Share the Road

[Bosoxfan]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Sure wish all would comply.I only ride late at night or well before traffic hits the roads in the morning. Sad to think that riding in the dark is the only time I feel safe!!!

[Sandtrap328]

The only problem I have with bicyclers is when a large group of them blows right through stop signs. Yes, they may slow down BUT the sign says STOP.

Yes, i realize that it is extra trouble to come to a full stop and unhook feet from pedals BUT they ride on the public roads - follow the same laws as cars. :thumbup:

[Miles42]

I share the road but would also like it if bike riders obeyed all traffic laws.

[Taltarzac725]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Sure wish all would comply.I only ride late at night or well before traffic hits the roads in the morning. Sad to think that riding in the dark is the only time I feel safe!!!

Thanks for posting that.

[rubicon]

Your reference and the information provided from the Bicycle Association is helpful. I believe a majority of auto drivers comply for a variety of reasons.
However as other posters indicate bike riders do violate every rule of the road and intentionally most of the time, not unlike motorcycles that intentionally weave in and out of traffic.

I believe you are also aware that bicycle riders are viewed broadly as an inconvenience in many cities across the country; especially in heavy traffic routes. So, and Ï say this with no malice, count your blessings when a driver tips his/her hat to you.

Personal Best Regards

[alzjr]

a majority of auto drivers comply ---- Wrong

bike riders do violate every rule of the road and intentionally most of the time ------ Wrong

[Arctic Fox]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Useful information, Bosoxfan - thank you for posting it.

We should all consider others from their point of view - how would we like people to treat us if we were out there walking/cycling/driving?

[dave harris]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Sure wish all would comply.I only ride late at night or well before traffic hits the roads in the morning. Sad to think that riding in the dark is the only time I feel safe!!!

Why don't you ride the cart paths or is that below you?

[rubicon]

a majority of auto drivers comply ---- Wrong

bike riders do violate every rule of the road and intentionally most of the time ------ Wrong

alzjr Fair enough. You must be a bicylist I am not. My statement was not made in absolutes nor was I taking aim at bicyclist. They exist, I accept it and I share the road

However this topic is so widely discussed that it gained entry into an article published in a respected newspaper some time ago whose main focus were on bike messengers in New York City but ventured into common discussion about drivers thoughts about bicyclist.

I would love to have posters sound off about how many times they actually saw a serious bike rider stop at an intersection, stop sign etc. because I never have. Bicyclist especially in groups/clubs do not want to lose momentum much like a jogger does not want to stop jogging even if they remain in place continuing in their perpetual motion. Again I did say every bicyclist nor am I unaware that some auto drivers ignore the rules of the road also.

Personal Best Regards:

[Bosoxfan]

Why don't you ride the cart paths or is that below you?

No its not below me to ride on the ( " cart" ) multimodal path if I were on a casual ride but not if I want to move at a cardiovascular workout pace. There are more problems on the paths then you'd realize. Cyclists have the right to be on the roads I just wish ALL motorists would accept this and respect the safety of everyone on the road.

[golfing eagles]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Sure wish all would comply.I only ride late at night or well before traffic hits the roads in the morning. Sad to think that riding in the dark is the only time I feel safe!!!

No its not below me to ride on the ( " cart" ) multimodal path if I were on a casual ride but not if I want to move at a cardiovascular workout pace. There are more problems on the paths then you'd realize. Cyclists have the right to be on the roads I just wish ALL motorists would accept this and respect the safety of everyone on the road.

This isn't the first thread along these lines, so at risk of incurring the ire of cyclists, let's bring some clarity to this thread:

First of all, bicycles are vehicles and have the right to use the roads, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW. I'm all in favor of safety, cyclists are much more at risk for injury than a car. However, in the spirit of sharing the road, there are RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with cyclists RIGHTS.

The link provided is to a cyclist association page, the "information" is NOT THE LAW, it is the author's OPINION and INTERPETATION of the law. So lets look at the actual Florida law:

316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The law is vague, it does not give a specific lane width or separation of motor vehicle and cycle. This is likely because the distance is relative to speed. The author in the link has interpreted subsection 3 to mean bicycles can ride in the middle of the road at any speed any time they want and "own the lane". This is NOT what the law states. The bicycle association itself advocates a minimum distance of 3 feet. The lanes on BV and Morse, at least south of 466A are 12-14 feet. My full size SUV is 6 feet wide, so hugging the center line, it allows 6-8 feet for the cyclist. Therefore, UNDER THE LAW, the cyclist has NO RIGHT to ride in the middle of the road at less than the speed of traffic, except as noted in subsection 1&2. It does not matter what the bicycle association has to say, only what THE LAW states. If you are riding in the middle at 35 mph, go for it. There is no reason for anyone to pass you. But if you are riding at 15 mph, you are IN VIOLATION of the law and can be cited.

Also:

(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

How many times do we come up on 3-4-5 cycles abreast in the middle of the lane so they can chit-chat?? They are also VIOLATING THE LAW. I also agree with Rubi---there are some (not all) cyclists who are loathe to stop at stop signs or lights because of the inconvenience of toe clips. Here's news--it is also "inconvenient" to stop a car as well, but it is THE LAW.

All that being said, motorists need to realize they are much safer than cyclists and act accordingly. But that does not excuse cyclists from taking over a lane when the LAW clearly forbids it.

Now I'll retreat to the bomb shelter.

[biker1]

The law states bikes must be given 3 feet of clearance in FL, along with I believe 25 other states. Also, the lanes of BV are substandard with regard to width (along with virtually all of the roads in The Villages), therefore a car and a bike cannot occupy the same lane. This means that bikes can occupy an entire lane on the roads in The Villages. This has been discussed numerous times before.




This isn't the first thread along these lines, so at risk of incurring the ire of cyclists, let's bring some clarity to this thread:

First of all, bicycles are vehicles and have the right to use the roads, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW. I'm all in favor of safety, cyclists are much more at risk for injury than a car. However, in the spirit of sharing the road, there are RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with cyclists RIGHTS.

