an art form playing out both sides of pretty much anything. And that can indeed be quite a curse.

Would that I could spew partisan politics.

Why can't we just have somebody in the middle. I really thought that might be John McCain. I thought that for awhile. With the right VP. I was such an idiot to even think such a thing.

And I just looked back at what I have written in this thread.

And I now see what is going on with me.

It is all so glaringly obvious.

I did not get invited to the party. And I keep going back to my mailbox. Looking for that invitation. Hoping to find it there. Maybe it was just lost in the mail for awhile. Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe I need to get over it. It's time. They never intended to invite me to the party. Nobody did. I am afraid I will just have to stay home.

Would that I could spew partisan politics.

Boomer

Guest

10-04-2008, 04:55 PM

what you have confirmed is she is a thoughrobred(sp?) politician.
There is a progression there without a doubt. The problem I have is she is also an openly professed partisan....she is against what ever the opposition is for!!!!!!

I am a victim of my background.....corporate America. And I am proud to say one of the minority at that. In what way? I had a reputation for being the "hired gun". I fixed companies that were in distress. The usual root cause?
People who had great credentials, like Pelosi. When I went in to save a business, among the first thing I did was a quick evaluation of those in charge/in power. Those who worked their way up....unfortunately too many were not doing what was right for the business. They usually were populist in character. Well spoken. In the industry for years. However they were not making the hard calls that were required to stop the ship from sinking. They were the sort who were rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic when it was going down!!! My first task was always to ID the likes of the tall talking, non contributors. They were in the job TOO LONG. They knew too many resaons why something different could be done. The solution? Remove them. Put some one in who is aggressive. Someone new who DOES NOT KNOW WHY things need to stay as they are. For me CHANGE was an absolute requirement. Experience would show, encumbents with tenure, good people basically.....BUT INCAPABLE OF MAKING CHANGES.

That is exactly what is wrong with our governing bodies. They have been there too long. They have tenure. They are not about to rock the proverbial boat. They know how things work and why. They are NOT capable of doing what needs to be done. They can't. They have too many ....you owe me one in play.

I would take a Palin, rough as a cob, to come in and shake things up. Not McCain. Not Obama (he is a in bred politician too.....too much baggage!!!!!!).

Let's face it. We do not have the best people for the job running for the highest offices in the land. We do not have the best people in the Senate or Congress.....too much inbreeding! They will never get the job done.

The main reason I like Palin....right wrong or any otherwise....she is not an in bred Washingtonian. Is she the one to get it done....unfortunately no. She is only a VP candidate....a second best job with not much responsibility or capability to make change.

So a long winded response....I have no use for any candidate...eother party that is in bred...that is incapable of doing what needs to be done. and I do not subscribe to backing a person because they are my party.

I would bet on a breath of fresh air who is not a part of the existing system.
Someone who will no doubt make mistakes trying to DO SOMETHING VS the ongong do nothing crowd. Partisan politics WILL NOT GET THE JOB DONE.

Every well running business I left for the stock holders usually had very few or NONE OF THE ENCUMBENTS in place.

Washington needs an enema!!!!!!!!

The likes of Pelosi...Obama....McCain are not the candidates to get it done.

I am ranting I know....but it is what irks me no end......defend the party.....no matter what. There is no way that will succeed or change anything.

I am not for Palin as much as I am against the establishment. McCain....Biden...Obama...Pelosi....Reid....et al....!!!!!!!

I also do not believe in voting for the best of the worst....whoever that may be.

I'll take the new broom every time.....however...ther are none running for office. Yes, I would bet on Palin to make changes the others can't. She won't be able to....because the establishment and partisan America won't let it happen.

In corporate America it took paradigm shifts to make things change/happen. It just will not happen in Washington, DC.....NO MATTER WHO WINS!!!!

BTK

BTK

Guest

10-04-2008, 05:20 PM

BTK, Was GWB an inbred Washingtonian? He was supposed to be a breath of fresh air.
Osh, when comfortable with people, I speak very much like Sarah Palin. I wouldn't consider speaking in such a relaxed way if I was running for Vice President of the United States of America. Many people on this site know me personally. I doubt any would call me an elitist. This isn't about dialects, darlin'.

Guest

10-04-2008, 05:40 PM

Boomer.....first of all, MY comment on elitism brief as they were, were not simply about Gov Palin. In that regard,my problem is that we could make fun of Sen McCain's age, crippled arm, rich wife....Sen Obama's large ears, etc......Sen Biden and his numerous errors when speaking. We could talk about each of them and their politics, but this particular board has had more threads about Gov Palin's family (all of them) whether she shoud stay home (that arguement propped by personal child rearing stories)...her exposing her children to sun in The Villages, and various other perceived traits...including her accent (which by the way is normal for where she lives, and I suppose that eliminates any native Alaskans for office) grammar (errors they all make,except when using that teleprompter :))......in my mind that is the issue in this regard.

You can mock her, BUT she has been a successul mayor....Governor of a state for two years and frankly the candidate for President cannot say that.

I already told you in a previous thread how I feel politically so wont even repeat that...we share a lot of the same fears.

I, for one, will not dismiss anyone because of her sex, size of family, grammar, accent, or any other perceived weakness. That goes for her or any other candidate.

I am also anti establisment....while all know I will vote for Sen McCain BECAUSE of his opponent and NOT because he is who I want to be President...I am so very upset at him on the bail out vote filled with pork.

Sorry for rambling and not making sense but I needed to at least post on this !

Guest

10-04-2008, 06:30 PM

'. . .
Osh, when comfortable with people, I speak very much like Sarah Palin. I wouldn't consider speaking in such a relaxed way if I was running for Vice President of the United States of America. Many people on this site know me personally. I doubt any would call me an elitist. This isn't about dialects, darlin'.

Sam,

Could you please explain to me why nobody gets that? I keep trying to explain it, too. They defend it. They shout names. (I have made two of my friends and two of my relatives pretty mad at me -- so far. Maybe that is why I keep ranting on here. Maybe I can get it all out of my system so that I can behave better in person. I really do like to get invited places.)

But something is so very wrong with this picture. The handlers must want her to act that way. And that very thought, in and of itself, is terrifying from so many different angles.

