View Full Version : Cleaning ceramic tile floors
CTgolfer
01-21-2009, 06:50 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
Cassie325
01-21-2009, 06:55 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
We use white distilled vinegar in water. Seems to work very well. However we usually do it with a cloth or sponge....not a mop. For the grout, especially if it is light in color, we put a little bleach on it before scrubbing with a toothbrush.
We do this only about once a week unless otherwise warranted...
In the meantime we use a swiffer vaccuum sweeper on it just to get up dust and dirt.
graciegirl
01-21-2009, 07:04 AM
I was astonished at how dirty the floors were when I first cleaned them. I had been spot cleaning them and swiffering them and sweeping them and they LOOKED clean!! BUT the first time I had washed them thoroughly I had to change the water several times. The culprit is the garage floor. It seems to be giving up black dust. I was told early on that the garage floors should be finished. I thought it was just a "Florida style" thing. I was wrong to assume that the same kind of concrete is used here as up north. It really needs to be sealed.
Until we can decide if we do it ourselves or hire it done we are using throw rugs just outside the entry from the garage and inside in the laundry room. They become filthy within days.
I use liquid dishwashing detergent with a sponge mop. It seems like there are acres of tile.
Russ_Boston
01-21-2009, 07:08 AM
My wife swears by that small steam machine (Shark?).
Cassie - You clean the grout separately? Next time buy dark grout or just let the light grout get dark. That's WAY too much work!
mfp509
01-21-2009, 07:14 AM
I was using the vinegar and mops etc. Now I have a Shark steam mop and love it. I use the Swiffer vac and a dry mop for dust and then I use the steam mop. No mess with water and mops - in fact, I'm throwing all my mops out. This Shark is wonderful. I guess it's okay for tile. My friend has used hers for a long time and I don't see any problem since I've been using mine. Bought mine at Bed Bath and Beyond with the 20% off coupon - ended up costing around $66 with tax.
redwitch
01-21-2009, 08:24 AM
20% vinegar solution in a spray bottle with a Swiffer. (The Swiffer bottle stuff seems to streak some tiles.) I hand clean the edges with the "wet wipes" for Swiffers, dry wipe/spray where needed for the rest of the floor. This works well if you do it frequently, with an occasional serioius cleaning. However, I've heard great things about the steamers and plan to try that out.
graciegirl
01-21-2009, 08:58 AM
How do the steamers work? Where does the dirt go?
dillywho
01-21-2009, 09:00 AM
I was told when I had my tile installed to always use the white vinegar and water, not any of the commercial chemicals advertised for tile floor (Great Lakes Carpet & Tile ). I have no trouble with streaks, etc. I would like to know more about the steam cleaner, though. Sounds like it would be much easier. Can you tell me about it? Does it use chemicals or just water?
mfp509
01-21-2009, 09:24 AM
The Steamer just uses distilled water. The dirt is just sucked up into the pad, I guess. I never really thought about it. I throw the pad in the washing machine after. Using this is so easy, I do my floors more often now. I dreaded mopping them like I used to and would put it off as long as I could. They always look nice now.
dgammon6
01-21-2009, 09:25 AM
My wife uses the Shark steamer. She swears by it. Also, our builder advised that we should not seal the grout until the warranty period is over. He indicated it could void the warranty on the tile.
Floridagal
01-21-2009, 11:15 AM
I use the steamer with distilled water and it is great. Just want you all to know that vinegar does darken all grout. The best thing is to just use water or distilled water in the steam machines.
F16 1UB
01-21-2009, 11:22 AM
My wife uses the Shark steamer. She swears by it. Also, our builder advised that we should not seal the grout until the warranty period is over. He indicated it could void the warranty on the tile.
Just curious how it may void the warranty????:shrug:
The Great Fumar
01-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Trust me !!!! The SHARK is the only way to go.....drys instantly and throw the pad in the wash,,, They cost about 80 bucks.
