This man could be pivotal in any bailouts...

[Guest]

and I suppose we are happy having someone like this, who a few years ago, was touted by Speaker Pelosi as the man with the plans...

"Last month, a story in the New York Times pointed to another potential problem. It suggested that Rangel preserved a tax break for an oil-drilling company in exchange for a $1-million contribution to the planned public-policy school. Since then, calls have increased for Rangel to step back from chairing the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, at least while the investigation continues."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-rangel8-2008dec08,0,2633119.story

" Speaker Nancy Pelosi took stewardship of the House two years ago with a pledge to "drain the swamp" and clean up ethical abuses in Congress. Now an investigation of one of her party's best-known members is putting her in an uncomfortable spot."

[Guest]

The article and your observations are right on, Bucco. You won't find me defending Speaker Pelosi, Rangel, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid or many more of the cabal of self-serving legislators in the Congress. The ship of state turns slowly. Maybe the voters will clean them out the next time around. In the meantime, I hope that the President-elect can control any outrageous Congressional behavior from the bully pulpit and with the veto pen.

[Guest]

The article and your observations are right on, Bucco. You won't find me defending Speaker Pelosi, Rangel, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid or many more of the cabal of self-serving legislators in the Congress. The ship of state turns slowly. Maybe the voters will clean them out the next time around. In the meantime, I hope that the President-elect can control any outrageous Congressional behavior from the bully pulpit and with the veto pen.
The odds of "President Obama" using the veto on any bill coming from a Democratic-majority Congress is the same as the Detroit Lions having the most players at the Pro Bowl in Honolulu. Mr. Obama will not bite the hand that feeds him, and the DNC is not dumb enough to let itself be put into an intra-party fight.

The Democratic Congressional leadership has a lot more years individually in "business" (as elected officials and within the DNC) than the President-elect, and his survival and legacy is 100% hitched to their wagon, not the other way around. That has already been shown by the cabinet picks (most of which I actually like!).

[Guest]

The article and your observations are right on, Bucco. You won't find me defending Speaker Pelosi, Rangel, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid or many more of the cabal of self-serving legislators in the Congress. The ship of state turns slowly. Maybe the voters will clean them out the next time around. In the meantime, I hope that the President-elect can control any outrageous Congressional behavior from the bully pulpit and with the veto pen.

We've been saying "next time around" and "Congress" for so many years now that it's an oxymoron to use the words in the same sentence.:cus:.

[Guest]

The article and your observations are right on, Bucco. You won't find me defending Speaker Pelosi, Rangel, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid or many more of the cabal of self-serving legislators in the Congress. The ship of state turns slowly. Maybe the voters will clean them out the next time around. In the meantime, I hope that the President-elect can control any outrageous Congressional behavior from the bully pulpit and with the veto pen.

MY OPINION...those you named are DIRECTLY responsible for the current financial crisis and if there is any impeachments, THEY should be at the top of the list !

President Obama is beholden to those you named by the way !!!

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bucco;176919]MY OPINION...those you named are DIRECTLY responsible for the current financial crisis and if there is any impeachments, THEY should be at the top of the list !

President Obama is beholden to those you named by the way !!![/QUOTE

Sometimes I just don't understand....The Republicans took over power in the House and Senate during the Clinton administration, then they had total control until the 2006 election cycle.

And it's the Democrats fault. :ohdear::shrug:

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bucco;176919]MY OPINION...those you named are DIRECTLY responsible for the current financial crisis and if there is any impeachments, THEY should be at the top of the list !

President Obama is beholden to those you named by the way !!![/QUOTE

Sometimes I just don't understand....The Republicans took over power in the House and Senate during the Clinton administration, then they had total control until the 2006 election cycle.

And it's the Democrats fault. :ohdear::shrug:

WOW..now I am recalling the campaign. You folks are ALWAYS correct...NEVER WRONG.

I was speaking of ONE SINGLE SITUATION and that was the current financial situation ...THAT IS WHAT I alluded to.....and you bring up President Clinton...WOW.....have you not been paying attention to the congressional committees and what they have done the last few years....do you not know the involvement of Dodd, Frank, Rangel, etc in this fiasco ??????

I was talkng about the financial crisis...PLEASE take off the party blinders PLEASE !

[Guest]

[QUOTE=cologal;176932]

WOW..now I am recalling the campaign. You folks are ALWAYS correct...NEVER WRONG.

I was speaking of ONE SINGLE SITUATION and that was the current financial situation ...THAT IS WHAT I alluded to.....and you bring up President Clinton...WOW.....have you not been paying attention to the congressional committees and what they have done the last few years....do you not know the involvement of Dodd, Frank, Rangel, etc in this fiasco ??????

I was talking about the financial crisis...PLEASE take off the party blinders PLEASE !

