Seeking advice about a new bowling ball

[Rebel Pirate]

I’ve always been a “garden variety” bowler and have bowled once every 1-2 decades whether I need to or not - never had bowling ball or shoes before. I’m now retired and have joined a league, so I bought the shoes and ball from a local, unnamed sporting goods retailer. The sales associate (former PBA tour pro and champion) measured me for a proper fit. I was completely up-front about never having had a ball before and having to rely completely on him for proper fit. I picked up the ball yesterday from a different sales associate at the store. (The associate who measured me was not at the store yesterday.)

The thumb hole is larger/looser than some of the house balls I’ve used recently that fit better. After he observed me with the ball, yesterday’s sales associate re-measured my thumb. Based on his work, I said “It looks like you would have measured me two sizes smaller.” He said “at least.” He also said he would have specified some pitch for the thumb hole; as drilled the thumb hole and finger holes are parallel with no pitch. (This is all new terminology for me.)

He proceeded to put about six strips of bowlers tape in the thumb hole and recommended that I bowl several games before league play and then one week of league play, to “try it out” then come in and they would probably plug the thumb hole (not sure if that was the term he used) and refit. My personal bowling adviser (experienced but not a pro) said “take it back now, don’t use it, tell them you want a new ball or a refund.” So, I now seek advice from the most experienced bowlers in our TOTV community – no doubt that are some former pros out there who can put this in proper perspective for me.

1. Is it somewhat “normal” for a new ball to be imprecisely measured/drilled such that it needs to be plugged/refit/adjusted? Should I just accept their adjustments? Or are they just trying to avoid the expense of “doing right” by a new/inexperienced bowler?

2. Should I return the ball and with good conscience expect either a new ball or refund?

When replying, please indicate your level of bowling expertise/experience. I will value the advice of a highly experienced pro more than that of another garden variety bowler who is also an expert shopper. Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions/advice!

** Rebel **

[tomwed]

might help
Bowling Ball Thumb Pitch Is Important (http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/bowling-ball-thumb-pitch-is-important)

[villagetinker]

OP, no idea where you went, but I do not believe this is the normal case. I went to RSW, 114 W Guava St, Lady Lake, FL 32159 (352) 674-9361, and purchased a new ball with a completely new grip. Rob did an excellent job. I had a removeable thumb hole installed, the original was a little small, so I purchased the next size larger. Rob did several measurements, and made sure the ball was correct before I left, the reason for the larger thumb hole was my thumb tends to swell a little when bowling.
Hope this helps.

[Rebel Pirate]

Thanks, Tinker,

I'm new enough I've never heard of a removable thumb hole (rth). Is it better to have a rth than to expect them to get the measurement correct and use the ball without a rth? In your experience would someone properly fitting a new ball be concerned with pitch and trying to get it right? Or is pitch something that can be adjusted after the fact with a rth? Does a rth make the ball appear patched?

I'd like to be reasonable with a new purchase like this, but I kinda feel like I'm receiving inferior service that can't be corrected properly and they want to gloss over it.

Thanks for the reply!

** Rebel **

[bagboy]

Thumb pitch is the angle that the thumb hole was drilled. Forward towards the palm helps with hanging onto the ball and is usually used with conventional grips. Reverse pitch away from the palm helps with releasing the ball at the right time and is usually used in finger tip drilling. Left or right pitch, called under and away from the palm is usually determined by the ball fitter when measuring and should be determined by which was your thumb "wants to" go into the hole smoothly. More to follow...

[bob&Gail]

I am not a pro but a good 200 bowler. I would have gone to the pro shop at the lanes. They would watch your delivery and determine if you need side weight. For hook and drive or your just throwing a straight ball. The removable thumb is a large thumb hole in which different thumb grips are inserted and locked in place. As your thumb swells you can change the size of your thumb hole

[bagboy]

The norm is for a fitter/driller to start with smaller thumb holes, then make the adjustment when the bowler picks it up. That holds true for finger holes and grips also. In your case, it appears that a mistake was made, most likely during the drilling process. BUT, it can be easily rectified. The thumb hole can be plugged and redrilled smaller, a thumb sleeve can be inserted and a new, smaller hole can be drilled. And as mentioned before, there are new thumb sleeves in use now that once fitted properly, can be screwed in and out, and used in more than one bowling ball.
Usually when buying a ball, a customer doesn't want his/her brand new ball plugged. I get that. If that's you, just ask for a thumb sleeve, permanent or removeable. This should be at no cost to you. The bottom line is, you ultimately want the proper fit. So do what it takes, work with the shop staff, and get it right.

[villagetinker]

OP, I see others answered your questions before I could. Hope you get your ball fixed.

[johnnyb]

i would get my money back from this place and do business with RSW.
Rob will work with you to get a perfect fit

[villagetinker]

Rob is great, and even if you cannot get your money back, I am sure he will work with you to get the ball and fit right.