We have one down here and one up north......
no more hands and knees fumar
The Shark steamer is the way to go. Mr. mac9 is so fascinated with it that he insists on doing the floors himself!
graciegirl
01-21-2009, 12:51 PM
I don't know but sealing the grout also voids the warrenty.
dillywho
01-21-2009, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the Shark info. I will definitely purchase one! I, too, dread having to mop, mop, mop!:bowdown:
Mikitv
01-21-2009, 03:25 PM
I am not in TV yet but I do have a lot of tile flooring. I was using the swifter but invested (my son wanted it) in a Hoover floormate. It was astounding the first time he cleaned the floors how dirty the pick up water was. The machine dispenses the clean water and picks up the dirty water. He does the floors for me and he loves it. I tried it in the master bath and was easy to use. Since it picks up the water, dries very quickly and doesn't streak.
jtdraig
01-21-2009, 03:36 PM
I bought a Haan floor steamer/santizer..it is FANTASTIC! It works so well that I ordered one for my daughter in New Jersey..it has 15 steam jets. I use it as much as my wife does because it works so well.
thegreenerside
01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
I purchased a Shark from a person here on TOTV a couple of weeks ago and boy was I happy. It works great on tile, but I also have dark cherry hardwood floors which makes the floors look brand new. No more mops, no more knee pads, and no more dreading the floor cleaning duty
Boomer
01-21-2009, 08:07 PM
We just put in a new tile floor. We used something called Star Quartz grout. I don't know if it will live up to its promises. Time will tell. I asked for the skinniest grout lines possible in this one. I think it's 1/8 of an inch. Here's the link to Star Quartz.
http://www.starquartz.com/about.html
Of course, that's only good if you are starting with a new installation. Our bathrooms have the regular grout and grout lines.
I have been reading this thread today and thinking we need to buy a Shark.
And when Greenerside said the Shark works on hardwood, too, that got me really interested in buying one of these things.
This might sound like a dumb question, but what do you put in the Shark with the water?
And the Hoover Floormate mentioned here sounds interesting, also. Will it work on hardwood?
I've been crawling and scooting around on these floors for way too long.
Thanks for the info.
Boomer
another Linda
01-21-2009, 08:41 PM
Wow, Boomer! Star quartz grout sounds just like what I'm looking for. I'm planning to put tile in our CYV -- probably some time this summer. Now all I need to do is be able to find this when I need it. (I appear to have a search impediment.)
Mikitv
01-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Boomer,
I have the Bruce hardwood floors and they recommend not using any type of steam or water cleaner on the floor. I have a product that I spray on and use a big cloth pad on the floor. I throw it in the wash after. It works well and I haven't had any problems with it on the floors. We've built five homes and have always had a combination of wood, tile and carpet. I think this is the first time I can say that the products I am using to clean floors are the best I have used.
Cassie325
01-21-2009, 09:03 PM
Well after reading this entire thread the family has made the decision to try one of these Sharks! My question is "How does it work on the grout?"
Granted I wish we had darker grout....but does this Shark really clean the grout too? Or will the tooth brush and bleach have to stick around?
Boomer
01-21-2009, 09:37 PM
Mikark,
Thanks. This hardwood has been down for 5 years. It's prefinished 3/4 inch thick, tongue and groove boards. It's amazing the beating it can take. I have been using Murphy Oil Soap and water. It does not have to be rinsed. In the beginning I would not use Murphy because the world "Oil" in its name threw me. I expected it to streak and smear. Not the case at all. But still I end up crawling around.
Good for me -- maybe.
But sometimes I just squeeze out the cloth in the bucket of Murphy soap and water and attach it to the Swiffer handle, to that thing on the bottom where the Swiffer cloth is supposed to be. Ah, laziness, the mother of invention. Crawling around this house is not my idea of a good time. I hope P&G does not sue me for patent infringement.
And Linda,
About that Star Quartz grout -- Mr. Boomer learned all about it from somebody at a big tile distributor in Cincinnati. He was looking into epoxy at the time. This stuff is easier I think. I am not sure how new it is. You might want to keep skinny grout lines in mind if you like that look. My tile in the new room is 18X18 with a straight edge. I don't know if skinny works with an irregular edge tile. When I said skinny, the tile guy asked me about the edge. Mr. Boomer is not my tile guy. He does not like to do tile. Just hardwood in our house and laminate for Boomette, our daughter.
