A New Multi-Modal Path Discussion Group

[twoplanekid]

According to the other online news source, the PWAC may resurrect the Multi-Modal Path Discussion Group which will include representation from CDD 1-10 and the Amenity Authority Committee. Topics for discussion might consist of better signage and more speed bumps.

What do you feel should be their focus? Should they concentrate on new or older users of the paths?

As a newer golf cart driver, I feel that all new golf cart users should attend the VHA Safety clinic. If everyone who plays pickle ball is required to go to BP101, the BP 101 practice, then PB102, etc., then all new golf cart drivers should start with the VHA Safety clinic.

[justjim]

Maybe golf class 101 before playing on a golf course. Just kidding--of course. I have no problem with a safety course if someone wants to take it, however, the very serious accidents (fatal) in TV do not usually occur on the MMP'S.

[Fredman]

According to the other online news source, the PWAC may resurrect the Multi-Modal Path Discussion Group which will include representation from CDD 1-10 and the Amenity Authority Committee. Topics for discussion might consist of better signage and more speed bumps.

What do you feel should be their focus? Should they concentrate on new or older users of the paths?

As a newer golf cart driver, I feel that all new golf cart users should attend the VHA Safety clinic. If everyone who plays pickle ball is required to go to BP101, the BP 101 practice, then PB102, etc., then all new golf cart drivers should start with the VHA Safety clinic.

We don't need speed bumps on the cart paths

[golf2140]

Stop beating a dead horse!!! Please

[outlaw]

According to the other online news source, the PWAC may resurrect the Multi-Modal Path Discussion Group which will include representation from CDD 1-10 and the Amenity Authority Committee. Topics for discussion might consist of better signage and more speed bumps.

What do you feel should be their focus? Should they concentrate on new or older users of the paths?

As a newer golf cart driver, I feel that all new golf cart users should attend the VHA Safety clinic. If everyone who plays pickle ball is required to go to BP101, the BP 101 practice, then PB102, etc., then all new golf cart drivers should start with the VHA Safety clinic.

You really are into mandates, aren't you? No large soda drinks anymore, too? And you don't have to go to any PB course to play PB. Just get three other people and go play. But wear a helmet, elbow and knee guards, shatter proof glasses, 50+ sun screen...

[Polar Bear]

...If everyone who plays pickle ball is required to go to BP101...
Simply not true.

[twoplanekid]

You really are into mandates, aren't you? No large soda drinks anymore, too? And you don't have to go to any PB course to play PB. Just get three other people and go play. But wear a helmet, elbow and knee guards, shatter proof glasses, 50+ sun screen...

Can you compete in league play without going through the courses? Surly taking the courses are a good thing?

[DonH57]

Stop beating a dead horse!!! Please

There are several dead horses on TOTV to choose from!:popcorn:

[Polar Bear]

Can you compete in league play without going through the courses?...

Not what you originally said.

[twoplanekid]

Stop beating a dead horse!!! Please

While this discussion may be a dead horse for some on this forum, our elected officials may again start to look at adjustments to the multi modal trails according to the discussions at the last PWAC meeting.

[twoplanekid]

Not what you originally said.

You are correct. I was thinking about learning to play well so I could try playing in a league.

[Topspinmo]

The POA bulletin that dropped off monthly in your driveway on front page has MMP rules of the road, Everything you ever wanted to know about MMP:boom:
On page 8 It takes about the stripping. I interpreted it as all 42 miles in districts 1 thru 10 will get stripped starting in May June time frame when the snowbirds fly away. I also interpered the discussion is over! It's going to be done. Anybody else read the bulletin?

lots of other information in there also.

[Bay Kid]

Less, not more, speed bumps.

[mulligan]

Perhaps I'll make an inquiry as to weather they will hire professional strippers, or use local wrinklies.

[graciegirl]

I am so glad that most of the folks who get excited about moving to this amazing place go to play golf or pickleball, do ceramics or water color, ride bikes, run, walk, play cards, sing in groups, do civic theatre, swim, or hang out in the evening having a social drink or two.


Very few move here to attend meetings to change things or run things.


For that I am very grateful. This place is dang nigh perfect.


Long live the Royal Family.

[DonH57]

Perhaps I'll make an inquiry as to weather they will hire professional strippers, or use local wrinklies.