The link provided is to a cyclist association page, the "information" is NOT THE LAW, it is the author's OPINION and INTERPETATION of the law. So lets look at the actual Florida law:

316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The law is vague, it does not give a specific lane width or separation of motor vehicle and cycle. This is likely because the distance is relative to speed. The author in the link has interpreted subsection 3 to mean bicycles can ride in the middle of the road at any speed any time they want and "own the lane". This is NOT what the law states. The bicycle association itself advocates a minimum distance of 3 feet. The lanes on BV and Morse, at least south of 466A are 12-14 feet. My full size SUV is 6 feet wide, so hugging the center line, it allows 6-8 feet for the cyclist. Therefore, UNDER THE LAW, the cyclist has NO RIGHT to ride in the middle of the road at less than the speed of traffic, except as noted in subsection 1&2. It does not matter what the bicycle association has to say, only what THE LAW states. If you are riding in the middle at 35 mph, go for it. There is no reason for anyone to pass you. But if you are riding at 15 mph, you are IN VIOLATION of the law and can be cited.

Also:

(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

How many times do we come up on 3-4-5 cycles abreast in the middle of the lane so they can chit-chat?? They are also VIOLATING THE LAW. I also agree with Rubi---there are some (not all) cyclists who are loathe to stop at stop signs or lights because of the inconvenience of toe clips. Here's news--it is also "inconvenient" to stop a car as well, but it is THE LAW.

All that being said, motorists need to realize they are much safer than cyclists and act accordingly. But that does not excuse cyclists from taking over a lane when the LAW clearly forbids it.

Now I'll retreat to the bomb shelter.

[outlaw]

Info for Motorists | Florida Bicycle Association (http://floridabicycle.org/for-motorists/)

Sure wish all would comply.I only ride late at night or well before traffic hits the roads in the morning. Sad to think that riding in the dark is the only time I feel safe!!!

A bit of biased misinformation. In FL, I think the laws state that a cyclist is required to ride as far to the right of the lane as safely as possible. It does not say that the cyclist is supposed to force passing autos into the other lane by riding near the center line. If you want courtesy from drivers, be a courteous rider.

A cyclist with common sense.

[outlaw]

Why don't you ride the cart paths or is that below you?

I do ride the cart paths, but that is pretty dangerous too. However, I would much rather tangle with a golf cart than a cement truck. Just sayin'.

[biker1]

Wrong again, as you were the last time you tried posting this misinformation. On substandard width roads, as we have in The Villages, cars must pass in the other lane as a car and bike cannot lawfully exist in the same lane. Cyclist should move to the center of the lane during those instances where a car may squeeze them off the road. This is the safe way to ride.

A bit of biased misinformation. In FL, I think the laws state that a cyclist is required to ride as far to the right of the lane as safely as possible. It does not say that the cyclist is supposed to force passing autos into the other lane by riding near the center line. If you want courtesy from drivers, be a courteous rider.

A cyclist with common sense.

[tomwed]

A bit of biased misinformation. In FL, I think the laws state that a cyclist is required to ride as far to the right of the lane as safely as possible. It does not say that the cyclist is supposed to force passing autos into the other lane by riding near the center line. If you want courtesy from drivers, be a courteous rider.

A cyclist with common sense.
s. 316.083 – Overtaking and Passing A Vehicle

(1) …. The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle.


s. 316.2065 – Bicycle Regulations

(5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The unsafe condition of substandard-width lanes is that drivers may unlawfully and dangerously attempt to pass within the lane or use the adjacent lane when there is conflicting traffic. Although that practice subjects the overtaking motorist and the on-coming motorist to some danger, the bicyclist is the one most likely to suffer harm in those circumstances.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

[outlaw]

No its not below me to ride on the ( " cart" ) multimodal path if I were on a casual ride but not if I want to move at a cardiovascular workout pace. There are more problems on the paths then you'd realize. Cyclists have the right to be on the roads I just wish ALL motorists would accept this and respect the safety of everyone on the road.

Cyclists have a right to be on the road, but they also have the requirement to ride safely as far to the right as possible. You do not have the authority to enforce traffic laws. That's what the police are for. Instead of forcing drivers into another lane, record the offending car's license number and report it to the authorities. Now, from a practical standpoint, you are NEVER going to convince a significant portion of the driving population that you have as much right to the whole lane as they do. It ain't gonna happen. How long have cyclists been beating this drum? It seems like forever. So you can keep trying to dangerously enforce your interpretation of the laws, possibly/probably resulting in a competition of wills between two stubborn users of the road that may end with tragedy for both, but especially for you. Or you can accept that roads were built and primarily paid for by drivers, and learn to not only share the road, but try to defer to the driver and win them over one at a time. When I ride on the road (seldom), I try to accommodate drivers. For instance, when riding on a side street in TV, and I am riding abreast with someone else, I ALWAYS convert to riding single file as far to the right as safely as possible, giving the driver almost two lanes to pass. What I find is 95% of the time, the driver goes all the way over almost completely into the other lane to pass me. And probably 100% of the time the driver gives me ample room, even though still partially in my lane. You are not helping the cycling community by insisting on drivers complying with your interpretation of sharing the road. You only hurt the cyclists that are willing to accommodate drivers, since it is obvious the roads were designed and built for autos, not bicycles. Drivers you p!ss off, then resent ALL cyclists.

[outlaw]

s. 316.083 – Overtaking and Passing A Vehicle

(1) …. The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle.


s. 316.2065 – Bicycle Regulations

(5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The unsafe condition of substandard-width lanes is that drivers may unlawfully and dangerously attempt to pass within the lane or use the adjacent lane when there is conflicting traffic. Although that practice subjects the overtaking motorist and the on-coming motorist to some danger, the bicyclist is the one most likely to suffer harm in those circumstances.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

I went to the statute and did not see this (bolded and underlined). Looks like "interpretation" of the statute.