You and I both know that the woman who enters an important meeting is quite a bit different from the woman who is just hanging out in a casual setting. Yet, both are the same woman. And there is nothing deceptive about being able to do that. It is partly about nuance and the ability to project the understanding and command of an important situation. And we all need every advantage we can get when things get tough. No matter how subtle those advantages may be. And as President of the US, well, the stakes can't get a whole lot higher than that. It would be tragic to see the President of the US dismissed as being in over her head just because of the image she puts forth.

So like her or not, she is being done a great disservice by her own people.

Oh, well.

I have heard that if I can stop beating my head against the wall, it will feel so good.

Boomer

The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain. . .and I am becoming totally insane. . .

Guest

10-04-2008, 06:44 PM

Sam,

Could you please explain to me why nobody gets that? I keep trying to explain it, too. They defend it. They shout names. (I have made two of my friends and two of my relatives pretty mad at me -- so far. Maybe that is why I keep ranting on here. Maybe I can get it all out of my system so that I can behave better in person. I really do like to get invited places.)

But something is so very wrong with this picture. The handlers must want her to act that way. And that very thought, in and of itself, is terrifying from so many different angles.

You and I both know that the woman who enters an important meeting is quite a bit different from the woman who is just hanging out in a casual setting. Yet, both are the same woman. And there is nothing deceptive about being able to do that. It is partly about nuance and the ability to project the understanding and command of an important situation. And we all need every advantage we can get when things get tough. No matter how subtle those advantages may be. And as President of the US, well, the stakes can't get a whole lot higher than that. It would be tragic to see the President of the US dismissed as being in over her head just because of the image she puts forth.

So like her or not, she is being done a great disservice by her own people.

Oh, well.

I have heard that if I can stop beating my head against the wall, it will feel so good.

Boomer

The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain. . .and I am becoming totally insane. . .

Best advice I ever got in business was to be myself and never be phoney or try to be phoney ! For what it is worth :)

Guest

10-04-2008, 06:49 PM

More people watched the VP debate than watched the last Presidential debate. Anderson Cooper said that twice as many people watched the Vice Presidential debate than watched the finale of American Idol, which commands a huge audience. And they weren't watching the VP debate to see what Biden had to say.

OK, OK, call off the attack dogs. My only point is this ..

Whatever negatives you have to say about Sarah Palin, her accent, her mothering abilities, her blunders with Katie Couric, her lack of knowledge on foreign affairs and the economic situation ..... you can't deny that she is a colorful character and she shoots from the hip! People can't wait to see what she does next, how she looks, whether she makes any blunders, etc. She has invigorated the election process. She has charisma and people are drawn to her.

Palin may not be the next vice president, but I'll betcha she'll be on the Washington scene for a long time to come.

Guest

10-04-2008, 06:50 PM

I wonder how "you betcha", "hockey mom" , "Joe Six-pack" and the rest of the her folksy vocabulary translates into foreign languages. We look like the laughing stock already after Bush, I can only imagine how the rest of the world views us now. From what I've been reading, it's pretty bad.

And PLEASE don't say it doesn't matter. Believe me. It matters BIG TIME!

Guest

10-04-2008, 07:27 PM

I have to agree with Boomer, I found the winks and off the cuff remarks to be condecending especially coupled with the fact that she simply did not address many of the questions she was given. I actually had high hopes that she would show something of substance but was very dissapointed.
I read this and felt like it summed up a lot of what I saw.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/opinion/04herbert.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Guest

10-04-2008, 07:46 PM

Guest

10-04-2008, 08:55 PM

In October 1967, McCain�s plane was shot down and he was captured by the North Vietnamese. Carol McCain became active in the POW-MIA movement. A former model, she dedicated herself to her children and kept the family together, friends said, while awaiting his return. �She had the perseverance to carry on,� said Melinda Fitzwater, a cousin of McCain�s who later worked with Carol McCain at the White House. �She had a little baby and small kids. She was a great, unique person.�
On Christmas Eve 1969, while she was driving alone in Philadelphia, Carol McCain�s car skidded and struck a utility pole. Thrown into the snow, she broke both legs, an arm and her pelvis. She was operated on a dozen times, and in the treatment she lost about 5 inches in height.
After John McCain was released in March 1973 and returned to the U.S., he told friends that Carol was not the woman he had married.
While on a trip as a Navy liaison with the Senate, McCain spied Hensley at the Honolulu reception. In a television interview with Jay Leno on the �Tonight Show,� Cindy McCain joked about how the Navy captain had pursued her. �He kind of chased me around � the hors d�oeuvre table,� (This is the disabled veteran, ha,ha) she said. �I was trying to get something to eat and I thought, �This guy�s kind of weird.� I was kind of trying to get away from him.� John McCain was 42; she was 24.
Carol McCain was distraught at being blindsided by her husband�s intention to end their marriage, said her friends in the Reagan circle.�They [the Reagans] weren�t happy with him,� Carol McCain �was this little, frail person� . She was brokenhearted.� �Nancy Reagan was crazy about her,� Reynolds said. �But everybody was crazy about Carol McCain� . And the Meeses were very generous and helpful and comforting to her.� About all she has ever said is this to McCain biographer Robert Timberg: �John was turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again.�
�My divorce from Carol, whom the Reagans loved, caused a change in our relationship. Nancy � was particularly upset with me and treated me on the few occasions we encountered each other after I came to Congress with a cool correctness that made her displeasure clear. �I had, of course, deserved the change in our relationship.�

McCain's views on women haven't changed much. A least he didn't bring in a waitress from Hooters as a VP candidate. Now that would be colorful! Come to think of it, most of the Hooter girls are more intelligent as well!

Guest

10-04-2008, 09:46 PM

Sorry Bare, but I think most people want someone ready to step in as President, not a colorful character. Who cares what she's wearing? Has this country become that shallow? I don't think so. Oh wait! I forgot about the famous "Flag Pin" attacks on Obama! Geesh!

Sorry Chels .... Respectfully ... I wasn't implying that because she is a colorful character, she is vice presidential material. I don't think that.

But I am saying that she is the most interesting and charismatic candidate to surface in a long, long time.

And I am definitely saying that I see her as a being in the political scene for some time to come. If she doesn't become VP, we haven't seen the last of Sarah Palin!

Guest

10-05-2008, 07:00 AM

Oh Osh, Don't feel bad for me. I live in TV..and you don't.:1rotfl:;)

Guest

10-05-2008, 10:42 AM

Sorry Chels .... Respectfully ... I wasn't implying that because she is a colorful character, she is vice presidential material. I don't think that.

