Violence against America by extremists.

[graciegirl]

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.

[Jima64]

Unfortunately a lot of very good people get lumped together with those few that become radicalized. Do all western militia or people that hate something go nuts and shoot people? Do all white supremist go out and shoot people? We have to learn to deal with these problems because they are here at home in this great country. It is very difficult with extreme religious groups because we tend to be politically correct in dealing with them.

[Taltarzac725]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

[RickeyD]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.


Good luck with that.

[Bogie Shooter]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

This is not what I am seeing in this mornings papers and online.................

[Taltarzac725]

Good luck with that.

Actually there are a lot of Muslim groups which are speaking out against the violence done by ISIS as many Muslims have also died in violence by ISIS. The majority of people killed by ISIS are MUSLIMS! Beyond Paris: 10,000s Of Muslims Killed By ISIS Since Declaring Caliphate (http://www.mintpressnews.com/conservatives-ms-are-muslims/211385/)

Muslim condemnations of ISIS-- Here Are the (Many) Muslim Condemnations of ISIS You've Been Looking For - The Bridge Initiative | A Research Project on Islamophobia (http://bridge.georgetown.edu/here-are-the-many-muslim-condemnations-of-isis-youve-been-looking-for/)

[DeanFL]

Gracie,
Of course this is a valid conversation (actually I dislike how that word is now being used politically-wise...) topic.

1. I'm afraid some on the forum will hijack and deep-end it.
2. Speaking of deep-end...Trump statement. OMG, has a bit of validity as far as concerns regarding this group, but.
3. Religious conflicts have gone on for centuries - including Muslim vs XXXXreligions.
4. Current tools in use are not totally effective to ID some (esp Homegrown) radical Muslims - they are using encrypting comms that we cannot overcome yet. scary.
5. In my opinion a % are living amongst us - case in point SB. How many & where - even the FBI can't tell and they are overwhelmed following the Known ones on shore.
6. I'm not a gun-toter but if I lived in a mixed community outside the bubble - sure would.
7. I do have concern for public gatherings such as Squares/theatres etc - even here.
8. Am very concerned that some U.S. mosques are learning grounds for potential extremists - WHY DON"T THE MODERATE MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT???? And now we are finding out that Farook's father (and possibly entire family) are jew-haters.
9. I strongly dislike that so much of the Pres' speech time and the Att General's recent speech focused on violence towards Muslims etc - studies show that hate/violence against jews in the US is 60% of all, Muslims 15% - silence by Washington.
10. Of course we all don't want what happened to Japanese citizens in the US during WWII, but we absolutely cannot discount that ALL Muslim citizens are 100% patriotic - to OUR country. How large is the supposed Trojan Horse here - now and future?

I could go on, but pause for now.

[RickeyD]

Actually there are a lot of Muslim groups which are speaking out against the violence done by ISIS as many Muslims have also died in violence by ISIS. The majority of people killed by ISIS are MUSLIMS! Beyond Paris: 10,000s Of Muslims Killed By ISIS Since Declaring Caliphate (http://www.mintpressnews.com/conservatives-ms-are-muslims/211385/)


Link me a video showing a large group of Muslims demonstrating in public against the Caliphate, in this country or any other. Show me their disdain and indignation towards their fellow Muslims who have committed atrocities in the name of Allah. I'm waiting for your prompt reply.

[Taltarzac725]

Link me a video showing a large group of Muslims demonstrating in public against the Caliphate, in this country or any other. Show me their disdain and indignation towards their fellow Muslims who have committed atrocities in the name of Allah. I'm waiting for your prompt reply.

Home - Not In My Name (http://www.isisnotinmyname.com/)

Check the groups in the US also doing this after the UK group started it. https://www.facebook.com/notinmynameISIS/

'Not in my name': Muslims rally in Italy - The Local (http://www.thelocal.it/20151122/muslims-rally-in-rome-and-milan)

These Muslims are taking much more of a risk too doing this. https://www.facebook.com/1444672609121662/photos/a.1450154048573518.1073741828.1444672609121662/1646380328950888/?type=3&fref=nf

https://www.facebook.com/Muslims-Against-ISIS-1444672609121662/?fref=photo

[RickeyD]

I'm not talking Internet, I'm talking real life get out on the street and show people what they really stand for. Beheadings occur in real time not photoshopped to FB.

[Cedwards38]

How do we know when a Christian person (or anyone else) is heading along the path to extremism? We don't. We accept a person's religion in America, and having that freedom means we can sometimes be abused.

Religion has done an incredible amount of good in this world. It has also done an incredible amount of bad. Extremism of any sort is nearly always a disaster waiting to happen. It's a mental disorder. We are bigger and stronger than that. I believe in the Christian principle of "do to others what you want done to you." I say worship your God as you see fit as long as it doesn't impose any hardship on me. I'll do the same. Keep religion out of government, including schools, and in the churches and homes where it belongs.

I pray that America doesn't let fear and misunderstanding, and destructive group think, and bloviating political demigogs make us lose our heads. Let's do those things in our society that help us avoid the terrorist disasters like San Bernardino and Colorado Springs, but not at the loss of our freedoms and basic principles. Let's have open and non partisan discussions, in a respectful climate, using compromise and reason to find solutions to these problems.

Topics might include:

(1) Gun control
(2) Immigration screening standards
(3) Intelligence gathering
(4) Individual privacy standards
(5) Separation of church and state
(6) Political campaign funding
(7) Law enforcement standards

and I'm sure there are others. I dare say that no one has a complete and thorough solution, but using reason and cooperation, over time, might show the way.

[Taltarzac725]

How do we know when a Christian person (or anyone else) is heading along the path to extremism? We don't. We accept a person's religion in America, and having that freedom means we can sometimes be abused.

Religion has done an incredible amount of good in this world. It has also done an incredible amount of bad. Extremism of any sort is nearly always a disaster waiting to happen. It's a mental disorder. We are bigger and stronger than that. I believe in the Christian principle of "do to others what you want done to you." I say worship your God as you see fit as long as it doesn't impose any hardship on me. I'll do the same. Keep religion out of government, including schools, and in the churches and homes where it belongs.

I pray that America doesn't let fear and misunderstanding, and destructive group think, and bloviating political demigogs make us lose our heads. Let's do those things in our society that help us avoid the terrorist disasters like San Bernardino and Colorado Springs, but not at the loss of our freedoms and basic principles. Let's have open and non partisan discussions, in a respectful climate, using compromise and reason to find solutions to these problems.

Topics might include:

(1) Gun control
(2) Immigration screening standards
(3) Intelligence gathering
(4) Individual privacy standards
(5) Separation of church and state
(6) Political campaign funding
(7) Law enforcement standards

and I'm sure there are others. I dare say that no one has a complete and thorough solution, but using reason and cooperation, over time, might show the way.

Thanks for your level headed approach and decency.

[Taltarzac725]

I'm not talking Internet, I'm talking real life get out on the street and show people what they really stand for. Beheadings occur in real time not photoshopped to FB.

You do not get it. That Italian rally is real and ISIS does go after fellow Muslims who condemn it. You think a two hour march is going to have less of an impact than social media? Social media is how many of these Muslims are radicalized.

[RickeyD]

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

[Taltarzac725]

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War (http://understandingwar.org/)

[RickeyD]

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War (http://understandingwar.org/)


I don't buy the good German argument. For the purpose of efficiency I propose we kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out. Who's side are you on anyway ?

[graciegirl]

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War (http://understandingwar.org/)



I am not sure that there is much difference in the extremists. Some of them use suicide vests...that is the ultimate belief in your faith I guess.


We Catholics were told by sister that to die protecting your faith in God would cause you to be a martyr. I didn't want to die and be a martyr but I guessed it must be a good thing if sister said so.


Most of us American people are more accepting of everyone's religion...but we draw the line at violence against others. Death for sure. How do we know who has the white cowboy hats and who has the black ones?


We don't. So we become afraid of all cowboys. Some a lot, some a little. And that is bigotry I am told. You can't help being afraid. It isn't a decision.

[kittygilchrist]

I was introduced to the word Jihad in 92 touring Israel, when our tour was rerouted due to Intifada, and where bombs were being used to kill Jews on buses, etc.

What is not understood is that these are not acts of terror, they are acts intended to ultimately eradicate Jews, Christians, and anyone else not Islamic. In my opinion the white hat good cowboys, to use Gracie's terms, are bound by their good conscience from calling Muslim teaching in the "holy" Quran, EVIL.

The great lie is that Evil is not truly real, and that people are by nature peaceable, a humanistic ideology that calls evil good and good evil. The lie is turning the world we live in upside down and if this country continues to be ruled by such people we have little hope.

Gracie's question how to recognize which individuals are evil speaks of her gentleness, but may be the wrong question to be asking. Are we willing to die ouselves from the evil ones to protect any Muslim who may be innocent?

I acknowledge that a very clever spirit has been at work over the ages, intent on universal death and destruction, and especially focused on eradication of Jews first and Christians second. We are seeing the face of Islam, now that it's followers are all over the globe and in position to be activated.

Allah never had intention to terrorize. Allah intends to kill everyone who will not worship him, while promising glory to his own suicidal followers.

[Justus]

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War (http://understandingwar.org/)

You're kidding, right? That's like saying there was a difference among the axis countries of WWII. ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram...all united by the same religion, same god, same objective...to kill us and conquer the world in the name of Allah.

[Justus]

I was introduced to the word Jihad in 92 touring Israel, when our tour was rerouted due to Intfada, and where bombs were being used to kill Jews on buses, etc.

What is not understood is that these are not acts of terror, they are acts intended to ultimately eradicate Jews, Christians, and anyone else not Islamic. In my opinion the white hat good cowboys, to use Gracie's terms, are bound by their good conscience from calling Muslim teaching in the "holy" Quran, EVIL.

The great lie is that Evil is not truly real, and that people are by nature peaceable, a humanistic ideology that calls evil good and good evil. The lie is turning the world we live in upside down and if this country continues to be ruled by such people we have little hope.

Gracie's question how to recognize which individuals are evil speaks of her gentleness, but may be the wrong question to be asking. Are we willing to die ouselves from the evil ones to protect any Muslim who may be innocent?

I acknowledge that a very clever spirit has been at work over the ages, intent on universal death and destruction, and especially focused on eradication of Jews first and Christians second. We are seeing the face of Islam, now that it's followers are all over the globe and in position to be activated.

Allah never had intention to terrorize. Allah intends to kill everyone who will not worship him.

Very cogent presentation of the facts. Good for you.

[Justus]

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

We are at war, and you are right. This is not the time for cultural "outreach", but a time to defend our country.

[kittygilchrist]

Very cogent presentation of the facts. Good for you.

Thank you. I would add that the name of the killers may be muslim brotherhood, al queada, isis, boko haram, and on and on....we are not in a war only with isis, but with the words and spirit of Islam.

[Taltarzac725]

Thank you. I would add that the name of the killers may be muslim brotherhood, al queada, isis, boko haram, and on and on....we are not in a war only with isis, but with the words and spirit of Islam.

"Words and spirit of Islam"? What does this mean? About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism (http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/islam_jihad_terrorism.php)

[Taltarzac725]

You're kidding, right? That's like saying there was a difference among the axis countries of WWII. ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram...all united by the same religion, same god, same objective...to kill us and conquer the world in the name of Allah.

I am sure that the soldiers actually fighting in WWII knew very well that they were fighting in different countries especially after that one surrendered and they had to move onto the next one.

And only ISIS seems to have it that they want to create a country only made up of people who practice whatever their version of Islam actually is. That probably depends on whoever actually happens to be in control of ISIS at that moment and the US and its allies do kill off these leaders of ISIS and they did with Saddam Hussein and his group and Al Qaeda and their group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi

Boko Haram is a very different organization than ISIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abubakar_Shekau Boko Harem did swear allegiance to ISIS but that could change quickly as well again if we nail their leaders which does seem to be a priority.

[goodtimesintv]

I am really tired of the vague term "Extremism" used instead of "terrorism" and "religious genocide".

Extremism exists in the mind, thoughts, views and speech, but not necessarily in acts of torture and butchery-killing.

