Spreading the wealth around

[Guest]

I have said in other threads that I have pretty much given up in talking about Sen Obama and his ONLY training which is socialism. People keep telling me that he wont take this country to socialism or anything like that.

Listen, I know the video below is from Fox News but it is actual video that tells you a bit....Sen Obama tells a man who questions him that he wants "to spread the wealth around a bit"...listen and think about it.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153

[Guest]

I have said in other threads that I have pretty much given up in talking about Sen Obama and his ONLY training which is socialism. People keep telling me that he wont take this country to socialism or anything like that.

Listen, I know the video below is from Fox News but it is actual video that tells you a bit....Sen Obama tells a man who questions him that he wants "to spread the wealth around a bit"...listen and think about it.

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153

As a fellow poster told me recently....I don't look at anything from the Huffington post....

Just look around....in the past 3 weeks our government has become socialist. What do you think the bailout is? What do you think Social Security is? Medicare? Socialism is not a bad thing...actually its not bad but it doesn't work because of human nature.

[Guest]

Colo:

You have no idea what you're talking about. There isn't one country where Socialism has been successful. I don't know how much study of history you have done in your past, but you should really start studying.

Social Security, Medicare are entitlement programs. They were not meant to stay in place much after the Great Depression. But once you give the government more control of your life, they don't give it back. Social Security is a piggy bank and has been looted by the government over the years. I would rather have had the option of how I wanted to invest my future instead of having the government decide for me. Both SS and Medicare are actually bankrupt just like Fannie and Freddie which as you can see was perpetrated by Socialists operating in our government.

Never more have I become convinced than now that there should be term limits on anyone who holds a seat of power. We the people have lost control. The people's will is no longer done. Our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution so that we would not fall into this soft tyranny. The Constitution has been disregarded and our liberties and rights trampled by our lawmakers and Judges that judge according to their own political beliefs and not the rule of law.

I would love to teach a class to TOTVers interested in really understanding what the language being used to confuse people to think that Obama would be the right direction to go. I can understand wanting to distance from Bush. He actually is a liberal ecnomically. But change shouldn't be walking off the cliff. Really listen to the words Obama uses. He changes them every other day to see how they play. We have an ignorant electorate and that is a commodity we cannot afford.

[Guest]

Colo:

You have no idea what you're talking about. There isn't one country where Socialism has been successful. I don't know how much study of history you have done in your past, but you should really start studying.

Social Security, Medicare are entitlement programs. They were not meant to stay in place much after the Great Depression. But once you give the government more control of your life, they don't give it back. Social Security is a piggy bank and has been looted by the government over the years. I would rather have had the option of how I wanted to invest my future instead of having the government decide for me. Both SS and Medicare are actually bankrupt just like Fannie and Freddie which as you can see was perpetrated by Socialists operating in our government.

Never more have I become convinced than now that there should be term limits on anyone who holds a seat of power. We the people have lost control. The people's will is no longer done. Our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution so that we would not fall into this soft tyranny. The Constitution has been disregarded and our liberties and rights trampled by our lawmakers and Judges that judge according to their own political beliefs and not the rule of law.

I would love to teach a class to TOTVers interested in really understanding what the language being used to confuse people to think that Obama would be the right direction to go. I can understand wanting to distance from Bush. He actually is a liberal economically. But change shouldn't be walking off the cliff. Really listen to the words Obama uses. He changes them every other day to see how they play. We have an ignorant electorate and that is a commodity we cannot afford.

Please look closer at what I said....In theory Socialism is not a bad thing but it doesn't work because of human nature. In point of fact most European countries are, socialist...think France and Italy. So far those countries are going strong.

I don't believe for 1 second that Obama is a Socialist...and you don't think our economy has already gone over the cliff? On this we will have to agree to disagree..the trickle down economy and ownership society have been a failure.

Look at the deficits after Reagan and now after Bush that is all I need to see.

Remember Clinton left a surplus.

[Guest]

I don't believe for 1 second that Obama is a Socialist
__________________________________________________ ______

I am trying to think of a program he proposes that is not socialist, and I cannot think of any associate in his past dealings that were not considered RADICAL socialists.

Yes, since the primary on some issues he has gotten closer to the center but Cologal....his voting record, as meager as it is, and his associations and allies in the past are socialists !