I did see this, pasted with NO added interpretation: (6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

[Polar Bear]

In my opinion as a lifelong Professional Engineer in the transportation field, bicyclists (and I am one) should not be on roads with automotive travel speeds (not speed limits) averaging in excess of 30-35 mph. Irrespective of the law...there is simply no way to make it safe for all concerned. Again...just my opinion.

[outlaw]

Wrong again, as you were the last time you tried posting this misinformation. On substandard width roads, as we have in The Villages, cars must pass in the other lane as a car and bike cannot lawfully exist in the same lane. Cyclist should move to the center of the lane during those instances where a car may squeeze them off the road. This is the safe way to ride.

Please educate me by pasting those sentences where they appear in the Florida statute? Thanks in advance.

[outlaw]

It's a bit of a stretch to think of Buena Vista Blvd as a substandard road. It has to be in the top 5% of Florida roads regarding condition, width (excluding interstates), and beauty.

[Miles42]

Right or wrong if you tangle with an automobile or a truck you lose. It is just that simple. Accidents occur on roadways all the time. One is at fault the other may not be. Being not at fault but Severely injured or dead does not mean a lot. except in a court of law.

[golfing eagles]

I went to the statute and did not see this (bolded and underlined). Looks like "interpretation" of the statute.

I did see this, pasted with NO added interpretation: (6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

Well, it is section 5, right above section 6 that you are citing:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.2065.html)

[tomwed]

It's a bit of a stretch to think of Buena Vista Blvd as a substandard road. It has to be in the top 5% of Florida roads regarding condition, width (excluding interstates), and beauty.
It's the width of a single on BV that is in question, not the surface.

[golfing eagles]

s. 316.083 – Overtaking and Passing A Vehicle

(1) …. The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle.


s. 316.2065 – Bicycle Regulations

(5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

Please read the statute again. THEY ARE REQUIRED to keep right except under the three conditions in a,b and c. The debate is going to be what is a substandard lane width. Federal Highway Department states the "standard width" of a local/county road is 9-12 feet. I doubt BV or Morse is "substandard" by the federal definition. Personally, I think a 9 foot lane would be cutting it too close, but , as stated above, a 12 foot wide lane leaves 6 feet for the cyclist and therefore, on such a road THE LAW REQUIRES THAT THEY KEEP TO THE RIGHT. PERIOD. Now, for those who have stated these boulevards are "substandard, do you know the width of the lane? I'd rather not go out and play in traffic with a tape measure (although I think some cyclists would like me too:1rotfl:) After all, I've confused the partisan opinions with FACT.

[tomwed]

Department states the "standard width" of a local/county road is 9-12 feet.
Where did you find that fact [Question Mark]
If only there was a golfer on this thread who knows how to pace off 5 yards.

[golfing eagles]

Where did you find that fact [Question Mark]

Mitigation Strategies For Design Exceptions - Safety | Federal Highway Administration (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/geometric/pubs/mitigationstrategies/chapter3/3_lanewidth.cfm)

[karostay]

I share the road but would also like it if bike riders obeyed all traffic laws.

:BigApplause::highfive::BigApplause:

[tomwed]

Mitigation Strategies For Design Exceptions - Safety | Federal Highway Administration (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/geometric/pubs/mitigationstrategies/chapter3/3_lanewidth.cfm)
well done

12 ft makes a road

Would you agree that the width of a car or minivan with mirrors is 90 inches

Would you agree that the law indicates you need to give a bike 3 ft to pass?

36+90=126 10 1/2 ft

You bike. How far is your front wheel to the curb? 1 1/2 ft?

Oh sh.., That's 12 ft. [i'll go away now,,,]

[golfing eagles]

well done

12 ft makes a road

Would you agree that the width of a car or minivan with mirrors is 90 inches

Would you agree that the law indicates you need to give a bike 3 ft to pass?

36+90=126 10 1/2 ft

You bike. How far is your front wheel to the curb? 1 1/2 ft?

Oh sh.., That's 12 ft. [i'll go away now,,,]

Agree with width of SUV----my Enclave is 89 inches edge of mirror to edge of mirror

Agree with 3 feet to pass

agree 36 + 90 =126 or 10 1/2 feet

but 10 1/2 + 1 1/2 is 12 except in common core math

But we still need to know the actual width of the lanes on BV and Morse

[tomwed]

Agree with width of SUV----my Enclave is 89 inches edge of mirror to edge of mirror

Agree with 3 feet to pass

agree 36 + 90 =126 or 10 1/2 feet

but 10 1/2 + 1 1/2 is 12 except in common core math

But we still need to know the actual width of the lanes on BV and Morse
I went to Eisenhower, parked and paced BV. The both lanes together including the stripe in the middle is 20 ft.
Won't anyone else like to measure it?

[alzjr]

The lanes have been measured and they are only 11 feet wide. Not enough room for a car and bicycle at the same time

[golfing eagles]

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

[KeepingItReal]

a majority of auto drivers comply ---- Wrong

bike riders do violate every rule of the road and intentionally most of the time ------ Wrong

Prove it if it's wrong, saying it does not make it so, bike riders especially older ones wobble all over the place and it's hard to miss a moving target. They don't even stop coming out of tunnels, have had 2 near misses and both because the bicycle did not stop for a posted stop sign where they were coming out of a tunnel.

[perrjojo]

As a former cyclist I can tell you why they often don't stop at traffic lights and stop signs. It's for the same reason that many in golf carts don't stop. When approaching an intersection at a low rate of speed you can easily see if there is traffic coming. Yes, I know the law says stop but......well, there you go.

Maybe instead of share the road a sign should say...Be Kind to your neighbors. Didn't your Mother teach you that sharing is the right thing to do?

[biker1]

Like clockwork, this issue keeps reappearing every couple of month. Thanks for your post.

