Katie Belles is Not a Restaurant

[Chatbrat]

My wife went in to Katie Belles today, to check it out.

It in her honest opinion nothing but a diner theater.

You can't drop in for a drink--the bar only has 12 places.

The only reason I go to Spanish Springs these days is for MVP health club.

Opps got tickets for Greg Outfield & Dana Perino @ the Sharon--its advertised as a Town Hall-if I don't get the chance to participate @ $150/ apiece I will not be a happy camper



If

[Polar Bear]

:rolleyes:

[NYGUY]

....Opps got tickets for Greg Outfield & Dana Perino @ the Sharon--its advertised as a Town Hall-if I don't get the chance to participate @ $150/ apiece I will not be a happy camper



If

What does this mean in english....who are/what are "Opps"?? What does "Town Hall" mean??

[graciegirl]

Hard to know what would be up to par..............


I thought a diner had those round stools....

[Bogie Shooter]

Why would anyone pay $150 to see/hear Greg Outfield?

[Bay Kid]

It is what is. Enjoy

[OldManTime]

The overall ambiance of KB's has changed it is more commercial than the old comfortable setting it was in the 90's. I went for a drink at the bar, limited time frame, happy hour drinks were reasonably priced, a friend went to evening dinner, and said a glass of wine $8. and the food was excellent, but real expensive.

[raynan]

Early bird dinners are 3:30-5:30 and the average price for dinner is $12.50 then and you have the table for 2 hours. Sounds reasonable to me not expensive.

[Bogie Shooter]

Expensive means different level to different people.

[billethkid]

We gave up being put on the clock when we retired!
More than enough options/alternatives available!

[Bonny]

I do know that I don't want anyone watching their watch while I'm trying to eat to make sure I'm out in 2 hours. Even though we usually are out by then.

[outlaw]

Early bird dinners are 3:30-5:30 and the average price for dinner is $12.50 then and you have the table for 2 hours. Sounds reasonable to me not expensive.

Does anyone know anyone that eats dinner at 3:30?

[Chi-Town]

On busy nights Lopez puts you on the clock. It is understandable, and a conversation can always be concluded in the lounge or one of the sitting areas.

[tomwed]

Does anyone know anyone that eats dinner at 3:30?
I suppose a better name than Dinner is big meal for the day. That's what we always had on Sunday at 3:30. Everyday is Sunday when you're retired.

[Bonny]

We like having our dinner 3:30 - 4:00. I don't like eating too late.

[Bonny]

On busy nights Lopez puts you on the clock. It is understandable, and a conversation can always be concluded in the lounge or one of the sitting areas.
I agree, on busy nights and there is a wait, I would never linger at a table.

[GeraldHall]

My wife and I like the new Katie Belles. The old one had to many people who came and spent very little money just hanging out and taking up space with no profit for the club. Spells doom for a business. We have enjoyed our three visits there. Food and service were excellent. Yes, it's different, but we like the new approach. Just requires a different mindset.

[Chatbrat]

We eat close to 4

[TomOB]

We usually eat our big meal around 3-4, then have a small salad later if we are still hungry. Although it is not the "American Way" it is the way of much of the world.

[JoMar]

In season we always eat early to avoid the wait or lately, we have been leaving the dome. Out of season we eat when we want to and that varies by day.

[goodtimesintv]

It seems like it's the people who've lived here the longest are those who lament the change to KB's the most. It's understandable, but time marches on.

Don't the oldest or most longstanding residents understand that TV has to be refreshed and revitalized on an ongoing basis (i.e. buying up ramshackled mobile homes and replacing with site built in historic section), in order to continue to attract age 55 or retirement age group people who will buy homes here?

Why do people want their homes and the housing market here to devaluate due to little influx of "new blood" when they die and their kids will inherit them? Or when the owners might have to sell when they're 90 and need to go into assisted living or move closer to their families?

The age 55 bracket has to be considered in first priority if TV is going to stay in good shape, and TV has proven it with their marketing success here.

[tomwed]

It seems like it's the people who've lived here the longest are those who lament the change to KB's the most. It's understandable, but time marches on.

Don't the oldest or most longstanding residents understand that TV has to be refreshed and revitalized on an ongoing basis (i.e. buying up ramshackled mobile homes and replacing with site built in historic section), in order to continue to attract age 55 or retirement age group people who will buy homes here?

Why do people want their homes and the housing market here to devaluate due to little influx of "new blood" when they die and their kids will inherit them? Or when the owners might have to sell when they're 90 and need to go into assisted living or move closer to their families?

The age 55 bracket has to be considered in first priority if TV is going to stay in good shape, and TV has proven it with their marketing success here.
I'm not following your logic. I feel like you are judging people older than yourself and assuming only older residents liked Katie Belles.

Katie Belles was a western style opera house. It was a multi-level Rosie O'Grady's Saloon type of place There were no others around. Residents and customers enjoyed it since 1991. I'm not sure of that date.

About 25 years later there is still no competition. I can't understand it why it doesn't do well even though many have tried to explain it to me.

Each year there are more options about where to eat but nothing like Katie Belles..

Rebuilding homes in the north end of town has nothing to do with Katie Belles.

[Bonny]

I'm not following your logic. I feel like you are judging people older than yourself and assuming only older residents liked Katie Belles.

Katie Belles was a western style opera house. It was a multi-level Rosie O'Grady's Saloon type of place There were no others around. Residents and customers enjoyed it since 1991. I'm not sure of that date.

About 25 years later there is still no competition. I can't understand it why it doesn't do well even though many have tried to explain it to me.

Each year there are more options about where to eat but nothing like Katie Belles..