But I am saying that she is the most interesting and charismatic candidate to surface in a long, long time.

And I am definitely saying that I see her as a being in the political scene for some time to come. If she doesn't become VP, we haven't seen the last of Sarah Palin!
Good point!

It appears that those who are the most upset with her are so because she is a conservative, and that runs counter to what some want/expect/hope a woman in politics will be.

Expecting someone to "fit" an image designed by some, and that person not mirroring that image, and the person still gets a following of respect, just is a hard pill for some and the response is always prejudice to some degree.

John F. Kennedy, Colin Powell and Sandra Day O'Connor and Antonin Scalia ran into it as well....

Guest

10-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Really?? I'll bet you are thrilled. It is a wonderful place to live. Back in the day, I figured you would never leave the grandkids.
Congratulations on your pending purchase.

Guest

10-05-2008, 02:24 PM

Good point!

It appears that those who are the most upset with her are so because she is a conservative, and that runs counter to what some want/expect/hope a woman in politics will be.

SteveZ I agree with your first paragraph and not the rest. And Palin is an extremist. I don't have a preconceived image of exactly what our first woman VP or President should be, but I can clearly see in Palin what I do not want it to be. It is indeed like a bad Disney movie, Hockey Mom becomes President!

It's much too dangerous a time, both economically and militarily. (Not that there would ever be a good time! LOL)

Guest

10-05-2008, 04:01 PM

SteveZ I agree with your first paragraph and not the rest. And Palin is an extremist. I don't have a preconceived image of exactly what our first woman VP or President should be, but I can clearly see in Palin what I do not want it to be. It is indeed like a bad Disney movie, Hockey Mom becomes President!

It's much too dangerous a time, both economically and militarily. (Not that there would ever be a good time! LOL)
No more dangerous than having a lawyer who has never run a business, never been in the military, never served as a public administrator at any level of government, and served less than half-time on-the-job as a first-term US Senator becoming the US' Chief Executive.

Guest

10-05-2008, 04:34 PM

She or who ever you want to discuss matters little....as long as it is the other party....forget it...........it is that simple.
I have a couple of staunch partisan kids and I don't care what one wants to discuss....all they want to talk about is their view of the other party's shortcomings....I am being polite when I allude to it as "talking" ..... it is always.....ALWAYS.... bashing only....it doesn't matter the subject.
I personally refuse to get into a discussion with them because it never is!!!!!
As the saying goes...it is like :cus: in the wind!

BTK

Guest

10-05-2008, 07:02 PM

No more dangerous than having a lawyer who has never run a business, never been in the military, never served as a public administrator at any level of government, and served less than half-time on-the-job as a first-term US Senator becoming the US' Chief Executive.

That indeed would be dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest

10-05-2008, 07:27 PM

Guest

10-05-2008, 07:52 PM

about running for VP or is there some other sinister hidden meaning.

As I have challenged on other threads if folks are going to drop to picking fly specks outta da pepper.....then use that same degree of analysis on the 'O'ther candidates....others in congress or the senate.
You will quickly find out there is one :cus: of a lot more real concern than Palin presents.
Don't y'all get weary of bashing the opposition?
Use that same doubting, questioning attitude on some things in Obama's past....Bidens....__________ fill in ant politicians name and see what you scrape up.

BTK

Guest

10-05-2008, 08:06 PM

I read today on a Political website that when Palin was a mayor that she ok'd that a rape victim had to pay for their own rape tests! Palin, when asked said that she didn't know anything about it!! But,she only managed a town of around 6000 people so how hard was it that this important fact, besides she can't be that concerned about a rape victim if she thought it was alright to add that extra burden of paying for those tests. Another thing that bothered me during the debate was when she blurted out," I've only been at this for 5 WEEKS" !!!! WOW!!!!

I hate to get into this, but were you in any way concerned when a man who has been in congress for 26 years mentioned the WRONG PRESIDENT and said he came on tv, WHICH DID NOT EXIST, to talk to the american people ? Did that bother you ?

Or when Sen Obama mentioned 57 states ? Both of these seem simple to me but they happened but that does not bother you ????

Holy cow are we digging for things on this lady.....We have discussed her entire family...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM in detail...we have discussed her dress, her motherhood and every single detail of her life, YET.....

YET....everyone is offended when we talk about Sen Obama and his background....we are told that is not an issue...his socialist training...his shady, cloudy and constant changing background is not an issue !!! He, who has no legislative background except as a state senator where if you check his record he took very few stands on anything. He is a professional office runner.....and we tear apart someone who was a mayor, and lest you forget the Governor of one of our states.

It bothered you during the debate when she was honest...would you prefer the old tradition of politics where the subject is changed but more smoothly...is that what we want...the smoothie ?

You accuse her of being unconcerned about a rape case years ago, yet you folks ignore Sen Obama's ties to a black activist hate church because after 20 years when forced to do so he rebuked ? You make this accusations against her but ignore the fact that Sen Obama was the 2 largest recepient from the Fannie Mae folks that were corrupt...this is all ok with you ????

I am sorry...it is difficult for me not to vent like this when I hear people post this stuff and then the same folks DONT CARE A DIDDLY ABOUT THE MAN THEY WANT TO BE PRESIDENT and who is giving him money or who he associates with.

You are happier with a community organizer...please read what they do....than a Governor ? You want a man to be your President who has been running for office his entire life...not serving and getting things done...RUNNING for office while this woman was SERVING in office ?

You would rather have a man who had all his opponents thrown off the ballot than beat them in Illinois rather than a person who ran and defeated an incumbent ?

I am sorry....I cannot fathom an american citizen who says these kind of things....be against someone or for someone but please....seems if this woman looked in the camera wrong someone has to post about it, but Sen Biden can lie as he did during the debate and NOT ONE SINGLE WORD..that seems to be ok ! He has a entire career of making large mistakes but that is fine..at least he didnt keep his children in the sun in The Villages...at least he doesnt have an accent (wow..eliminate from any office anyone from Alaska now)..at least he was just like all the other politicians we complain about....we can forgive his many many errors and lying, but not all the stuff that Gov Palin is guilty of !