The lanes have been measured and they are only 11 feet wide. Not enough room for a car and bicycle at the same time

[biker1]

Look people, this is not that difficult. Most serious riders are about 1-2 feet inside the white line on the side of the road. You can't hug the extreme right side of the lane because it is dangerous to be there. The roads in the The Villages are not wide enough for a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance. This requires cars to pass in the other lane as a car and a bike cannot coexist in the sub-standard width lanes with the required 3 feet of clearance. Again, most cyclist are in the right third of the lane but cars need to move into the other lane to pass in a safe, lawful manner. You will often see cyclist move from the right most third of the lane to the center of the lanes. This is for safety reasons. This will often occur near the roundabouts and on two lane road on a curve with a double solid line. Again, this is for safely reasons. This is not rocket science. Give cyclists a wide birth and pass in a lawful manner (move to the left lane).

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

[golfing eagles]

Look people, this is not that difficult. Most serious riders are about 1-2 feet inside the white line on the side of the road. You can't hug the extreme right side of the lane because it is dangerous to be there. The roads in the The Villages are not wide enough for a car, a bike, and the required 3 feet of clearance. This requires cars to pass in the other lane as a car and a bike cannot coexist in the sub-standard width lanes with the required 3 feet of clearance. Again, most cyclist are in the right third of the lane but cars need to move into the other lane to pass in a safe, lawful manner. You will often see cyclist move from the right most third of the lane to the center of the lanes. This is for safety reasons. This will often occur near the roundabouts and on two lane road on a curve with a double solid line. Again, this is for safely reasons. This is not rocket science. Give cyclists a wide birth and pass in a lawful manner (move to the left lane).

and given what I just posted, you are 100% right. So all motorists, please watch out for you neighbor

[Bosoxfan]

A bit of biased misinformation. In FL, I think the laws state that a cyclist is required to ride as far to the right of the lane as safely as possible. It does not say that the cyclist is supposed to force passing autos into the other lane by riding near the center line. If you want courtesy from drivers, be a courteous rider.

A cyclist with common sense.

I've tried to ride as close to the curb as possible but I almost got knocked off my bike too many times.As stated previously Buena Vista & Morse aren't wide enough to have 2 cars & a bike abreast of each other.There are way too many motorists that feel they have to stay in the right lane no matter the situation. So for my safety I force them to use the left lane to pass.

[outlaw]

Well, it is section 5, right above section 6 that you are citing:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.2065.html)

Read it again. Per your own link, what I highlighted in BOLD is not.

[outlaw]

Figure it out yourself, unless you are challenged.

Busted!

[golfing eagles]

This isn't the first thread along these lines, so at risk of incurring the ire of cyclists, let's bring some clarity to this thread:

First of all, bicycles are vehicles and have the right to use the roads, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW. I'm all in favor of safety, cyclists are much more at risk for injury than a car. However, in the spirit of sharing the road, there are RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with cyclists RIGHTS.

The link provided is to a cyclist association page, the "information" is NOT THE LAW, it is the author's OPINION and INTERPETATION of the law. So lets look at the actual Florida law:

316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The law is vague, it does not give a specific lane width or separation of motor vehicle and cycle. This is likely because the distance is relative to speed. The author in the link has interpreted subsection 3 to mean bicycles can ride in the middle of the road at any speed any time they want and "own the lane". This is NOT what the law states. The bicycle association itself advocates a minimum distance of 3 feet. The lanes on BV and Morse, at least south of 466A are 12-14 feet. My full size SUV is 6 feet wide, so hugging the center line, it allows 6-8 feet for the cyclist. Therefore, UNDER THE LAW, the cyclist has NO RIGHT to ride in the middle of the road at less than the speed of traffic, except as noted in subsection 1&2. It does not matter what the bicycle association has to say, only what THE LAW states. If you are riding in the middle at 35 mph, go for it. There is no reason for anyone to pass you. But if you are riding at 15 mph, you are IN VIOLATION of the law and can be cited.

Also:

(6) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing and shall ride within a single lane.

How many times do we come up on 3-4-5 cycles abreast in the middle of the lane so they can chit-chat?? They are also VIOLATING THE LAW. I also agree with Rubi---there are some (not all) cyclists who are loathe to stop at stop signs or lights because of the inconvenience of toe clips. Here's news--it is also "inconvenient" to stop a car as well, but it is THE LAW.

All that being said, motorists need to realize they are much safer than cyclists and act accordingly. But that does not excuse cyclists from taking over a lane when the LAW clearly forbids it.

Now I'll retreat to the bomb shelter.

Read it again. Per your own link, what I highlighted in BOLD is not.

above is my post, copied onto this one, and below is the copy from the link. Please see your ophthalmologist first thing Monday morning

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

[outlaw]

above is my post, copied onto this one, and below is the copy from the link. Please see your ophthalmologist first thing Monday morning

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

OK Doc. Here is what I posted in response to Tom's post, and what was in bold type that I was contesting as being in the statute: (5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The unsafe condition of substandard-width lanes is that drivers may unlawfully and dangerously attempt to pass within the lane or use the adjacent lane when there is conflicting traffic. Although that practice subjects the overtaking motorist and the on-coming motorist to some danger, the bicyclist is the one most likely to suffer harm in those circumstances.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

Now, if you can show me where that is in the statute, then I will go see my ophthalmologist. If not, please see your psychiatrist.

[biker1]

I figure 7 feet for a car, 2 feet for the bike, a minimum of 3 feet clearance, most cyclists are at least 2 feet inside the white line (as they should be because you can't hug the curb), and most cars are a couple of feet inside the center line. Add it all up and you are looking at about 16 feet. Even if the driver was hugging the center lane, you are looking at 14 feet. None of the roads are that wide.

well done

12 ft makes a road

Would you agree that the width of a car or minivan with mirrors is 90 inches

Would you agree that the law indicates you need to give a bike 3 ft to pass?

36+90=126 10 1/2 ft

You bike. How far is your front wheel to the curb? 1 1/2 ft?

Oh sh.., That's 12 ft. [i'll go away now,,,]

[biker1]

There are few cyclists who can maintain 25 MPH for any period of time (unless they have a tailwind and/or are going down a hill). Maintaining an average of 18 MPH is a pretty good clip. Hills and headwinds bring the average down further.

