Lithium batteries

[jimbo2012]

We just became authorized dealers of lithium batteries

We are thrilled to part of this emerging technology.

Moreover, with the addition of Solar this will be a fantastic option.

We have proven solar with lead acid standard Trojans can get you 65-70 miles

Lithium will extend that range for sure. For starters they save over 200 lbs (as in weight/distance)

I teamed up with Lithium Boost, they have developed this technology system better than others in this vertical their systems include chargers, Battery Management System (BMS), gauges.

The superiority of lithium-ion batteries is clear due to their dramatic lighter weight, significant longer life-cycle, elimination of maintenance hassle and cost, shorter charge times, longer range, and in the bottom line - lower total life cost.

https://www.newswire.com/files/c3/b1/2692d679149ab3767422c8def1b1.jpg

15 year battery life span,
fast charge time if plug into shore power 1 hour is average.

Now if you add solar the whole system gets a 30% tax rebate.

I'll be looking for a open minded owner who want's to try it at a great discount.

the big question has always been cost.

Well here's the deal the only other dealer in FL is offering these at $6,500 plus tax or $7,000.

That price was a big turn off to most folks

We will be at about $4250 for the 100ah system

Now that becomes $2975 if you add solar, best of all no sales tax.

.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

How is it that by adding solar the price goes down?

[jimbo2012]

Federal tax rebate program 30%

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Does the $4250 include the solar system? 70% of $4250 is $2975. Are you forgetting to add in the cost of the solar?

How does the rebate work? Do you send in copies of your receipt to some government agency and they send you a check?

[jimbo2012]

Does the $4250 include the solar system? 70% of $4250 is $2975. Are you forgetting to add in the cost of the solar?

How does the rebate work? Do you send in copies of your receipt to some government agency and they send you a check?

Sorry for not being clearer

the Lithium setup installed is $4250, if you don't get the solar option at that time, you must add tax to that that amount.
So $4547.

With Solar savings
Lithium set $4250 x 30% = $1275
Now add solar $789 x 30% = $236.70

total with solar $5039 after rebate + no sales tax + $3527

so grand total $3527


ADVANTAGES OF LITHIUM ION BATTERIES


High power to weight ratio as compared to Lead acidic, Nicd, NiFe.
Less space required for installation.
These batteries are maintenance free.
High cycle life between 5000-7000 cycles (For especially designed Lithium Ion storage batteries for the solar applications).
High charging and discharging efficiency, above 95%.
Capable to produce most of its stored energy with very high discharging rate.
Depth of discharge is 80% for optimum cycle life.
Capable to produce 100% of its stored energy.
Tolerate high charging rates.
Long service life between 10-20 years (Depends on the brand).
Very low self discharging nature.
never lose their charge if stored for months at a time (as in snow birds)
Wide temperature range for discharging.
No memory effect, no need to fully discharge before recharging as other nickel batteries require doing that.

[rubicon]

Is a lithium battery charger included or purchased separately? Can one use their existing charger?

[mulligan]

Aren't those the ones that explode ??

[jimbo2012]

Is a lithium battery charger included or purchased separately? Can one use their existing charger?

It is included,


you can not use your existing charger what so ever.

[Jima64]

Could you explain the rebate part in more detail?

[jimbo2012]

Sure IRS form (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3468.pdf)

line 2b allows for a 30% tax credit for investing in solar. The solar panel and the batteries are all part of a solar system on the cart.

.

[jimbo2012]

Aren't those the ones that explode ??

Before I start into some facts, I find this question somewhat funny coming from people who have been sitting on top of tank of liquid gasoline as they travel down the road. It is highly flammable and can explode if the conditions are right.

What if a gas golf cart was hit by car?


If your gas tank is punctured it is sure to spill all over the ground and create an even bigger hazard. In a report from 2005 over 266,000 gasoline related car fires killed over 566 people. So with that said, I will begin to approach the subject of the dangers of lithium ion fires.

The metal lithium is highly flammable and burns very hot.
But lithium ion cells like those use in most electric cars these days do not actually contain metallic lithium.

So not the same issue with these batteries.

