Who is at fault?

[MnGirl]

Turtle crossing CR466 (no shoulder). Driver stops, gets out of car to help turtle. Another driver rear-ends stopped car. Is it okay to stop and help wildlife, when you can't secure your own car? Besides the turtle, who's at fault? Does anyone know a law that would pertain to this? :shrug:

[graciegirl]

I believe what I have always been told;


When you rear end somebody, it's always your fault for failing to keep an assured clear distance.


However....As much as most of us would have tried to avoid hitting the turtle, I am not in agreement with stopping your car in the middle of the street.


Tough one.


If it were a child or a person...yes, stop. But pull over so you can help and not cause another accident.

[Cisco Kid]

There is never an OK reason to hit the car in front of you .

[Sandtrap328]

Is this a hypothetical question, a real situation, or a near miss situation?

For a definitive answer, contact the Sheriff's office.

[rubicon]

Who's at fault? If you mean legally it will take more than this forum to resolve the question. Florida is a comparative negligent state. what you describe is a driver who made a sudden stop reacting not to avoid hitting an animal but to assist the animal. We have another driver apparently not driving a safe clear distance.

My initial reaction to this is that I suspect LOE charged both legally (50%) negligent? My personal opinion is the driver who stopped to assist the turtle used extremely poor judgement (I'm being polite) and should be found primarily responsible for setting this accident in motion. the pivotal question is how the LOE viewed the turtle loving drivers actions. Its one thing to pull your car left or right to avoid hitting the animal quite another to stop to assist it. Experts will tell you for example it better to hit a deer than to try and avoid it because you are going to probably end up with greater consequences. Indeed the obits are replete with drivers who attempted to avoid hitting an animal and ended up hitting a tree, etc and died . I opinion, others can decide

Personal Best Regards:

[MnGirl]

Is this a hypothetical question, a real situation, or a near miss situation?

For a definitive answer, contact the Sheriff's office.

Hypothetical question. I am an animal lover myself, and have seen turtles crossing, but never felt it was safe enough to help them. Spring is coming and I have seen people stop more than once. I was just looking for someone to have an answer.

[Sandtrap328]

One more thing to add on to my previous post - IF you do stop to pick up a turtle, be CAREFUL!!

The softshell turtle has a very long neck and can turn easily to give a very nasty bite. Same with a snapping turtle. One guy I know from Iowa had a finger bit off by a snapping turtle he was trying to help across the road. :shrug:

[rubicon]

Is this a hypothetical question, a real situation, or a near miss situation?

For a definitive answer, contact the Sheriff's office.

Hi Sandtrap: My --years experiencing investigating you will find few if any police, lawyers, insurance investigator etc ever give you a definitive answer in response to a hypothetical question. some would never give you any resposne at all except to say ask me when it happens....and rightly so
as every accident has viarables

[dbussone]

Who's at fault? If you mean legally it will take more than this forum to resolve the question. Florida is a comparative negligent state. what you describe is a driver who made a sudden stop reacting not to avoid hitting an animal but to assist the animal. We have another driver apparently not driving a safe clear distance.

My initial reaction to this is that I suspect LOE charged both legally (50%) negligent? My personal opinion is the driver who stopped to assist the turtle used extremely poor judgement (I'm being polite) and should be found primarily responsible for setting this accident in motion. the pivotal question is how the LOE viewed the turtle loving drivers actions. Its one thing to pull your car left or right to avoid hitting the animal quite another to stop to assist it. Experts will tell you for example it better to hit a deer than to try and avoid it because you are going to probably end up with greater consequences. Indeed the obits are replete with drivers who attempted to avoid hitting an animal and ended up hitting a tree, etc and died . I opinion, others can decide

Personal Best Regards:


This is a very tough one. Last week I was on Pinellas heading to Winn Dixie. Near one of the golf courses 3 Sandhill Cranes started to cross the street.

I stopped and put my flashers on. The cars in both directions also stopped. This is easy on a 30 MPH street, but I wonder what I would have done on 466A.

Depending on traffic I might have tried to go around them.

[bagboy]

Though it seems like a noble gesture, risking injury or even death to yourself and/or another driver to save a turtle just doesn't make any sense to me.

[theorem painter]

My personal opinion (that holds no weight) would be that a large percentage of the responsibility would be on the car that rear ended the stopped car but part of the responsibility would certainly fall on the car that stopped in the middle of the road to help an animal.