WOW

Guest

10-05-2008, 08:26 PM

Oh,and for you who are concerned about Gov Palin ....this video should warm your heart.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUEQz5dltmI

Guest

10-05-2008, 08:31 PM

And again to warm your hearts.....remember that you cant say anything about Sen Obama or you are a racist....well,now you can say that Gov Palin is a racist according to article now coming out...yes this is going to be wonderful...marching kids parading and praising Sen Obama as in the video and if you criticize you are a racist..isnt this heart warming ?>

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93KD6Q00&show_article=1

Guest

10-05-2008, 09:15 PM

Guest

10-05-2008, 09:26 PM

Palin saying that Obama pals around with terrorists simply is a lie....her saying that she can see Russia from her house is a lie. Saying that Obama voted 94 times to raise taxes...is misleading. Saying that he voted against funding for the troops is misleading.

The worm has turned an McCain is desparate...they have tried to find a greater link to Ayers and it isn't there. They were on a boards together and Ayers gave him 200.00 for his first campaign. The records that were sealed have been opened ...nothing there.

Lets talk about the issues....lets talk about the 750,000 jobs lost this year alone. Lets talk about how our 401K's have been affected. The free market trickle down economy doesn't work...as W's father said it is Voodoo economics.

Less than 30 days to go and McCain has to get ugly...its his only hope.

Of course you bypass and excuse the lies told by Sen Biden...those are just fine.

Gotta tell you...have researched Sen Obama quite a bit....if the press will allow any of this to surface (they resisted the Rev Wright stuff for a long time),......it will change the election as we find out who Sen Obama really is.

I just posted a speech given at a communist party gathering in 1997 where Sen Obama was mentioned and part of the speech said..."At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack�s memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis� equally affecting memoir, "Living the Blues" and when that day comes, I�m sure a future student will not only examine critically the Frankenstein monsters that US imperialism created in order to subdue Communist parties but will also be moved to come to this historic and wonderful archive in order to gain insight on what has befallen this complex and intriguing planet on which we reside."

Comfy feeling isnt it ? I suppose Gov Palin's family pales in the face of this kind of stuff !

By the way,visit factcheck to see the lies that Sen Biden told...I would not even bring it up because it is the nature of politics, but only do as you seem to think that Gov Palin is all by her lonely. Of course his gaffes are cute.

Oh, and while you are checking facts...see who is #2 on thelist of those who got the most money from Fannie Mae.....and while you are checking facts, find out who was calling for investigations into these agencies two years ago.

And so on, but you listen not....

Guest

10-05-2008, 10:15 PM

Bucco, here's an interesting article that will warm YOUR heart.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_wasmccainbrainswashed.htm

Enjoy!

Guest

10-05-2008, 11:01 PM

Of course you bypass and excuse the lies told by Sen Biden...those are just fine.

Gotta tell you...have researched Sen Obama quite a bit....if the press will allow any of this to surface (they resisted the Rev Wright stuff for a long time),......it will change the election as we find out who Sen Obama really is.

I just posted a speech given at a communist party gathering in 1997 where Sen Obama was mentioned and part of the speech said..."At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack�s memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis� equally affecting memoir, "Living the Blues" and when that day comes, I�m sure a future student will not only examine critically the Frankenstein monsters that US imperialism created in order to subdue Communist parties but will also be moved to come to this historic and wonderful archive in order to gain insight on what has befallen this complex and intriguing planet on which we reside."

Comfy feeling isnt it ? I suppose Gov Palin's family pales in the face of this kind of stuff !

By the way,visit factcheck to see the lies that Sen Biden told...I would not even bring it up because it is the nature of politics, but only do as you seem to think that Gov Palin is all by her lonely. Of course his gaffes are cute.

Oh, and while you are checking facts...see who is #2 on thelist of those who got the most money from Fannie Mae.....and while you are checking facts, find out who was calling for investigations into these agencies two years ago.

And so on, but you listen not....

Funny to only try to deflect....not refute what is true....she lied. Tonight the McCain ads ran 5 times saying Obama voted 94 time to raise taxes. Not true...McCain has dishonored himself and it is only going to get worse now that he is losing.

And that cute little....Can I call you Joe opening. So that she could screw up the Say it isn't so Joe line.

If you don't want to vote for him don't...but lets talk about the issues...Which I also noticed you didn't.

Guest

10-06-2008, 08:06 AM

Funny to only try to deflect....not refute what is true....she lied. Tonight the McCain ads ran 5 times saying Obama voted 94 time to raise taxes. Not true...McCain has dishonored himself and it is only going to get worse now that he is losing.

And that cute little....Can I call you Joe opening. So that she could screw up the Say it isn't so Joe line.

If you don't want to vote for him don't...but lets talk about the issues...Which I also noticed you didn't.

Cologal/....Chelsea......I, and others, have posted our dissatisfaction with both candidates, both Sen McCain and Sen Obama.

You two obviously feel that Sen Obama is what he believes he is...a savior.

You both feel that Sen McCain is a failed and disgraced veteran and a liar...that Gov Palin is an embarassment to women and governors I suppose and that her family is a joke.

Steve suggested that I give it up in response to the attack on McCains service to our country. I think, in regard to you two,that is good advice.

Guest

10-06-2008, 08:16 AM

Guest

10-06-2008, 08:40 AM

Bucco, I thank Sen McCain for his service to our country. Fortunately or unfortunately, people change as they age. I think Sen McCain has become part of the power elite in this country. I have watched him speak in the Senate and elsewhere. He seems to have changed over the last ten years and I don't know if the change is related to the horrible things Bushco did to him and Cindy in SC in 2000. It appears to me that his focus is on winning at any cost..even if
his honor is at stake. It is an awful thing to watch a man spend his reputation.
I look at his temper, his choices and his rhetoric and feel sad for him. I don't know why he would even run for President at this stage of the game. He has plenty of money and so few years of life left. He should just move to TV and smell the roses, admire the clear blue skies, and have peace.

Guest

10-06-2008, 09:44 AM

Guest

10-06-2008, 12:28 PM

If you don't want to vote for him don't...but lets talk about the issues...Which I also noticed you didn't.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Cologal....I,and others started individual threads on each issue if you recall...AND I KNOW YOU DO. You and others spurned them and I started another thread after counting the views and postings to them versus the ones on Gov Palin's family.

SO,...please spare the idignance and selfrighteous attitude on this.

You know I am just tired of the lies and the smears....I would come down early to TV if I thought I could get away from the lying McCain ads. In 2000 I thought McCain was my kind of Repub....but now is it just a old man desperate to get to the WHO. He will say and do anything. He has sold is soul.

