Penn State Nittany Lions Talk

[tkret]

Just wondering if this will be Joe's final season or has he committed to next year.

[Cassie325]

Just wondering if this will be Joe's final season or has he committed to next year.

Cousin...why did I not know you were a FAN....assumingly an alumni...

I used to work there and live there.....

Our friends you are celebrating TGing with....he is an alumni of PSU!!!

SEE....a VERY VERY VERY SMALL world....of love....

OK...enough hi-jacking....Joe has been thinking of retiring for YEARS....he just loves it and keeps coming back....kind of like me and TOTV!!! Not comparing myself to Joe....just our love for something good!!

[tkret]

Cousin...why did I not know you were a FAN....assumingly an alumni...


OK...enough hi-jacking....Joe has been thinking of retiring for YEARS....he just loves it and keeps coming back....kind of like me and TOTV!!! Not comparing myself to Joe....just our love for something good!!


No, not alumnus ... just enjoy all college football. As a kid, used to sneak into the Columbia football games at Baker Field. Half the fun was trying to avoid the Pinkies (Pinkerton Private Security) that the university hired.

Alumnus! That's funny... heck, I still haven't finished learning my 3rd Grade Reader....but I DID stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

[Cassie325]

;)OH DEAR.....good thing I luv ya!!!


:beer3:


:coolsmiley:


:faint:

[DickY]

JoePa has a year to year contract. If you go by tendencies he'll be there next year.

[Cassie325]

JoePa has a year to year contract. If you go by tendencies he'll be there next year.


I agree....he will be there till God says he is done...that is just my guess....he loves what he does...he is good at what he does....and everyone loves him....

[MSNPA]

I'm a Penn State alumni. I must admit I am not a fan of any team, however I am so proud of Penn State and their wins this season. My husband always tells me they just play cupcakes, but last night proved him wrong. Plus it is amazing how Joe keeps going and going.

[Floridagal]

Just got back yesterday from spending 4 days at Penn State with my daughter (she is an alumni and now lives and works for Penn State) and her family and the place went wild when Penn State won.

[Blondie]

My nephew just graduated from PSU; however, my Son-in-Law is from Ohio and his family has many Ohio State grads.:shrug:.......I'm conflicted

[rshoffer]

WE ARE.... PENN STATE!:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[tpop1]

I feel bad for all Penn State alumni who will suffer with the publicity over Sandusky's escapades.

The question of the day is how long Joe Pa will last.

Will he resign:

Before tomorrow's news conference,
At the news conference,
Before the next game on Sat.,
Before the end of the year, or
Will he last out the year?

Kim Jones of the YES Network, who is a Penn St. alum, worked sports there a few years after graduation was on with Mike Francesa and she was livid about what went out ....her voice was quivering.

A poignant quote from her was, "Well we certainly ceded the high ground with this one!"

[2BNTV]

I don't think Joe Pa will resign. I think the board of directors should fire him.
I don't say this to be mean but Penn State needs to put this behind them as quickly as possible. What a scandal!!!!!!

IMHO - Joe Pa should have followed-up on this report and do the right thing. He didn't and lost his moral compass. The welfare of a human being is much more important than wins and losses or protecting an associate.

These kids that were affected will never be the same and shame on everyone who allowed this linger for ten plus years and should have put an end to this immediately.

Joe Pa who was looked at "what was right with college football" is really on the wrong side of the line on this one.

Joe Pa lost his legacy and may not be convicted of any wrong doing but he is morally wrong.!!!!!

It's all about the kids being hurt and being affected by a predator.

I have to go now as I am getting angry thinking about this.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

And we thought Ohio State was having problems! Pales in comparison to what Penn State is having to deal with.

Bill :)

[ilovetv]

College football has become a religion. Making one's own god(s) never succeeds.

[Mikeod]

AP is reporting that he will retire at the end of the season.

Sad.

My experiences in many organizations make it difficult for me to blame him as harshly as many others have for not following up on the allegations he brought to the administration. If he had trust in those above him, even if misplaced as it appears, he may have been confident that the proper things would be done.

And, no, I'm not a Penn State alumnus.

[PennBF]

The question is "what if it was his son or grandson that was being molested".?
Darn right he would have called the police when he was first told!! He should
be fired and anyone else on the know that it happened or was going on. It
may be that the Exec's at Penn State asked him to keep it quiet but that is
no excuse. He is as much to blame as anyone who was told or knew including the many on his staff. There would have hell to pay if any of those had their
children or grandchildren involved. Fire him now!!:rant-rave:

[2BNTV]

Several more thoughts on this subject.
1. At one time, Joe Pa was the most powerful man on the campus but I think the board of directors will fire him over this scandal to move forward.
2. It is sad that after 45 years of exemplary behavior, (minus the years this indcident should have been reported immediately), that Joe Pa has this tremendous scandal to deal with. Not in my wildest dreams I would have thought this would happen.
3. It's all about the money for some people. 50 million a year the college football program brings into the university.
4. As a father and grandfather, I find this scandal to be revollting in the way the university officials tried to sweep it under the rug and protect the university and or colleague. They should reflect on what did they in their time spent in jail.

People in Happy Valley are not too happy anymore.

Penn State has lost it's moral high ground.

[tpop1]

Poingnant piece on Grantland.com by Penn State guy Michael Weintreb..

In regards to Joe Pa being the benovalent dictator-

Best quote ever by writer, "One of the central truths of human nature- when you brush up against a truly powerful force, it is never quite as benovalent as you imagined it. In order to acquire power, you have to be a little ruthless!"

_amen

How many boys did Sandusky rape, fondle, assult after the 2002 incident - how many on campus?

Reading the Grand Jury report gets the blood boiling.

[2BNTV]

joe must go.

[collie1228]

I think everyone who knows anything about this story is shocked/angered/disappointed on so many levels. I'm really not a big fan of Maureen Dowd of the New York Times, but her column today puts it all in a nutshell. Cudos to Maureen on this one.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/opinion/dowd-personal-foul-at-penn.html?hp

[graciegirl]

I am sick about this. I am not a Penn State Alumnus but I really looked up to Joe Pa.

I hate when my idols crash.

But I hate more to find out about human behavior that is deviant and more prevalent than I ever dreamed.

And I hate to think of the victims.

[BogeyBoy]

Per CNN he will retire at the end of the season. (Statement made today.)

[chuckinca]

He said he would retire at the end of the season. Did the Board of Trustees agree?


.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

As an aside, the PSU president is reported to be gone by the end of the day:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=nfp-20111109_report_penn_state_president_will_be_gone_ by_end_of_day

Bill :)

[2BNTV]

He said he would retire at the end of the season. Did the Board of Trustees agree?


.

I used to think very highly of Joe Pa but I read an article that he was lamentening about "hindsight", Sorry, Joe, tell the kids about it.

Joe had the most power on the PSU campus. It's one thing when the dictator wants to stay or is there going to be junta?

I tend to agree with you and the board may have a different agenda.

Stay tuned

[blaZen]

Didn't take them long to toss Joe Pa under the bus.

[De Lis]

"Retire at the end of the season" and not TODAY...geez, the Board is a joke. Apparently they just want that last win.

Well, we will be hearing about this for a long time when they all go through civil court.

[collie1228]

Funny (funny strange, not funny ha ha) how Jo Pa was supposed to be the most powerful person in Happy Valley, but when he tried to have his weekly press conference yesterday, the university president had it cancelled. Guess Joe wasn't so powerful after all. They can't let him coach the team this weekend. He's toast.

[GTTPF]

It's a sad day for Penn state and especially for the victims of this tragedy. Joe Pa built a lifetime building a legacy and destroyed his reputation by making a stupid decision not to contact the police. After he saw that it was not being done by the university, he should have done it himself. That is the morally right thing to do. I have always liked and respected both Penn state and Joe Pa but now, shame on them. It makes me sick to think that they feel that their athletic program is more important than human decency and the law. I hope that the victims are able to recover from this tragedy.

[2BNTV]

It's a sad day for Penn state and especially for the victims of this tragedy. Joe Pa built a lifetime building a legacy and destroyed his reputation by making a stupid decision not to contact the police. After he saw that it was not being done by the university, he should have done it himself. That is the morally right thing to do. I have always liked and respected both Penn state and Joe Pa but now, shame on them. It makes me sick to think that they feel that their athletic program is more important than human decency and the law. I hope that the victims are able to recover from this tragedy.

Great post. Short and to the point. :BigApplause:

[bimmertl]

Didn't take them long to toss Joe Pa under the bus.

Joe knew of serious allegations in 2002. So if 9 years is not a long time than it didn't take long.

Of course during that time period of Holy Joe's inaction, additional children were molested.

Nice legacy!

[TednRobin]

I am a PSU Alumni, I feel Joe, Spanier and McQuery should be gone before nights end. Centre Daily Times reports that Sandusky was seen in the PSU sports facility as late as last week, no excuse for any of them IMHO.

[ilovetv]

Joe knew of serious allegations in 2002. So if 9 years is not a long time than it didn't take long.