When you take off yours then I will take off mine. The current situation is being caused by a number of factors. When Clinton left office we had a budget surplus. The Republican controlled Congress left their fiscal conservative values at the door and spent out their a**. They also cut taxes which lowered our ability to pay the bills. Just for fun they attacked a country that did not attack us. And told the country it would be a quick one. All the billions down the crapper with that one. They passed laws to ensure the little people would have a difficult time to file bankruptcy. But made it much easier for "Investment Banks" to run amok. Bush Sr. negotiated NAFTA but Clinton signed it into law. Shame on both of them.

Then when the sh** hit the fan...who got the help? The same people who caused the problem.

Whose paying now? 1.5 million jobs lost. Have you been in a store lately? The sales staff are lonely.....


have you not been paying attention to the congressional committees and what they have done the last few years Sure I have the Republicans controlled them for 8 years Bucco. I watched what they did and now we are all watching what that policy has reaped.

[Guest]

I kind of agree with Cologal. Again, not defending any of the named Congressional "perpatrators" but remember, each of them only gets one vote, just like every othyer member of Congress. During the entire twenty years or so when the laws and regulatory changes occurred that lead us to the current financial crisis the control of the Congress flipped back and forth between the parties with neither party ever having a dominant majority. There have been three Presidents since the oft-criticized Community Reinvestment Act was passed. The elected representatives named above had positions of leadership in the Congress, no doubt. But to say that they are the ones directly responsible avoids the fact that hundreds of other members of the House and Senate, and three Presidents who had to sign any legislation during those years, were ALL responsible for the current state of affairs.

As importantly, WE"RE all responsible because we stood by and gleefully watched our home values skyrocket while refinancing to "take equity out" every few years. WE are as culpable as those we elected that let this stuff happen!

I don't agree that President-elect Obama is "beholden" to the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Dodd and Frank and I remain hopeful that he will use his position to temper the out-of-control spending, amending and earmarking that has become so commonplace in our national government. Time will tell.

The ship of state turns slowly. But as we saw in the recent election...it DOES turn!

[Guest]

Kahuna,

Ah, once again the voice of reason speaks. :thumbup:

..As you say, school is still out on our president elect. He's got to do more than talk the talk, and he needs to start on day one if he's to have any credibility. Time will tell...

[Guest]

each of them only gets one vote, just like every othyer member of Congress.
__________________________________________________ __________--

I mentioned LEADERSHIP, and you know as well as I, they exert much much more power than ONE VOTE !!!

I abhor the spending of the last 8 years, but NOBODY seems to want the heads of those guys who ran the committees and were WARNED TWO YEARS ago that this was happening. From my point of view they advocated the situation that caused the credit crisis and they did it for political reasons !!!

[Guest]

I kind of agree with Cologal. Again, not defending any of the named Congressional "perpatrators" but remember, each of them only gets one vote, just like every othyer member of Congress. During the entire twenty years or so when the laws and regulatory changes occurred that lead us to the current financial crisis the control of the Congress flipped back and forth between the parties with neither party ever having a dominant majority. There have been three Presidents since the oft-criticized Community Reinvestment Act was passed. The elected representatives named above had positions of leadership in the Congress, no doubt. But to say that they are the ones directly responsible avoids the fact that hundreds of other members of the House and Senate, and three Presidents who had to sign any legislation during those years, were ALL responsible for the current state of affairs.

As importantly, WE"RE all responsible because we stood by and gleefully watched our home values skyrocket while refinancing to "take equity out" every few years. WE are as culpable as those we elected that let this stuff happen!

I don't agree that President-elect Obama is "beholden" to the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Dodd and Frank and I remain hopeful that he will use his position to temper the out-of-control spending, amending and earmarking that has become so commonplace in our national government. Time will tell.

The ship of state turns slowly. But as we saw in the recent election...it DOES turn!



You and Cologal can blame everything on the Bush administration as you seem to do, but in this case.....

1. I abhor the spending of the last 8 years and that is with a Republican led congress...agreed. NEVER said other wise.

2. I am and was for the tax cuts. I know we are going to "get it in the shorts" for the next few years with all the promises made, but I am and will always opposed to the heavy taxation.

3. I believe that the congressional leaders I mentioned, especially the Barney Franks of the world KNEW two years ago what could happen and sold out for votes.

4. I think you will find over the next few years that our new President is beholden to a lot of folks with socialist ideas..I believed it before the election and I believe it EVEN MORE STRONGLY TODAY. His associations are 100% of tghe same ilk but we have been totally smitten with the golden tongue.

5. As I said in my response earlier...those I mentioned had more than one vote in reality and you all know that.

I am not pointing fingers at simply Democrats...Cologal seems to feel obligate to protect the Democrats...I do not feel that way about Republicans and have said so many times and am saying it here with my item #1. The leadership of the last TWO years has been deeply involved with Fanniemae, etc and we all know it...why defend them because they are Democrats...I just dont get it. The leaders who had hearings on the areas that fell apart happen to be Democrats...so what.....who cares....they, as individuals blew it and why defend them ?

I am telling you...I am TOTALLY disappointed in the Bush administration..I am not sure what folks want me to do...simply bash him over and over or what.
I am telling you that these senate leaders deserve NO support from you folks.
They are the ones who got us here...and that is a fact !