[kcrazorbackfan]

As a retired LEO, both parties are at fault - the vehicle that stopped for improper parking/impeding the flow of traffic; the 2nd vehicle for inattention/following too close.

[MikeV]

Would it have made a difference if the car stopped due to mechanical failure? You rear end someone --- you are at fault.

[kcrazorbackfan]

A judgement call at that point, as really all tickets are that are written. A real harda** LEO can write a ticket to a broken down car for "operation of an unsafe vehicle".

It was my judgement that if I got called out of bed in the middle of the night to work a wreck, someone was getting a ticket. :laugh::laugh:

[Carl in Tampa]

Turtle crossing CR466 (no shoulder). Driver stops, gets out of car to help turtle. Another driver rear-ends stopped car. Is it okay to stop and help wildlife, when you can't secure your own car? Besides the turtle, who's at fault? Does anyone know a law that would pertain to this? :shrug:

If a driver stops and gets out of car on the traveled portion of the roadway he/she has committed a traffic offense. Maybe two; if the engine was left running then that is a separate offense; obstructing the highway is the first.

As you describe it, the second car is not "following too close" because the first driver has had time to get out of the car before it is struck. I'm not sure why you think the stopped/parked car would be struck, but assuming it happened then the second driver might be charged with some offense related to inattention to driving. Otherwise, why would he/she strike a stopped car?

[2BNTV]

My two cents is:

The first car gets a ticket for ?????????

The second car is always wrong for hitting someone, in the rear.

[goodtimesintv]

I've actually seen this happen twice here (and nowhere else in the country in my 45 years of driving). I'm glad the o.p. brought it up.

One instance I came upon was on Canal Street (no shoulder, and she stopped the car and took up the diamond bike/cart lane and part of the car lane, so actually, all motorists and bike riders were blocked). I couldn't believe she did this as I have seen what snapping turtles can do to human hands and toes. She left her brain at home.

She was lucky I and other motorists saw her from far behind and knew we had to slow down and stop.

Second instance I came upon was about 3 months ago on 466 headed westbound, nearing the entrances on the right to the farms/estates where the developers (I've heard) live. This one stopped in the driveway, got out, and picked up the turtle and leisurely made a show of carrying the turtle across the road. Given the 45 mph traffic, she left her brain at home, too. Motorists were coming along fast and all had to stop in both directions, all lanes.

If anyone thinks a turtle is that important, they're losing sight of the value of human life. I love animals and wildlife, but they are not equal to human life.

[The Buckeyes]

No matter the opinions, assured clear distance is always the determining factor.

[CWGUY]

If a driver stops and gets out of car on the traveled portion of the roadway he/she has committed a traffic offense. Maybe two; if the engine was left running then that is a separate offense; obstructing the highway is the first.

As you describe it, the second car is not "following too close" because the first driver has had time to get out of the car before it is struck. I'm not sure why you think the stopped/parked car would be struck, but assuming it happened then the second driver might be charged with some offense related to inattention to driving. Otherwise, why would he/she strike a stopped car?

State Police: Trooper hit car after man abandoned it on I-890 - Times Union (http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/State-Police-Trooper-hit-car-after-man-abandoned-6759139.php)

[HimandMe]

Compassionate people stop and help turtles and wounded animals all the time. I wouldn't like that to stop but not when putting themselves or other drivers at real risk. I agree with The Buckeyes.

[asianthree]

Person not see a stopped car. For whatever reason it's not ok to hit it. So it's ok to run into a stopped car that has Stopped to assist a turtle, what if it was a dog, what if it was a person. I'm confused I thought you Always stopped if there was a car not moving ahead. :shrug: how would you know why the person had stopped. Running into the back of them just seems stupid maybe just not paying attention.

[Taltarzac725]

Driver who stopped for ducks gets jail, 10-year driving ban (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/12/17/canada-ducklings-highway-fatal-court/20513845/)

This is a sad story out of Canada.

People should show some common sense when stopping like this to help wildlife.

There was a turtle crossing CR101 a few weeks ago and it was in a spot where you cannot see what is ahead of you because of a rise in the road. So I did not stop. I did watch the road for a while from Doggie Doo Run Run and did see another driver coming from the other direction-- who probably had a better view of the road ahead, stop and pick up the turtle. There was no one behind him, There had been a few cars behind me and I just hoped that the turtle would make it.