Of course during that time period of Holy Joe's inaction, additional children were molested.

Nice legacy!

He could always go into the Catholic priesthood. Heck, maybe he could get a nice little parish in Rome, his homeland, like Cardinal Law did after leaving his "legacy" in Boston.

[Loveithere]

Joe knew of serious allegations in 2002. So if 9 years is not a long time than it didn't take long.

Of course during that time period of Holy Joe's inaction, additional children were molested.

Nice legacy!

Wow, this thread is getting mean spirited.

[tpop1]

It's a mean subject!!!

[golf2140]

He was fired tonight:rant-rave:

[graciegirl]

A coach is a teacher. A teacher must report child abuse to local law enforcement.


No matter what else he did. He failed to do that.


After all is said and done this is how Joe Paterno will be remembered.

[chuckinca]

All I can say is - -- WOW

Go from the most respected College Football Coach with years and years of history to trashed and fired in a week!


.

[hedoman]

Ye who have no sin cast the first stone.

Joe Pa IS Penn State so any conflict that needs headlines will involve him.

Anybody know the heirarchy of University Security? There is protocol and only higher ups may involve outside agencies at their discretion. So some body comes to you and says they saw something happen as it relates to a previous employee. Protocol dictates that I report this to higher authorities in the chain of command, which he did. They investigate it and take control. Follow up? With all the othr responsibilities you think I have time to follow up?

Everybody is treating this as if Joe SAW the event and did nothing.... You make it sound like he did it NOT a former coach years removed. It IS horrific what happened but to tarnish a man for doing what he is instructed to do and follow the chain of command on hearsay, well you all have got it wrong!

Many other horrors were witnessed and not reported in Corporate and in the military ... That'sno excuse but it happens......

[graciegirl]

Ye who have no sin cast the first stone.

Joe Pa IS Penn State so any conflict that needs headlines will involve him.

Anybody know the heirarchy of University Security? There is protocol and only higher ups may involve outside agencies at their discretion. So some body comes to you and says they saw something happen as it relates to a previous employee. Protocol dictates that I report this to higher authorities in the chain of command, which he did. They investigate it and take control. Follow up? With all the othr responsibilities you think I have time to follow up?

Everybody is treating this as if Joe SAW the event and did nothing.... You make it sound like he did it NOT a former coach years removed. It IS horrific what happened but to tarnish a man for doing what he is instructed to do and follow the chain of command on hearsay, well you all have got it wrong!

Many other horrors were witnessed and not reported in Corporate and in the military ... That'sno excuse but it happens......


Hedoman,

You may be right on this one too. You are always fair and accurate...but..

I was under the impression that in the last ten years or so that all suspected child abuse seen by teachers must be reported to law enforcement and not to supervisors. Maybe that is not in all states.

My belief is that Joe Paterno is a fine man. I certainly have no right to cast stones because I am NOT sinless.

But we can't forget the fact that this man, this fine man, this great man, who was a huge hero to hundreds of thousands and deservedly so, had the same responsiblity as a lowly kindergarten teacher like me.

Hedoman. It hurts all of us to see these things happen. I am sorry that I appear self righteous.

And it is possible that he did just exactly what he was supposed to do and worried about it at night and couldn't sleep.

What a terrible, awful mess. What pain for all.

[De Lis]

It made me ill when, yesterday, his defense was he had "17 grandchildren". So??

Also, the number of people rioting because of his firing is very disconcerting. I will blame this on 'youth', but this is our best and brightest?

So MANY to fire and get rid of.

[bimmertl]

The grand jury report can be found on line. Form your own opinions if you can get through it.

The defense of Joe reminds of the classic "I was just following orders" defense.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/06/sports/ncaafootball/20111106-pennstate-document.html

[Mudder]

What about the graduate student who is said to have witnessed something in a locker room? Why didn't he go to police??? It's a mess. I'm sorry to say but it's just another example of men with power attempting to sweep things under the rug in hopes that the problem will just go away quietly.

[bimmertl]

What about the graduate student who is said to have witnessed something in a locker room? Why didn't he go to police??? It's a mess. I'm sorry to say but it's just another example of men with power attempting to sweep things under the rug in hopes that the problem will just go away quietly.

Why didn't he stop what he saw? He's still a coach on the team. He's not exactly a little guy. No doubt he could have handled a 60 year old man abusing a 10 year old in a shower. His lack of action at the time are really disturbing.

[De Lis]

I read in the beginning that the grad student was now an assistant coach at Penn State. Pay off possibly?

[graciegirl]

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2011/11/10/110911-CFB-paterno-firing-PI-AM_2011111003010053_660_320.JPG
Penn State students flip a news van as a riot erupts.

[tpop1]

Hope everyone is happy now.:ohdear:

Nothing about this mess has made me happy, especially after reading the Grand Jury report....every word of the disturbing 23 pages.

Joe's no victim here, Spanier's no victim here; the young boys are the ONLY victims here. Read the Grand Jury report!!!!

So many opportunities to stop the creep; but NO ONE stepped up. Adult after adult had a chance but living in such an insular society there on campus, they had no real idea how to go about it.

Not so much bad people, as BAD desisions.

And the bad decisions continued last night with the rioting students turning over a TV truck.

Edmund Burke's quote has never been more applicable..."All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

[2BNTV]

Nothing about this mess has made me happy, especially after reading the Grand Jury report....every word of the disturbing 23 pages.

Joe's no victim here, Spanier's no victim here; the young boys are the ONLY victims here. Read the Grand Jury report!!!!

So many opportunities to stop the creep; but NO ONE stepped up. Adult after adult had a chance but living in such an insular society there on campus, they had no real idea how to go about it.

Not so much bad people, as BAD desisions.

And the bad decisions continued last night with the rioting students turning over a TV truck.

Edmund Burke's quote has never been more applicable..."All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

Excellent post. :BigApplause:

Not so much bad people, as BAD decisions, except Jerry Sandusky.

I really admired Joe Pa but this is an unbelievable failure to do the right thing by several people. A scandal that cannot even be measured on the richter scale.

We will have to wait for the trial and see how this plays out in the justice system.

My thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families.

[PennBF]

This appears to be just another case of someone protecting the "Institution" at the expense of a child. How many times is it that an Institution is protected and there is outrage when leaders, etc. are charged with abuse of children as it will have a negative effect on the "Institution". Many raise to the defense of the person who abused the child in order to protect the institution. How many will say they feel sorry for Paterno when in fact they
want to protect the image of the Institution. How many will try to defend the Institution which failed the child as it [Institution] did not ensure the enviorement at the Institution was such as to make sure all knew the penalty and seriousness of any volation. Was Paterno's only notification to the Management of Sports at Penn State was kept quiet so as to protect the Institution and therefore it was not reported to the police?
The child is always more important than any institution. :(

[Dennis Ga]

How can a Father and Grandfather stand by and let someone abuse young boys and not do anything. Makes me sick to think someone would stand by and let this keep going on to protect a friend or an institution. The protection of the Child should always come first.

[ilovetv]

This appears to be just another case of someone protecting the "Institution" at the expense of a child. How many times is it that an Institution is protected and there is outrage when leaders, etc. are charged with abuse of children as it will have a negative effect on the "Institution". Many raise to the defense of the person who abused the child in order to protect the institution. How many will say they feel sorry for Paterno when in fact they
want to protect the image of the Institution. How many will try to defend the Institution which failed the child as it [Institution] did not ensure the enviorement at the Institution was such as to make sure all knew the penalty and seriousness of any volation. Was Paterno's only notification to the Management of Sports at Penn State was kept quiet so as to protect the Institution and therefore it was not reported to the police?
The child is always more important than any institution. :(

What it really boils down to is that "the Institution" needs MONEY....continuing and perpetual donations....by football-obsessed alumni into athletic budgets....or by parishioners into the collection basket or diocesan campaign fund.

[Virtual Geezer]

Ye who have no sin cast the first stone.

Joe Pa IS Penn State so any conflict that needs headlines will involve him.

Anybody know the heirarchy of University Security? There is protocol and only higher ups may involve outside agencies at their discretion. So some body comes to you and says they saw something happen as it relates to a previous employee. Protocol dictates that I report this to higher authorities in the chain of command, which he did. They investigate it and take control. Follow up? With all the othr responsibilities you think I have time to follow up?

Everybody is treating this as if Joe SAW the event and did nothing.... You make it sound like he did it NOT a former coach years removed. It IS horrific what happened but to tarnish a man for doing what he is instructed to do and follow the chain of command on hearsay, well you all have got it wrong!

Many other horrors were witnessed and not reported in Corporate and in the military ... That'sno excuse but it happens......

I agree 100%. The new chain of command in society today is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, TMZ, then the old chain of superior on up. Oh yeah if anyone brakes the chain it is your fault regardless.

Joe got a raw deal and should have been allowed to finish out the season.

