Poorly Paid Mail Station Workers

[bunnyhop]

I just found out that the workers who distribute our mail at our Village Mail Stations are NOT well-paid USPS employees with benefits. The work they do is subcontracted out by the USPS. These hard-working employees are only paid minimum wage and have no benefits. Please keep this in mind when you're planning your Christmas list. Thank you.

[Bonnevie]

just sent them a generous check. they do a great job.

[fred53]

You say minimum wage...please verify that by providing your source. I mean no offense it's just difficult to take a complete strangers word on that. Thank you.

[justjim]

OP, Iam not surprised that they are poorly paid. I have not discussed their salary with any of our mail people---just wonder have you? Other than catching them at the mail boxes, how do you suggest we get a "tip" to them. We are currently away for the Holidays and would like to do something for our mail person during this Christmas Season.

[John_W]

I understood that the USPS independent contractors bid on their jobs or routes and of course, the lowest bidder wins. Let's say your mail stop operator bids $75,000 and wins. Of course he pays his own gas and provides his own vehicle and if he has to hire part-time help, that's his expense as well. This would all be tax duductiable and would operate much like a Realtor. However, the mail workers are at least guaranteed a check as long as they do the job whereas a Realtor needs to sell houses. I believe this is the plan of the USPS to make all jobs contracted if possible. I agree their job is not easy.

Other than catching them at the mail boxes, how do you suggest we get a "tip" to them. We are currently away for the Holidays and would like to do something for our mail person during this Christmas Season.

Our first four years here we gave our mailman $20 every Christmas, he would drop a card in everybody's mail box. With about 1200 homes in Tamarind Grove where we live, he probably got a good deal of his income for the year from his Christmas cards. This year we got the card a couple of weeks ago and have already sent him a card, however last year we didn't get a card and I asked him about a week before Christmas if he had sent them out, and he said he was running behind and his wife was working on them. We never did get a card. I was thinking to myself, if it was me, I'd have those cards ready to go by July. Anyway, for those who are away, did you save a card from last year? Is there a neighbor that you communicate with by email or letter? They probably got a card. Worse case is when you get back and pick up your mail, your card will be there, better late than never.

[CWGUY]

I just found out that the workers who distribute our mail at our Village Mail Stations are NOT well-paid USPS employees with benefits. The work they do is subcontracted out by the USPS. These hard-working employees are only paid minimum wage and have no benefits. Please keep this in mind when you're planning your Christmas list. Thank you.


Like I said .... Some people Tip. :wave:

You say minimum wage...please verify that by providing your source. I mean no offense it's just difficult to take a complete strangers word on that. Thank you.


Some find reasons not too. :rant-rave:




Does ANYONE think these workers are over paid? :confused: Merry Christmas to all.

[goodtimesintv]

This thread should be titled "Holiday Tipping for Postal Station Workers". They deserve a tip.

[goodtimesintv]

USPS - Contract Delivery Service

https://about.usps.com/suppliers/becoming/contract-delivery-service.htm

[John_W]

goodtimesintv, the first link is not that of a US Govt website, it's actually an employment agency. If you googled to find them, you would of noticed a yellow 'ad' next to the listing, indicating they paid to be placed first. Also, that whole website is nothing more than a come on, perspective job seekers will probably have to pay a fee and will be given the same application that anyone can get at a goverment office. The US Post Office Career Hiring Process | Postal Jobs Authority (http://www.postaljobsauthority.com/hiring-process)

The second link for govenment contract jobs, appears to not show any openings at this time. https://about.usps.com/suppliers/becoming/contract-delivery-service.htm

Here's an actual USPS job information site. https://about.usps.com/careers/welcome.htm After punching in your section of the country and selecting what positions they offered. You would finally get to a page with some jobs listed like cust svc or rural delivery, and you would have to register and submit an application, and someday 3 years from now they would interview you and ask if you want a Christmas job that pays $11 an hour.

The postal service jobs are not that lucrative and not that plentiful. If someone wants to get a good paying job with the governement, they should find out all they can about becoming an Air Traffic Controller.

[D&Lsunfun]

It's their job. If the pay is too low, get another job or add another job.
Our postal person (contractor)
gives cards out wishing a merry Christmas (and reaching out for a tip).
Actually, the don't drive from house to house, the weather conditions are favorable.
They provide a service and receive payment for it.
Does anyone tip the starters at the courses for saying, pull up to the white line.
Or the ambassadors for offering water and sand. What about the meter readers that need to walk up to each house.
Do your own thing!

[KittyKat]

I agree, D&Lsunfun. I found it very pushy the first time I received this 'xmas card/hey, give me a tip.' I don't even know the person. At least up North you knew who your mail carrier was. And yes, I am a very good tipper with waitresses, my hair stylist, etc.

[CassieInVa]

Just yesterday we gave our hard working guy a tip. handed it to him as he unloaded mail from his car at the postal station. He did not expect it and was very grateful. I knew they were not government usps employees, but I didn't realize as contractors they were only getting minimum wage.

[Cedwards38]

If, in fact, they are paid minimum wage, then the bigger issue for me is that we have good workers in America (not China or Bangladesh, etc) who work a forty hour week and still live in poverty. For me this is a strong argument to raise the minimum wage to $15.00. Please don't go political on this. It's not a Republican or Democrat issue. It's a "what's fair in the Land of Plenty" issue.