For example, Westboro Baptist is definitely "extremist" in their views and speech and brainwashing of their congregants. But as far as I know, they do not kidnap, rape, behead, shoot, bomb, or crucify their targeted victims.

Islamic terrorists ARE committing these bloody atrocities, and they are committing genocide of Christians as well as Jews. But our government is afraid or too PC to actually SAY it.

A decidedly liberal columnist says it well, here:

Kirsten Powers: John Kerry should recognize Christian genocide (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/12/07/isil-murder-christians-middle-east-recognition-genocide-column/76932274/)

[Taltarzac725]

We are at war, and you are right. This is not the time for cultural "outreach", but a time to defend our country.

The best intelligence is through this outreach.

[cologal]

Thanks for your level headed approach and decency.

I agree

[RickeyD]

The best intelligence is through this outreach.


As your head is being cut from your neck remember that thought.

[Steve9930]

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.

Bottom line, we don't.

If you look back in History many Religions have had periods of violence. The Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Burnings, The Dark Ages, Early Islam. The difference is the violence was either born out of ignorance, fear, and superstition, not out of written text. The Quran has passages that are very explicit about how Islam is to be evangelized to the world. None of those passages are compatible with any 21st Century rational thinking. There is a war today and it has two fronts. The war of bullets is very easy for us to win. The war of ideas is far more complicated. Not all Muslims believe the Quran passages as explicit but some do. Its extremely hard to believe some one whose very foundation used for worship expresses violence and deceit as acceptable tools for spreading their ideas.

Also, Freedom does not come without some risk. When we compromise our ideals because of their actions, they win!

[jebartle]

This has been a very respectful and thoughtful dialogue about a very serious world concern. A good example of TOTVers that contribute thoughts and facts to all of us....Thanks

[dbussone]

The best intelligence is through this outreach.


Tal - would you please explain your thought here in some more detail. I'm missing how you got to your point. Thanks.

[Justus]

I am really tired of the vague term "Extremism" used instead of "terrorism" and "religious genocide".

Extremism exists in the mind, thoughts, views and speech, but not necessarily in acts of torture and butchery-killing.

For example, Westboro Baptist is definitely "extremist" in their views and speech and brainwashing of their congregants. But as far as I know, they do not kidnap, rape, behead, shoot, bomb, or crucify their targeted victims.

Islamic terrorists ARE committing these bloody atrocities, and they are committing genocide of Christians as well as Jews. But our government is afraid or too PC to actually SAY it.

A decidedly liberal columnist says it well, here:

Kirsten Powers: John Kerry should recognize Christian genocide (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/12/07/isil-murder-christians-middle-east-recognition-genocide-column/76932274/)

How much clearer can it be? Thanks for sharing Kirsten Powers' moment of enlightenment; she has more courage to speak out than many of our country's "leaders".

[kittygilchrist]

"Words and spirit of Islam"? What does this mean? About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism (http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/islam_jihad_terrorism.php)

Your site is an Islamist site recruiting converts to Islam. With a sword for a logo...?
Try this for contrast...
You are being redirected... (http://www.jihadwatch.org)

[Taltarzac725]

Tal - would you please explain your thought here in some more detail. I'm missing how you got to your point. Thanks.

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol50no2/html_files/Intelligence_War_2.htm

Refugees would be one of the best sources of information for what is going on in areas coming under ISIS control. They should be treated with respect for what they have gone through and that includes trying to understand their religion whatever that may be.

[Taltarzac725]

Your site is an Islamist site recruiting converts to Islam. With a sword for a logo...?
Try this for contrast...
You are being redirected... (http://www.jihadwatch.org)

You linked site is probably one of the things creating the problems with Muslims.

[Justus]

"Words and spirit of Islam"? What does this mean? About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism (http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/islam_jihad_terrorism.php)

With due respect, this is written by a muslim propagandist. Read between the lines and see that the evil they are sworn to destroy is America, and every other westernized country they believe is their "home". Then look back in history 1400 years and see the civilizations destroyed for not "submitting".

Despite the current lapse in leadership, America is too strong to allow this to happen.

[Taltarzac725]

With due respect, this is written by a muslim propagandist. Read between the lines and see that the evil they are sworn to destroy is America, and every other westernized country they believe is their "home". Then look back in history 1400 years and see the civilizations destroyed for not "submitting".

Despite the current lapse in leadership, America is too strong to allow this to happen.

Is it? Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - What Jihad is, and is not (http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9)

About Jihad - Islam Jihad and Terrorism (http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/islam_jihad_terrorism.php)

You destroy organizations like ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. but leave Islam to its 2 BILLION or so followers. Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/)

[Finallyfree]

There is an organization in Orlando called The Islamic Center of Central Florida. They do presentations on what is and is not moderate Islamic beliefs. It can be very enlightening IF someone wants to learn. All Muslims pray 5 times a day and it does not have to be at a mosque. When in the Middle East we would see people pull off the highway to pray. The more knowledge we have the better to understand and deal with the extremists. Good luck in gaming real information and not just believing what our religious extremists say.

[Steve9930]

Just remember this as you listen to the talk: It is acceptable for a Muslim to Lie if it is beneficial to the spreading Islam. It is also in the teaches of Mohammed, to be cooperative and submissive until you have the ability to do otherwise. These statements make it very hard for me to believe that when I'm told Islam is a religion of peace that they are believable. Also ISIS is not waving a bible in their hand as they commit their atrocities.

[graciegirl]

Are you Muslim? Are women directed to pray five times a day? Am I correct that Muslim women aren't allowed to pray with men or use a mosque.

Are there different kinds of Muslims like different kinds of Christians; Baptists and Catholics, etc.?

Do all Muslims wear the lace caps and Burkas.

[Justus]

You linked site is probably one of the things creating the problems with Muslims.

Why, because it tells the truth? Muslims don't need anything to create problems; they have come equipped with their own set. You sound as though your mind is made up, not to be confused with the facts.

As the investigation progresses, this "peaceful muslim family" is emerging as much more insidious than they originally purported to be. They now bear all the earmarks of a terrorist sleeper cell. Why are you defending the indefensible? And forgive me for iterating what RickeyD asked, 'Whose side are you on?'

By the way, UTube has some interesting films of muslim "refugees" on the German border, destroying food given by aid workers, because it wasn't halal. Their children were starving and thirsty, but they threw a truckload of perfectly good food and water under train tracks. Wonderful people.

[Shimpy]

Link me a video showing a large group of Muslims demonstrating in public against the Caliphate, in this country or any other. Show me their disdain and indignation towards their fellow Muslims who have committed atrocities in the name of Allah. I'm waiting for your prompt reply.

Don't hold your breath......that would be one hell of a long wait.

[Taltarzac725]

There is an organization in Orlando called The Islamic Center of Central Florida. They do presentations on what is and is not moderate Islamic beliefs. It can be very enlightening IF someone wants to learn. All Muslims pray 5 times a day and it does not have to be at a mosque. When in the Middle East we would see people pull off the highway to pray. The more knowledge we have the better to understand and deal with the extremists. Good luck in gaming real information and not just believing what our religious extremists say.

Thanks for posting this. I Minored in Religious Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno. Also got BAs in History and Philosophy. My Medieval History Professor talked often about Jihad and it was a very powerful force in the spread of Islam by conquerors who used religion to gain territories and riches. Some Muslims are using the same approach now and added committing all kinds of atrocities as well. These are people corrupting certain ideas found in the Muslim religion. It does have those ideas of struggle but that means something quite different to most Muslims than it does to those who use violence for whatever end.

[tomwed]

This has been a very respectful and thoughtful dialogue about a very serious world concern. A good example of TOTVers that contribute thoughts and facts to all of us....Thanks
I'm guessing you got a lot of posters blocked.

[Taltarzac725]

Why, because it tells the truth? Muslims don't need anything to create problems; they have come equipped with their own set. You sound as though your mind is made up, not to be confused with the facts.

As the investigation progresses, this "peaceful muslim family" is emerging as much more insidious than they originally purported to be. They now bear all the earmarks of a terrorist sleeper cell. Why are you defending the indefensible? And forgive me for iterating what RickeyD asked, 'Whose side are you on?'

By the way, UTube has some interesting films of muslim "refugees" on the German border, destroying food given by aid workers, because it wasn't halal. Their children were starving and thirsty, but they threw a truckload of perfectly good food and water under train tracks. Wonderful people.

No it does not tell the truth. It covers a very small part of what is happening on the world and slants it for all its worth.

[Taltarzac725]

Don't hold your breath......that would be one hell of a long wait.

I already posted that. The demonstrations in Italy.

[Steve9930]

Are you Muslim? Are women directed to pray five times a day? Am I correct that Muslim women aren't allowed to pray with men or use a mosque.

Are there different kinds of Muslims like different kinds of Christians; Baptists and Catholics, etc.?

Do all Muslims wear the lace caps and Burkas.

Islam is a Male Dominated Society.

[Taltarzac725]

Islam is a Male Dominated Society.

It varies by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai Malala Yousafzai is a Muslim and is doing wonderful things for educating women in Muslim countries.

Heads of State | Muslim Women | WISE Muslim Women (http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/muslimwomen/summary/C86/category-search/heads_of_state)

[graciegirl]

Then there is this;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoridectomy

[tomwed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjGL6YY6oMs

Here's a good but dated interview.

[Jimturner]

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.

After reading your comments and concerns, my opinion is that most people know more than you about Muslims. Most Muslims are moderate on Islamic teachings and much safer to our way of life than skin heads or racists that America is filled with. I would fear domestic terrorists more than Muslim refugees.

[goodtimesintv]

Then there is this;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoridectomy

This is a must-see, short interview last night with Ayaan Hirsi Ali who was raised Muslim in Somalia and was subjected to the heinous genital mutilation as a child.

She attempts to explain here why/how Westerners cannot understand how mothers and other relatives CAN go along with the atrocities their son and daughter-in-law might be committing. When they fully share in the ideology and believe in the end game (anihilation of all us "infidels") etc., it seems they don't see anything wrong with the means of achieving that "end game".

(If I understand her right, "the end justify the means, even if it means being a father and mother leaving forever their 6-month-old baby with Grandma who knows they are going to go and mass murder a bloodbath.) Her book "Heretic" is one of her many educated attempts to explain it.

Do not miss: (3 minutes)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali on growing skepticism of terrorists' family
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5HwVkuFdWg

[lanemb]

Just listen to the following link. Big brother supports and creates the mess we are living in.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6PzT8vEvYPg

[tomwed]

Just listen to the following link. Big brother supports and creates the mess we are living in.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6PzT8vEvYPg
I watched it. I tried to fact check it but couldn't find any red flags. I feel like Trump would be all over this. Am I missing something?

[dbussone]

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol50no2/html_files/Intelligence_War_2.htm



Refugees would be one of the best sources of information for what is going on in areas coming under ISIS control. They should be treated with respect for what they have gone through and that includes trying to understand their religion whatever that may be.


Understood. Thank you.

[Steve9930]

I know everyone is all over the Donald's case about his latest comments but according to US Law he is correct in what he is advocating.

Islam, by law, is prohibited from US immigration (http://www.usacarry.com/forums/off-topic/53275-islam-law-prohibited-us-immigration.html)

I searched and found the sections that support the arguments.

[Steve9930]

I watched it. I tried to fact check it but couldn't find any red flags. I feel like Trump would be all over this. Am I missing something?

The program she talks about is real. I have some one I know that is involved with the resettlement of refugees.

[graciegirl]

Just listen to the following link. Big brother supports and creates the mess we are living in.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6PzT8vEvYPg



Very interesting. VERY.

[Taltarzac725]

I know everyone is all over the Donald's case about his latest comments but according to US Law he is correct in what he is advocating.

Islam, by law, is prohibited from US immigration (http://www.usacarry.com/forums/off-topic/53275-islam-law-prohibited-us-immigration.html)

I searched and found the sections that support the arguments.