[Guest]

There still seems to be a sense of "My party is always right, and your party is always wrong" creeping into many posts. I never could understand how folk can't seem to accept that politics has a seedy side, members of both parties engage in seedy behavior.

The Bush administration did a lot of good regarding national security and the rebuilding of the intelligence agencies. However, the administration failed on many other fronts when it strayed from the centrist and right-of-center philosophies which got Pes. Bush elected.

The Democratic congressional leadership fulfilled its role as the "loyal opposition" the last eight years, and some good legislation occurred through bipartisan acion. However, the Democratic party in this lame duck session has demonstrated a total disregard for the common man - who the party claims to be its core constituency - with the hurry-hurry let's blow money attitude, and all of the money going out the door with no oversight, planning, and all in the direction of existing multi-millionaires with no "trickle-down" to help the "little guy" at all.

It's no longer a matter of party. It' a matter of specifically named human beings who have taken exceptional care of themselves and their cronies, and screwed all of us in the bargain. We know who they are, and some have a "D" and others have an "R" attached to their party tag. THe question is, will we continue to vote these self-serving &%&#@(*$ back in office again?

Party be darned - how about voting for ethical and honorable PEOPLE, instead of believing that the party - whichever one - can be trusted, and that party endorsement is a plus. After the last dozen years, party endorsement to me is the kiss of death...

[Guest]

Bucco....

Cologal seems to feel obligate to protect the Democrats. No I don't feel obligated to protect the Democrats but people on this website have blamed Carter, Clinton and the recently elected Democratic House and Senate for the problems.... I forget a frequent targeting of the poor people.

Bush and the Republican held Senate and House played a large role in the current state of affairs. If you ship jobs to cheaper labor markets how can you keep the American economy live? Our economy depends on the housing market and spending power of the middle class. If you cut taxes and spend out your A** it will bite you in the same.

The middle class was attacked by those in power for the past 8 years and now we are seeing the effects of that. Of course, some people in trouble now over spent. Many people lost their jobs and therefore can't pay the bills. Some people lost health care benefits got sick and are now in trouble.

There are many factors....but to say that, as you did in your post, only Reid, Frank, Pelosi and Dodd should be impeached is totally ridiculous. Perhaps had you included a few Repubs then your post would have more cred.

[Guest]

Bucco....

Cologal seems to feel obligate to protect the Democrats. No I don't feel obligated to protect the Democrats but people on this website have blamed Carter, Clinton and the recently elected Democratic House and Senate for the problems.... I forget a frequent targeting of the poor people.

Bush and the Republican held Senate and House played a large role in the current state of affairs. If you ship jobs to cheaper labor markets how can you keep the American economy live? Our economy depends on the housing market and spending power of the middle class. If you cut taxes and spend out your A** it will bite you in the same.

The middle class was attacked by those in power for the past 8 years and now we are seeing the effects of that. Of course, some people in trouble now over spent. Many people lost their jobs and therefore can't pay the bills. Some people lost health care benefits got sick and are now in trouble.

There are many factors....but to say that, as you did in your post, only Reid, Frank, Pelosi and Dodd should be impeached is totally ridiculous. Perhaps had you included a few Repubs then your post would have more cred.

THIS IS WHAT I SAID...

"MY OPINION...those you named are DIRECTLY responsible for the current financial crisis and if there is any impeachments, THEY should be at the top of the list !"

THIS IS WHAT YOU SAY I SAID...

"but to say that, as you did in your post, only Reid, Frank, Pelosi and Dodd should be impeached is totally ridiculous."


You sort of ADDED the word ONLY, didnt you ?

[Guest]

THIS IS WHAT I SAID...

"MY OPINION...those you named are DIRECTLY responsible for the current financial crisis and if there is any impeachments, THEY should be at the top of the list !"

THIS IS WHAT YOU SAY I SAID...

"but to say that, as you did in your post, only Reid, Frank, Pelosi and Dodd should be impeached is totally ridiculous."


You sort of ADDED the word ONLY, didnt you ?

But why are they at the top of the list and why didn't you add any Repubs...

So who in the Republican party should be impeached?

[Guest]

But why are they at the top of the list and why didn't you add any Repubs...

So who in the Republican party should be impeached?

First of all, my use of the term impeachment was used actually in response to another post in another thread and I should have made that clear and referred to it. My error and sorry.

I listed those intimate with the current financial system...those we all KNOW chaired committees that were WARNED..those who benefited from what was happening. I would have listed any Republican that fell into that catagory.

You seem to have a very clear loyalty to the Democratic party....and you assume because I oppose President Elect Obama that I have the same loyalty to the Republican party. That is not the case in any way despite you and others wanting to make that case, and it is actually a bit upsetting to me as I have always been an independent with my votes.

I will be very careful in the future with my posts knowing that you may change the words included in what I say to suit your purpose; amazing what the addition of a word will do to meaning.