Even then, I do now and would continue to give the mail station employees a well deserved Christmas time tip.

[Bonnevie]

I consider myself lucky to be in a position to tip these people. I admire that they are working to make a living. So many may prefer to live off welfare. I don't know their circumstances, but I appreciate what they do six days a week, week after week.

[graciegirl]

Miss Manners is looking it up.


Here it is. One never tells others whom and what to tip. One tastefully and kindly decides and keeps it to oneself.


If one tells others whom and what to tip, one runs the risk of ****ing others off.


We all know what we should and will do. AND posts can't pry kindness out of the unkind or instill reality into the Star Wars fans.


Be generous to those who you think need it. If you think you need to keep it in order not to outlive your cash, then keep it.


Be peaceful and happy.


Merry Christmas...and I really mean that part. The other part was just me exercising my fingers on this keyboard, trying to stave off impending arthritis.

[JoMar]

It's their job. If the pay is too low, get another job or add another job.
Our postal person (contractor)
gives cards out wishing a merry Christmas (and reaching out for a tip).
Actually, the don't drive from house to house, the weather conditions are favorable.
They provide a service and receive payment for it.
Does anyone tip the starters at the courses for saying, pull up to the white line.
Or the ambassadors for offering water and sand. What about the meter readers that need to walk up to each house.
Do your own thing!

Now seriously, the starter and ambassadors do their jobs because they want to, gives them play money, great discounts on golf and pro shop stuff. Their families aren't dependent on the income. Some even do it because they have difficulty adjusting to retirement.

Meter readers do not provide a service.

I do agree with do your own thing but hold out hope that the "thing" for most is to reach out to those that provide service to us and, in the spirit of the Holidays, give a hand up. If we live here, we can afford a few bucks.

MO

[outlaw]

I hope all you judgmental givers are also just as generous with the store clerks, the fast food people and the "free" band members that are also toiling to make ends meet. And don't forget the people that plant all the beautiful flowers each quarter, risking their life along the streets. You tippers should really be ashamed of yourselves for not being more inclusive with your giving. In fact, you're acting elitist and superior thinking that these people need your help to live their life. And QUIT bragging about what and to who you give. It's rude.

[D&Lsunfun]

Tipping is a offering for a service provided. We have tipped the: painters, landscapers, delivering men, cable person for extra service. But these people provided a service and didn't send out a card, not only to wish the resident a merry Christmas but to provide their
address for a return card or gift. I am a gift giver, but prefer not to be intimated about giving. As for the wages, if postal station is such a low paying job, then find another job.
The newspaper delivery people deserve a tip for driving to each house 7 days a week in the wee hours of the morning, every day. No holidays off. They pay to operate their vehicles: fuel, tires and repairs. Their wages are pennies for each paper delivered.
Someone sliding mail in a slot in a controlled temperature room is in a different category.

[alanmcdonald]

Our mail person did an outstanding job this year holding and forwarding mail as we were transitioning from our old home to TV and were receiving mail at both locations.

She deserved a Christmas tip and got one.

[Bobstr]

If you might have failed to noticed, my contract mail carrier when they left their address card it also included a postal card stamp rate on it meaning they made an investment in sending you that information for a tip. Its illegal to have anything left in your box postage free.

[villagetinker]

Our postal person mailed a card, yes it had a stamp, and she has personally delivered packages to our house on several occasions, saving us a trip to the "post office", and yes she is getting a tip. She has always been very pleasant, and has provided assistance for a lost package, and IMHO has gone out of her way to make sure medications got to us in a timely manner.

[RickeyD]

To tip, or not to tip, that is the
question. Whether it's nobler or not I don't care.
If it feels good, do it. If not, then don't.

[goodtimesintv]

1. Nobody has even confirmed that the subcontractors are paid just "minimum wage".

2. Nobody has confirmed that an employee of a subcontractor just might be earning much less than the subcontractor (contract holder), because that employee is not paying for in his own:
- background checking,
- fingerprinting,
- bonding insurance,
- all other business insurance,
- vehicle, gas, tires, repairs,
- lawyer services for contract and other government red tape involved,
- workers' compensation premiums
- payroll check services and tax withholding and payment to state and federal revenue depts; and
- required medical insurance if the person works more than 30 hours per week.

3. Does anybody know what business "overhead costs" are, and how this affects what an employer can pay a non-skilled person to do a relatively simple job not in the sun, while still having enough to pay the bills and have some take-home pay???

4. If their pay is indeed minimum wage, I suggest they clean houses for the going rate of $20 per hour, on their own schedule. Most of us have our houses pretty clean on a daily basis and they don't have to deal with filth or hoarders if they choose not to.

5. I don't think anybody should be leaving a card "hinting" at a tip except the newspaper delivery people.

6. Are we supposed to tip the mechanics at the local mom and pop car mechanic shop when they put on our new tires that cost $700, or when they change our oil, because mom & pop have to pay less than a big dealership?

I'm sick of sanctimonious people judging others for not tipping everybody. I tip heavily as a former server and I'm going to tip my mail people.

Nobody here is qualified to judge the rest of us.

[Jima64]

Just love the tip mentality of reward for basically doing the job that is required for the pay. tip jars on store counters are the worst.

