Executive golf course green

[westcoast]

There seems to be a lot of greens that have bare spots and
some under repair. Saddle brook green two was completely
redone not too long ago and now is closed for repair. Just wondering if this is normal for all courses
in are area or just here. I don't play companionship courses
so I don't know about those. Does anybody have a back ground
in course management and could comment on this. I guess
my question is could some of these green problems be avoided?

[JGVillages]

There seems to be a lot of greens that have bare spots and
some under repair. Saddle brook green two was completely
redone not too long ago and now is closed for repair. Just wondering if this is normal for all courses
in are area or just here. I don't play companionship courses
so I don't know about those. Does anybody have a back ground
in course management and could comment on this. I guess
my question is could some of these green problems be avoided?

I have been here for 10+ years and course conditions (I speak for Championship) have been inconsistent at best, but for the last year they have been the worst I have seen. Excuses abound for their conditioning but admission of a problem from the Golf Division does not happen. I believe the GMS is totally revenue driven and chooses to put "reasonable" course conditioning on the back burner until it hurts their pocketbook. Unfortunately "reasonable" conditions can have a wide spectrum of interpretation from golfer to golfer, resulting in a wide variety of Resident opinions on this issue.

[NativeNewYorker]

There seems to be a lot of greens that have bare spots and
some under repair. Saddle brook green two was completely
redone not too long ago and now is closed for repair. Just wondering if this is normal for all courses
in are area or just here. I don't play companionship courses
so I don't know about those. Does anybody have a back ground
in course management and could comment on this. I guess
my question is could some of these green problems be avoided?

greens are in terrible shape. Up north, this course would be considered a poor muny.

[Barefoot]

greens are in terrible shape. Up north, this course would be considered a poor muny.
Up north, it costs $$$$ to play.

[fred53]

If you throw enough money at the greens they would be in much better shape, but your fees would soar. Nature dealt the greens a warm fall and that didn't help. If you really are interested then call GMS and ask. If not then next time you're in the golf shop ask the manager of the course that services those exec. courses. They will also know. Going to the source beats asking online in a forum...unless you're lucky enough to have a course manager on this forum.

[fred53]

Up north, it costs $$$$ to play.

having lived in Maine for 35 years there are expensive(to me)courses and those that are reasonable for such a short season. I don't think $35 for 18holes is unreasonable...you?

[Topspinmo]

Yes, I am discussed, I three putt all the time inflating my exaggerated score. I know I can break 50 on these courses if I take enough shots over or don't count some. Now I can blame it on the greens:a040:

[Barefoot]

greens are in terrible shape. Up north, this course would be considered a poor muny.

Up north, it costs $$$$ to play.

having lived in Maine for 35 years there are expensive(to me)courses and those that are reasonable for such a short season. I don't think $35 for 18holes is unreasonable...you?

Most golfers I know play three times weekly, and pay $400 - $1,000 per month.
Maybe not exorbitant, but definitely more expensive than free golf for life.
I am very impressed that The Villages provides a choice of over 35 executive golf courses.
Granted, some courses aren't in great shape, but they're FREE.

[photo1902]

Up north, it costs $$$$ to play.

It isn't free to golf here. Kind of like the line from the sales agent, "there's no HOA fee here".

[JGVillages]

If you throw enough money at the greens they would be in much better shape, but your fees would soar. Nature dealt the greens a warm fall and that didn't help. If you really are interested then call GMS and ask. If not then next time you're in the golf shop ask the manager of the course that services those exec. courses. They will also know. Going to the source beats asking online in a forum...unless you're lucky enough to have a course manager on this forum.

Been there , done that. Have contacted them off and on for 10 years and always the same excuses. Too warm/too hot/not enough rain/too much rain/etc. etc. These excuses are valid now and then but not most every year, year round.
Palmer will be closed for around 6 weeks. Most all of the championship courses are in poor to mediocre shape. The Golf Division brings in big profits for "the Family" so with proper and knowledgable Golf Course maintenance, conditions could be vastly improved without a significant cost increase.

[rjn5656]

If the family played, conditions would be better. But they don't care.

[Bogie Shooter]

If the family played, conditions would be better. But they don't care.

I suppose its fun to post something like this, for some people.
I doubt very much that it is true........................

[Mleeja]

I have a suggestion. Have each course close for two days per week. This will allow for proper maintenance to the greens and tee boxes and give the courses a chance to heal.

[Buckeye Bob]

Played Escambia on Monday and the greens were excellent; some of the best I've seen in sometime.

[rubicon]

Let me preface this with ITS HEARSAY. Let me also ask if someone out there knows if the following is gospel.

I was told (HEARSAY) that Arnold Palmer , probably via his organization, told The Villages that they were appalled at the condition of Palmer's course and if they did not fix the conditions of the course to their satisfaction they needed to remove the Palmer name.

I do know that Palmer's has been closed for some time and that they are doing extensive work even to the signage.

If it is true will fees go up? what affect this will have on all other courses here?

Those living in the villages are contract bound to paying of amenity fees and as such I am one inclined to be prudent about such application because if it is not watched closely the costs will continue upward unabated

Its clear that all the villages courses get heavy play, especially the executive courses.