Rechargeable, lithium ion cells utilize lithium ions that are intercalated into graphite, lithium metal oxides and/or lithium salts.

There is no metallic lithium in a lithium ion battery.

This means that they are much more stable than many of the earlier non-rechargeable lithium batteries which did contain metallic lithium.

One big safety factor in this is that you can use standard ABC fire extinguishers or water to put out a lithium ion battery fire.

It is in the charging process that they may be vulnerable.
If you over charge a lithium ion cell the cells will expand and become very hot.
If over charged to much, this heat will build up and cause the cell to ignite.
During the normal charging process the cells should not become hot.

This is why it is very important to have some kind of monitoring system hooked up to the cells while they are being charged to make sure that the charger shuts off automatically when they reach a fully charged state or if the cells become hot.

All of our systems have a State of the Art Battery Management system.


last point we are not using 4 large 12 volt battery packs to make 48 volts

We use 15 3.2volt batteries to get 48 volts,

so if there was a problem the battery mass is significantly smaller to cause damage.

A gas can in your garage offers a greater risk perhaps.


The way the battery charger works when plugged into you homes power automatically disconnects from the battery pack when full charge is reached.

they can't overcharge.


.

[mulligan]

Got it Thanks

[Kahuna32162]

Jimbo, congrats on your new association with the Lithium battery folks. As one of the first to have converted from a lead based battery system to Lithium Ion power cells, I can't say how happy I am on the performance and the increased range I have on a single charge. I only wish I had had waited a couple of months to take advantage of your discounted pricing.

I was unaware of the solar discount on my taxes and am having my account looking into it to see if it's worth while to re file my 2015 returns. I would be happy to join you at your Town Square gatherings to show off what I have and talk about the advantages to anyone who might be interested. Please PM me about dates and times. This is the cart of the future and you are on the cutting edge.

[jimbo2012]

You must install the solar at that same time as the batteries on the same invoice.

But speak to your accountant to be sure

Thanks for your support :MOJE_whot:



.

[Carla B]

We met a painting contractor who just joined the RC Flying Club that my husband belongs to. A few Saturdays ago he left the small lithium batteries that power model airplanes on charge while he and his family went to breakfast. He said the batteries felt "warm" but didn't think anything about it. Something went wrong and the house caught fire shortly after they had gone. My husband charges his lithium batteries in a sturdy metal container and only while he is at home and awake. So far so good.

[junction29]

You must install the solar at that same time as the batteries on the same invoice.

But speak to your accountant to be sure

Thanks for your support :MOJE_whot:



.

Congratulations Bob,
Once again you are leading the field and very reasonably priced as well.
Good luck with your new venture

[TV MAN]

Jim sent you a pm.

[Uberschaf]

The lithium ion polymer batteries are what RC units use and they have a danger of catching fire.

[jimbo2012]

We met a painting contractor who just joined the RC Flying Club that my husband belongs to. A few Saturdays ago he left the small lithium batteries that power model airplanes on charge while he and his family went to breakfast. He said the batteries felt "warm" but didn't think anything about it. Something went wrong and the house caught fire shortly after they had gone. My husband charges his lithium batteries in a sturdy metal container and only while he is at home and awake. So far so good.

I also sail model boats and use them, but you need to put thing in perspective, those are not built the same.

But more importantly they are not charged with a $1500 battery management system. they are charge with a $40 charger.


.While I understand your concern, that concern is not present herein.

[jimbo2012]

Ok, I'm going top be at Brownwood, this Wednesday the 13th between 1-3pm.

Should be EZ to spot the only cart with a panel.

Hope to see those of you interested there. :wave:

I also have more info on the lithium batteries.

For any of you that are serious I will have some incentives ($$) for the first two buyers.



.

[jimbo2012]

here are two typical installs

[jimbo2012]

I'll be at Brownwood from 1-3 today

I understand that a Lithium cart will be there.

[jimbo2012]

Thanks to all that showed up, we had a Lithium cart on display.

Very interesting get together.

Next week I'll be at Lake Sumter on Tuesday from 1-2 PM

[jimbo2012]

I had a e-mail some one didn't spot us yesterday.