VG

[PennBF]

Why did Joe Pa not go to the Police? Because his first loyalty is to the Institution and not abused 10 year old children. He should not only be fired
immediately but brought up on charges. He is the poster child for all of those
who care more about their Instutional loyalty or protecting thier Management than 10 year old abused children.:rant-rave:

[PennBF]

Is it self righteous to stand up against abuse of children? Is it self righteous to stand up against the torturing of defenselss animals? It is sad that some would rather sweep these terrible acts under the table rather than have the coviction and courage to speak out. If speaking out is self righteous then color me self righteous. I would carry the label with great pride.:rant-rave:

[Pturner]

And we thought Ohio State was having problems! Pales in comparison to what Penn State is having to deal with.

Bill :)

Penn State is not the victim here. It appears that Penn State leadership facilitated the crimes by not going to police. The cover-up was institutional, was it not?

The very idea that only higher ups are allowed by policy to notify police of a suspected crime on campus seems wrong-headed. What could possibly motivate such policy but protecting the university at the expense of transparency, integrity and justice.

I realize that many if not most universities have this same policy. If we learn nothing from this tragedy, it should be that those self-serving campus policies are a travesty.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

The latest.......FWIW:

http://www.thepostgame.com/commentary/201111/alleged-victims-lawyer-board-made-wrong-call-firing-paterno

Bill :)

[PennBF]

:wave:

[Mikeod]

Penn State is not the victim here. It appears that Penn State leadership facilitated the crimes by not going to police. The cover-up was institutional, was it not?

The very idea that only higher ups are allowed by policy to notify police of a suspected crime on campus seems wrong-headed. What could possibly motivate such policy but protecting the university at the expense of transparency, integrity and justice.

I realize that many if not most universities have this same policy. If we learn nothing from this tragedy, it should be that those self-serving campus policies are a travesty.

That is not quite the case here. I think that if the graduate assistant had called the police immediately that night it would have been consistent with the school policy. (Assuming it is similar to those I have encountered at several institutions and corporations.) All policies I have seen do not restrict the ability to call the police when a crime is ongoing. But they do require notification of administration when police need to be contacted about something that happened in the past. Since Coach Paterno and subsequently the AD and others were notified of that abuse 24-48 hours later, there was no immediate need for a police presence at the school. The perpetrator and the victim were long gone. Therefore, it fell on the administration to notify the police, per policy, and get an investigation started. Whether they failed in that duty or not will be determined.

There may be a coverup in this case. But if it is determined that a cover-up did occur, I don't believe the policy caused it, rather the failure of people to do their jobs. Obviously, anyone who decided to bury this affair to protect the university's reputation failed miserably when you look at the result.

[2BNTV]

I am posting this article as it is written by a great sports writer.

End Of Paterno

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/?sct=hp_wr_a5&eref=sihp

[PennBF]

It is interesting as to why some feel the need to insult, call names and use that as a defense against supporting those who point out the fact that Joe Paterno was in fact complicit in the abuse of a child. It may be because they have no facts and must rely on calling names and insulting the ones who feel that children should be protected! They should examine themselves in order to be better equipped to disucss issues and avoid the pit falls of name calling.
They should try to better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person. When I read something from a person who uses that approach I am sad as it is clear the person does not think enough of themseleves to try to improve.
I have not and will not call names or use insults to try to shut down discussion as that would make me no better than the one who does.:wave:

[2BNTV]

Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary, a key witness in the child sex abuse scandal that has engulfed the school, has been placed on administrative leave. The leave is "indefinite".

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/11/11/penn-state-mike-mcqueary.ap/index.html#ixzz1dRGjkkJD

[Loveithere]

It is interesting as to why some feel the need to insult, call names and use that as a defense against supporting those who point out the fact that Joe Paterno was in fact complicit in the abuse of a child. It may be because they have no facts and must rely on calling names and insulting the ones who feel that children should be protected! They should examine themselves in order to be better equipped to disucss issues and avoid the pit falls of name calling.
They should try to better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person. When I read something from a person who uses that approach I am sad as it is clear the person does not think enough of themseleves to try to improve.
I have not and will not call names or use insults to try to shut down discussion as that would make me no better than the one who does.:wave:

Funny how some will go on about name calling and then put down half of the posters on this forum. You are right, there should be more examining.

[PennBF]

I believe there was a note which called people who critized Paterno as being "Self Righteous". That is a vain attempt to stop notes from being written and using bullying as a technique by calling names. How sad.:wave:

[graciegirl]

I will never understand WHY someone would send threats against the assistant coach's life, the one who told Joe Paterno that he saw the man raping the child.

This world doesn't make sense to me sometimes. Doing the right thing and being self righteous are two completely different things. Who in the world with any kind of ethics wouldn't have reported seeing a little boy being raped?

[Pturner]

That is not quite the case here. I think that if the graduate assistant had called the police immediately that night it would have been consistent with the school policy. (Assuming it is similar to those I have encountered at several institutions and corporations.) All policies I have seen do not restrict the ability to call the police when a crime is ongoing. But they do require notification of administration when police need to be contacted about something that happened in the past. Since Coach Paterno and subsequently the AD and others were notified of that abuse 24-48 hours later, there was no immediate need for a police presence at the school. The perpetrator and the victim were long gone. Therefore, it fell on the administration to notify the police, per policy, and get an investigation started. Whether they failed in that duty or not will be determined.

There may be a coverup in this case. But if it is determined that a cover-up did occur, I don't believe the policy caused it, rather the failure of people to do their jobs. Obviously, anyone who decided to bury this affair to protect the university's reputation failed miserably when you look at the result.

Hi Mike,
These are all good points. I can see why mgmt would want a heads up. Not sure I agree though that police should not be notified after the fact as soon as possible so they could come on campus to investigate. They could interview the witness while his memory was fresh, talk to others who were around to ascertain whether they might unknowingly have heard or seen anything relevent and, perhaps even recovered evidence at the alleged crime scene, all less likely the later they are contacted.

[Mikeod]

It is interesting as to why some feel the need to insult, call names and use that as a defense against supporting those who point out the fact that Joe Paterno was in fact complicit in the abuse of a child. It may be because they have no facts and must rely on calling names and insulting the ones who feel that children should be protected! They should examine themselves in order to be better equipped to disucss issues and avoid the pit falls of name calling.
They should try to better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person. When I read something from a person who uses that approach I am sad as it is clear the person does not think enough of themseleves to try to improve.
I have not and will not call names or use insults to try to shut down discussion as that would make me no better than the one who does.:wave:

Since you're referring to the self-righteous comment, is that any worse than you indicating that those who disagree should "better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person."? Does disagreement with your position make someone a lesser person?

Remember: The most persistent criticism of grand juries is that jurors are not a representative sampling of the community, and are not qualified for jury service, in that they do not possess a satisfactory ability to ask pertinent questions, or sufficient understanding of local government and the concept of due process. Unlike potential jurors in regular trials, grand jurors are not screened for bias or other improper factors. They are rarely read any instruction on the law, as this is not a requirement; their job is only to judge on what the prosecutor produced. The prosecutor drafts the charges and decides which witnesses to call. The prosecutor is not obliged to present evidence in favor of those being investigated. Grand jury witnesses have no right to have a lawyer or family in the room, and can be charged with holding the court in contempt (punishable with incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury) if they refuse to appear before the jury and all evidence is presented by a prosecutor in a cloak of secrecy, as the prosecutor, grand jurors, and the grand jury stenographer are prohibited from disclosing what happened before the grand jury, unless ordered to do so in a judicial proceeding.

It appears the major portion of the invective posted on several online boards is directed toward Paterno, and less toward the perpetrator and/or the graduate assistant who witnessed the event and failed to do anything to stop/rescue the youth. Paterno may be involved in this up to his eyeballs, but everything I have read about this man from people who played for him indicates that integrity was a major point with him. It is noteworthy that Penn State is one of only 4 Division 1 schools that has never had an NCAA violation. I think if his sole driving force was to win at all costs and maximize revenue for the school, that there would be issues that resulted in sanctions from the NCAA.

It is entirely possible to disagree with those who portray Paterno as complicit or an enabler and still find the actions of Sandusky reprehensible.

[graciegirl]

Since you're referring to the self-righteous comment, is that any worse than you indicating that those who disagree should "better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person."? Does disagreement with your position make someone a lesser person?

Remember: The most persistent criticism of grand juries is that jurors are not a representative sampling of the community, and are not qualified for jury service, in that they do not possess a satisfactory ability to ask pertinent questions, or sufficient understanding of local government and the concept of due process. Unlike potential jurors in regular trials, grand jurors are not screened for bias or other improper factors. They are rarely read any instruction on the law, as this is not a requirement; their job is only to judge on what the prosecutor produced. The prosecutor drafts the charges and decides which witnesses to call. The prosecutor is not obliged to present evidence in favor of those being investigated. Grand jury witnesses have no right to have a lawyer or family in the room, and can be charged with holding the court in contempt (punishable with incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury) if they refuse to appear before the jury and all evidence is presented by a prosecutor in a cloak of secrecy, as the prosecutor, grand jurors, and the grand jury stenographer are prohibited from disclosing what happened before the grand jury, unless ordered to do so in a judicial proceeding.