That would be a very hard sell in front of just about any judge in the US. Why? Because you would have to do this on a case-by-case basis showing that this specific Muslim was a terrorist wanting to overthrow the US. If that were true you could probably use the Patriot Act to prevent entry and/or lock this individual up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act,_Title_IV

[Steve9930]

That would be a very hard sell in front of just about any judge in the US. Why? Because you would have to do this on a case-by-case basis showing that this specific Muslim was a terrorist wanting to overthrow the US. If that were true you could probably use the Patriot Act to prevent entry and/or lock this individual up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act,_Title_IV

Just finished watching an interview on Hannity and the Security Chairman. He made a very interesting comment on this business about putting a pause on bringing the Syrian Refugees to the US. He said they did a pause exactly like what is being called for with the Iraqi refugees. He also indicated they have evidence now that ISIS is trying to infiltrate the refugees to get to the US.

[mtdjed]

Before the Donald is over criticized for his statements , one should recognize that he is a business man. The plan to admit hoards of unvetted persons by the government against States wishes sets up this response by any negotiator. You want all and I say none. Let us look at the facts and plan and do it right. I can be no more critical of all vs none. Let us get it right and not be more critical of the none guy vs the all guy.

[kittygilchrist]

WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See (http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-woman-who-was-raised-muslim-just-dropped-truth-bomb-about-islam-every-lib-must-see/)

[Taltarzac725]

WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See (http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-woman-who-was-raised-muslim-just-dropped-truth-bomb-about-islam-every-lib-must-see/)

She lost me at hello!

[billethkid]

WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See (http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-woman-who-was-raised-muslim-just-dropped-truth-bomb-about-islam-every-lib-must-see/)

the video is no longer on the link provided, however it is available on you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79prQ3BN8RQ

If it does not come up then do a search on the title "silence is consent".

If one is making any attempt at all trying to understand what is going on around us involving "muslims" and what they believe, this girls account should definitely be included....even if it only becomes a basis for challenging what she states to be true, factual or experience.

It is almost 9 minutes long which can be a challenge for some. But if you want an eye opener then just sit and watch. The you decide what to do next about it.

Is she just telling us what we want to hear? I personally do not know. However, I am now committed to learn more using her presentation as a basis.

One thing is for certain, as presented she is very convincing because it does fit that which we are witnessing around the world as we live.

Watch it and decide for yourself.

What do you think about her presentation? Her intent?

[Taltarzac725]

the video is no longer on the link provided, however it is available on you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79prQ3BN8RQ

If it does not come up then do a search on the title "silence is consent".

If one is making any attempt at all trying to understand what is going on around us involving "muslims" and what they believe, this girls account should definitely be included....even if it only becomes a basis for challenging what she states to be true, factual or experience.

It is almost 9 minutes long which can be a challenge for some. But if you want an eye opener then just sit and watch. The you decide what to do next about it.

Is she just telling us what we want to hear? I personally do not know. However, I am now committed to learn more using her presentation as a basis.

One thing is for certain, as presented she is very convincing because it does fit that which we are witnessing around the world as we live.

Watch it and decide for yourself.

I could only watch a minute or so of her spiel. I did check various Internet sites about what is or what is not in The Koran. It certainly has murder, rape, slavery, conquest, betrayal, etc.

Let's look a this history of the song Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace: The Story of John Newton (http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html)

Amazing Grace*(2007) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10007415-amazing_grace/)

https://youtu.be/apIqbOQZNj4

12 Years a Slave (2013) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/12_years_a_slave/)

[gomoho]

[QUOTE=Taltarzac725;1156363]I could only watch a minute or so of her spiel. I did check various Internet sites about what is or what is not in The Koran. It certainly has murder, rape, slavery, conquest, betrayal, etc.

Let's look a this history of the song Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace: The Story of John Newton (http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html)

Amazing Grace*(2007) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10007415-amazing_grace/)

https://youtu.be/apIqbOQZNj4[/QUOT E]

What in the world does this have to do with Muslims and Jihad? You might want to continue listening to the rest of her "spiel" and learn some more about Islam.

[Taltarzac725]

[QUOTE=Taltarzac725;1156363]I could only watch a minute or so of her spiel. I did check various Internet sites about what is or what is not in The Koran. It certainly has murder, rape, slavery, conquest, betrayal, etc.

Let's look a this history of the song Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace: The Story of John Newton (http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html)

Amazing Grace*(2007) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10007415-amazing_grace/)

https://youtu.be/apIqbOQZNj4[/QUOT E]

What in the world does this have to do with Muslims and Jihad? You might want to continue listening to the rest of her "spiel" and learn some more about Islam.

What other great book has murder, rape, slavery, incest, famine, etc.? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Girl_in_Search_of_God

Have any of you actually talked to a Muslim in the US??? Malaysia? Iran? Iraq? Egypt? I mean a Muslim in 2015 not 666!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_7th-century_Muslim_history

[graciegirl]

I could only watch a minute or so of her spiel. I did check various Internet sites about what is or what is not in The Koran. It certainly has murder, rape, slavery, conquest, betrayal, etc.

Let's look a this history of the song Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace: The Story of John Newton (http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html)

Amazing Grace*(2007) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10007415-amazing_grace/)

https://youtu.be/apIqbOQZNj4

12 Years a Slave*(2013) - Rotten Tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/12_years_a_slave/)





You know I respect you Tal, and know that you have a level head and a fair mind, but here is my response to your post.


Most of us have intermingled with Jews and Christians or have been raised a Jew or a Christian, we all certainly have good friends who are Jews and Christians and many of us know people who are Hindu and other Eastern religions because we all INTERMINGLE. (That is my new word, I heard it last night from someone who lived for several years in Paris and said that the Muslims there did not intermingle.)


We know about Jews and know that many push the value of education to their children because they have been taught by their parents that owning land is iffy because of being targeted by groups historically. We know they circumcise their baby boys and it is a religious ceremony and we know that they have bar and bat mitzpah at around 12 at it is a big deal socially and for religious reasons. We know that this works because you don't see many Jews asking for anything other than a very wise business deal. We know that Catholics are baptized as infants and then are expected to say they stand for the faith at nine or ten in confirmation. We know they teach only one marriage, no birth control and no abortion and we know hardly anyone who goes along with some of that and they go to Mass every Sunday. We know that Protestants range from very conservative Christians who don't dance to very liberal Christians who don't get married. It seems that the middle are Lutherans, Episcopalians and Methodists. Most of us can say personally that no Jew or no Christian they know personally wanted to kill anyone and martyr themselves for religion. We may not all agree about the nuts and bolts and don't understand completely but only very radical Christians want to kill people who perform abortions. I have NEVER met anyone personally who voiced that opinion. And I really intermingle.


I don't get the sense that Muslims want to share their views unless you come to join. I don't think they feel at all ecumenical. I hear a few say they think it's horrible the killings, but I don't hear what I wish I would hear from big groups of them and that worries me. A few liberal ones maybe, but they aren't the ones with the robes and the beards and the ones I hear saying stuff are women and I am really sure they aren't the religious person in charge. It is a lot like there are no women priests.


Please read between the lines that I am worried and that I have my suspicions that being kind and fair and accepting and doing all the things that good Americans and good people are taught and expected to do may be putting most of us in a very dangerous position, maybe not tomorrow but next year and in ten years.


I won't be here probably in ten years because I am 76 but I treasure my grandchildren like we all do and love many of my friends grandchildren as well. AND I really love this country. And I love many liberal and conservative people who go to a lot of different places to worship and I love a lot of folks who don't believe in God.

[DeanFL]

You know I respect you Tal, and know that you have a level head and a fair mind, but here is my response to your post.


Most of us have intermingled with Jews and Christians or have been raised a Jew or a Christian, we all certainly have good friends who are Jews and Christians and many of us know people who are Hindu and other Eastern religions because we all INTERMINGLE. (That is my new word, I heard it last night from someone who lived for several years in Paris and said that the Muslims there did not intermingle.)


We know about Jews and know that many push the value of education to their children because they have been taught by their parents that owning land is iffy because of being targeted by groups historically. We know they circumcise their baby boys and it is a religious ceremony and we know that they have bar and bat mitzpah at around 12 at it is a big deal socially and for religious reasons. We know that this works because you don't see many Jews asking for anything other than a very wise business deal. We know that Catholics are baptized as infants and then are expected to say they stand for the faith at nine or ten in confirmation. We know they teach only one marriage, no birth control and no abortion and we know hardly anyone who goes along with some of that and they go to Mass every Sunday. We know that Protestants range from very conservative Christians who don't dance to very liberal Christians who don't get married. It seems that the middle are Lutherans, Episcopalians and Methodists. Most of us can say personally that no Jew or no Christian they know personally wanted to kill anyone and martyr themselves for religion. We may not all agree about the nuts and bolts and don't understand completely but only very radical Christians want to kill people who perform abortions. I have NEVER met anyone personally who voiced that opinion. And I really intermingle.


I don't get the sense that Muslims want to share their views unless you come to join. I don't think they feel at all ecumenical. I hear a few say they think it's horrible the killings, but I don't hear what I wish I would hear from big groups of them and that worries me. A few liberal ones maybe, but they aren't the ones with the robes and the beards and the ones I hear saying stuff are women and I am really sure they aren't the religious person in charge. It is a lot like there are no women priests.


Please read between the lines that I am worried and that I have my suspicions that being kind and fair and accepting and doing all the things that good Americans and good people are taught and expected to do may be putting most of us in a very dangerous position, maybe not tomorrow but next year and in ten years.


I won't be here probably in ten years because I am 76 but I treasure my grandchildren like we all do and love many of my friends grandchildren as well. AND I really love this country. And I love many liberal and conservative people who go to a lot of different places to worship and I love a lot of folks who don't believe in God.
-----------------

Gracie - I read your post out loud to my partner, Phyllis (as I was so impressed with your thoughts here).

I ended (reading your post) it by saying "AND FOR THAT REASON I AM THROWING MY HAT IN THE RING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"!

Phyllis laughed - and I said Gracie would have a wonderful following - and probably do a better job in the Oval Office, using her deep experience and level head. Can you handle the yearlong campaign? Go Gracie.

Your post was absolutely perfectly right-on!!! LOVE IT.

[Buckeye Bob]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.


The non-radicalized Muslims MUST become part of the solution or they are part of the problem.

[Taltarzac725]

The non-radicalized Muslims MUST become part of the solution or they are part of the problem.

I believe they are very much involved. Paris Attacks: Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism (http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/)

I am a Lutheran and hate the violence and fear generated by the actions of some very warped organizations, people, groups, which take up the calling of some religion for their own evil purposes.

Most of the great world religions have extremely inhumane actions of followers attached to them.

Would you judge the Turks for instance on what happened to Constantinople in 1453? The Sack of Constantinople, 1453 (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/constantinople.htm)

The followers of the Jewish religion on the actions of King David?

There were atrocities carried out by the followers of Martin Luther in the Reformation. These were very bloody religious wars. But, I do not think about these all that much in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

[Steve9930]

There is a very simple way of looking at this and it is, Sharia Law is incompatible with the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the United States. If you are a Muslim and you are coming to the United States because you believe that our Constitution and Bill of Rights is what should be used to govern and are willing to stand with me to defend these principles then by all means I welcome you. If you are coming because you thing that Sharia Law should be the Law of the Land then you should not come here because what you preach is treason against the United States of America.

[NavyNJ]

Have seen that video (of the young lady expressing her thoughts on Islam, Muslims, etc.) before and found it touched on some valid points to begin an investigation of the issues being struggled with of late.

For those with a true interest in developing a greater understanding of something societies have struggled with forever, and that has particular application in the last several decades of "Islamic Extremism", take a crack at this (now nearly 50-yr old) work by Eric Hoffer:

The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (Perennial Classics): Eric Hoffer: 9780060505912: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/The-True-Believer-Movements-Perennial/dp/0060505915)

In fact, you might even get a lot out of several of the Customer Reviews of the book! Very thorough and insightful in their own right.

This idea of the "True Believer", overlaid with the tenets of Islam, as put forth in the teachings of Muhammed, is a volatile combination of ideology, mantra, consciousness and self-awareness that can lead to much of what we are seeing and experiencing in current times. Tough subject to get wrapped around, to be sure!

