20 killed - Orlando

[outlaw]

Police: Approximately 20 killed in Florida club shooting (http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/435dd4b47ec7403888f74e9c5c3480b5/orlando-police-multiple-injuries-after-nightclub-shooting)

[ajbrown]

The media is in full frenzy. Every channel, same thing...:ohdear:

My disdain for the media in general should not be interpreted that I do not care about this incident, I do.

The pain this will cause so many... they will be devastated and some will never recover. I cannot imagine... and I pray for them.

The media, that is another story....

[Phanatic Luvr]

So senseless! So many lives lost and others hurt. Prayers are with all and their families.

[EnglishJW]

The media is in full frenzy. Every channel, same thing...:ohdear:

My disdain for the media in general should not be interpreted that I do not care about this incident, I do.

The pain this will cause so many... they will be devastated and some will never recover. I cannot imagine... and I pray for them.

The media, that is another story....

I fully agree.

[Taltarzac725]

It looks like a hate crime/terrorist attack against the gay/lesbian community in Orlando.

Pulse gay club: Suspect in mass shooting dead, police say - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/)

[outlaw]

Update - Suspected Islamic extremist shoots dead at least 20 dead at Florida gay club after bursting in 'wearing a suicide vest' and taking hostages - injuring a further 42 - before he is killed in shootout | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html)

[graciegirl]

Both of our grandchildren are employed by the media and both of them are responsible journalists. But situations occur that dead time must be filled.

Life is never black and white...at least that is how it looks to me as I get older. I liked it when I KNEW what was WRONG. Actually, the older I get I find fewer absolutes and many, many, many questions..

[justjim]

The media is in full frenzy. Every channel, same thing...:ohdear:

My disdain for the media in general should not be interpreted that I do not care about this incident, I do.

The pain this will cause so many... they will be devastated and some will never recover. I cannot imagine... and I pray for them.

The media, that is another story....

With all due respect, what do you expect the media to do in a situation like this? Prayers for all the victims and their families and friends. We should be thankful we have freedom of the press in this country---it may not be all good but like you said ---that is another story.

[Taltarzac725]

With all due respect, what do you expect the media to do in a situation like this? Prayers for all the victims and their families and friends. We should be thankful we have freedom of the press in this country---it may not be all good but like you said ---that is another story.

The media is very much needed as a check-and--balance on those who would abuse their power.

I would wait though about what the facts are in this situation.

[karostay]

It could very well come to a square near you
The world is nuts time for the system to stop handing out slaps on the wrist and get rid of the bad apples

[Madelaine Amee]

It might have been better for people to wait to see and hear the full extent of this shooting before pouncing on the media for reporting it. There is a suggestion that it is more than "just a shooting". If it turns out to be a terrorist attack there will be more and more media attention.

[Taltarzac725]

It might have been better for people to wait to see and hear the full extent of this shooting before pouncing on the media for reporting it. There is a suggestion that it is more than "just a shooting". If it turns out to be a terrorist attack there will be more and more media attention.

The location suggests that the gunman had a hatred for gays/lesbians. Whether that hatred is based on his religion or culture is another matter.

[spuds51]

With all due respect, what do you expect the media to do in a situation like this? Prayers for all the victims and their families and friends. We should be thankful we have freedom of the press in this country---it may not be all good but like you said ---that is another story.

It's not the reporting on the incident that angers me. It's the showing of a gunmans face and telling his name and telling his story and giving him exactly what he wanted. His 15 min of (in his mind) fame. The ones that are really paying attention are the next crazed gunman that wants to tell his story.

[dbussone]

10:30 - press conference underway. 50 now announced as dead. Another 53 in the hospital. Shooter was a US citizen. Parents are from Afghanistan. FBI is investigating as a terror attack. The shooter had made threats and terror comments in the past and was known to police agencies.

Please pray for the families and victims.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Madelaine Amee]

10:30 - press conference underway. 50 now announced as dead. Another 53 in the hospital. Shooter was a US citizen. Parents are from Afghanistan. FBI is investigating as a terror attack. The shooter had made threats and terror comments in the past and was known to police agencies.

Please pray for the families and victims.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for the comprehensive update, unfortunately I am away from the TV and did not hear this.

If we were a police state we would incarcerate the crazies who go around preaching hatred, but we live in a country with free speech (thank goodness), so there will be many more after this one.

[VApeople]

I think the moral to this story is to not be part of a group in an enclosed space with few exits. Listening to music at the squares is probably OK because it would be easier to run away if someone started causing trouble. Going to a crowded indoor performance may not be as safe.

[VApeople]

If we were a police state we would incarcerate the crazies who go around preaching hatred

Unfortunately, many people consider the "crazies" to be anyone who disagrees with their point of view.

[graciegirl]

With all due respect, what do you expect the media to do in a situation like this? Prayers for all the victims and their families and friends. We should be thankful we have freedom of the press in this country---it may not be all good but like you said ---that is another story.

My problem is not the media handling and reporting the news, my problem is the media giving us their opinion of what happened. Now it is being kicked around like a football. A domestic terror attack, a hate crime, a regular terror attack. I want just the facts. I don't want their spin on the subject, unless it is an editorial. Good journalism is sure of facts and reports them...and I know about ratings.

I do feel empathy for the producers and writers whose job it is to fill empty time.

Fifty people lost their lives due to one person filled with hatred. There are no words for how terrible that is.

[BK001]

In the middle of all the horrific news about this shooting, one uplifting note is that 2 blood banks in Orlando decided to open today and there are now hundreds of people lined up to donate much needed blood. Prayers for the victims and the good guys.

[Taltarzac725]

In the middle of all the horrific news about this shooting, one uplifting note is that 2 blood banks in Orlando decided to open today and there are now hundreds of people lined up to donate much needed blood. Prayers for the victims and the good guys.

I was set to donate soon anyway and I am AB-. This would be platelets though. And it depends on my iron levels.

The shooter seems to be someone who was very upset when he saw some men kissing in Miami according to his father. This just might be someone full of rage who had an opportunity to express that rage through the use of weapons with the ability to kill many people quickly.

I doubt if it had anything to do with religion or with ISIS. Just another thug with a grudge with access to weapons like he had.

[outlaw]

I was set to donate soon anyway and I am AB-. This would be platelets though. And it depends on my iron levels.

The shooter seems to be someone who was very upset when he saw some men kissing in Miami according to his father. This just might be someone full of rage who had an opportunity to express that rage through the use of weapons with the ability to kill many people quickly.

I doubt if it had anything to do with religion or with ISIS. Just another thug with a grudge with access to weapons like he had.

It had everything to do with his religion. This is only the beginning. Name any country that is predominately Muslim and see how gays flourish.