I don't look at Obama has a Saviour....thats been pretty clear. He isn't even my candidate...Hillary was. And if you think Palin is a sub for Hillary...LOL.

Cologal....I,and others started individual threads on each issue if you recall...AND I KNOW YOU DO. You and others spurned them and I started another thread after counting the views and postings to them versus the ones on Gov Palin's family. I have never said anything about Palin's family..in fact my roommates parents were best friends with her grandparents. So I don't understand your point. I did put up the Top 10 list about Palin which all seemed to enjoy. So honestly Bucco I really don't understand this post.

I don't like smear campaigns by either side and Palin's comments ****ed me off.

I can't vote for McCain...And I have clearly posted why. It comes down to issues. McCain is NOT on my side...I don't make enough money to get his attention.

Obama's not my favorite but 4 more years of Bush will be fatal.

Guest

10-06-2008, 12:37 PM

You know I am just tired of the lies and the smears....I would come down early to TV if I thought I could get away from the lying McCain ads. In 2000 I thought McCain was my kind of Repub....but now is it just a old man desperate to get to the WHO. He will say and do anything. He has sold is soul.

I don't look at Obama has a Saviour....thats been pretty clear. He isn't even my candidate...Hillary was. And if you think Palin is a sub for Hillary...LOL.

Cologal....I,and others started individual threads on each issue if you recall...AND I KNOW YOU DO. You and others spurned them and I started another thread after counting the views and postings to them versus the ones on Gov Palin's family. I have never said anything about Palin's family..in fact my roommates parents were best friends with her grandparents. So I don't understand your point. I did put up the Top 10 list about Palin which all seemed to enjoy. So honestly Bucco I really don't understand this post.

I don't like smear campaigns by either side and Palin's comments ****ed me off.

I can't vote for McCain...And I have clearly posted why. It comes down to issues. McCain is NOT on my side...I don't make enough money to get his attention.

Obama's not my favorite but 4 more years of Bush will be fatal.

Not sure why it made you angry...the comments on Bill Ayers....Your candidate had to make the decision also ...that being to bring out Rev Wright and she did. All the Bill Ayers stuff is true..you may not like it but it is true and there is much more and why THAT doesnt make you angry I dont understand at all !!!!!!!

I can understand you frustration with the last 8 years but change for change sake is very very dangeroous.

For your reading pleasure....the links below may help you in understanding that what is being said is true....the first one is from biased site I will admit but it has verifiable facts with links to do so...the second is from the Canadian Press !

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/john-stephenson/2008/10/05/mccain-camp-finally-expose-obama-ayers-connection-media-quick-rescu

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5381

These are not fun things to talk about or bring up and I am sure that Sen Clinton had to wait for sometime to get the Rev Wright stuff out there and then the media fought it and forgave immediately. She and President Clinton said a number of times that he could not be elected...ever wonder why ?

Guest

10-06-2008, 12:42 PM

Cologal/....Chelsea......I, and others, have posted our dissatisfaction with both candidates, both Sen McCain and Sen Obama.

You two obviously feel that Sen Obama is what he believes he is...a savior.

You both feel that Sen McCain is a failed and disgraced veteran and a liar...that Gov Palin is an embarrassment to women and governors I suppose and that her family is a joke.

Steve suggested that I give it up in response to the attack on McCain's service to our country. I think, in regard to you two,that is good advice.

Bucco....in my opinion this is a little harsh and I haven't read anywhere that either one of these ladies have said those things.

I don't think anyone feels that McCain is a failed and disgraced veteran....but perhaps feel that he is NOT the right person for the presidency. We have had many presidents that were not in the services...this does not qualify him for the job....but is thanked and respected for his service YEARS ago nonetheless.
Palin mentioned that McCain knows how to win the war because he was in a war....there are other people just like him...have gone through similar circumstances....this does not mean they know what the heck to do with the mess we have in Iraq and Afganistan...honestly not one person can do it alone...

As for Obama thinking he is the Savior....has he actually said that...and is there a place where Chelsea, Cologal or anyone else has actually said that? I don't know these ladies from anywhere other than here on TOTV...and I can not imagine either one saying that Obama is their Savior. Just can't see it happening. They may agree with his political stance and want him to be president....or just like him much more than they like McCain...but Savior??? that is a strong word....

Just my thoughts bucco....not arguing with you or just out here backing up my fellow democrats....if you had said this about republicans I would say the same thing....

Thanks for listening.

Guest

10-06-2008, 12:47 PM

Guest

10-06-2008, 12:52 PM

Not sure why it made you angry...the comments on Bill Ayers....Your candidate had to make the decision also ...that being to bring out Rev Wright and she did. All the Bill Ayers stuff is true..you may not like it but it is true and there is much more and why THAT doesnt make you angry I dont understand at all !!!!!!!

I can understand you frustration with the last 8 years but change for change sake is very very dangeroous.

For your reading pleasure....the links below may help you in understanding that what is being said is true....the first one is from biased site I will admit but it has verifiable facts with links to do so...the second is from the Canadian Press !

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/john-stephenson/2008/10/05/mccain-camp-finally-expose-obama-ayers-connection-media-quick-rescuhttp://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5381

These are not fun things to talk about or bring up and I am sure that Sen Clinton had to wait for sometime to get the Rev Wright stuff out there and then the media fought it and forgave immediately. She and President Clinton said a number of times that he could not be elected...ever wonder why ?

did you see where the author of that article is from? A Website that is called Stop the ACLU! Are you kidding....this is worse then the post I put on from the Huffington!
Biased does not even cover it! YIKES BUCCO!!! :shocked::shocked::shocked:

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:02 PM

Bucco....in my opinion this is a little harsh and I haven't read anywhere that either one of these ladies have said those things.

I don't think anyone feels that McCain is a failed and disgraced veteran....but perhaps feel that he is NOT the right person for the presidency. We have had many presidents that were not in the services...this does not qualify him for the job....but is thanked and respected for his service YEARS ago nonetheless.
Palin mentioned that McCain knows how to win the war because he was in a war....there are other people just like him...have gone through similar circumstances....this does not mean they know what the heck to do with the mess we have in Iraq and Afganistan...honestly not one person can do it alone...

As for Obama thinking he is the Savior....has he actually said that...and is there a place where Chelsea, Cologal or anyone else has actually said that? I don't know these ladies from anywhere other than here on TOTV...and I can not imagine either one saying that Obama is their Savior. Just can't see it happening. They may agree with his political stance and want him to be president....or just like him much more than they like McCain...but Savior??? that is a strong word....