[Taltarzac725]

Have seen that video (of the young lady expressing her thoughts on Islam, Muslims, etc.) before and found it touched on some valid points to begin an investigation of the issues being struggled with of late.

For those with a true interest in developing a greater understanding of something societies have struggled with forever, and that has particular application in the last several decades of "Islamic Extremism", take a crack at this (now nearly 50-yr old) work by Eric Hoffer:

The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements (Perennial Classics): Eric Hoffer: 9780060505912: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/The-True-Believer-Movements-Perennial/dp/0060505915)

In fact, you might even get a lot out of several of the Customer Reviews of the book! Very thorough and insightful in their own right.

This idea of the "True Believer", overlaid with the tenets of Islam, as put forth in the teachings of Muhammed, is a volatile combination of ideology, mantra, consciousness and self-awareness that can lead to much of what we are seeing and experiencing in current times. Tough subject to get wrapped around, to be sure!

That's a very good book. I had a friend at the University of Denver Graduate School of Librarianship and Information Management who was getting an advanced degree-- a MA in Librarianship like me. He was from the University of Mosul and had a brother in the Republican Guard or something like that. This was in 1983-1984. After he graduated (?) he went back to Iraq. His letters to me became more and more radicalized so by 1986 we broke any correspondence off. His family relationships especially with the brother in the military made him into a true believer for Saddam Hussein.

ISIS has had control of Mosul for a year or more and they looted that library. ISIS Destroys Iraq's University of Mosul (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/10/23/isis-destroys-iraqs-university-mosul/) I have no idea what happened to that ex-friend I had. It is not a wise idea to have any contact with people who live in ISIS controlled areas.


My Iraqi ex-friend was very traditional and I was never allowed to be even in the same room as his wife. The other Muslim/Arabs from various different Middle Eastern countries who were studying various subjects at the University of Denver were all quite different from one another.

I did get an introduction to the Muslim religion from this group of Arabs. It is hard to overgeneralize about them though. Their families, ambitions, etc. had a big impact on making them quite different from one another.

The Kurd jokes really bothered me when I was around them.

And my ex-Iraqi friend's dislike of dogs-- which he thought were way too dirty-- also bugged me a great deal.

[billethkid]

I think history has a place in the way we view some things.

Historical events of the past do not in any way justify, clarify or validate what we are dealing with in the world today.

Far too many followers of various religions pick and choose that which is convenient for one's way of life, actions or beliefs.

Historically when a religious teaching stated to go and kill those who did not follow or believe or what ever.....they were tribal. They could go as far as their horse or wooden sail boat could go to a known neighboring tribe that was different.

Has nothing to do with the very small world we live in today with radicals now posing ideologies and they do expext retribution worldwide for non believers.

And we do have to be much more pro active....not tolerant....against hose who have sworn to kill us all....no matter what their history did or said. Or what some individual does or says at his home.

We have no choice but to assess with the best knowledge we have and address the issue that if we do not win they will......hence take the fight to where they live and do something about it.

[kittygilchrist]

Educationally Credentialed former Muslim speaks to Obama. Best video I have seen. Tal this is what I meant when I said we are at war with the words...Quran..and spirit..Allah.
https://www.facebook.com/191900549668/videos/10152721801409669/

[Taltarzac725]

Educationally Credentialed former Muslim speaks to Obama. Best video I have seen. Tal this is what I meant when I said we are at war with the words...Quran..and spirit..Allah.
https://www.facebook.com/191900549668/videos/10152721801409669/

It seems to be about ISIS which is about as Muslim IMHO as the Jim Jones sect was to Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

[kittygilchrist]

It seems to be about ISIS which is about as Muslim IMHO as the Jim Jones sect was to Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

It is absolutely not about isis or isil, it is the truth about Islam brainwashing all muslims to kill all unbelievers in Allah through the words of mohammed.

[Challenger]

It is absolutely not about isis or isil, it is the truth about Islam brainwashing all muslims to kill all unbelievers in Allah through the words of mohammed.'

"Islam brainwashing all Muslims to kill All unbelievers" Where did you find that statement??

[RickeyD]

It is absolutely not about isis or isil, it is the truth about Islam brainwashing all muslims to kill all unbelievers in Allah through the words of mohammed.


[emoji848] [emoji106]

[Jimturner]

It is absolutely not about isis or isil, it is the truth about Islam brainwashing all muslims to kill all unbelievers in Allah through the words of mohammed.

If we all became Muslims, we could all live happily ever after, right? I think it's Gods way of culling the population.

[RickeyD]

If we all became Muslims, we could all live happily ever after, right? I think it's Gods way of culling the population.


Nope, global climate change should take care of that. [emoji91][emoji300]

[LuckySevens]

I think history has a place in the way we view some things.

Historical events of the past do not in any way justify, clarify or validate what we are dealing with in the world today.

Far too many followers of various religions pick and choose that which is convenient for one's way of life, actions or beliefs.

Historically when a religious teaching stated to go and kill those who did not follow or believe or what ever.....they were tribal. They could go as far as their horse or wooden sail boat could go to a known neighboring tribe that was different.

Has nothing to do with the very small world we live in today with radicals now posing ideologies and they do expext retribution worldwide for non believers.

And we do have to be much more pro active....not tolerant....against hose who have sworn to kill us all....no matter what their history did or said. Or what some individual does or says at his home.

We have no choice but to assess with the best knowledge we have and address the issue that if we do not win they will......hence take the fight to where they live and do something about it.


WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See (http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-woman-who-was-raised-muslim-just-dropped-truth-bomb-about-islam-every-lib-must-see/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_content=2015-12-09&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons)

[Justus]

Educationally Credentialed former Muslim speaks to Obama. Best video I have seen. Tal this is what I meant when I said we are at war with the words...Quran..and spirit..Allah.
https://www.facebook.com/191900549668/videos/10152721801409669/

Kitty,

I have seen this brave young man, and this video, before. I agree with you 100% on your perspective. Thank you for sharing this link.

[Justus]

If we all became Muslims, we could all live happily ever after, right? I think it's Gods way of culling the population.

So are you proposing submission as an alternative to mass genocide as dictated by the prophet? Because that's what it sounds like...

[Taltarzac725]

If we all became Muslims, we could all live happily ever after, right? I think it's Gods way of culling the population.

Actually the Muslims/Arabs have been murdering one another over who has the correct interpretation of what Mohammad said and what Allah wants since the 640s or so. The Sunni-Shia Divide (http://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-and-human-rights/sunni-shia-divide/p33176#!/?cid=otr-marketing_url-sunni_shia_infoguide) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

Also about the usual human sins mainly pride but also greed, lust, sloth, anger, jealousy, envy, etc.

It seems to have a lot to do with control of oil too as far as the 1900s and 2000s are concerned.

As far as Global Warming is concerned Florida and other low lying areas probably have the most to worry.

[Taltarzac725]

It is absolutely not about isis or isil, it is the truth about Islam brainwashing all muslims to kill all unbelievers in Allah through the words of mohammed.

Captured Terrorist: Interview with Sect in Turkey Recruiting Members for ISIS - AWD News (http://awdnews.com/top-news/captured-terrorist-interview-with-sect-in-turkey-recruiting-members-for-isis)

It does look like the kind of brainwashing that showed up in some Christian radical sects like the People's Temple of Jim Jones.

[Jimturner]

So are you proposing submission as an alternative to mass genocide as dictated by the prophet? Because that's what it sounds like...

All religions have violence at their core. I would suggest we all see organized religion for what it is before all mankind is dead and gone. Hopefully, atheists will inherit whatever is left of the earth after gods children destroy each other.

[tomwed]

All religions have violence at their core. I would suggest we all see organized religion for what it is before all mankind is dead and gone. Hopefully, atheists will inherit whatever is left of the earth after gods children destroy each other.
Do you watch Bill Maher?

He has an interesting opinion that you might not predict. He also sees religion, all religions to be the problem for the reasons you mentioned. But he also believes that the core of Islam is not live and let live but to convert no matter how long it takes or what measures it takes to do so.

He also took an early position, like Trump and Sanders oddly enough, that invading Iraq or Afghanistan would prove to be a mistake.

If someone disagrees that these are his feelings, I'll reexamine.

or I'll delete all this if someone says the other posts were not political and this one is.

[Justus]

All religions have violence at their core. I would suggest we all see organized religion for what it is before all mankind is dead and gone. Hopefully, atheists will inherit whatever is left of the earth after gods children destroy each other.

Millions of decent people look to their religions for guidance and to provide a yardstick for decency and civility for future generations. That religions have been the focal point of violence at certain historical times is a fact that civilized societies have come to understand, and have evolved beyond.

There are many peaceful organized religions in this world, whose adherents do not crave the blood of nonbelievers. Savages are unable to progress beyond the dark ages their forbearers created. This is what threatens our world today...not organized religion. As far as atheists are concerned, atheism is an organized religion unto itself. If they do inherit this world, it will be because the savages have won.

[tomwed]

Millions of decent people look to their religions for guidance and to provide a yardstick for decency and civility for future generations. That religions have been the focal point of violence at certain historical times is a fact that civilized societies have come to understand, and have evolved beyond.

There are many peaceful organized religions in this world, whose adherents do not crave the blood of nonbelievers. Savages are unable to progress beyond the dark ages their forbearers created. This is what threatens our world today...not organized religion. As far as atheists are concerned, atheism is an organized religion unto itself. If they do inherit this world, it will be because the savages have won.
However, many of the country's 46 million unaffiliated adults [33 percent of Americans are simply unaffiliated and 13 percent are atheist/agnostic] are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%).Oct 9, 2012
Pew: 20% of Americans Are Now Atheist, Agnostic or ...

No group faces more discrimination in politics than atheists, according to a 2012 Gallup poll. The poll found 43 percent of voters said they would not vote for an atheist candidate for president -- a higher percentage than Muslims or gays and lesbians. There are currently no openly atheist members of Congress.Apr 2, 2015
Religious freedom debate now includes atheists — aka the ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../religious-freedom...

13% is higher than the Black population, Gay population or Muslim population yet no openly atheist members of Congress. I think people are afraid to call themselves atheists because a repercussions.

[Justus]

However, many of the country's 46 million unaffiliated adults [33 percent of Americans are simply unaffiliated and 13 percent are atheist/agnostic] are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%).Oct 9, 2012
Pew: 20% of Americans Are Now Atheist, Agnostic or ...

No group faces more discrimination in politics than atheists, according to a 2012 Gallup poll. The poll found 43 percent of voters said they would not vote for an atheist candidate for president -- a higher percentage than Muslims or gays and lesbians. There are currently no openly atheist members of Congress.Apr 2, 2015
Religious freedom debate now includes atheists — aka the ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../religious-freedom...

13% is higher than the Black population, Gay population or Muslim population yet no openly atheist members of Congress. I think people are afraid to call themselves atheists because a repercussions.

Tom,
I don't believe that discrimination is the reason for atheists not declaring their belief...I believe they are superstitious and are afraid if they say it out loud then suddenly die, they won't go to heaven.

[tomwed]

Tom,
I don't believe that discrimination is the reason for atheists not declaring their belief...I believe they are superstitious and are afraid if they say it out loud then suddenly die, they won't go to heaven.
I agree with you. They don't chose atheism because they embrace discrimination. It's a personal choice.

But isn't it odd that it's the personal choice of over 10% of the population yet not one congressman chooses to tell his constituency he is an atheist or makes that choice.

[RickeyD]

Tom,
I don't believe that discrimination is the reason for atheists not declaring their belief...I believe they are superstitious and are afraid if they say it out loud then suddenly die, they won't go to heaven.

Atheists do not believe. It's an individual choice with each person not affiliated with other atheists. For the most part they do not seek each other out because it is NOT a belief system in any way. They are discriminated against because people equate atheists with evil, which they are not. Evil is in fact the obverse side of the religious coin. If one declares him or herself an atheist superstitious thoughts do not exist, that is the realm of the agnostic.

[kittygilchrist]

Hmmm...I was going to say how nice that we stayed on topic and had civil discussion. I was busy and by the time I got back I was too late.

