Beware - Hiring General Contractors or any contractor

[debron911]

I feel compelled to share this after a huge $50,000+ mistake.

My husband and I are savvy researchers who thought we had done our due diligence in sifting through many general contractors. We had experience here with some contractors such as concrete and painters for work under $3,000.

Biggest clue of a contractor with integrity, honesty and a desire to do their best is this:

No money up front!! Even a large addition contract won't want a penny until the first "benchmark" is completed, such as a foundation. Please don't sign a contract for a huge job without it containing the benchmarks, clearly stated, and the percentages. Make sure the last draw is greater than 10% because that is usually their profit and they want that. Also make sure you get release of lien or partial release of lien from each sub-contractor as they finish OR they can come after you, and lien your home EVEN IF you paid the general contractor. Every time you pay a draw you should know in detail what you are paying for.

They should be getting the ARC approval and pulling all necessary permits.

At this point I can't mention the company name as we are awaiting consultation with an attorney specializing in construction law.

We could have had one of the best builders in this area IF we had been more patient to wait for his bid. A builder who can jump right in and start, as robust as the home improvement business is here, BEWARE! Point is: waiting a couple extra weeks to get a bid could save you months of heartache, stress and legal issues.

If this post helps one person, not have to experience what we have and are still in the midst of, then I'm glad I did.

[Epic Home Pros]

Wow, your advise is spot on!!
All homeowners should read this.

[theorem painter]

I personally know Debbie and Ron and the nightmare that they have lived through. We have also been going through an addition and we were lucky enough to hire "one of the best builders" she referred to in her post - Demetri Homes and Remodeling. It was heartbreaking to watch their addition when we were having the opposite experience. Demetri Homes did quality work, with great communication and were finished ahead of schedule. (I will do a separate post about them later.) Debbie is right about a signed contract with the draws spelled out.

[gomsiepop]

Thank you for your advice. My husband and I are in the process of obtaining estimates on an expansion for our home. I will add Demetri Homes and Remodeling as our third contractor to call. We have met with Kevco Contractors already and we were very impressed with the knowledge and advice their representative gave us. Tuesday we have an appointment with Xcel Contractors and after we get all of our information in order we will make a decision on who we will hire. Beware of contractors that peruse Talk of the Villages and respond to posts. Seems to me they are using this site for "free advertising". One of them became very nasty when I questioned them.

[outlaw]

Although I agree with not (USUALLY) paying anything up front, I do believe excellent and reputable companies can get a deposit up front for large jobs. I remember when considering T&D (very good recommendations) for a large ($80-90K) job, they also required a substantial deposit upon contract signing. I may have remembered wrong, so if others have had a different experience with T&D, please respond.

[debron911]

Xcel was one of our bids and they gave us 2 typed pages of over 40 references and many were multiples on the same street. That was a big clue that there work is very good. Beware of red flags like only being offered one or two phone numbers when asking if they can provide references. Excel was prepared and offered them up front. I haven't heard anything negative about them!

[ColdNoMore]

I feel compelled to share this after a huge $50,000+ mistake.

My husband and I are savvy researchers who thought we had done our due diligence in sifting through many general contractors. We had experience here with some contractors such as concrete and painters for work under $3,000.

Biggest clue of a contractor with integrity, honesty and a desire to do their best is this:

No money up front!! Even a large addition contract won't want a penny until the first "benchmark" is completed, such as a foundation. Please don't sign a contract for a huge job without it containing the benchmarks, clearly stated, and the percentages. Make sure the last draw is greater than 10% because that is usually their profit and they want that. Also make sure you get release of lien or partial release of lien from each sub-contractor as they finish OR they can come after you, and lien your home EVEN IF you paid the general contractor. Every time you pay a draw you should know in detail what you are paying for.

They should be getting the ARC approval and pulling all necessary permits.

At this point I can't mention the company name as we are awaiting consultation with an attorney specializing in construction law.

We could have had one of the best builders in this area IF we had been more patient to wait for his bid. A builder who can jump right in and start, as robust as the home improvement business is here, BEWARE! Point is: waiting a couple extra weeks to get a bid could save you months of heartache, stress and legal issues.

If this post helps one person, not have to experience what we have and are still in the midst of, then I'm glad I did.

I noticed that you don't post all that often, but thank you very much for making the effort to give all of us this excellent advice!

Sorry you had to go through this, but huge kudos to you for taking the time to remind all of us what can happen to even those of us who try to do thorough research ahead of time.

Hope everything eventually works out for you. :beer3:

[gomsiepop]

Thank you very much for your advice ColdNoMore. Talk of the Villages is an invaluable site for information. That being said a homeowner still has to do their due diligence. Some of the posts on this site originate from contractors themselves. As the saying goes "Let The Buyer Beware". I am curious as to who the contractor was that did not fulfill their obligations. Please, please let us know who the company is when you are able to. Thank you again and hope everything works out to your benefit.

[mert1506]

Always get a few estimates & then a time frame for payments. We just used Village Home Professionals for a guest bathroom project.
They arrived early & finished ahead of schedule. Sam was very helpful.