[Taltarzac725]

It had everything to do with his religion. This is only the beginning. Name any country that is predominately Muslim and see how gays flourish.

LGBT in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam)

I was talking about this specific act by a US citizen in Orlando. Not about how gays are treated in Muslim nations.

[pauld315]

I was set to donate soon anyway and I am AB-. This would be platelets though. And it depends on my iron levels.

The shooter seems to be someone who was very upset when he saw some men kissing in Miami according to his father. This just might be someone full of rage who had an opportunity to express that rage through the use of weapons with the ability to kill many people quickly.

I doubt if it had anything to do with religion or with ISIS. Just another thug with a grudge with access to weapons like he had.

Guess we'll see. Congressman Peter King of the Homeland Security Committee seems to disagree though but is not able to disclose fully what he knows yet . This guy has been investigated before by the FBI Terrorist Investigators. Islamic beliefs are totally against homosexual behavior and in those countries if it is proven that you are homosexual they will throw you off the top of a building to your death. If you are still alive when you hit the ground, they will stone you to death. Pulse was a known gun-free zone that catered to the gay community. Talk about an easy target rich place for a radical Islamic terrorist. ISIS announced 3 days ago that they were going to attack Florida. Was this it ? Some news organizations are reporting there was an ISIS connection with this guy.

[pauld315]

LGBT in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam)

I was talking about this specific act by a US citizen in Orlando. Not about how gays are treated in Muslim nations.

These terrorists are fighting for the preservation and acceptance of their beliefs throughout the world. This is part of Sharia Law which they totally believe in. This isn't a typical American, this is a radicalized American Islamic terrorist..

[manaboutown]

Guess we'll see. Congressman Peter King of the Homeland Security Committee seems to disagree though but is not able to disclose fully what he knows yet . This guy has been investigated before by the FBI Terrorist Investigators. Islamic beliefs are totally against homosexual behavior and in those countries if it is proven that you are homosexual they will throw you off the top of a building to your death. If you are still alive when you hit the ground, they will stone you to death. Pulse was a known gun-free zone that catered to the gay community. Talk about an easy target rich place for a radical Islamic terrorist. ISIS announced 3 days ago that they were going to attack Florida. Was this it ? Some news organizations are reporting there was an ISIS connection with this guy.

This sums it up well. Thank you!

[Taltarzac725]

These terrorists are fighting for the preservation and acceptance of their beliefs throughout the world. This is part of Sharia Law which they totally believe in. This isn't a typical American, this is a radicalized American Islamic terrorist..

We will see. From the CNN reports the shooter sounds like a man who hated gays. He was from a Muslim family. That's all. No connection to ISIS other than that disgusting fascist group applauding this depraved act.

Gays have been the targets of many fascist groups over the years from the Italians under Mussolini, to the Nazis who put them in death camps, to the Soviets who probably said that gays were mentally ill and needed to be locked up. LGBT history in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia)

Isole Tremiti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isole_Tremiti)

Persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the _Holocaust)

[manaboutown]

Homosexuality carries the death penalty in five officially Islamic countries: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan and Yemen. It formerly carried the death penalty in Afghanistan under the Taliban and in Iraq under Hussein.

This mass murderer's family came from Afghanistan.

[ajbrown]

With all due respect, what do you expect the media to do in a situation like this? Prayers for all the victims and their families and friends. We should be thankful we have freedom of the press in this country---it may not be all good but like you said ---that is another story.

I am not sure, how about break in for 5 minutes every hour?

I just came home from golf. All channels are still covering the story. Now I have to listen to 'experts' tell me what happened (without facts).

Will golf be on? Please do not think that I think watching golf is more important than this horrific event because I do not, BUT why should every channel be showing the same thing?

Every major channel, showing the same thing, bringing on whatever expert they have.... at some point let cable news networks cover it.... CNN, FOX, MSNBC....

Just my opinion of course, but how many times can you say the same thing and call it 'breaking news'?

I am now seeing video I saw before I went to golf and a new expert telling me what it means :ohdear:

[goodtimesintv]

"Shooter was a US citizen. Parents are from Afghanistan. FBI is investigating as a terror attack. The shooter had made threats and terror comments in the past and was known to police agencies...."

Islamic nations and terror subsidiaries of them have been hurling homosexuals off rooftops for all the public to see them splatter and die, for years. And it doesn't even make the news in this country because calling messengers of fact "racists" is tolerated before even defending gay people.

Today, at least, hand-holding pals of these demons are using the words "possible" "terrorist", in the same articles that say the massacre killer is a Muslim.

Maybe it's a start to people waking up and speaking out about their killing of gay people all along and how that is the terrorists' agenda to impose here.

[Cathy H]

I think the moral to this story is to not be part of a group in an enclosed space with few exits. Listening to music at the squares is probably OK because it would be easier to run away if someone started causing trouble. Going to a crowded indoor performance may not be as safe.

the real moral is we must keep automatic guns off the open market

[manaboutown]

the real moral is we must keep automatic guns off the open market

Perhaps, but the bad guys do not need open markets to obtain weaponry.

[Fredster]

the real moral is we must keep automatic guns off the open market

Do you know for a fact that the gun he used was fully automatic?
Do you know that fully automatic guns are illegal for just about everyone to own or possess?
Do you know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic guns?
And fully automatic guns are already not available on the open market!
Problem is that a lot of people really don't know very much about guns or existing laws that pertain to them.

[blueash]

This was terrorism inspired by the particular sect of Islam he adhered to, inspired by hatred of LGBT that is also shared by fundamentalists in other faiths. With multiple targets available including US government targets as he apparently was employed by a security agency, he went out of his way, left his community to find an LGBT target. So yes, this was fundamentalist terrorism, but the target was one that has also been targeted by far too many other faiths and even politicians. My opinion, the response to this type of attempt to terrorize us is to refuse to be terrorized, to continue our lives, to not be afraid to go to movies or travel or go to gay clubs.

For a story on a slaughter at a gay institution and our churches' response, for the sake of historical accuracy..
Gay Weddings and 32 Funerals: Remembering the UpStairs Lounge Fire (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erik-ose/gay-weddings-and-32-funer_b_110084.html) Our mainline institutions do not have clean hands. None of that of course excuses or justifies this slaughter. As our country liberalizes, hopefully the hate so tolerated just a few years ago is being shoved into the closet.

[dbussone]

ISIS has claimed responsibility for the terror attack in Orlando.

[graciegirl]

Man with weapons, explosives arrested near Los Angeles; claimed he was going to gay pride parade | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV (http://pix11.com/2016/06/12/man-with-weapons-explosives-arrested-near-los-angeles-claimed-he-was-going-to-gay-pride-parade/)

[Sandtrap328]

ISIS has claimed responsibility for the terror attack in Orlando.