Oh My!
For two days here on TOTV, I have been going on and on about flooring in one thread or another. What is the matter with me???? I am starting to feel like Cliff, that mailman who hung out in the bar on "Cheers" and went on and on about stuff until everyone's eyes rolled back in their heads.
Boomer
hh6641
01-22-2009, 07:11 AM
Our home is completely tiled floors. Just buy a Hoover Floor-Mate and use a vinegar/water solution. Works great. "Good scrubbing".
Cassie325
01-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Well we purchased the shark this morning and what a difference!! the knees and back were saved first of all....
AND the floor looks GREAT!!
However I do wish their were parts available for the shark that would work on the grout a little more directly. We will keep looking for parts or perhaps another brand that has parts....but the steam is wonderful and I would imagine kills germs at the same time!!
Now does anyone have any great tricks up their sleeve for granite....ours is dark and sometimes you can't tell if you have it completely clean! Looks great but can't tell whether it is fully clean! A steam cleaner for granite would be great!
l2ridehd
01-25-2009, 08:42 AM
We are getting ready to purchase a steam tile cleaner as well. In reading reviews on other sites, the one complaint about the Shark is that over time it loses it's abilty to heat and therefor does not clean as well. Anyone have one that they have owned for a while? How long? And does it still work well?
TallerTrees
01-25-2009, 10:30 AM
We are getting ready to purchase a steam tile cleaner as well. In reading reviews on other sites, the one complaint about the Shark is that over time it loses it's abilty to heat and therefor does not clean as well. Anyone have one that they have owned for a while? How long? And does it still work well?
Here's the one we purchased after having tried the Shark. The use that we give it justifies the cost. We use Dyson for what little carpeting we have left.
http://www.save-now.com/steam/new-steam-windows/VC-3000-Home-Unit.htm
This one is great. It's a good size and not heavy. But wow does it hit the grout and do all of our tile well. We use it in both of our homes. It's a work horse.
The Shark was cheap, didn't get the grout well and ran our of steam. Also, the handle broke and we had it replaced. At first it seemed so great, but... With this you get what you pay for.
cobblercabin
02-01-2009, 01:01 PM
For light colored grout, liquid dishwasher soap is pretty good. I also recommend sealing once a year......
beady
02-01-2009, 01:21 PM
I agree ..steam is the way to go ...we have a smallish unit with 2 floor attachments and 2 small brushes (great for cleaning grout). Got ours at Big Lots and I think we payed between $75-100. It is a little cumbersome, has enough steam to do the kitchen, laundry and eating area. Half a tank does the 2 bathrooms. Great for the shower , as well.
Bogie Shooter
02-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Bought a Shark last week and will be taking it back this week. Did very little to cleaning the grout, the steam is not forceful enough and no brushing action.
That big puppy that cost $450 looks as if it will do the job.....have to open a business to pay it off!:laugh:
Russ_Boston
02-01-2009, 07:15 PM
I purposely use dark grout on all my tile jobs. WAY too much effort trying to keep grout looking good!
F16 1UB
03-03-2009, 07:11 AM
Bought the Shark at Kohls Mod S3202 $103 with ol fart discount. Works great on laminate /purgo floors but takes WAY TO LONG compared to the trusty industrial mop bucket. I used it for 5 minutes and said that was enough. I may be satisfied using it on tile but for now nope. I washed the pad, put everything back in the box, and returned it. Once we arrive in TV I'll probably buy one when we get there, when we get there, when...And after I returned it to Kohls I went to Sams and saw a similar Shark including the hand steam bottle for $79. Don't remember the model.
F16
graciegirl
03-03-2009, 08:16 AM
That's it. I am staying with my sponge mop and bucket. I like to see the dirty water go down the drain anyway, instant gratification. The floor gets dirty here quick. Where does it come from? I have "wipe your feet rugs" at all entrances!! I am going to start hosing people down before they enter!