[Retiring]

“ 1 'Be careful not to parade your uprightness in public to attract attention; otherwise you will lose all reward from your Father in heaven.
2 So when you give alms, do not have it trumpeted before you; this is what the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win human admiration. In truth I tell you, they have had their reward.
3 But when you give alms, your left hand must not know what your right is doing;
4 your almsgiving must be secret, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you. “

Matthew 6:1-4

[spring_chicken]

I hope all you judgmental givers are also just as generous with the store clerks, the fast food people and the "free" band members that are also toiling to make ends meet. And don't forget the people that plant all the beautiful flowers each quarter, risking their life along the streets. You tippers should really be ashamed of yourselves for not being more inclusive with your giving. In fact, you're acting elitist and superior thinking that these people need your help to live their life. And QUIT bragging about what and to who you give. It's rude.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Villager Joyce]

“ 1 'Be careful not to parade your uprightness in public to attract attention; otherwise you will lose all reward from your Father in heaven.
2 So when you give alms, do not have it trumpeted before you; this is what the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win human admiration. In truth I tell you, they have had their reward.
3 But when you give alms, your left hand must not know what your right is doing;
4 your almsgiving must be secret, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you. “

Matthew 6:1-4

Thanks be to God.

[BogeyBoy]

Direct from the US Postal Service Website: (Emphasis added)

Employee Tipping and Gift-Receiving Policy

All postal employees, including carriers, must comply with the Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Exec*utive Branch. Under these federal regulations, carriers are permitted to accept a gift worth $20 or less from a customer per occasion, such as Christmas. However, cash and cash equivalents, such as checks or gift cards that can be exchanged for cash, must never be accepted in any amount. Furthermore, no employee may accept more than $50 worth of gifts from any one customer in any one calendar year period.

Obviously this policy is broken all the time.

Not all employees in our area are contract employees. Hopefully those who are did their due diligence before bidding. I would guess their contract has a clause very similar to the policy above - and in general terms I think the above policy applies.

[graciegirl]

Direct from the US Postal Service Website: (Emphasis added)

Employee Tipping and Gift-Receiving Policy

All postal employees, including carriers, must comply with the Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Exec*utive Branch. Under these federal regulations, carriers are permitted to accept a gift worth $20 or less from a customer per occasion, such as Christmas. However, cash and cash equivalents, such as checks or gift cards that can be exchanged for cash, must never be accepted in any amount. Furthermore, no employee may accept more than $50 worth of gifts from any one customer in any one calendar year period.

Obviously this policy is broken all the time.

Not all employees in our area are contract employees. Hopefully those who are did their due diligence before bidding. I would guess their contract has a clause very similar to the policy above - and in general terms I think the above policy applies.



Excellent advice. We are all grown up. None of us need guidelines for our gifts. Well some MAY need them, but it isn't our place to give them. And who is anyone to say who needs what.


We have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much time on our hands.


Remember those pesky Pharisees.


And the elves too. They are watching.

[Bogie Shooter]

I agree, D&Lsunfun. I found it very pushy the first time I received this 'xmas card/hey, give me a tip.' I don't even know the person. At least up North you knew who your mail carrier was. And yes, I am a very good tipper with waitresses, my hair stylist, etc.

I know the guy who sorts my mail, know his name and he knows mine.
If you don't even know his name.........................that's your fault!

[CWGUY]

I know the guy who sorts my mail, know his name and he knows mine.
If you don't even know his name.........................that's your fault!

:bowdown: Could not have said it better!:beer3:

[Chi-Town]

Our mail person has been included in our neighborhood Christmas party. And she gets a nice tip by all. The service they provide is invaluable.

[graciegirl]

Our mail person has been included in our neighborhood Christmas party. And she gets a nice tip by all. The service they provide is invaluable.



Gee. Now. The rest of us who don't know their mail person are all feeling unfriendly and unnice. Y'all hang out at the mail drop a lot? Maybe taking your dogs to the potty? I bet that's it. Our cats don't go there. We just go, insert key, remove mail and return home.


I am NOT going to beat myself up over this.


Well...a little. I wouldn't know him or her if I fell over him/her.

[Bonnevie]

wow, I just re-read the initial post and this thread has really gone off the rails. The OP just suggested they think about their carriers. I think it should have ended with Gracie's excellent post about giving if you can and want to and don't if you can't or choose not to. I choose to tip....but I don't pass any judgement on others who can't or chose not to.

[bruce213]

I believe it is a violation of postal regulations to accept any cash or a gift worth over $20.00, and I'm sure that goes for postal contract workers.

[justjim]

I consider myself lucky to be in a position to tip these people. I admire that they are working to make a living. So many may prefer to live off welfare. I don't know their circumstances, but I appreciate what they do six days a week, week after week.

Bonnevie I agree with you. These people are "trying" and I suspect they don't make much money. They have my respect but those that don't "try" and just live off the Government I can be "hard nose"-----get a job---and if you do end up in a low end service job that doesn't pay a lot of money and you do a good job you got my "tip" and my respect. Most of us are very fortunate.

"To whom much is given, much is expected and Generosity can change everything.". :beer3:

[Chi-Town]

Gee. Now. The rest of us who don't know their mail person are all feeling unfriendly and unnice. Y'all hang out at the mail drop a lot? Maybe taking your dogs to the potty? I bet that's it. Our cats don't go there. We just go, insert key, remove mail and return home.


I am NOT going to beat myself up over this.


Well...a little. I wouldn't know him or her if I fell over him/her.