[Guest]

Yeah Bucco. Exactly. Colo doesn't have a clue. She recites talking points rather than does the real research. Saying Europe is doing fine is laughable. Gives her naivette away.

So, bottom line, you cannot lead horse to water who does not want to drink. Yeah, that's an old one, but still fits.

Oh how about, can't teach old dog new tricks !!

Gotta keep your sense of humor or the blood pressure takes over. God Bless America.

[Guest]

Yeah Bucco. Exactly. Colo doesn't have a clue. She recites talking points rather than does the real research. Saying Europe is doing fine is laughable. Gives her naivette away.

So, bottom line, you cannot lead horse to water who does not want to drink. Yeah, that's an old one, but still fits.

Oh how about, can't teach old dog new tricks !!

Gotta keep your sense of humor or the blood pressure takes over. God Bless America.


I spent the better part of the day with some folks who because of the "status
" or the high level of this election decided to spend real time investigating what was going on. They began as "sort of" Obama supporters and now after actually shutting out the constant drone of Obama ads and the coverage on networks, and just simply reading, they tell me they are scared of this guy. This is only 5 people but they shut out the constant din of the drum beat coming from the left and made this decision which actually surprised me.

I had no input on this..they just decided to do this on their own as a group...3 are Democrats...2 are Republicans. I hope more people get educated and do it without the rapid fire stuff coming at us.

They used words a lot stronger than I and socialism was moderate in their descriptions !

Just file this under what it is worth. There is a reason for the Direct TV ad and the purchase of prime time by Sen Obama..right out of the book of radical socialism !!!

[Guest]

Cologirl..thanks for your insight, and sorry about the rudeness thrown your way..there was no excuse for it, and it was wrong anyway. To say you "have no idea what you are talking about" and that "you have no clue" is as short sighted and singleminded as it sounds.
You are correct in saying that the above programs you noted are "socialist" in nature. Additionally nationalizing the banking system is an example of "socialism" at its most basic definition.
Socialism is generally defined as "a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society", although this by no means a true comprehensive definition as there are several facets, levels if you will within the theories/beliefs about socialism.
It is clear to me that people from the time of pre-cold war and cold war eras may have a snap judgment and visceral reaction to the term socialism, perhaps unfairly painting others with a term without truly understanding it.
I do not want nor advocate a "socialist" society. I also don't think things are as black/white as they once were. A simple look at the examples listed above tells us we are not as free from the demons of "socialism" as we might like to believe.
Unfortunately people are tossing the term around in this election time as a tool of fear...accusing Obama of ideals and actions already happening NOW in a society that Republicans have dominated for some time now.
Anyone can (and will) twist things to make there point appear stronger. I am not satisfied with either candidate but have a hard time watching desparation tactics that are simply innacurate as they relate to either candidiate. The "spin" is a waste of time and intellect, and will likely appeal to only the least informed and most impressionable.
So Cologal, I appreciate your knowledgable input, whether or not I agree with it each time, and it is obvious that you do put that knowledge in your posts.

[Guest]

Geez, I hate to say that. I've lived my whole life believing that a free market, capitalistic economic system is best.

But I guess the events of the last few weeks prove that even a system as strong and desirable as capitalism is not capable of withstanding the incompetence of our governmment, the unbelievable greed of our business community, and the willingness of Americans to ignore what was going on even though cursory attentiveness would show that the financial crisis we find ourselves in was completely predictable and avoidable.

Now our government continues to prove to be so disfunctional that the socialist countries have had to bail us out. We've been socialized whether we like it or not. And it'll be awhile before we can claw our way back to a capitalistic free market system. But if we don't begin to pay attention and demand responsible governance by those we elect and send to Washington, we may never get back to a pure free market system.

We don't have to wait and wonder whether Barack Obama will lead us toward socialism. George Bush has already done it.

[Guest]

Geez, I hate to say that. I've lived my whole life believing that a free market, capitalistic economic system is best.

But I guess the events of the last few weeks prove that even a system as strong and desirable as capitalism is not capable of withstanding the incompetence of our governmment, the unbelievable greed of our business community, and the willingness of Americans to ignore what was going on even though cursory attentiveness would show that the financial crisis we find ourselves in was completely predictable and avoidable.