...even IF they had nothing to do with it, they would claim responsibility just to look as powerful as possible.

We do not know full facts yet.

[dbussone]

...even IF they had nothing to do with it, they would claim responsibility just to look as powerful as possible.



We do not know full facts yet.



Of course they would. And they did. And if you need to wait for 100% of the facts to come in before coming to a conclusion - then one time you just might wait 30 seconds too long. This is not solely an issue of criminal justice, it is also becoming a matter of personal survival.

UPDATE: ABC reports that the killer called 911 from the club and pledged allegiance to ISIS.

[redwitch]

First, my heart goes out to all those personally affected. What this thing (sorry, even the liberal in me cannot think of OM as human) did in killing 50 and wounding another 53 is an obscenity to the nth degree. It is a tragedy of the ugliest kind.

To call it an act of terrorism is too easy to my mind. It was a hate crime. The fact this thing had been on watch lists by Homeland Security and the FBI is irrelevant. I truly believe it would have acted the same way whether a Muslim, a fundamentalist Christian or just a homophobic arsehole. Its goal was to kill members of the Gay community, a goal tragically met.

[Spinning3]

This tragedy is not the time for a debate about the media. This is a time to stand with our LGBT brothers and sisters and pray for the deceased and injured.

[BritParrothead]

Well, I was awake at 05:00 this Sunday morning. That is 05:00 United kingdom time.
I decided not to turn on the TV until later.
Oh, you poor souls. You were only out partying on a Saturday night. So sad.. I feel for you and your loved ones. Awful, Awful times..
My husband is a retired London cop. He never had the need, or want, to carry a weapon. 30 years service!!!!
Now, we are getting this type of killings in London.
I can not say anything else.
R I P

[ajbrown]

My goodness, back from lunch, now I am listening to an expert about why this happened without the investigation complete.

Every channel, same story, same video, blah blah blah.... I would like to see the final round of the PGA tournament, I would like to see the final round of the LPGA major.... NO can do, NO WAY; we in the media need to make a name for ourselves...

I wish to reiterate, my rant is against the media frenzy, I am so saddened for the people affected by this horrific act, but it does not need to be on every channel IMO

[Taltarzac725]

I hope none of the gays/lesbians I have met here in the Villages were there last night in Orlando. But they probably have friends or know friends who had friends who were at that nightclub when this horrific act was committed by this hateful terrorist.

My heart goes out to the people who were affected by this mass killer's evil.

[cquick]

The media is in full frenzy. Every channel, same thing...:ohdear:

My disdain for the media in general should not be interpreted that I do not care about this incident, I do.

The pain this will cause so many... they will be devastated and some will never recover. I cannot imagine... and I pray for them.

The media, that is another story....

I am so sorry you feel this way......this is a very important story.
Most people in the country feel differently than you do.

[cquick]

It looks like a hate crime/terrorist attack against the gay/lesbian community in Orlando.

Pulse gay club: Suspect in mass shooting dead, police say - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/)

I don't think it matters that it was a nightclub and a terrorist attack against gay/lesbian community. It matters that the victims were people.......

[ajbrown]

I am so sorry you feel this way......this is a very important story.
Most people in the country feel differently than you do.

I want to make myself clear, I am not uncaring at all. This is a horrific event. This is a very important story, I am so sad for everyone involved.

It is not the story, it is the media frenzy... they do this every time....

My point is in 2 hours of the SAME coverage ON ALL CHANNELS; I get 5 minutes of information... over and over and over....

I could watch the LPGA final round and then check in every hour.... and still care and pray...

[outlaw]

This was terrorism inspired by the particular sect of Islam he adhered to, inspired by hatred of LGBT that is also shared by fundamentalists in other faiths. With multiple targets available including US government targets as he apparently was employed by a security agency, he went out of his way, left his community to find an LGBT target. So yes, this was fundamentalist terrorism, but the target was one that has also been targeted by far too many other faiths and even politicians. My opinion, the response to this type of attempt to terrorize us is to refuse to be terrorized, to continue our lives, to not be afraid to go to movies or travel or go to gay clubs.

For a story on a slaughter at a gay institution and our churches' response, for the sake of historical accuracy..
Gay Weddings and 32 Funerals: Remembering the UpStairs Lounge Fire (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erik-ose/gay-weddings-and-32-funer_b_110084.html) Our mainline institutions do not have clean hands. None of that of course excuses or justifies this slaughter. As our country liberalizes, hopefully the hate so tolerated just a few years ago is being shoved into the closet.

You don't get it. We are bringing these people into our country. Good luck with that.

[outlaw]

i want to make myself clear, i am not uncaring at all. This is a horrific event. This is a very important story, i am so sad for everyone involved.

It is not the story, it is the media frenzy...

My point is in 2 hours of the same coverage on all channels; i get 5 minutes of information... Over and over and over....

I could watch the lpga final round and then check in every hour.... And still care and pray...

lpga?

[Marathon Man]

I want to make myself clear, I am not uncaring at all. This is a horrific event. This is a very important story, I am so sad for everyone involved.

It is not the story, it is the media frenzy... they do this every time....

My point is in 2 hours of the SAME coverage ON ALL CHANNELS; I get 5 minutes of information... over and over and over....

I could watch the LPGA final round and then check in every hour.... and still care and pray...

Right. Sad. And no golf.

[ajbrown]

Right. Sad. And no golf.

Right... and it is not that golf is more important than this event, I would never think that...

It is that every channel, same news, in a loop with different panel 'experts' telling is what to think... :ohdear:

[Taltarzac725]

Right... and it is not that golf is more important than this event, I would never think that...

It is that every channel, same news, in a loop with different panel 'experts' telling is what to think... :ohdear:

The golf seems to be on another channel. Click around.

[Walt.]

Every channel, same story, same video, blah blah blah.... I would like to see the final round of the PGA tournament, I would like to see the final round of the LPGA major.... NO can do, NO WAY; we in the media need to make a name for ourselves...

I wish to reiterate, my rant is against the media frenzy, I am so saddened for the people affected by this horrific act, but it does not need to be on every channel IMO

You're right of course. This has been a trend for a few years now. Just about a week ago there was a murder-suicide in California that resulted in continuous rehashing of the 2 minutes of actual content for hours. No news value at all.
Do we really need to know what so-and-so Tweeted?

[ajbrown]

The golf seems to be on another channel. Click around.

Tal, I do not wish this thread to turn into 'Alan needs golf', but I do not think any golf is on except the golf channel (senior tour). The PGA and LPGA are not on that I can find.

if you look at the channel that the LPGA should be on there is a video that I saw at 8:30 this AM :ohdear:.