Our mail person call us when necessary, delivers packages to our doors, and keeps out of town mail schedules on track. But maybe it's just our loop. BTW, nobody takes their dogs there. Here is a Christmas picture of my cat who doesn't go there either.

56749

[Villageswimmer]

Gee. Now. The rest of us who don't know their mail person are all feeling unfriendly and unnice. Y'all hang out at the mail drop a lot? Maybe taking your dogs to the potty? I bet that's it. Our cats don't go there. We just go, insert key, remove mail and return home.


I am NOT going to beat myself up over this.


Well...a little. I wouldn't know him or her if I fell over him/her.


Agree. I never thought of my mail pickup as a meet and greet. Even if he--or they? --happens to be there, it never occurred to me to go inside and socialize with him/them. They are working. I guess I'm I unnice, too; although I did send a check upon receiving the card. Didn't really give It much thought. This thread is over the top. :confused:

I, too, would not recognize them if I fell over them. Guess I need to get a dog.

[Boomer]

I know the guy who sorts my mail, know his name and he knows mine.
If you don't even know his name.........................that's your fault!


Bogie, I just gotta tellya, even though I know you could not care less.......

I have been reading your posts for a long time.

Sometimes you really tick me off.

And sometimes I really like you. (like now)

You are an enigma. :)


Boomer

[ajbrown]

To tip, or not to tip, that is the
question. Whether it's nobler or not I don't care.
If it feels good, do it. If not, then don't.

Seems pretty simple.

[Jdmiata]

These are contract employees. No benefits of any kind from the USPS. Routes go up for bid periodically . Low bid gets the contract. Is it a lot ? Is it a little ? That's between the Postal Service and the bidder.

[graciegirl]

Well now that I have seen Chi-town's cat I feel a little better, but not much.

[WhoDat]

This may not be the place to bring this up, but I have been puzzled since I moved here 7 months ago why the mail is not delivered to the house. I think the postal service is responsible for doing that. Was it the developer's decision to not have individual mail boxes at each house? Was it esthetics? Every other place I have lived had a mail box and had delivery to the house. That also allowed me to get to know my delivery person.

[graciegirl]

This may not be the place to bring this up, but I have been puzzled since I moved here 7 months ago why the mail is not delivered to the house. I think the postal service is responsible for doing that. Was it the developer's decision to not have individual mail boxes at each house? Was it esthetics? Every other place I have lived had a mail box and had delivery to the house. That also allowed me to get to know my delivery person.



I don't know WHAT the idea was behind it, but the air conditioned and locked boxes protect our mail and keep our medicines from degrading in the heat. I think that is a very nice feature and prefer it over being chummy with the mail person.

[Barefoot]

This may not be the place to bring this up, but I have been puzzled since I moved here 7 months ago why the mail is not delivered to the house. I think the postal service is responsible for doing that. A responsibility of the postal service to deliver mail to each house? I thought that idea went out with the hula hoop.

[Shimpy]

I don't know WHAT the idea was behind it, but the air conditioned and locked boxes protect our mail and keep our medicines from degrading in the heat.

You have no idea where your medicines have been before getting to your air conditioned box. Probably in a truck roasting at 127 degrees coming down I75.
I'm sold on the security of our mail being locked to protect it when we send and recieve it but would never order drugs to be mailed to me.

[Lovey2]

Our mail person call us when necessary, delivers packages to our doors, and keeps out of town mail schedules on track. But maybe it's just our loop. BTW, nobody takes their dogs there. Here is a Christmas picture of my cat who doesn't go there either.

56749

Just as I was beginning to wonder why I was still reading this post, your baby's picture came up. And now I know! What a cutie!! Glad I didn't miss it!
Merry Christmas!

[simpkinp]

Very cute kitty cat. I personally tip my mail delivery person and appreciate his efforts. He was the first person I met her!

[JoMar]

You have no idea where your medicines have been before getting to your air conditioned box. Probably in a truck roasting at 127 degrees coming down I75.
I'm sold on the security of our mail being locked to protect it when we send and recieve it but would never order drugs to be mailed to me.

Really? You don't think the drugs that are at the drug store come by truck on I75?

[dotti105]

Honestly, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on the forums anymore.

This has been reduced to lots of trivial bickering. The attitude that our postal workers can take minimum wage or move on is a bit out of touch with reality. Many of our residents have forgotten what it was like to struggle to raise a family on minimum wage. Or perhaps never had to do that.

Tips for those who do an excellent job of attending to your personal needs, is always appreciated and often well deserved.

My own opinion is that no one in our country who works 40 hrs a week should live in poverty, as was mentioned before. When I see posts about these workers not deserving tips for "doing their job" it makes me a bit ill.

Some here are very out of touch with the reality of the shrinking middle class and loss of opportunity to better one's position in the US today. I guess it is easy to have that attitude when we are fortunate enough to be retired, with a pension, and a nice portfolio. But for those of us with kids or grandkids trying to make it in the real world today with out the benefit packages we had and social security being an illusion, I am more than happy to show appreciation to those who I feel deserve it and will greatly appreciate it.

Yep, this is why I don't spend much time here anymore. It raises my blood pressure!

[Taltarzac725]

Honestly, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on the forums anymore.

This has been reduced to lots of trivial bickering. The attitude that our postal workers can take minimum wage or move on is a bit out of touch with reality. Many of our residents have forgotten what it was like to struggle to raise a family on minimum wage. Or perhaps never had to do that.

Tips for those who do an excellent job of attending to your personal needs, is always appreciated and often well deserved.

