Another look at the Subprime Problem

[Guest]

I found this an interesting read.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162789

[Guest]

at one time was a less than 5% entity of the total mortgage market. I don't know what the current numbers are but I would bet they are still less than (I'll be generous) 10% of the total mortgage market.
So there has to be something else to blame.
The so called foreclosure rate being up 50% over last year, last week, when ever isn't the appropriate measure....for those who understand numbers. You know there could have been 10 last week and now there are 20 and the media would run a headline yelling OMG it has doubled.
Foreclosures 6 months ago were less tha 5% of all mortgages...who cares how much it is up....that means 95% are still good.
What is not separated out of the number are the housing speculators, taking out mortgages the knew they could not cover for multiple dwellings with the intent of flipping them and getting rich....and then have the money to pay off the loans....when things went bust hey walked away from the loans for multiple dwellings.
One has to dig to find these kinds of numbers as they certainly will never be presented by the politicians nor the media.
Banks just got to the point where the unlucky and dumb ones....also looking to ride the unending upside wave, allowed the loans. When people walked away from these loan there were insufficient asstes to secure the debt.
Banks of old just did not do stupid things like this.
Minority or not if you didn't pass the credit/loan worthiness investigation...you simply did not get the loan.
Did you know automotive companies had no problem lending folks with bad credit money to buy the cars at a significantly higher interest rate.
They knew many would not be able to make the payments. How about an answer like this from a very big Ford dealer in KY.....we make money when we sell the car....we make money on the high interest...and we make even more money when we repossess the car.
Now apply that to the housing industry....but you will never find this stuff in the analysis of the problem by the media or the politicians.

GREED! Plus the credit risk folks with their hand out demanding where's mine...the permissive society that allows everybody should have what you have....and on and on.....
If this bothers anybody and it should....just wait for the plethora of wealth re distribution that is ahead in our future.

Hard work....money in the bank....good credit....reliable consumers....all past concepts going the way of the dinosoars!!!!

The only folks who are not able to participate in all the free $$$$$ being given away are those who have good credit...make their payments every month.....you know....THE SILENT MAJORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look this stuff up.....you won't see it in the news....or hear it from the politicians....and they don't expect to hear from we the people.....AND THEY DON'T!!!!!

BTK

[Guest]

Part of the reason you won't see this is because no one keeps track of how many sub-prime loans are held by speculators. And then there are the standard loans on properties where the homeowner is now upside down on the mortgage -- no problem as long as you don't have to move. What happens if you house is now worth $40,000 less than the mortgage and you've been transferred to another city?

[Guest]

at one time was a less than 5% entity of the total mortgage market. I don't know what the current numbers are but I would bet they are still less than (I'll be generous) 10% of the total mortgage market.
So there has to be something else to blame.
The so called foreclosure rate being up 50% over last year, last week, when ever isn't the appropriate measure....for those who understand numbers. You know there could have been 10 last week and now there are 20 and the media would run a headline yelling OMG it has doubled.
Foreclosures 6 months ago were less tha 5% of all mortgages...who cares how much it is up....that means 95% are still good.
What is not separated out of the number are the housing speculators, taking out mortgages the knew they could not cover for multiple dwellings with the intent of flipping them and getting rich....and then have the money to pay off the loans....when things went bust hey walked away from the loans for multiple dwellings.
One has to dig to find these kinds of numbers as they certainly will never be presented by the politicians nor the media.
Banks just got to the point where the unlucky and dumb ones....also looking to ride the unending upside wave, allowed the loans. When people walked away from these loan there were insufficient asstes to secure the debt.
Banks of old just did not do stupid things like this.
Minority or not if you didn't pass the credit/loan worthiness investigation...you simply did not get the loan.
Did you know automotive companies had no problem lending folks with bad credit money to buy the cars at a significantly higher interest rate.
They knew many would not be able to make the payments. How about an answer like this from a very big Ford dealer in KY.....we make money when we sell the car....we make money on the high interest...and we make even more money when we repossess the car.
Now apply that to the housing industry....but you will never find this stuff in the analysis of the problem by the media or the politicians.