[Taltarzac725]

Head in sand.

No. Not really. I have met a lot of Muslims from different countries. My closest friend Mahmood Jergis Mohammad in library school at the University of Denver did become radicalized by the Iran-Iraq War. And his brother was far up in Saddam Hussein's army. I knew him at the University of Denver along with a small group of Muslims/Arabs. He was a librarian at the University of Mosul. The last I checked he was still there.

Could he have done something like this killer in Orlando? Maybe, given his extremism created by his circumstances.

This was in 1983-1984 that I knew him and his letters to me in Scottsdale and Belmont then in Minneapolis got more and more radicalized. We broke off all communication around 1986.

There are many non-radicalized very good and non-violent Muslims in the United States.

You need these people to STOP the terrorism from happening here as they are the ones who know what is going on in their communities. It is STUPID to alienate people you want to help you out with preventing future actions like the one in Orlando last night.

ISIS has had control of the University of Mosul for more than a year from what I gather. So, I suppose my former friend Mahmood is either dead or joined them. They murder people who do not share their extremely radical beliefs.

I do not see ISIS as a religious organization but as a group of zealot fascists bending a religion to serve their own evil agenda much like the Nazis or Mussolini's Italian followers bent Christianity to serve their own goals. Religion in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany)

[bimmertl]

Right. Sad. And no golf.

Golf in rain delay all PM. Supposed to start again at 5PM Eastern.

Go toPGA website. Should be able to get live stream if and when it starts up again.

[Taltarzac725]

Tal, I do not wish this thread to turn into 'Alan needs golf', but I do not think any golf is on except the golf channel (senior tour). The PGA and LPGA are not on that I can find.

if you look at the channel that the LPGA should be on there is a video that I saw at 8:30 this AM :ohdear:.

The FedEx St. Jude Classic is on WKMGDT2. Channel 7 on Prism CenturyLink. It is pre-empting Miami Vice. It is CBS.

FedEx St. Jude Classic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_St._Jude_Classic)

[LyndaS]

This tragedy is not the time for a debate about the media. This is a time to stand with our LGBT brothers and sisters and pray for the deceased and injured.

Spinning3, Thank you so much!!! I live in The Villages and am a member of the LGBT community. I was heart-broken that my Villages family seemed more concerned about the media and not being able to watch their regular programming than this tragic evil act. I thank others who have also had comforting remarks but yours' specifically spoke to what my heart was feeling.

[graciegirl]

Spinning3, Thank you so much!!! I live in The Villages and am a member of the LGBT community. I was heart-broken that my Villages family seemed more concerned about the media and not being able to watch their regular programming than this tragic evil act. I thank others who have also had comforting remarks but yours' specifically spoke to what my heart was feeling.

I hope you saw mine on Facebook. Hugs and love.

[LyndaS]

I hope you saw mine on Facebook. Hugs and love.

Hi Gracie, You know you are one of my favorite people! Yes, I saw your post on facebook. thank you! Love to you and your family.

[kcrazorbackfan]

the real moral is we must keep automatic guns off the open market

I wondered who would be the first to cry about that. Only the criminals and terrorists will have these guns if banned; is that what YOU really want?

[outlaw]

No. Not really. I have met a lot of Muslims from different countries. My closest friend Mahmood Jergis Mohammad in library school at the University of Denver did become radicalized by the Iran-Iraq War. And his brother was far up in Saddam Hussein's army. I knew him at the University of Denver along with a small group of Muslims/Arabs. He was a librarian at the University of Mosul. The last I checked he was still there.

Could he have done something like this killer in Orlando? Maybe, given his extremism created by his circumstances.

This was in 1983-1984 that I knew him and his letters to me in Scottsdale and Belmont then in Minneapolis got more and more radicalized. We broke off all communication around 1986.

There are many non-radicalized very good and non-violent Muslims in the United States.

You need these people to STOP the terrorism from happening here as they are the ones who know what is going on in their communities. It is STUPID to alienate people you want to help you out with preventing future actions like the one in Orlando last night.

ISIS has had control of the University of Mosul for more than a year from what I gather. So, I suppose my former friend Mahmood is either dead or joined them. They murder people who do not share their extremely radical beliefs.

I do not see ISIS as a religious organization but as a group of zealot fascists bending a religion to serve their own evil agenda much like the Nazis or Mussolini's Italian followers bent Christianity to serve their own goals. Religion in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany)

Your own experience has your best friend becoming a radicalized muslim, and you still keep your eyes closed to the obvious. You blame his radicalization on his "circumstances". Unbelievable. Why is it almost none of these "good" muslims ever step forward to denounce these attacks or turn in their neighborhood radicals?

[obxgal]

Tal, I do not wish this thread to turn into 'Alan needs golf', but I do not think any golf is on except the golf channel (senior tour). The PGA and LPGA are not on that I can find.

if you look at the channel that the LPGA should be on there is a video that I saw at 8:30 this AM :ohdear:.

St Jude tournament on CNBC centurylink 1216

I needed a break from the Orlando murders.

[LyndaS]

Your own experience has your best friend becoming a radicalized muslim, and you still keep your eyes closed to the obvious. You blame his radicalization on his "circumstances". Unbelievable. Why is it almost none of these "good" muslims ever step forward to denounce these attacks or turn in their neighborhood radicals?

Tal,

I just want to thank you for being the kind, thoughtful person who you are. You have dedicated your life to victims rights and again, I thank you!
Lynda

[manaboutown]

Looks like Omar was a follower of a radical Imam. No surprise. Orlando gunman tied to radical imam released from prison last year, say law enforcement sources | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html)

[pauld315]

I am disgusted by today's events. We have a radical Islamic terrorist dead who wantonly killed 50+ Americans in Orlando. We have a President and the presumptive Democratic nominee unable to even say the words radical Islamic terrorist when describing what happened. Such Political Correctness is hurting this great nation. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the loved ones these people left behind. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the people that were killed or injured by this madness. My heart is full of anger for the powers to be that are not protecting Americans the way they deserve by not even admitting to what happened. My heart is full of anger for these terrorists that want to destroy America. God Bless America and the American people.

[Matzy]

50+ people shot dead, 53 injured, ISIS official took responsibility. The shooter was U.S.citizen like in the similar event in San Bernardino December last year. Those are the facts.
I just can't understand the motives of such people. Does this people have a heart, feelings? Do they really know what they are doing?
I do pray for the victims and their families, and I hope that the injured can recover from their wounds.
But can people recover from that what they saw, through what they underwent...... ? And what do we do in this moments. There is something buried in our hearts that will do something to prevent such incidents and we are searching (automatically) for a blameworthy person, institution, etc. But is that really all what we can do?
I am always looking for an answer..... right now without any results.