Just my thoughts bucco....not arguing with you or just out here backing up my fellow democrats....if you had said this about republicans I would say the same thing....

Thanks for listening.

Here is an exact quote from Sen Obama....the quote is in the below article..

The 5:20 TBA turned out to be his adoration session with lawmakers in the Cannon Caucus Room, where even committee chairmen arrived early, as if for the State of the Union. Capitol Police cleared the halls -- just as they do for the actual president. The Secret Service hustled him in through a side door -- just as they do for the actual president.

Inside, according to a witness, he told the House members, "This is the moment . . . that the world is waiting for," adding: "I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions."

Emphasis added, of course. You might think this true, you might even think it a good thing. But no sensible person should ever say something like this about themselves. "

entire article...

http://www.debatableland.com/the_debatable_land/2008/07/obama-saviour-of-the-world.html

That just for a quick start..to the other parts of your post...Sen McCain's flying record was the subject of a few posts making fun of his ability to fly....landing on that carrier was easy I suppose....today AND yesterday his age as relates to his "mood" was brought up.

Most, maybe all, who post in opposition to Sen Obama do so based on his idealogy. I dont think I have heard one word about him personally OR his wife and family.

HOWEVER...those who oppose Sen McCain have gone into his military history, his wife and how she became such, how many houses he has (Oh and financially we should compare charitable contributions of each candidate esp 2006)...Gov Palin...well, we have done everything but bring up her junior high school teachers (which they will soon)...now she is being called a racist, which was the tune with Sen Clinton also.

I am not going to vote for a candidate with his background, esp when he has inspired such....I dont even know the word...did you see the young kids marching around and chanting his name ? I dont know what the word is but I do feel like I am living a class b movie at times !

Thanks for listening to me.....I got more to say FOR SURE but sure youare tired of it by now !

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:05 PM

did you see where the author of that article is from? A Website that is called Stop the ACLU! Are you kidding....this is worse then the post I put on from the Huffington!
Biased does not even cover it! YIKES BUCCO!!! :shocked::shocked::shocked:I

I ALSO QUALIFIED THAT LINK AS SUCH WHEN I POSTED IT......

I posted it because it had links to allow you to verify and you didnt mention the one from the Canadian press...hey, I can link you to many of these from the primary where the Clinton's were trying to get folks to listen but the media wouldnt do it !

And as a side note...the ACLU is not in my top ten of groups I would support...that is not why I gave you the link though !

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:23 PM

Cologal....AGAIN....dont want to bother you since you seem to feel that ONLY Sen McCain stretches the truth.....just saw this about his speech at the convention...thought just to keep everything in balance...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:35 PM

Not sure why it made you angry...the comments on Bill Ayers....Your candidate had to make the decision also ...that being to bring out Rev Wright and she did. All the Bill Ayers stuff is true..you may not like it but it is true and there is much more and why THAT doesn't make you angry I don't understand at all !!!!!!!

I can understand you frustration with the last 8 years but change for change sake is very very dangerous.

For your reading pleasure....the links below may help you in understanding that what is being said is true....the first one is from biased site I will admit but it has verifiable facts with links to do so...the second is from the Canadian Press !

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/john-stephenson/2008/10/05/mccain-camp-finally-expose-obama-ayers-connection-media-quick-rescu

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5381

These are not fun things to talk about or bring up and I am sure that Sen Clinton had to wait for sometime to get the Rev Wright stuff out there and then the media fought it and forgave immediately. She and President Clinton said a number of times that he could not be elected...ever wonder why ?

Why don't you sight the New York Times....because it will blow a big hole in your post.

So I don't believe your sites and you won't believe mine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/30-lies-refuted-about-aye_b_132109.html

What she said is a lie...flat out. He is NOT paling around with a terrorist.

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:37 PM

Here is an exact quote from Sen Obama....the quote is in the below article.
Inside, according to a witness, he told the House members, "This is the moment . . . that the world is waiting for," adding: "I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions."

Thanks for listening to me.....I got more to say FOR SURE but sure you're tired of it by now !

Red: This in no way states he thinks of himself as a Savior...or the savior...

We do want to go back to our best traditions...and some believe he can take us there....therefore becomes a symbol...someone running for this office should believe they are the face/symbol of change....I think McCain should think this as well.

Green....ah so not true...if I was tired of listening to you...I would not keep coming back...unless perhaps I am just a glutton for punishment! :icon_wink:

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:37 PM

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:40 PM

Red: This in no way states he thinks of himself as a Savior...or the savior...

We do want to go back to our best traditions...and some believe he can take us there....therefore becomes a symbol...someone running for this office should believe they are the face/symbol of change....I think McCain should think this as well.

Green....ah so not true...if I was tired of listening to you...I would not keep coming back...unless perhaps I am just a glutton for punishment! :icon_wink:

From the article

"You might think this true, you might even think it a good thing. But no sensible person should ever say something like this about themselves. "

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:40 PM

I ALSO QUALIFIED THAT LINK AS SUCH WHEN I POSTED IT......

I posted it because it had links to allow you to verify and you didnt mention the one from the Canadian press...hey, I can link you to many of these from the primary where the Clinton's were trying to get folks to listen but the media wouldnt do it !

And as a side note...the ACLU is not in my top ten of groups I would support...that is not why I gave you the link though !

I know you qualified it...but I was still in shock about the fact that it came from someone who said Stop the ACLU....I know that is not why you sent the link...I just was bothered by where it came from...

As a side note...I think the ACLU has done a great deal of good things for a great deal of good people....

but we will not get into a shouting match about them....

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:42 PM

Why don't you sight the New York Times....because it will blow a big hole in your post.

So I don't believe your sites and you won't believe mine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/30-lies-refuted-about-aye_b_132109.html

What she said is a lie...flat out. He is NOT paling around with a terrorist.

One more thing Cologal...if you recall a while back I posted a number of links about Sen Obama's ties to radicals......and of course was summarily dismissed.....well, I did that and didnt even mention Bill Ayers because I dont think it is even close to the worst tie he has.

Sen Obama has more folks in his closet at his age than people accumulate in a lifetime !

Guest

10-06-2008, 01:45 PM

I

I ALSO QUALIFIED THAT LINK AS SUCH WHEN I POSTED IT......