Bob

[Biker Dog]

We used HarbourTown Homes, Rick Anderson. He required NO up front money and billed us weekly with copies of his sub's bills. Did a fabulous job, on time, on price quote, and checked the job daily. We have referred him to many friend that were very satisfied with the finished product.

[jimbo2012]

I agree no money upfront, pay as they complete different parts may be ok, I say may.

Suppose you pay for a part but later find it has issues the contractor can get ahead dollar wise.

Perhaps this idea may work, have a certain amount held back at the end of the job for two contingents.

1. final building dept inspection and approval, it's the yellow card in the papers with the plans 7 permits which must be posted on the job.

2. have someone like Frank DeAngelo do a quick inspection of the finished job.

(Frank's son is joining him he soon so they can handle more work)


then release the final payment.

In fact making these two items mandatory in the contract will keep them on their toes, and earn the home owner respect that they aren't just going to accept any substandard work.


.

[burky]

Debbie & Ron - Thank you for your post. I wish we had seen something like it when we solicited bids last year to build a Lanai addition on our home here. What I felt should have been a 4-6 week job is now stretching into the 8th month and still has a significant way to go before completion. After selecting our contractor and paying 1/3 down, it was then several months before any work actually started.

Once work finally started there was progress for 2-3 weeks and then all workers disappeared, coming back for a day every 2-3 weeks (sometimes 5 weeks between visits). After we threatened legal actions they showed up a few times and promised if we gave them another 1/3 payment they would get things promptly done. BAD MISTAKE (Color me STUPID!) Everyone disappeared again for 6 weeks, Meanwhile the the house remained largely unroofed except for a single layer of tar paper underlayment.

In September this project will have gone on for a year, while all our furniture sits in the yard and is pretty much trashed by now.

Check those references folks, get a clear description of work to be done and an associated schedule. Other than an initial reasonable (10-20% downpayment) do NOT give any "progress" payments until agreed "Description of Work" goals are actually met. Our contractor is one that advertises in TOTV so remember, just because someone runs an ad doesn't mean they are a qualified vendor. Check and double-check to be safe.

Hopefully we might be able to use our Lanai by the time Summer rolls around. Since the grill is one of the things sitting in the yard, it would be nice to enjoy a good steak or Rotisserie chicken again.

[jimbo2012]

Other than an initial reasonable (10-20% downpayment)

:Screen_of_Death:


There's only one reason a contractor requires a deposit.

They are undercapitalized.

they don't pay for materiel's for 30 days.

so what's the money for?

[biker1]

Not necessarily true. Custom made products, such as windows, may require advanced payment by the contractor and may be non-refundable. In that case, it would be foolish not to require a deposit. Also, not everyone may work with net 30 days.

:Screen_of_Death:


There's only one reason a contractor requires a deposit.

They are undercapitalized.

they don't pay for materiel's for 30 days.

so what's the money for?

[jimbo2012]

Yes, I agree on custom made, my oversite.

If they are not on 30 day terms then they aren't credit worthy with their vendors.

why should you give them money? because they can't get credit.

How many stories are we all going to read here of folks getting screwed.

See the work before paying

[biker1]

A nominal deposit is fine. Larger projects should be setup with "draws" based on completed milestones. Paying with a credit card is also a good idea as you have recourse if things go south. I wouldn't assume all suppliers work on net 30 days.

Yes, I agree on custom made, my oversite.

If they are not on 30 day terms then they aren't credit worthy with their vendors.

why should you give them money? because they can't get credit.

How many stories are we all going to read here of folks getting screwed.

See the work before paying

[BK001]

I feel compelled to share this after a huge $50,000+ mistake.

My husband and I are savvy researchers who thought we had done our due diligence in sifting through many general contractors. We had experience here with some contractors such as concrete and painters for work under $3,000.

Biggest clue of a contractor with integrity, honesty and a desire to do their best is this:

No money up front!! Even a large addition contract won't want a penny until the first "benchmark" is completed, such as a foundation. Please don't sign a contract for a huge job without it containing the benchmarks, clearly stated, and the percentages. Make sure the last draw is greater than 10% because that is usually their profit and they want that. Also make sure you get release of lien or partial release of lien from each sub-contractor as they finish OR they can come after you, and lien your home EVEN IF you paid the general contractor. Every time you pay a draw you should know in detail what you are paying for.

They should be getting the ARC approval and pulling all necessary permits.

At this point I can't mention the company name as we are awaiting consultation with an attorney specializing in construction law.

We could have had one of the best builders in this area IF we had been more patient to wait for his bid. A builder who can jump right in and start, as robust as the home improvement business is here, BEWARE! Point is: waiting a couple extra weeks to get a bid could save you months of heartache, stress and legal issues.

If this post helps one person, not have to experience what we have and are still in the midst of, then I'm glad I did.

So sorry you have had to put up with this. Such a happy event improving your home should not come with such stress. Shame on this vendor!