[graciegirl]

I am disgusted by today's events. We have a radical Islamic terrorist dead who wantonly killed 50+ Americans in Orlando. We have a President and the presumptive Democratic nominee unable to even say the words radical Islamic terrorist when describing what happened. Such Political Correctness is hurting this great nation. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the loved ones these people left behind. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the people that were killed or injured by this madness. My heart is full of anger for the powers to be that are not protecting Americans the way they deserve by not even admitting to what happened. My heart is full of anger for these terrorists that want to destroy America. God Bless America and the American people.

I understand your feelings. This has been a very, very, bad day indeed. I am glad to be here with wise, caring people who are not strangers to sadness and help each other cope.

[Bosoxfan]

I am disgusted by today's events. We have a radical Islamic terrorist dead who wantonly killed 50+ Americans in Orlando. We have a President and the presumptive Democratic nominee unable to even say the words radical Islamic terrorist when describing what happened. Such Political Correctness is hurting this great nation. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the loved ones these people left behind. My heart is very heavy tonight for all the people that were killed or injured by this madness. My heart is full of anger for the powers to be that are not protecting Americans the way they deserve by not even admitting to what happened. My heart is full of anger for these terrorists that want to destroy America. God Bless America and the American people.

Very well said. You've put into words how I've been feeling all day.

[Taltarzac725]

Tal,

I just want to thank you for being the kind, thoughtful person who you are. You have dedicated your life to victims rights and again, I thank you!
Lynda

Thanks. Lots of sacrifices made by me and my family to fight for the access to practical information for survivors/victims of crimes. Things have improved a lot in the 25.5 years I have been doing this after I discovered the niche while trying to help my fellow Earl Wooster High School students cope with the 2-24-1976 murder of Michelle Mitchell. A couple of lesbians were caught up in the fervor to solve the crime and it eventually turned out the wrong person was convicted-- twice-- and just recently released in 2015. She made a false confession and is a paranoid schizophrenic. The cases are complicated though and the Michelle Mitchell murder was one of the worst crimes in Northern Nevada in the 20th Century according to Northern Nevadan law enforcement. Woods v. State :: 1985 :: Supreme Court of Nevada Decisions :: Nevada Case Law :: Nevada Law :: U.S. Law :: Justia (http://law.justia.com/cases/nevada/supreme-court/1985/13318-1.html)

I only started fighting for better access to practical information after I had earned four degrees to give me some credibility in this struggle. But, I also had those real life experiences with the Michelle Mitchell murder investigation which started right around February 24, 1976.

I have had a lot of help from the gay/lesbian community with this struggle but I am basing this on intuition and hope that the people I have contacted over the past 25.5 years have seen the importance of what I had been trying to do.

I cannot even imagine all the pain and suffering that so many families in the Orlando area are going through tonight because of one man's hatred for gays/lesbians based on some perverted ideology.

I did see the grief of the Michelle Mitchell family as well as that of many of her English students at Earl Wooster High School in Reno, Nevada. 2-24 is also my birthday so you can imagine what that feels like.

It seems I have been involved with the victims' rights movement in some way since walking into the classroom at Earl Wooster High School and eventually learning that Michelle had been murdered the night before and that some of my classmates were being questioned about it by the police.

[goodtimesintv]

Seeing a sadly sick trend on Facebook regarding this depraved, demonic killer:

Instead of blaming this killer and the sick islamic governments that execute gays by beheadings or throwing them off rooftops, many LGBT people are using this horrific event to stereotype and brand regular, decent Americans as the cause of this "hate" toward gays. No accountability for the killer, and none for the mosque teachers who radicalized him.

It's a sickly twisted story line that needs to stop, right now.

[rubicon]

Sorry but once I got a first glimpse of the event I made it a point to stay away from the news and related reports. Here is why. The news, print, digital and optic will go on ad nauseam about this event.....and non stop.

The politicos will begin their political spin. Or some will blame Christians because Christians cause the hatred of gay people in this nation encouraging this attack.

The mainstream media will beat up on the NRA, Christian Churches Republicans.

Democrats lament Republicans stupidity concerning building a wall and the 2nd amendment. Yet, the Dems will erect a wall around the convention center in Philly and hire extra security for their July convention. Isn't that ironic.

But the biggest reason I stay away from all of this as much as possible is because people in general will get all emotional, then suddenly blink and deflate .

We all know what the real problems are in this nation but we have manifest incompetence among political leaders who either have no backbone or only their self interests or both. Our problems are complex but the solutions are simple if you have the will and the guts

[CFrance]

Do you know for a fact that the gun he used was fully automatic?
Do you know that fully automatic guns are illegal for just about everyone to own or possess?
Do you know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic guns?
And fully automatic guns are already not available on the open market!
Problem is that a lot of people really don't know very much about guns or existing laws that pertain to them.
Set aside fully automatic rifles... Do you know for a fact that the state of Florida (among others) allows the sale of assault rifles? And that they also allow the sale of the larger magazines? And that assault rifles that cannot accept the larger magazines can be easily adapted to do so?

[graciegirl]

It was hate that killed those people. He would probably have blown himself up if he had no rifle with a bomb made of fertilizer available everywhere.

Let's not forget that there is a real danger with radicalized people.

I think you were wrong Rubicon not to watch our local news. All three stations staff were amazingly responsible journalists without spin or any private opinions. They over time were noticeably fatigued in the heat and after being on for more than ten hours. I think they did a far better job than the national stations. I think they handled the conveyance of facts with clarity and sensitivity. It was interesting to see a couple people try to horn in with politics, but they weren't encouraged. I think that the investigation has proceeded carefully and with extreme caution.

I think there will be a great deal more to the story with the shooter's father. There is something not right there.

[Taltarzac725]

It was hate that killed those people. He would probably have blown himself up if he had no rifle with a bomb made of fertilizer available everywhere.

Let's not forget that there is a real danger with radicalized people.

I think you were wrong Rubicon not to watch our local news. All three stations staff were amazingly responsible journalists without spin or any private opinions. They over time were noticeably fatigued in the heat and after being on for more than ten hours. I think they did a far better job than the national stations. I think they handled the conveyance of facts with clarity and sensitivity. It was interesting to see a couple people try to horn in with politics, but they weren't encouraged. I think that the investigation has proceeded carefully and with extreme caution.

I think there will be a great deal more to the story with the shooter's father. There is something not right there.

You are right about the father especially after hearing the ex-wife talk about her experiences with his son.

[Chatbrat]

Hitler banned guns 13 million dead, Stalin banned guns 20 million dead, Cambodia banned guns 1 million intellectuals dead, China banned guns 50 million dead

The absence of guns does nothing but guarantee easy undefended victims.