Rebuilding homes in the north end of town has nothing to do with Katie Belles.
I think Katie Belles opened about '97

[tuccillo]

We have seen Uncle Bob's Rock Shop at the old Katie Belle's at least 6 times. It was a great venue for music and dancing with the large dance floor and two-story ceiling. Reserved seats for the whole evening could be had for $2 or $3, depending on the table. If you chose to eat, the food was good for the price. Any discussion of food quality must start with a consideration of the price. You can't expect 5 star food for 3 star prices. Drink prices were very good and I always found the service to be very good. It was a fun place to go for 4+ hours. The new format is apparently different with 2 shows per night so staying for more than 2 hours requires multiple reservations, possibly at different tables. I haven't seen the new layout yet but I suspect it can't compete with the airy environment of the old Katie Belle's two-story ceiling. We will go soon to check it out, hopefully when UBRS is there.

I'm not following your logic. I feel like you are judging people older than yourself and assuming only older residents liked Katie Belles.

Katie Belles was a western style opera house. It was a multi-level Rosie O'Grady's Saloon type of place There were no others around. Residents and customers enjoyed it since 1991. I'm not sure of that date.

About 25 years later there is still no competition. I can't understand it why it doesn't do well even though many have tried to explain it to me.

Each year there are more options about where to eat but nothing like Katie Belles..

Rebuilding homes in the north end of town has nothing to do with Katie Belles.

[llaran]

after reading the website I'm not sure "town hall " is what you will see.

[kilowatt]

We thought the food was better, the prices a touch higher but still fair. We liked the atmosphere at the old Katie Belles better, although they did do a good job on the replacement. We booked to see Rocky and the Rollers on the 29th and reserved tables for "both" shows. We used to go for the 4 hours and will still do that although it will cost us another six bucks. We think it will still be worth it for the extra money; can`t put a price on fun and enjoyment!

[vrebomike]

Katie Belles was the place I brought all my guests to really show them how much fun we had in The Villages. No longer!

[JoMar]

Katie Belles was the place I brought all my guests to really show them how much fun we had in The Villages. No longer!

I'm sure they will appreciate your control of their lives.

[justjim]

We usually eat our big meal around 3-4, then have a small salad later if we are still hungry. Although it is not the "American Way" it is the way of much of the world.

Many Retirees changed their dinner time following retirement. Some, of course didn't. I know we are much more flexible since we retired.

[rustyp]

I think Katie Belles opened about '97

Close - your are only off about ten years

[PJOHNS2654]

Close - your are only off about ten years

I first went there in 2003.

[tomwed]

Close - your are only off about ten years
What year did it open?

[bluedog103]

Katie Belles was the place I brought all my guests to really show them how much fun we had in The Villages. No longer!
We used to take guests to Katie Belles too. On return visits they would most always want to return to KBs. The original Katies was unique. The new one, even though the food may be better, is just another place to eat.

[Bonny]

Close - your are only off about ten years
Spanish Springs Square didn't even open until 1994.

[2BNTV]

I think Katie Belles opened about '97

Bonny is right!!! I googled it.

Let's Hear Big Howdy For Katie Belle's - tribunedigital-orlandosentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1997-11-12/news/9711110761_1_church-street-station-katie-belle-villages)

[tomwed]

Spanish Springs Square didn't even open until 1994.
Have you ever seen a timeline when things were built in TV? I've done a little poking around and came up empty except for generalizations.

[HoosierPa]

We are new Owners in TV. Like most of you, we visited KB a few years ago before we bought and really liked it. It was a lot of fun and unique and more of a night club atmosphere. I am really disappointed that it has closed (and reopened as a different type of place under the same name.) BUT if the Owners were losing money by keeping it open as it was, I do not blame them a bit for trying something different. In reality, night clubs generally have a much shorter life span than the good run the old KB had.

[Bonny]

Just saw another site that the Van Patten Building was built in 1991 but the square didn't open until 1994. I know some of the people that started working there when they opened. I'll have to ask them.
I know we were here in 1999 and they wore those big old time dresses that had to weigh 50 pounds and spats. It was pretty cool.
A few years later they used to do $1.00 burgers then it went up to $1.25 on Tuesdays. We'd get a big group out on the patio. Penny and a couple of others would come out on roller skates. That didn't last long. LOL
After we would go upstairs, get a drink and shoot pool.
We loved Tuesdays.

I remember when the drink huts were model T trucks. Needless to say, when it rained, they closed them up. :laugh:

[Bonny]

Have you ever seen a timeline when things were built in TV? I've done a little poking around and came up empty except for generalizations.
Same thing I was finding.

[rustyp]

Spanish Springs Square didn't even open until 1994.

Your right - I'm wrong. I got my dates messed up. 1988 is when the Morse family started to expand across the highway. As near as I can figure out it must have taken about eight years. I have documentation that Spanish Springs Brewery, Augustine's, Augie's Tap Room and Bichara's Bakery opened Oct 1996. I don't have a firm date on Katie Belle's. I suspect before 1996 by a little.

[asianthree]

Since we eat dinner at 8 o'clock no matter where we go there's not much of a crowd. Have been to Katie belles twice since 2007 we will try again. Not a fn of dinner and a show

[Bonny]

Katie Belles opened just about 1997. It was Katie Belles up & down.
After a couple of years, the upstairs was called the "Key Club". It was still Katie Belles, but residents only. Same menu as downstairs.
About 2001 or 2002, they tried to transform the upstairs as more of a club. "Cattle Baron" would now be more of a private club. There was a fee to join & you had to spend so much money per month. That was short lived so they changed it to just more of a fine dining for residents.
Of course, during these times, we lost our pool table upstairs. There were various changes to the downstairs throughout the years. They took part of it for Chicos, took the railings down around the dance floor, etc.