[Steve9930]

Hmmm...I was going to say how nice that we stayed on topic and had civil discussion. I was busy and by the time I got back I was too late.

I think the horse has been beaten to death.....

[gomoho]

Atheists do not believe. It's an individual choice with each person not affiliated with other atheists. For the most part they do not seek each other out because it is NOT a belief system in any way. They are discriminated against because people equate atheists with evil, which they are not. Evil is in fact the obverse side of the religious coin. If one declares him or herself an atheist superstitious thoughts do not exist, that is the realm of the agnostic.

Totally off topic, but doesn't saying you don't believe in something confirm its existence? How do you not believe in something that isn't?

[tomwed]

I think the horse has been beaten to death.....
I hear that expression quite a bit in these kinds of threads.

[tomwed]

Totally off topic, but doesn't saying you don't believe in something confirm its existence? How do you not believe in something that isn't?
Suppose you don't believe in global warming or the tooth faerie. Using your logic wouldn't that mean that it exists? Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

[billethkid]

:loco:

:popcorn::popcorn:

[RickeyD]

Totally off topic, but doesn't saying you don't believe in something confirm its existence? How do you not believe in something that isn't?

Not believing the belief does not confirm its existence, it confirms the belief is not reality.

[mtdjed]

Good news. Home Security correctly vetted Tashfeen Malik this week. At least they now know they were wrong last year. But they got it right now. Perhaps, using the newfound knowledge, they can properly vet new immigrants before they allow entry.

Or is it too much work?

[kcrazorbackfan]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

You really don't think that muslims are going to do that, do you? Birds of a feather do flock together.

IT has began.

[LuckySevens]

the video is no longer on the link provided, however it is available on you tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79prQ3BN8RQ

If it does not come up then do a search on the title "silence is consent".

If one is making any attempt at all trying to understand what is going on around us involving "muslims" and what they believe, this girls account should definitely be included....even if it only becomes a basis for challenging what she states to be true, factual or experience.

It is almost 9 minutes long which can be a challenge for some. But if you want an eye opener then just sit and watch. The you decide what to do next about it.

Is she just telling us what we want to hear? I personally do not know. However, I am now committed to learn more using her presentation as a basis.

One thing is for certain, as presented she is very convincing because it does fit that which we are witnessing around the world as we live.

Watch it and decide for yourself.

What do you think about her presentation? Her intent?

I could open the link from Kitty, in fact, I posted the same link earlier. WATCH: Woman Who Was Raised Muslim Just Dropped Truth Bomb About Islam EVERY Lib MUST See

[villagerjack]

3
Billion Friendly Muslims and only 300,000 ISIS and the friendlies are losing? Think about that! How can that happen ? It sounds implausible. Are they all cowards?

[Jimturner]

Our prisons all filled with more Christians than any other faith. Love good people and hate bad people, but don't hate the good ones due to their religious preference.

[villagerjack]

Our prisons all filled with more Christians than any other faith. Love good people and hate bad people, but don't hate the good ones due to their religious preference.

Muslims blow themselves up killing others so they do not go to prison.

[Jimturner]

Muslims blow themselves up killing others so they do not go to prison.

Best factual point in this entire thread. Thanks VJ. If we all thought as deep as you, the truth would rise to the surface. Unfortunately, Americans tend to hang out with people that think like they do, hence, they miss the truth one can find in diversity. We're getting better, but we humans are very primitive in 2015.

[RickeyD]

A very large percent of Muslims in Muslim nations marry their first cousins. This interbreeding causes physical as well as mental abnormalities. Couple this with insane Islamic teachings and there spells a recipe for abnormal thought and actions.

[Taltarzac725]

A very large percent of Muslims in Muslim nations marry their first cousins. This interbreeding causes physical as well as mental abnormalities. Couple this with insane Islamic teachings and there spells a recipe for abnormal thought and actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage Just looking up sources.

[Lark7]

Extremists come in all colors and religions.

[Jimturner]

The good people in Cincinnati Ohio get it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vx-f5tFVzok

[kittygilchrist]

Our prisons all filled with more Christians than any other faith. Love good people and hate bad people, but don't hate the good ones due to their religious preference.

I would like to see the data to substantiate the religious preference of inmates.

[Taltarzac725]

The good people in Cincinnati Ohio get it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vx-f5tFVzok

I like that.

Your own life experiences play a big role. I hung around with a group of international students while living in Middlebrook Hall on the U of MN Campus while in my 2nd and 3rd Years of Law School. These were mainly native Spanish speakers. Two of these were two women from Bilbao, Spain who were getting training to teach English back in Spain while also getting their Advanced Degrees and Teaching Spanish at the University of Minnesota.

I got talking with them about their lives in Bilbao and up came their experiences with Basque separatists and bombings in that area and in Spain. I grew up around some Basques who live in Northern Nevada. They had/have some really good family restaurants in Reno, Nevada. Louis Basque Corner | Home of the World Famous Picon Punch (http://louisbasquecorner.com/)

These two ladies did not really want to talk about Basques in Nevada because they always would think of the Basque separatists who bombed places near and in Bilbao. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ETA_attacks https://thebluereview.org/rise-fall-eta/

[graciegirl]

The Director of the FBI told House Armed Services Committee yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.

[Taltarzac725]

https://www.facebook.com/umncla/posts/1009213145783462

This is of interest.

[Taltarzac725]

The Director of the FBI told joint session of Congress yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.

The terrorist watchers are going to have to get more creative and enlist the help of these companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

I have heard of a form of communication the messages of which disappear after a minute or so. Great if you are a teen trying to sneak out but very troubling for terrorist monitors.

There is a balance between privacy and safety.

[jebartle]

I wonder IF the FBI admitted to "breaking code" that would make
receiving information less attainable because they would find other ways to communicate.



The Director of the FBI told joint session of Congress yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.

[graciegirl]

The Director of the FBI told joint session of Congress yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.




Bump.


Tal what is your reaction to this post? And I was wrong. It was not the joint session of congress, it was the military defense committee.

[kittygilchrist]

Our prisons all filled with more Christians than any other faith. Love good people and hate bad people, but don't hate the good ones due to their religious preference.


I found this Pew research...fascinating...regarding prison Chaplain's perceptions of extremism among inmates. Note that Muslim chaplains perceive the least percentage of extremism, yet a common perception among chaplains in general is that extremism is especially common in muslim inmates. Quoting...

Religion in Prisons (http://www.pewforum.org/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/)

At the same time, a sizable minority of chaplains say that religious extremism is either very common (12%) or somewhat common (29%) among inmates. Religious extremism is reported by the chaplains as especially common among Muslim inmates (including followers of the Nation of Islam and the Moorish Science Temple of America) and, to a substantial but lesser degree, among followers of pagan or earth-based religions such as Odinism and various forms of Wicca. (See Glossary.) An overwhelming majority of chaplains, however, report that religious extremism seldom poses a threat to the security of the facility in which they work, with only 4% of chaplains saying religious extremism among inmates “almost always” poses a threat to prison security and an additional 19% saying it “sometimes” poses a threat.

[outlaw]

Extremists come in all colors and religions.

True. But right now, Islam is the religion causing 98% of the terrorism issues.

[Taltarzac725]

I would like to see the data to substantiate the religious preference of inmates.

Religion in Prisons (http://www.pewforum.org/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/)

You may find this of interest, kitty.

Statistics would probably vary a lot by area. I was a Student Director for Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners for the Minnesota Correctional Facility- Stillwater. That's the largest medium security prison in MN. There were not that many Muslims that I remember back in 1987-1989 but there probably are quite a number there now due to the very large influx of immigrants from Central Africa to the Twin Cities. Many of these are from Somalia. ISIS is getting the largest number if US recruits from that community I believe. Fears grow that more MN Somali youth have gone to ISIS | Minnesota Public Radio News (http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/08/21/somali-youth-minnesota)

[kittygilchrist]

Religion in Prisons (http://www.pewforum.org/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/)

You may find this of interest, kitty.

Statistics would probably vary a lot by area. I was a Student Director for Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners for the Minnesota Correctional Facility- Stillwater. That's the largest medium security prison in MN. There were not that many Muslims that I remember back in 1987-1989 but there probably are quite a number there now due to the very large influx of immigrants from Central Africa to the Twin Cities. Many of these are from Somalia. ISIS is getting the largest number if US recruits from that community I believe. Fears grow that more MN Somali youth have gone to ISIS | Minnesota Public Radio News (http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/08/21/somali-youth-minnesota)

This so delightful, Tal! We were posting about the same site at the same time!

[graciegirl]

The terrorist watchers are going to have to get more creative and enlist the help of these companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

I have heard of a form of communication the messages of which disappear after a minute or so. Great if you are a teen trying to sneak out but very troubling for terrorist monitors.

There is a balance between privacy and safety.


What news network do you watch Tal? I watch all three of the big ones, but switch back and forth about equally between CNN and Fox, probably watching CNN a little more. About how much time do you watch the news on Television? I watch at least an hour a day.


It seems that both the liberal and the conservative leaning news people think that there is a real problem in this country with Extreme Islam.

[Taltarzac725]

What news network do you watch Tal? I watch all three of the big ones, but switch back and forth about equally between CNN and Fox, probably watching CNN a little more.


It seems that both the liberal and the conservative leaning news people think that there is a real problem in this country with Extreme Islam.

Fox is often on in the background in this house. I usually watch CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley but can get a lot of other news sources via Facebook.

[Justus]

The Director of the FBI told House Armed Services Committee yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.

Saw this, as well...isn't that just ducky!

[Taltarzac725]

70,000 Indian Muslim clerics issue fatwa against Isis, the Taliban, al-Qaeda and other terror groups | Asia | News | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html)

This is promising.

[graciegirl]

Tal. Watch all of the major news channels, alternately for six hours. You will see why there is fear.

[tomwed]

bump

[Cedwards38]

True. But right now, Islam is the religion causing 98% of the terrorism issues.

I'm not sure how to define terrorism issue, but when one looks at the number of deaths due to terrorist shootings in America since 9/11 the numbers are almost equal between people killed by Jihadists and those killed by rightists, including Christians.

Homegrown Extremism: Deadly Attacks Since 9/11 | The International Security Program (http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html)

[billethkid]

The Director of the FBI told House Armed Services Committee yesterday that with the new communications on the internet they cannot follow "chatter" the way they used to.


Extreme Islamic people can now communicate without any kind of internet supervision.


And so no one can tell anyone if there is a "credible threat" of an Isis, Al Quaeda , Boko Haram or home grown terrorist attack like they could last year. People who may be suspect cannot be monitored any longer except by following them around.

What is not making enough showing in the news is that the manufacturer of these devices can in fact break the code as long as the devices are of the same make..i.e. Apple to Apple products. The issue that surfaces is the manufacturers hiding behind the all encompassing "invasion of privacy" and the outlook of the government on that subject is apparent in that they will not do anything that might upset somebody.

So what has to happen before we go back to the old days when the priority was protection of country and it's people? At some point there will just have to be a decision made to do what ever it takes to break the code.

[tomwed]

What is not making enough showing in the news is that the manufacturer of these devices can in fact break the code as long as the devices are of the same make..i.e. Apple to Apple products. The issue that surfaces is the manufacturers hiding behind the all encompassing "invasion of privacy" and the outlook of the government on that subject is apparent in that they will not do anything that might upset somebody.

So what has to happen before we go back to the old days when the priority was protection of country and it's people? At some point there will just have to be a decision made to do what ever it takes to break the code.
It's not that easy.
ISIS Has an App. Could They Build Encryption Tools, Too?
by KEITH WAGSTAFF
ISIS Has an App. Could They Build Encryption Tools, Too? - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-has-app-could-they-build-encryption-tools-too-n471596)

We can pass laws in the US but anyone who wants to send secret messages can use software developed outside of the US that cannot be decrypted.

[Taltarzac725]

That's a very good book. I had a friend at the University of Denver Graduate School of Librarianship and Information Management who was getting an advanced degree-- a MA in Librarianship like me. He was from the University of Mosul and had a brother in the Republican Guard or something like that. This was in 1983-1984. After he graduated (?) he went back to Iraq. His letters to me became more and more radicalized so by 1986 we broke any correspondence off. His family relationships especially with the brother in the military made him into a true believer for Saddam Hussein.