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

[goodtimesintv]

This whole thing is stupid.

Riding a bicycle in 35-45 mph car-truck-trailer traffic is like riding a 50cc mo-ped on I-75 (which is prohibited BTW).

It is stupid to take such risks and then blame the motorists for passing you too closely, or for wiping out yourself when you hit some gravel or other obstacle in the roadway.

Be responsible for the risks you take as a bicyclist instead of accusing motorists of "not sharing the road".

[golfing eagles]

OK Doc. Here is what I posted in response to Tom's post, and what was in bold type that I was contesting as being in the statute: (5)(a) 3. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

The unsafe condition of substandard-width lanes is that drivers may unlawfully and dangerously attempt to pass within the lane or use the adjacent lane when there is conflicting traffic. Although that practice subjects the overtaking motorist and the on-coming motorist to some danger, the bicyclist is the one most likely to suffer harm in those circumstances.

The provision in the Bicycle Regulations allows bicyclists to protect their space for their own safety.

The way they do that is to control the lane. They are not required to keep right. It is legal and it is the safest cycling practice under many circumstances.

Now, if you can show me where that is in the statute, then I will go see my ophthalmologist. If not, please see your psychiatrist.

My bad, I thought you were referring to what I put in bold and underlined, which was directly copied from the statute. Hang out on this site long enough and you do need a psychiatrist:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[alzjr]

Almost all bicyclists also drive cars. We don't instantaneously become idiots just because we are on a bicycle.

Most car drivers do not ride bicycles on our streets in The Villages so they cannot have any idea what is safe for a cyclist.

How many times have you been out in your car and not seen a bicycle? Bicycles are not that big a problem.

Driving a bicycle in the middle of a lane is safer because I know from driving a car I do not run into the back of slower vehicles in front of me. If I did run into a slower vehicle in front of me it would really delay getting to my destination. (wait for the sheriff and he would have to call the FHP because it is a personal injury accident, and then the time in court for a ticket for hitting a vehicle from behind, and then the increase in insurance for an at fault accident)

It is much easier and little effort (power steering) to signal and move over to the other lane.

Besides, regardless of our interpretation of the law the Sumter County Sheriff's deputies' have agreed that on our four lane roads a bicyclist can use the whole lane, and they are the ones that write the tickets.

[golfing eagles]

Almost all bicyclists also drive cars. We don't instantaneously become idiots just because we are on a bicycle.

Most car drivers do not ride bicycles on our streets in The Villages so they cannot have any idea what is safe for a cyclist.

How many times have you been out in your car and not seen a bicycle? Bicycles are not that big a problem.

Driving a bicycle in the middle of a lane is safer because I know from driving a car I do not run into the back of slower vehicles in front of me. If I did run into a slower vehicle in front of me it would really delay getting to my destination. (wait for the sheriff and he would have to call the FHP because it is a personal injury accident, and then the time in court for a ticket for hitting a vehicle from behind, and then the increase in insurance for an at fault accident)

It is much easier and little effort (power steering) to signal and move over to the other lane.

Besides, regardless of our interpretation of the law the Sumter County Sheriff's deputies' have agreed that on our four lane roads a bicyclist can use the whole lane, and they are the ones that write the tickets.

You're right, but maybe a bit late to the party. I started out to show that cyclists should generally stay out of the middle of the road, but through posting the actual law, the actual lane widths and the size of motor vehicles, I think I proved that cyclists are CORRECT riding in the lane, when appropriate.

As far as "Almost all bicyclists also drive cars. We don't instantaneously become idiots just because we are on a bicycle." goes---some do
Just like some drivers become idiots in a golf cart. I don't think too many would let their 8 year old grandchild drive their Mercedes SL 550, but have no problem handing over the wheel to a kid. Some drivers become idiots as pedestrians, walking and texting with no idea of their surroundings. Some drivers just start off as idiots in the first place, just watch traffic at the average RB. Enjoy your ride!

[Marathon Man]

Friends, please.

Those people on the bicycles are our neighbors. They just want to be safe. I am troubled by what I read here. Riding a bike is a healthy, enjoyable activity that they do. They do it on the roads because that is where it is done. The law, and common sense, provides for the proper sharing of the road with them. They are not an inconvenience. They are people who are simply using a different, legal mode of transportation.

Unless one of them runs into the side of my car (or comes close to doing so), I am not really affected by whether or not they fully stop at signs. So, I am just not going to care about it. I am going to continue on my way and enjoy my day. BTW, I have a lot more near misses with golf carts and autos than I do with bicycles.

Thank you. Please have a safe, and enjoyable day.

[Paper1]

Friends, please.

Those people on the bicycles are our neighbors. They just want to be safe. I am troubled by what I read here. Riding a bike is a healthy, enjoyable activity that they do. They do it on the roads because that is where it is done. The law, and common sense, provides for the proper sharing of the road with them. They are not an inconvenience. They are people who are simply using a different, legal mode of transportation.

Unless one of them runs into the side of my car (or comes close to doing so), I am not really affected by whether or not they fully stop at signs. So, I am just not going to care about it. I am going to continue on my way and enjoy my day. BTW, I have a lot more near misses with golf carts and autos than I do with bicycles.

Thank you. Please have a safe, and enjoyable day.
A kind and thoughtful post has no place in this thread, but thank you.

[Bosoxfan]

Almost all bicyclists also drive cars. We don't instantaneously become idiots just because we are on a bicycle.

Most car drivers do not ride bicycles on our streets in The Villages so they cannot have any idea what is safe for a cyclist.

How many times have you been out in your car and not seen a bicycle? Bicycles are not that big a problem.

Driving a bicycle in the middle of a lane is safer because I know from driving a car I do not run into the back of slower vehicles in front of me. If I did run into a slower vehicle in front of me it would really delay getting to my destination. (wait for the sheriff and he would have to call the FHP because it is a personal injury accident, and then the time in court for a ticket for hitting a vehicle from behind, and then the increase in insurance for an at fault accident)

It is much easier and little effort (power steering) to signal and move over to the other lane.