My own opinion is that no one in our country who works 40 hrs a week should live in poverty, as was mentioned before. When I see posts about these workers not deserving tips for "doing their job" it makes me a bit ill.

Some here are very out of touch with the reality of the shrinking middle class and loss of opportunity to better one's position in the US today. I guess it is easy to have that attitude when we are fortunate enough to be retired, with a pension, and a nice portfolio. But for those of us with kids or grandkids trying to make it in the real world today with out the benefit packages we had and social security being an illusion, I am more than happy to show appreciation to those who I feel deserve it and will greatly appreciate it.

Yep, this is why I don't spend much time here anymore. It raises my blood pressure!

Well said.

[biker1]

This is a bit off topic but you brought it up. You referred to "social security being an illusion". You might wish to research the original intent of social security and what it has morphed into over the decades. Presumably your comment was to suggest that social security won't exist in the future. I doubt that is true. It will undoubtedly continue to morph as demographics and politics change. It is best viewed, in my opinion, as a safety net for the elderly and disabled. I believe it is safe to say that it will continue in at least that role for the foreseeable future, the lack of political will at the moment notwithstanding.

Honestly, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on the forums anymore.

This has been reduced to lots of trivial bickering. The attitude that our postal workers can take minimum wage or move on is a bit out of touch with reality. Many of our residents have forgotten what it was like to struggle to raise a family on minimum wage. Or perhaps never had to do that.

Tips for those who do an excellent job of attending to your personal needs, is always appreciated and often well deserved.

My own opinion is that no one in our country who works 40 hrs a week should live in poverty, as was mentioned before. When I see posts about these workers not deserving tips for "doing their job" it makes me a bit ill.

Some here are very out of touch with the reality of the shrinking middle class and loss of opportunity to better one's position in the US today. I guess it is easy to have that attitude when we are fortunate enough to be retired, with a pension, and a nice portfolio. But for those of us with kids or grandkids trying to make it in the real world today with out the benefit packages we had and social security being an illusion, I am more than happy to show appreciation to those who I feel deserve it and will greatly appreciate it.

Yep, this is why I don't spend much time here anymore. It raises my blood pressure!

[graciegirl]

have yourself a merry little christmas youtube - Bing video (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=have+yourself+a+merry+little+christmas+yo utube&view=detail&mid=8F87BEA84AB3C5E7D6D98F87BEA84AB3C5E7D6D9&FORM=VIRE13)

[outlaw]

I tip everyone I come in contact with, even my attorney, who charges lower than the industry standard for legal services. I tip all food servers 50% of the bill. When I get gas, I tip the clerk. Yesterday, I tipped a store clerk that helped me find the men's clothing section. I also try to tip the person collecting store carts in the parking lots. They have such a thankless job. And when the wind is blowing it must be dreadful doing what they do.

[graciegirl]

I tip everyone I come in contact with, even my attorney, who charges lower than the industry standard for legal services. I tip all food servers 50% of the bill. When I get gas, I tip the clerk. Yesterday, I tipped a store clerk that helped me find the men's clothing section. I also try to tip the person collecting store carts in the parking lots. They have such a thankless job. And when the wind is blowing it must be dreadful doing what they do.



Shhhh. Do it quietly. They will know. God will know. We don't need to know.

[MelZ]

Does anyone else think this is a 21st century version of Dickens "A Christmas Carol"?

all that's missing is tiny Tim:a20:

[RickeyD]

Most of us here started out with very little, and many could not afford to go to college even after winning scholarships. Many worked very hard to arrive here and sacrificed and saved. We haven't forgotten how hard life is and many started out poor, if not hungry but didn't realize it until much later, because all were struggling coming out of the depression. Many had few clothes and many were hand sewn, we haven't forgotten that. Or that our shoes were resoled and some didn't have cars. Many are still very careful with money. A lot of us have passed down all of the lessons we learned to do without, save, wait until you can pay for it and work hard and judging from the many friends I keep up with on Facebook, those children and grandchildren, most of them listened, because they do have jobs and they are doing the same as their parents and grandparents. I feel that we are first and foremost responsible for ourselves, our families and those we know well who need our financial support. That doesn't mean that tipping well is not part of most of our lives. Along with appreciation and quietly helping without fanfare or direction.

I can afford it but I don't have my nails done. I could afford it but don't have my house cleaned. Old habits die hard. And I cringe when I see people ask for handouts for themselves on this forum. Proud and old and stubborn, that is me.

As well as blind. Those born before 1950 have seen the American dream come to full fruition in their lifetime and have ridden the wave all the way to retirement concluding with a well funded defined benefit plan, enormous home equity, corporate & public funded medical benefits AND these very same people were able to sock away a tidy savings WITHOUT needing to have their spouse work outside the home so they could raise their children the proper way instead of having to pay strangers to do it for them. Save me the I grew up poor in the depression speech, heard it a thousand times. Try raising a young family with your spouse HAVING to work because you're spending more then half of your monthly income on a high interest mortgage and high taxes because real estate prices more then quadrupled within a 15 year span driven by the baby boomer housing rush. I feel very fortunate to have bought my first house when I was 25 years old. Today young families are lucky just to be able to afford a house and if they do its not until they are in their thirties or forties. Today young people can expect to change jobs more then 7 times, yesteryear's generation stayed on with just one. Today's employers offer no pension, low wages and marginal medical with the employee having to pay half the cost AND not covering the spouse. May I add these ARE college graduates burdened with enormous student loan debt. Those needing day care for their children are consuming 20% of their take home income doing so. This new generation has a very bleak retirement future indeed because they know they won't be able to.
If people WANT to tip, let them and don't put them down for wanting to. If they want to think of themselves as silent hero's, let them, it's their prerogative to do so.