Russ_Boston
03-03-2009, 09:43 AM
I am going to start hosing people down before they enter!
{in Austin Powers voice:} Oh Behave!
graciegirl
03-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Russ. Russ. Russ.:D
Ooper
03-03-2009, 10:54 AM
We are getting ready to purchase a steam tile cleaner as well. In reading reviews on other sites, the one complaint about the Shark is that over time it loses it's abilty to heat and therefor does not clean as well. Anyone have one that they have owned for a while? How long? And does it still work well?
I'm sure the Shark heats like a coffee pot with a resistive element. The only thing that would reduce it's heating ability is buildup on the element, just like your coffee pots. You can run vinegar thru them once in a while if you don't mind the smell or use distilled water. You don't get buildup from distilled water.
jdsl1998
03-03-2009, 12:53 PM
How do you handle the garage dirt? How do you seal a garage floor?
thanks
golfnut
03-03-2009, 01:24 PM
We had all of the cement at our house color coated (painted), however, we still take our shoes off when we come in the house............GN
Halle
03-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I agree with GN we remove our shoes, a habit we acquired in Alaska due to the weather, and one we continue in our home in The Villages.
coach
03-03-2009, 04:02 PM
To hold down the garage dirt from coming in our house we covered the garage floor with "indoor/outdoor" carpet from Lowes. It come in 12 foot widths so I bought two sections the length of my garage. About 20' or so. I put it down with just a little adhesive around the edges and it has been wonderful. The garage looks nice, is easy to clean and no more dirt is tracked in. I remember the cost was less than $100.
I also got some carpet sample squares and put them where the tires of my golf cart and my car would rest. This keeps the tires from making intentions on my carpet.
golfnut
03-03-2009, 04:14 PM
coach, no issues on the carpet with water tracked in on car after rain or water that always drips from A/C system after parking in the garage?? seems I always have puddles in the garage that I mop up............GN
Cassie325
03-03-2009, 08:46 PM
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/album.php?albumid=138
We have tried three different styles sharks...so far we have kept the third one....the picture above was an exciting night...we invited several friends over to "test" the sharks...it was the funniest night in a long time.
Talk about an exciting evening....:MOJE_whot::1rotfl::MOJE_whot::1rotfl:
I learned about the Shark here and love it. Lots of tile in my house. We have a baby at the crawling stage coming next month - like the idea of steam cleaning.
jtdraig
03-05-2009, 10:16 AM
You can buy an epoxy coating at Home Depot or Lowe's and do a garage floor for around $100.00 yourself or you can pay someone between $300 and $450 to do it for you. I chose to do it myself which only took a couple of hours and turned out beautifully.:beer3:
duffysmom
05-27-2009, 10:54 AM
My tile shower floor has an abrasive finish that is impossible to clean.:rant-rave: Has anyone found a solution. It appears that the abrasive stuff (feels like sandpaper) holds the dirt. Thanks
GrayGoose
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
First, get stanley steamer to come out and steam it.
Then when you mop use rubbing alcohol and water and a mop to get down in the gout groves. The rubbing alcohol evaporates very quickly , leaves no streaks and does not allow water to sit in the grooves.
duffysmom
05-29-2009, 02:27 PM
GrayGoose, thanks you are brilliant.....:bowdown: This works out beautifully since I'm planning on having my carpets cleaned by Stanley Steamer.
TrudyM
05-29-2009, 03:33 PM
Make sure they get the edges. When we purchased a house in Marietta GA. I had Stanley Steamer come out and steam clean the grout on the great room floor. As well as do the carpets. I thought the grout was brown. turns out it was cream:shocked:. They didn't get the edges against the wall as they had no edge tool so I went and bought a steamer with a nozzel attachment that directed the steam at the edges. Not all Stanley Stamer companies are the same coast to coast maybe yours there has an edge tool but you might want to check before you book.
babbs455
05-30-2009, 06:04 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
If you think about it..what is ceramic and porcelain?? dishes come to mind....how do you clean them...with dish detergent...however I have found if you use too much it will leave a film on the floor and everytime you walk on the tile you will leave feetprints...everywhere...
having a tile man in the family (RICKS FLOORING) believe me I have used alot of products on the floor to clean our tile..but the best thing I have found and am sticking to it is FABREZE MR Clean it not only cleans well but makes your house smell so fresh and clean..especially if you have pets. and it does not take a lot of cleaner diluted in the mop bucket to clean the floors..