I have had to stop before because of people helping ducks cross the road as well as rescuing turtles.

[SCasey]

If anyone thinks a turtle is that important, they're losing sight of the value of human life. I love animals and wildlife, but they are not equal to human life.

As a former firefighter/EMT in rural Maine, I can tell you I've seen many instances where a human life was taken because the driver veered off the road to avoid a deer or some other animal. I will attempt to not hit the animal, but will not put my life or those of my passengers in danger.

[spring_chicken]

A judgement call at that point, as really all tickets are that are written. A real harda** LEO can write a ticket to a broken down car for "operation of an unsafe vehicle".

It was my judgement that if I got called out of bed in the middle of the night to work a wreck, someone was getting a ticket. :laugh::laugh:

Why in the world would you be called out of bed to work a wreck? Was this a one cop town? Mayberry?

[CWGUY]

Why in the world would you be called out of bed to work a wreck? Was this a one cop town? Mayberry?

:shrug: He didn't say he was home!! :police:

[HoosierPa]

Would it have made a difference if the car stopped due to mechanical failure? You rear end someone --- you are at fault.

Great point. Not everything in life comes down to what the written law is (especially considering the lack of judgment of some of our less than wonderful politicians who write the laws)
I say if there is a question, always error on the side of Life !
If the driver was paying attention, he/she would not have hit the rear of a stopped car. I would have hoped the stopped car had turned on his / her flashers.

[rubicon]

This is a very tough one. Last week I was on Pinellas heading to Winn Dixie. Near one of the golf courses 3 Sandhill Cranes started to cross the street.

I stopped and put my flashers on. The cars in both directions also stopped. This is easy on a 30 MPH street, but I wonder what I would have done on 466A.

Depending on traffic I might have tried to go around them.

dbussone: That is a common scenario. In Minneapolis/St Paul like many cities I am sure, Canadian geese strut across interstates with their little goslings. You would expect to hear the continuing percussion of metal crashing but God's hand direct traffic well. However the rules of the road clearly state a driver's obligation to maintain safe clear distance.

Personal Best Regards:

[rubicon]

If a driver stops and gets out of car on the traveled portion of the roadway he/she has committed a traffic offense. Maybe two; if the engine was left running then that is a separate offense; obstructing the highway is the first.

As you describe it, the second car is not "following too close" because the first driver has had time to get out of the car before it is struck. I'm not sure why you think the stopped/parked car would be struck, but assuming it happened then the second driver might be charged with some offense related to inattention to driving. Otherwise, why would he/she strike a stopped car?

Aah Carl You see why I wrote that an investigator, et al would not answer a hypothetical question. The OP does not tell us how long she was stopped only that she stopped to get out to...... And even if the car was stopped for sometime the LOE could still cite the second driver for a number of contributing factors if s/he plowed into the stopped vehicle. Clearly contributory negligence applies in most of the scenario's listed on this thread . What is still undecided is the comparative fault
(ie % of negligence) attributed to each owner/driver

Personal Best Regards:

[dbussone]

dbussone: That is a common scenario. In Minneapolis/St Paul like many cities I am sure, Canadian geese strut across interstates with their little goslings. You would expect to hear the continuing percussion of metal crashing but God's hand direct traffic well. However the rules of the road clearly state a driver's obligation to maintain safe clear distance.



Personal Best Regards:


I understand and appreciate the education.

Thank you, Rubicon.

[goodtimesintv]

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodtimesintv:
If anyone thinks a turtle is that important, they're losing sight of the value of human life. I love animals and wildlife, but they are not equal to human life.

As a former firefighter/EMT in rural Maine, I can tell you I've seen many instances where a human life was taken because the driver veered off the road to avoid a deer or some other animal. I will attempt to not hit the animal, but will not put my life or those of my passengers in danger.

Thank you.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Why in the world would you be called out of bed to work a wreck? Was this a one cop town? Mayberry?

No; I was a State Trooper in a rural part of the state; some nights I was on call for 3 counties. If I had the 6pm-3am shift, I was on call until 6am.

[spring_chicken]

No; I was a State Trooper in a rural part of the state; some nights I was on call for 3 counties. If I had the 6pm-3am shift, I was on call until 6am.

Wow, that state is poorer than Mississippi! Glad to know where not to be in the middle of the night!