Besides, regardless of our interpretation of the law the Sumter County Sheriff's deputies' have agreed that on our four lane roads a bicyclist can use the whole lane, and they are the ones that write the tickets.
Wow!! By far the best post I've seen on this topic. :BigApplause:Now if we all could just accept the fact that there are cyclists on the road and they should be treated like a slow moving vehicle you'd pass safely then I've accomplished what I set out to do when I started this thread.:pray:

[rubicon]

Just measured Morse opposite Sarasota range---each lane, white line to center line is 12 feet. But this is absolutely the bare minimum width, IMHO, for safety. And that assumes a "good" driver and a "good" cyclist, which may be far and few between here. So, with all the FACTS in, even though the lanes are not "substandard", I think cyclists who are going to ride 25+ mph should exercise their right to "own the lane" as it is called. Might not need to do this if you see a mini-cooper coming up on you, but anything larger would put their safety at risk. If you are going to ride 15 mph, do the motorists, and your serious cycling cohorts a favor and stay on the MMPs. So in summary, my opinion would be that 14 feet and wider lanes, wherever that may be, follow the law and stay right. 12 feet and under, obey the law and "own the lane". Perhaps the Florida legislature could clear up section 5 posted above. Mia culpa to my cycling friends, they were right all along, even if it might have been for the wrong reason. Happy Trails!!!

Hmmm you and tomwed have been measuring the width of the main thoroughfares here Morse/Buena Vista Blvds and found that they are approx 12 feet wide, with a three foot space needed between car/bicyclist. Seems to me Sumter County was sending a subtle message that perhaps bicycles do not belong on the road in The Villages because given the choice between cars/ bikes we know who is going to get preference.

Oh I'm just joshing:pepper2: I respect bikers rights to ride and their need to take responsibility for safe biking but don't ask me to like it because the last thing as a driver that I need is another obstruction to hamper my travels

[mickey100]

Friends, please.

Those people on the bicycles are our neighbors. They just want to be safe. I am troubled by what I read here. Riding a bike is a healthy, enjoyable activity that they do. They do it on the roads because that is where it is done. The law, and common sense, provides for the proper sharing of the road with them. They are not an inconvenience. They are people who are simply using a different, legal mode of transportation.

Unless one of them runs into the side of my car (or comes close to doing so), I am not really affected by whether or not they fully stop at signs. So, I am just not going to care about it. I am going to continue on my way and enjoy my day. BTW, I have a lot more near misses with golf carts and autos than I do with bicycles.

Thank you. Please have a safe, and enjoyable day.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for posting.

[tuccillo]

In our society, roads are a shared resource.

Hmmm you and tomwed have been measuring the width of the main thoroughfares here Morse/Buena Vista Blvds and found that they are approx 12 feet wide, with a three foot space needed between car/bicyclist. Seems to me Sumter County was sending a subtle message that perhaps bicycles do not belong on the road in The Villages because given the choice between cars/ bikes we know who is going to get preference.

Oh I'm just joshing:pepper2: I respect bikers rights to ride and their need to take responsibility for safe biking but don't ask me to like it because the last thing as a driver that I need is another obstruction to hamper my travels

[golfing eagles]

Hmmm you and tomwed have been measuring the width of the main thoroughfares here Morse/Buena Vista Blvds and found that they are approx 12 feet wide, with a three foot space needed between car/bicyclist. Seems to me Sumter County was sending a subtle message that perhaps bicycles do not belong on the road in The Villages because given the choice between cars/ bikes we know who is going to get preference.

Oh I'm just joshing:pepper2: I respect bikers rights to ride and their need to take responsibility for safe biking but don't ask me to like it because the last thing as a driver that I need is another obstruction to hamper my travels

yes, and I guarantee both of us were out in the middle of the boulevard moving much slower than a cyclist!

[Bosoxfan]

Friends, please.

Those people on the bicycles are our neighbors. They just want to be safe. I am troubled by what I read here. Riding a bike is a healthy, enjoyable activity that they do. They do it on the roads because that is where it is done. The law, and common sense, provides for the proper sharing of the road with them. They are not an inconvenience. They are people who are simply using a different, legal mode of transportation.

Unless one of them runs into the side of my car (or comes close to doing so), I am not really affected by whether or not they fully stop at signs. So, I am just not going to care about it. I am going to continue on my way and enjoy my day. BTW, I have a lot more near misses with golf carts and autos than I do with bicycles.

Thank you. Please have a safe, and enjoyable day.

Wish all here had your common sense.Thank You!!!:mademyday:

[rubicon]

yes, and I guarantee both of us were out in the middle of the boulevard moving much slower than a cyclist!

Hi golfing eagles: Actually not when it comes to slow the only reason for me for being slow is an obstruction like a bike a slow car, construction etc. My sin is impatience with slow traffic

My only point in this thread is that the realty and human instinct (natural reaction) is to be somewhat annoyed with obstructions. Just because one has that thought it doesn't mean malice etc directed at anyone, Its just a fleeting thought, like a bad golf shot it disappears in seconds. but everything is politics and this thread reminds us of that fact.

Personal Best Regards:

[golfing eagles]

Hi golfing eagles: Actually not when it comes to slow the only reason for me for being slow is an obstruction like a bike a slow car, construction etc. My sin is impatience with slow traffic

My only point in this thread is that the realty and human instinct (natural reaction) is to be somewhat annoyed with obstructions. Just because one has that thought it doesn't mean malice etc directed at anyone, Its just a fleeting thought, like a bad golf shot it disappears in seconds. but everything is politics and this thread reminds us of that fact.

Personal Best Regards:

Here are my musings on this subject, for what they're worth:

I'm only impatient with slow traffic when there is no reason for it.