Its also clear that not all villagers use all amenities.

Usage is a key ingredient and should be addressed

[ColdNoMore]

Let me preface this with ITS HEARSAY. Let me also ask if someone out there knows if the following is gospel.

I was told (HEARSAY) that Arnold Palmer , probably via his organization, told The Villages that they were appalled at the condition of Palmer's course and if they did not fix the conditions of the course to their satisfaction they needed to remove the Palmer name.

I do know that Palmer's has been closed for some time and that they are doing extensive work even to the signage.

If it is true will fees go up? what affect this will have on all other courses here?

Those living in the villages are contract bound to paying of amenity fees and as such I am one inclined to be prudent about such application because if it is not watched closely the costs will continue upward unabated

Its clear that all the villages courses get heavy play, especially the executive courses.

Its also clear that not all villagers use all amenities.

Usage is a key ingredient and should be addressed


I can believe that the Palmer organization is upset having Arnie's name on such a poor course that it has become, but as I understand it our amenity fees do not pay for championship course maintenance.

And while the cost of playing our championship courses (if you use your won cart) is not as expensive as playing the upper end of other resort/public courses, the value for what you pay here is often surpassed by many muni's and resort courses across the country. I recently played Patriots Point in Charleston and paid $45 (with cart) and their course conditions far surpassed what Palmer had become.

Recognizing of course, that most other golf courses do not have what is pretty much a captive audience (due to the convenience of being able to drive your cart to each of them) and may therefore have to try harder to attract players, it still seems that they should be able to afford better upkeep.

That's my $.02 worth anyway. :shrug:

[Bogie Shooter]

greens are in terrible shape. Up north, this course would be considered a poor muny.

Played Torry to Erin yesterday, didn't see anything that would be described as terrible.

[Bogie Shooter]

I can believe that the Palmer organization is upset having Arnie's name on such a poor course that it has become, but as I understand it our amenity fees do not pay for championship course maintenance.

And while the cost of playing our championship courses (if you use your won cart) is not as expensive as playing the upper end of other resort/public courses, the value for what you pay here is often surpassed by many muni's and resort courses across the country. I recently played Patriots Point in Charleston and paid $45 (with cart) and their course conditions far surpassed what Palmer had become.

Recognizing of course, that most other golf courses do not have what is pretty much a captive audience (due to the convenience of being able to drive your cart to each of them) and may therefore have to try harder to attract players, it still seems that they should be able to afford better upkeep.

That's my $.02 worth anyway. :shrug:

I don't understand the comparison of TV courses with courses all over the country....its apples and oranges.
Way to many factors to effect the cost to play.
Besides the travel cost to Charleston kinda defeats the $45 fee.

[Barefoot]

It isn't free to golf here.
I thought the 35+ Executive Golf Courses were free if a golfer walks. I apologize if this is incorrect information.

[rubicon]

I can believe that the Palmer organization is upset having Arnie's name on such a poor course that it has become, but as I understand it our amenity fees do not pay for championship course maintenance.

And while the cost of playing our championship courses (if you use your won cart) is not as expensive as playing the upper end of other resort/public courses, the value for what you pay here is often surpassed by many muni's and resort courses across the country. I recently played Patriots Point in Charleston and paid $45 (with cart) and their course conditions far surpassed what Palmer had become.

Recognizing of course, that most other golf courses do not have what is pretty much a captive audience (due to the convenience of being able to drive your cart to each of them) and may therefore have to try harder to attract players, it still seems that they should be able to afford better upkeep.

That's my $.02 worth anyway. :shrug:

ColdNoMore: I played championship courses in TV twice a week when I first arrived then did the out of the bubble thing and never did I concern myself with golf fees because I knew going in and still chose to play there.

My question and perhaps it lacked clarity is if all this about Palmer's is true then will championship fees at palmers go up. Palmers is already $10 more than other courses here. and if Palmer's raises its fees will that start a chain reaction?? don't know if it is a problem??

As to amenity fees while in writing it says they can't go up there are always ways around "can't" there is always something that cause a "drift"

In fairness to the golf Admin these courses get really hard play and many golfers are not doing their due diligence in keeping with tee boxes, fairways and greens protocols

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I thought the 35+ Executive Golf Courses were free if a golfer walks. I apologize if this is incorrect information.

The cost of executive golf is included in your amenity fee.

[Challenger]

If the family played, conditions would be better. But they don't care.

Petty

[macgolfnut]

I have lived here for 7 years and this year is by far the worst conditions. When we first moved here, the greens were never this bad. The championship courses are not much better. It is really disappointing. The common area flowers look great, the rec centers are fantastic, the Sharon Theater is spectacular, but our usually wonderful golf courses look terrible. I recently played Ocala National for $25 and it was in great shape. It's not the weather, it's the new company they hired to maintain the courses.

[justjim]

No question the Executive courses get as much play as any in the world. Some, but certainly not all, of poor green condition is lack of golf etiquette in not fixing ball marks. True story---I fixed four to five every green the last several times I played an executive course and could of fixed more. Disgraceful. And I might add a distraction to those that fix their ball marks.