We've seen so many changes. I remember when we would go to the seafood buffet at Hacienda Hills CC. The best ever. You had to wear a sport jacket to go there. :)

[kilowatt]

It is just another place to eat, the old Katie Belles was unique. This different format will possibly make them more money but time will tell. You have to get out in two hours and that`s sad. I`m just starting to get warmed up and enjoying the music and dancing. I know, you can make a double reservation, whoopi-do!

[JoMar]

It is just another place to eat, the old Katie Belles was unique. This different format will possibly make them more money but time will tell. You have to get out in two hours and that`s sad. I`m just starting to get warmed up and enjoying the music and dancing. I know, you can make a double reservation, whoopi-do!

Why wouldn't you make a double reservation if that's what you enjoy...why leave when you are warmed up and enjoying the music and dancing?

[kilowatt]

I did make a double reservation. The point is it`s just another act of greed by The Villages. I will spend the extra money for our enjoyment but I don`t have to like it.

[tomwed]

another act of greed by The Villages
I golfed at Spruce Creek last week. The course is in bad shape. It cost $15 and you get a cart. That's what the residents pay also and there is no discount for owning your own cart. They pay $135/month.
Look at all that we have for just a little more money a month. A house is not a depreciating asset, here or there.

I didn't want the old Katie Belles to go because there was nothing like it within an hours drive. I didn't like to see the sit down concerts of adult music in the church on the square go because I can't find anything similar for half the price of a movie ticket.

But I would hardly call the powers in charge greedy.

[spring_chicken]

Why do people want to stay and watch the same show all over again?

[Bonny]

Why do people want to stay and watch the same show all over again?
It's not really watching the same show. It's another hour & 1/2 of music and dancing when bands or singers are there.

[tuccillo]

Because in the case of some of the bands, I suspect they don't play the same set for the second show.

Why do people want to stay and watch the same show all over again?

[Chatbrat]

Its like having Alzheimers, every day is a new day-by the way my wife & I took care of her mother @ out house in NC & every day was a new day

Just consider every sitting a new day--if you like it go for it

Its not our cup of tea--thats why we always wanting late sitting on cruise ships

[JoMar]

I did make a double reservation. The point is it`s just another act of greed by The Villages. I will spend the extra money for our enjoyment but I don`t have to like it.

Ah, the old greed thing. It always shows up. I personally like the policy to charge for the second show....it may help open up seats for the second show so more people can enjoy the place. In the past people camped there so getting in was not always easy. If there are enough people that play the greed card and won't stay for two, more of the population might benefit.

[graciegirl]

Ah, the old greed thing. It always shows up. I personally like the policy to charge for the second show....it may help open up seats for the second show so more people can enjoy the place. In the past people camped there so getting in was not always easy. If there are enough people that play the greed card and won't stay for two, more of the population might benefit.



I have thought about this long and hard. I think it is the folks who have never worked in a sales business or a for profit business who talk about greed. Maybe all of the teachers and the government workers. No they would be too smart to not understand that businesses must earn a profit.


At the numerous sales meetings I have attended over time did I hear one sales manager lecture us not to be greedy. Not one. In fact greed wasn't mentioned. They did challenge us to meet our goals and then some.


It never made me feel bad or ugly or shameful. It was my job to sell stuff and keep the company going so the office staff and the manufacturing folks would continue to have a job and I could buy some nice Christmas presents and pay for our kids college so they didn't have to. I did this according to my ethical upbringing and could always feel I was serving my customers as well.

[goodtimesintv]

It's "greed" to generate the revenue needed to employ people and pay the bills to run the place and keep it in good condition and pay the good musicians well????

I think it's "greed" when people who've never worked in a business expect owners and workers to work their tails off to serve people too "greedy" to PAY for all they're being offered!

We only pay $148 Amenities Fee here, and it's the Buy of the Century for the gazillion things that are offered in TV.

[tomwed]

Will Bill gates give away all his money?
Why Bill Gates Is Giving Away His Fortune - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/GlobalHealth/story?id=1286093)
Bill earned a lot of money and he's giving it to people who are sick.

[goodtimesintv]

Will Bill gates give away all his money?
Why Bill Gates Is Giving Away His Fortune - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/GlobalHealth/story?id=1286093)
Bill earned a lot of money and he's giving it to people who are sick.

The Gates Foundation's Leveraged Philanthropy: Corporate Profit Versus Humanity on Three Fronts

"Gates' leveraged philanthropy model is a public-private partnership
to improve the world, partly through targeted research support but principally through public advocacy and tax-free lobbying to influence government policy.
The goal of these policies is often to explicitly support profitability for corporate investors, whose enterprises are seen by the Gates Foundation as advancing human good. However, maximum corporate profit and public good often clash when its projects are implemented.

For example, chemical giant Monsanto has partnered with the Gates Foundation, which reportedly works to suppress local seed exchanges and environmentally sustainable agricultural practices through its global agricultural charity work.

Fraud-prone drug giant GlaxoSmithKline is a partner in the Foundation's work to leverage its own relatively fractional contribution to vaccination efforts, so that it centrally controls enormous world funds for purchase, pricing, and delivery of vaccines for world public health. And in its U.S. education reform charity work, the Gates Foundation has increasingly shifted its funding to promote market domination by its British corporate education services partner, Pearson Education...."