GREED! Plus the credit risk folks with their hand out demanding where's mine...the permissive society that allows everybody should have what you have....and on and on.....
If this bothers anybody and it should....just wait for the plethora of wealth re distribution that is ahead in our future.

Hard work....money in the bank....good credit....reliable consumers....all past concepts going the way of the dinosoars!!!!

The only folks who are not able to participate in all the free $$$$$ being given away are those who have good credit...make their payments every month.....you know....THE SILENT MAJORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look this stuff up.....you won't see it in the news....or hear it from the politicians....and they don't expect to hear from we the people.....AND THEY DON'T!!!!!

BTK


Good points BTK.....especially ...."just wait for the plethora of wealth re distribution that is ahead in our future." It will come in bunches !!!

[Guest]

What is this wealth redistribution? Haven't you heard the middle class has taken it in the shorts for the last eight years. So now we may get a tax cut and you call it wealth redistribution.

I would say.....ITS ABOUT D**N TIME.

[Guest]

What is this wealth redistribution? Haven't you heard the middle class has taken it in the shorts for the last eight years. So now we may get a tax cut and you call it wealth redistribution.

I would say.....ITS ABOUT D**N TIME.



Look up what wealth distribution amounts to will you ?????

Seems that the american dream is fine with Sen Obama as long as you are not TOO successful then you gotta share !!!

[Guest]

Good points BTK.....especially ...."just wait for the plethora of wealth re distribution that is ahead in our future." It will come in bunches !!!

:agree::agree::agree:

[Guest]

Look up what wealth distribution amounts to will you ?????

Seems that the American dream is fine with Sen Obama as long as you are not TOO successful then you gotta share !!!

Bucco...The current President subscribed to Reaganonmics..or Trickle Down economics. Bush Sr. called it Voodoo economics. Bush cut taxes on the weathly saying that this would in turn spur the economy and the effect of that would trickle down to the middle class. Look around 9 months of job losses. Stagnent wages, layoff, healthcare cuts....it goes on and on. McCain wants more of the same.

Obama says instead of trickle down we should go bottom up. The middle class really is the engine of our economy.


Seems that the American dream is fine with Sen Obama as long as you are not TOO successful then you gotta share I would rephrase this statement....to then you have to pay your fair share of the tax bill.

I remember a famous saying- There are 2 things you can't avoid.. Death and Taxes.

[Guest]

While in the Villages recently on a Lifestyle Preview, we drove by several of the foreclosures in the Villages. One foreclosure service claims that there are 51 of them in the Villages. The problem is apparently not limited to inner city poor people who were allowed to over extend on their mortgages.

[Guest]

I think the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

We've all heard the promise of middle class tax cuts before - back in 1992. It helped get Bill Clinton elected. The trouble is that this was nothing but a hollow promise to the naive in order to buy their vote - there was never a real intent to lower taxes for the middle class. Rather than a tax cut, he increased taxes. I suspect Obama has borrowed a page from the Clinton playbook and unfortunately a lot of naive people are buying it. Anyone who makes less than $250K and thinks they are in for a tax reduction by Obama may as well take their money and invest in the Brooklyn Bridge - they both will net the same payback.

[Guest]

I think the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

We've all heard the promise of middle class tax cuts before - back in 1992. It helped get Bill Clinton elected. The trouble is that this was nothing but a hollow promise to the naive in order to buy their vote - there was never a real intent to lower taxes for the middle class. Rather than a tax cut, he increased taxes. I suspect Obama has borrowed a page from the Clinton playbook and unfortunately a lot of naive people are buying it. Anyone who makes less than $250K and thinks they are in for a tax reduction by Obama may as well take their money and invest in the Brooklyn Bridge - they both will net the same payback.

So let me understand something....Obama is lying about the middle class tax cuts so I should vote for McCain who openly says he will raise my taxes.

That makes sense.....NOT.

[Guest]

Where on earth are you getting the notion that McCain has said that he wants to raise your taxes??? It sounds to me like you need to check the veracity of your sources for information. Afterall, an enlightened voter is a responsible voter.