[tomwed]

I haven't bowled in TV. My ball and bag, in the garage is the one my dad bought me when I was 13. The whole family bowled in leagues back then. Where should I go to have it re drilled, assuming it's still round.

[tag460]

Take the ball back and work with the original person to make the correction the fit is very important. I had to do the same with Rob at RSW to redo my thumb because the fit was not correct. Yes you ball may need to be plugged and re drilled.

[villagetinker]

I haven't bowled in TV. My ball and bag, in the garage is the one my dad bought me when I was 13. The whole family bowled in leagues back then. Where should I go to have it re drilled, assuming it's still round.

Tom,
Retire the old ball, I had my fathers old Manhattan Rubber ball, average 113, new ball, new grip, average almost 175. Seriously, the bowling technology has changed greatly over the last few decades. Your old ball will not work well on the new lanes and well oiled finishes.
IMHO, Go to Spanish Springs, ask for Jack Shmitt, a really great trainer, have him observe you throwing your old ball, get his opinion on what you need. The go to RSW Pro shop Guava Street (near 441 and 466), talk to Rob, and he will do a great job getting you a new ball.
Hope this helps, and hope to see you at bowling.

[tomwed]

Tom,
Retire the old ball, I had my fathers old Manhattan Rubber ball, average 113, new ball, new grip, average almost 175. Seriously, the bowling technology has changed greatly over the last few decades. Your old ball will not work well on the new lanes and well oiled finishes.
IMHO, Go to Spanish Springs, ask for Jack Shmitt, a really great trainer, have him observe you throwing your old ball, get his opinion on what you need. The go to RSW Pro shop Guava Street (near 441 and 466), talk to Rob, and he will do a great job getting you a new ball.
Hope this helps, and hope to see you at bowling.
What's the difference?
I'm a golfer and I could tell you the difference between the clubs in the 60's and the clubs now.
Tell me how the balls are different.

[villagetinker]

What's the difference?
I'm a golfer and I could tell you the difference between the clubs in the 60's and the clubs now.
Tell me how the balls are different.

The compounds the balls are made of are completely different. The design of the inner core is completely different. The balls are actually designed to have different tracks depending on the lane surface. I have seen bowlers come to the lanes with 4 or 5 balls, and change balls during play as the lanes change. Yes the lanes change as the oil pattern changes with the number of balls thrown. I use 2 balls, a ball with a compound and finish that tends to give me a mild hook when thrown, and a plastic finish balls that tends to go almost straight using the same grip and throw as my hook.
So, as you have seen lots of changes in the gold clubs over the years, the same has happened in the world of bowling.

[Polar Bear]

Biggest change I see is that the seats in the pit used to be for sitting. Now they're for storing all the bowlers' multiple balls. :)

[tomwed]

Thank-you for the advice
I'm going to stick to one old bag and ball and see how it goes. I'll check out Jack Schmidt. Is there any experts at AMF Leesburg that drills holes?

[bagboy]

Thank-you for the advice
I'm going to stick to one old bag and ball and see how it goes. I'll check out Jack Schmidt. Is there any experts at AMF Leesburg that drills holes?

LOL, don't do it!!! Use that old ball I mean. I'm positive it is an old rubber ball, most likely out of round and it will Definitely not fit your hand properly after all the years. I doubt seriously any pro shop would even plug and redrilled it. And bowling just a few games with an ill fitting ball could lead to hand injury or at the very least aggravate arthritis.
Seek the advice of a professional as to buying a new ball. Most likely a urethane ball would work for recreational bowling, and they are much less expensive that to new hi tech resin balls. I have heard of Jack Schmidt, but I have no personal knowledge as to how good he is. It probably wouldn't cost you much to find out.

[tomwed]

I doubt seriously any pro shop would even plug and redrilled it. And bowling just a few games with an ill fitting ball could lead to hand injury or at the very least aggravate arthritis.

I'll stick with golf.

[bagboy]

I'll stick with golf.

You can't go wrong there...

[tomwed]

You can't go wrong there...
I did a little reading and a little filing and my bowling ball feels pretty comfortable. I did a little more reading and practicing on my footwork and it's all coming back to me.
Now I need to find out what I can use to clean and maybe polish or wax the ball. I'm left handed so it's not so easy to find a ball on the rack drilled for a lefty.

[villagetinker]

I did a little reading and a little filing and my bowling ball feels pretty comfortable. I did a little more reading and practicing on my footwork and it's all coming back to me.
Now I need to find out what I can use to clean and maybe polish or wax the ball. I'm left handed so it's not so easy to find a ball on the rack drilled for a lefty.