ISIS has had control of Mosul for a year or more and they looted that library. ISIS Destroys Iraq's University of Mosul (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/10/23/isis-destroys-iraqs-university-mosul/) I have no idea what happened to that ex-friend I had. It is not a wise idea to have any contact with people who live in ISIS controlled areas.


My Iraqi ex-friend was very traditional and I was never allowed to be even in the same room as his wife. The other Muslim/Arabs from various different Middle Eastern countries who were studying various subjects at the University of Denver were all quite different from one another.

I did get an introduction to the Muslim religion from this group of Arabs. It is hard to overgeneralize about them though. Their families, ambitions, etc. had a big impact on making them quite different from one another.

The Kurd jokes really bothered me when I was around them.

And my ex-Iraqi friend's dislike of dogs-- which he thought were way too dirty-- also bugged me a great deal.

That's my friend from the University of Denver standing behind me in one of these University of Denver Library student parties. Have no idea if he is even alive somewhere in Iraq now in 2015. I am the guy with the mustache, no beard. This is around 1983-1984 in Denver. One of the pictures is my graduating class of May 1984. I am there with 5 women. http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k210/taltarzac725/UniversityofDenverGSLIM1983-1984001_zps1e9173d7.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/taltarzac725/media/UniversityofDenverGSLIM1983-1984001_zps1e9173d7.jpg.html)

[ajbrown]

What is not making enough showing in the news is that the manufacturer of these devices can in fact break the code as long as the devices are of the same make..i.e. Apple to Apple products. The issue that surfaces is the manufacturers hiding behind the all encompassing "invasion of privacy" and the outlook of the government on that subject is apparent in that they will not do anything that might upset somebody.

So what has to happen before we go back to the old days when the priority was protection of country and it's people? At some point there will just have to be a decision made to do what ever it takes to break the code.

I might be missing what you are saying, so forgive me if I am. These encryption protocols are not owned by a vendor. If i encrypt a message to someone using an decent encryption cipher(and public/private key pair), it 'cannot' be decrypted without you having the private key. (I quote cannot meaning it not practical). This is not a vendor thing at all, you can download any decent encryption software onto any box.

[outlaw]

I'm not sure how to define terrorism issue, but when one looks at the number of deaths due to terrorist shootings in America since 9/11 the numbers are almost equal between people killed by Jihadists and those killed by rightists, including Christians.

Homegrown Extremism: Deadly Attacks Since 9/11 | The International Security Program (http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/deadly-attacks.html)

Interesting you can't say "Islamists", but you have no trouble saying "Christians". I think most of the non-muslim mass shooters leaned left.

[Taltarzac725]

Interesting you can't say "Islamists", but you have no trouble saying "Christians". I think most of the non-muslim mass shooters leaned left.

The idea that recent mass shooters are mostly registered Democrats is a myth | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/the-idea-that-recent-mass-shooters-are-mostly-registered-democrats-is-a-myth)

There seems to be little evidence for political party of mass shooters and most of the time something else is motivating these killers than what party they belong.

[graciegirl]

I might be missing what you are saying, so forgive me if I am. These encryption protocols are not owned by a vendor. If i encrypt a message to someone using an decent encryption cipher(and public/private key pair), it 'cannot' be decrypted without you having the private key. (I quote cannot meaning it not practical). This is not a vendor thing at all, you can download any decent encryption software onto any box.



That is it. It is read by the receiver after the receiver unencrypts it, and then is permanently gone, so "chatter" that used to give us warnings of "credible threats" is no longer available to monitor.


I don't worry that a terrorist attack will happen here in The Villages. I don't worry about myself or much about folks who are over fifty. I worry about the hatred directed at people who don't espouse this religion by radical people. Fox news said that 79% of American citizens expected to see a terrorist attack on American soil in the next few months. And CNN said that terrorism is the number one thing on peoples minds, not the economy, not jobs, not police brutality, not guns.


The people who change the subject are behind the times. I don't want people to be afraid and I don't want to be afraid. Being afraid is not a conscious decision, it is an emotion and is not an act of will. It follows absorbing facts and is there as a mechanism to preserve life unless a person is paranoid and/or absorbing untrue facts. Really knowing what is happening is almost addictive and leads to over watching the news, sadly.

What I dislike intensely are the anchors who do not interview, but argue their beliefs, and those who put their spin on reporting. Every single one of them does it. All stations. Real journalism is not used much anymore. The simple reporting of facts that have been validated by a credible (to all) source. One that waits and doesn't jump the gun and facts that do not play on emotions. About the only person I feel confident in at this time is the director of the FBI....and then my mind goes back to J. Edgar Hoover.

[memason]

Seems to me, that if the objective of terrorist's is to disrupt our way of life, they have already succeeded. If we are living in fear of attack or afraid to go out, then they have accomplished their mission.

Terrorist activity is dominating the news cycle, which is what they want. One of our politicians is using that fear to also dominate the news cycle.

I'm sure there are lots of folks that will not agree with me, but I refuse to live my life in fear of some foreign [or domestic] terrorist. That just lets them win!

[kittygilchrist]

Seems to me, that if the objective of terrorist's is to disrupt our way of life, they have already succeeded. If we are living in fear of attack or afraid to go out, then they have accomplished their mission.

Terrorist activity is dominating the news cycle, which is what they want. One of our politicians is using that fear to also dominate the news cycle.

I'm sure there are lots of folks that will not agree with me, but I refuse to live my life in fear of some foreign [or domestic] terrorist. That just lets them win!

As I said earlier, those we call terrorist probably pride themselves on being the best Muslims, willing to carry out instructions of the Quran to kill anyone who is not a good Muslim. Use of the term terrorist falsely keeps us feeling safer than we are and inhibits appropriate deterrant measures.

If we are only afraid, their objective to destroy has fallen short.

[memason]

As I said earlier, those we call terrorist probably pride themselves on being the best Muslims, willing to carry out instructions of the Quran to kill anyone who is not a good Muslim. Use of the term terrorist falsely keeps us feeling safer than we are and inhibits appropriate deterrant measures.

If we are only afraid, their objective to destroy has fallen short.

Not every terrorist is Muslim...

Religious extremism is the real culprit; regardless of the religion.

[graciegirl]

Seems to me, that if the objective of terrorist's is to disrupt our way of life, they have already succeeded. If we are living in fear of attack or afraid to go out, then they have accomplished their mission.

Terrorist activity is dominating the news cycle, which is what they want. One of our politicians is using that fear to also dominate the news cycle.

I'm sure there are lots of folks that will not agree with me, but I refuse to live my life in fear of some foreign [or domestic] terrorist. That just lets them win!



I think so much of your opinions always, but have to ask; how do you feel when you read about the San Bernardino shootings?


I can say; Self, I am not going to feel fear about this. I will think of my flowers. But my self is not buyin' it.

[Taltarzac725]

Seems to me, that if the objective of terrorist's is to disrupt our way of life, they have already succeeded. If we are living in fear of attack or afraid to go out, then they have accomplished their mission.

Terrorist activity is dominating the news cycle, which is what they want. One of our politicians is using that fear to also dominate the news cycle.

I'm sure there are lots of folks that will not agree with me, but I refuse to live my life in fear of some foreign [or domestic] terrorist. That just lets them win!

My 224 613 Project has been about taking control of your life over fear. It has been trying to get practical information for survivors/victims of crimes into libraries of all kinds or accessible through libraries. I have been near a mud slide in Davis Creek in Washoe Valley during the Memorial Day weekend of 1983; had an uncle who cleaned up after the worst US air line disaster near O'Hare as he was the Itasca Fire Chief American Airlines Flight 191 still haunts - Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-american-airlines-ohare-crash-flight-191-hospital-perspec-0525-jm-20150522-story.html) ; my BD is the date when my then remedial English teacher's daughter Michelle Mitchell was murdered near Reno, Nevada on 2-24-1976; had a friend Tom Snow from the University of Nevada, Reno Philosophy Department who was stabbed about six times in the chest area for trying to pick up a married woman near Mustang Ranch no less; had a stalker Gale P., for almost a whole academic year 1989-1990 while I worked a reference desk at the U of MN Law Library; my father was a catastrophe manager for a major insurance company and handled things like the Harvey's Wagon Wheel bombing, Hurricane Andrew, various CA wild fires and earthquakes; and I could go on like with the friend from the University of Denver Graduate School of Librarianship and Information Management who was/is (?) from the University of Mosul, Iraq; etc.

Anyway with a history like this I should just stay in bed and let the world pass by. I do not as I have been fighting to get practical materials into libraries of all kinds since January 1991 for survivors/victims of crimes. Mainly because I feel that with all these experiences I can walk in their shoes. And it allows me to handle bullies a little better even though once in a while it has been wiser to just leave town because of them and hope that their followers wake up to what they are really like.

I am a little worried about being swallowed by a sinkhole here in Florida as that is something that has not happened yet.

I had a neighbor Ron Bath in Reno, Nevada who probably flew some of the flights that bombed targets in Iraq in 1991. He was lawyer/pilot/law professor and sometime Pentagon Air Force General. I will bet for all his macho swagger he sometimes exhibited he was scared as well.

We should not let fear control us in any way but take control of it. I also have a fear of public speaking but would just make some joke when called on at the U of MN Law School or look otherwise pre-occupied. I was not much of a favorite of the Law Professors at the U of MN Law School as I refused to play the Socratic Method game they played. An "I don't know" also worked a lot but would sure **** off the professors. I was actually introduced as a Professor by the Law School Dean in the Fall of 1989 to the then entering Law School Class of 1992. You should have seen some of the Faculty's faces. Priceless. I was the WESTLAW cataloger so they allowed me to stay on at the University of Minnesota Law Library after I graduated in 1989 from their Law School.

I am still hard at work on the 224 613 Project and its seems to have become really big unless I am not reading the signs correctly.

[memason]

I think so much of your opinions always, but have to ask; how do you feel when you read about the San Bernardino shootings?


I can say; Self, I am not going to feel fear about this. I will think of my flowers. But my self is not buyin' it.

The shootings in San Bernardino were horrific and my heart goes out to those folks. But even so, I refuse to live in fear of that happening to wherever I happen to be. I feel everyone has to stay aware of their surroundings, but that does not equate to fear, to me. Fear leads to bad things happening and causes us to paint with very broad brushes. Fear could also cause us to seek comfort [or security] in the wrong places or with the wrong people. In a country this size and the freedoms we enjoy, we will always have isolated incidents of violence.

[Bogie Shooter]

Seems to me, that if the objective of terrorist's is to disrupt our way of life, they have already succeeded. If we are living in fear of attack or afraid to go out, then they have accomplished their mission.

Terrorist activity is dominating the news cycle, which is what they want. One of our politicians is using that fear to also dominate the news cycle.

I'm sure there are lots of folks that will not agree with me, but I refuse to live my life in fear of some foreign [or domestic] terrorist. That just lets them win!

The shootings in San Bernardino were horrific and my heart goes out to those folks. But even so, I refuse to live in fear of that happening to wherever I happen to be. I feel everyone has to stay aware of their surroundings, but that does not equate to fear, to me. Fear leads to bad things happening and causes us to paint with very broad brushes. Fear could also cause us to seek comfort [or security] in the wrong places or with the wrong people. In a country this size and the freedoms we enjoy, we will always have isolated incidents of violence.

Well said.

[graciegirl]

\ The FBI director is my new hero.

[kittygilchrist]

Not every terrorist is Muslim...

Religious extremism is the real culprit; regardless of the religion.

Not sure we are hearing each other. What other religion besides Islam is engaging in advancing global efforts to kill everyone who does not adhere to the same faith?
I am not using the term terrorist, i.e., to make a few people afraid. I am speaking about killing in an organized effort to eradicate all possible unbelievers.

[Justus]

Not sure we are hearing each other. What other religion besides Islam is engaging in advancing global efforts to kill everyone who does not adhere to the same faith?
I am not using the term terrorist, i.e., to make a few people afraid. I am speaking about killing in an organized effort to eradicate all possible unbelievers.