As for the grout...that is a different story I have cleaned with diluted bleach before that seems to do the trick for most of the small cleanups but for heavy duty cleaning like just moving into a new home with yucky grout
solfamic did the trick..you have to get down and clean it though a thorough scrubbing sometimes with a toothbrush..but it comes right back nice and clean..be sure to read the instructions with the solfamic acid wash..and wear protective gloves..or call your TILE MAN...let someone else do it for you!!!! :)
solfamic acid wash
SUNNYMARYANN
05-30-2009, 01:31 PM
I love Mr. Clean with the Fabreeze scent because it does a good job and leaves a fresh smelling house. I put some in a spray bottle with a cup of bleach and some water and use that to clean the grout and it works fine. For the initial big first time cleaning I used a grout brush I bought for $1.99 at Winn-Dixie and it sure scrubbed out the old dirt. After that its just me and Mr. Clean and where necessary the spritz bottle.
tucson
06-01-2009, 07:27 AM
If you think about it..what is ceramic and porcelain?? dishes come to mind....how do you clean them...with dish detergent...however I have found if you use too much it will leave a film on the floor and everytime you walk on the tile you will leave feetprints...everywhere...
having a tile man in the family (RICKS FLOORING) believe me I have used alot of products on the floor to clean our tile..but the best thing I have found and am sticking to it is FABREZE MR Clean it not only cleans well but makes your house smell so fresh and clean..especially if you have pets. and it does not take a lot of cleaner diluted in the mop bucket to clean the floors..
As for the grout...that is a different story I have cleaned with diluted bleach before that seems to do the trick for most of the small cleanups but for heavy duty cleaning like just moving into a new home with yucky grout
solfamic did the trick..you have to get down and clean it though a thorough scrubbing sometimes with a toothbrush..but it comes right back nice and clean..be sure to read the instructions with the solfamic acid wash..and wear protective gloves..or call your TILE MAN...let someone else do it for you!!!! :)
solfamic acid wash
Where do you buy the solfamic acid wash? Thanks!
babbs455
06-01-2009, 07:43 AM
I believe the last time I purchased it was at lowe's
starflyte1
06-04-2009, 08:45 AM
We have a home in Bonita Springs, FL with 2200 sq ft of tile and light colored grout. Two years ago we paid $800 to have the tile and grout professionally cleaned, but all they really did was clean it normally, nothing special.
Our home is now for sale and the grout and tile would not come clean, even with a floor mate or a floor scrubber. Decided something had to be done to get it really clean, so I ordered an VX5000 on line. IT WORKS!! It takes time, but is not hard work, all done from a standing position and the grout looks like new! I feel that the $695 I paid for it will more than be returned when we sell our house.
I have only tried it on our floors, but am looking forward to using it in the showers and even on the grill grate. And, you only use water, no cleaners.
I was afraid to buy a home in TV with grouted tile because of how hard it is to keep clean, but, when we sell our home in TV, I will look again for tile.
Yes, we have two homes for sale, and hopefully, they will both sell soon so we can buy a villa in TV.
Has anyone had the floors cleaned by All Surface Rejuvenations Plus? They use a heavy, powerful, steam cleaner. I use the Shark but even though it cleans the floors if I use it the next day, the pad comes out black again. It drives me crazy that I clean and clean and no matter what the floors have dust/dirt. They look clean but, if I clean them a day later or a few hours later, the pad comes out dirty again.
I'm considering having the floors commercially cleaned by this company and was wondering if anyone had it done by them or others. Thank you.