[Cedwards38]

Honestly, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on the forums anymore.

This has been reduced to lots of trivial bickering. The attitude that our postal workers can take minimum wage or move on is a bit out of touch with reality. Many of our residents have forgotten what it was like to struggle to raise a family on minimum wage. Or perhaps never had to do that.

Tips for those who do an excellent job of attending to your personal needs, is always appreciated and often well deserved.

My own opinion is that no one in our country who works 40 hrs a week should live in poverty, as was mentioned before. When I see posts about these workers not deserving tips for "doing their job" it makes me a bit ill.

Some here are very out of touch with the reality of the shrinking middle class and loss of opportunity to better one's position in the US today. I guess it is easy to have that attitude when we are fortunate enough to be retired, with a pension, and a nice portfolio. But for those of us with kids or grandkids trying to make it in the real world today with out the benefit packages we had and social security being an illusion, I am more than happy to show appreciation to those who I feel deserve it and will greatly appreciate it.

Yep, this is why I don't spend much time here anymore. It raises my blood pressure!

Good points!

And, I might add, how is a minimum wage worker receiving a tip for "doing their job" any different from the hefty company bonuses that many of you used to receive for "doing your job?"

[justjim]

Honestly, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I remember why I don't spend much time on the forums anymore.

This has been reduced to lots of trivial bickering. The attitude that our postal workers can take minimum wage or move on is a bit out of touch with reality. Many of our residents have forgotten what it was like to struggle to raise a family on minimum wage. Or perhaps never had to do that.

Tips for those who do an excellent job of attending to your personal needs, is always appreciated and often well deserved.

My own opinion is that no one in our country who works 40 hrs a week should live in poverty, as was mentioned before. When I see posts about these workers not deserving tips for "doing their job" it makes me a bit ill.

Some here are very out of touch with the reality of the shrinking middle class and loss of opportunity to better one's position in the US today. I guess it is easy to have that attitude when we are fortunate enough to be retired, with a pension, and a nice portfolio. But for those of us with kids or grandkids trying to make it in the real world today with out the benefit packages we had and social security being an illusion, I am more than happy to show appreciation to those who I feel deserve it and will greatly appreciate it.

Yep, this is why I don't spend much time here anymore. It raises my blood pressure!

Well said and spot on and amen. Most of us are very fortunate. The 0ne and two percent have been gaining income and the middle class has been shrinking. It's just a fact and not really a political statement one way or the other either.

Many think one political party are all rich but there are more millionaires in the U.S. Senate on the other side that are actually millionaires.

Many of us started out very poor and worked hard, took advantage of opportunities, and are fortunate to spend our "twilight years" in The Villages. My last word on "tipping"---just let your conscience be your guide and be thankful to be an American!

[graciegirl]

...youtube carol of the bells - Bing video (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+carol+of+the+bells&view=detail&mid=A9B5834AD51C9FB173C1A9B5834AD51C9FB173C1&FORM=VIRE13)

[Boomer]

Oh, never mind. I just deleted my post. I knew I could get caught up in this all afternoon and not get anything done.

[justjim]

As well as blind. Those born before 1950 have seen the American dream come to full fruition in their lifetime and have ridden the wave all the way to retirement concluding with a well funded defined benefit plan, enormous home equity, corporate & public funded medical benefits AND these very same people were able to sock away a tidy savings WITHOUT needing to have their spouse work outside the home so they could raise their children the proper way instead of having to pay strangers to do it for them. Save me the I grew up poor in the depression speech, heard it a thousand times. Try raising a young family with your spouse HAVING to work because you're spending more then half of your monthly income on a high interest mortgage and high taxes because real estate prices more then quadrupled within a 15 year span driven by the baby boomer housing rush. I feel very fortunate to have bought my first house when I was 25 years old. Today young families are lucky just to be able to afford a house and if they do its not until they are in their thirties or forties. Today young people can expect to change jobs more then 7 times, yesteryear's generation stayed on with just one. Today's employers offer no pension, low wages and marginal medical with the employee having to pay half the cost AND not covering the spouse. May I add these ARE college graduates burdened with enormous student loan debt. Those needing day care for their children are consuming 20% of their take home income doing so. This new generation has a very bleak retirement future indeed because they know they won't be able to.
If people WANT to tip, let them and don't put them down for wanting to. If they want to think of themselves as silent hero's, let them, it's their prerogative to do so.

Rickey, with all due respect, where did you get your data that those born before 1950 had the American Dream and those after 1950 don't? My observation is somewhat different. I was born a decade before 1950. Many my age grew up without Father's because they didn't make it back home following the Big War.

Many fathers came back wounded, hardly able to work And there was no housing available. It was tough for many families. Many of the children from that generation were the first to graduate from college---some after they were married and had children.

Bottom line----every age group has it opportunities and it's stories. The silent generation, baby boomers, generation X, generation y or Millennium generations all have opportunities living in this great country of ours. But---it's not easy and you may have to sacrifice during some of those early years, work hard, save, and never give up and you can capture at least part of the American dream.