[Guest]

So let me understand something....Obama is lying about the middle class tax cuts so I should vote for McCain who openly says he will raise my taxes.

That makes sense.....NOT.


Never heard the one about McCain saying he would raise taxes !!!!!

Sen Obama feels we should all be on the same playing field. If you are too successful, you gotta share. Thus if I were young, I would not care one iota about succeeding....someone else will pay until nobody cares anymore...that is what sinks socialist countires !

[Guest]

Where on earth are you getting the notion that McCain has said that he wants to raise your taxes??? It sounds to me like you need to check the veracity of your sources for information. Afterall, an enlightened voter is a responsible voter.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq115/cologal_223/GR2008061200193.gif

I know my tax bracket and I am better off with Obama.

[Guest]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq115/cologal_223/GR2008061200193.gif

I know my tax bracket and I am better off with Obama.

AH, the Robin Hood effect! Maybe it worked in Medieval times, but has no place in a free society. Wealthy people are not the land barons of old, keeping people in peasantry to support their grand lifestyle.

What happens with all the wealth the 1% at the top have? MY GOSH, some stays in the banking system! Available to all the people in the lower percentages to borrow at a decent rate. Some start businesses that purchase good and services and higher employees who earn wages! Some goes into the stock and bond market so that other businesses can create JOBS!

Some people think that having a lot of money is evil and that it should be taken (taxed) away from them and given to others to make life "fair". The contrary is true. The money that runs our country comes FROM people with money, and taxing it away from them doesn't help lower income workers, it hurts them buy not having upper peoples wealth to borrow, or their employers to purchase supplies or businesses to create jobs.

Wealth redistribution is not he way to a wealthy society.

[Guest]

Actually the wealth redistribution started 8 years ago with the Bush tax cuts. If you look around the Trickle down affect of giving money to the wealthy so that they will in turn shower it down to the middle class in the form of jobs has been totally disproven. Since the Bush tax cuts how many jobs have gone overseas? Recently 9 straight months of job losses and 750,000 jobs lost just this year.

I would have to say that your comment

Some goes into the stock and bond market so that other businesses can create JOBS!

Right about now that statement rings just a little hallow.

In this country we have job losses and wage stagnation.

[Guest]

I've got to admit that that's the first time I've ever heard the connection between Bush's tax cuts and job outsourcing. Sounds like quite a creative thought.

What's next? Perhaps the tax cuts are also responsible for our obesity problem. So, I guess if we raise taxes on those making more than $250K per year they will somehow be more inclined to hire expensive Americans and less inclined to hire cheap Indian/Chinese labor. Fascinating logic.

[Guest]

Actually the wealth redistribution started 8 years ago with the Bush tax cuts. If you look around the Trickle down affect of giving money to the wealthy so that they will in turn shower it down to the middle class in the form of jobs has been totally disproven. Since the Bush tax cuts how many jobs have gone overseas? Recently 9 straight months of job losses and 750,000 jobs lost just this year.

I would have to say that your comment

Some goes into the stock and bond market so that other businesses can create JOBS!

Right about now that statement rings just a little hallow.

In this country we have job losses and wage stagnation.

TAX CUTS have nothing to do with losing jobs.. Have you ever heard of NAFTA and Clinton ?:cus::cus::cus:

[Guest]

Read the post above mine...The entire theory of Reagenomics is to cut taxes for the rich and business which will allow them to invest in new business which in turn creates jobs. But it doesn't work..

In fact McCain is proposing more tax cuts and cuts in capital gains which he says, not me, WILL CREATE MORE JOBS.

I know Clinton is evil incarnate...the source, it would seem, of all of our current problems. You guys need to get off the Fox Noise koolaid.

The Repubs also wanted a GLOBAL economy, free marketing and deregulation. And by the way when they were in power they never met a spending bill they didn't like. Bush got handled a surplus and look at us now.

I am not voting for more of the same.