Bogie Shooter
06-04-2009, 02:59 PM
[QUOTE=starflyte1;207337]
Our home is now for sale and the grout and tile would not come clean, even with a floor mate or a floor scrubber. Decided something had to be done to get it really clean, so I ordered an XV5000 on line.
Do you have the web site for the XV5000? Google was undable to locate.
starflyte1
06-04-2009, 03:33 PM
I,m sorry, it is the VX5000.
Bogie Shooter
06-04-2009, 04:19 PM
I,m sorry, it is the VX5000.
Web site, please.
starflyte1
06-04-2009, 05:26 PM
steam-cleaners-direct.com
jessic2q
07-14-2009, 02:00 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
I've had ceramic tile floors in the whole house for over 25 years and agree, soap doesn't work. I've always used warm water with white vinegar in it. It cuts grease and puts a great shine on the floor -- also, does NOT make the tile slippery like soap can.
Hope it works for you.
JeanneBeannie
07-14-2009, 06:16 AM
I have quite a large area of ceramic tiles and I clean it with bleach and water and they come out great! I even have a medium brown colored grout and it doesnt affect the color at all. I do that sometimes, and also do all my floors with my Eureka Delux Steam Cleaner for floors, much quicker and easier :faint:. I have had it forever...great machine.
P.S. Alittle off topic, but would like to suggest for any other type flooring is Don Aslett Cleaning Secrets Floor Restore. Everytime I do them, people think they are brand new floors! I never tried it on the ceramic tiles, but since I have the wonderful chore of doing all my floors tomorrow, I will try a small spot and let you all know how it works. :rolleyes:
willim4as
07-18-2009, 02:13 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
85% water - 15% vinegar. If it has a high gloss shine to it, this is a ceramic floor tile. Buy heavy duty steel wool, wear gloves, and gently work each tile and grout line. Home Depot, Lowe's sell a tool called "grout saw". Its not a real saw, but has a rough edge that will remove grout. Gently rob over bad areas to remove top surface of grout, then use water and vinegar.
Thanks!
hernando
07-18-2009, 08:39 PM
I use the Swiffer WetJet on my tile floors. It works great.
jessic2q
07-19-2009, 06:28 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
Hi CTgolfer,
I think 95% water -5% vinegar.this is a ceramic floor tile.
jessic2q
07-19-2009, 06:29 AM
The house we are purchasing has ceramic tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms. What is the best way to clean the ceramic tile? Which products are you using? In the past when I've had large areas with ceramic, most of the products left streaking after drying. It must be me.
Hi CTgolfer,
I think 95% water -5% vinegar.this is a ceramic floor tile.:bowdown::girlneener:
jessic2q
08-04-2009, 05:53 AM
Hi,
If you properly care for your rugs on a daily or weekly basis, then you may not have to do a deep cleaning
for a year or more. At such time, you can either opt to have your rugs cleaned by a professional or do it yourself. It may not be as difficult or expensive as you might think to do it yourself. First, decide if your rug really needs cleaned by one of the following methods:
1. Grab on of the rugs corners and kick it while holding the edge. If a lot of dirt flies out, then it is time to clean it.
2. Rub the pile vigorously for 10 seconds. If your hand is dirty, it's time to clean.
Once you’ve decided to clean you rug, try to move it outside to your garage or driveway. Begin by vacuuming both sides of the rug thoroughly, in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Next, shampoo the rug with cold water and a mild detergent. Be sure to test a small area for colorfastness to make sure that you won’t damage the color. Use a soft brush with long bristles or a strong soft sponge to release the dirt and grime. Resist the urge to scrub too vigorously as you may damage the delicate pile. Next clean the fringe using a laundry
jessic2q
08-10-2009, 05:21 AM
Hi everybody,
I am thinking about buying area rugs for my living room. But i have very high knowledge of the different rug styles and/or themes. I have heard of such names as traditional rugs, shag rugs or green rugs but whenever I buy the more rugs i have no idea so I am very confuse what they refer to. can anyone help me out here? .bowdown::girlneener:
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.