[CECE]

I have had a terrible experience with local "contractors'. If I am allowed to mention their names please let me do so and I will. But let me tell you ....
do not do business with anyone for big jobs that work out of their golf carts (because they have no drivers license 'cause of drinking) and the other guy is a sociopath and a real charmer with a big black truck. They have no contractors license to do work in TV but TALK a lovely game. You never know when the are showing up: their work is sloppy and done improperly. They lied constantly and I called the police once on one of the guys cause he wanted his money before the job was completed--that took 8 weeks- was done and he was furious. Right now Pergo is giving me 10 boxes because 10 boxes of wood were installed improperly. They painted the tops of the bases boards and said it would look like a "million dollars". Well it looks like my 10 yrs old grandson did it. I could go on and on. PLEASE don't be charmed by the cheats. They do THAT job so well. Its a very costly error and I am sad that at my age I keep learning lessons and will have to look at the sloppy workmanship for a long time. I will probably end up in small claims court....but who really wants to do that. Did I mention they overcharged me for 22 boxes of wood!

[CECE]

I truly sympathize. It is SUCH a stressful, sad time. Hang in there.

[debron911]

Weekly subs bills???? We never never saw any sub bills. Almost finished - having a custom 107" windowsill made for our master bedroom. Can't get a final without a window sill. Wonderful siding done by Brian Terry Vinyl (they did Sally's above). Still need lanai screening, gutters and our shower floor and bench re-tiled [husband doing it himself].
Can't imagine a contractor like yours or Sally's. Light is visible at the end of our tunnel. Live and learn. To anyone out there that is considering please go with the ones that actually give you detailed billing as you go along, draw schedules and a completion date without ten exclusions.

Day 206 home still not finished.

[gomsiepop]

I have to share my experience with one heck of a contractor. We had a three-season room built in our courtyard villa by Brian Terry Vinyl and in our current home we had our lanai enclosed under heat and air with raised floor with Brian Terry Vinyl. Not a penny, was asked for or given until the entire project had the final county inspection. In fact, on both occasions I called and asked them to stop by our home for the check. Word to the wise, check, check, check references on any contractor that does work on your home.

[jimbo2012]

FYI, as an advertiser you're free to post in any related thread to your biz, in fact any thread, no need to apologize.

Of course there are legit businesses operating here, most don't get a mention unless they do an extra good job.

On the other hand people by nature want to share their negative experience more often to warn/protect others.

.

[Waverunner]

Although I agree with not (USUALLY) paying anything up front, I do believe excellent and reputable companies can get a deposit up front for large jobs. I remember when considering T&D (very good recommendations) for a large ($80-90K) job, they also required a substantial deposit upon contract signing. I may have remembered wrong, so if others have had a different experience with T&D, please respond.

We did a large addition job with T&D. They required no money at the signing of the contract. They had milestone draws of concrete 20%, trusses 30%, drywall 30%, first paint 15%, and final inspection 5%.

They bid and finalized the contract using allowances for flooring, tile, granite, plumbing, and cabinetry. Everything that came after the contract signing is done is a change order, which is due 100% at the next scheduled payment. (For example: $4,000 granite allowance gets credited against $5,000 actual granite amount all at once, regardless of the original milestone percentage spread at contract signing.) So, assuming you have picked out all your finishes between contract signing and first draw, it is very likely, if you have above builder grade selections, that your first payment will exceed 20%.

There is also a provision in their contract that reads, "If not paid when project is completed a 5% interest fee can be charged to full amount of project. Note: Punch items and manufacturing defects will not hold up the completion of job. Payment is still due once major scope of work is complete."

T&D is very busy and has lots of crews and projects going at any given time. Getting your job off the ground is a bit of a process, and we have learned a lot. Getting an actual start date for our project was difficult. We were delayed well beyond our original planned start date. Once construction actually started though, we could see daily progress, going faster than we anticipated. The days when someone was not on site daily were mostly inspection days, which was expected, and very few others.

A "shout out thank you" to TOTV members as well, as our research on this site led us to T&D. T&D is not known as the lowest price, but seemed to have the least amount of complaints about doing business with them, their timeliness, and the quality of their work. We were also concerned about the financial stability in our choice of general contractor, and did not want to personally find out the horrors of the FL Construction Lien Law (i.e. from unpaid material suppliers and subcontractors), so T&D fit our needs here as well.

We were our own construction managers and have learned that the more you know, the better to manage your expectations of the process, the timing that all parts of a project takes, and the appropriate financial contributions schedule.

[buckscounty]

You should never put any money down, I don't care what the projectis, if you feel you need to give them money give on the first day they show up to do the job.

[MorlDonna]

Although I agree with not (USUALLY) paying anything up front, I do believe excellent and reputable companies can get a deposit up front for large jobs. I remember when considering T&D (very good recommendations) for a large ($80-90K) job, they also required a substantial deposit upon contract signing. I may have remembered wrong, so if others have had a different experience with T&D, please respond.

T&D just completed enclosing my lanai. Excellent workmanship and very easy to work with. They did not require a deposit up front, however, my job was considerably less money. I was on a payment completion schedule.