Now our government continues to prove to be so disfunctional that the socialist countries have had to bail us out. We've been socialized whether we like it or not. And it'll be awhile before we can claw our way back to a capitalistic free market system. But if we don't begin to pay attention and demand responsible governance by those we elect and send to Washington, we may never get back to a pure free market system.

We don't have to wait and wonder whether Barack Obama will lead us toward socialism. George Bush has already done it.

I am going to keep this short and sweet. I, as a vet and proud american will NEVER EVER ACCEPT SOCIALISM AS A SUB FOR A FREE MARKET CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY AS WE HAVE.

The politicians and NOT THE SYSTEM is the problem, and we are being played so beautifully as predicted many years ago and most recently by the terrorist groups....destroy us from within and we just lay down and take it.

George Bush has allowed a complete socialist organization to take over the country and for that I will never forgive him, as in my opinion, the only reason that Sen Obama even won the nomination was displeasure with the current administration.

[Guest]

Perhaps Obama won the nomination because people found things they liked and respected about him, much as they do for any other candidate.

The system is not the problem, the ploiticians are?? LOLOLOL
So Iran is not the problem, the people are?

Our "system " is so incestuously linked to the "politicians" that are involved in it I find it laughable to separate the two, they are in fact one...always have been.

"will NEVER EVER ACCEPT SOCIALISM AS A SUB FOR A FREE MARKET CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY AS WE HAVE."??????????? These lables dont fit anymore! Lets move foward in an honest no BS fashion.


Times change, systems evolve, terminology that refers to them changes. There are NO absolutes, no unchanging constants as much as we might like to wish sometimes.

We are where we are as a society right at this moment and all the kicking, screaming, and twisting of the facts or longing for times past wont change that. We have to be honest..without rhetoric (wow...theres a concept) about exactly what we have, how we are going to deal with it, and listen to what the majority wants...all while still voicing intelligent and informed opinion to help us get where we need to be. Painting people with old worn out brushes in ill informed ways benefits no one in the end.

[Guest]

Talking to yourself now colongal?


How utterly bizzare:ohdear::a20:

[Guest]

I agree with you Bucco. I, like your 5 friends started out semi in Obama's camp; but mostly just fed up with both parties...and certainly not impressed with their presidential offerings.
Unsure of who to vote for, I started reading and researching also. I tried, I really tried to believe in him, but I just can't get passed the fact that Obama appears to be a puppet for a puppet master that is hidden behind the curtain. Too scary for me.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Just Susan;169417]I agree with you Bucco. I, like your 5 friends started out semi in Obama's camp; but mostly just fed up with both parties...and certainly not impressed with their presidential offerings.
Unsure of who to vote for, I started reading and researching also. I tried, I really tried to believe in him, but I just can't get passed the fact that Obama appears to be a puppet for a puppet master that is hidden behind the curtain. Too scary for me.[/QUOT


Who is the puppet master hidden behind the curtain?

[Guest]

George Soros and Karl Marx?

[Guest]

George Soros and Karl Marx?


The question was legitimate, answer was freakin hilarious. Again, words mean things though, and accusing one of being a puppet with an entity behind them being a puppeteer should be able to be backed up with a legitimate answer. Inflamatory and baseless accusations are the lowest form of what this process has degenerated to...fear induced casting of aspersions.

[Guest]

Honestly Serenity I don't know...that is why it is so scary to me...if you read carefully I said he appears to be a puppet. I did not say he was one. I can't prove that and neither can anyone else one way or the other. We all know what they want us to know and that is all..period.

I have seen no substance to him. I have only seen him parrot his prewritten opinions and or agree with his opponent or avoid the question when he doesn't. I think he is an excellent orator. I would vote for him if I could believe he is his own man. I can't.

Also please know. This forum is not my thing. I don't have thick enough skin to play in here. I saw this post and curious, I read it and agreed.

I personally don't care one iota if any of you agree with me at all. I don't mean that in a mean way, I just really don't care. So I am not trying to influence you in any way by casting aspersions on Obama, and I won't defend my opinion any further.

I think he is really scary.