The Gates Foundation's Leveraged Philanthropy: Corporate Profit Versus Humanity on Three Fronts - Living in Dialogue - Education Week Teacher (http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/07/the_gates_foundations_leverage.html)

[rustyp]

I keep seeing an insinuation that Katie Belles was operating in the red. Is this true and where is the proof. I suspect they weren't. Does private business have a right to maximize profits ? Yes. Does private business have ethical responsibilities ? I hope so. I see a case where Katie Belles may have had an ethical responsibility to the residents. It was certainly sold that way. Life style visits including coupons to resident only exclusive club. Those word came out of the sales agents mouths many times during the whining and dining purchase phase. Thus if Katie Belles was not in the red and is maximizing profits can you call it greed ? My opinion - yes. The Developer owns plenty of business' to maximize profits on. Could have saved this controversial one for latter. I do think there was another message about this whole thing but I'll be darned if I'm smart enough to figure it out.

[graciegirl]

I keep seeing an insinuation that Katie Belles was operating in the red. Is this true and where is the proof. I suspect they weren't. Does private business have a right to maximize profits ? Yes. Does private business have ethical responsibilities ? I hope so. I see a case where Katie Belles may have had an ethical responsibility to the residents. It was certainly sold that way. Life style visits including coupons to resident only exclusive club. Those word came out of the sales agents mouths many times during the whining and dining purchase phase. Thus if Katie Belles was not in the red and is maximizing profits can you call it greed ? My opinion - yes. The Developer owns plenty of business' to maximize profits on. Could have saved this controversial one for latter. I do think there was another message about this whole thing but I'll be darned if I'm smart enough to figure it out.



None of us own Katie Belles, so it isn't ours to decide how it's run.


If folks don't like it, don't go there.


It was a member's exclusive club. That didn't mean a hill of beans to me and that fact that it is no longer Villagers exclusive doesn't mean anything to me either... and I have never felt warm and loving thoughts toward a restaurant or bar. They are places to eat and drink. I like some more than others, but I can't remember getting sad when one closed or changed.


I am proud of the Eisenhower Center and always take visitors there, and love to take them to Cane Garden and Glenview because we like the food and prices. But the whole kit and caboodle of The Villages is what takes our visitors breath away. Not one bar restaurant.


AND the coupons we got for lifestyle meals included Arnold Palmer and Cane Garden and The Lighthouse.


Now they don't have to give out freebies to get people to buy. It sells itself.

[rustyp]

None of us own Katie Belles, so it isn't ours to decide how it's run.


If folks don't like it, don't go there.


It was a member's exclusive club. That didn't mean a hill of beans to me and that fact that it is no longer Villagers exclusive doesn't mean anything to me either... and I have never felt warm and loving thoughts toward a restaurant or bar. They are places to eat and drink. I like some more than others, but I can't remember getting sad when one closed or changed.


I am proud of the Eisenhower Center and always take visitors there, and love to take them to Cane Garden and Glenview because we like the food and prices. But the whole kit and caboodle of The Villages is what takes our visitors breath away. Not one bar restaurant.


AND the coupons we got for lifestyle meals included Arnold Palmer and Cane Garden and The Lighthouse.


Now they don't have to give out freebies to get people to buy. It sells itself.

Graciegirl - If there was only one side of an issue this would not be a very non interesting forum. I'm not taking the bridge because they changed Katie Belle's. Again this whole change doesn't totally make sense to me. Remember when I quizzed the logic about moving it upstairs in a retirement community ? The answer was wait and see The Developer knows what their doing. Well I have not seen one post of anyone proclaiming going upstairs was a brilliant idea and they were in love with it. To say it is the owners right is 100% correct. But to see only one point of view is like my mother telling me "because" when I asked her a question. By the way I was a pain in the a*s to my mom growing up too.

[graciegirl]

Graciegirl - If there was only one side of an issue this would not be a very non interesting forum. I'm not taking the bridge because they changed Katie Belle's. Again this whole change doesn't totally make sense to me. Remember when I quizzed the logic about moving it upstairs in a retirement community ? The answer was wait and see The Developer knows what their doing. Well I have not seen one post of anyone proclaiming going upstairs was a brilliant idea and they were in love with it. To say it is the owners right is 100% correct. But to see only one point of view is like my mother telling me "because" when I asked her a question. By the way I was a pain in the a*s to my mom growing up too.



All very smart children are.

[tomwed]

The Gates Foundation's Leveraged Philanthropy: Corporate Profit Versus Humanity on Three Fronts

[/url]
Gates is greedy and just trying to make more money? Is that your point?

I don't think so.

[goodtimesintv]

Gates is greedy and just trying to make more money? Is that your point?

I don't think so.

Look at the article I linked, at Education Week-Teacher. It's quite clear that what the public thinks is charitable and altruistic is often mixed in with for-profit corporations that the fans otherwise loathe.

Zuckerberg is another one telling gullible people he's "giving away" his earned fortune. But it's often thru "for-profit" corporations, like this.....

CNBC -- "When most billionaires give money to charity, they create a foundation or give directly to a not-for-profit company or charitable trust. Zuckerberg is not doing either — he is pledging to someday turn over shares to a private LLC controlled by him and his wife, Priscilla Chan.

Why is Zuckerberg opting for an LLC?

He didn't say in his letter or SEC filings, but trust and estate attorneys who specialize in charitable giving structures said the LLC provides Zuckerberg more flexibility and control over his giving. It also allows the 31-year-old budding philanthropist to change his mind about what he wants to fund and how much he wants to give over his lifetime, making the $45 billion number more like a pledge than a gift.

"It's what's known as an unenforceable promise," said William D. Zabel, partner at Schulte Roth & Zabel. "Who's going to enforce it? They can later decide to give away $45 billion or $5 billion, it's up to them."

The LLC also offers other benefits to Zuckerberg and his wife, which blur the lines between charitable giving, profit and political lobbying.

Nonprofits and foundations, to preserve their special tax status, are restricted in the types and levels of lobbying they can fund. They are also prevented from funding political campaigns. Zuckerberg's LLC will be able to do both — at any level and without the usual disclosures required of not-for-profits."