Should always hire professional.:D

[outlaw]

Some folks like to go to meetings and talk about stripping OR Striping.. Others like to talk about how nice this place is and how amazing the folks are that thought it all out.

.

It wasn't the "billion-heirs" that thought it out. That person is deceased. I applaud Gary Morse for his vision and effort, but some have taken it to a cult worship level. And I don't think his children have the same interest for the residents as Gary. But time will tell.

[graciegirl]

It wasn't the "billion-heirs" that thought it out. That person is deceased. I applaud Gary Morse for his vision and effort, but some have taken it to a cult worship level. And I don't think his children have the same interest for the residents as Gary. But time will tell.



Do you know how folks get to be Billionaires? Work. I am a HUGE fan of Capitalism. Free Enterprise. The American Dream. Never belonged to a cult.


Harold was very lucky to have a son who turned his good idea into an amazingly thought out plan that no one has come close to duplicating. I also like Jonas Salk and a bunch of medical heros. Not much into soccer. Each of us have our own heros to look up to.


AND I don't see a thing to complain about with Mark, Jennifer and Tracy. They could have walked away because their inheritance could keep them living well for many lifetimes, but they are still working. Yep. Still working. And still keeping thousands of people working. Could THAT be part of their motive?

[villagetinker]

I really do not have a dog in this fight, as I very rarely use the golf cart, way too dangerous, I use the car.
However, speed bumps sound like a bad idea. I can just see items being knocked out of the cart (clubs, balls, drinks, KIDS), and the driver stopping suddenly, you get the idea.
Possibly additional signage, and MAYBE the squiggly lines that are used in Europe might be useful. I am not a traffic engineer, so I will defer to the experts.

Unfortunately, you cannot enforce COMMON SENSE, and I know that when the cost comes up there will be a huge split and discussion (or arguments) over this.
Balanced discussion would be good to provide the delegates with sufficient background to provide a stance that REPRESENTS THE MAJORITY OF TV.

Just my humble thoughts, please do not shoot the messenger.

[Topspinmo]

As far as the Morse family I have no problem with them, as far I am concerned they done great things and are rewarded for it, success!


Might as well get over it the MMP will have strips. Let's move on to why there not enough golf holes. I'll be the first to say it any thing going to break the bank is course maintenance of 630 plus holes and planting annual flowers every three months (and just when the looking pretty they pull them up) before, in, and after roundabouts where perennials should be planted due safety concerns and financial responsibility. LOW perennials so you can see traffic over the plants. Never could figure out why plant high bushes (or they are over grown) blocking traffic entering the road? I am surprised the monthly fees haven't gone up? I suspect it's coming? Then we will really have something to complain about!

[tuccillo]

I believe any increase in the monthly amenities fee is tied to the CPI.

As far as the Morse family I have no problem with them, as far I am concerned they done great things and are rewarded for it, success!


Might as well get over it the MMP will have strips. Let's move on to why there not enough golf holes. I'll be the first to say it any thing going to break the bank is course maintenance of 630 plus holes and planting annual flowers every three months (and just when the looking pretty they pull them up) before, in, and after roundabouts where perennials should be planted due safety concerns and financial responsibility. LOW perennials so you can see traffic over the plants. Never could figure out why plant high bushes (or they are over grown) blocking traffic entering the road? I am surprised the monthly fees haven't gone up? I suspect it's coming? Then we will really have something to complain about!

[Bogie Shooter]

As far as the Morse family I have no problem with them, as far I am concerned they done great things and are rewarded for it, success!


Might as well get over it the MMP will have strips. Let's move on to why there not enough golf holes. I'll be the first to say it any thing going to break the bank is course maintenance of 630 plus holes and planting annual flowers every three months (and just when the looking pretty they pull them up) before, in, and after roundabouts where perennials should be planted due safety concerns and financial responsibility. LOW perennials so you can see traffic over the plants. Never could figure out why plant high bushes (or they are over grown) blocking traffic entering the road? I am surprised the monthly fees haven't gone up? I suspect it's coming? Then we will really have something to complain about!

How many golf holes is enough?
BTW all plantings in the roundabouts are being reviewed and if blocking view of traffic, it is being corrected.