Our age group are far from blind, rather we still believe the American Dream still exists but you still must take advantage of the opportunities that come your way and you don't give up because everything isn't given to you on the silver platter.

[KeepingItReal]

My last word on "tipping"---just let your conscience be your guide and be thankful to be an American!


Does anyone really think their tip is actually going to change someone's entire life? Most that really tip well don't pat themselves on the back and go telling everyone about it!

:jester:

[MelZ]

Let's take a break and learn about Christmas spirit from Charles Dickens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRrlurEKg1w

1951 Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG98tWXAsik

1938 version

BTW do as you please when it comes to tipping, but I love the story

[CFrance]

As well as blind. Those born before 1950 have seen the American dream come to full fruition in their lifetime and have ridden the wave all the way to retirement concluding with a well funded defined benefit plan, enormous home equity, corporate & public funded medical benefits AND these very same people were able to sock away a tidy savings WITHOUT needing to have their spouse work outside the home so they could raise their children the proper way instead of having to pay strangers to do it for them. Save me the I grew up poor in the depression speech, heard it a thousand times. Try raising a young family with your spouse HAVING to work because you're spending more then half of your monthly income on a high interest mortgage and high taxes because real estate prices more then quadrupled within a 15 year span driven by the baby boomer housing rush. I feel very fortunate to have bought my first house when I was 25 years old. Today young families are lucky just to be able to afford a house and if they do its not until they are in their thirties or forties. Today young people can expect to change jobs more then 7 times, yesteryear's generation stayed on with just one. Today's employers offer no pension, low wages and marginal medical with the employee having to pay half the cost AND not covering the spouse. May I add these ARE college graduates burdened with enormous student loan debt. Those needing day care for their children are consuming 20% of their take home income doing so. This new generation has a very bleak retirement future indeed because they know they won't be able to.
If people WANT to tip, let them and don't put them down for wanting to. If they want to think of themselves as silent hero's, let them, it's their prerogative to do so.
Like

[graciegirl]

Like



I think it is an ideological debate. I think it goes further than the surface. I think that many of us really DON'T know others on this forum well enough to judge whether they are right or wrong in their values, and who can judge another's values anyway.


I don't want to outlive my money. I could do with very little and still be happy. Most of us are like that. I know one thing. No one I know has stolen or connived or cheated to get the money they have. We have not harmed others to get where we are. Many of us have children and grandchildren who are heading in the right direction and that we can take a little credit for. If we take care of our own, that is the first responsibility we have. Teach them and turn them loose unless they are disabled.


Our lives teach us many lessons, and bragging about the good we do is usually not something that others admire.


Some of us are very good at reading between the lines in life and on this forum. We know who are decent folks and who are bull ****ters.

[CFrance]

I think it is an ideological debate. I think it goes further than the surface. I think that many of us really DON'T know others on this forum well enough to judge whether they are right or wrong in their values, and who can judge another's values anyway.


I don't want to outlive my money. I could do with very little and still be happy. Most of us are like that. I know one thing. No one I know has stolen or connived or cheated to get the money they have. We have not harmed others to get where we are. Many of us have children and grandchildren who are heading in the right direction and that we can take a little credit for. If we take care of our own, that is the first responsibility we have. Teach them and turn them loose unless they are disabled.


Our lives teach us many lessons, and bragging about the good we do is usually not something that others admire.


Some of us are very good at reading between the lines in life and on this forum. We know who are decent folks and who are bull ****ters.
To me, it matters not who said it or whether it was a genuine sentiment of that particular person; it is what they said that matters. I happen to agree with what RickyD said, and also with what Dotti said earlier. Their words convey my sentiments better than I could myself.

And I don't agree that those who have reached a certain financial level would be quite happy with less. Money may not buy happiness, but it sure does make life easier.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

We sent them a gift card so they could enjoy a nice meal. They do a great job. I do not know what they get paid but to my knowledge they bid on the job and it is a set fee... not an hourly rate. Encourage all to give them a little Christmas spiff!

[Diver]

Most of the people who are service workers in the Villages are paid only $9 to $10 per hour. I am working two jobs,one of which is cleaning a rec center. I don't expeict to be tipped, but I would not say no to anyone who did. We are Villages homeowners and are just paying our bills.

[Shimpy]

Really? You don't think the drugs that are at the drug store come by truck on I75?


JoMar......You're right, I never thought of that. Almost all drugs require you to keep them at "room temps" but how are they shipped to us? I would hope like steaks or seafood in refrigerated trucks but really doubt it.

[gomoho]

Good points!

And, I might add, how is a minimum wage worker receiving a tip for "doing their job" any different from the hefty company bonuses that many of you used to receive for "doing your job?"

Well the bonus was paid by the employer - not the customer - and only in the good years. The difficult years yielded no bonus. Apples and oranges.

[graciegirl]

Well the bonus was paid by the employer - not the customer - and only in the good years. The difficult years yielded no bonus. Apples and oranges.



Like.

[RickeyD]

I think it is an ideological debate. I think it goes further than the surface. I think that many of us really DON'T know others on this forum well enough to judge whether they are right or wrong in their values, and who can judge another's values anyway.


I don't want to outlive my money. I could do with very little and still be happy. Most of us are like that. I know one thing. No one I know has stolen or connived or cheated to get the money they have. We have not harmed others to get where we are. Many of us have children and grandchildren who are heading in the right direction and that we can take a little credit for. If we take care of our own, that is the first responsibility we have. Teach them and turn them loose unless they are disabled.