[Guest]

things are.
I don't care what the example or the issue, the numerical minority is the only topic.....how about:
>mortgages not in default? still above 90%
>foreclosures? less than 5% of the total
>employment? 95% still working!!
>total number of taxpayers paying the majority of the taxes? a numerically small number never talked about!!!!
>total number of tax payers paying the least or no tax? a really big number we never hear about.
Just to name a few.
The media and politicos will alway only talk about the "emotional" side of a subject.

As far as socialism....I always wonder just how many people really know and understand how it really works.
How about everybody get a college education....no cost to the individual.
How about everybody gets free health care...no cost to the individual.

The only part of these two examples that is not correct is the no cost to the individuals. What is not mentioned is their tax rates are easily...EASILY...2 or 3 or 4 times ours. It also means everybody pays taxes, not just the wealthy.
It is also not mentioned that the quality of the schools is less as there is a flat compensation scale regardless of tenure or capability.
The quality of the health care suffers for similar reasons....and don't forget to get in line and wait your turn....regardless whether life threatening or not!!!

I used to have executives in socialist countries who would negotiate their compensation package on the basis of a low salary but very filled with untaxable perks that netted out to a gain.....like a new company owned luxury car....every year....all expenses/maintenance paid....always a way to skin the cat...legally I might add.

So when all these freebies add up here in the USA....rebates....bail outs...health care....and on and on....yes it is migrating toward socialism.....and YES.....your taxes will ultimately be going up.....I don't care who the candidate is that is fluffing up the hype of no increased taxes.

YOUR TAXES WILL BE GOING UP! Your life style will not be the same. Your choices will be fewer. And the silent majority will nod, get in line and continue to do nothing......as per usual.

Now who is for more government? Socialism? Free everything?

BTK

[Guest]

between Bush's tax cuts and job outsourcing.

Ok point taken so I will rephrase....

Since the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to create jobs how many jobs have been lost in this country?

I believe 9 straight months of job losses with 750,000 jobs lost.

[Guest]

Your timeframe is inappropriate for your conclusions. After the tax cuts there were millions of jobs added and a very robust economy. What we are experiencing now is the collapse of a bubble - just like the early Bush years we experienced the collapse of the Clinton/dotcom bubble economy.

[Guest]

Your timeframe is inappropriate for your conclusions. After the tax cuts there were millions of jobs added and a very robust economy. What we are experiencing now is the collapse of a bubble - just like the early Bush years we experienced the collapse of the Clinton/dotcom bubble economy.

Sure the standard Repub line.....Its Clinton's fault. :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Keep drinking the Koolaide

[Guest]

No, you didn't read my post. I assigned no blame to Clinton about the bubble that occured under his administration. My only point was that bubbles are inherently unstable. When the bubble from the Clinton years collapsed, the Bush response of lowering taxes did work in terms of stimulating the economy and hence created/restored millions of jobs lost when the dotcom bubble collapsed. Now we have the collapse of the housing bubble and the resulting loss of jobs. To try to blame this on the Bush tax cuts is just plain silly - in fact one could say it is the result of drinking the Dem koolaid where everything is Bush's fault.

[Guest]

No, you didn't read my post. I assigned no blame to Clinton about the bubble that occurred under his administration. My only point was that bubbles are inherently unstable. When the bubble from the Clinton years collapsed, the Bush response of lowering taxes did work in terms of stimulating the economy and hence created/restored millions of jobs lost when the dotcom bubble collapsed. Now we have the collapse of the housing bubble and the resulting loss of jobs. To try to blame this on the Bush tax cuts is just plain silly - in fact one could say it is the result of drinking the Dem koolaid where everything is Bush's fault.

Sorry you are right I didn't read your post correctly. I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors. Bush never vetoed a spending bill until the Dems got control. The tax cuts, out of control spending and the cost of the Iraq war have led us to the cliff. I am more of a moderate Democrat who believes in a balanced budget. Clinton did that...so I favor paygo. If you want anything new something has to go. I have repeatly said Obama is not my guy..I do not sip his koolaid....but I can in no way vote for McCain.

[Guest]

From cologal:
I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors.

End quote

I take exception to this slander of Sailors. We spend the same sober....I think

[Guest]

From cologal:
I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors.