If there were more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been less carnage

We must realize that WWIII has started.

[RickeyD]

Hitler banned guns 13 million dead, Stalin banned guns 20 million dead, Cambodia banned guns 1 million intellectuals dead, China banned guns 50 million dead

The absence of guns does nothing but guarantee easy undefended victims.

If there were more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been less carnage

We must realize that WWIII has started.



I prefer reading history, not being part of it. When humans act like humans in the worst ways possible there is no solution. You say WWIII has started, I say we are entering a new dark age.

[Taltarzac725]

I prefer reading history, not being part of it. When humans act like humans in the worst ways possible there is no solution. You say WWIII has started, I say we are entering a new dark age.

We have been in it since 9/11.

The enemy just transforms every once in a while. Right now it is fear and stupidity.

[skip0358]

If anyone is interested there is a Blood Drive tomorrow at Fire Station #44 on Morse Blvd S/O Rt. 466A. from 9 to 4. If you'd care to help out in some way.Blood is still needed.

[outlaw]

Set aside fully automatic rifles... Do you know for a fact that the state of Florida (among others) allows the sale of assault rifles? And that they also allow the sale of the larger magazines? And that assault rifles that cannot accept the larger magazines can be easily adapted to do so?

No. Florida doesn't allow for the sale of assault rifles, except in very limited cases and subject to an onerous and expensive licensing process. What you mean is Florida allows for the sale of black scary looking rifles that LOOK like assault rifles. Remove the pistol grip, install a wood stock, remove the rails, and you have a lower powered hunting rifle.

[goldseekur]

Hitler banned guns 13 million dead, Stalin banned guns 20 million dead, Cambodia banned guns 1 million intellectuals dead, China banned guns 50 million dead

The absence of guns does nothing but guarantee easy undefended victims.

If there were more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been less carnage

We must realize that WWIII has started.

No one is calling for the COMPLETE banning of guns in the US, just banning semi & automatic rifles. These types of guns do NOT belong in main stream America or any other country for civilians to purchase.

Not to make light of the tragedy in Orlando or any of the other mass shootings that have happened in the US, but if these people had only guns that did not shoot 45 - 60 rounds in a minute for semi automatic and up to 1000 rounds per minute for automatic weapons, the outcomes would be completely different.

[kstew43]

Unfortunately, many people consider the "crazies" to be anyone who disagrees with their point of view.

so true...

[dbussone]

No one is calling for the COMPLETE banning of guns in the US, just banning semi & automatic rifles. These types of guns do NOT belong in main stream America or any other country for civilians to purchase.



Not to make light of the tragedy in Orlando or any of the other mass shootings that have happened in the US, but if these people had only guns that did not shoot 45 - 60 rounds in a minute for semi automatic and up to 1000 rounds per minute for automatic weapons, the outcomes would be completely different.



First, automatic weapons are not generally available in the US. To obtain one a very special, very expensive license is required. The weapon itself would probably cost another $20-25K. I know only of one person who owns one. He is a collector of military memorabilia. And because of his past, brilliant military career, I am not losing any sleep over his weapon ownership.

Second, I have a semi-automatic shotgun that I used for skeet & trap shooting. I doubt any LEO would consider me a major threat for owning it.

More of the information in the post is also challengeable, but all I'm going to do is make that notation.

I will also note that I feel safer in TV knowing that there are so many former LEOs and military who carry all the time.

[ColdNoMore]

This was terrorism inspired by the particular sect of Islam he adhered to, inspired by hatred of LGBT that is also shared by fundamentalists in other faiths. With multiple targets available including US government targets as he apparently was employed by a security agency, he went out of his way, left his community to find an LGBT target. So yes, this was fundamentalist terrorism, but the target was one that has also been targeted by far too many other faiths and even politicians. My opinion, the response to this type of attempt to terrorize us is to refuse to be terrorized, to continue our lives, to not be afraid to go to movies or travel or go to gay clubs.

For a story on a slaughter at a gay institution and our churches' response, for the sake of historical accuracy..
Gay Weddings and 32 Funerals: Remembering the UpStairs Lounge Fire (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erik-ose/gay-weddings-and-32-funer_b_110084.html) Our mainline institutions do not have clean hands. None of that of course excuses or justifies this slaughter. As our country liberalizes, hopefully the hate so tolerated just a few years ago is being shoved into the closet.


:BigApplause:....:BigApplause:....:BigApplause:

[dbussone]

Both of our grandchildren are employed by the media and both of them are responsible journalists. But situations occur that dead time must be filled.

Life is never black and white...at least that is how it looks to me as I get older. I liked it when I KNEW what was WRONG. Actually, the older I get I find fewer absolutes and many, many, many questions..



"Life is never black and white." So very true. Unfortunately, Gracie, many have to make things black and white because they have difficulty dealing with the complexities of situations which are not black and white.

"If only...(fill in the words)"...seldom provides a true solution to any issue or problem.

[Walt.]

I wondered who would be the first to cry about that. Only the criminals and terrorists will have these guns if banned; is that what YOU really want?

I'm just surprised it took almost an hour or two for the anti-gun folks to start the blame shifting.
On our local Fox station yesterday someone went on about the shooter being on the FBI's "Watch List" twice and stated he wasn't on it at this time. Then they went to a clip of Marco Rubio and the first question they asked was "How do you feel when someone that was on the watch list could so easily buy guns?"
When the dust settles this will be "proof" that America needs to address it's anti-gay sentiment and it's pro-gun mentality. Oh yeah, the problem is "rhetoric from the presidential campaign." It's everything but what it really is.

[Allegiance]

The big point in my opinion is: law enforcement only has a finite amount of monies for surveillance and investigation. If they have to spend X dollars to vet newly arriving Muslims then there is less for domestic threats like the Orlando guy. That guy should have absolutely been the target of a sting operation. He should have been locked up long ago.

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[outlaw]

No one is calling for the COMPLETE banning of guns in the US, just banning semi & automatic rifles. These types of guns do NOT belong in main stream America or any other country for civilians to purchase.

Not to make light of the tragedy in Orlando or any of the other mass shootings that have happened in the US, but if these people had only guns that did not shoot 45 - 60 rounds in a minute for semi automatic and up to 1000 rounds per minute for automatic weapons, the outcomes would be completely different.

2012 crime stats: murders committed with all firearms: 8,855
murders committed with rifles (all types): 322 (4 killed by AR-15)
Slate estimated AR-15 ownership: 3,750,000

So you see. Banning AR-15s will do little to save lives. Banning ALL rifles will do little to save lives. What you want is to START with banning rifles. Then, when the gun murders do not go down, you will say we need to ban all handguns. NRA and its members know exactly what you want in the end. You want to ban and confiscate ALL firearms.