It appears the major portion of the invective posted on several online boards is directed toward Paterno, and less toward the perpetrator and/or the graduate assistant who witnessed the event and failed to do anything to stop/rescue the youth. Paterno may be involved in this up to his eyeballs, but everything I have read about this man from people who played for him indicates that integrity was a major point with him. It is noteworthy that Penn State is one of only 4 Division 1 schools that has never had an NCAA violation. I think if his sole driving force was to win at all costs and maximize revenue for the school, that there would be issues that resulted in sanctions from the NCAA.

It is entirely possible to disagree with those who portray Paterno as complicit or an enabler and still find the actions of Sandusky reprehensible.

There are so many issues involved and they all come back to one thing. All of us, no matter how many good things we do and how often we accomplish great things and even if we have continued to win the approval of friends, family and the public for decades are capable of making a choice that could have been better in hindsight.

I believe Joe Paterno is a good man, a great man and it is just so sad that his career in the public eye has ended like this. Now he will have an opportunity to be really great, because many of us have suffered awful things that are heartbreaking, unexpected and unsolvable.

I believe that he will do the right thing.

I do not know how Jerry Sullivan will fare. It seems obvious to me that from the get go he set up that foundation to have a lot of little ones to have sex with. Little ones who didn't have a stable home or protectors. I would like to be alone in a room with Jerry Sullivan for five minutes.

I also think that people couldn't really believe what they were thinking about him, if they had suspicions early on..but I hope and pray that no one looked the other way because he was a good coach and helped the football program or they didn't want to besmirch that program.

We come into this world alone and we leave it alone and most of us believe we will have to answer to someone eventually.

[Loveithere]

Since you're referring to the self-righteous comment, is that any worse than you indicating that those who disagree should "better understand the underpinnings of their behavior so they can grow and be a better person."? Does disagreement with your position make someone a lesser person?

Remember: The most persistent criticism of grand juries is that jurors are not a representative sampling of the community, and are not qualified for jury service, in that they do not possess a satisfactory ability to ask pertinent questions, or sufficient understanding of local government and the concept of due process. Unlike potential jurors in regular trials, grand jurors are not screened for bias or other improper factors. They are rarely read any instruction on the law, as this is not a requirement; their job is only to judge on what the prosecutor produced. The prosecutor drafts the charges and decides which witnesses to call. The prosecutor is not obliged to present evidence in favor of those being investigated. Grand jury witnesses have no right to have a lawyer or family in the room, and can be charged with holding the court in contempt (punishable with incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury) if they refuse to appear before the jury and all evidence is presented by a prosecutor in a cloak of secrecy, as the prosecutor, grand jurors, and the grand jury stenographer are prohibited from disclosing what happened before the grand jury, unless ordered to do so in a judicial proceeding.

It appears the major portion of the invective posted on several online boards is directed toward Paterno, and less toward the perpetrator and/or the graduate assistant who witnessed the event and failed to do anything to stop/rescue the youth. Paterno may be involved in this up to his eyeballs, but everything I have read about this man from people who played for him indicates that integrity was a major point with him. It is noteworthy that Penn State is one of only 4 Division 1 schools that has never had an NCAA violation. I think if his sole driving force was to win at all costs and maximize revenue for the school, that there would be issues that resulted in sanctions from the NCAA.

It is entirely possible to disagree with those who portray Paterno as complicit or an enabler and still find the actions of Sandusky reprehensible.

I am the one who wrote the term self-righteous and I wrote it in anger as I was reading posts after posts of people piling on saying basically the same thing. But know that I think about it, everybody was writing while angry, right?
As to the poster who called that expression "bullying", please explain the term "bullying" If one of the meanings of "bullying" when a bunch of people pick on one individual, well, nuff said.

[PennBF]

Could not add or remove anything from this statement from Barry Switzed. Will
no longer respond to any further comments as this, in my opinion says it all.:wave:

Former Oklahoma University and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer says members of the Penn State coaching staff had to be aware of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky’s alleged behavior.

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time,” Switzer said in an interview with The Oklahoman newspaper.

Former Oklahoma University and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer says members of the Penn State coaching staff had to be aware of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky’s alleged behavior. (AP Photo)Switzer added that others outside the Penn State program had to have known as well.

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew,” Switzer said.

Switzer said the tragedy of the situation was that no one stepped up to put a stop to Sandusky.

“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director. There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could’ve done something about this, too’ that didn’t come forward. That’s the tragedy of it,” he said.

Switzer said that the university's trustees did the right thing by firing by Paterno on Wednesday night, but added that "there are no winners here.”

A grand jury indicted Sandusky on 40 charges of sexual abuse involving minors.

Switzer was forced to resign from Oklahoma in 1989 after the NCAA placed the football program on probation. The problems that drove Switzer out at OU, however, were nothing like what is going on at Penn State.

The Hall of Fame coach also had sharp words for Penn State students and fans who reacted violently to Paterno's firing.

"These students the other night, I watched 'em occupy State College, and I thought, ‘They don't understand.' If they stopped and thought about ... how many people were involved and knew this and did nothing, they just haven't lived long enough. And what they've done is try to support somebody the university can't support," he said.

Comments


Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-10/barry-switzer-on-penn-state-scandal-everyone-on-that-staff-had-to-have-known?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%7C112042#ixzz1dVSIqCnB

[Loveithere]

Enough said? So, an opinion from a Dallas Cowboy Coach is the last word?:confused:

[tpop1]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track...........

My inner voice will not stop whispering to me that the dismissal of the 1998 charges against Sandusky by dint of the DA not charging him,
is going to unfold into even darker incidents being reveiled.

That D.A. Ray Gricar disappeared in 2005 under very suspisious conditions....body or man never found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

This nagging inner voice is often on target......."Follow the story of the missing D.A.!!! - I bet more will be coming"

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but.......
.

[PennBF]

Yes !!:wave:

[rubicon]

There is a quote in today's WSJ that essentially says "that those with sympathies for those individuals include Joe Pread the sickening 23 page Grand Jury report.....It wiil transfer one's initial sense of deep sadness to one of burning rage." Obviously too many officials at Penn State thought Penn State football sacrosant. Sandusky actions should have immediately been reported to the police.

[duffysmom]

I too believe that there is much more to this horrible story and more will be revealed. Joe Pa is personally responsible for every little boy who was raped after he found out and chose to keep silent and allow the brutality to continue.

[Mikeod]

Here's a different perspective on the situation.

http://lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson326.html

[tainsley]

What it really boils down to is that "the Institution" needs MONEY....continuing and perpetual donations....by football-obsessed alumni into athletic budgets....or by parishioners into the collection basket or diocesan campaign fund.

I agree...the institution of College Football...and I don't care what college or university. I hope all college and university presidents, coaches, ADs and staff are put on notice and clean up their programs (as well as the NCAA)!!!!!

[Loveithere]

Yes !!:wave:

Maybe

http://lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson326.html

[jblum315]

Joe Paterno is officially dead. RIP.

[2BNTV]

The article I saw was posted in the NY Post at 10:23 AM.

RIP Joe - You were a good man.

[Taltarzac725]

AP columnist: NCAA must gut Penn State's football program with massive penalties | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal (http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2012-07-15/ap-columnist-ncaa-must-gut-penn-states-football-program-massive-penalties)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1258259-penn-state-football-deserves-indefinite-death-penalty

There were 4 columnists giving their opinions about this in The Villages Daily Sun today. What do you think should happen to the football program at Penn State?

If I were the person with the power to give out some kind of punishment to Penn State, I would make the football program give a hefty percentage of their profits from winning bowl games or whatever to child abuse prevention programs throughout the Northeast for the next 35 years. Not enough of a percentage though to make the players and coaches in the program to lose the motivation to try to win football games.

[graciegirl]

I don't know. It seems wrong to penalize kids who are coming to Penn State and what the joy of college football is meant to be in their future.

This whole thing has turned out to be so much worse than anyone expected if anything could be worse than a grown man being able to hurt little boys who didn't have a solid family to protect them and for other grown men to look the other way for the sake of fame and glory and money and tradition....

[2BNTV]

I totally agree with the article. With that being said, my personal preferences would be:

1. A bowl ban for ten years so it's football program is devalued.
2. Heavy financial penalties imossed by the NCAA.
2. Decrease tuition cost, (due to it is no longer a beacon of integrity).
3. Pay all medical cost plus damages to all victims although they will never be the same again.
4. Take down all statues and references to Joe Paterno.

Joe Pa's failure to follow-up in this incident was a colussus error in judgement that ruined all the good work he did. It's sad that many years of doing good was greatly overshadowed by his willingness to cover this up.

My heart goes out to the victims is my botom line.

[De Lis]

I am not a graduate of Penn State, and maybe I would feel differently if I were, but every time I see that Paterno statue, my stomach churns. How can people view that and not think of those children any more?