Personally, I don't care how much they make or "give away" or keep, because I don't believe I'm owed it, since they worked and innovated to make gullible millions of people think they "needed" Windows operating system, and that they "needed" Facebook. If I don't want to be hoodwinked by tycoons like this, I don't buy their product.

If you or I don't want to live in a city (like TV) where developers make millions or billions of dollars building housing and commercial leasing property, well then I guess we'd have to rule out every city and suburb in the country!

If Gates, Zuckerberg, and the other "philanthropists" lied, cheated and stole to get what they have, they will someday meet their Maker and give account to him.

Personally, I think Zuckerberg is putting his billions in this LLC corporation instead of "giving it away", because this way, he can sell it all before his brand becomes worthless in a flash as MySpace did. And he can lobby Congress this way (as a for-profit instead of a 501(c)(3) for example) because of the incomprehensible nest and web that is the U.S. Tax Code.

They do it "because they can". IF they are "greedy", it is greed for power as well as for money/holdings.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/02/mark-zuckerbergs-unusual-method-of-charitable-giving.html

[kilowatt]

I keep seeing an insinuation that Katie Belles was operating in the red. Is this true and where is the proof. I suspect they weren't. Does private business have a right to maximize profits ? Yes. Does private business have ethical responsibilities ? I hope so. I see a case where Katie Belles may have had an ethical responsibility to the residents. It was certainly sold that way. Life style visits including coupons to resident only exclusive club. Those word came out of the sales agents mouths many times during the whining and dining purchase phase. Thus if Katie Belles was not in the red and is maximizing profits can you call it greed ? My opinion - yes. The Developer owns plenty of business' to maximize profits on. Could have saved this controversial one for latter. I do think there was another message about this whole thing but I'll be darned if I'm smart enough to figure it out. I totally agree with you. They do have an ethical respondsibility to the residents. They not only cut the shows in half to make more profit, they cut Katie Belles in half to put more stores in, and that`s not greed?

[kilowatt]

Why do people want to stay and watch the same show all over again? It is basically for the dancing. Maybe I`m just not "over the hill" yet. When we go out we like to go out for a few hours and dance and enjoy ourselves.

[goodtimesintv]

I totally agree with you. They do have an ethical respondsibility to the residents. They not only cut the shows in half to make more profit, they cut Katie Belles in half to put more stores in, and that`s not greed?

How do you know that these efforts to seat more paying customers was not to get them into just "Break Even" status??? If people stay for hours and hours and just buy 1 or 2 drinks, that's not going to pay the bills!

Having been members of private clubs/country clubs before, members see quickly that if few people come and they stay long and they spend very little money, the bills still have to be paid, and the members have to be assessed higher amounts for their portion of the operating costs, and meal/drink prices have to go up a lot. I don't think the long-time fans of Katie Belle's would like that, at all!

[Bonny]

I totally agree with you. They do have an ethical respondsibility to the residents. They not only cut the shows in half to make more profit, they cut Katie Belles in half to put more stores in, and that`s not greed?
Been here almost 16 years. Went to Katie Belles several times a week. Watched people stand so they didn't have to sit and order anything. Take up space, dance all night & leave. Sorry that doesn't pay the bills. Saw "many" people order one drink and a glass of water, add lemon & sweet & low for lemonade. Sorry, that also doesn't pay the bills. The upkeep, the utilities, the servers, the cooks, the entertainment, etc. etc. Again sorry, it didn't pay the bills !!!
Greed ??? It's called business. People go into business to make money. The Villages does not owe us anything. For the amount of money we pay, we have lots to keep us busy & entertained. We have a wonderful life here and we love it. No where would we have so many things to do and so many activities.
If they want to put stores in and make money, so what. They have every right to. They own the Villages. It's their business and they can do what ever they want. They do not have to ask us or get our permission. They have no ethical responsibility that gives us the right to tell them what to do.

If I had a business, I would not ask people how I should run it. It's my business.
Life goes on, things change as it does everywhere in the world.
There are just way to many things to worry about. I'm certainly not going to waste my time worrying about telling other people how they should run their lives or their business.
I'm just going to be happy and enjoy the wonderful life I have here.

[NYGUY]

Been here almost 16 years. Went to Katie Belles several times a week. Watched people stand so they didn't have to sit and order anything. Take up space, dance all night & leave. Sorry that doesn't pay the bills. Saw "many" people order one drink and a glass of water, add lemon & sweet & low for lemonade. Sorry, that also doesn't pay the bills. The upkeep, the utilities, the servers, the cooks, the entertainment, etc. etc. Again sorry, it didn't pay the bills !!!
Greed ??? It's called business. People go into business to make money. The Villages does not owe us anything. For the amount of money we pay, we have lots to keep us busy & entertained. We have a wonderful life here and we love it. No where would we have so many things to do and so many activities.
If they want to put stores in and make money, so what. They have every right to. They own the Villages. It's their business and they can do what ever they want. They do not have to ask us or get our permission. They have no ethical responsibility that gives us the right to tell them what to do.

If I had a business, I would not ask people how I should run it. It's my business.
Life goes on, things change as it does everywhere in the world.
There are just way to many things to worry about. I'm certainly not going to waste my time worrying about telling other people how they should run their lives or their business.
I'm just going to be happy and enjoy the wonderful life I have here.

:BigApplause::BigApplause:

[tomwed]

Look at the article I linked, at Education Week-Teacher. It's quite clear that what the public thinks is charitable and altruistic is often mixed in with for-profit corporations that the fans otherwise loathe.

Zuckerberg is another one telling gullible people he's "giving away" his earned fortune. But it's often thru "for-profit" corporations, like this.....