[outlaw]

I'm just surprised it took almost an hour or two for the anti-gun folks to start the blame shifting.
On our local Fox station yesterday someone went on about the shooter being on the FBI's "Watch List" twice and stated he wasn't on it at this time. Then they went to a clip of Marco Rubio and the first question they asked was "How do you feel when someone that was on the watch list could so easily buy guns?"
When the dust settles this will be "proof" that America needs to address it's anti-gay sentiment and it's pro-gun mentality. Oh yeah, the problem is "rhetoric from the presidential campaign." It's everything but what it really is.

Uh. Latest news is the shooter was gay. Looking more like he just started shooting up his cohorts like the San Bernardino couple. So maybe no hate crime.

[Cathy H]

First, automatic weapons are not generally available in the US. To obtain one a very special, very expensive license is required. The weapon itself would probably cost another $20-25K. I know only of one person who owns one. He is a collector of military memorabilia. And because of his past, brilliant military career, I am not losing any sleep over his weapon ownership.

Second, I have a semi-automatic shotgun that I used for skeet & trap shooting. I doubt any LEO would consider me a major threat for owning it.

More of the information in the post is also challengeable, but all I'm going to do is make that notation.

I will also note that I feel safer in TV knowing that there are so many former LEOs and military who carry all the time.though not "automatic" the ar 15 rifle used in Orlando Sunday fires rapidly one shot at a time with a 30 bullet attachment. very murderous and should not be for sale to anyone.

[outlaw]

though not "automatic" the ar 15 rifle used in Orlando Sunday fires rapidly one shot at a time with a 30 bullet attachment. very murderous and should not be for sale to anyone.

You just described virtually every modern rifle and handgun. The only difference is the number rounds. I have a pistol that can hold 30 rounds. I know of shooters that can pull the trigger and fire rounds as fast or faster than a person can fire a fully automatic weapon/machine gun. Your criteria would essentially ban 95% of all firearms in the US.

[dbussone]

though not "automatic" the ar 15 rifle used in Orlando Sunday fires rapidly one shot at a time with a 30 bullet attachment. very murderous and should not be for sale to anyone.



Well, we shall agree to disagree. It is your constitutional right not to own one. It is my constitutional right to purchase one if I wish, assuming I qualify to do so. And I do.



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[dbussone]

You just described virtually every modern rifle and handgun. The only difference is the number rounds. I have a pistol that can hold 30 rounds. I know of shooters that can pull the trigger and fire rounds as fast or faster than a person can fire a fully automatic weapon/machine gun. Your criteria would essentially ban 95% of all firearms in the US.



And their goal is to ban 100%. Start with the ones that they view as creating mayhem (never mind the real reason behind an incident) and grab the others step by step. This has happened many times throughout history, and many still refuse to understand the consequences.

Good post, outlaw. I pray nothing ever happens here. But I'll also note several of my friends without firearms are currently re-evaluating their position.

[Taltarzac725]

How though realistically would you ban all guns in the US as well as gradually confiscate them? We would need a police state for that to happen. And probably the National Guard being activated in every state and the military operating on US soil as a political operative.

That could happen but would really need a group of very unique circumstances like something out of a horror movie.

[dbussone]

By the way, the NYTimes has an editorial today proposing that a "secret court" be created to determine whether an individual's right to own a gun can be removed. Here we go - another constitutional right - the right to due process - proposed to be taken away, in secret no less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/opinion/time-for-a-no-buy-list-on-guns.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

[dbussone]

How though realistically would you ban all guns in the US as well as gradually confiscate them? We would need a police state for that to happen. And probably the National Guard being activated in every state and the military operating on US soil as a political operative.

That could happen but would really need a group of very unique circumstances like something out of a horror movie.



Well, that's what Hitler successfully did, and look what happened.


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[Taltarzac725]

Well, that's what Hitler successfully did, and look what happened.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

For a Hitler like politician to become President, well...

...the Constitution would have to be completely forgotten.

[dbussone]

For a Hitler like politician to become President, well...



...the Constitution would have to be completely forgotten.



Tal - I agree. Unfortunately it might not be as difficult to make that happen as we might think. I believe they are being whittled away bit by bit already. Remember the state of emergency you mentioned a little earlier?

[ColdNoMore]

Well, that's what Hitler successfully did, and look what happened.


Godwin's Law proved again.

Urban Dictionary: Godwin's Law (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godwin%27s%20Law)


A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis.

When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument.

[graciegirl]

///

[dbussone]

Godwin's Law proved again.



Urban Dictionary: Godwin's Law (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Godwin%27s%20Law)



If it is a true argument, it is true.

Godwin/coldnomore not withstanding. If I were you I would really study the American Revolutionary War and what Britain tried to do to suppress our ability to defend ourselves. Then read the background behind the 2nd Amendment...the real background, not the revisionist history.

I'm also from a very "cold place up north" and have numerous relatives who fought in the ARW. I think your argument is specious.

And then read how the Nazi's took weapons away from Germans. You might see some similarities.

One of many sources:
Registration: The Nazi Paradigm - by Stephen P. Halbrook (http://stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html)

[Barefoot]

If there were more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been less carnage
And if there had been more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been MORE carnage.
I guess we'll never know.

[graciegirl]

If it is a true argument, it is true.

Godwin/coldnomore not withstanding. If I were you I would really study the American Revolutionary War and what Britain tried to do to suppress our ability to defend ourselves. Then read the background behind the 2nd Amendment...the real background, not the revisionist history.

I'm also from a very "cold place up north" and have numerous relatives who fought in the ARW. I think your argument is specious.

And then read how the Nazi's took weapons away from Germans. You might see some similarities.

One of many sources:
Registration: The Nazi Paradigm - by Stephen P. Halbrook (http://stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html)
I understand your feelings and your logic completely as do most people who live here in The Villages.

[ColdNoMore]

\\\

[graciegirl]

There are few that are not anguished about this horrible murder of 49 people and the terrible physical and mental pain inflicted on 53 others. The horrible pain suffered now by the people who know them and loved them and treasured them. The hole left in this world now that we have been robbed of their talents and their dreams.

We want to fix this horrible wrong, but for most of us our lives have been following the rules, never thinking to harm anyone physically in any way, no matter how angry we have felt. The Villages is full of people who have not ever hurt anyone and most who have not broken any laws. The group of us who live here are mostly people who have tried to bring up our children with the same views and to the best of our efforts treat our neighbors as ourselves.

We are outraged by this horrible event and are forever changed by it and we are suffering grief. Anger is part of it. We must continue to be activists in the best way possible, by being good people as most of us are.