After all the research I posted above, including walking out to the middle of Morse Blvd. with a tape measure, I feel cyclists should take over a lane for their own safety unless the lane is at least 14 feet wide, which is not the case in TV. I'm referring to serious cyclists who are riding in the 20-25-30 mph range, not a super senior tooling along at 8-10 mph--they should stay on the MMP. The roads were primarily designed for motor vehicles, the is no bike lane BECAUSE there are MMPs for vehicles travelling 20 mph or less.
Other legitimate reasons for slow downs include heavy traffic, construction zones and accidents. I don't get impatient with any of these, it's just a reality of driving.
Like you, I am not a "slow driver"--I don't speed in TV, I'm usually 1-2 mph under the 30 mph zones, 1-2 mph over in the 35 zones, and usually right at 45 in the 45 zones. Going any faster makes little sense, you gain a minute or so at best
Interstates are a different matter, especially on a long trip. I'll admit I set cruise control to 73 in a 65 zone and 78 in a 70 zone. At that speed, I'm usually passing 2/3 of the cars on the road and getting passed by 1/3. Which bring us to slow downs for absolutely no reason, which, like you, I get impatient with.
Number one pet peeve---some bozo chugging along at 55 in a 70 zone in the left lane. WHY? There are lots of these drivers on the interstates---even with no car for 1/2 mile ahead or behind in either lane, but there they are, just la-de-da-ing in the left lane. "Keep right except to pass" has a 2 syllable word in it--maybe it's too much for them to handle intellectually. I'll also admit that upon encountering these idiots, I pass them in a fashion that makes my displeasure pretty clear. I just wish a few of them would get cited by LEOs for failure to keep right, the word would get around pretty quickly and cut down on offenders. I'm always in the right lane, except to pass. Again, these people may not get into an accident themselves, but are likely to cause one in moderate+ traffic as the rest of the drivers make stupid moves to get around them.
Pet peeve #2---truckers that are going 56 pulling out in front of me to pass a truck going 55, especially when approaching an upgrade. 17 hours later and 10 miles of traffic back up and you may get past them.
Pet peeve #3. The guy who climbs up my back while I am passing slower traffic---even though I may have sped up to 80+ to pass and get over to the right to let him pass--then he passes me and drops down to 66, forcing me to get left and pass him---but upon noticing this he speeds back up, I drop in behind him and he slows down again---ARRRGHHH. The cousin to this guy is the one who comes up from behind like a bat out of he!! so I drop behind slower traffic that I had intended to pass, then he rides just off my back fender instead of passing, forcing me to brake for the cars ahead.
End of rant.

[Chellybean]

cyclists have a right to be on the road, but they also have the requirement to ride safely as far to the right as possible. You do not have the authority to enforce traffic laws. That's what the police are for. Instead of forcing drivers into another lane, record the offending car's license number and report it to the authorities. Now, from a practical standpoint, you are never going to convince a significant portion of the driving population that you have as much right to the whole lane as they do. It ain't gonna happen. How long have cyclists been beating this drum? It seems like forever. So you can keep trying to dangerously enforce your interpretation of the laws, possibly/probably resulting in a competition of wills between two stubborn users of the road that may end with tragedy for both, but especially for you. Or you can accept that roads were built and primarily paid for by drivers, and learn to not only share the road, but try to defer to the driver and win them over one at a time. When i ride on the road (seldom), i try to accommodate drivers. For instance, when riding on a side street in tv, and i am riding abreast with someone else, i always convert to riding single file as far to the right as safely as possible, giving the driver almost two lanes to pass. What i find is 95% of the time, the driver goes all the way over almost completely into the other lane to pass me. And probably 100% of the time the driver gives me ample room, even though still partially in my lane. You are not helping the cycling community by insisting on drivers complying with your interpretation of sharing the road. You only hurt the cyclists that are willing to accommodate drivers, since it is obvious the roads were designed and built for autos, not bicycles. Drivers you p!ss off, then resent all cyclists.


well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tomwed]

"experto crede is a Latin motto which means Trust in one experienced; literally: "(the/an) expert trust". It is usually used by an author as an aside to the reader, and may be loosely translated as: "trust me", "trust the expert", "believe one who has tried it", or "have faith in experience".

A lot of these threads are about the law and using good judgement. One is fact and the other is opinion. You just need to accept who the experts are and sometimes forget the law.

It's a fact it's legal to bike without a helmet. Real bikers, the experts in the spandex know that's a stupid law. They all have cracked skull stories.

It's fact that taking over a road is not always legal. The experts know that you are more likely to get clipped by a car or truck mirror or run into debris than run over from behind. So even if it looks foolhardy to you, it's not.

It's a fact going through a stop sign is not legal. The experts know that if they have full visibility it is safer to roll through.

The people in spandex are just telling you what they are going to do.

The responses in this thread were far more kinder than I have read in similar threads 2 years ago. Am I seeing a shift in acceptance?

[JCMSr]

Wow!! By far the best post I've seen on this topic. :BigApplause:Now if we all could just accept the fact that there are cyclists on the road and they should be treated like a slow moving vehicle you'd pass safely then I've accomplished what I set out to do when I started this thread.:pray:

Although I would consider myself a recreational cyclist at best (probably could not go 25 downhill with a tailwind if my life depended on it) this thread has been somewhat educational to me. I will admit that I become somewhat irritated when I encounter bicycles in the traffic lanes along some of the primary roads in TV and did not realize that the traffic laws allowed them to travel in the middle of the lane. Despite my irritation, however, I have always given them ample room if/when I am able to pass safely. If this is what you were trying to accomplish then cudo's to you. Now, if you would just teach your cyclist friends and buddies that if they want to use the traffic laws to justify (rightfully in this instance) their actions they need to obey ALL of the laws and not just the ones that suit their purposes. This means stopping at all stop signs, giving the right of way to pedestrians in a crosswalk and (my all time favorite) illegal lane changes (I call this lane surfing) when entering/exiting the roundabouts. And for those of us that choose to stick to the MMP's when riding, please be aware that in this case pedestrians always have the right of way based on what I have learned from some of the information posted above.

[GaryW]

Well we made it 18 days into 2016 before this came up again.