I agree with you completely. It may be unpopular to speak the truth because some people cannot face the reality that we are targets in a worldwide hate campaign.

BTW, in case no one has noticed, the words "hate crime" haven't once been used to characterize the terrorist act of murdering 14 innocent people simply because they were "infidels". It took forever for authorities to even label it a terrorist act.

Yet the suspect who burned a mosque yesterday is already charged with a "hate crime", according to news reports. So it can only be a "hate crime" if committed against a protected class, of which muslims are the latest poster children. I suppose any other victims are just "collateral damage".

[Carl in Tampa]

Extremists come in all colors and religions.

Yep, but not all kill.

[Taltarzac725]

Not sure we are hearing each other. What other religion besides Islam is engaging in advancing global efforts to kill everyone who does not adhere to the same faith?
I am not using the term terrorist, i.e., to make a few people afraid. I am speaking about killing in an organized effort to eradicate all possible unbelievers.

This is an extremist group of murderous followers of a certain religion. There have been Christian sects that have done things quite similar. Jim Jones and the People's Temple. The psychological massacre: Jim Jones and Peoples Temple: An Investigation (http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=29478) Peoples Temple | religious group | Britannica.com (http://www.britannica.com/topic/Peoples-Temple)

You could even call ISIS a cult-- ISIS Is a Cult That Uses Terrorism: A Fresh New Strategy | Steven Hassan (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-hassan/isis-is-a-cult-that-uses-_b_6023890.html)

[kittygilchrist]

Yep, but not all kill.

Made my day!

[goodtimesintv]

The shootings in San Bernardino were horrific and my heart goes out to those folks. But even so, I refuse to live in fear of that happening to wherever I happen to be. I feel everyone has to stay aware of their surroundings, but that does not equate to fear, to me. Fear leads to bad things happening and causes us to paint with very broad brushes. Fear could also cause us to seek comfort [or security] in the wrong places or with the wrong people. In a country this size and the freedoms we enjoy, we will always have isolated incidents of violence.

I beg to differ, adamantly.

Regarding "But even so, I refuse to live in fear of that happening to wherever I happen to be."

For one thing, we are not "living in fear" of "that [San Bernardino-style massacre] happening".

National defense is not established, sustained and additionally fortified in these times because we "live in fear". It is to be ready for enemy attack and to nip it in the bud before it seizes and takes control of territory and society in our own territories.

Claiming we are "living in fear" like crazed cripples and lunatic fringe, and thus sticking our nation's head in the sand, is mockery, not civil discourse.

Secondly, it's not just an "isolated incidence" "of violence". The massacres of unarmed civilians in Paris and San Bernardino are well-planned pieces of a greater, global plan to terrorize and then seize sovereign national territory and populace for their CALIPHATE.

This article in The Atlantic, hardly a rightist lunatic-fringe publication, has it right, and this is at the core of ISIS's growing plan:

"Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime. His organization was flexible, operating as a geographically diffuse network of autonomous cells. The Islamic State, by contrast, requires territory to remain legitimate, and a top-down structure to rule it. (Its bureaucracy is divided into civil and military arms, and its territory into provinces.)"


What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)

:(

[Steve9930]

I agree with you completely. It may be unpopular to speak the truth because some people cannot face the reality that we are targets in a worldwide hate campaign.

BTW, in case no one has noticed, the words "hate crime" haven't once been used to characterize the terrorist act of murdering 14 innocent people simply because they were "infidels". It took forever for authorities to even label it a terrorist act.

Yet the suspect who burned a mosque yesterday is already charged with a "hate crime", according to news reports. So it can only be a "hate crime" if committed against a protected class, of which muslims are the latest poster children. I suppose any other victims are just "collateral damage".

Currently I believe Trump is correct. However I would have phrased it differently. I would halt all VISAs from any of the Middle Eastern Countries who are Governed by Sharia Law and have Islamic Terrorist with in their borders. Until there is a better way to vet these people no VISAs should be granted. There is no Violation of the Constitution to deny access to the US by Non-citizens. I would also start to track down and deport anyone who has over stayed their VISA.

[MDLNB]

Currently I believe Trump is correct. However I would have phrased it differently. I would halt all VISAs from any of the Middle Eastern Countries who are Governed by Sharia Law and have Islamic Terrorist with in their borders. Until there is a better way to vet these people no VISAs should be granted. There is no Violation of the Constitution to deny access to the US by Non-citizens. I would also start to track down and deport anyone who has over stayed their VISA.

I agree. They have declared war on us, and it should be treated as such. Not as an illness. Some times there is collateral damage to innocents when defending in wartime. Better the other side than ours. Sounds harsh, but sometimes we need to rely on hard folks to make decisions for us in extreme situations. Kind of like hiring a gunslinger to clean up a town. Of course, once that is accomplished, the gunslinger is an embarrassment and is usually ushered out of town also. What I am getting at is, try not to condemn those that call for hard or extreme measures to protect our families. These folks have to live with their hard decisions, but our families get to LIVE.

Muslim extremists do not respect weakness, and anyone that wishes to "talk or negotiate" with them is considered weak. They only respect strength and power. It does not make us like them if we have to get hard to fight them. It makes us protectors of our Freedom.

"... if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiances here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag,... we have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Teddy Roosevelt -- 1907

[earlehancock]

I don't have any more information than you do, BUT I believe it's politically incorrect NOT to talk about it.

[Steve9930]

I was passed a link this morning from a friend that indicates the US Government is already moving Refugees into the US. They are transporting these people VIA UPS Charter Planes that have been converted to carry passengers. The planes are coming into Harrisburg, PA Airport in late night flights. Now as most of these stories go I always take them with some degree of skepticism. However they also provided a link o an interview on Bill O'Reily with Governor Christie. In that interview Governor Christie indicated the US Government is moving refugees into the country without informing state officials. They bring them in and then assign them to non-government entities such as Catholic Charities to resettle them. Christie indicated there were 75 that were moved into New Jersey and they have no idea where they are in the state. He indicated that the transfer from the US Government to these non-profit private organizations does not under law give the state of New Jersey any power to make these organizations give any location information as to where the refugees were resettled. The article went on to caution that the debate about the 10,000 is a cover while they move thousands into the country. Had I not seen the interview with Governor Christie I would have just shrugged it off but there maybe some validity to all this nonsense. I was skeptical about Government in the past but this administration has shown such a disregard for what the people want that it would not surprise me if the article was spot on.

[billethkid]

I don't have any more information than you do, BUT I believe it's politically incorrect NOT to talk about it.

I would suggest addressing an issue as right or wrong instead of the always confusing political correctness haze?

[Bogie Shooter]

I was passed a link this morning from a friend that indicates the US Government is already moving Refugees into the US. They are transporting these people VIA UPS Charter Planes that have been converted to carry passengers. The planes are coming into Harrisburg, PA Airport in late night flights. Now as most of these stories go I always take them with some degree of skepticism. However they also provided a link o an interview on Bill O'Reily with Governor Christie. In that interview Governor Christie indicated the US Government is moving refugees into the country without informing state officials. They bring them in and then assign them to non-government entities such as Catholic Charities to resettle them. Christie indicated there were 75 that were moved into New Jersey and they have no idea where they are in the state. He indicated that the transfer from the US Government to these non-profit private organizations does not under law give the state of New Jersey any power to make these organizations give any location information as to where the refugees were resettled. The article went on to caution that the debate about the 10,000 is a cover while they move thousands into the country. Had I not seen the interview with Governor Christie I would have just shrugged it off but there maybe some validity to all this nonsense. I was skeptical about Government in the past but this administration has shown such a disregard for what the people want that it would not surprise me if the article was spot on.

From "Truth of Fiction" web site.

Started as a email video in November 2015.




The video had more than 131,000 views 10 days after it was posted on November 9, 2015. After the terrorist attacks on Paris and public debate on admitting Syrian refugees into the U.S. that followed, the video quickly went viral. Other versions also popped up on YouTube claiming that busloads of refugees had been brought into Pennsylvania on a UPS cargo flight.

A UPS spokesperson told TruthorFiction.com that the rumor is “erroneous.”

“UPS is a cargo airline and has not been involved in passenger flights of any kind into or out of Harrisburg. Suggestions to the contrary are based on misinformation,” Susan Rosenberg, UPS public relations director, told us.

The video doesn’t provide any hard evidence or proof to contradict UPS’s claim, either. After all, it only shows is the back of a charter bus driving on a highway at night. The narrator claims that buses were parked beside a UPS cargo flight, but there’s no video (or proof) that that actually happened. The narrator also says there were “about 30” charter buses driving down the road, but only one or two buses are visible in the video. Also, the numbers don’t seem to check out: there couldn’t be enough people on one cargo flight to fill up 30 charter buses.

Also, the way that UPS uses Harrisburg International Airport in the normal course of business doesn’t jive with the video’s claims. We confirmed that UPS does in fact use Harrisburg International Airport on a regular basis — but we quickly learned that international flights rarely (if ever) fly directly into Harrisburg International Airport from outside the country.

UPS moves about 22,800 tons of cargo through the airport each year. Because there are many warehouses and manufacturers in the region, the vast majority of cargo is outbound rather than inbound. Most often, UPS flies cargo into Harrisburg from airports in Williamsport and Scranton. Then, it’s combined with cargo brought in on trucks, and UPS flights depart from Harrisburg to Worldport, the company’s main air hub, in Louisville, according to Harrisburg International Airport.

So, in the normal course of business, international UPS flights don’t fly directly into Harrisburg International Airport from outside the country. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, or hasn’t happened.

We’re classifying claims that UPS brought refugees into the country on a cargo plane as fiction. First, the company has directly denied that claim. Second, the viral video shows no proof, other than the back of a nondescript charter bus. Third, it appears that the vast majority of UPS flights fly into Harrisburg from other parts of Pennsylvania (not outside the country), and then depart for Louisville.

Another opinion.
Undercover Parcel Service : snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/undercover-parcel-service/)

[Steve9930]

[QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;1158666]From "Truth of Fiction" web site.

Started as a email video in November 2015.




The video had more than 131,000 views 10 days after it was posted on November 9, 2015. After the terrorist attacks on Paris and public debate on admitting Syrian refugees into the U.S. that followed, the video quickly went viral. Other versions also popped up on YouTube claiming that busloads of refugees had been brought into Pennsylvania on a UPS cargo flight.

A UPS spokesperson told TruthorFiction.com that the rumor is “erroneous.”

“UPS is a cargo airline and has not been involved in passenger flights of any kind into or out of Harrisburg. Suggestions to the contrary are based on misinformation,” Susan Rosenberg, UPS public relations director, told us.

The video doesn’t provide any hard evidence or proof to contradict UPS’s claim, either. After all, it only shows is the back of a charter bus driving on a highway at night. The narrator claims that buses were parked beside a UPS cargo flight, but there’s no video (or proof) that that actually happened. The narrator also says there were “about 30” charter buses driving down the road, but only one or two buses are visible in the video. Also, the numbers don’t seem to check out: there couldn’t be enough people on one cargo flight to fill up 30 charter buses.

Also, the way that UPS uses Harrisburg International Airport in the normal course of business doesn’t jive with the video’s claims. We confirmed that UPS does in fact use Harrisburg International Airport on a regular basis — but we quickly learned that international flights rarely (if ever) fly directly into Harrisburg International Airport from outside the country.

UPS moves about 22,800 tons of cargo through the airport each year. Because there are many warehouses and manufacturers in the region, the vast majority of cargo is outbound rather than inbound. Most often, UPS flies cargo into Harrisburg from airports in Williamsport and Scranton. Then, it’s combined with cargo brought in on trucks, and UPS flights depart from Harrisburg to Worldport, the company’s main air hub, in Louisville, according to Harrisburg International Airport.

So, in the normal course of business, international UPS flights don’t fly directly into Harrisburg International Airport from outside the country. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, or hasn’t happened.

We’re classifying claims that UPS brought refugees into the country on a cargo plane as fiction. First, the company has directly denied that claim. Second, the viral video shows no proof, other than the back of a nondescript charter bus. Third, it appears that the vast majority of UPS flights fly into Harrisburg from other parts of Pennsylvania (not outside the country), and then depart for Louisville.