[Joaniesmom]

We lived in Happy Valley for many, many years. My husband got two degrees from Penn State. Our daughter was born there. While we were not huge football fans, we did enjoy all the hoopla that went along with it during game day.

First let me say we have our Penn State flag flying at half staff in front of our home to express our shame and sadness for the children who have been harmed. Those children we know of, those I am certain we have yet to hear about and those who will always suffer in silence.

But I don't understand the posters who are so certain that destroying and shaming the entire Penn State football program and the reputation of everyone associated with PSU: the students, faculty, cafeteria workers, librarians, everybody, is the solution. Speaking only for myself, I don't know how we could feel any worse.

Keep in mind that JoPa is dead, Sandusky will hopefully will be in jail for the rest of his pitifull life, the rest of the "Suits" who ran Penn State will soon be arrested and come to their just "rewards."

The Second Mile Club is about defunct, if not already dead. New laws are being put into place within Penn State to more fully prevent this type of moral holocaust from happening again.

What I am wondering is what good will it do to punish incoming student athletes and shaming every student attending Penn State who had nothing to do with this mess.

Why are you being so unkind to innocent people you don't even know?

http://s1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj553/egglet2/?action=view&current=200px-Pennsylvania_State_University_sealsvg.png

[eweissenbach]

The players, current coaches, current administration, and fans had NOTHING to do with the situation. I cannot concur that they should be punished for the wrongdoing of Curley, Schultz, Spanier, Paterno, and mostly, Sandusky himself. Sandusky is paying a belated penalty, and Paterno may have suffered the worst penalty of all - hastened death and loss of a previously untarnished and magnificent legacy. Curley, Spanier and Schultz will likely pay a penalty either with a jail sentence, and/or loss of reputation and respect, not to mention already losing significant careers. When people say it is an institutional or systemic problem, I disagree. The institution made no decisions - it was the weak people involved. I say this with neither a fan interest in Penn State, nor any malice.

What should the football program be required to do? First, it is a huge moneymaker - how about letting it continue to make money and require that for the next X number of years they donate a million dollars a year to a fund for the victims, and a million dollars a year to child abuse charities. Also, require them to buy advertising on any broadcast they appear on, to highlight child abuse and how to deal with it.

[Taltarzac725]

We lived in Happy Valley for many, many years. My husband got two degrees from Penn State. Our daughter was born there. While we were not huge football fans, we did enjoy all the hoopla that went along with it during game day.

First let me say we have our Penn State flag flying at half staff in front of our home to express our shame and sadness for the children who have been harmed. Those children we know of, those I am certain we have yet to hear about and those who will always suffer in silence.

But I don't understand the posters who are so certain that destroying and shaming the entire Penn State football program and the reputation of everyone associated with PSU: the students, faculty, cafeteria workers, librarians, everybody, is the solution. Speaking only for myself, I don't know how we could feel any worse.

Keep in mind that JoPa is dead, Sandusky will hopefully will be in jail for the rest of his pitifull life, the rest of the "Suits" who ran Penn State will soon be arrested and come to their just "rewards."

The Second Mile Club is about defunct, if not already dead. New laws are being put into place within Penn State to more fully prevent this type of moral holocaust from happening again.

What I am wondering is what good will it do to punish incoming student athletes and shaming every student attending Penn State who had nothing to do with this mess.

Why are you being so unkind to innocent people you don't even know?

http://s1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj553/egglet2/?action=view&current=200px-Pennsylvania_State_University_sealsvg.png

I do feel for those stuck in the politics of this mess. Still think that the punishment should be some kind of long term community service like approach done by the football program and their backers. Something that will turn a negative into a positive like having Penn State's football program fund child abuse hotlines and information centers in the Pennsylvania and surrounding areas. Have these programs marked with the note that they are partially funded by Penn State.

You just hurt the innocent by killing off the Penn State football program. Unfortunately, that is what usually happens with these kind of politics. The politicians make a stink for a while, the worst of the worst are punished, and then this just happens at some other school later on.

[Count'n the days]

Baylor University was hit by scandal with the basketball program not long ago. A young man lost his life at the hands of another player. Individuals were involved with covering up information to protect themselves because they had violated NCAA rules. Individuals and Baylor were dealt severe penalties - rightly so. It has been a long road back for the men's basketball program and the school, but they are back and stronger than ever. They advanced to the Elite Eight twice in the last few years. The girls basketball team won the National Championship twice recently, including last year breaking a record for number of wins. The football team won an exciting bowl game and their quarterback Robert Griffin III won the Heisman Trophy last year. The students who felt the pain while attending (my son being one), now have something to cheer about.

I LOVE watching college football. As the summer heat is at it's worst I start looking forward to cooler weather and the excitement of the upcoming NCAA football season. It is unfortunate that the NCAA penalties for such crimes will be felt by innocent people. You can't change what's been done in the past, but only hope to do what will deter it from happing in the future and protecting future victims. IMHO I don't think any penalty would be too severe for what's happened. Penn State and the students will survive, but no one should forget what's happened to remind us all to do the right thing in the future.

[l2ridehd]

Punish those that committed the crime as much as possible. That would include removing the statue, fines, jail, community service, and what ever else could be meted out to those who broke the law or conspired in any type cover up.

Do not punish the current students, football players, coaches, or anyone not involved. There are many students there who got there with scholarships and sports talent that otherwise would not get to go to college. Place the blame on the adults that failed, not on the kids trying to get a decent education.

[Shimpy]

Punish those that committed the crime as much as possible. That would include removing the statue, fines, jail, community service, and what ever else could be meted out to those who broke the law or conspired in any type cover up.

Do not punish the current students, football players, coaches, or anyone not involved. There are many students there who got there with scholarships and sports talent that otherwise would not get to go to college. Place the blame on the adults that failed, not on the kids trying to get a decent education.

I agree 100%. I also must add that if sanctions may be levied it would be unfair to take wins or scholarships away from the school as this did nothing to improve the preformance of the team.
The school must admit that Joe P. was not the saint that they thought he was and his statue should be taken down.

[ilovetv]

It's a culture of corruption, just like the hierarchy that protected the pedophile priests.

Somebody (-ies), behind all those closed doors, wanted it this way. And one of the most influential of those somebodies is not talking, because he died when it started to hit the fan.

[janmcn]

For someone who prided himself on running a program that had no NCAA violations, a very high graduation rate and two national championships, Joe Paterno sure disappointed a lot of people. We'll never know why he did what he did or didn't do. I agree it's not fair to punish innocent people like the players, the merchants, the townspeople and students who had nothing to do with the horrendous actions of one man and the cover-up by others.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm not completely familiar with the entire situation, but from what I understand, the one guy was abusing kids and Joe Paterno, evidently knew about it and didn't say anything. If that's the case and there are no other people involved why punish the school or the program at all? The guy that committed the crime is being prosecuted and the guy that covered it up is dead.

If there were other people involved in the cover up then they should be removed from their position and prosecuted criminally. Punishing the program is punishing people that had nothing to do with the crime.

[2BNTV]

Should Joe Paterno's statue be taken down.

Statues of living, like Penn State's of Joe Paterno, problematic - Steve Rushin - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/steve_rushin/07/18/statues/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a1)

[buckscounty]

Yes, and very soon.....

[Rubber Bucket]

Yes! The sooner, the better.

[Taltarzac725]

Should be up to the victims/survivors and their families from the Penn State football program child abuse scandal. If this statute is a reminder of the cover-up done by some of the Penn State football team administration of long term child abuse-- which I take it included Joe Paterno-- then it should be removed, and soon.

It should be about empowering the victims/survivors though and not so much about the image of Penn State.

[tkret]

The NCAA has spoken and removed ALL wins from the Penn State program dating back to 1998. No Bowl games for the next 4 years. Fines and scholarship losses. Players may switch schools without sitting out a season.
Some will say "too harsh" .... others will say "a slap on the wrist". The NCAA did not sit on it's hands on this one.
......
Sandusky, once a member of Penn State, is now a member of State Pen.

[justjim]

Have not heard this news yet. What about sanctions on other sports?

[graciegirl]

Have not heard this news yet. What about sanctions on other sports?

NCAA hands down punishments to Penn State - College Football News | FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-punishment-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-scandal-072312)

[Taltarzac725]

I will have to watch the Internet and see what kind of re-actions the various societies and associations for the prevention of sexual child abuse have to say about these punishments imposed on Penn State. National Association to Prevent Sexual Abuse of Children* (http://www.napsac.us/)

Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania (http://preventchildabusepa.org/) https://www.facebook.com/PreventChildAbusePA

Home | CAPA (http://www.childabuseprevention.org/)

http://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/index.php?s=99

[2BNTV]

No punishment handed to Penn State will make these victims whole again.

Pter King's MMQB Column.

Joe, and his statue, had to go.

Last fall, I was critical of the Penn State administration for firing Joe Paterno over the phone, during the crazy week when the board of trustees decided to dump the coach. I thought it was classless, given what Paterno had meant to the university and the football program.