CNBC -- "When most billionaires give money to charity, they create a foundation or give directly to a not-for-profit company or charitable trust. Zuckerberg is not doing either — he is pledging to someday turn over shares to a private LLC controlled by him and his wife, Priscilla Chan.

Why is Zuckerberg opting for an LLC?

He didn't say in his letter or SEC filings, but trust and estate attorneys who specialize in charitable giving structures said the LLC provides Zuckerberg more flexibility and control over his giving. It also allows the 31-year-old budding philanthropist to change his mind about what he wants to fund and how much he wants to give over his lifetime, making the $45 billion number more like a pledge than a gift.

"It's what's known as an unenforceable promise," said William D. Zabel, partner at Schulte Roth & Zabel. "Who's going to enforce it? They can later decide to give away $45 billion or $5 billion, it's up to them."

The LLC also offers other benefits to Zuckerberg and his wife, which blur the lines between charitable giving, profit and political lobbying.

Nonprofits and foundations, to preserve their special tax status, are restricted in the types and levels of lobbying they can fund. They are also prevented from funding political campaigns. Zuckerberg's LLC will be able to do both — at any level and without the usual disclosures required of not-for-profits."


Personally, I don't care how much they make or "give away" or keep, because I don't believe I'm owed it, since they worked and innovated to make gullible millions of people think they "needed" Windows operating system, and that they "needed" Facebook. If I don't want to be hoodwinked by tycoons like this, I don't buy their product.

If you or I don't want to live in a city (like TV) where developers make millions or billions of dollars building housing and commercial leasing property, well then I guess we'd have to rule out every city and suburb in the country!

If Gates, Zuckerberg, and the other "philanthropists" lied, cheated and stole to get what they have, they will someday meet their Maker and give account to him.

Personally, I think Zuckerberg is putting his billions in this LLC corporation instead of "giving it away", because this way, he can sell it all before his brand becomes worthless in a flash as MySpace did. And he can lobby Congress this way (as a for-profit instead of a 501(c)(3) for example) because of the incomprehensible nest and web that is the U.S. Tax Code.

They do it "because they can". IF they are "greedy", it is greed for power as well as for money/holdings.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/02/mark-zuckerbergs-unusual-method-of-charitable-giving.html
They are giving away most of their fortunes to help others. I don't think Gates or Zuckerberg ever imagined they would be worth billions. Think about it. What did they do that's so special? Flemming invented penicillin. If all was fair, that guy should be worth 10 Zuckerbergs. I think they realize that and that's why they are giving back.
Take a look at what Gates donated
Foundation Fact Sheet - Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Information/Foundation-Factsheet)
Zuckerbergs Facebook shares are worth more than $45 billion — 99% is going to charitable purposes.
And you feel like it's a bad idea?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/technology/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-charity.html?_r=0

Thank-goodness they don't listen to you. They may actually help someone.

[tomwed]

I liked the way the old McDonalds use to look. With those big Golden arches and all that stainless steel and the sign that kept changing with how many hamburgers were sold.

Opinions are OK. It doesn't hurt anyone [most of the time]. I don't think I'm telling anyone how to run their business. But if I owned a McDonalds..............................

I think it's healthy for us to keep thinking, to keep trouble shooting and brainstorming. I don't want to accept the world the way it is and not ask questions or explore new ideas. I don't equate that with not enjoying life.

You didn't want your kids to be that way, did you? How would things get invented or improved?

[Marathon Man]

:BigApplause::BigApplause:

:BigApplause::BigApplause:

Adding my applause to Bonny's comment.

The deed is done. Moving on = living life. Please, live life. Find happiness. It is all around us.

[Bosoxfan]

Those using the word greed about the developer are probably the same folks that share a dinner at a restaurant. They don't order drinks just water with a lemon then proceed to tip the server based on their bill instead of tipping for the service they received for two people even though they only ordered one dinner. Greedy? I think not. Cheap...definitely!!

[kilowatt]

Been here almost 16 years. Went to Katie Belles several times a week. Watched people stand so they didn't have to sit and order anything. Take up space, dance all night & leave. Sorry that doesn't pay the bills. Saw "many" people order one drink and a glass of water, add lemon & sweet & low for lemonade. Sorry, that also doesn't pay the bills. The upkeep, the utilities, the servers, the cooks, the entertainment, etc. etc. Again sorry, it didn't pay the bills !!!
Greed ??? It's called business. People go into business to make money. The Villages does not owe us anything. For the amount of money we pay, we have lots to keep us busy & entertained. We have a wonderful life here and we love it. No where would we have so many things to do and so many activities.
If they want to put stores in and make money, so what. They have every right to. They own the Villages. It's their business and they can do what ever they want. They do not have to ask us or get our permission. They have no ethical responsibility that gives us the right to tell them what to do.

If I had a business, I would not ask people how I should run it. It's my business.
Life goes on, things change as it does everywhere in the world.
There are just way to many things to worry about. I'm certainly not going to waste my time worrying about telling other people how they should run their lives or their business.
I'm just going to be happy and enjoy the wonderful life I have here.We`ve lived here many years as well. You may be right on what people were spending or drinking; I didn`t scrutinize or worry what other people were spending, I was there to have a good time and not to worry if The Villages were making money. If I had a business I would ask the customers if they had any suggestions to make my business better. We love our life here and we do make the best of it!

[rustyp]

Two points
1. I have not seen any posts stating how wonderful over the top the new Katie Belle's is. I have not seen it thus no comment.
2. One side of this discussion strongly suggest The Developer has no ethical responsibilities to the people who he sold houses to and every right to maximize profits legally. I also agree But food for thought:

What is corporate ethical responsibility ? One possible definition maybe:
Corporate ethical responsibility is the continuing commitment by business to behave in a manner that fosters economic development while improving the quality of life of the workforce and their families as well as of the local community and society at large.