[rubicon]

The POA bulletin that dropped off monthly in your driveway on front page has MMP rules of the road, Everything you ever wanted to know about MMP:boom:
On page 8 It takes about the stripping. I interpreted it as all 42 miles in districts 1 thru 10 will get stripped starting in May June time frame when the snowbirds fly away. I also interpered the discussion is over! It's going to be done. Anybody else read the bulletin?

lots of other information in there also.

topspinmo: I did indeed read that POA Bulletin and was left with the impression that the POA is again meddling . It all appeared to be overkill

[tuccillo]

I believe what they stated was that striping and RPMs (reflective pavement markings) would be implemented for island medians, trail-side obstructions, and roundabouts only. I did not interpret this as striping everywhere. Assuming this is in fact true, it sounds like a reasonable plan.

The POA bulletin that dropped off monthly in your driveway on front page has MMP rules of the road, Everything you ever wanted to know about MMP:boom:
On page 8 It takes about the stripping. I interpreted it as all 42 miles in districts 1 thru 10 will get stripped starting in May June time frame when the snowbirds fly away. I also interpered the discussion is over! It's going to be done. Anybody else read the bulletin?

lots of other information in there also.

[tuccillo]

I read the article as saying that a legislative change to Chapter 316 of the Florida Statues would need to be made in order to enforce speed limits on the MMPs. I did not read anything that would indicate that this is actually being pursued. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.



topspinmo: I did indeed read that POA Bulletin and was left with the impression that the POA is again meddling . In that article are statement such as Statute 312 is being revised to allow LOE to police and to insert traffic devices on MMP's. It also speaks to the fact that if a golf cart is set to go over 20mph then the owner is guilty even if s/he never goes over 20mph.

so its like my car can go well over 100mph . If I exceed the limit then I can get a ticket and should accept the responsibility but not simply because it can go 100mph. I am aware of the vehicle law about the difference between a LSV and a golf cart but this is a bit much and a bit of an intentional stretch by government .

Further I am one who wants government out of my life and we have the POA promoting more oversight. So take the changes to Statue 312 to its illogical conclusions because that is where their heading.

My over view for all of this is that TVLSI designed this community to be golf cart friendly, in fact so that the main mode of transportation , replacing a car, would be a golf cart. This same TVLSI built MMP's which I believe was poor planning. This same TVLSI continues its build out.

Safety yes but not one agency has done an indepth study concerning this issue. To me its like the same argument authorities made for red light cameras (safety). Well they created more harm than good and many cities etc rigged them to collect a larger share of revenue until a judge made LOE remove them. If these changes come to pass it will have a negligible affect on accidents statistics but will certainly create more bottle necks on the MMP's. Its easy to argue safety until you find yourself behind several slow moving carts that are averaging 12-14 mph

Arguing this issue is like arguing whether government should be collecting megadata (Security/safety v privacy) concerns. I always vote the latter because I am a George Orwell fan.

[golf2140]

topspinmo: I did indeed read that POA Bulletin and was left with the impression that the POA is again meddling . In that article are statement such as Statute 312 is being revised to allow LOE to police and to insert traffic devices on MMP's. It also speaks to the fact that if a golf cart is set to go over 20mph then the owner is guilty even if s/he never goes over 20mph.

so its like my car can go well over 100mph . If I exceed the limit then I can get a ticket and should accept the responsibility but not simply because it can go 100mph. I am aware of the vehicle law about the difference between a LSV and a golf cart but this is a bit much and a bit of an intentional stretch by government .

Further I am one who wants government out of my life and we have the POA promoting more oversight. So take the changes to Statue 312 to its illogical conclusions because that is where their heading.

My over view for all of this is that TVLSI designed this community to be golf cart friendly, in fact so that the main mode of transportation , replacing a car, would be a golf cart. This same TVLSI built MMP's which I believe was poor planning. This same TVLSI continues its build out.

Safety yes but not one agency has done an indepth study concerning this issue. To me its like the same argument authorities made for red light cameras (safety). Well they created more harm than good and many cities etc rigged them to collect a larger share of revenue until a judge made LOE remove them. If these changes come to pass it will have a negligible affect on accidents statistics but will certainly create more bottle necks on the MMP's. Its easy to argue safety until you find yourself behind several slow moving carts that are averaging 12-14 mph

Arguing this issue is like arguing whether government should be collecting megadata (Security/safety v privacy) concerns. I always vote the latter because I am a George Orwell fan.