Now, obviously, things have changed. I've thought for years that the Penn State football program, to Joe Paterno, had gotten to be more about Joe than it was about the players. There's no way Paterno was energetic and vital enough in his 80s to coach a Big Ten football team as well as a younger man, yet for years no one could oust him from the job. It was Paterno running the school, doing what he wanted, staying as long as he wanted, and it set the stage for other bad things to happen. Other very bad things.

Like an athletic director who allowed, according to the Louis Freeh report, the investigation into a sex act between Jerry Sandusky and a child to be buried. There can be no arguing how disgusting and disheartening that is. For those reasons, particularly now that the second one is out in the open, it's clear to me the university didn't owe Paterno anything at the end -- other than to take down the statue that would have been a constant reminder of the stain caused by looking the other way while young boys were sexually abused by Jerry Sandusky.

Last year, I asked Penn State student journalist Emily Kaplan to weigh in on her feelings about the case when it was at its peak. I do the same thing this morning, as the university braces for today's reported NCAA sanctions:

For as long as I can remember, my neighboring town has been known for a terrible scandal. It had to do with the football culture. Glen Ridge, N.J., is a well-manicured suburb of New York City, where the streets are lined with majestic shade trees and quaint gaslight lamps. But in 1989, three members of the high school football team sexually assaulted a developmentally disabled young woman. An idyllic community was ripped apart and lives changed forever. Twenty-three years later, Glen Ridge is still, to some, stigmatized by "Our Guys," which became the title of the New York Times best-selling book about the incident and its fallout.

As I prepare for my senior year at Penn State, I can't help but wonder if my school will forever be known for its terrible scandal.

Of course, it had to do with the football culture. Our guys failed, enabling a serial child molester to reign. Penn State's so-called leaders made a mockery of our school's motto, "Success With Honor." Innocent children suffered, and now, as men, they must still cope with the ramifications.

As we move forward, it doesn't matter what statues we take down, or what football games we don't play. Nothing can undo what has been done. So where do we go from here? Our school's in a crisis, but it's not an identity crisis. I think we can identify what allowed this to happen. Mostly, our football culture became, in essence, our university culture. We deified a flawed man and gave him too much power.

It's easy to say this in hindsight. We all fell into the trap, enamored by the brand and the promises. I owned a Joe Paterno bobblehead doll and had a poster of him in my dorm room. We can disassociate from Paterno all we want -- throw out the knick-knacks and take down his statue, which happened Sunday morning -- but what's more important is to disassociate from the culture of secrecy and prioritizing football in unhealthy doses.

We, the 500,000 living alumni and 40,000 students, need to find a way to ensure that money and football and public perception will never again take precedence over doing the right thing. Which will be a challenge. When I heard that some of my peers camped out in tents outside Paterno's statue, "protecting it from vandalism," I wish they had looked at the bigger picture. Who was protecting those children?

For years Penn State built a powerful brand, and did everything to protect it. Now our university, like the town of Glen Ridge, will be long branded by its scandal. But moving ahead, Penn State has a unique opportunity to be known for something more: as leaders in child-abuse education.

I look at a grassroots network of Penn State alumni who founded the ProudPSUforRAINN campaign, urging Penn Staters to donate money to prevent and treat victims of sexual abuse. They reached their goal of raising $500,000 in less than one month. That's a great start. What can we do in six months? One year? Ten years?

These are the people who are Penn State. We, not the football guys, have the opportunity to define our own legacy now

Read more: Tying up loose ends before heading out on my annual training camp tour - Peter King - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/07/22/mmqb/index.html#ixzz21SfDJ2B8)

They will leave the Joe Paterno statue up but they're going to have him look the other way.''

-- @AlbertBrooks, the comedic actor.

[BarryRX]

No punishment handed to Penn State will make these victims whole again.

Pter King's MMQB Column.

Joe, and his statue, had to go.

Last fall, I was critical of the Penn State administration for firing Joe Paterno over the phone, during the crazy week when the board of trustees decided to dump the coach. I thought it was classless, given what Paterno had meant to the university and the football program.

Now, obviously, things have changed. I've thought for years that the Penn State football program, to Joe Paterno, had gotten to be more about Joe than it was about the players. There's no way Paterno was energetic and vital enough in his 80s to coach a Big Ten football team as well as a younger man, yet for years no one could oust him from the job. It was Paterno running the school, doing what he wanted, staying as long as he wanted, and it set the stage for other bad things to happen. Other very bad things.

Like an athletic director who allowed, according to the Louis Freeh report, the investigation into a sex act between Jerry Sandusky and a child to be buried. There can be no arguing how disgusting and disheartening that is. For those reasons, particularly now that the second one is out in the open, it's clear to me the university didn't owe Paterno anything at the end -- other than to take down the statue that would have been a constant reminder of the stain caused by looking the other way while young boys were sexually abused by Jerry Sandusky.

Last year, I asked Penn State student journalist Emily Kaplan to weigh in on her feelings about the case when it was at its peak. I do the same thing this morning, as the university braces for today's reported NCAA sanctions:

For as long as I can remember, my neighboring town has been known for a terrible scandal. It had to do with the football culture. Glen Ridge, N.J., is a well-manicured suburb of New York City, where the streets are lined with majestic shade trees and quaint gaslight lamps. But in 1989, three members of the high school football team sexually assaulted a developmentally disabled young woman. An idyllic community was ripped apart and lives changed forever. Twenty-three years later, Glen Ridge is still, to some, stigmatized by "Our Guys," which became the title of the New York Times best-selling book about the incident and its fallout.

As I prepare for my senior year at Penn State, I can't help but wonder if my school will forever be known for its terrible scandal.

Of course, it had to do with the football culture. Our guys failed, enabling a serial child molester to reign. Penn State's so-called leaders made a mockery of our school's motto, "Success With Honor." Innocent children suffered, and now, as men, they must still cope with the ramifications.

As we move forward, it doesn't matter what statues we take down, or what football games we don't play. Nothing can undo what has been done. So where do we go from here? Our school's in a crisis, but it's not an identity crisis. I think we can identify what allowed this to happen. Mostly, our football culture became, in essence, our university culture. We deified a flawed man and gave him too much power.

It's easy to say this in hindsight. We all fell into the trap, enamored by the brand and the promises. I owned a Joe Paterno bobblehead doll and had a poster of him in my dorm room. We can disassociate from Paterno all we want -- throw out the knick-knacks and take down his statue, which happened Sunday morning -- but what's more important is to disassociate from the culture of secrecy and prioritizing football in unhealthy doses.

We, the 500,000 living alumni and 40,000 students, need to find a way to ensure that money and football and public perception will never again take precedence over doing the right thing. Which will be a challenge. When I heard that some of my peers camped out in tents outside Paterno's statue, "protecting it from vandalism," I wish they had looked at the bigger picture. Who was protecting those children?

For years Penn State built a powerful brand, and did everything to protect it. Now our university, like the town of Glen Ridge, will be long branded by its scandal. But moving ahead, Penn State has a unique opportunity to be known for something more: as leaders in child-abuse education.

I look at a grassroots network of Penn State alumni who founded the ProudPSUforRAINN campaign, urging Penn Staters to donate money to prevent and treat victims of sexual abuse. They reached their goal of raising $500,000 in less than one month. That's a great start. What can we do in six months? One year? Ten years?

These are the people who are Penn State. We, not the football guys, have the opportunity to define our own legacy now

Read more: Tying up loose ends before heading out on my annual training camp tour - Peter King - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/07/22/mmqb/index.html#ixzz21SfDJ2B8)

They will leave the Joe Paterno statue up but they're going to have him look the other way.''

-- @AlbertBrooks, the comedic actor.
What a great post! Thank you!:bigbow:

[2BNTV]

What a great post! Thank you!:bigbow:

Your welcome!!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

The NCAA has spoken and removed ALL wins from the Penn State program dating back to 1998. No Bowl games for the next 4 years. Fines and scholarship losses. Players may switch schools without sitting out a season.
Some will say "too harsh" .... others will say "a slap on the wrist". The NCAA did not sit on it's hands on this one.
......
Sandusky, once a member of Penn State, is now a member of State Pen.

By vacating 112 Penn State victories from 1998-2011, the sanctions cost Paterno 111 wins. Former Florida State coach Bobby Bowden will now hold the top spot in the NCAA record book with 377 major-college wins. Paterno, who was fired days after Sandusky was charged, will be credited with 298 wins. Vacated wins are not the same as forfeits - they don't count as losses or wins

[justjim]

ESPN is all over this today. It will take Penn State a long time to recover but it will recover. Only the football program gets the NCAA sanctions and not any of the other sports. At some point in time we have made "sports" more important than education in our Universities. Basically, Football was the most important thing at Penn State. But before we start throwing stones we had better take a closer look at our own schools and Universities. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge sports fan but truthfully sports at the H.S., College and Professional level has gotten completely "out of hand" the last several years. Just how much does a 100 million dollar (plus) player contribute to our society. Is there anything wrong when all 5 of your starting freshman leave for the NBA after using just one year of their college scholarship? I was under the impression they were at the University to get an education. We pay a coach 5.3 million which is much more than a top science professor or even the President of the University. Anything wrong with that? What does this say about our culture----about our society? We have no problem building a new multi-million dollar stadium but there are no funds available to staff the new cancer institute. Maybe just maybe we got our priorities all wrong. I feel badly for the students, faculty, staff and alumni of Penn State University but they will recover in a relative short time. For the children abused by a coach at Penn State, it will take years, if ever.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Next....O.J Simpson didn't run 2000 yards in 1973.