Martin Shkreli, the CEO who raised the price of a lifesaving drug for a rare disease, from $13.50 to $750 a dose, so his company could maximize profits. I say not ethical but legal.
Martin got arrested for a ponzi scheme that raised money to purchase the drug company. He did not get arrested for raising the price of the drug.

Ultimately your company will pay a price if it continually does not behave ethically be it lose of customers or employees or call enough attention to yourself the skeleton in the closet search begins.

[jetro]

For the first "show" the band said they would keep the music low for the diners. Actual dance time was only about an hour.

[tomwed]

Ultimately your company will pay a price if it continually does not behave ethically be it lose of customers or employees or call enough attention to yourself the skeleton in the closet search begins.
What unethical behavior has occurred? Do you know a better to place to retire?

[rustyp]

What unethical behavior has occurred? Do you know a better to place to retire?

I was just making some of the blind faith defenders of the throne aware that ethical behavior is much different than legal behavior. Where is the line. My guess is it's a lot like beauty - In the eye of the beholder. What you think is ethical I may think is not. As far as knowing a better place to live ? I don't know of a better place. However I don't stop looking just in case there is or becomes a need.

This is getting to be and old subject with out a lot of value add. Point is not one post on how over the top great the new Katie Belle's is. The defense is the developer has a right to do as they please. I agree.

[goodtimesintv]

.......Martin Shkreli, the CEO who raised the price of a lifesaving drug for a rare disease, from $13.50 to $750 a dose, so his company could maximize profits. I say not ethical but legal.
Martin got arrested for a ponzi scheme that raised money to purchase the drug company. He did not get arrested for raising the price of the drug......

Ultimately your company will pay a price if it continually does not behave ethically be it lose of customers or employees or call enough attention to yourself the skeleton in the closet search begins.

By citing that unusually outlandish, charlatan example, you're lumping the charlatan and TV developers together. There is NO comparison.

Firstly, KB's is not a lifesaving product.

Secondly, if it were, it would not be something needed by nor geared toward everybody in the community. It would only be of interest to a small fraction of the population with that condition/disease--amongst various meds prescribed for it.

Thirdly, any price increase at KB's is going to be mitigated by an improved venue, seating, food quality and atmosphere. TV knows how much people here are willing to pay and none of the country clubs here have outlandish prices.

KB's needed some new life injected into it and that's what they have done. To those who loathe businesses making a profit and who call that 'GREED': Get over it.

[rustyp]

By citing that unusually outlandish, charlatan example, you're lumping the charlatan and TV developers together. There is NO comparison.

Firstly, KB's is not a lifesaving product.

Secondly, if it were, it would not be something needed by nor geared toward everybody in the community. It would only be of interest to a small fraction of the population with that condition/disease--amongst various meds prescribed for it.

Thirdly, any price increase at KB's is going to be mitigated by an improved venue, seating, food quality and atmosphere. TV knows how much people here are willing to pay and none of the country clubs here have outlandish prices.

KB's needed some new life injected into it and that's what they have done. Get over it.

If you read the post I never put the developer in the same category as the charlatan. I was making a point that the developer has the right to do what they want. Correct legally. It was purposely an outlandish example to illustrate difference between legal and ethical.

Get over it ? I was never under it. My choice in this particular case is go or not go to Katie Belle's. That's for me to decide no one else.

But I assure you I am over this now

[goodtimesintv]

If you read the post I never put the developer in the same category as the charlatan. I was making a point that the developer has the right to do what they want. Correct legally. It was purposely an outlandish example to illustrate difference between legal and ethical.

Get over it ? I was never under it. My choice in this particular case is go or not go to Katie Belle's. That's for me to decide no one else.

But I assure you I am over this now

I should have said "To those who loathe businesses making a profit and who call that 'GREED'", get over it. Will edit that. Was not intended for you specifically.

[dillywho]

#1..It's called business.

#2..Business does not equal greed.

#3..Even if greed were in the equation, why would our amenity fees, etc. be as reasonable as they are?

Seems like people from all walks of life just have a tendency to get spoiled and change just does not come easy.

For all the naysayers, if the new Katie Belle's flops, are you being personally financially hurt or are the Developers? I don't know of anyone else here who has taken the chance, bought the land and then developed it, and hoped that it would succeed. We all have choices which businesses to patronize or not, just as we all had the choice to move here in the first place. We were told about the fees, restrictions, etc. at the time we put our names on the dotted lines of our contract. We knew exactly what was what. If we made a mistake, then it was ours....not The Villages. It is the same thing for them if KB is not successful; their mistake, not ours. (By the way, we didn't make a mistake.) Is everything perfect? Of course not, but show me anywhere else that comes as close.:clap2:

The ONLY thing they did not include in the listing of all the various activities available to us is the one MAJOR activity of which many of us must partake....going from doctor to doctor to doctor! Not my favorite, but the only one I consider mandatory!:22yikes:

[graciegirl]

#1..It's called business.

#2..Business does not equal greed.

#3..Even if greed were in the equation, why would our amenity fees, etc. be as reasonable as they are?

Seems like people from all walks of life just have a tendency to get spoiled and change just does not come easy.

For all the naysayers, if the new Katie Belle's flops, are you being personally financially hurt or are the Developers? I don't know of anyone else here who has taken the chance, bought the land and then developed it, and hoped that it would succeed. We all have choices which businesses to patronize or not, just as we all had the choice to move here in the first place. We were told about the fees, restrictions, etc. at the time we put our names on the dotted lines of our contract. We knew exactly what was what. If we made a mistake, then it was ours....not The Villages. It is the same thing for them if KB is not successful; their mistake, not ours. (By the way, we didn't make a mistake.) Is everything perfect? Of course not, but show me anywhere else that comes as close.:clap2:

The ONLY thing they did not include in the listing of all the various activities available to us is the one MAJOR activity of which many of us must partake....going from doctor to doctor to doctor! Not my favorite, but the only one I consider mandatory!:22yikes:



Excellent post. EXCELLENT post.