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[tuccillo]

Regarding golf course maintenance, slightly more than half the holes (324) are executive courses that are maintained by the amenities fee. I assume you were referring to executive courses when you referred to "breaking the bank". The rest of the holes are championship courses which are presumably maintained by those that choose to pay their greens fees. Over the next two years or so, I believe another 4000 houses will be built without the addition of any more executive courses. Obtaining tee times on the executive courses will become a bit harder as these homes become occupied.

As far as the Morse family I have no problem with them, as far I am concerned they done great things and are rewarded for it, success!


Might as well get over it the MMP will have strips. Let's move on to why there not enough golf holes. I'll be the first to say it any thing going to break the bank is course maintenance of 630 plus holes and planting annual flowers every three months (and just when the looking pretty they pull them up) before, in, and after roundabouts where perennials should be planted due safety concerns and financial responsibility. LOW perennials so you can see traffic over the plants. Never could figure out why plant high bushes (or they are over grown) blocking traffic entering the road? I am surprised the monthly fees haven't gone up? I suspect it's coming? Then we will really have something to complain about!

[Topspinmo]

The safety issue I was taking about in flower bed maintenance in and around the roundabouts with annuals. Not golf cart speed limit. As far as I am concerned there nothing wrong with golf carts maximum speed limit of 20 MPH. ok I read the article again strips and reflectors on blind corners, where path splits and around tunnels. What ever the engineer recommended in May 2015? So as now I interpret it on straight parts no center lines or side lines?

[Barefoot]

While this discussion may be a dead horse for some on this forum, our elected officials may again start to look at adjustments to the multi modal trails according to the discussions at the last PWAC meeting.Please stay on top of it and let us know the outcome. :popcorn:

[Bogie Shooter]

Be careful what you ask for..........

[PennBF]

Although the POA does great work I think in the case of the Striping, etc. they have adopted it as a "cause" as opposed to reporting. Within the cause they have separated it between curb painting and center stripes. This has angered some of the residents since anytime you establish something as a "cause" you become the target of those that have just as strong an opinion against the POA adopted position. This obviously is something that should be left to The Village Management to remove the POA from being placed in a negative posture with a good percentages of residents. :ohdear:

[graciegirl]

Yeah well.

[billethkid]

How did we make it all these years?

[golfing eagles]

Speed bumps???? Seriously?????

The speed limit on MMPs is 20 mph. A legal golf cart should not exceed 20. Therefore, no need for "speed bumps"

[Barefoot]

Please stay on top of it and let us know the outcome. :popcorn:
Be careful what you ask for..........
Bogie, I was kidding. I think that the topic of striping and stripping has already been thoroughly debated in numerous threads!

[rubicon]

It is obvious that the police, District, Developer, etc monitor this forum at least it seems a logical to do so.

some posters have a tendency to only see what is in front of them. The build out continues. The MMP's are getting clogged for the same reason highways do. The same driver who believes every vehicle should not go any faster than s/he and blocks the left passing lane is the same driver who is on the MMP at between 12- 15 mph

For a community whose vision was that the golf cart would be a second car perhaps a first ought to carefully consider for what rules they apply. Let's hope those powers to be are not myopic

[outlaw]

Kinda silly how grown adults can get so put out regarding a 25 mph golf cart. Bicycles can go faster than that. Get a life.

[billethkid]

At 65 mph at the end of one hour one will be 3 miles further.

Now drop that to 25 (vs 20 legal limit) and an average time of maybe 20 + minutes.

I did not turn the crank on the math but it should be obvious the 5 additional mph are no big advantage except the wind in the hair and aggrivation to be behind someone going 20 mph!
:ho:

[Walter123]

Kinda silly how grown adults can get so put out regarding a 25 mph golf cart. Bicycles can go faster than that. Get a life.

IMO 25 mph non street legal carts are as dangerous as their drivers.

[Polar Bear]

IMO 25 mph non street legal carts are as dangerous as their drivers.
So any non street legal cart capable of going 25 mph is driven by a bad driver?

Wow. :ohdear:

(Edit for benefit of the doubt): Or do you mean if a driver is a good, safe driver, then a 25 mph cart driven by him/her is also safe? If so, please disregard the previous portion of this post. :) )

[outlaw]

IMO 25 mph non street legal carts are as dangerous as their drivers.

Yes. They are so much more dangerous than a 22 mph golf cart.