Our lives teach us many lessons, and bragging about the good we do is usually not something that others admire.


Some of us are very good at reading between the lines in life and on this forum. We know who are decent folks and who are bull ****ters.

Like

[JSR22]

I tipped our mail person 30 today and she was very excited. I am very happy I made her happy

[RickeyD]

Most of the people who are service workers in the Villages are paid only $9 to $10 per hour. I am working two jobs,one of which is cleaning a rec center. I don't expeict to be tipped, but I would not say no to anyone who did. We are Villages homeowners and are just paying our bills.

I know how you feel. I was forced to restart myself at 40 years old. At 41 I was raising 3 children on minimum wage which was 8 bucks an hour back then. I counted on but never asked for the hundred bucks or so I was getting per week in tips. I really appreciated it and showed my appreciation with a very thankful Thank You. Could I have survived without the tips ? Yes, but it made life a little easier.

[RickeyD]

Rickey, with all due respect, where did you get your data that those born before 1950 had the American Dream and those after 1950 don't? My observation is somewhat different. I was born a decade before 1950. Many my age grew up without Father's because they didn't make it back home following the Big War.

Many fathers came back wounded, hardly able to work And there was no housing available. It was tough for many families. Many of the children from that generation were the first to graduate from college---some after they were married and had children.

Bottom line----every age group has it opportunities and it's stories. The silent generation, baby boomers, generation X, generation y or Millennium generations all have opportunities living in this great country of ours. But---it's not easy and you may have to sacrifice during some of those early years, work hard, save, and never give up and you can capture at least part of the American dream.

Our age group are far from blind, rather we still believe the American Dream still exists but you still must take advantage of the opportunities that come your way and you don't give up because everything isn't given to you on the silver platter.

My point is this. Those born during the sweet spot era rode the bell curve up towards the American dream. Those born after, are riding the curve down. This dream is becoming unreachable for millions of people year after year. Many reasons exist for this which would make for another thread.

[RickeyD]

Well the bonus was paid by the employer - not the customer - and only in the good years. The difficult years yielded no bonus. Apples and oranges.

The employer paid it, not the customer ? Come on now.

[goodtimesintv]

Most of the people who are service workers in the Villages are paid only $9 to $10 per hour. I am working two jobs,one of which is cleaning a rec center. I don't expeict to be tipped, but I would not say no to anyone who did. We are Villages homeowners and are just paying our bills.

Thank you for a statement of fact and reality. (I read it a couple of times, unsure if the $9-$10 per hour is considered unjust, but I'll take it as just a statement of fact--not a complaint). I admire you for working two jobs and living within your means.

I respectfully ask:

a) As Villages homeowners, could you afford to live here as homeowners if our monthly amenities fees were raised to $450/mo instead of $145/mo, so that cleaning/janitorial and other maintenance workers employed by our community development district (our "city government") could be paid minimum $19/hour?

b) Could elderly residents of TV living on the lowest incomes here continue to afford to live here if our amenities fees were $450/mo instead of $145/mo so that cleaning/janitorial and other maintenance jobs here could pay minimum $19/hour?

Personally, I don't think so. There are reasons why wages are lower here, and one key reason is the affordability the developers planned so that homeownership is possible for people of ALL income levels, and so they "can live like a millionaire" without paying dues to country clubs, public golf course seasonal passes, YMCA and other fitness facilities, personal fitness trainers, paid fitness/sport instruction/clinics, etc. etc.

I think this quote below rings true, and affordability for all income levels is what makes TV uniquely inclusive with "diversity" of personal income. That affordability would not be available to the lowest income residents here if the amenities fees had to be twice as high so workers could be paid twice as much.

"“The nice thing about The Villages is that you have that small, hometown feel,” said Bock, who earned a silver medal in the Senior Games women’s doubles pickleball competition. “Harold Schwartz, who was the founder, said his idea for The Villages was that the common person could live like a millionaire, and he’s made that possible.”

Florida community well represented, well prepared at Senior Games - StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/florida-community-well-represented-well-prepared-at-senior-games/314479181/)

[graciegirl]

This thread has managed to make a good many people feel terrible and has hurt some feelings and even made a few angry.


I don't think that talking about giving is meant to do that.


Christmas is the birthday of a king born long ago and is meant to be a happy time and a time for giving and feasting and sharing good things.

[dbussone]

I think it is an ideological debate. I think it goes further than the surface. I think that many of us really DON'T know others on this forum well enough to judge whether they are right or wrong in their values, and who can judge another's values anyway.


I don't want to outlive my money. I could do with very little and still be happy. Most of us are like that. I know one thing. No one I know has stolen or connived or cheated to get the money they have. We have not harmed others to get where we are. Many of us have children and grandchildren who are heading in the right direction and that we can take a little credit for. If we take care of our own, that is the first responsibility we have. Teach them and turn them loose unless they are disabled.


Our lives teach us many lessons, and bragging about the good we do is usually not something that others admire.


Some of us are very good at reading between the lines in life and on this forum. We know who are decent folks and who are bull ****ters.


Gracie - sage just doesn't cut it. I am officially requesting that TOTV create a new category: "perspicacious sage". And I hereby nominate you for the sole member of that category!

Merry Christmas and my very best wishes for you and yours throughout 2016.