Here's what my toy looks like,

[jimbo2012]

Lead-acid batteries work by discharging hydrogen ions from a negatively charged lead electrode to a second lead electrode that is positively charged. What makes the transfer possible is a solution of sulphuric acid and water, in which both electrodes are submerged. Lithium-ion batteries substitute the lead electrodes for a lithium compound and the sulphuric acid for one of several organic solvents.
Low Long-Term Cost

It is estimated that most electric golf carts, are powered by traditional lead-acid batteries despite the advantages of rechargeable lithium batteries. The primary reason for this stems from the one major disadvantage of lithium-ion batteries: They have a high upfront cost. However, when you factor in performance and lifespan, lithium-ion batteries are a much more cost-effective choice.

Although lithium-ion batteries are more expensive than standard batteries, they are rated to survive up to 5,000 charge cycles with a full discharge each time while lead-acid batteries can only go through about 500 cycles at an 80 percent discharge. This means that lithium batteries will last up to ten times longer. With traditional batteries, or used golf cart batteries, you will need to replace them every two to three years, but with lithium-ion batteries, you may never need to change them out again. The lifespan of many of these batteries actually exceeds the operational lifespan of many golf carts

Improved Performance

While a lower lifetime cost is enough to drive most people to replace their lead-acid batteries with lithium-ion batteries, the latter also delivers improves performance. Because lead-acid batteries discharge at a slower rate as the charge depletes, they stop producing enough voltage for operating a golf cart when they are still 30 percent full. This is wildly inefficient and it drastically reduces the range of the vehicle on a single charge.

In addition to increasing a vehicle’s range, lithium-ion batteries increase its speed and carrying capacity because they are so much smaller and lighter than lead-acid batteries are. Lithium-ion batteries are about one-half the size and one-third the weight of standard batteries.

The reduced weight increases the vehicle’s range even more, especially when driving uphill or on rough terrain, and the golf cart won’t track through the grass or tear it up when it is wet. Furthermore, a lighter vehicle puts less stress on the brakes, improving braking distance and increasing the time before they need to be replaced.

Lastly, lithium-ion batteries charge much more quickly than lead-acid batteries do. The average time it takes to recharge a golf cart after 18 holes is eight hours, but lithium batteries can reach 80 percent capacity in only one hour and obtain a full charge in only 2.5 to three hours.

With solar shore tied charging is not needed

Other Benefits of Lithium-Ion Batteries

When you replace the standard batteries in your golf cart with lithium-ion batteries, you can expect to experience the following additional benefits:

No maintenance – Lithium-ion batteries have no water levels to check, have no build-up on the connectors and do not corrode.
Environmentally friendly – Because they last so long and do not degrade, lithium batteries do not need to be frequently destroyed or recycled.
Safe – Although early types of lithium batteries were prone to overheating, new versions are as safe as or even safer than standard batteries.

A sophisticated State-of-the-Art Battery Management system monitors each of the 15 batteries and uses 15 individual chargers built in.

this totally balances the charge precisely.

[junction29]

Lead-acid batteries work by discharging hydrogen ions from a negatively charged lead electrode to a second lead electrode that is positively charged. What makes the transfer possible is a solution of sulphuric acid and water, in which both electrodes are submerged. Lithium-ion batteries substitute the lead electrodes for a lithium compound and the sulphuric acid for one of several organic solvents.
Low Long-Term Cost

It is estimated that most electric golf carts, are powered by traditional lead-acid batteries despite the advantages of rechargeable lithium batteries. The primary reason for this stems from the one major disadvantage of lithium-ion batteries: They have a high upfront cost. However, when you factor in performance and lifespan, lithium-ion batteries are a much more cost-effective choice.