This is such a stupid move by the NCAA. How about all the kids that played on those teams that did nothing wrong? Why are they being punished by having their records expunged?

In fact why is the school being punished at all. Some one committed a crime and some people helped to cover up that crime. The person who committed the crime has been prosecuted and will be punished. The people who cover up the crime should be prosecuted and punished. Why are tens of thousands of students and school employees who had nothing to do with any of this being punished. The university didn't commit any crime. Institutions can't commit crimes. People committed the crime and individual people should be punished.

[njbchbum]

love greg gutfeld comment on the five [fox news] - wonders if he should contact his bookie to see about resettling his account! lol

[theapeman1]

Next....O.J Simpson didn't run 2000 yards in 1973.

This is such a stupid move by the NCAA. How about all the kids that played on those teams that did nothing wrong? Why are they being punished by having their records expunged?

In fact why is the school being punished at all. Some one committed a crime and some people helped to cover up that crime. The person who committed the crime has been prosecuted and will be punished. The people who cover up the crime should be prosecuted and punished. Why are tens of thousands of students and school employees who had nothing to do with any of this being punished. The university didn't commit any crime. Institutions can't commit crimes. People committed the crime and individual people should be punished.

Guess you just don't get it. The kids had nothing to do with it. Paterno had to be punished for his complicity and the only viable way is to tarnish his image forever. That's what the NCAA has done.

[Threeputt]

By vacating 112 Penn State victories from 1998-2011, the sanctions cost Paterno 111 wins. Former Florida State coach Bobby Bowden will now hold the top spot in the NCAA record book with 377 major-college wins. Paterno, who was fired days after Sandusky was charged, will be credited with 298 wins. Vacated wins are not the same as forfeits - they don't count as losses or wins

WOW how does Coach Bowden feel about that honor? Kinda backed into it..not the same as actually earning it so the honor is hollow.

[Threeputt]

ESPN is all over this today. It will take Penn State a long time to recover but it will recover. Only the football program gets the NCAA sanctions and not any of the other sports. At some point in time we have made "sports" more important than education in our Universities. Basically, Football was the most important thing at Penn State. But before we start throwing stones we had better take a closer look at our own schools and Universities. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge sports fan but truthfully sports at the H.S., College and Professional level has gotten completely "out of hand" the last several years. Just how much does a 100 million dollar (plus) player contribute to our society. Is there anything wrong when all 5 of your starting freshman leave for the NBA after using just one year of their college scholarship? I was under the impression they were at the University to get an education. We pay a coach 5.3 million which is much more than a top science professor or even the President of the University. Anything wrong with that? What does this say about our culture----about our society? We have no problem building a new multi-million dollar stadium but there are no funds available to staff the new cancer institute. Maybe just maybe we got our priorities all wrong. I feel badly for the students, faculty, staff and alumni of Penn State University but they will recover in a relative short time. For the children abused by a coach at Penn State, it will take years, if ever.

PSU ALWAYS had the highest student scholar/graduation rate of any school out there. Their priorities were always education before sports and many players sat out who violated the strict rules of going to class and maintaining grades. Check the stats.......

[Floridagal]

In fact why is the school being punished at all. Some one committed a crime and some people helped to cover up that crime. The person who committed the crime has been prosecuted and will be punished. The people who cover up the crime should be prosecuted and punished. Why are tens of thousands of students and school employees who had nothing to do with any of this being punished. The university didn't commit any crime. Institutions can't commit crimes. People committed the crime and individual people should be punished.


I agree. Why should the students have to suffer. The football players had nothing to do with this incident and they work real hard at grades and play great football and should be allowed to play in the bowl games. All the students at Penn State work hard and the school itself is a wonderful school. T

[graciegirl]

It makes us realize that no matter how we live our lives, and what success we encounter, and what rewards we get and fame we enjoy, we are still ordinary people who are responsible for ordinary things.

I hate to see the people in happy valley who had nothing to do with these shameful events suffer but it was so bad or so wrong that unfortunatly now, even MORE innocent people have to suffer.

[rubicon]

We all view things differntly and when I view the Penn State situation would comes to my mind is what i perceive tobe the BIGGER STORY.

What comes to my mind is why is it that whether it is a church, a university, boy Scouts of america, a high school, a Day Care Center, an office do they all have the same reaction COVER IT UP. answer that question and all of the above goes away. but like mass shootings, disbehaving celebrities over sex school teaches it gets 24/7 coverage until the capital is run out and the media is onto the next big payoff for ratings.

We have become a reactive society emoting platiudes feigning indignation and then we all just sit back blink and deflate and wait for the next scandal

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Guess you just don't get it. The kids had nothing to do with it. Paterno had to be punished for his complicity and the only viable way is to tarnish his image forever. That's what the NCAA has done.

The players on the teams from 1998-2011 had nothing to do with the victories? I would beg to differ. The fact is that they had everything to do with those victories and nothing to do with this crime, yet their records are being expunged.

Kids who are currently playing on the Penn State football team are not being allowed to play in bowl games. How does that punish the people who committed the crimes?

Penn State took down Paterno's statue. That should be enough. To falsify history does nothing.

In fact why is the NCAA Involved in this at all. This was a criminal situation that should be dealt with by the courts. It had nothing to do with sports.

[tainsley]

I can only hope that all college/universities take a good hard look at their programs from recruitment, academics, game day...! As a parent of a former college football player I have seen and heard what goes on behind the scenes. Football programs in college have gotten too big...I know it's about money, big money, and winning but at what cost? shouldn't college be about academics first and foremost?

[waynet]

I assume the Catholic church will lose its' tax exempt status and pay a $60,000,000 fine. It's only fair.

[justjim]

I can only hope that all college/universities take a good hard look at their programs from recruitment, academics, game day...! As a parent of a former college football player I have seen and heard what goes on behind the scenes. Football programs in college have gotten too big...I know it's about money, big money, and winning but at what cost? shouldn't college be about academics first and foremost?:beer3:

Tainsley: I couldn't agree with you more. :bowdown: NCAA "If you find yourself in a place where the athletic culture is taking precedence over academic culture, then a variety of bad things can occur." No doubt the NCAA is making an example out of Penn State. Unfortunately, the football culture took precedence over exposing a scandal of sexual abuse by one of the football coaches----it was "covered up" in order to protect the football program. Was the punishment "harsh"? Were innocent students and players affected? Yes and Yes. Hopefully, other schools will take a second look at the culture of their athletic programs and reconsider their priorities. 5.3 million for a college football coach! That kinda sort of tells you the rest of the story. I could give you a long list of other major universities where the athletic culture has taken precedence over the real mission of the school. TOO BIG TO FAIL----seems like I've heard that phrase one too many times the past couple of years.

[Joaniesmom]

Guess you just don't get it. The kids had nothing to do with it. Paterno had to be punished for his complicity and the only viable way is to tarnish his image forever. That's what the NCAA has done.

How do you punish a dead man?

I guess the only way is to punish the school, the students, the faculty, the employees and thousands upon thousands of alumnae. That otta do it! Yeah. That'll show him!

[Taltarzac725]

Changing The Way We Think About Prevention: The Joe Paterno Statue, Sanctions, and Looking Forward (http://preventchildabuseamerica.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-joe-paterno-statue-sanctions-and.html)

I do believe that the problem lies more in a culture denying that victims are all that important when compared with various institution's interests. It is a lot broader than just Penn State. I do hope that this does something positive to put an end to the sexual abuse of kids. The Catholic Church priest abuse scandal has not had as much of an impact--in the U.S. anyway-- in curbing sexual abuse of kids in other areas of society.

[2BNTV]

Article from his biography claims he broke down crying on the day of his firing.


Paterno biography: Penn State coach “sobbed uncontrollably” after firing | SI Tracking Blog (http://tracking.si.com/2012/08/15/paterno-biography-penn-state-sobbed-firing/)

[buckscounty]

He should of cried but not for himself.

[eweissenbach]

He should of cried but not for himself.

Joe Posnanski, my favorite writer, had a very difficult task in writing this man's biography at this particular time. He started the book long before the revalations about Sandusky came to light, and no doubt had to change much of the tone of the book mid-stream. Posnanski generally gets very close to his subjects, such as Buck O'Neil, with whom he became almost like a grandson. This makes it even more difficult to write a balanced story when something like the Sandusky affair comes to light. I like to think that Paterno was a good man who did the right thing far more than most big-time coaches, but obviously failed when the biggest opportunity to stand tall came before him. It is really a tragic story for everyone, but especially the victims.