I posted it because it had links to allow you to verify and you didnt mention the one from the Canadian press...hey, I can link you to many of these from the primary where the Clinton's were trying to get folks to listen but the media wouldnt do it !

And as a side note...the ACLU is not in my top ten of groups I would support...that is not why I gave you the link though !

i read the CFP article...says about the same thing only one can tell they don't like the NYTimes....that should say something.....

Guest

10-06-2008, 02:01 PM

http://www.debatableland.com/the_debatable_land/2008/07/obama-saviour-of-the-world.html

Read the whole article and put it into perspective...and for the author to say that no one should say this about themselves is their own opinion....

UPDATE: Ben Smith reports that Obama may have been taken somewhat out of context. Still, I don't understand why he'd take such pride in what the rest of the world may think. Yes, everyone wants to be liked but there may be fewer votes in making a virtue of this sort of international acclamation than Obama thinks. Correspondingly, all his european admirers are likely to be disappointed when his presidency fails to live up to the extravagant hope and hype being invested in it. Anyway, here's what a Democratic source tells Ben Smith:

�His entire point of that riff was that the campaign IS NOT about him. [The Post] left out the important first half of the sentence, which was along the lines of: �It has become increasingly clear in my travel, the campaign, that the crowds, the enthusiasm, 200,000 people in Berlin, is not about me at all. It�s about America. I have just become a symbol � .�

Guest

10-06-2008, 02:09 PM

Cologal...you said you came down here to escape Sen McCain's lying ads...you did not mention Sen Obama AT ALL. Now, can I assume that means you dont think he has lied in his ads. Let me say that all politicians have done it...but to mention one candidate without the others is remiss...allow me to give you a few links to Sen Obama ads direct from fatcheck !!

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/more_social_security_spin.html

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_stem_cell_spinning.html

No Bucco...I said if I thought I could get away from the lying McCain ads then I would come down to TV. Remember I live in Colorado a RED state that is about to go BLUE.

Obama is not running many ads here lately..I am not sure why. I checked the links...neither of those ads have run in Colorado. The ad and the statement that ****ed me off both happened in Colorado.

Still you try to deflect.....

Guest

10-06-2008, 02:20 PM

One more thing Cologal...if you recall a while back I posted a number of links about Sen Obama's ties to radicals......and of course was summarily dismissed.....well, I did that and didnt even mention Bill Ayers because I dont think it is even close to the worst tie he has.

Sen Obama has more folks in his closet at his age than people accumulate in a lifetime !

Bucco...you are going to make me do it again...Yes you have posted at length about William Ayers. I called you on it once and now again.

Originally Posted by Bucco
Okay.....so much of what you say I agree with...

1. You say "You are always going off on Obama's connection to a Weatherman....." UNTIL THIS EVENING I HAVE NEVER EVER, NOT ONCE, NEVER EVEN TYPED THAT NAME...IF YOU SHOW IT TO ME I WILL BE SHOCKED...IT NEVER HAPPENED

2. I dont care if the word alleged is there or not. You choose not to look at the big picture at all. I presented the articles...I read them and many others and came to my conclusion which I tried to explain...I even titled the thread with a ?mark.

3. Yes I know he is a liberal but again you miss my point...I believe...note that is ME,..that he is radical not JUST left wing.

4. While the Communist Party of America has endorsed him strongly, I never once ever ever called him a communist...that was your leap afer reading the articles and I can see how you got there ! There are a lot more articles to read !

4. You find fault and want to discuss ISSUES. Please if you checkmy posts where you will find NO MENTION OF WEATHERMAN, you will find my askingfolks to discuss issues.
HOWEVER...THE most fervent and the most passionate threads and posts have been reserved for Gov Palin and her daughter and her librarian with NO credibility. I have offered some credibility for what I think IS AN ISSUE !

I REALLY HATE TO DO THIS BUT I HAVE TO: Here is your post...with the word Weatherman in it.

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Re: Is this guy really ready for this position. Be honest with yourself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am curious, could you please list the Marxists by name? Such a statement sounds very familiar, like a Senator from Wisconsin back in the 50s stating "I have a list of communists in the State Department." but never providing the list.
__________________________________________________ ______

Surely....not in any particular order...

SAUL ALINSKY....A fellow who lived and died in Chicago in 1972, the author of "Rules for Radicals"..one of his students was Cesar Chavez, and actually Hillary Clinton wrote her thesis on this guy but it was not allowed to see the light of day during the Clinton presidency. The following quote is from a writer who wrote on the connection between Sen Obama and Alinsky..."Finally, in 1983, he decided to follow in the footsteps of one of his heroes, radical leftist and communist fellow traveler, Saul Alinsky. He concluded, "That's what I'll do� I'll organize black folks at the grass roots� for change.". However this is from his memoirs "among his friends he included "the more politically active black students, foreign students, Chicanos, Marxist professors, feminists, and punk rock performance poets."
This is a quote from Sen Obama discussing some things about Alinsky....""Sometimes the tendency in community organizing of the sort done by Alinsky was to downplay the power of words and of ideas when in fact ideas and words are pretty powerful. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal.' Those are just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

There is a lot more out there but I am trying to keep away from the facts twister.

FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS...A labor activist known for his communist connections. He died in 1987 but during the 70s Sen Obama had a very close relationship with him and this is the guy that when Sen Obama refers to Frank his advisor that folks say he is referring to.

Again, I am trying to stay away from some of the other things out there because to my knowledge no verification on some stuff but lots and lots of smoke.

WILIAM AYERS...one of the famous WEATHERMEN of the 60's who bombed and killed. I cannot comment on any relationship here because the only facts are that Ayers contributed to Obamas campaign which in itself means nothing...they did served together at the same time on a board or two in Chicago however.

Now, I could add that Sen Obama has received an enthusiatic endorsement from the American Communist party or mention Rev Wright, etc, but my point is and always has been on this...

My concern with Sen Obama is that there is NO list of accomplishments for him...if you look at the current legislation he proffered in Congress (Global Poverty Act)..that is pretty socialist, and he himself has said he wants to "reallocate the worlds resources".....Lacking any achievements to make a consideration on, TO ME...it would seem that his training and past associates and those he calls mentors would be most important. Now, I find the above plus more but much of that falls into a catagory of hearsay...but this is what I have to go on...nothing more.