Perhaps, it would help if several thousand ball mark tools were given away at all golf courses at the starter shacks to emphasized the need to fix ball marks on the course greens. I would bet that half of golfers don't even carry a ball mark tool. Enough said.

[Mleeja]

No question the Executive courses get as much play as any in the world. Some, but certainly not all, of poor green condition is lack of golf etiquette in not fixing ball marks. True story---I fixed four to five every green the last several times I played an executive course and could of fixed more. Disgraceful. And I might add a distraction to those that fix their ball marks.

Perhaps, it would help if several thousand ball mark tools were given away at all golf courses at the starter shacks to emphasized the need to fix ball marks on the course greens. I would bet that half of golfers don't even carry a ball mark tool. Enough said.

Great idea! One would think some of the companies here in The Villages would take this as a great opportunity to place thier names on the divot repair tools.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I gave up playing golf about seven years ago because of some physical issues. Recently I thought that I'd try to see if I could play nine holes of executive golf twice a week and see how it felt.

So far I've played three different courses. Two were deplorable and the third was horrendous.

We've got 60,000 households paying about $1,700 per year. That's $102 million. I would think that there should be enough money in the budget to take care of 324 par three holes in at least reasonable condition.

I worked at a nine hole par 72 golf course and our budget was about $500,000. Taking care of executives is less expensive because you don't have expansive fairways to maintain. I don't know what portion of the amenities money is budgeted toward executive golf, but I would think that $18 million out of $102 million would be out of the question. Based on my experience it shouldn't even take that much. Eliminate fairway and rough maintenance and you might be talking $400,000 or less per course. If they're spending that much money they are getting ripped off.

I don't expect Augusta National, but the condition that I see hear are unacceptable to me.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

No question the Executive courses get as much play as any in the world. Some, but certainly not all, of poor green condition is lack of golf etiquette in not fixing ball marks. True story---I fixed four to five every green the last several times I played an executive course and could of fixed more. Disgraceful. And I might add a distraction to those that fix their ball marks.

Perhaps, it would help if several thousand ball mark tools were given away at all golf courses at the starter shacks to emphasized the need to fix ball marks on the course greens. I would bet that half of golfers don't even carry a ball mark tool. Enough said.

We did that at a course that I worked at and it helped a lot.

I would also like to see the Good Golf School made mandatory for anyone that wants to play golf. But the problems here are way beyond people not fixing ball marks. In fact, the fact that the greens are so bad encourages people not to fix them. Many people feel that there's no point in fixing ball marks on greens that are so bad. It's been proven that when greens are in great shape, people tend to respect them more.

[graciegirl]

It isn't free to golf here. Kind of like the line from the sales agent, "there's no HOA fee here".


Tell us all how much it costs to play a nine hole course here. If you drive your own cart?

Then compare that to a nine hole course. ANYWHERE.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Tell us all how much it costs to play a nine hole course here. If you drive your own cart?

Then compare that to a nine hole course. ANYWHERE.

Gracie, the cost of golf is included in your amenities fees. We are all paying for golf whether we play or not. Under this system it is impossible to determine the cost of a round. People who play a lot of golf pay less per round than people that don't play very often. Residents that don't play golf at all are paying for others to play.

It's the same with all of the amenities. You are still paying for the pool tables and the shuffle board courts even if you don't use them.

As far a cart fees on the executive courses, it is either $4.00 per round or $141.00 for an unlimited number of rounds in a year.

I worked at a nine hole club up north with an annual dues under $2,000. For that you got to play unlimited golf on a par 36 golf course in excellent condition. We also had an annual cart fee of about $700 for which you could ride an unlimited number of rounds. Of course we had a nine month season, but several members played every day during that season. Some got in as many as 250 rounds, most of which were eighteen holes.

They may advertise golf as FREE, but the reality is that we all pay for golf.

[photo1902]

Gracie, the cost of golf is included in your amenities fees. We are all paying for golf whether we play or not. Under this system it is impossible to determine the cost of a round. People who play a lot of golf pay less per round than people that don't play very often. Residents that don't play golf at all are paying for others to play.

It's the same with all of the amenities. You are still paying for the pool tables and the shuffle board courts even if you don't use them.

As far a cart fees on the executive courses, it is either $4.00 per round or $141.00 for an unlimited number of rounds in a year.

I worked at a nine hole club up north with an annual dues under $2,000. For that you got to play unlimited golf on a par 36 golf course in excellent condition. We also had an annual cart fee of about $700 for which you could ride an unlimited number of rounds. Of course we had a nine month season, but several members played every day during that season. Some got in as many as 250 rounds, most of which were eighteen holes.

They may advertise golf as FREE, but the reality is that we all pay for golf.

:agree:

[photo1902]

Tell us all how much it costs to play a nine hole course here. If you drive your own cart?

Then compare that to a nine hole course. ANYWHERE.

I dont think you could figure out how much it costs, exactly. Depends on how many rounds you play per year. Im not complaining about the cost, but to say its "free" is far from true.