[looneycat]

Perhaps I'll make an inquiry as to weather they will hire professional strippers, or use local wrinklies.

i was trying to figure out whether weather was the right whether....correcting grammar is a slippery slope.

[timnuss]

I am not in favor of mandates, regulations, required classes, etc for golf cart users. To me the biggest safety issue is the extremely bright headlights, especially on the newer carts; they totally blind an oncoming cart driver. I would like to see an outreach program to cart owners and cart repair shops about dimming lights and keeping them properly aligned. If a cart has low and high beams, be considerate and use them. Maintain the alignment of cart headlights. I don't think we would need striping, reflectors, etc. if the headlight issue was resolved.

[villagetinker]

They blind on coming car drivers also!!

[Carl in Tampa]

Less, not more, speed bumps.


"FEWER, not less," said the Grammar Pedant.

(Click on cartoon for larger picture.)

[Topspinmo]

I am not in favor of mandates, regulations, required classes, etc for golf cart users. To me the biggest safety issue is the extremely bright headlights, especially on the newer carts; they totally blind an oncoming cart driver. I would like to see an outreach program to cart owners and cart repair shops about dimming lights and keeping them properly aligned. If a cart has low and high beams, be considerate and use them. Maintain the alignment of cart headlights. I don't think we would need striping, reflectors, etc. if the headlight issue was resolved.

Haven't seen cart with low or high beams and most are made to shine straight ahead. how about the add on led lights. They blind everybody facing them? How about People driving around with fog light on when there no fog. how about trucks jacked up with lift kits and big tires and the headlights blinding everyone in front of them. I avoid driving at night if possible, give me migraine pretty quick! O don't forget the person driving with their high beams on. Reason I mentioned this really hard to see in the diamond lanes from cars or carts.

I need to get me one of them freight train lights mount is right in the center. That way it will sweep from side to side lighting up area like day light. As long as I can see that's all that counts:popcorn:

Now that I think about it lighting does need some regulation:bigbow:

[Bonsai Golfer]

I read the article as saying that a legislative change to Chapter 316 of the Florida Statues would need to be made in order to enforce speed limits on the MMPs. I did not read anything that would indicate that this is actually being pursued. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

First of all, I'm not in favor of more committees whose members will just feel like they have to do "something." It's in there very nature.

I also read the article that mentioned looking into a change to Fl statutes to enforce speed limits on MMPs. What a great idea! With that change we can divert law enforcement from the streets where cars routinely travel 20-30 mph over the speed limit to the MMPs where we can snag grandpa racing along at 2-3 miles an hour over the limit in his golf cart. By god, I know I'll sleep better at night knowing no one is going to pass me on that path as I head to my golf game.

I also read that driving a golf cart capable of exceeding 20 mph is a "criminal" offense requiring a court appearance yet, after checking the FL motor vehicle statues, I found that automobile speeding up to 29 mph is a "civil" offense not requiring a court appearance. Have we lost our minds?

[JoMar]

Haven't seen cart with low or high beams and most are made to shine straight ahead. how about the add on led lights. They blind everybody facing them? How about People driving around with fog light on when there no fog. how about trucks jacked up with lift kits and big tires and the headlights blinding everyone in front of them. I avoid driving at night if possible, give me migraine pretty quick! O don't forget the person driving with their high beams on. Reason I mentioned this really hard to see in the diamond lanes from cars or carts.

I need to get me one of them freight train lights mount is right in the center. That way it will sweep from side to side lighting up area like day light. As long as I can see that's all that counts:popcorn:

Now that I think about it lighting does need some regulation:bigbow:

Finally, someone willing to stand up and admit they have a problem driving at night in their cart and have taken the steps to not drive at night. Thank You.

[JoMar]

First of all, I'm not in favor of more committees whose members will just feel like they have to do "something." It's in there very nature.

I also read the article that mentioned looking into a change to Fl statutes to enforce speed limits on MMPs. What a great idea! With that change we can divert law enforcement from the streets where cars routinely travel 20-30 mph over the speed limit to the MMPs where we can snag grandpa racing along at 2-3 miles an hour over the limit in his golf cart. By god, I know I'll sleep better at night knowing no one is going to pass me on that path as I head to my golf game.