This country will continue to be caring and welcoming and encouraging to all who work, are responsible and caring of those who cannot care for themselves. We cannot legislate morality or command good. We must be examples good enough for others to want to emulate. And thus teach.

[outlaw]

And if there had been more armed citizens inside the club, there might have been MORE carnage.
I guess we'll never know.

We do know, based on 11 of the last 12 massacres, that gun free zones don't seem to work as advertised. Maybe we could try the "armed citizen" concept and see if the body count is less than what we have, so far, experienced.

[Taltarzac725]

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

A little history of these massacres.

We should be doing anything possible to prevent future groups of survivors/victims from being created.

[outlaw]

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

A little history of these massacres.

We should be doing anything possible to prevent future groups of survivors/victims from being created.

Secure our borders - step 1.
Stop or greatly curtail immigration - step 2.
Ban gun free zones - step 3.
Infiltrate and monitor mosques that are known or suspected to be preaching radical anti western ideas - step 4.
Detain/imprison/deport any non-us citizen that overstays their visa, commits a felony, or speaks/writes against western values or sympathizes with people/organizations on the government terrorist list -step 5.

That would be a good start.

[Sandtrap328]

The banning of gun free zones is just not a good idea!

Guns in nightclubs and bars filled with young people drinking? No way that could go wrong!

Guns at college and professional sporting events like football games, baseball games, and basketball games? No way that could go wrong!

[Polar Bear]

The banning of gun free zones is just not a good idea!

Guns in nightclubs and bars filled with young people drinking? No way that could go wrong!

Guns at college and professional sporting events like football games, baseball games, and basketball games? No way that could go wrong!
Sometimes this ST guy says some pretty wise things. (Sometimes!! :smiley: )

[Sandtrap328]

Sometimes this ST guy says some pretty wise things. (Sometimes!! :smiley: )

But only if he could learn to use a driver instead of his 3 iron?

[Polar Bear]

But only if he could learn to use a driver instead of his 3 iron?
His wisdom shows again! :clap2:

[outlaw]

The banning of gun free zones is just not a good idea!

Guns in nightclubs and bars filled with young people drinking? No way that could go wrong!

Guns at college and professional sporting events like football games, baseball games, and basketball games? No way that could go wrong!

Yeah, that's probably a bad mix. But keep in mind, it is ILLEGAL to handle/possess a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.

[Sandtrap328]

Yeah, that's probably a bad mix. But keep in mind, it is ILLEGAL to handle/possess a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.

So, you have the young people/college kids in a nightclub drinking and dancing with loaded handguns on their person. Since, it is ILLEGAL to handle or posess a gun while under the influence, is it your idea to have them self-identify at the time they feel tipsy and turn in the gun to a gun check?

Basically, you can see how the making bars and clubs "gun friendly" places just would not work, can't you?

[Cathy H]

I got it! I pot it! guns for everyone over age of six. but ban sale of all bullets.

[wendyquat]

Does anyone know how the shooter managed to get inside the club with the guns and what would have to be several hundred rounds of ammo? I would not think he would have had on an overcoat in this heat!

[Sandtrap328]

Does anyone know how the shooter managed to get inside the club with the guns and what would have to be several hundred rounds of ammo? I would not think he would have had on an overcoat in this heat!

From what I recall hearing on news reports, it was close to their closing time and he shot the off-duty policeman who was the security guard outside and walked in to begin shooting.

[outlaw]

So, you have the young people/college kids in a nightclub drinking and dancing with loaded handguns on their person. Since, it is ILLEGAL to handle or posess a gun while under the influence, is it your idea to have them self-identify at the time they feel tipsy and turn in the gun to a gun check?

Basically, you can see how the making bars and clubs "gun friendly" places just would not work, can't you?

You do understand that gun free zones only work for law abiding citizens don't you? Is it not equivalent to suggest that just because it is illegal to possess a gun in a bar, people with ill intent will? Is it your idea to have them self identify at the time they enter the gun free zone?

[Polar Bear]

You do understand that gun free zones only work for law abiding citizens don't you? Is it not equivalent to suggest that just because it is illegal to possess a gun in a bar, people with ill intent will? Is it your idea to have them self identify at the time they enter the gun free zone?

Doesn't change ST's point. He's still correct.

[Gerald]

the news coverage of this horrible event was very well done. Very little time spent on the killer and lots of time reporting about the people being effected. There are many out there who would do the same thing just because some people do not follow their rules. In our world there should be room for everyone. to live peacefully and not in fear.

[Taltarzac725]

the news coverage of this horrible event was very well done. Very little time spent on the killer and lots of time reporting about the people being effected. There are many out there who would do the same thing just because some people do not follow their rules. In our world there should be room for everyone. to live peacefully and not in fear.

The local stations did a very good job from what I watched. I could only watch for so much of this and then my heart could not take any more. It is nice when you can just change the channel but now all these survivors/victims of the Orlando shooting will never be able to quite do that as the memories will always be there.

[Schaumburger]

This morning at my church in northwest suburban Chicago, our pastor read the names and ages of the 49 people whose lives were taken at the Pulse nightclub one week ago. It took several minutes for Fr. Manny to read the names and ages of those 49 souls taken from this world far too soon. It was a very sobering time during the service.

And during the Prayers of the People, one of the petitions we offered to God this morning was:

Merciful God, bind up the wounds of all who suffer from gun violence, those maimed and disfigured, those left alone and grieving, and those who struggle to get through one more day. Bless them with your presence and help them find hope. For all who lives are forever marked by the scourge of gun violence, Loving God, make us instruments of your peace.

[Taltarzac725]

This morning at my church in northwest suburban Chicago, our pastor read the names and ages of the 49 people whose lives were taken at the Pulse nightclub one week ago. It took several minutes for Fr. Manny to read the names and ages of those 49 souls taken from this world far too soon. It was a very sobering time during the service.

And during the Prayers of the People, one of the petitions we offered to God this morning was:

Merciful God, bind up the wounds of all who suffer from gun violence, those maimed and disfigured, those left alone and grieving, and those who struggle to get through one more day. Bless them with your presence and help them find hope. For all who lives are forever marked by the scourge of gun violence, Loving God, make us instruments of your peace.

That's a really nice prayer. Thanks for sharing it.

[Schaumburger]

That's a really nice prayer. Thanks for sharing it.

You're quite welcome. It is weeks like this past one that I am so glad I belong to a strong faith community.

[Barefoot]

Merciful God, bind up the wounds of all who suffer from gun violence, those maimed and disfigured, those left alone and grieving, and those who struggle to get through one more day. Bless them with your presence and help them find hope. For all who lives are forever marked by the scourge of gun violence, Loving God, make us instruments of your peace.
Lovely prayer, thanks.