It is always a fight to the end with this type of thread,,, I am a serious cyclist as are most of the folks I cycle with here in The Villages. I have at times ran thru a Stop Sign, for the most part rolled up to it come almost to a stop but keep going if clear. I yell at the cats I ride with to stay single file unless we have a rather large group and we are approaching a roundabout, then we take the lane coming to the roundabout. If not a car or truck will move into the lane as we are already at the circle and push us off the road. Will try to anyway..

Just had this happen not long ago at a circle,, It was the roundabout going south on Morse from 466A at Pinellas.

I was in the right lane coming to the circle and a SUV change from the left lane into my lane on top of me as we entered the circles. I hit the side of his truck real hard and dented it as I hit the curb,, He stopped and I stopped,, called SCSO. He got a ticket for lane violation or violation of right-a-way. He told the Deputy He knew I was there but I have no right to be on the road. He is the one that called the LAW on me as he put it,, but he got the ticket,,

Bottom line is every time this topic comes up,, it turns into a cyclist bashing deal. There are plenty of cars, motorcycle, golf carts that do not obey the laws,, stop at every stop sign and so on,,, WHY BASH JUST CYCLIST.

There is always a argument on lane width and riding in the middle of the road, I will never ride in the middle of the road and no cyclist should. Like on Buena Vista and Morse south of 466,,, 2 lanes wide each side,,,we stay as far right as possible in the right lane and single file, except when the front rider is moving to the rear of the pack. and we average of 21 MPH most of the time. and will approach 30 MPH a lot of times,,,

I for one am not going to go out and measure the road width,, It does not matter. The only time I see it fit to take up a lane is entering a roundabout. We do it for safety as I mentioned above. This whole hem hawing back and forth on the Florida Law is for the birds,, One sees it one way and One sees it another. You got some who hate the idea of a cyclist on the road, and some who are down with it and enjoy seeing people out exercising.

The Bottom line is,, do we have the right to road,, HECK YEA,, should we always press that issue HECK NO. This is a retirement community, and all should act like it and be courteous to one another. No idea why so many people are in such a big hurry.

This is not New York City or LA. Cant we all just get along,,, SHARE THE ROAD. :beer3:

[rubicon]

Here are my musings on this subject, for what they're worth:

I'm only impatient with slow traffic when there is no reason for it.

After all the research I posted above, including walking out to the middle of Morse Blvd. with a tape measure, I feel cyclists should take over a lane for their own safety unless the lane is at least 14 feet wide, which is not the case in TV. I'm referring to serious cyclists who are riding in the 20-25-30 mph range, not a super senior tooling along at 8-10 mph--they should stay on the MMP. The roads were primarily designed for motor vehicles, the is no bike lane BECAUSE there are MMPs for vehicles travelling 20 mph or less.
Other legitimate reasons for slow downs include heavy traffic, construction zones and accidents. I don't get impatient with any of these, it's just a reality of driving.
Like you, I am not a "slow driver"--I don't speed in TV, I'm usually 1-2 mph under the 30 mph zones, 1-2 mph over in the 35 zones, and usually right at 45 in the 45 zones. Going any faster makes little sense, you gain a minute or so at best
Interstates are a different matter, especially on a long trip. I'll admit I set cruise control to 73 in a 65 zone and 78 in a 70 zone. At that speed, I'm usually passing 2/3 of the cars on the road and getting passed by 1/3. Which bring us to slow downs for absolutely no reason, which, like you, I get impatient with.
Number one pet peeve---some bozo chugging along at 55 in a 70 zone in the left lane. WHY? There are lots of these drivers on the interstates---even with no car for 1/2 mile ahead or behind in either lane, but there they are, just la-de-da-ing in the left lane. "Keep right except to pass" has a 2 syllable word in it--maybe it's too much for them to handle intellectually. I'll also admit that upon encountering these idiots, I pass them in a fashion that makes my displeasure pretty clear. I just wish a few of them would get cited by LEOs for failure to keep right, the word would get around pretty quickly and cut down on offenders. I'm always in the right lane, except to pass. Again, these people may not get into an accident themselves, but are likely to cause one in moderate+ traffic as the rest of the drivers make stupid moves to get around them.
Pet peeve #2---truckers that are going 56 pulling out in front of me to pass a truck going 55, especially when approaching an upgrade. 17 hours later and 10 miles of traffic back up and you may get past them.
Pet peeve #3. The guy who climbs up my back while I am passing slower traffic---even though I may have sped up to 80+ to pass and get over to the right to let him pass--then he passes me and drops down to 66, forcing me to get left and pass him---but upon noticing this he speeds back up, I drop in behind him and he slows down again---ARRRGHHH. The cousin to this guy is the one who comes up from behind like a bat out of he!! so I drop behind slower traffic that I had intended to pass, then he rides just off my back fender instead of passing, forcing me to brake for the cars ahead.
End of rant.

golfing eagles: I agree and my reference to the bad golf shot and the 10 seconds needed to let it go. One poster referenced cyclist as being our neighbors, etc. to me that is stating the obvious because most of us here are considerate because we are aware that they are our neighbors. But we also have neighbors like the guy in the grocery store who cuts in line the golfer at a golf course that deliberately is a slow player etc. People are not robots and to expect no reaction from things that annoy you is unrealistic. We address these type of situations here to pass the time and because we contribute to the thread but in actual practice most grin and bear it. Which leads me to say that some posters take this forum too seriously and hence too personally. And just because I say something annoys me doesn't mean I will act upon that thought. Its all good

I will not hold up people on the road or MMP, on the golf course and often let a customer with less items than me jump ahead in line

[kittygilchrist]

Bicycle rider in front of me moves far right in intersection, slows down, raises left arm straight out, wobbles on bike, tries to look back, left arm goes to handlebar and back out straight. I pull up beside her, now on my right, and ask if she is trying to turn.
YES, she says, I signaled...right there, pointing across both of us.
I say...that is a left turn.
Oh.:loco::loco::loco: