How about another bowling alley?

[cquick]

We were talking with friends who wanted to take some relatives bowling. They went to the bowling alley and were very surprised that there are only 2 bowling alleys. I think there's plenty of room ( and bowlers ) for another one in the Brownwood area.

Ideas?

[fred53]

I gather you aren't here in the summer. If you were you'd know that the year round population doesn't begin to fill the two bowling alley's we now have. Perhaps you could suggest a way they could survive the 5/6mos. when the snowbirds have flown the coop.

[bagboy]

It seems the two bowling centers have slowed a bit with respect to maximizing their capacity. Six to eight years ago, it was rather difficult to get into a league, especially if you had a full team of four. Now the centers find the need to advertise for bowlers in the summer and fall leagues. The two centers are owned by the same family. At one time they owned a piece of property on or near 44 (may still do) suitable for a bowling center, but not "in" The Villages therefor not golf cart accessable. The owners are long time bowling proprietors, if a southern center was viable, most likely they would have started by now. Not to say they won't in the future though.
One last note, another property owner on 44 near the old Butterbean/O'Shea location had announced a "bowling center coming soon" near Brownwood. That plan was nixed and they are now building small retail/commercial buildings on that site. All that said, we might not be quite ready for a third center. And there is Leesburg Lanes east of The Villages on 44.

[raynan]

Too bad they wouldn't bring in Candlepin Bowling. You throw 3 small balls per square. Much easier on arthritic hands and less weight to lift. Would be a gold mine here IMO.
Very popular in New England.

[outlaw]

OP, you may be on to something. A TV sales representative told me about a year ago that the number one activity in TV was...bowling! Golf was in the number four spot, iirc.

[golfing eagles]

I'm not so sure another bowling alley in Brownwood wouldn't do well.
We know Villagers love their golf carts, so golf cart accessible lanes would probably pull all the bowlers south of 466A, as well as those just north of 466A. For many who would like to bowl, especially in a league, hiking up to SS every week can be a haul, so I'm sure there are those who just pass on joining. It's the same reason I've never played NL,OB,TD and GC---not worth almost an hour in a golf cart when there are 7 courses between 3 and 25 min away. It would also pull residents of Wildwood, mitigating the seasonal effect

[billybye]

Most Bowling centers around the country are closing due to a decline in bowling. I know it used to be a bowling center needed two evening leagues to break even and them profit came from weekend open bowling. I know we have more daytime leagues than elsewhere, but I doubt if the two centers are making any money at all. Probably just getting by and owners are into bowling themselves, so keeps them busy.

[Bogie Shooter]

It seems the two bowling centers have slowed a bit with respect to maximizing their capacity. Six to eight years ago, it was rather difficult to get into a league, especially if you had a full team of four. Now the centers find the need to advertise for bowlers in the summer and fall leagues. The two centers are owned by the same family. At one time they owned a piece of property on or near 44 (may still do) suitable for a bowling center, but not "in" The Villages therefor not golf cart accessable. The owners are long time bowling proprietors, if a southern center was viable, most likely they would have started by now. Not to say they won't in the future though.
One last note, another property owner on 44 near the old Butterbean/O'Shea location had announced a "bowling center coming soon" near Brownwood. That plan was nixed and they are now building small retail/commercial buildings on that site. All that said, we might not be quite ready for a third center. And there is Leesburg Lanes east of The Villages on 44.

I agree.

[jallseg]

OP, you may be on to something. A TV sales representative told me about a year ago that the number one activity in TV was...bowling! Golf was in the number four spot, iirc.

Yeah, we were told the same thing by our sales rep. New alley coming.
Oh wait ..That was in 1999.

[golfing eagles]

Yeah, we were told the same thing by our sales rep. New alley coming.
Oh wait ..That was in 1999.

Was told the same thing in 2013. At least they are consistent

[tomwed]

I've also heard that bowling was the number one activity a couple of times. I don't get it either. One would think golf or even pickleball. Anybody have any guesses?
It was mm rep 3 years ago? He also said that the designers will start at 500k right about now.

[golfing eagles]

I've also heard that bowling was the number one activity a couple of times. I don't get it either. One would think golf or even pickleball. Anybody have any guesses?
It was mm rep 3 years ago? He also said that the designers will start at 500k right about now.

I would guess it would be hard for 2 bowling alleys to rack up the equivalent of over 3 million rounds of golf/year. Would also be hard to compete with 600+ softball teams and 100+ pickleball courts as well. Might even be hard to compete with seat saving, although that can be a full contact sport:1rotfl:

[bagboy]

I've also heard that bowling was the number one activity a couple of times. I don't get it either. One would think golf or even pickleball. Anybody have any guesses?
It was mm rep 3 years ago? He also said that the designers will start at 500k right about now.

We were told bowling was number one also, and I am clueless as to why that it thought to be the case. I'll explain in another post.

[golfing eagles]

A little further analysis:

If all 64 lanes were being used by 4 bowlers, 12 hours/day, 7 days a week, that would be a capacity of 64x4x12x7x52 = 1,118,208 person hours of bowling, max.
If 3 million rounds of golf were divided 2.5 million exec at 1 1/2 hours and 500,000 champ at 4 1/2 hours, that would be 6 million person-hours of golf, so I just can't see it. Even if we counted a line of bowling as equal to a round of golf, say at 45 min for 4 bowlers to complete a game, then that's 1,490,944 games of bowling vs. 3 million rounds of golf. Either way, I have to doubt that bowling is the #1 sport in TV

[tomwed]

A little further analysis:

If all 64 lanes were being used by 4 bowlers, 12 hours/day, 7 days a week, that would be a capacity of 64x4x12x7x52 = 1,118,208 person hours of bowling, max.
If 3 million rounds of golf were divided 2.5 million exec at 1 1/2 hours and 500,000 champ at 4 1/2 hours, that would be 6 million person-hours of golf, so I just can't see it. Even if we counted a line of bowling as equal to a round of golf, say at 45 min for 4 bowlers to complete a game, then that's 1,490,944 games of bowling vs. 3 million rounds of golf. Either way, I have to doubt that bowling is the #1 sport in TV
What do you take for a math headache? AddVil?

[billethkid]

I gather you aren't here in the summer. If you were you'd know that the year round population doesn't begin to fill the two bowling alley's we now have. Perhaps you could suggest a way they could survive the 5/6mos. when the snowbirds have flown the coop.

These two bowling alleys have been here for many years...for sure the 12 years we have been here.

When talking about the slow VS the busy season there are some things to keep in mind.

In 2004 when the population was 35,000 the bowling alleys were doing fine and always seemed to be busy. For ease of example let us just say the population drops by 50% in the slow season. Something less than 20,000 population base.

Fast forward to today. The latest number I heard was 110,000 and growing. Take away 50% in the slow season.....55,000 population base.....the slow season of today is almost 50% greater than the busy season of 12 years ago.

The developer has consistently added golf courses as TV grows southward.

Must be a reason why somebody other than the developer has not picked up on bowling as a great business opportunity.

I have no idea what the criteria are for adding bowling alleys.

[golfing eagles]

What do you take for a math headache? AddVil?

N@pr0x=n

[bagboy]

Based on 32 lanes, each bowling center here has probably 2,500 league bowlers in the winter season of 32 weeks. Each bowler bowling roughly 100 league games per season. In the shortened summer season, that number probably drops to 1,500 bowlers for 12 weeks, equalling 36 games per season. These guestimates would bring each centers league lineage to 300,000 per year times two centers for a total of 600,000 league games bowled per year.
Because the centers are busy, open and tournament bowling is at a minimum compared to league play. Let's give each center 100,000 lines per year of open and league play. That's almost 1,000 lines per week, which is very generous. This gives the two bowling centers a total of 800,000 lines per year bowled. Which by industry standards is very good. BUT, that number falls way way short of the 2.9 million rounds of golf played each year in The Villages. In my humble opinion, bowling is a distant second to golf.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does it really matter what is first?

[golfing eagles]

Does it really matter what is first?

Yes:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[tomwed]

Does it really matter what is first?
Speaking for myself, I don't care.
What I find interesting is that a number of people have heard bowling is number one when it looks pretty obvious that it is not. It's sort of an suburban myth. It's healthy to be inquisitive. Don't you think?

[Rapscallion St Croix]

I don't think the numbers should be the focus. Let's get to the core issues.

Why doesn't golf have an equivalent "to the "beer frame"? The 19th hole doesn't count as it is post game.

Why is bowling attire so awesome and unique while one can go to Publix or the golf course in the same outfit?

Why is golf so lacking in high fives compared to bowling?

When will golf get automated scorekeeping?

When will golf get black lights, music, and nerf barriers to prevent the ball from going into hazards?

Why can't we rent golf shoes?

Which is more effective in willing the ball to deviate from its current path, the bowling lean or the golf lean?

[tomwed]

[QUOTE=Rapscallion St Croix;1181589]
Why is golf so lacking in high fives compared to bowling?
/QUOTE]
My theory, more golfers then bowlers have rotator cup issues.

[Bogie Shooter]

Speaking for myself, I don't care.
What I find interesting is that a number of people have heard bowling is number one when it looks pretty obvious that it is not. It's sort of an suburban myth. It's healthy to be inquisitive. Don't you think?

Not always.

[tomwed]

Not always.
I always think.

[villagetinker]

Getting back on topic:
We were talking with friends who wanted to take some relatives bowling. They went to the bowling alley and were very surprised that there are only 2 bowling alleys. I think there's plenty of room ( and bowlers ) for another one in the Brownwood area.

Ideas?

As someone that bowls 3 times or more per week, we would be very interested in a new bowling alley south of 466a. Maybe we could actually use the golf cart to get to it, instead of always using the car.

On a side note: bowling in the summer is great, it is air conditioned, bowling in the winter is great, it is heated. We enjoyed some of the previous comments, especially those relating to the number one activity in TV.

Also, I suspect that there may be some additional bowlers that would go to lanes located south of 466a, who do not want to go 10, 12, or miles to SS.

[the square]

Maybe these newbies would like a roller rink to for amusing visitors ..

[Bogie Shooter]

Getting back on topic:


As someone that bowls 3 times or more per week, we would be very interested in a new bowling alley south of 466a. Maybe we could actually use the golf cart to get to it, instead of always using the car.

On a side note: bowling in the summer is great, it is air conditioned, bowling in the winter is great, it is heated. We enjoyed some of the previous comments, especially those relating to the number one activity in TV.

Also, I suspect that there may be some additional bowlers that would go to lanes located south of 466a, who do not want to go 10, 12, or miles to SS.

If they are capable of bowling they should be able to drive 10 miles.
If there was another location added, there could be a concern of drawing bowlers away from the existing lanes. Just wondering if there are enough additional bowlers to fill a house 7 nights a week?

[golfing eagles]

If they are capable of bowling they should be able to drive 10 miles.
If there was another location added, there could be a concern of drawing bowlers away from the existing lanes. Just wondering if there are enough additional bowlers to fill a house 7 nights a week?

I would think IF the 2 existing alleys were profitable in 2004 with a population of 35,000, then 3 alleys would be just as profitable, if not more so with a population of 115,000. Yes, the popularity of bowling has declined, but nowhere near as fast as the growth of TV.

[tomwed]

Do bowlers loose interest because they don't have enough access?

[Shimpy]

I never for one moment believed it when they told me there were more bowlers than golfers.
Actually some bowlers also play golf and some golfers bowl.

[tomwed]

I never for one moment believed it when they told me there were more bowlers than golfers.
Actually some bowlers also play golf and some golfers bowl.
see,,everyone hears that but how could it be

[villagetinker]

Do bowlers loose interest because they don't have enough access?

IMHO, some of the new residents may be less inclined to travel to SS for bowling, where if there was a center closer, they may be more inclined to bowl. A center closer to the Brownwood area, would also tend to foster local or neighborhood teams, just like golf.

Also, lanes in the Brownwood area would have a draw from Wildwood, Leesburg, and surrounding areas. Spanish Springs draws from the surrounding communities.

In our case, we are on teams, and we really enjoy the sport, plus we tend to combine trips, after bowling stop at a store or restaurant. I have not heard of anyone dropping out due to the distance.

I have no idea of the economics of these facilities, so I will not comment.

[justjim]

If it is determined that a 3rd bowling alley would be a profitable investment in or near The Villages, you can bet somebody will build it. Enough said.

[WhoDat]

I would love to bowl but SS is too far from South of 466A. Bowled in a league in my younger years and loved it. Still have my ball and shoes.

[jgm3279]

We are south of 466A~ we drive north to the 2 bowling alleys now. VERY hard to get a lane when there is "open" bowling. We find them usually busy in the "off" season also. Bring on a new bowling alley down here!

[tomwed]

I like it by Brownwood but accept the fact that all the cool stuff is up north. I gave up that there would be the same amenities, only newer down south.

If I make a move, I'm heading to the other end of town.

[golfing eagles]

Do bowlers loose interest because they don't have enough access?

Interestingly, there has been a 30% decline in regular bowlers since 1996. Various on-line sites attribute this to the no smoking laws, as well as enhanced DUI enforcement. Go figure--I thought the point of bowling was bowling, guess I got that wrong:1rotfl:

[billethkid]

I would love to bowl but SS is too far from South of 466A. Bowled in a league in my younger years and loved it. Still have my ball and shoes.

How far did you have to travel back then.

There is not much in TV that is more than 15 minutes away from anywhere else!?!

[tomwed]

Interestingly, there has been a 30% decline in regular bowlers since 1996. Various on-line sites attribute this to the no smoking laws, as well as enhanced DUI enforcement. Go figure--I thought the point of bowling was bowling, guess I got that wrong:1rotfl:
What doesn't work in the world of work sometimes works in the world of retirement. Golf comes to mind. Stickball is another.
The one activity I don't get is Polo. Are the Polo matches well attended? I only went one time. I could appreciate the skill. I don;t recall anyone bringing up a Polo conversation or talking about when they use to play Polo.

[Bogie Shooter]

If it is determined that a 3rd bowling alley would be a profitable investment in or near The Villages, you can bet somebody will build it. Enough said.

What you are saying is just too much common sense for this thread.

[Bogie Shooter]

I like it by Brownwood but accept the fact that all the cool stuff is up north. I gave up that there would be the same amenities, only newer down south.

If I make a move, I'm heading to the other end of town.

Bowling is not a Villages amenity.

[tomwed]

Bowling is not a Villages amenity.
That's true. What would you call it?

I meant business.

[Jima64]

Was told the same thing in 2013. At least they are consistent

Sales people will say anything as long as it isn't in writing .

[Bogie Shooter]

That's true. What would you call it?

amenity
noun ame·ni·ty \ə-ˈme-nə-tē, -ˈmē-\
Simple Definition of amenity
: something that makes life easier or more pleasant

Amenity | Definition of Amenity by Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amenity)
A business.

[Polar Bear]

Bowling is not a Villages amenity.
Villages amenity
Simple definition of Villages amenity
: something covered by The Villages Amenities fee
Source: Basic understanding and common knowledge regarding life in The Villages

[tomwed]

The Villages, FL | Real Estate The Villages, Florida | 55+ Community (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/the-villages#amenities)

They got it wrong too.

[villagetinker]

I would love to bowl but SS is too far from South of 466A. Bowled in a league in my younger years and loved it. Still have my ball and shoes.

We live in Pinellas, and have found going out 466a to Micro Racetrack, then up to Rolling Acres, and 441 to Avandia Central an effective route to bowling. This avoids all but one roundabout, and the backup at the school is usually not bad. By car, typically 20 minutes, on a Sunday, to 25-30 minutes weekday. Traffic is not bad, very few traffic lights and a couple of stop signs. Would love to give you a lift, but we typically take a convertible Mustang and the back seat is small.

As a side note your ball and shoes will be almost useless on the new surfaces. While they worked well on wood, the new synthetic surfaces require new gear. Hope to see you on the lanes some time.

[Polar Bear]

The Villages, FL | Real Estate The Villages, Florida | 55+ Community (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/the-villages#amenities)

They got it wrong too.

Agreed. :)

[tomwed]

Agreed. :)
feel better?

[Polar Bear]

feel better?
Nope. Felt plenty good to begin with. :)

[Bogie Shooter]

The Villages, FL | Real Estate The Villages, Florida | 55+ Community (http://www.55places.com/florida/communities/the-villages#amenities)

They got it wrong too.

Isn't this a ML listing real estate agent? How does he represent what makes up The Villages amenities and are paid for my amenity fees?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

OP, you may be on to something. A TV sales representative told me about a year ago that the number one activity in TV was...bowling! Golf was in the number four spot, iirc.

I've also heard or read that bowling was the number one sport in TV.

[Chi-Town]

I've also heard or read that bowling was the number one sport in TV.
I heard that on the trolley tour during a lifestyle preview visit in '09.

[tomwed]

I wonder how many bowling balls get lost a year?