End quote

I take exception to this slander of Sailors. We spend the same sober....I think

Ok its the laugh of the day...no offense intended to any sailors.

:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Guest]

NO country has ever TAXED itself towards wealth. Raising taxes on any income bracket is a wrong idea. Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes.

I can agree with you that government desperately needs to reduce spending and that should be the top priority of either candidate.

The economy is in this mess because government (both red and blue) is always playing with the laws of free trade. They are constantly trying to rig the system to get what they believe to be our best interest. We can decide what is in our best interest.

The job issue? Do you think that government creates jobs? A free market is what creates or looses jobs. Are auto workers losing jobs (not related to the current financial crises) because of outsourcing that the government should be protecting them from or because it is the American right to buy the best quality car at the best possible price? Our auto industry is dieing because of high costs for what they produce and lower quality engineering (as shown by Consumer Reports and other auto rating services)?

To blame Bush and through osmosis McCain and the Republicans as a whole for what is happening in our industries job loses and economy is just :cus:

Look up the series "Free To Choose" on the idea channel, watch the original 80's programing and see how choices individuals and our government make, make a mess of our economic system.

[Guest]

" Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes."

Thats cracks me up beyond belief. Does ANYONE actually believe either one of these guys wont raise taxes. What the heck is gonna pay for the gobs of money we are handing out b/w the bailout and the "war". Even the simplest of minds can realize that taxes ARE going to rise. They always do, the always will, and we have sealed the deal now.

Anyone can lie now about what they will or wont do, numbers wont lie.

[Guest]

" Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes."

Thats cracks me up beyond belief. Does ANYONE actually believe either one of these guys wont raise taxes. What the heck is gonna pay for the gobs of money we are handing out b/w the bailout and the "war". Even the simplest of minds can realize that taxes ARE going to rise. They always do, the always will, and we have sealed the deal now.

Anyone can lie now about what they will or wont do, numbers wont lie.

That quote was in reference to COLO's chart where only Obama's side shows a tax increase. Obama is the only one of the two that repeatedly has stated publicly, on all form of media, that he is going to raise taxes. I will agree that unless government CUTS spending it will most certainly raise taxes, whoever wins the Presidency.

I WAS simple minded to expect that unless my response is spelled specifically and with qualifiers, that Someone would answer with a sarcastic remark. "That cracks me up"

[Guest]

Let's see: anyone out there old eneough to have endured, and may be just heard from Grandparents, of Panem & Circus? ***

The Pandering this election seems more so tahn in the past---here's what I can give you. No, here's what I can give you.

Hopefully a decently balanced Congrtess will have the sense to water down these two Candidates.

Artiifcal or not. long or intermediate term: there's folks suffering there : no health care, etc while the DJ plummets; an dwe hand out Billions to corporations. Wonder what somefuture Herodotus will write.

Should I vote my Pocketbook? Then, it's McCain. But really, both are "off the wall" with some of their proposed Handouts! Probably more important to just vote your "Party" and hope for some sanity next four years (the sooner the better)





*** The fall of Rome attributed to the Holidays (about half of the year) and free Bread given out at the free games.

[Guest]

"What happens with all the wealth the 1% at the top have? MY GOSH, some stays in the banking system!

Sarcasm? Hmmmmm.

And it does crack me up really, the fact that everyone is screaming that Obama will raise taxes...I guess I figure at least he is honest about it. There is no way taxes won't go up, hence my hyperbole about even the most simple minded...definately not a direct reference to anyone in particular...though I stand by what I said. I just find it funny in a sad way that all of this spin and propaganda still appeals to people, and even worse is still perpetrated by candidates on both sides of the aisle.
Taxes are going up no matter which horse you picked in this race, so there is no sense in trying to smear one or the other with the sin of raising taxes.
I am distressed by the current tax problem but at this point am willing to bend a little to get out of this mess...was naively hoping that a leader would step foward and demand cuts on the millions upon millions of waste and perks while asking me to give more. Special intrests gruops will likely bribe congress in quashing that though.