Another opinion.
Undercover Parcel Service : snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/undercover-parcel-service/)[Gove

Thanks for the info. I'll have to see where the Clip of Governor Christy fits. Christie is shown with Bill O'Riely. Christies statement was that New Jersey had approximately 70 Refugees placed into New Jerey without any communications with the State. He indicated that this has become normal practice for the government to do this with resettled Refugees. They are placed with groups like Catholic Charities to handle the resettlement. One of his complaints was New Jersey had no authority to force the information of just who and where these people were placed. Need to dig deeper.

[Chi-Town]

Thanks for the lowdown Bogie Shooter.

[graciegirl]

Thanks for the lowdown Bogie Shooter.



Why does it matter how?


It matters to me that they are coming from Syria that has no way of providing anything much about their background except that they are Muslim or Christian.


And that a majority of Americans don't think that is a good idea AT THIS TIME.

[Steve9930]

I looked at the link provided by Bogie Shooter. Its not the one that was passed to me. I'll provide it here and those that see it can make their own decision. I'm a bit skeptical on the UPS part but the interview between Christie and O'Reily is disturbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIf3tElDLfA&feature=youtu.be

[Bogie Shooter]

Why does it matter how?


It matters to me that they are coming from Syria that has no way of providing anything much about their background except that they are Muslim or Christian.


And that a majority of Americans don't think that is a good idea AT THIS TIME.

Why? Because its not true.
Because people make up these lies and then post on the Internet. And many gullible people believe if its printed and quoted on the Internet....it has to be true.

[graciegirl]

Why? Because its not true.
Because people make up these lies and then post on the Internet. And many gullible people believe if its printed and quoted on the Internet....it has to be true.



Are you saying that we are not getting and have not received refugees from Syria?

That was my concern. Not how they got here. I am glad for anyone to dispel rumors. That is always a good thing.

[Bogie Shooter]

Are you saying that we are not getting and have not received refugees from Syria?

That was my concern. Not how they got here. I am glad for anyone to dispel rumors. That is always a good thing.

The facts say they were not shipped here via UPS.

[graciegirl]

The latest...thing...is being broadcast on all three major networks live at this time and that is that the LA. Schools are shut down due to a threat "against safety" of the kids. It is the second largest school system in the U.S. and judging from the press conference there is something more than a kid calling in. Watch it yourself.

[Bogie Shooter]

The latest...thing...is being broadcast on all three major networks live at this time and that is that the LA. Schools are shut down due to a threat "against safety" of the kids. It is the second largest school system in the U.S. and judging from the press conference there is something more than a kid calling in. Watch it yourself.

What is the message that you are saying?
Why do I need to "watch it for my self?
Come on Gracie.....................

[goodtimesintv]

Why? Because its not true.
Because people make up these lies and then post on the Internet. And many gullible people believe if its printed and quoted on the Internet....it has to be true.

So......Millions of "gullible" people across the hemisphere are watching on t.v. and reading/watching on internet that in Los Angeles County 900 public schools and 187 public charter schools are closed due to credible terror threats against student safety.

I wonder how much it costs the school district, city, public safety forces and people who work and pay taxes, to send in massively protected bomb squads into every one of 1,187 school campuses to scour every single inch of every one of these facilities, in all their HVAC, water, sewer, smoke/fire detection systems, and the district-wide IT systems.

I wonder what the response time is for the normal number of police, fire, and ambulance calls today, while all public safety forces are occupied with all this "living in fear" that we "gullible" people are informing ourselves about.

[graciegirl]

What is the message that you are saying?
Why do I need to "watch it for my self?
Come on Gracie.....................



It was not directed at you specifically Bogie. I posted that information because I think it relates to the issues we are discussing, and if nothing else how afraid most of us are from what we believe to be a "credible threat" to all of us from hidden among us enemies.

[Bogie Shooter]

So......Millions of "gullible" people across the hemisphere are watching on t.v. and reading/watching on internet that in Los Angeles County 900 public schools and 187 public charter schools are closed due to credible terror threats against student safety.

I wonder how much it costs the school district, city, public safety forces and people who work and pay taxes, to send in massively protected bomb squads into every one of 1,187 school campuses to scour every single inch of every one of these facilities, in all their HVAC, water, sewer, smoke/fire detection systems, and the district-wide IT systems.

I wonder what the response time is for the normal number of police, fire, and ambulance calls today, while all public safety forces are occupied with all this "living in fear" that we "gullible" people are informing ourselves about.

I was referring to the Internet when I used gullible.
I'm out!

[graciegirl]

I was referring to the Internet when I used gullible.
I'm out!



There are many who feel that there isn't much to worry about when it comes to danger here in the U.S. from either home grown or other Islamic Terrorists.


And there are many who feel there is much to worry about. And there are some who think that the worriers are bigots.


That is how it is.


Bottom line. Not good at all. I would rather debate something else.

Recent news;
Los Angeles closes all schools after receiving threat (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/los-angeles-closes-schools-for-643000-students-after-threat/ar-BBnAjyh?ocid=ansmsnnews11)

[Steve9930]

I think we all need to take a deep breath. Is the UPS thing credible, probably not but I do not totally dismiss it. Remember the attack in Benghazi was do to an internet video, remember that story line! The latest video I posted does have some bias in the fact they want you to believe that Governor Christie is confirming the statement. I do not believe that is the case. However what Governor Christie states is true and very disturbing. Like I said before, if you want to come to the United States, and swear to uphold the Constitution and Bill of Rights as the documents that govern, then I welcome you to this country. If you believe your coming here as some sort of mass migration to spread a 7th Century ideology to replace our Governing Documents or believe you should have your own governance such as Sharia Law, then I suggest you stay in a country in the Middle East that uses that philosophy because you will not be welcomed here. Also not all Muslims adhere to the strict interpretation of the Quran. So we need to make sure these people are not subjected to vigilante style violence. When we change our values, based on these Islam Extremist, they win. However if you preach the use of Terrorism in a Mosque, or use it as firing point then as far as I'm concerned you loose any religious freedom rights in this country and are no different then an other enemy of the US. Its no longer a place of worship but a tactical target.

Bottom line when we upset the apple cart in the Middle East, we also took on the responsibility to fix it. When we pulled out, in direct opposition to all the Military Advise, there was a vacuum created, this let to the rise of ISIS. Because we did not take out Assad in Syria we now have the Russians back in the area big time. Which by the way are moving their largest class Nuclear Submarine into the Mediterranean Sea. Not Good.

Here at Home we need to be vigilant, take responsibility for our own safety and the safety of our fellow citizens, and remember we are in a war which the enemy is trying to put fighters on our homeland. Also remember that if there are 4 Million Muslims in this country, and they say only 1% support Jihad, then that's a pretty big number.

Maybe it might be better if we took all those young men trying to come here, armed them, put them on a boat, sent them back to their country, and told them to earn their freedom just as we did. I see a lot of young men's faces in the crowd that look able bodied enough to fight.

[Steve9930]

More stories like this will be helpful, now lets see if they walk the talk.
34 Islamic nations form coalition to fight terrorism - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/middleeast/islamic-coalition-isis-saudi-arabia/index.html)

[ProximaMan]

Why does the word "hysteria" come to mind? :1rotfl:

[goodtimesintv]

Why does the word "hysteria" come to mind? :1rotfl:

Could be:

-booze 24/7

-prescription pills

-street drugs

-schizophrenia

-head purposely buried in the sand or other hole

[dplars]

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.
We are fortunate to have in this community a person who knows the Quran and Bible from cover to cover. Dr Masood is a local retiree who gives presentations on how Christian should communicate to Muslins. But I keep thing of a quote attributed to Marco Polo that states, "A moderate muslin will hold your feet while the radicalized/devout muslin cuts your head off."

[graciegirl]

Why does the word "hysteria" come to mind? :1rotfl:



I just read all of your 16 posts. It didn't take long and it helps to understand you.


We are having a discussion and if you join please be prepared to answer questions.


What exactly and who exactly could be described as having "Hysteria"?


If you watch the National news and the World news for an hour a day, switching back and forth between the two major liberal networks; CNN and MSNBC and Fox News, the conservative network, they all seem to agree that there is a real problem with Radical Islam and terrorist attacks here on this soil and it has presented itself in the Boston Bombings, the shooting and killing at a Military Recruitment Center in Tennessee and the recent killings in San Bernardino. In case you have forgotten Nine Eleven.


There are those who seem to be in denial about this and those who place too much emphasis on it, but it is happening. It is true that at this time we would be more likely to die of other causes, but that doesn't cause those of us who are aware and concerned being called hysterical. I would more accurately call it a reasonable fear.


I think rather that your comment may mean that you are not informed about the situation of the war on Isis and other Radical Islam.

[tomwed]

Is everyone watching the Republican Debate? Violence against America by extremists is what they are discussing.

[Steve9930]

Is everyone watching the Republican Debate? Violence against America by extremists is what they are discussing.

Yes, and I've watched both Rep. and Dem. Its interesting that Pataki mentioned the 34 Country Arab Coalition that has decided to unite against ISIS. Trump just might be effecting things without even being elected.

[kittygilchrist]

Note that there is said to be a plan for this coalition, not yet a coalition. I ask the wind why Muslim nations cannot absorb Muslim refugees.
Of importance in understanding the Muslim world is the divide between shiites and sunnis re which lineage of caliph is acceptable. Iraq and Isis are shiite, and a vast majority, including S. Arabia, are sunni.

Saudi Arabia Forms Muslim Antiterror Coalition - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-forms-muslim-anti-terror-coalition-1450191561)

[goodtimesintv]

I ask the wind why Muslim nations cannot absorb Muslim refugees.



State of the Union Address spoken in one sentence.

Very sad for our nation and all who fought and died for it.

[choppers62]

Gracie,
Of course this is a valid conversation (actually I dislike how that word is now being used politically-wise...) topic.

1. I'm afraid some on the forum will hijack and deep-end it.
2. Speaking of deep-end...Trump statement. OMG, has a bit of validity as far as concerns regarding this group, but.
3. Religious conflicts have gone on for centuries - including Muslim vs XXXXreligions.
4. Current tools in use are not totally effective to ID some (esp Homegrown) radical Muslims - they are using encrypting comms that we cannot overcome yet. scary.
5. In my opinion a % are living amongst us - case in point SB. How many & where - even the FBI can't tell and they are overwhelmed following the Known ones on shore.
6. I'm not a gun-toter but if I lived in a mixed community outside the bubble - sure would.
7. I do have concern for public gatherings such as Squares/theatres etc - even here.
8. Am very concerned that some U.S. mosques are learning grounds for potential extremists - WHY DON"T THE MODERATE MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT???? And now we are finding out that Farook's father (and possibly entire family) are jew-haters.
9. I strongly dislike that so much of the Pres' speech time and the Att General's recent speech focused on violence towards Muslims etc - studies show that hate/violence against jews in the US is 60% of all, Muslims 15% - silence by Washington.
10. Of course we all don't want what happened to Japanese citizens in the US during WWII, but we absolutely cannot discount that ALL Muslim citizens are 100% patriotic - to OUR country. How large is the supposed Trojan Horse here - now and future?

I could go on, but pause for now.

What about the native American's our government rounded up and put on reservations. Those that didn't go were slaughtered by the US Government.
Rounding up a group of people is not new for our Government......

[kittygilchrist]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/us/politics/military-reviews-us-response-to-isis-rise.html

House to probe claims of intelligence manipulation | Washington Examiner (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-to-probe-claims-of-intelligence-manipulation/article/2578206)

These links are about manipulation of intelligence reports to obscure data on the danger of ISIS.

[Justus]

Kitty, Apropos your last post, this will ease your mind...or perhaps not...

https://www.facebook.com/RepDeSantis/videos/1001434629914597/

[kittygilchrist]

Kitty, Apropos your last post, this will ease your mind...or perhaps not...

https://www.facebook.com/RepDeSantis/videos/1001434629914597/

Everybody should see this one. I watched the whole unspeakable thing on fox.