I also read that driving a golf cart capable of exceeding 20 mph is a "criminal" offense requiring a court appearance yet, after checking the FL motor vehicle statues, I found that automobile speeding up to 29 mph is a "civil" offense not requiring a court appearance. Have we lost our minds?

Don't think so....:)

[Walter123]

Yes. They are so much more dangerous than a 22 mph golf cart.

The legal speed limit for a non-street legal cart is 19.8 mph not 22 so get your facts straight. And yes, they are dangerous because those are the ones that tailgate and pass unsafely.

[Walter123]

So any non street legal cart capable of going 25 mph is driven by a bad driver?

Wow. :ohdear:

(Edit for benefit of the doubt): Or do you mean if a driver is a good, safe driver, then a 25 mph cart driven by him/her is also safe? If so, please disregard the previous portion of this post. :) )

The legal speed limit for a non street legal cart is 19.8 mph. Anyone going faster than that has the potential of doing something stupid and dangerous. Is your cart legal? Just wondering.

[Polar Bear]

The legal speed limit for a non street legal cart is 19.8 mph. Anyone going faster than that has the potential of doing something stupid and dangerous. Is your cart legal? Just wondering.

And nobody who goes 19.8 mph or slower has the potential of doing something stupid and dangerous? I'm really not sure where to go with that...it's wrong on so many levels.

[Bigben007]

The legal speed limit for a non-street legal cart is 19.8 mph not 22 so get your facts straight. And yes, they are dangerous because those are the ones that tailgate and pass unsafely.

19.8 is fast enough for a golf cart. Why the quest for faster speed? We're retire, slow down and enjoy the scenery.

[Polar Bear]

And 70 MPH is fast enough for a car. Do you really want Big Brother telling you that your car can't be capable of going faster than 70?

[outlaw]

The legal speed limit for a non-street legal cart is 19.8 mph not 22 so get your facts straight. And yes, they are dangerous because those are the ones that tailgate and pass unsafely.

Interested in where you came up with 19.8 mph. My recollection is the legal speed limit is "not to exceed 20 mph".

[outlaw]

Personally, I have found 22-23 mph to be quite safe. Really no difference in 20 mph wrt handling. I have experienced 26 mph in a golf carts a couple of times, and at that speed, the golf cart felt unsafe because of handling characteristics. Compare that to 30 mph in a roundabout, which to me, feels unsafe. And 100 mph on anything but a track feels unsafe to me.

[DonH57]

Interested in where you came up with 19.8 mph. My recollection is the legal speed limit is "not to exceed 20 mph".

I think some get that number confused on the setting when a gas cart governer begins kickdown and resets back to speed up.

[Walter123]

Interested in where you came up with 19.8 mph. My recollection is the legal speed limit is "not to exceed 20 mph".

Don't know exactly but read it somewhere. For arguments sake let's go with 20 mph. Everything else I said still applies.

[Walter123]

Personally, I have found 22-23 mph to be quite safe. Really no difference in 20 mph wrt handling. I have experienced 26 mph in a golf carts a couple of times, and at that speed, the golf cart felt unsafe because of handling characteristics. Compare that to 30 mph in a roundabout, which to me, feels unsafe. And 100 mph on anything but a track feels unsafe to me.

The speed limit in a roundabout is 20 mph not 30. I think to go 30 mph you would need some kind of sports car so no wonder you feel that 30 is unsafe. Try 20 mph and you will feel safer.

[Walter123]

I think some get that number confused on the setting when a gas cart governer begins kickdown and resets back to speed up.

You may be right.

[outlaw]

The speed limit in a roundabout is 20 mph not 30. I think to go 30 mph you would need some kind of sports car so no wonder you feel that 30 is unsafe. Try 20 mph and you will feel safer.

Yes. I do 20 mph. I allegedly tried it at 30 under a controlled situation to see what it was like.

[memason]

Yes. I do 20 mph. I allegedly tried it at 30 under a controlled situation to see what it was like.

I've found at 50mph, you can get a nice 4 wheel drift going on... In a drift, you can use both lanes, so you have no one next to you....much safer way to navigate the roundabouts!

[outlaw]

I've found at 50mph, you can get a nice 4 wheel drift going on... In a drift, you can use both lanes, so you have no one next to you....much safer way to navigate the roundabouts!

Now that sounds like fun! I used to do a little bit of drifting (very poorly) with my sports car until I blew out a $500 tire. Now I only try it on rainy days...