Although lithium-ion batteries are more expensive than standard batteries, they are rated to survive up to 5,000 charge cycles with a full discharge each time while lead-acid batteries can only go through about 500 cycles at an 80 percent discharge. This means that lithium batteries will last up to ten times longer. With traditional batteries, or used golf cart batteries, you will need to replace them every two to three years, but with lithium-ion batteries, you may never need to change them out again. The lifespan of many of these batteries actually exceeds the operational lifespan of many golf carts

Improved Performance

While a lower lifetime cost is enough to drive most people to replace their lead-acid batteries with lithium-ion batteries, the latter also delivers improves performance. Because lead-acid batteries discharge at a slower rate as the charge depletes, they stop producing enough voltage for operating a golf cart when they are still 30 percent full. This is wildly inefficient and it drastically reduces the range of the vehicle on a single charge.

In addition to increasing a vehicle’s range, lithium-ion batteries increase its speed and carrying capacity because they are so much smaller and lighter than lead-acid batteries are. Lithium-ion batteries are about one-half the size and one-third the weight of standard batteries.

The reduced weight increases the vehicle’s range even more, especially when driving uphill or on rough terrain, and the golf cart won’t track through the grass or tear it up when it is wet. Furthermore, a lighter vehicle puts less stress on the brakes, improving braking distance and increasing the time before they need to be replaced.

Lastly, lithium-ion batteries charge much more quickly than lead-acid batteries do. The average time it takes to recharge a golf cart after 18 holes is eight hours, but lithium batteries can reach 80 percent capacity in only one hour and obtain a full charge in only 2.5 to three hours.

With solar shore tied charging is not needed

Other Benefits of Lithium-Ion Batteries

When you replace the standard batteries in your golf cart with lithium-ion batteries, you can expect to experience the following additional benefits:

No maintenance – Lithium-ion batteries have no water levels to check, have no build-up on the connectors and do not corrode.
Environmentally friendly – Because they last so long and do not degrade, lithium batteries do not need to be frequently destroyed or recycled.
Safe – Although early types of lithium batteries were prone to overheating, new versions are as safe as or even safer than standard batteries.

A sophisticated State-of-the-Art Battery Management system monitors each of the 15 batteries and uses 15 individual chargers built in.

this totally balances the charge precisely.


Hi Bob,
Wow, sounds impressive, but as you say the only real drawback is the upfront cost. 👿👿

Somewhere in one of the threads you say you have negotiated with the supplier and almost halved the cost now to us in TV. 👍👍

How much would a full set cost now if I wanted to change my batteries today?

[jimbo2012]

The best deal is $3500 after rebate with 100ah lithium and full solar system.

Without solar it costs more, so it's like free solar.

:BigApplause:

[jimbo2012]

it's only about 9:15, heavy overcast.

My solar panels is charges at the rate of 55.6 volts without real Sun....

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I had a e-mail some one didn't spot us yesterday.

Here's what my toy looks like,

No headlights or directionals?

[jimbo2012]

Someone asked that question the other day in the other solar thread


Correct me if Im wrong, but I can't see any headlights on that cart.

Stealth...leds :coolsmiley:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Are lithium ion batteries what we have in our laptops, tablets and phones? I know that they are what are in electric vehicles like the Chevy volt and hybrids like the Prius. I never hear about about of those things catching fire or blowing up.

[jimbo2012]

Are lithium ion batteries what we have in our laptops, tablets and phones?


those are made a bit different if they are older

[quote I know that they are what are in electric vehicles like the Chevy volt and hybrids like the Prius. I never hear about about of those things catching fire or blowing up.[/QUOTE]

yes same type, I expect 80-90 miles (not tested yet) just my opinion, they do 60 without solar, so with solar that's my estimate.

I have few folks getting serious about doing the system, they will be able to say what they get distance wise.

The one that is here goes 20-25 miles and the voltage hardly drops at all and that one does not have solar.

Stop over at LSL Tuesday at 1pm, we will both be there.


.

[jimbo2012]

I'll be at LSL today 1-2pm

we will have both types to show.





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[jimbo2012]

Look for this cart

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachments/solar-golf-carts-347/59145d1460646507-solar-golf-carts-cart-jpg

[Kahuna32162]

I'll be there as well so everyone can see what a Lithium Ion Power Cell setup is all about. We will be at Spanish Springs today, Tuesday April 26th from 1 to 2p.