[2BNTV]

Joe Posnanski, my favorite writer, had a very difficult task in writing this man's biography at this particular time. He started the book long before the revalations about Sandusky came to light, and no doubt had to change much of the tone of the book mid-stream. Posnanski generally gets very close to his subjects, such as Buck O'Neil, with whom he became almost like a grandson. This makes it even more difficult to write a balanced story when something like the Sandusky affair comes to light. I like to think that Paterno was a good man who did the right thing far more than most big-time coaches, but obviously failed when the biggest opportunity to stand tall came before him. It is really a tragic story for everyone, but especially the victims.

Excellent post Ed. I like Joe's writing also.

You could be a writer yourself. Sadly, Joe could have avoided this tradgedy by calling the police. A good man who made one big mistake. My heart goes out to all the victims.

[Joaniesmom]

There are thousands of us who loved and admired Joe Paterno for years and years. He has done more kindnesses and good deeds that can ever be counted. Having said that, he made this one awful mistake. I am struggling to understand what was going on in his head and in his heart and suppose none of us will ever be able to figure that out. But I can't in all honesty just turn off all the love and respect I have for that man because of this. Perhaps I will have to think of him in the future with an asterisk (*) next to his name. In the long list of perverted and evil men who have stained our world, Joe Paterno is a long, long way from the bottom. Why don't I hear you blaming Jerry Sandusky?

[bimmertl]

Paterno made "one mistake". Unfortunately, it lasted for 14 years. He knew about the Sandusky issues in 1998, but did nothing. It could have ended in 98 if St. Joe did what any responsible adult would have done. Instead, his "one mistake" went on for 14 years.

I don't think that counts as "one mistake"!

[2-crazy]

Joe "who"

[alemorkam]

The put the statue in the library at Penn State. It is there to remind everyone to be quite

[Taltarzac725]

Paterno made "one mistake". Unfortunately, it lasted for 14 years. He knew about the Sandusky issues in 1998, but did nothing. It could have ended in 98 if St. Joe did what any responsible adult would have done. Instead, his "one mistake" went on for 14 years.

I don't think that counts as "one mistake"!



Does seem like a lot more than "one mistake".

[2BNTV]

There are thousands of us who loved and admired Joe Paterno for years and years. He has done more kindnesses and good deeds that can ever be counted. Having said that, he made this one awful mistake. I am struggling to understand what was going on in his head and in his heart and suppose none of us will ever be able to figure that out. But I can't in all honesty just turn off all the love and respect I have for that man because of this. Perhaps I will have to think of him in the future with an asterisk (*) next to his name. In the long list of perverted and evil men who have stained our world, Joe Paterno is a long, long way from the bottom. Why don't I hear you blaming Jerry Sandusky?

Excellent post.

I will never forgive Jerry Sandusky. He is evil incarnate. Preying on young people. He is the real evil person in this tradgedy. As far as I am concerned, when they lock him up, they should throw away the key.

I will read Joe Paterno's biography to try and understand him.

[2BNTV]

Article on Joe Pa's Biography.

Joe Paterno's final season at Penn State chronicled in controversial authorized biography 'Paterno' - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-final-season-penn-state-chronicled-controversial-authorized-biography-paterno-article-1.1137241)

[De Lis]

..."and I have 12 grandchildren!" was he initial excuse. Would he have been as smug if Jerry had mentored one of them?

[Monkei]

Well we need to move on and congratulate the efforts of Coach O Brien and those players who stuck around for a very successful year at PSU when everyone was predicting doom and gloom.

[graciegirl]

Well we need to move on and congratulate the efforts of Coach O Brien and those players who stuck around for a very successful year at PSU when everyone was predicting doom and gloom.

Many of us have a hard time "moving on" in the light of the fact that football was more important than what was happening there way too recently.

[2BNTV]

Well we need to move on and congratulate the efforts of Coach O Brien and those players who stuck around for a very successful year at PSU when everyone was predicting doom and gloom.

O'Brien has done a wonderful job football wise. It has been noticed the football team will probably lose more games going forward because recruiting will be adversely affected from the scandals sanctions. It will be a while until the football programs really recovers althought they had an excellent year, this year.

I wonder how the victims are moving on?

[Monkei]

O'Brien has done a wonderful job football wise. It has been noticed the football team will probably lose more games going forward because recruiting will be adversely affected from the scandals sanctions. It will be a while until the football programs really recovers althought they had an excellent year, this year.

I wonder how the victims are moving on?

Feel for the victims yes. But it seems to me that those involved are being prosecuted and dealt with in the proper way through the judicial system. What else would you have the university do? Why should the kids who had nothing to do with any of this pay a continuing price. There only violation was to come to a great university, get a great Big 10 education and play some football.

[graciegirl]

Feel for the victims yes. But it seems to me that those involved are being prosecuted and dealt with in the proper way through the judicial system. What else would you have the university do? Why should the kids who had nothing to do with any of this pay a continuing price. There only violation was to come to a great university, get a great Big 10 education and play some football.

You are right.

The truth is that it will be awhile before all this stuff goes away.

Just like it will be awhile before anyone thinks happily about a beautiful little town in Connecticut. One really doesn't have anything to do with the other but we are ..........just people.

Time will heal. This too will pass. Those kids will play football, get an education and make friends and have people cheer for them and continue with their lives and they will tell their grandchildren that they played at Penn State after a terrible time.

[Taltarzac725]

You are right.

The truth is that it will be awhile before all this stuff goes away.

Just like it will be awhile before anyone thinks happily about a beautiful little town in Connecticut. One really doesn't have anything to do with the other but we are ..........just people.

Time will heal. This too will pass. Those kids will play football, get an education and make friends and have people cheer for them and continue with their lives and they will tell their grandchildren that they played at Penn State after a terrible time.

Blame the powerful clique that allowed these crimes to continue, not the school itself. I am glad that Penn State Football has been having a very good year.

[2BNTV]

Feel for the victims yes. But it seems to me that those involved are being prosecuted and dealt with in the proper way through the judicial system. What else would you have the university do? Why should the kids who had nothing to do with any of this pay a continuing price. There only violation was to come to a great university, get a great Big 10 education and play some football.

I am happy for the kids that stayed and are a good representation of what this universities goals are. They should not be penalized for the people who hands were dirty in the scandal that took place. They are moving forward with their lives as they should.

I was strictly talking about football in that sanctions imposed on the school from the scandal would adversely affect the players recruted for the football team going forward. They will have less players to choose from and in a competetive fiootball environment, that will add difficulty to winning future footbal games.

Penn State is doing all the right things in moving on from this scandal as they should and I'm sure they are doing everything in their power to restore their once spotless reputation.

[Joaniesmom]

Feel for the victims yes. But it seems to me that those involved are being prosecuted and dealt with in the proper way through the judicial system. What else would you have the university do? Why should the kids who had nothing to do with any of this pay a continuing price. There only violation was to come to a great university, get a great Big 10 education and play some football.

I agree. Seem like the students are being punished more than the actual people involved in the scandal.

[Monkei]

The current coaching staff and players who stuck it out are all participating in writing a new Penn State history. Penn State football's best football years are still to come,

[JMEZARIC3]

Were do PSU fans tailgate on game day?

[simpkinp]

This fall Penn State fans will be at Mc Call's for all games

[JMEZARIC3]

Great.I am a TV newbie.
Were is McCall's?

[billjudy]

Great.I am a TV newbie.
Were is McCall's?

It's in Spanish Springs! We found it last week and plan to be there for the game on Saturday. Also, don't forget about College Colors Day on Friday in the Spanish Springs square!!!

Hope to see you there!!
Bill and Judy (from Old Stone Way)

[Monkei]

We are ...

[simpkinp]

PENN STATE. And yes that is a shout out!

[simpkinp]

PSU annual meeting is Sunday at noon at the American Legion on Rolling Acres Road at 466. You will love this bunch of people, great fans and nice friends. You can join at the meeting.

[Monkei]

PSU annual meeting is Sunday at noon at the American Legion on Rolling Acres Road at 466. You will love this bunch of people, great fans and nice friends. You can join at the meeting.

There was a PSU club in the villages. Tell me more or PM me please.

[TheDude]

I have an apartment around 7 blocks from Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. I went to the Big Ten Party before the game. I think there were more Penn State fans than not. My neighbor from Pennsylvania had great club seats and tried to sell 2 (legal in Indiana), but he took a big loss selling way under the value before game. I didn't go, late game better on TV. You could get in the stadium for $15 the day of game and no bad seats there; just great and good.

I loved the Penn State win, and happy for them, and being a Buckeye, I thank Penn State for giving OSU an extra week rest as the other 3 teams in the playoff had to play in their championships. Maybe we threw the game against you (just kidding).

Thank you Penn State... Thank you!