Tom,
Use a good household degreasing detergent (simply orange or similar) to remove old OIL. Dry. Then use denatured alcohol to further clean the surface. DO NOT WAX OR APPLY ANY OTHER MATERAIL TO THE BALL. If you must, use the ball conditioner at the alley. The ball is intended to be as clean as possible to work correctly with the alley. If you apply any other coating, other than a cleaner (Tac-up) you will interfere with the path the ball will take on its way to the pins.
Also, do not try to have polish the ball, you will ruin it. The above are a temporary 'fix'. Balls absorb oil from the lanes, and the only way to completely clean the ball is drop it off at a pro shop for a few days to have it cleaned and resurfaced.
If you would like to discuss more, drop me a PM and I will give you my phone number.

[tomwed]

Tom,
Use a good household degreasing detergent (simply orange or similar) to remove old OIL. Dry. Then use denatured alcohol to further clean the surface. DO NOT WAX OR APPLY ANY OTHER MATERAIL TO THE BALL. If you must, use the ball conditioner at the alley. The ball is intended to be as clean as possible to work correctly with the alley. If you apply any other coating, other than a cleaner (Tac-up) you will interfere with the path the ball will take on its way to the pins.
Also, do not try to have polish the ball, you will ruin it. The above are a temporary 'fix'. Balls absorb oil from the lanes, and the only way to completely clean the ball is drop it off at a pro shop for a few days to have it cleaned and resurfaced.
If you would like to discuss more, drop me a PM and I will give you my phone number.
thank-you
How about Goo Gone?

[bagboy]

Tomwed, let us know how it goes. VT gives good advice regarding cleaning a ball, but let's not forget it's a 50 plus year old rubber ball that will most likely slide on the newer lane surfaces of today, it won't grab the lane and react to the conditioning on the lane, and it will most likely go pretty straight down the lane. But, as long as it doesn't bother your hand, it probably doesn't matter much.

[hoseman]

Tomwed, let us know how it goes. VT gives good advice regarding cleaning a ball, but let's not forget it's a 50 plus year old rubber ball that will most likely slide on the newer lane surfaces of today, it won't grab the lane and react to the conditioning on the lane, and it will most likely go pretty straight down the lane. But, as long as it doesn't bother your hand, it probably doesn't matter much.

"Newer lane surfaces"...different kind of oil or what?

[tomwed]

My friend at work had the right idea when it comes to bowling or golf. He used to say "if I can break a hundred in either game, I'm happy".

[villagetinker]

All, there is actually a list of approved cleaning agents on the USBC website: BOWL.com | Home (http://www.bowl.com/)
Goo Gone is NOT on the list, and is actually a lubricant, and will ruin the ball surface until it is removed.
Also, the lanes were at one time wood, they are now almost all synthetic and react much more differently then wood lanes. Also, the approaches now tend to be synthetic, and actually RESIST sliding. I was found some time ago that you can get more power (aka speed) to the ball if you do not slide.
Hope this helps.

[bagboy]

"Newer lane surfaces"...different kind of oil or what?

The surface is synthetic, unlike the wood lanes that we grew up bowling on. Though we used rubber and plastic bowling balls back then, a bowler could get the ball to hook for a number of reasons. A couple of those being less oil to the outside of the lane, or a deep track worn into a certain area of the lane that most people used. Those areas provided friction for the ball to "grab ahold of" thus creating a hook of some sort.
The newer synthetic lanes by nature do not allow for a high degree of friction, unless there is a very minimal amount of oil applied to the lane. The newer bowling balls today are resin or composite resin based, with either a symmetric or asemetric weight block. Under a microscope, the surface would be very porous, thus creating friction and a hook to some extent.
The old rubber ball that Tomwed has does not have a porous surface. Matching a non porous surface to a synthetic lane surface with a decent amount of oil, that is a recipe for a straight ball and not a whole lot of fun.

[tomwed]

that is a recipe for a straight ball and not a whole lot of fun.
I would probably have more fun with a ball that breaks. But unless I get hooked I don't see myself going very often. It's just a neighborhood someone is putting together.

[bagboy]

I would probably have more fun with a ball that breaks. But unless I get hooked I don't see myself going very often. It's just a neighborhood someone is putting together.

Bowling equipment, like golf equipment can get expensive. If your neighbors do get you hooked, buy a used "resin" ball and have it redrilled.

[villagetinker]

I agree with bagboy, at Spanish springs, there are almost always "free" balls sitting by the resurfacing machine, however a word of caution, unless you are an expert, you have no idea what you are getting. RSW Pro shop (on Guava street, near 441 and 466) typically has a good selection of used balls, and a ball and redrilling is less then $50 if I remember correctly. I picked up a second 'plastic' ball (which tends to go straight) so I could hit the 10 pin. Shoes are around $50, same location.
So for around $100 you would be good to go. If you get more involved, you can get a bag, and some other accessories (ball cleaner, hand grip wrist straps, etc.).
Hope this helps, and hope to see you on the lanes some time.

[tomwed]

Well my dad bought me my bowling ball from the Sears outlet 50 years ago and he drilled it too. I know it's modern because he drilled 3 holes instead of 2.