[mulligan]

The one business principle I have never seen used on this forum applies, IMHO. "Grow or die" seems to apply to all businesses (think MacDonald's menu).

[kittygilchrist]

Heavens to Betsy, what a messy thread!
His name is Gutfeld, not Outfield.

Time: 7:00pm. Admission: $40-$150. Age restrictions: All Ages. Box office: 352-750-5411. Address: 1051 Main Street. Venue phone: 352-751-7799. Join us for an engaging and entertaining evening: “Town Hall with Greg Gutfeld and Dana Perino” as they discuss valuable insights from both of their New York Times best sellers with the added bonus of Grammy award winning singer/songwriter Larry Gatlin for a few of his best-known tunes and some timely humor. This Town Hall event will combine Greg’s razor-sharp wit with Dana’s no-nonsense political savvy to share their thoughts on the upcoming presidential primaries, news of the day, and culminating with a Q & A session. The same positive chemistry that makes Greg roll his eyes and Dana giggle on “The Five” every weekday afternoon at 5:00 PM EST (FOX News Channel), will offer an intimate and entertaining evening of interaction at The Sharon Center. Related post. Buy Tickets More information

[Chi-Town]

Heavens to Betsy, what a messy thread!
His name is Gutfeld, not Outfield.

Time: 7:00pm. Admission: $40-$150. Age restrictions: All Ages. Box office: 352-750-5411. Address: 1051 Main Street. Venue phone: 352-751-7799. Join us for an engaging and entertaining evening: “Town Hall with Greg Gutfeld and Dana Perino” as they discuss valuable insights from both of their New York Times best sellers with the added bonus of Grammy award winning singer/songwriter Larry Gatlin for a few of his best-known tunes and some timely humor. This Town Hall event will combine Greg’s razor-sharp wit with Dana’s no-nonsense political savvy to share their thoughts on the upcoming presidential primaries, news of the day, and culminating with a Q & A session. The same positive chemistry that makes Greg roll his eyes and Dana giggle on “The Five” every weekday afternoon at 5:00 PM EST (FOX News Channel), will offer an intimate and entertaining evening of interaction at The Sharon Center. Related post. Buy Tickets More information
Are they going to Katie Belle's which would somewhat tie into this thread.

[tomwed]

Are they going to Katie Belle's which would somewhat tie into this thread.
Well, if they do go to Katie Belles, I'll bet they would have enjoyed the old Katie Belles more. [insert winking emoticon reading a New York Times best seller]

[brovelli]

Hi.. Went to Katie Belles for 6:30 dinner on Sat. night. The lady taking reservations on the phone was far from kind and friendly, but finally got it straightened out ..(3:30-5:30 is open seating for their happy hour, limited menu, 1/2 price drinks,)
If you are doing a Villagers reservation, you can make a reservation for a DINING TABLE for $3.00/ person, on a credit card. (non-residents pay $5.00 ea.) The show table thing is closer to the stage and more expensive.. depending on the entertainment..
Anyway.
When we checked in, we took notice of the decore and seating... beautifully done (no surprise, the Villages does it right all the time with regards to theme.)
Also, we discovered the best tables are where the original seating overlooking the old Katie Belle stage...(People are calling this the sunrise and sunset tables.)
The tables are not tight, by the windows, and far enough from the stage not to have the music distract you from conversation. (The sunset tables actually have a tv hung to see the band.)
We had a wonderful meal (although it is not inexpensive..but very very good.) Service was excellent. I was prepared not to like it (We did not love the Cattle baron rest.) but we were pleasantly surprised. We look forward to going again.

[Skip]

Hi.. Went to Katie Belles for 6:30 dinner on Sat. night. The lady taking reservations on the phone was far from kind and friendly, but finally got it straightened out ..(3:30-5:30 is open seating for their happy hour, limited menu, 1/2 price drinks,)
If you are doing a Villagers reservation, you can make a reservation for a DINING TABLE for $3.00/ person, on a credit card. (non-residents pay $5.00 ea.) The show table thing is closer to the stage and more expensive.. depending on the entertainment..
Anyway.
When we checked in, we took notice of the decore and seating... beautifully done (no surprise, the Villages does it right all the time with regards to theme.)
Also, we discovered the best tables are where the original seating overlooking the old Katie Belle stage...(People are calling this the sunrise and sunset tables.)
The tables are not tight, by the windows, and far enough from the stage not to have the music distract you from conversation. (The sunset tables actually have a tv hung to see the band.)
We had a wonderful meal (although it is not inexpensive..but very very good.) Service was excellent. I was prepared not to like it (We did not love the Cattle baron rest.) but we were pleasantly surprised. We look forward to going again.

So it costs two couples, $12 total to reserve a single table for 4. Non-residents would pay $20 for that same table. Wow! That'll keep the riff-raff out.

Skip

[outlaw]

So it costs two couples, $12 total to reserve a single table for 4. Non-residents would pay $20 for that same table. Wow! That'll keep the riff-raff out.

Skip

"TV, where every millionaire can live like a...well, a millionaire.":smiley:

[tomwed]

"TV, where every millionaire can live like a...well, a millionaire.":smiley:
That's true. There are places to spend, but you don't need to, do you?

That's the Village difference.

[TomOB]

This post has outlived it's useful time, in my humble opinion.

[tomwed]

This post has outlived it's useful time, in my humble opinion.
Humble opinions are never typed out.