[Guest]

Honestly Serenity I don't know...that is why it is so scary to me...if you read carefully I said he appears to be a puppet. I did not say he was one. I can't prove that and neither can anyone else one way or the other. We all know what they want us to know and that is all..period.

I have seen no substance to him. I have only seen him parrot his prewritten opinions and or agree with his opponent or avoid the question when he doesn't. I think he is an excellent orator. I would vote for him if I could believe he is his own man. I can't.

Also please know. This forum is not my thing. I don't have thick enough skin to play in here. I saw this post and curious, I read it and agreed.

I personally don't care one iota if any of you agree with me at all. I don't mean that in a mean way, I just really don't care. So I am not trying to influence you in any way by casting aspersions on Obama, and I won't defend my opinion any further.

I think he is really scary.

I guess my point would be there is no more substance in the post associating him with being a puppet than there is in the statement "I have seen no substance to him. I have only seen him parrot his prewritten opinions and or agree with his opponent or avoid the question when he doesn't. I think he is an excellent orator. I would vote for him if I could believe he is his own man. I can't.". There are plenty of opinions out there, I just can't for the life of me see how all of the name calling and aspersions are productive. We are all certainly entitled to an opinion I just have a hard time seeing it degenerate into essentially name calling and accusations(not refering specificaly to the above post BTW) based on propaganda and spin.
If someone appears to be controlled by a puppeteer the logical question would be who does the puppet master appear to be. It simply behooves us to try to look beyond fear and emotion to substance and facts.

I honestly and in a non-malignant way also could care less if you agree with me...it holds no importance. And intelligent exchange of ideas based in fact does.

[Guest]

Talking to yourself now colongal?

You are totally rude...The first time you used this name I thought perhaps it could have been a typo...but now you did it again.

No one on this post deserves this kind of ridicule.

[Guest]

You are totally rude...The first time you used this name I thought perhaps it could have been a typo...but now you did it again.

No one on this post deserves this kind of ridicule.

Cologal, you have to learn to ignore Osh. Most others have. :laugh:

[Guest]

Cologal, you have to learn to ignore Osh. Most others have. :laugh:



Actually Colo....I can't imagine she means that intentionally....do you know how many times I have done to type in your "name" and messed it up....and others for that matter....remember I didn't even know what it stood for....



Thankfully I understand it now...Colorado Girl...and it is just easier to write Colo.....stop after the 2nd O Osh....it would make it easier....

COLO....Osh is a good person....and has valid points and well written opinions....she just happens to disagree with us.

sometimes I wish I was on her side....there are some people I agree with totally and would rather not because of the way it is written....

I actually think that you both (Osh and Colo) would get along just fine....in the real world....agree to disagree on politics....but other than that....would get a long....you are both clear minded and well thought out with your opinions!!!

[Guest]

Watching 60 minutes............The overall reason for where we are? Deregulation. Culprits.......Phil Gram & Alan Greenspan both Republicans. Phil Gram would have a lot of power under a McCain administration......More bad judgment! Current Socialization of financial system is the fault of the Republicans. The Republicans do want to do away with Social Security & Medicare. They do say they would be open to privatizing Social Security and Medicare with Haliburton being the automatic winner of the no bid contract. If Social Security and Medicare are eliminated that will be the end of the Villages! We cannot stay the course! Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results is called insanity!

[Guest]

Watching 60 minutes............The overall reason for where we are? Deregulation. Culprits.......Phil Gram & Alan Greenspan both Republicans............

Darn it.

I intended to watch "60 Minutes" and totally forgot. I knew this was going to be their topic tonight. I need to find out if they run the show online. I hope so.

I have been hacked off at Greenspan for years.

Sometimes you just do not need a bloomin' genius like Greenspan. Sometimes you just need somebody with some common sense. Greenspan looked to me like he was operating outside the realm of reality for quite awhile. I don't recall ever hearing him call the real estate market "irrational exuberance."

How could Greenspan not know??????

I did not want to be right.

Boomer

[Guest]

Wouldn't it be great if cologal had been around when Joe McCarthy was chairing his committee? They deserve each other.

[Guest]

Wouldn't it be great if cologal had been around when Joe McCarthy was chairing his committee? They deserve each other.


Tell me what in the world did I do to you? It really isn't nice to make nasty at another Irishmen. My grandmother watched those hearings and told me all about it.