This is my concern...I am NOT a supporter of Sen McCain....I agree with some and disagree with other things he has done or stood for. In the case of Sen Obama, my concern is simply that he seems to stand for a very far left, socialist program and that is something I oppose.

I am open minded if you can allay any of my fears !

From your posts.

Unfortunately we will not be able to agree on this point. He didn't pal around with Ayers and he didn't vote 94 times to raise taxes.

Guest

10-06-2008, 02:31 PM

Bucco...I went to your Canadian webiste.....don't bother to link me to that garbage again.

Guest

10-06-2008, 03:56 PM

Bucco...I went to your Canadian webiste.....don't bother to link me to that garbage again.

Ok...couple things on a few different posts. You checked out the ads where Sen Obama lied but they did not happen in Colorado...so then its okay ? Did they not cover the convention in Colorado ? This is a national election !!
I hope you are able to relax here and of course enjoy the truth as told only by Sen Obama !!

Next...I thank you for calling me out on posting on William Ayers..here is the post you were so proud of calling me on....

"WILIAM AYERS...one of the famous WEATHERMEN of the 60's who bombed and killed. I cannot comment on any relationship here because the only facts are that Ayers contributed to Obamas campaign which in itself means nothing...they did served together at the same time on a board or two in Chicago however."

You folks amaze me....a man in his 40's has all these shadowy connections..some like Rev Wright not so shadowy and you just pass it off and spend more time criticizing Gov Palin's children, accent and whatever.

I can only imagine if she or Sen McCain had even one of these shadows in his background !

In essence I defended Sen Obama and thank you for calling that to my attention.

Guest

10-06-2008, 05:39 PM

Bucco.... I was p***ed off about what Palin said and when asked about it she defended it. I watched both conventions...and you know much was said on both sides.

Both McCain a Palin have some past associations....do you really want to go down that road?

Guest

10-06-2008, 05:42 PM

Ok...couple things on a few different posts. You checked out the ads where Sen Obama lied but they did not happen in Colorado...so then its okay ? Did they not cover the convention in Colorado ? This is a national election !!
I hope you are able to relax here and of course enjoy the truth as told only by Sen Obama !!

Next...I thank you for calling me out on posting on William Ayers..here is the post you were so proud of calling me on....

"WILLIAM AYERS...one of the famous WEATHERMEN of the 60's who bombed and killed. I cannot comment on any relationship here because the only facts are that Ayers contributed to Obamas campaign which in itself means nothing...they did served together at the same time on a board or two in Chicago however."

You folks amaze me....a man in his 60's has all these shadowy connections..some like Rev Wright not so shadowy and you just pass it off and spend more time criticizing Gov Paling's children, accent and whatever.

I can only imagine if she or Sen McCain had even one of these shadows in his background !

In essence I defended Sen Obama and thank you for calling that to my attention.

you just pass it off and spend more time criticizing Gov Paling's children, accent and whatever

Just show me where I criticized her children or accent....Show me the
post(s) Bucco.

Guest

10-06-2008, 06:38 PM

bucco.... I was p***ed off about what palin said and when asked about it she defended it. I watched both conventions...and you know much was said on both sides.

Both mccain a palin have some past associations....do you really want to go down that road?

yes yes yes yes ....please

Guest

10-06-2008, 06:46 PM

you just pass it off and spend more time criticizing Gov Paling's children, accent and whatever

Just show me where I criticized her children or accent....Show me the
post(s) Bucco.

I am sorry if I mispoke...what part of her life did you criticize ?

So glad you are living in the world of the truth spoken ONLY by Sen Obama.

Guest

10-06-2008, 07:25 PM

Guest

10-06-2008, 07:25 PM

I am sorry if I mispoke...what part of her life did you criticize ?

So glad you are living in the world of the truth spoken ONLY by Sen Obama.

Bucco...I truly try to keep things civil... As you know Obama is not my guy but this Palin attack really ****ed me off. The only other thing that gets my blood boiling is the Muslim thing and using his middle name.

If I see an Obama ad lying I will post it...

Guest

10-06-2008, 07:29 PM

There is a rumor around that in order to prepare for the debate, Joe Biden watched old tapes of how Johnny Carson treated Charo.

Very appropriate, although Charo doesn't wink quite as much and has a real accent.

Yes, these are important issues to discuss and focus on. Never mind who is running for President...lets make fun of Gov Palin. I am betting those of you who make fun of her intellect (AND her familyand accent) could not muster up the brain cells to even begin to understand the complexities of a state government.

Guest

10-06-2008, 07:44 PM

Why does she keep winking and making that clicking sound with her mouth?

When my husband & I were looking for a golf cart, we stopped off at one of the golf cart dealers located near the Villlages. The saleman we had kept making that clicking noise after he made a point (directed at me). Finally, I had to tell him that I didn't appreciate his condescending attitude toward me, and the fact that he made those clicking noises when he directed comments at me. He didn't do that to my husband!!! Needless to say, we did not buy anything from that dealer!

Guest

10-06-2008, 08:25 PM

Yes, these are important issues to discuss and focus on. Never mind who is running for President...lets make fun of Gov Palin. I am betting those of you who make fun of her intellect (AND her familyand accent) could not muster up the brain cells to even begin to understand the complexities of a state government.

Bucco

Good to see you have reverted to personal attacks on those who disagree with you. You have clearly fallen into the McCain camp!!

PS I can' "muster up" more brain cells than you in my sleep!

Guest

10-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Bucco

Good to see you have reverted to personal attacks on those who disagree with you. You have clearly fallen into the McCain camp!!

PS I can' "muster up" more brain cells than you in my sleep!

First of all , I apologize for the personal attack..you should be offended. I am just fed up with people who attack this woman on such a personal level day in and day out who could not probably accomplish anything near what she has accomplished.

Oh, and you can make your cracks about Sen McCain all you want. I have NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER attacked Sen Obama on a personal level and neither is Sen McCain....this country has a right to know about all the many many shadows in the life of a candidate for President without being called a racist. It is not a comfortable thing to do.....Sen Clinton began but ran out of time.....if everything, and trust me...Ayers is not close to everything...gets aired then I will be happy just so everyone knows about this man ! I am again not speaking of him personally....I am speaking of his idealogy which he changes nearly each year by the way !

Again sorry for the personal thing with you...I was just very angry and spouted off ! I am sure you are smarter than I....never said any different and not sure why you responded that way !!!!